/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6931625
Meanwhile we already ported it to Speccy LMAO

What's an amiga?

>>6931638
A miserable little pile of custom ASICs.

>yeah if I get this 68060 board that costs more than the computer itself, I can run Doom at 8 fps. Amigabros 1, Carmhack 0 XD

Remember when they did this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWnPU8fZZjE

What Amiga market was even left in 1994 anyway?

>>6931669
still a lot of them in Europe but even here everyone knew PCs were taking over. i don't get the autism either. the Amiga was cutting edge in the late 80s and we had some good times for a few years but it's just like your favorite rock band. after a few years of fun it was over and everyone moved on except a few retards.

>>6931637
shitposting aside how come they could do this but not make an amiga port that doesn't rely on fancy accelerator cards?
i mean you can emulate a spectrum on an amiga, so it would stand to reason that if it can emulate the spectrum version it can run a native port

>>6931638
That's the computer mommies and daddies play.

>>6931694
Its lacking one thing that made it possible on Speccy: SOUL

>>6931668
Requires an expensive accelerator board from long after the fact running at well over triple the Amiga 1200's original clock speed, and it still runs like shit. Just proves >>6931658's point.

>>6931694
The AGA Amiga had planar graphics, that was the big issue. PCs in VGA mode have linear graphics. One byte=one pixel. Also the Amiga can only run as fast as the custom chipset lets it run while on a PC you can just upgrade to a faster CPU.

>>6931625
Why can it run on SNES but not Amiga?

>>6931801
That used an add-on chip, the superFX 2.

>>6931689
>and we had some good times for a few years but it's just like your favorite rock band
And then Amigafags and Doom are like hair metal guys still complaining about Nirvana after 30 years.

>>6931625
In the end both have died a silent death.

>>6931804
And it still sucked anyway.

>>6931625
>the effect on the majority of the Amiga base
Oh right I forgot about all the Britpoors still using A500s with no hard disk in 1994.

It was very slow on a 25MHz 68040 Quadra 605. You couldn't play it full screen.

Motorola lost the race to keep up with the x86 which was having immense amounts of R&D funds dumped into it.

Found it playing on 25MHz 68040 Quadra 700. He even has it running on a 68030, but its a slideshow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7A8VYw_ncM

>>6931964
And the Mac is just frame buffer graphics it's also not bottlenecked by custom ASICs like the Amiga is.

>>6931625
I hope that now that the source code for the SNES port was released, someone converts it to Amiga.

>>6931625
There weren't any 68060 accelerators out yet when he wrote this.

>>6931625
turns out john was wrong, knew a minimal amount about what the amiga was capable of and knew nothing about m68k assembler. the game would have needed to be completely reprogrammed in m68k assembler so he couldn't just port his shitty C code easily. also: doom ripoffs appeared for '030 or greater Amiga machines around that time. speed wasn't impressive but they worked well enough. another problem was that back then in 1994 the amiga was a dying platform and the game wouldn't have sold well.
>remember
your memory seems to be complete fantasy and make believe. it's hilarious.

>>6931941
> be american
> can't afford pc
> can't afford amiga
> still using a NES in 1996
this is the reality of things, my obese ameritarded friend.

>>6932029
>another problem was that back then in 1994 the amiga was a dying platform and the game wouldn't have sold well
>post was written five months after Commodore filed for bankruptcy
You think? And even if it hadn't been, the Amiga wasn't relevant in North America by that point so that alone was a major market they wouldn't get.

>>6932037
> takes another anon's post
> just rewords it slightly
> ya think?
american retardation at its finest. USA USA USA #1

And there's the other issue as mentioned that AGA machines were a quite small fraction of the user base most of which was using OCS/ECS machines so you couldn't sell Doom to about 75% of Amiga users.

>>6931804
it also used mode7, which was the only way the SNES could produce chunky pixels and also allowed for scaling down the resolution easily.

>>6932106
It also doesn't draw the floors or ceilings, which helps a lot.

>>6931694
i wonder if you could do something like SNES doom on it? the SNES uses planar graphics too as far as I know.

