/vr/ - Retro Games

the city looks so peaceful..
>What FM are you playing?
just waiting for the black parade, I think the last fm I played was the accountant in TDM

has there been a YouTube upload of the keeper library theme from thief 1?

>>6880929
this theme
https://youtu.be/QL_Le3qZX0k?t=454

When will /vr/'s Kojimacucks take the Thiefpill?

>>6880929
I don't think so, but I like listening to this one though it's from TDS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFSFraxEZjw

What are some FMs you guys think are underrated?
With autumn arriving, I find myself in the mood to play Saints and Thieves, a curiously overlooked gem pitting Garrett against the City Watch and a gang of smugglers operating in a warehouse compound. It's a very good Thief 2-like mission with a really dour atmosphere and muted color palette. Well worth a playthrough.

>>6880957
They have stealth in the description that means they play the same!

>>6880957
stop embarrassing thief fans

Anyone else notice how the Dark Mod's movement feels way off? It's like unreal/unty games but nowhere near as bad.

>>6880957
Why can't we be like the chad doom/build faggots and not have these retarded arguments.

It took me years to realize the stacks of coins weren't something like tin cans

>>6882783
Because beepzorz can't stop pretending to be a thief fan.

Ive finished Thief Gold on expert a year ago and I was blown away by how good this game still is. Currently Im going through Thief 2 and it's as good as Dark Project but levels feel sometimes too big to the point of tedium. I still love the game tho and want to try making some FMs. Is there a simple to use editor like TrenchBroom for Quake? Or do I have to prepare for studying some windows 98 looking app for days to even be able to build a simple room with guards?

>>6880806
Zoomers will NEVER understand this game NEVER EVER

>>6884028
>Want to talk about thicc imp girls
>Thread derailed by asshurt /v/ermin
>Comfy thief thread gets bumped
>It's the asshurt /v/ermin.

>>6884035
what? I’m on your side, I love this game haha bonk!

>>6884027
No, DromEd is the only available editor. It's old and weird but isn't hard to get the hang of, just prepare to be baffled by the interface and controls for a little while especially if you're used to slick editors like Trenchbroom.
This tutorial is great and should get you started, it covers all the basic things one needs to know: https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-mission-for-thief-2/

There is also a discord server for DromEd whose link can be found in the Editor's Guild forum on TTLG.

>>6884365
Thanks anon

Playing Through Thief 2 for the first time. No other stealth games hit the same, I stopped playing Dishonored for this.

>>6885186
After playing Thief it is impossible to play Dishonored or any other modern stealth game, they are a hand-holding sad joke interactive movie that only make you feel like a superman invincible ninja assassin, it fucking sucks.

I'd just rather play mods instead, Thief is the holy grail of stealth games.

>>6885186
I love Dishonored and especially its sequel, but when it comes to pure stealth systems with open-ended level design, nothing comes close to Thief 1 and 2.

>>6885186
>>6885220
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU
Dishonored sucks.

>>6885227
No it doesn't, but this isn't a thread about Dishonored since it's not retro.

>>6885238
It does. Perhaps watch the video and you will understand. See the light anon, stop playing garbage.

>>6885243
I've already watched the video plenty of times. It's a great video. It applies to Thi4f and a lot of AAA games. Most of it doesn't apply to Dishonored.

>>6885281
It has a specific section comparing it with Dishonored explaining how shitty it is in the combat system, health and stealth system, which is the most important part of the game obviously.
Most of the things do apply to it, it has the same flawed standards than most current games.

>>6885305
Look, I really don't fucking care either way. This isn't a Dishonored thread. If you want to bitch about it, go back to /v/.

>>6885219
Yeah, I feel the same way about thief as I do about Deus Ex. I played the Original for the first time in 2015 and I've never been able to go back to the new ones, developers used to have so much of a better grasp on how to design levels it's astonishing even a game like Human Revolution ends up becoming a series of hallways with some vents added

>>6885375
This guy gets it. HR is so bad, that even Invisible War with all its flaws and being a downgrade from DX1, it is still a much more organic and better game than HR and all that came after.
>>6885317
>I really don't fucking care either way
At least you are being honest now.

>>6885482
go back beepzorz

>I don’t think anything “went wrong” with Invisible War or Epic Mickey 2. They were attempts to address specific concerns or express specific creative desires and were the best games they could be given limitations of time and budget. I’ll always be proud of the creative and technical risks those teams took, how hard they worked and how committed they were to each other and to the games.

There you have it folks, Deus Ex 2 was a good game.

You need to give me the absolute BEST Dark Mod FM right now. Bonus points if its spooky but actually good.

>>6885482
IW is indefensible. Go away troll. Why is it that these threads always attract mongoloids who want to debate Dishonored or MGS against Thief.

>>6885546
Penny Dreadful 2: All The Way Up

>>6885550
>IW is indefensible.
You are not being objective at all.
But lets say IW is horrible (in many ways it was, compared to DX1), the later DX games are much worse, that is the point, if you don't see that you are blind as a bat.

>>6885550
One redditor WRPG fag.

>>6885526
>Deus Ex 2 was a good game.
It was fun. Just don't play it right after DX1, I did and thought it sucked at first, but after a while getting used to it I could not stop.

It has annoying loading screens and HUD which you can blame fucking consoles for.
Level design was good, ability upgrades were limited and meaningful, it wasn't too linear, multiple ways to end each mission, meaningful consequences to your actions regarding story telling and interaction with the different factions.

The thing is the game was "bad" for its time, but compared to 90% of what belongs in fucking /v/, is gold.

>>6885546
Based Xavier poster

I was trying to get into Tomb Raider this week, so I got Legends but the more I played it the more I wanted to boot up Thief and go into the Bonehoard or Lost City again. Not even Lara's perfect body could keep me interested.

>>6885698
No matter what some people will tell you, Thief's controls are a real joy and smooth as hell. Garrett controls like a charm.

>>6885556
should I play the whole campaign or just part 2? Part 1 is like 30mb so it seems short.

I tried asking in /doom/ but I don't think anyone is interested. Any anons here want to do a Thief mission jam sometime soon? I'm willing to lead it and help people learn. I just want more missions to play...

>>6886497
You should play the whole campaign, they're really good missions.

>>6887109
Hmm, the two contests back to back have created some pretty intense contest fatigue, and the Thief community doesn't do jams per se. Might be cool but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get anyone to participate.

>>6887163
Yes, they're not necessarily called jams but I don't know what else to call it. Not a contest because I don't necessarily want competition, just a bunch of anons coming together and making some missions for the hell of it.

And while there's contest fatigue for some authors, I doubt any of those people who participated besides you of course :~) post in here anyway. Think it's worth a shot asking here if the thread doesn't die like most thief thread do.

>>6887217
I'd throw the idea around on TTLG and the DromEd discord server, see if you can get some people. I guess something with a size restriction could incentivize people to make missions in a short timeframe.

>>6887239
I mainly wanted it to just be limited to /vr/ and let it be a surprise to the ttlg people, like the 2048 units of /vr/ was for doomworld

>>6887249
I'm honestly not sure you'll find many DromEders around here.

>>6887260
... Yes? The point is to get new people interested, much like 2048 units did in doom mapping. I've only managed to get minor interest posting in /doom/ so I'm gauging it in here as well.

