/vr/ - Retro Games

world vs usa

depends on the game
most games should be played in 8:7 as they were developed unless youre chasing nostalgia but some games were slick enough to account for the stretching

>>6872460
https://youtu.be/ssluTgfkdlg

>>6872485
One thing to consider is those games that compensated for that could only use background graphics. I can't remember why, but sprites can be used like that.

can't see a difference. you'd need to look at this mofugga with the hubble space microscope to even see that shit

>>6872460
cannot unsee

>>6872460
The slanted pipe is not distorted in the left.

>>6872460
Easily 4:3 because of
>>6872748

It's evidently clear that they designed it to be used on a tube tv that everyone owned during the times these games were made.

>>6872907
i think you've got that backwards buddy, super mario world was not designed with tube tvs in mind, whereas some games like chrono trigger, seen here >>6872485
was

8:7, not only because that's how SNES were designed to look but also because that's how GameBoy games were designed to look.

>>6872495
No

>>6872927
I think only the opening accounted for it. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of devs were mishandling aspect ratio and millions grew up with stretched games...which ends up being how the majority remember it

>>6873010
yeah i think the biggest reason theres even a debate is because a lot of emulators and clone consoles give you the choice
for the most part i stick with 8:7, im not playing on a CRT anyway so im not trying to recreate my childhood or anything

>>6872460
Stretched to 16:9 for even more accuracy

>>6872460
It's something I barely notice on a still frame. I don't even register it when playing

>>6872460
I used to swap depending on the game, but eventually I just got used to the stretch.

>>6872460
If not for feature creeping they'd have been perfect squares a looong time ago.

"8:7, not only because that's how SNES were designed to look but also because that's how GameBoy games were designed to look. "

Interesting that the only interesting comment was pruned within a low quality thread.

>>6873149
Oh wait another anon agree'd with the shitposting op.

Nevermind.

Kirby's Adventure title screen. It flat out says "circle", so do tell how the left is how it's supposed to look

>>6873164
>1:1
>512x448
what?

>>6872460
3:2
Threadly reminder that the SNES version of SMW is an inferior version of the game.

>>6873171
Pixel aspect. Not resolution aspect

>>6873172
I knew they brightened up the colors for the GBA version but I didn't realize how washed out it was

>>6873173
That’s kooky talk anon

>>6873175
You mean how SOULful it is? It feels bright and happy and mystical in a way that the original didn't.

>>6873185
Mystical is the right word, all the bonus content makes it feel like even the most seasoned player has no idea what happens next. Play value and soul are words that come to mind too.

>>6872927
>super mario world was not designed with tube tvs in mind
what kind of tv was it designed for then?

>>6873198
It was designed for liquid crystal displays

>>6873149
>"8:7, not only because that's how SNES were designed to look
look on what? show me the 8:7 display you could hook a SNES up to when those games were being made

>>6873203
in 1990

>>6873207
Yeah it’s right here anon *grabs my balls* oogatz your feelings.

>>6873212

>>6873214
does your balls have picture in picture? asking for a friend

>>6873198
it wasnt designed with any television scanning in mind at all, they did all the design on computers, using 1:1 pixels

>>6873219
Yeah, if you look close enough you can see my taint

>>6873218
okay show me a 1990 LCD you dumb faggot. those didn't hit the market until late 90's and they were a fucking TINY part of the market. But yeah I am sure Nintendo was designing their games for TV's that had 1% of the market 7 years into the future

>>6873225
>he doesn’t know
O I’m laffin, never change anon

>>6873220
oh so they made games just for other developers who had thousand dollar monitors? wow. seems fucking stupid of them to produce millions of cartridges then

>>6873226
show it. show me the widely adopted LCD television in a enough consumer homes in the year 1990 that Nintendo would design Super Mario World for. go ahead dumbfuck

>>6873218
>cholesterol extracted from carrots
wat

>>6872460
Why does this eternal debate only get discussed for SNES but never PS2?