>>6932127
all SNES graphics are planar EXCEPT for mode7, which is what doom used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXo6BtmuZkc

Acorn does what Commodon't

>>6931625
>Remember when a guy who didn't know how to program for the Amiga said he couldn't program Doom for the Amiga because he didn't know how to program for the Amiga

>>6932032
this is an exaggeration, but desu i do think that there's something to the idea that America's less-mentioned class system helps hide which systems most people grew up with and how many games they had access to.
In Britain you know the guy with the RP accent and the private school education with a garden shed built out of Neo Geo games isn't representative of the average lower-middle-class microcomputer owner, but in America it's much harder to distinguish between the Californian with a SNES + Genesis and a bunch of owned games for both and the Virginian with a SNES getting most games on rental. They just blur together.

>>6932168
Then show Doom running on an Amiga without an absurd accelerator card that didn't exist in 1994.

>>6932168
Neither does anyone else, evidently, since no one else has managed decent port of Doom to an unaccelerated Amiga.

>>6932029
The game has been open sourced so Amiga or Mac pros could reprogram it in 68k assembly if they wanted to. I would have been in tears hearing it as a kid, but the 386 and 486 were simply faster than the 68030 and 68040. Sometimes you have to grow up and admit when you're wrong.

>>6932179
weren't intel processors actually better at crunching numbers than the 68000, too?

>>6932179
which was the last 68k processor to be better than intel, the 020? I know the original 68k notoriously shits all over the 8086.

As we tried to explain, the x86 was beating the 680x0 in performance by the mid-90s and the Amiga's planar graphics and custom chips were a bottleneck that slowed everything down. Putting accelerator boards in there only help to a limited extent since the custom chips control the speed of the system bus not the CPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixQE496Pcn8

>>6932196
The 68k is a slightly newer chip though. It came out in 1980 while the 8086 was out since 78.

>>6931625
Never saw the Amiga as gaming machine and I sure as hell never played games on my accelerated A4000

>>6932181
>>6932196
The 68000 had an advantage at being 32-bit internally even though it was a 16-bit processor.

>>6932218
The 8086 could have been better than it was if Intel didn't care so much about 8080 compatibility. Motorola for contrast didn't bother with trying to make the 68k backward compatible with the 6800.

>>6932230
There were perfectly sound reasons for doing so. The 8080 had a lot of software while the 6800 didn't. In fact one of the early advantages the IBM PC had was that 8080/Z80 application software could be easily converted for it. So even though the 8086 was gimped by this somewhat, it was a necessary compromise and the x86 wouldn't have been so successful without it. In the long run Intel made the smart choice.

>>6932218
true and it has like twice as many transistors or something like that, but you'd think they could keep pace since they were starting with a better architecture. I guess that isn't really how it works since successive x86 gens didn't always have 100% compatibility (just 99%) so they had the opportunity to revamp quite a lot of things about it. and raw performance ultimately trumps how gnarly it is to write assembly code for.

>>6932230
68k was heavily based on minicomputers like the PDP-11, 8086 was more an extension of 70s microcomputers.

>>6931637
"Ported" to spectrum.

>>6932257
The sheer amount of PC compatible sales meant that there were unholy amounts of money to invest in x86 R&D. Motorola didn't have nearly as big of a market for the 68k and finally just didn't have the funds to match the x86 arms race that was going on during the 90s.

>>6932272
Well, that and Motorola was all-in on PowerPC by then anyway.

>>6932248
DOS itself was originally a quick-and-dirty CP/M clone called QDOS

>>6931964
>>6931978
Another issue not yet mentioned with Macs is that back in those days the Mac OS had concurrent multitasking (in fact all Mac OSes until OS X did) which means no matter what you do, all active processes are going to take a set portion of CPU time. Doom on the PC ran in DOS and could get the CPU entirely to itself.

The Amiga OS had preemptive multitasking but then it had all the other bottlenecks mentioned in here.

>>6932272
The key here is that IBM allowed clones to be made. Had Commodore, Apple, Atari, and Sharp all worked together, perhaps they wouldn't have been killed by the IBM compatible.

>>6932342
It's more like they couldn't stop the clones from being made. That's the danger of using all off-the-shelf parts and a third-party operating system.