>>6887287
I get the point 100%. What I'm trying to say is that the Thief population here is very low and potential mappers are even lower. Add to that DromEd which is an editor that is nowhere near as user friendly as Doombuilder or TrenchBroom and you get almost no one. I get it, I think it's a neat idea, but I don't think it'll work unless you reach out to places where most of the mappers hang out.

>>6880957
MGS's AI wasn't mocked at the time of release.
But the worst thing to happen to thief threads was for you retards to take the MGS bait over and over.
Ignore this shit.

>>6887287
Might be more interesting to take the reigns on a city map, or a mansion or something and try to see if you can get people to design one street, or one wing of the castle, or do a map set on islands, or ... you get what I'm saying. Focus on one map, and go from there.

>>6887729
>>6887729
I think the author of that image was being ironic.

My only complaint about the early metal gears is the enemy vision cones which are a complete joke.

I wonder if the Trickster character is inspired by Carl Jung's essay on the Trickster. It lines up a lot.
https://yale.imodules.com/s/1667/images/gid6/editor_documents/flick_readings/ejung-on_the_psychology_of_the_trickster_figure.pdf?sessionid=743b3a83-a414-4b88-b047-ef3e793b3ebd&cc=1

>>6885186
>>6885219
>>6885220
I have tried playing Dishonored multiple times. Couldn't do it. Just didn't have any fun. I tried embracing the OP powers, playing without the OP powers, non-lethal, lethal, etc. Something feels off. I have a serious hard time playing a lot of stealth games though if the movement isn't 100% on point.

>>6887729
>But the worst thing to happen to thief threads was for you retards to take the MGS bait over and over.
Everyone was calling that guy a faggot for posting that. The only one who took his post seriously was you.

>>6887109
I am struggling with my own FM, so I am not interested in joining a jam at the moment.

>>6888536
>Everyone was calling that guy a faggot for posting that.
They did reply though, meaning they took the bait
Fags like this don't care whom you fling shit at, as long as there is any shitflinging
tl;dr hownew.ru

>>6888732
>You're all faggots for replying to that post
>Replies to the post in question

>>6888536
>Couldn't do it. Just didn't have any fun
This happens when you play a terrible game just because it is regarded as good by the media and normalfags that don't know any better.
They don't enjoy it either, they are like videogame junkies sleep-playing the same mindless shit over and over and will swear it was a "GOTY unique experience".

>>6888774
I genuinely thought I could have fun if I didn't use the OP tranquilizer crossbow and abilities. I was able to have fun with other first person games that had botched stealth like solo'ing maps in payday 2 and farcry 2. Dishonored just felt off. I think it was a mix of the movement and visuals.

played 1.27 with the multiplayer almost flawlessly lads. runs great, although I noticed some enemies run really fast and sometimes our arrows don't always hit - any advice? those are the only things that don't seem to be working properly. real comfy though..

>>6885227
Dishonored is garbage. I agree.

>>6885482
Yes! As bad as IW is, it at least feels like a Deus Ex game. The later sequels are mediocre games with the brand name slapped on it.

Shut up beep.

This is getting tiresome.

When did you realize Beepzorz was right?

I've been playing TDP and TMA and their fan missions for a few years, but until now I never played Gold.
now, I just played through Gold as well, and I thought I'd give my general thoughts on the added content.

1/2
>thieves guild
ugly as fuck architecture, and it feels like it drags on for way too long. lots of furniture is placed in weird places (often floating above the ground)

>wizard tower
ugly in the same way thieves guild was. has some really horrible textures. breaks the art direction of the game. extremely linear. I liked some of the new music though

>opera house
this one is pretty decent. it's huge, and I love the gaudy decorations. that being said, I think the geometries are a bit too rough at times. I'm also not a huge fan of the cave section and the fact that garrett just gets randomly funneled there without planning in advance. maybe the cave section should have been integrated into an earlier mission instead.

as for the changes to the TDP missions:
>lost city
not a huge fan of the mages in the lost city. part of the excitement in the original game was that garrett was the first person to go there in centuries. that is kind of ruined by the presence of the mages.

>the sword
the new areas look pretty ugly. I guess people like them mainly for their novelty value.

>>6882828
>>6885486
>>6889825
>Beepzorz
Good lord. I just looked this up. That story reminds me of a guy who would always derail gamedev threads on another imageboard calling other peoples games shit, yet his game always sounded suspiciously close to Rust which he always proclaimed was the shittiest game imaginable and would reeeee- at the top of his lungs whenever you said that. Turns out he was a redditor who was most active on the Rust subreddit and played Rust religiously.

The biggest faggots are always turn out to be redditors.

>>6889825
>reddit
>being right

>>6889870
2/2
to summarise my thoughts on TG, I feel like it's a worse experience than TDP.
none of the new missions quite fit in among the old ones. they feel more like fan missions than actual official missions.
additionally, I don't feel like the changes to the old missions were improvements.

if anyone here has ONLY played Gold, I recommend you to give TDP a try as well. lots of people prefer TMA because they feel like it's more solid and consistent than the first game, and after playing Gold, I can kind of understand that opinion.
make no mistake: if you haven't played TDP, you haven't seen T1 at its best.

>>6889870
>>6889897
Actually heard this before. They also nerfed the bonehoard because too many people cried about it. Honestly makes me regret getting gold.

>>6889921
Well the changes in the Bonehoard aren't as egregious as in The Lost City. Not much got changed with the exception of a greater selection of textures, a ledge made of wood instead of stone, the removal of a loop back to the main Burrick cave and the inclusion of the Fire Shadow.

I actually quite enjoy the guild.

The Dark Mods lighting is spoiling me but fuck Thief 2 movement is so much better. The dynamic lighting adds to the gameplay.

>>6889964
There was some guy who was working on an open Dark Engine and had implemented full dynamic lighting but it never went anywhere.

>>6889951
The problem with the Guild is that it's extremely linear for the first half, and a lot of shadows are bugged so you aren't hidden when you think you should be. The gem solves this issue but it's really annoying running into a dark corner then realizing you're not actually hidden right as soon as a guard is walking in.

>>6889964
I always found the Dark Mod to be unplayable for the same reason I found Dishonored (even without abilities) unplayable. Slow/Clunky movement and the visuals are not fun to play with. In Dishonored there are so many details you can't interact with that they needed to slap highlights and icons on everything. The Dark Mod has a similar issue but the textures are not easy on the eyes. They have way too much contrast or something and don't really jive together well. It legit makes me feel like my eyes are bleeding.

I thought it was just me being autistc until I listened to artists from Valve talk about this in great detail. Apparently there's a lot of subtle tricks modern game artists do that the dark mod didn't get the memo on.

>>6890036
You can't expect a team of amateur modders to be on the same level as professional game designers with years of experience.

>>6890045
I only brought up Valve to assert it's a real thing I was noticing. It's similar to why I don't use high res HD textures.

>>6890068
I personally don't have a problem with the way TDM looks, however it's a pretty acknlowedged fact that the higher the visual fidelity is, the harder it is to diegetically communicate interactivity in an easy and direct manner. That's why you have white paint on ledges you can grab in painfully linear levels in games such as Uncharted, because the scenery just blends together.

>>6890076
The readability wasn't much of an issue for me. It wasn't as good as Thief but it was nowhere near as bad as Dishonored. It still could be improved easily. One trick Valve did and later Riot did to make stuff more readable is have the background be a lower saturation than the items of interest so they pop out more without looking jarring. Really the problem was just having the graphics not cause eye bleed. If I had to guess it probably was related to texel density and model polycount. There's a lot of textures that look way too high res for the models they're on and the like.