>>6873228
He's right though, you're just being an angry nigger for no reason. Very few snes games accounted for the inevitable consumer stretch, and even fewer did so for more than one screen (triforce title in alttp, moon in ct). Genesis games, on the other hand, frequently relied on the signal from RF/Composite to blend dithering and achieve transparency, showing that they were far more concerned with how the games appeared to the consumer that snes developers.

>>6873243
no he's not right. the games were made for consumer televisions. end of story.

>>6873231
I’m not going to spoon feed you, especially when you’re being so ungrateful, like a contumacious whining child. Do you expect anyone to help you when you can’t even feign acting cordial? Please, anon. Grow up.

>>6873228
i dont think you're understanding what people are trying to explain to you
some games were designed with the wider pixel ratio scanning of games in mind, like >>6873164 and >>6872485
(or more specifically, certain elements of those games were designed with the wider scanning in mind)
but for most games, the developers were indifferent to this pixel stretching. I'm sure they were aware of it, but they didn't factor it into their design and this is evidenced by things we know should look like circles or squares. On most games, playing in an 8:7 with square pixels will represent how the sprites and assets were originally designed. On some games, they were designed with 4:3 in mind so you should play at that resolution. There's no hard and fast rule, and ultimately it comes down to your preference and recollection of what looks "right".

>>6873246
fuck off zoomer. go watch some more of your youtuber faggots

>>6873249
Here’s a little bedtime reading grandpa lmao

>>6873247
I don't give a fuck aspect ratio people play with. I don't give a fuck if they go full 16:9 grandma mode. My issue is dumb faggots saying they were designed for 8:7 when 99.9% of end users had 4:3

>>6873254
stupid fucking faggot. show. me. how. many. LCD. TV's. where. in. Homes. in. 1990

>>6873262
Oh nice, so you’re moving the goalposts after you insisted they weren’t marketed until the late 90s. Is this how boomers concede an argument? It doesn’t have much dignity about it.

>>6873245
Behind the scenes video and photos show that they were designed on broadcast monitors. Either they were unaware of how it would appear to the average consumer, or they just didn't care. Neither is a particularly good look.

>>6873254
here's some reading for you. I thought you should learn about your ancestors

>>6873259
What they were designed for =/= what the user has you stupid fucking retard. It's like Undertale. It was designed for 4:3 despite the fact that 99% of people were on 16:9 by the time it came out. Doesn't change the fact that it was designed for 4:3.
Your argument is equivalent to saying
> "Well, ackchuyually, I prefer to play Undertale stretched to 16:9. Everyone had 16:9 screens when it came out so that's clearly what it's designed for"

>>6873263
they werent you dumb faggot. I was alive in 1990. you obviously weren't

>>6873267
>get proven conclusively wrong
>devolve to calling them retarded
Not a good look anon, it hurts me to see how low you’ll stoop to preserve your fragile ego.

>>6873272
You lived in Japan in 1990? Because in Japan, they were, did you not read what I posted?

>>6873259
but they were designed for 8:7, or maybe to put it more pedantically, they were designed for 256:224; the native resolution of the SNES. Since they were using square pixels during development, this is the ratio they were developing for.

>>6873268
your argument is stupid. you are stupid. people can display undertale however they want. you could only display SNES games in 4:3.

>>6873275
prove it. prove that LCD's were widely adopted in Japan in 1990.

>>6873282
You're missing the point dumbass. The point is that devs often just design things how they want and don't take into account consumer hardware. Just because 99.9% of people weren't playing it at the aspect it was designed at, doesn't change the aspect it was designed at.

uh oh looks like some faggot just ate some shit. go back to your metal jesus zoom zoom

>>6873290
no. they don't. that'd be like saying "Durr I made up my own language I don't care if no one can read it, I am going to write my novel how I want it written"

>>6873292
You two idiots are arguing about something that has no bearing whatsoever on the point of the thread
Obviously these games weren't developed for LCD screens, but they were developed using square pixels for a device that had a native 8:7 output

>>6873297
yes. developed USING, but not FOR. Nintendo was just fucking lazy. They couldn't bother to do the work to ensure circles would look like fucking circles

>>6873286
That has no bearing on this argument, the argument was that they weren’t sold until 1997. I’m sorry you can’t understand this, but please just grow up.