>>6932342
>allowed
lolno >>6932363 is right

>>6932342
>Commodore, Apple, Atari killed by the IBM compatible
>listing a $2T company alongside horribly-run dinosaurs that self-destructed
apple had a pretty close call but there's a reason they survived and the others didn't

>>6932461
>apple had a pretty close call but there's a reason they survived and the others didn't
Bill Gates cut them a check because he didn't want Apple to go under and aggravate the problems Microsoft already had with monopoly accusations.

>>6932330
Sort of. Cooperative multitasking means that a process has total control of the system until it voluntarily gives up control to other processes, perhaps while it's waiting for an external resource to be ready. It's not that each process is guaranteed a set amount of time in a period, it's that a process that doesn't give up control will hang the entire system. Windows mitigated this by having the call to get window messages also surrender control. Classic Mac OS similarly had system calls surrender control. So, Doom could have used 100% of the CPU for as long as it wanted, right up until it asked the OS for anything, and everything else would be hung while it ran.

yeah but in the end history will record that a lot more fun and great memories came from Commodore and Atari's stuff than Crapple's. what memory do you attach to them except playing Math Munchers at school? and absolutely no demoscene.

>>6932342
profits would've been split between the OS developer and the chip manufacturer, not the clone manufacturers. the last chance for anything non-IBM-compatible to dominate the consumer market came with the acorn archimedes and its custom RISC processor. it had stupidly high performance for the time at a price point comfortably between an amiga and a mac or PC, and the cost/performance advantage could've wedged it into the market if there had been a critical mass of support behind it instead of one tiny company. and acorn would've done fine amidst a clone ecosystem since as the chip manufacturer they make money regardless.

the best thing atari or commodore could've done in the late 80s would've been to dead-end their 16-bit machines and work with acorn, handling the OS side of the equation and establishing themselves as the microsoft of the ARM ecosystem.

>>6931638
a video toaster

>>6932476
right, but why did they survive to that point in the first place, and why did they bounce back so spectacularly afterward? apple had completely different corporate DNA than atari or commodore did, being an actually innovative and technical company that aimed to create markets instead of just selling to them.

>>6931638
Furfag computer

>>6932517
You'd have to assume first and foremost that either Commodore or Atari was run like a proper IT company instead of like an Eastern European Mafia syndicate.

Neither had proper tech support for their products and both aimed primarily at selling computers in toy and department stores. This harmed their image and caused their computers to be perceived as toys.

>>6932551
>corporate DNA
Imagine being so fucking brainwashed that you start to say shit like this

>>6932032
Back to the speccy containment thread you go

>>6932048
Obsessed

>>6932171
Brits just go to boarding schools to get groomed and raped

>>6932617
>go to boarding schools
Only upper class/elites. Working class Brits would never have had a speccy. So you can be 99% certain bongposters are middle class or above (thats posh to you) or had access to an institution through family or work.

>>6932048
>>6932032
Why does yurope have so many unmedicated schizos? I thought you guys had free healthcare.

>>6932650
Doesn't include mental.

>>6932650
>he doesn't realize he's mostly being baited by his fellow Americans

>>6932650
>free healthcare
Works just like communism did so we all pray to not ever get sick instead.

>>6932595
what had apple been doing for the past decade in the early 90s? what had atari and commodore been doing? commodore didn't even make the amiga themselves, they bought it off the nerds who did.

apple had teams of people who could do actual things, which is why they had plans more involved than "make a computer that plays games". which is why they could actually sell newer models of macintosh each year instead of being mired at the 1985 spec like amiga and ST were.

>>6932179
But the 030 and 040 don't count. It has to run as well on a 1985 Amiga as it does on a 1985 486 machine.

>>6932648
>working class people would never have a gutted home computer device designed to be as cheap as possible
Hmmm

>>6932258
Yes thats what I said cunt, its been ported with all levels and enemies intact to the Spectrum

>>6932731
Apple almost died because they overextended themselves in the 90s and stuck their hands in too many pies such as gaming and the workstation market. But at least they were trying new things instead of trying to milk 6-7-8 year old hardware for as long as they could.