>>6890106
Yeah, texel density is something most people don't take into account. I'm not a religious zealot when it comes to this but I try to enforce it when I can. Also, you're correct about items of interest needing to pop more; Thief does that very elegantly with the gold items. It's yellow? It's probably valuable, and it almost always is. TDS added the loot glint mostly because the loot items are virtually the same as junk items, only with a loot value added to them. If you play without it you won't be able to tell the difference.

Stop masturbating.

>>6889964
I laugh whenever the people in the dark mod discord try to say the movement is so much better than Thief 1/2. Clearly none of them have any idea what they're talking about.

Someone give me the absolute BEST Thief 2 FM and especially if its actually good horror, not just throwing fucking monsters at you in the dark.

>>6890172
Maybe not the best, but if you're looking for horror FMs you could try A Better Tomorrow, Ink & Dust or Eclipsed.

>>6890172
Into the Odd?

>>6890172
Rodamill is pretty spooky too. Sadly there's no sequel.

>>6880957
When Thief gets a good game.

>replaying thief 2
>get to life of the party, one of the best missions
>looks like utter shit, bright as fuck, absolutely disgusting.
>have no memory of it looking this shit
>think its mandela effect
>its actually just fog enabled on that 1 specific level.

Holy fuck, I mean look at this, this is with fog on. With it off its a normal night sky.

>>6891414
It doesn't look like that, though when I googled it there were tons of images of it like that. What gives? Is there some shitty fan mod or something that broke it.

>>6891564
>>6891414
Life of the Part is supposed to take place mid-morning and has different lighting than every other level in the game.
Fog can really break this and make it way brighter than what it's supposed to be.
I wouldn't doubt that more recent fan patches have fixed this.

>>6880806
>enjoy the older System Shock 1, and the newer imsims
>find Thief dull and get boredom filtered a few missions in
What's wrong with me? When does it get good?

>>6891573
>imsims
This is such a retarded term. What does it mean besides there's going to be a keypad with 451 somewhere? Anyways Thief 1 is a grower. It throws so much shit at you at once and is so overwhelming it's hard to notice any of the subtle stuff until you play it a second time. All the glorious areas like Down in the Bonehoard go over your head, because you're still trying to figure out how much you can get away with while also trying to navigate this massively overwhelming labyrinth.
Thief 2 is way closer to a traditional stealth game and is way friendlier to new players, which means when you get to it it, it's pretty smooth all the way through.

>>6890989
There are three

>>6891564
The fog effect isn't a fan mod, it's genuinely how it's supposed to look like and yes it does look like shit, on top of being horriblu broken on unpatched versions. Just turn it off.

>Life of the Part is supposed to take place mid-morning
This is never specified anywhere and the crescent moon is also high in the sky.

>>6891414
I like to keep fog on for Precious Cargo, feels more fitting there with the rain and all.
But LotP yeah, looks way better off

>>6893715

Stop letting Thief threads die.

how the fuck was I supposed to look exactly at this pixel.

>>6894949
There's one that is even more devilish in Assassins.

>>6894949

>>6892628
>The fog effect isn't a fan mod, it's genuinely how it's supposed to look like and yes it does look like shit, on top of being horriblu broken on unpatched versions. Just turn it off.
I'm skeptical. I played the game multiple times with nothing but TFIX/Taffer Patcher without any of the addons. It always looked how I posted it in that first image.

>>6894931
I wish Thief was like doom where it has a basically infinite list of wads, megawads, mods and custom content.

>>6894949
Is that in the first mission?

>Watching replay of LGS devs play SS1 on Twitch
>Dishonored comes up
>One of the devs said "I was kinda jealous of Dishonored. They had that teleport ability. When I saw that I was thinking 'Why didn't we come up with that for Garrett"

>>6895673
>I'm skeptical. I played the game multiple times with nothing but TFIX/Taffer Patcher without any of the addons. It always looked how I posted it in that first image.
That's because you most likely didn't have fog turned on. Fog only affects three missions in the game. The fog in Life of the Party was always like that.

>>6895324
What mission is this?

>>6891414
Yeah it's a known bug. Just turn off the fog.

>>6880806
zoomer here.
I'm trying to make my way through Gold right now.

Even though it's fucking ancient, I love everything about the game except the spiders. they're too scary, I immediately exit the game when I see one of them. wat do

>>6899331
You shoot them with the bow and arrow from 20 miles away and oneshot them. I don't think the game even has that many spiders and you can usually sniper them or they're locked in a cage somewhere.

>>6897031
Seventh Crystal

>>6899372
Oh. Haven't played that one in a very very long time. Wonder if it still holds up.

>>6899837
has some tl;dr readables and some filler, but the mansion's pretty good

>>6880806
This thread is a corpse nowadays. Time to leave the board and go somewhere else with other Thief fans.

>>6900608
I'm not sure why these are so slow lately.
In any case, here's a podcast with Daniel Thron, cutscene artist on Thief 1, 2 and 3 and who also voiced a few characters in the games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOvWYN3AdxE

No one cares about your podcast skacky

>>6900695
I'm not him and it's not even his podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er3WkWVs66A

post best FM

In terms of what?

>>6901240
FTM Life is a must-play. Don't thank me.

>>6901264
Okay post the BEST Thief FM for each category

>Best horror
>Best actual thieving(Thief 2 design philosophy)
>Best outlier(something really unique)

>>6901453
>horror
I found myself liking Lost among the forsaken a lot. one of few decent sealed section FMs, with tons of small mindfucks.
it's made by the Rocksbourg author. I'm not a huge fan of Rocksbourg, but LATF is quite different from that.

>thieving
tough question. mostly because I've played very few FMs that are "pure" thieving and no horror. Blue Star is a very nice little museum heist. it's short and straightforward, but it's also a very pure burglary mission, that's also extremely enjoyable to play.

>outlier
the entirety of JIS' library, and especially Elevator Mission, Hammer & Garrett and The Lost Age.
most of his missions are very well crafted, and have some really beatiful "classic thief" environment. what makes them unique, however, is the strange composition of the levels. you have these beautifully designed rooms and locations, but they are often pieced together in completely nonsensical ways. there's also very little plot exposition. in short, these missions feel cryptic, and there's a very tangible sense of wonder and discovery when you explore them.

>>6901556
thanks man, ill check all those out.

>>6901453
>Best horror
A Better Tomorrow and Ink & Dust

>Best actual thieving(Thief 2 design philosophy)
Hidden Agenda, Heist Society, Feast of Pilgrims

>Best outlier(something really unique)
Fables of the Penitent Thief is dope, highly recommended. Rose Cottage is also very unique and is a horror mission.

>>6900608
>>6900652
Doom thread is also slower than usual. The SS2 thread is active but only because there's a faggot rivalry between SS1 and SS2 going on, with reddit arguments like "People who like the other game are mentally ill"

>played for years savescumming like a bitch if I get seen

>decide to quit this habit
>no more savescumming, if I get seen I play it through
>discover very quickly guards NEVER come out of alert mode and it is very hard to sneak around/blackjack them once they are alerted

fug

>>6902185
On the plus side the maps are so god damn big once you get pass a guard you'll never see him again.