>>6873292
>several inches in size
That directly contradicts what the article I posted said. I’m sorry you’re struggling with such a simple argument, but it’s clear you can’t handle losing.

>>6873303
no. that wasn't the argument. the argument was what a fucking SUPER NINTENDO was being displayed on you dense motherfucker

>>6873294
> that'd be like saying "Durr I made up my own language I don't care if no one can read it, I am going to write my novel how I want it written"
And? That's clearly exactly what happened with a bunch of SNES games. The sprites were designed for 7:8 then the devs realized it would be stretched and said "meh, I don't really care if people can experience it exactly how I designed it, it's close enough". But now that we CAN experience it exactly how they designed it, there's no reason not to do so.

>>6873301
Yeah so if they didn't do the work to account for the stretch, then they were developing for 8:7 display (which didn't exist)
It sounds like we're in agreement, I'm glad you finally understand.
You can see more evidence of this with Nintendo referring to 8:7 as "pixel perfect" on their mini consoles, and the fact that the GBA SNES ports all had square pixels as well.

>>6873306
Keep beating up that straw man and wheeling the goal posts around retard, anyone can read the thread and see that you’re being disingenuous.

>>6873305
yes. many people had a 5 inch television in their house. and they hooked game consoles up to it. god you're the dumbest little zoomnigger

>>6873309
notice how you didin't highlight anything I said, like you didn't show me those consumer LCD tv numbers in 1990

>>6873310
The article I posted suggested that there were 14” LCD TVs marketed in Japan as early as the late 80s. Thanks for playing anon, but just get over it already. You lose, just like you lost the war over gen 6. Move on with your life.

>>6873314
I don’t need to, it’s immaterial to the argument. Of course, I’ve already explained this to you. Just accept that you stuck your foot in your mouth and get over it.

>>6873317
no. it didn't. you go reread it dumb fuck. it said Sharp DEMONSTRATED a 14-inch LCD and that it led to japan launching an LCD industry. Notice it doesn't give any fucking specifics.

the vast majority of LCD tv's in those years were used in Projection TV's and those fucking things were stretched to 4:3 through a lens

8:7 for 99% of super nintendo library
anyone saying otherwise is a nostalgia blinded retard, probably a shart too

>>6873324
You really need to drop the issue and just accept that you didn’t know what you were talking about, and appreciate that I was able to teach you something in the process. You shouldn’t receive this as an overtly negative thing.

>>6873319
still haven't shown me a popular LCD television in 1990 in any fucking country. eat shit

Bros, we're talking about Japan. Most of them waited fucking 2010 to buy a flat screen tv.

>>6873331
where's my 1990 lcd tv faggot?

>>6873335
they still use fucking 4;3 CRT computer monitors for christ sakes

>>6873334
>>6873336
>he can’t read
You gotta just let it go anon, you made an ass of yourself, but you’re being given the option to stop arguing graciously. I suggest you take it because I won’t get mired into a silly circle of logic like you’d prefer me to.

I'm going to take a shit, jack off, and have a sandwhich. When I get back I want my 1990 LCD televion or that guy is the biggest fucking faggot to have ever been a faggot

>>6873346
You're both faggots why the fuck did anyone start talking about LCDs holy fuck

>>6873349
Because snes games were designed for high end consumer LCD TVs. It’s like how records were marketed in quadraphonic and stereo at a time when most consumers still had mono setups (car radios for example). He refuses to understand that industry caters to high end consumers and not the great unwashed. (I suspect he grew up in a trailer)

SNES games were designed to run on the SNES hardware, which was able to render at 8:7 internal resolution, then stretch the image via digital to analog converter. Having to play them stretched was a necessity that stemmed from lacking hardware rather than a conscientious design choice. I'm sure this place will have plenty of autists that will defend stretched graphics solely by the virtue of them playing it so in their childhood.