>>6932781
>Exceptions to the rule
The government even tested schemes to give away free computers in the 2000s because PC ownership was so uncommon and people were only getting exposure to computers for brief periods in institutions.

>>6932179
>but the 386 and 486 were simply faster than the 68030 and 68040
simply faster! so that's why SGI used m68k chips in their 3d workstations? or used in thousands of arcade titles and simulators? amazing. it was the amiga's video chip limitations and the way it handled bitplanes that was the major setback. the m68k CPUs were more than capable.

Doom was ported to the Amiga in 1998, so they only had to go without it for around four years. It took longer to port Persona 4.

>>6931637
Is that music actually made with Spectrum sound?

>>6931652
But enough talk, have at you!

>>6932839
>The government
That's what They want you to think

>>6931625
Who gives a shit at this point

>>6932731
>they had plans more involved than "make a computer that plays games".
The hardware prowess didn't really matter when it came to games. Apple II had lots of games because it was relatively cheap and lot of americunts bought it. Nintendo is massively popular till this day even though all their consoles were underpowered compared to the competition.

>>6931964
Doom runs real slow on a 386 but a 486 33 is a fair bit faster than the video. Is 386 is like 68040

>>6931625
If amiga had their proper new system that was cancelled it would have ran it

>>6932342
They got greedy and wanted all the market to themselves, Apple even stuggled

>>6931941
Be American in 1990 and buy $5000 386 dx33, doom is a slideshow

>>6931625
>Well after a quarter century of effort they have yet to disprove him.
I'm pretty sure I an Amiga port while browsing through various BBS's last week.

carmack is the hack that crippled the saturn port of doom cause it looked better than the original

>>6931625
How far would you have to downgrade doom to get it onto an amiga? No textures or flats? Lighting? Reduce colors?

>>6934813
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/c/KKAltair/videos

>>6932172
>>6932176
>b-b-but me watch youtube

>>6935886
That jailbar style dithering looks so ugly.

>>6934601
No, the ZX Spectrum programmer crippled it with his incompetence. There's no reason the Saturn shouldn't be able to handle Doom's software renderer. The Jaguar handles it at 20fps. The 32X handles it at 20fps on the same dual SH-2 setup, but clocked slower than the Saturn. And finally, Hexen on the Saturn handles it at 20-30fps.

All three of those examples run better than Saturn Doom and are just pure software rendering of the Doom Engine. There's no reason the Saturn couldn't at least match the performance of the Jaguar and 32X versions while doing software rendering.

>>6932143
Commokaze the market?

>>6932783
Yeah, but Jobs fucked up by ending Apple's program to give discounted computers to school districts. People will stick with what they know growing up, sure they may have taken a loss on education sales, but a generation of children would have been accustomed to Apple software instead of Windows which filled the void.

>Ron Gilbert, who was not involved in the project, was surprised at the team's ability to fit Maniac Mansion into the NES's 40k ROM space, recalling the difficulty he had fitting it in the C64's 64k memory space--he ultimately used just about every last byte of RAM in the computer and needed still more so a bit of the 1541 drive's RAM was also used.[40]

>>6931625
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeaNb5QzoU0&list=PL-3inz2kpSUPGYZwBUAbJjaj-klo4nErb
/thread

>>6931668
uh huh, and a SNES can play Crysis because I can shove a PC into the cartridge and then use the SNES as a video passthrough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afyCn6m2Qbc

>>6931637

>>6937568
the project was released early, with a couple more months it could probably have been improved. comparing to the other versions.. well the jaguar version was done by carmack himself, and the 32x has direct framebuffer access unlike the saturn (and was also done by carmack)

>>6937990
lol, even an 060 can't match a 486 PC. Why do Amigafags even bother?

>>6938023
i dunno i just searched "amiga doom" and posted the first thing i found lol

>>6938023
486s didn't run doom that well desu, this looks smoother than some 486 setups back in the day, but the cpu is much faster

>>6931625
Imagine being so fucking poor you play this instead of original doom holy shit that is so sad.

>>6931668
>expansion cards
Doesn't count. Quake I and II and Shogo eventually came out for Amiga for those, that doesn't say anything about the base computer.