>>6900608
>>6900652
>>6902180

/vr/, /vst/ and /vrpg/ have all been very slow this weekend, meanwhile the shitposting general that is /v/ is on fire

is it just me or did the shitposting on this board get much worse the moment they allowed 6th gen?

>fish out the old usb I had Thief 2 on
>teenage me ruined it with 50 gorillion different texture/model/sound replacements
>don't want to pay for a game with dead devs

I'm shit out of luck aren't I?

>>6894931
>>6890129
kek

>>6902221
Not necessarily. Delete the senpai, obj, snd and mesh folders if you have any and your game should be mostly back to what it was.

>>6902221
you could just pirate the gog version and reinstall it.

>>6902198
>is it just me or did the shitposting on this board get much worse
There's a lot more situations where I genuinely can't tell if the person posting played the game they're criticizing/shilling. It's always the same non-arguments or they are using the same copy-paste criticisms... sometimes against the wrong game. There's also a lot of situations where someone will be autistically shrieking at me before I even said my stance on something, because they assume that if I like the games they don't like I must also hate the game that they do like. Even in situations where it's pretty much confirmed it's a faggot who didn't play any of the games and is just desperate for (you)'s the jannies don't do anything about it. The only post I've seen get deleted is when a tripfaggot went on a huge /pol/ rant about how curvy women were invented by black people.

>>6902317
you nailed it exactly, it's not reasonable pro-con discussion of a game or why they liked/disliked it, it's "x is shit and people who like it are faggots"

>>6902317
>>6902335
>>6902198

I am one of the animals that likes to run rampants spamming soijaks on /v/ when I get bored. The jannies have never once done anything except give me two warnings, and this is after 20+ soijak spams within an hour.

>>6902198
>is it just me or did the shitposting on this board get much worse the moment they allowed 6th gen?
I don't specifically venture outside of Doom and SS2/Thief threads, but the shitposting in the Thief threads at the very least has exploded these last few months.

>>6902526
The Thief threads are too dead for shitposting. Even the dude who's butthurt about the game only posts in the threads once now.

I just finished the Hand of Glory thanks to anon recommendation. A nice and simplistic return-to-form. It's charming when someone's first FM is just a quite decent imitation of a generic OM. Easy to chew. Good hour and a half. Some unnecessary spaces and items, though.

But it got me in the mood for missions with truly impregnable patrols. Or where every guard must do something on a routine, else an alarm is rung. Does that sound familiar to anyone?

>>6902573
I don't think there is quite any mission that fits this criteria, with the possible exception of Mission X I guess. Geller's Pride and Gathering at the Inn also has guards you'd better leave undisturbed.

>>6902606
I was hoping to avoid having to learn dromed but perhaps the time has come then. I'll be seeing you in therapy.

>>6903029
It's not that tough honestly. Just weird at times.

What is it about this game that makes people seethe so hard?

Brother, what is it about man that it seeks to tear down what is made by others?

>>6903908
These people are wretched worshippers of the Trickster.

>>6902606
>Geller's Pride
when I play that FM, I always end up setting off the alarm without understanding why. is it because I blackjack everyone?

>>6904286
"The hammerites have finally installed the alarm system. It's interesting, to say the least. Have to remember to say Jonathan that the guards should start doing the shift changes faster... I have to pull a hammerite from Downtowne to here to shut off the damn alarm! They did a sloppy job regarding that. Also, I raised Helga's salary again. Not by much, of course."

>>6904286
One of the guards must continually prevent it from ringing due to it being sloppily made in-universe.

>it's a Get Stuck On The City Streets Because The Author Didn't Put In A Kill Plane mission

>>6904442
is it one of BBB's missions?

one especially horrible take on this is to be found in the Keeper Investigations campaign, last mission. there you have lower areas that look like they're part of the mission area, but when you go there you get an instant game over. I'm not talking about about streets here, but actual balconies and stuff - places you'd expect to be explorable in a thieves' highway mission.

>>6904470
Shoot, how did you guess?
Yes, A Short Night's Work
I was having a lot of fun too, I love building exploration. I also accidentally sequence broke the entire "get your stuff back" thing and was playing without a blackjack. Makes me want to play more missions without equipment. Maybe sword only for a quick parry and slashing tapestries.

>>6904513
>Shoot, how did you guess?
his most well known missions all feature thieves' highway sections, and IIRC all of them allow you to get stuck on the street level.

>>6884028

>>6904513
Shadow of Doubt on Expert takes away most of your stuff.

I'm replaying Gold right now for the first time in ages and I love that comfy Thief threads are back.

Also fuck the cathedral. And also Return to the Cathedral is so fucking good it's insane.

>>6904837
It's such an iconic location.

>>6904513
bbb missions fucking suck, so if you quit now you're not missing much

>>6906247
kill yourself, augustine and nigel are both kino

they have ugly geometries, but still have top tier exploration, with a great sense of wonder and discovery

>>6906396
No, his missions are tedious slogs -- a trait common among le grand and epic city mishuns -- but at least Skacky or Melan will polish their turds with a layer of atmosphere and actual effort and not just slap basic rooms with no effort in their designs.

City missions in the french style at least have a flow to them that makes their tedious loot collecting not as egregious as bbb's, who just slaps ugly rooms with one entrance/exit only and calls it "exploration". His missions are in fact the embodiment of the worst aspects of the shit genre that is city missions.

Thief looks fucking weird through a PVM. It's like an extremely low resolution picture of the real world. It fucks with your head.

>>6906537
nigel's hidden treasure is barely even a city mission. most of it tales place in caves, mines and the lost city.
imo it's one of the better cave missions for the first game

>>6906537
I was wondering when the "city missions are shit" autist would grace us with his terrible takes again.

>CITY MISHUN

>>6907154
You're forgetting that a good portion of the mission is set in Angelwatch which is quite open-ended.

>>6907154
yeah and you can easily spend an hour and a half to 2 hours in that small section before the actual fucking meat of the mission, that being Angelwatch.

>>6906986
>can't handle someone telling him his favorite generic city missions are shit
>don't worry skacky it's an 11/10 please fuck my ass!!

>>6907287
These brainlets are typical contrarians. Life of the Party is usually hailed as the best mission in Thief 2, it spawns a type of mission that is popular and then these guys appear. A great specimen being the autist above me.

>dude these buildings are so tall lmao
>where's the next window to rope arrow into to collect my 15 gold cup
>oh boy this mission is so much fun i fucking love city missions

>>6907540
Not the designer's fault you're a fucking retard who can't look up or can't jump over a gap.

>>6907540
You're a fucking retard if you think that's all they are. What kind of missions do you like out of curiosity?

>>6907582
Niggers like that just hate what's highly rated/praised and popular at the same time.

>>6907540
>shitting on rope arrows in any capacity

What a shoobie.

>>6906736
That looks surreal, post more.

>>6907567
That's not it you retard. If you took the time to actually read the post you first quoted and the problems I laid out then maybe you'd come to understand why your love of these generic piles of shit are exactly that -- generic piles of shit. But no you'd rather keep sucking the frog squad's cock and begging for more sterile trash every year.

Enjoy a future of where all new missions come with no challenge or substance except isolated islands you can mindless stumble to and from while "adventuring" in an empty and pointless city section for your loot simulator. Fucking retard.

>>6907663
Please tell me exactly where the "frog squad" touched you. You seem to have some unresolved issues.

>>6907663
taffer

>>6907627
A lot of them came out really bad because I had my light on when I was looking for my phone and forgot to turn it off when I took the picture. Right now my PVM isn't setup for PC games, so I wont be able to take more without having a huge hassle. I think I was also ruining it by sending a frequency too high for a brief period on bootup.

>>6907627
>>6909230
Really kicking myself for leaving my light on. Some of the fucked up ones look like they could've been amazing.

This one came out pretty blurry.

I also did one of these comparison pics. Kinda shows how trippy 240p thief looks.

Another blurry one. A lot of the remaining ones are either blurry, aren't in a good location, have the light on or basically are like a mirror with me taking the picture.

>>6909230
>>6909254
Peak atmosphere.

>>6909545
Someone's going to screech at me for saying this, but it's the scanlines. I just tried it out on another CRT at 240p and it doesn't look nearly as atmospheric.

What's the general opinion of T2X here? I'm currently in the middle of playing it, it's pretty good so far.

>>6909645
I really like it too. It has its own set of flaws but as an overall package it's top-tier.

Another screenshot of the PVM. This one is kinda weird because it's an area way brighter than the rest of the game.

Has anybody recreated other levels from stealth games in thief? Something like remaking Metal Gear Solid 1 in dromed? That'd be cool.

I'm not talking about a 1:1 remake with custom textures, I mean thief style all the way. Take for example the nuclear weapons storage facility but instead of nukes, it's shelves full of rum. Stuff like that.

>>6909751
Got a picture of the inside btw. It looks pretty bleh.

>>6909826
>Someone recreates MGS in Thief using Thief characters and assets
Sounds pretty amazing ngl. Should the VA for Garrett try to imitate Snake or Garrett though?

>>6909578
I've seen people claim many times over the years that scanlines enhance the image because your brain fills in the gaps. It's bullshit, but I believe it.

>>6909859
It is different for sure. Thief feels really weird through it. Really hazy and surreal. The 2d textures on walls look much more convincing and less like textures. It's a god damn acid trip on missions like the Sword, which is why most of my pictures are from that mission. It's def not ideal for playing on. Imagine trying to pick out where the loot is when everything is a surreal haze.

What are some FMs that are similar to the sword in design?
> wacky level design
> peak atmosphere
> tell a good story

>>6910191
Ascend the Dim Valley

>>6910191
Memoirs of a Dead God

>>6909645
It's good but it never sat right with me how you smash people over the head with a hammer.

>>6910394
There's a third party patch that replaces it with the blackjack

>>6909826
surprised no ones done this because MGS1 level design is insanely fucking basic. Its glorified packman(but I love it) Honestly, only MGS3/4/GZ are stealth. MGS1/2/PW is like, arcade "stealth"

MGSV is just shit.

>>6910756
>MGSV is just shit.
All my normalfriends keep trying to get me to play it when I tell them I play stealth games. They act like it's the greatest game ever, but I know it was a massive let down for MGS fans. I haven't played all the prior games yet so I keep telling them that to put it off. "You don't need to play the prior games to like it". I am extremely skeptical. I also hate games that don't capture the magic of the series. It's why I haven't even played Thief 3 yet.

>>6909826
Konami remade entire MGS1 in MGS2 engine and it become a breeze.

>>6910805
>I haven't played all the prior games yet so I keep telling them that to put it off
You can just watch a longplay of 3 and 4 to get the full experience.
>It's why I haven't even played Thief 3 yet
Thief 3 is actually decent though. Thief 4 is terrible one.

>>6910805
>YOU DONT NEED TO PLAY ANY

Lol you literally need to play every single MG in existence to even attempt to appreciate V. Get into the series, here how it is as a huge stealth fan.

>MGS1, Absolutely incredible under the context of the year it released, stealth is a joke, its glorified packman, some awful camera placement with some bad controls that play off the camera(its that weird tank control where the camera angle, and where you should go make 0 sense) but even with its janky gameplay, its story(bmovie tier) and atmosphere are top tier.

>MGS2: One of two games id consider a masterpiece given everything it does, the context its built under, its tech, the literal massive improvement over MGS1 gameplay, and an actual post-modern video game and can only work in a video game. Was literally going to be Kojimas final MGS and it was his swan song.

>MGS3: A direct apology to fans from MGS2 because they cant into something deep, instead MGS3 is a shockly B-Movie except its literally a 10/10 in that regard. This is when the series becomes stealth for the first time. I dont think any game has put a smile on me from start to finish like MGS3 is. Every character, moment, cutscene, everything is fucking enjoyable. This is usually regarded the best.

>MGS4: A depressed and probably suicidal artists cry for help, its a massive "Oh you want mroe snake? You want the future to go past MGS2? FUCKING HERE" Only to be stuck in a depressing dystopian hellhole, and I dont mean Chapter 3. Snake is a shell, like Kojima was making this.

>Portal ops: lol

>MGS:PW: Kojima wanted this to be MGS5 and it shows, while its gameplay isnt stealth as it is arcadey stealth, the amount of content and robust story telling in this is insane, due to tech limitations most story is optional tapes but theres hours of great writing and characters. Konami said no mainline on handheld.

MGS:GZ(TPP Prequel): 9/10 literally.

MGS:TPP: Its missing an entire chapter, bad gameplay, pointless open world

>>6911239
I know Thief 3 is decent. I also know something will be missing.

>>6911250
>Lol you literally need to play every single MG in existence to even attempt to appreciate V.
I know. I don't trust my normalfriends opinions on anything and threw that in there because I knew someone would kek at it
>Get into the series, here how it is as a huge stealth fan.
I will for sure. I'm so slow to playing console games now because my setup isn't convenient. I have so many GOATs games I keep putting off. Right now I'm on Vagrant Story, which I've been chipping away at for the entire year.
>The rest of that post
I kinda knew it went from super serious and deep, to pretty goofy, to really butchered modern games but that puts in more context. I need to see if I even have all the original trilogy. I either have 1 & 2, or 1 & 3.

>>6911589
You can Emulate 1 and 2 flawlessly barring a smidge of post-processing in 2 and pressure buttons(dualshock2 or higher required) this is only a major issue in MGS3/4.

1 is very short, like 12 hours 100% blind taking your time. Prob 7-9 hours normally. MGS2 is massive and requires MGS1 to understand because its literally fucking integral from a gameplay standpoint, its why I said its one of the only games that can only exist within being a game.

Heres the timeline FYI.

MGS3 > MG:PW > GZ > TPP> MG1 > MG2 > MGS1 > MGS2 > MGS4 >MG:Revengence(canon until otherwise stated)

>>6911604
I actually got the first 3 games. Idk how long it'll be before I play 4, because I don't have a PS3 but I have PS3 games I want to play just waiting for a decent deal or motivation to get one. I'm going to get it just because it's dirt cheap now and I don't expect that to last after what happened to the 6th gen. Will probably wait a while before getting the 8th gen games.

>>6911690
>
should really play them. Im not memeing imo when I say MGS2 is a masterpiece, not in game design, but overall as a game, its like SH2, SH1 is far better of a video game to play, but SH2 is above that. Neither are stealth really, but MGS2 has some fucking incredible scripted AI, beating even F.E.A.R.

>>6911706
I'll get on it after I'm done with Vagrant Story. I'm like halfway through it and want to tie it up before I pick up any other games.

>>6911724
good on you, just go into MGS1 in the context of its release year, its not as timeless as Thief, it has serious design flaws/jank but its fucking on par with atmosphere. MGS2 perfects it, one of the most enjoyable games to control, its a bigger improvement to MGS1 than Thief 2 was to Thief 1, by at least 3 fold. MGS3 and up is actual stealth. MGS1 is glorified pacman, MGS2 is like REmake 1, its astronomical in improvements.

>>6911735
I actually kinda prefer Thief 1 to 2 because of the atmosphere and all that, but I know what you're saying.

>>6911769
I agree with you, gameplay wise Thief 2 BTFO of Thief 1, especially gold, but Thief 1 is super unique, its like a FPS stealth tomb raider vs Thief 2 pure stealth+thievery. My only gripe with Thief 1 is how Bhopping is so fucking easy and good, I find myself doing it too much,

>>6911928
Thief 2 really cuts a lot of the crap out and gets straight to the gameplay. My problem isn't even the bunny hoping. It's circle strafing the guards and knocking them out. Once you've done it enough it's pretty much a gaurentee to work. I wonder if there's a fan patch to fix it.

>>6911936
sadly the fan patch is The Dark Mod, better graphics/lighting which add a lot to gameplay, but worse movement

>>6911942
The movement is REALLY fucked. I kinda wonder if it would've been better had they made it in the Source engine. I love source's lighting engine, especially whatever one CS:S/Gmod use. Graphics-wise I get a bit of eye bleed. I mentioned it earlier in this thread. Their texture work isn't ideal >>6890036 >>6890068 >>6890106

>>6911928
I find myself saving much more often in 2 than in 1. I never know if the Garett is going to make a noise when leaping over something or if he's going to get stuck in the doorway or while going up the stairs.

>>6911954
>I love the lighting engine

You dumb nigger, do you have any idea how hard it is in Source to deal with lighting? It has no real time lighting preview, and the one it says it has hasnt worked since 2007. You should grovel at the feet of good lighting source map makers.

Why? BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO COMPILE THAT FAG SHIT EVERY FUCKING TIME TO EVEN CHECK.

>>6911972
I meant the lighting algorithm they used for static lights not the realtime lighting. I made a source map with a single real-time light that was for a fan. The biggest problem I had was it broke the flashlight. I think this was before it was officially supported. Honestly if there is peak atmosphere I don't care if the game has dynamic lights or not.

Pic rel isn't my map just an example of amazing atmosphere, even for a Disney ride recreation. There are better examples but I don't have them saved.

>>6911989
>im literally gonna post a fucking magnum opus NIPPER map well after he made 200 fucking maps

Dude, im sorry, Source map making is cancer and its my favorite map making tool. This shit is disgustingly hard/unintuitive. Its one of the most powerful and customizable .bsp small-medium load area type design, but blows cock the second you delve away from First Person.

>>6912004
>but blows cock the second you delve away from First Person.
But Thief should only be played in First Person. I know it's really finicky. I was working on a TTT map for a year or two. Most of that time was trying to fix bugs like the light piercing objects despite having block light brushes The lighting was super finicky but when it worked nothing is close imo.

>>6912048
I agree, my point is Source and Goldsrc(hl1) lighting can only be previewed by compiling and loading the map, its a INSANE timesink, considering how light design is the 2nd most important concept in level design besides level design itself. I worked in the industry as a scepter/environmental artist, but my work only began truly after a proper well designed gameplay flow of a level.

What I did was pure art, what the level designers and playtesters did was make gameplay, which is most important.

>>6912063
Nice. I always wanted to work in the industry but I'm way too blackpilled about the whole thing. I am well aware of how much of a time sink hammer is. I wasn't saying it'd be better to work with just the end product would be better. This was the dynamic light I mentioned. This was before portal2 so it wasn't even properly supported in hammer. I implemented it using "Projected Texture" and it broke my flashlight in all sorts of weird interesting ways.

>>6912130
glad you realize the blackpill, sadly there is hardly a redpill in this industry. Awful hours, semantics that make your """""""""""secure""""""""""" job on contracts, awful pay/benefits vs what you can make as a professional/educated Artist/Programmer/Sound Engineer.

Really the only professions stuck strictly to gaming is scripting/level design/optimization/UI. The other shit makes far more money in other industries.

>>6912130
too add on from this >>6912143
what you should to me is smart scripting, shadow stenciled, rotating textures that pretend to be light shafts(they are textures, literally) rotating. This is just an example of how customizable the engine is, this isnt possible baseline even with Sven Coop which is like 5 years advanced above Goldsrc.

This person made the rotation+texture+shadows(rotating, not dynamic) on a proper timeline. Its not dynamic, its great scripting, which is a massive optimization improvement and trick.

>>6912143
I'm honestly pretty black pilled about a regular 9-5 to. I invested so much time and energy learning about how game engines work that I'm now head and shoulders above my coworkers coding wise, my bosses know it, but I'm not going to get anything out of it. Kinda at the point where I'm about to snap and just go on a sabbatical to see if I can get an indie game going or maybe just some sort of alternate form of income. Yeah I know it's retarded. I'm not naive on the subject just losing my mind

>>6912163
I scrapped that map years ago. It was peak atmosphere imo but I am heavily biased, but most of it is fucked up with glitches because Gmod breaks backwards compatibility like you wouldn't believe. You'll notice that first picture I showed was oddly cropped to hide all the errors. I gave up on it when I gave up on my old TTT server. Modding just feels like a waste of time to me now. I'd rather just try to make my own game or something.

>>6912189
get indie inspiration from the Terraria Dev. He was a military vet in some EU shithole and made what he loved, even stealing Final Fantasy 1 character Design.

Hes now set for life. I bring him up over Notch and Scotty CockThorn(Five nights at freddies) because of how much effort he put into his one game.

>>6912216
There's a lot of crazy stories in the indie scene. Even though No Man's Sky was a huge blunder Hello Games really did fight tooth and nail to make it a reality, and now that they are pretty much set they can actually make the game they wanted to make via patches. A lot of people are pissed but at least they can make what they want even if it's 5 or so years late. There are a fair bit of blackpills to though like Otherside Entertainment.

>>6912239
the issue is, from me wokring in it, and other close members of my life working in it, AAA is a crap shoot. Its decent pay with 0 security, its a super weird like Salary+Contract pay which benefits are tied to. You can lose everything after just 3 years of like 12 hour work shifts.

Indie is very risky, its a disgusting amount of capital unless you are an outlier like FNAF dev or Undertale(undertale dev had like a decade of work on a comic and music) and people get caught up you will be that.

AA is based but rare to get into, its like Divinity Sin 2. Small team, high pay, better security, like a fucking unicorn to get hired.

>>6912289
That's the general jist I've gotten from looking into it. Even then AA teams don't seem to last.

>>6912339
AA is the most lucrative but big gamble, but a good AA is set for life. You also get some nice stock options for when your good enough to get bought for hundreds of millions.

>>6912351
I honestly hope I can start indie and scale into AA. It's a crapshoot and even surviving as an indie is basically a shot in the dark, but that'd be my S-rank win scenario.

>>6912354
Indie is far easier to make capital, you prob wont be Notch, but ive know plenty of indies with like a $1000 budget who come out with like $200,000 but thats not profit, employees cost a lot, even in a 3 man indie, Avoid AAA, go for Indie, good content is never unnoticed even if it takes time.

>>6880806
>old game starts getting threads
Who was it this time?

>>6912380
>good content is never unnoticed even if it takes time.
If that's the case I think I'm pretty good since I've been thinking about this shit and writing notes for almost a decade now. Only problem I have is I don't know how to shill other than spamming the /v/ boards, spamming youtubers, spamming streamres, spamming forums, avoiding reddit, etc.

>>6912390
Youtube+Twitter then into Twitch, thats all, Produce better content, and trust me, I follow mostly sub 500 viewers on Twitch, if you are good at the game, and have a passion that oozes to the viewers, you will get people to stick around.

NEVER do this for clout/money, only do the things you truly love, it will bring an audience.

>>6912401
>NEVER do this for clout/money, only do the things you truly love, it will bring an audience.
Games aren't exactly something you go in for the money. Unless you're ignorant on how oversaturated it is with cash grabs.

>>6912420
>420▶
>>>6912401 (You)
I know but youd be shocked at the idiots that get into this because of money.

This is a thread for Thief and shit not two ideas guys to jerk each other off.

Have you guys been playing any FMs lately? Working on one maybe?

>>6912675
I wish I was an ideas guy, at least then I wouldnt wanna blow my brains out., fuck this industry. Immersive Sims sell like shit even backed by millions.

>>6912385
I mean Civvie11's doing a comfy Thief 1 playthrough so that might be it but I remember a few years back there being comfy Thief threads here every few weeks. It's a really beloved series even though it's fallen completely off the fucking radar over the last few years, in part thanks to having one of the most mediocre reboots in recent memory. Thief 2014 isn't as bad as people say it is but fuck it's completely uninspiring and really did put the franchise in the ground for the foreseeable future.

>>6911250
I'll defend MGS1 a bit more. For Ps1 that game is just brimming with detail. It's not like Thief though were you have multiple different systems interacting with each other constantly. With MGS1 you have floor textures that make a fuckton of noise like Thief but they only appear once in the campaign and it's easy to miss them entirely. Ditto the footsteps in snow mechanic which only really appears once. I'm not saying it's better or worse than Thief, even if I do prefer the later, but it's a really different design and for Ps1 it's fucking insane how many small one-off mechanics appear in that game. I really like MGS1 and I think it gets a bad rap around here just because it's core mechanics weren't insanely ahead of its time like Thief's were.

>>6913184
Called it.

>>6913184
The Black Parade and Broken Goddess might breathe some new life into Thief if they ever get done.

>>6913184
>>6912385
>>6913203
There have been multiple Thief threads prior to the 6th gen fiasco even without some e-celeb shilling it. They just died pretty fast. This one had multiple conversations in it keeping it alive for a week, even during the crazy speed the board has had lately.

Do FMs have genres?
If not, what would their names be?

Thieves' Highway - Where you jump around rooftops and take (brief) jaunts into differently styled houses, towers, and compounds from an "overworld".
Heist - Where you break and enter a single highly guarded compound to take one or few particular item(s) of interest, often with the escape being a significant challenge
Escape Room - Where you're stuck in a compound and have to solve a few puzzles to win your freedom
Horror - Self explanatory
Cult - Heavy focus on religious themes, with the player often having to perform some act(s) of mysticism or bear witness to them
Labyrinth - The map (or parts of it) is deliberately designed to get you lost, often using tricks to do so, so navigation itself is a primary challenge
Monster-Centric - Self explanatory
Human-Centric - Self explanatory
Pursuit - Something involving chasing a target?

Any oldfags have a list of preestablished terms or would like to contribute?

>>6913629
The Dark Mod had tags. LIke "City, Mansion, Cave, Horror, Monsters".

>>6913629
Not exactly genres but tags agreed upon within community. Naming for my fms collection is sort of similar to that. Check thiefguild

I just found out they turned Garrett into a manlet in Thief 3 and later games
>Thief 1-2: +6' (6 dromed units, 1 dromed = slightly over 1 foot)
>Thief 3-4: 5'4-5'5

>>6910274
>>6910391
Thanks anons

>>6914029
The more I look at this image the more I realize it almost perfectly captures the Thief games

>>6914029
looking at thi4f garrett will never cease to piss me off

they literally fell for every meme there is about stealth
>if you're stealthy, you must also be weak and delicate
>if you're active during night, you must also be some dark and brooding emo faggot edgelord

also, let's not forget that the devs said they designed him so that he would "stand out in a crowd".
fucking imbeciles

>>6914595
I don't even consider that Garrett as the same Garrett (they're almost a foot apart). Everytime I see him I just think of JC Denton used in memes like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmi3HqJbnu4

musta been rats

>>6913629
Anything labeled with "City" or "Thieves' Highway" is automatically not worth your time.

>>6916768
Touting the fact that you're retarded won't make your statement any more true, especially when you're the only one here with such an opinion.

comfy bump

Zoomer here, I just finished Thief 1 & 2 today, after I bought them 1 month ago on GoG.
It was great experience and all levels (besides Soulforge, which is the only level I skipped) were at least decent, but I felt that there weren't too many replayable levels, so I'd like to ask you to recommend me some FM s that are set in manor and have interesting level designs like The Sword

>>6918563
>I felt that there weren't too many replayable levels
Not sure what you mean. They're all giant mazes with multiple paths so you could at least take a new approach each time. Even the Thieves guild has multiple routes to the 2 mansions. Not to mention some of the levels get way better on replay (Bonehoard, Haunted Cathedral).

>>6918563
try "Heist Society"

>>6918563
I personally really like Transitions in Chaos: Conspiracies in the Dark. Really awesome manor.

>>6919932
What are the best Mindfuck FM for Thief?

Id like the better ones for Thief 2 and The Dark Mod, especially the dark mod because im interested in its engine.

>>6920706
The recently released Malazar's Inscrutable Tower is pretty mindfucky. If you want similar weird shit for The Dark Mod, then I can't recommend The Ravine enough, especially if you liked The Sword.

>>6895993
i haven't watched that particular commentary yet but i unequivocally believe that, a. lgs going bankrupt in 2000 was one of the key events that propelled the games industry down a dark, DARK path and b. somebody put retard juice in the beer at the looking glass closing party and halved the iqs of nearly everyone at the company
i'd tell everyone to just go look at terri brosius and tim stellmach's twitter pages for a few seconds, but i think otherside falling on its ass and releasing a half-baked prealpha of underworld ascendant as a finished product is still the best example of these people completely and utterly blowing themselves the fuck out? the ss3/tencent shitstorm isn't even worth mentioning, i've tried coming to terms with the fact that most lgs alumni are fucking hacks for the last few years and it hurts ;~;

also lol when the fuck did downwinder decide to bless us with his presence once again. such a powerful man

>>6921454
Terri Brosius is doing absolutely fine, so is Austin Grossman and several other designers from LGS who still work in the industry.

>>6921498
anon 'm not mourning because they haven't gotten any jobs since 2000, i'm mourning because they're clueless boomer hacks that haven't produced anything meaningful or interesting since 2000

>>6921551
Sure thing kiddo. UA being a disaster doesn't invalidate the work of other LGS alumni since then, especially since it's only Neurath and Stellmach.

>>6921570
work such as..?
I know Emil is overseeing the retarded nu-Fallouts, and Doug Church was picking his nose at Valve for a while, what else?

>>6921454
It's really hard to say if looking glass dying was a good or bad thing. On one hand it could've been like nintendo where it only slightly went to shit. On the other hand it could've become a completely different cancerous company like 90% of other companies.

>>6921570
Idk dude they all seem pretty incompetent these days. It's the problem musicians have. They get so much clout and shit they don't try. The game is different to them. I at least have respect for the UA devs since they went into an uphill battle, while the rest of them are at safe jobs with Valve and Riot. UA had a ton of ambitious ideas but they burned their resources out fast and it shows.

>>6921612
Terri Brosius and Austin Grossman had a successful stint with Arkane. Randy Smith is making the games he loves to make. Iikka Keranen has been with Valve for decades. Mark Lizotte worked on some very well received LOTR games. Before making UA, Stellmach worked on Doom 3 along with Rob Caminos. Eric Brosius, Matt Gilpin and Greg LoPiccolo had a very successful stint at Harmonix with the Guitar Hero series. Mike Ryan worked on Dark Messiah. Dorian Hart did some design and writing for Bioshock, same with Nate Wells and Ian Vogel. Karen Wolff worked on Max Payne 3 and GTA V. Do you want me to go on?

These people may not work on games with the same calibre as Thief or System Shock, but A. Not all LGS games were games as big/complex as these (see Flight Unlimited or Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri) and B. The failure of Neurath and Stellmach, two developers among many others in LGS, certainly doesn't invalidate the work of the other people.

In short, don't talk out of your ass.

>>6921647
>The failure of Neurath and Stellmach, two developers among many others in LGS, certainly doesn't invalidate the work of the other people.
I love how literally the only 2 devs who went out of their way to make a game that wasn't castrated by execs are the ones that get shade thrown at them.

>>6921667
And we have no idea what went on behind closed doors. You guys have no basis at all to tell if they're hacks or if something beyond their control happened, as if very often the case in this industry especially with indie titles.

>>6921676
I know it was stated Bethesda castrated Dishonored and Bioshock was also castrated.

>>6921647
I was asking earnestly.

Terra Nova wasn't huge, but it did have ambitious tech (reflections, weather, smoke) and story experiments (dynamic objectives). I also do unironically consider Dishonored to be close to the calibre of OG LGS.

>>6921676
we do have a general outline of what happened, I think. the old guard devs looked at Unity store and thought games can be made plug'n'play these days. then they hired inexperienced kids to make their game for them, who then promptly failed to ship a product.
very recently Wayward Realms (ex-Daggerfall) was revealed to basically be in this exact state also.

>finally recover from burnout after doing some 6 hour 23,000 loot requirement mission
>scrollan through my 136 entry backlog
>stop at one at random
>look it up, get redirected to a russian site
>k
>no virus pls
>boot it up
>it's one of the most soulful things I've ever seen in my life
>glorified tutorial mission but it gives me an adventurous thrill in my stomach I only get when I play the OMs

go play Precarious Business right now

>>6921918
adding on to this, it's easy to forget what good ambience management does for a map. This one reminds you.

>>6921918
That 23,000 loot goal missions sounds like some Cardia trash, don't bother with any mission from him ever again, he hasn't released even a decent mission in over 20 tries.

As for Precarious Business - It's alright. It's a bit too basic and flat, and most of the city isn't interact-able and you kinda just walk around in a linear path via a loop to the mansion so it feels like padding for playtime. It feels like someone trying to remake Assassins but on a budget.

The actual mansion itself is a bit interesting and cool so at least it has that going for it.

>>6899331
the ghosts are way worse than the spiders

>>6901453
I love these.

I really love this mission.
It's like Deus Ex's Liberty Island. But with more buildings

plus it reminds me a lot of the warehouses and older buildings from where my grandma lived when I was growing up.
A small tourist town that used to be a military base in the northwest US. Lots of 1880-1950's era office buildings, apartments and warehouses.

>>6922129
>I ain't taffing around now

>>6922146
It really is an amazing mission.

>>6921647
>>6921630
>>6921612
>>6921570
ok i'm awake :333333
to be more specific, a lot of ex-lgs folks were still doing shit in the industry to varying degrees in the early/mid 2000s beyond thief 3 and deus ex 2. seamus blackley ended up being one of the fathers of the original xbox (you decide for yourself whether or not this is a good thing), sara verrilli produced swat 4 at irrational (and i think some ex-ss2 crew worked on freedom force - obviously ken levine is still around, for better or worse) before ending up teaching at mit/epstein university, iikka and doug church ended up at valve shitting themselves and doing nothing (btw iikka made some really damn good 90s quake maps), there were a couple of lgs-adjacent people that worked on the first tomb raider reboot (lulu lamer, doug church, austin grossman), i think some ex ion storm dudes like jordan thomas ended up working on bioshock (fort frolic?) but i haven't played that game because it fucking reeks, and obviously emil pagliarulio has been the face of nu-bethesda for almost 20 years
so yes, after the lgs diaspora in 2000 there were a fair number of refugees from the company that continued to influence the industry, even though the traditional immersive sim model pretty much went dormant for a decade. i wasn't being specific enough and i will concede this particular argument. i don't even physically hate any of the former lgs crew either, i don't WANT to, i listened to that interview randy smith did with amorphous a year ago and i enjoyed it (i haven't listened to "inside at last" yet) - i'm just really disappointed in most of them
NOW try telling me something a former looking glass employee did in the last decade that wasn't the epitome of decline... and no, underworld ascendant (and ss3!) reflected poorly on every single person that was involved with it, including warren spector (who was already a hack to begin with) and nate wells

INTO THE ODD IS FUCKING UNPLAYABLE
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET PASS THE GUARDS WITH NO WEAPONS IN FULL DAYLIGHT???
HOW???????????

>>6918657
Thanks for the suggestion; I've waisted my entire day playing it on all the difficulties.
What other FM's would you recommend?

>>6922716
There's more than enough shadows to hide in, pony fucker. It's not hard.

>>6922716
fen??

>>6922921
Hidden Agenda (same author)
Ominous Bequest
The Art of Thievery
Greyfeather Gems

then: https://imgur.com/oHPzFZX

>>6922716
Just run past bro.

>>6922138
that whole conference was fucking hilarious. I dont think anyone knew what the fuck Carmack was saying, hes on a whole different level.

>>6901453
>>6922138
>>6923284
which conference was this?

>>6923309
One of the original Oculus VR conferences at the start of VR. Its just Carmack being 300 IQ and no one can follow.

>>6923032
That's one very pretty map

I finished Thief 2 and I couldnt remember I did. Gonna play it again wish me luck.

>>6923032
generic city missions takes up most of this list in the imgur so don't even bother with it.

>>6924776

another comfy bump

>>6921127
>the ravine
Holy fuck dude this shits perfect, I only played about 15 minutes cause im saving it for tonight, this shit is 100% what I was looking for, surreal, alien, but super immersive. Reminds me of Trail of Blood+The Sword.

>>6927246
You're welcome anon. Spoonman's other missions are also really good but they aren't as batshit as this one.

>>6927454
ill have to check more of his shit, I found myself playing a lot of Bikerdudes stuff, Hes super consistent, but his like seasonal/competitive maps are a bit meh. He def needs time. Like his Ablrics Curse or whatever, its got a lot going for it, but he had a bit too many supernatural guards and not enough supplies to play comfortably. I dont think being spotted in Thief should be an instant death sentence and that problem comes in with the low supply, and IIRC guards in The Dark Mod can eventually beat the players speed, this doesnt exist iirc in 1 and 2.

Still gotta check out Painters Wife, seems like the biggest single mission made by a whole team.