>>6873362
Based

>>6873356
This is maybe the dumbest post I've ever read on /vr/

>>6873386
Stay mad retard, you’re the one choosing to subject yourself to this argument

>>6873362
A lot of people seem to have trouble comprehending that game developers were just people, not perfect omniscient beings who think of every possibility. "This is how they intended the artwork to be seen/the game to be experienced", well maybe they intend it in any particular way. Maybe they didn't think that far ahead, maybe they were just coloring pixels in a fucking computer.

>>6872460
Whatever makes squares perfect, I'll take. Sadly that's usually 8:7, but occasionally have to adjust after cropping overscan and adjusting initial/final scanlines. It's a curse to notice things like this.

>>6872496
I *wish* I were this retarded and undiscerning. You're probably shitting me, but I know lots of people who don't notice uneven pixel shimmering, aspect ratio problems worse than this, frame pacing issues, or low framerates. I can't imagine how lovely life must be just eating shit and liking it. Sounds blissful.

>>6873406
you sound very knowledgeable anon, what’s your degree in Doctor? Visuology?

>>6873408
You sound like you need glasses. Fuck, how about you just listen to someone describe the game or play text adventures? Pretty much the same shit if you can't notice any of what I mentioned.

>>6873413
What kind of response is that to a compliment? Why are you so paranoid?

>>6873413
Be sure to play said text adventures at a non-native resolution. Who cares if all the letters are uniform, after all?

>>6873247
>>6873259
>>6873276

neither of these two were accurate, remember, the SNES had a pillarbox overscan black area around the screen to compensate for screen monitors overscanning at 240p, besides someone posted a direct capture card screenshot from a real SNES, where is it?

>>6873418
>where is it?
Here.

The rigid, perfect squares look kind of mechanical and soulless. Rectangles and ovals just have more character. Far superior.

>>6873428
This, the snes engine in 4:3 burns pure unadulterated soul coal

>>6873426
thank you, but i was talking about one from yoshi's island taken by some anon to reply to these >>6873247

4:3
If the game looks stretched, tough shit, Nintendo should've taken CRT resolutions into account. You don't play SNES games in 8:7 just like you wouldn't play CPS2 games in "widescreen"

>>6873437
Whatever you say retard, you can’t police how I play my ludo

>>6873426
Now crop the borders out. It's still 4:3.

>>6873438
Cope. You can't argue in favor of being wrong.

>>6873450
>you’re wrong
Are you the same retard who made a fool of himself trying to say LCDs weren’t relevant until the 2000s?

>>6873445
An image can't be 4:3 lol. Those numbers refer to a type of screen.

>>6873456
No just throwing my two cents out there. I don't what most of you are niggering about with LCDs. Why are you so combative to anyone who plays differently that doesn't involve your 8:7 fetish?

>>6873437
It wasn't so much intended as it was "eh, close enough to a circle, good enough" and they called it a day. These days we have the option to play without astigmatism simulation, play at higher framerates, and all sorts of neat shit they just didn't bother or weren't capable of delivering to us.

>>6873460
The image size can absolutely be a 4:3 ratio lmao

>>6873463
No it can't. I can zoom in or out of an image. The screen is what stays the same.

>>6873460
>An image can't be 4:3
So then they can't be 8:7 either I guess, dumbass.

>>6873470
A screen can be 8:7

>>6873469
You can stop being retarded on purpose.
>>6873462
Whatever, they were 4:3 on TVs, that's how they stay. Why are 8:7 niggers so uppity at sperging to anyone who uses 4:3?

>>6873461
Where’d you get that from? I don’t care what ratio anyone plays in.

>>6873471
Again, no one cares for you being a literal obtuse retard.

>>6873474
You do know your screen has a certain resolution yes? It has that same resolution regardless of what images are on it. That doesn't change.

>>6873474
Play however you want. Hell, I'll be the first to say it's hard to get used to a thinner aspect ratio like that. I just can't suffer the ovals and rectangles anymore, and will adjust to resolve them on my shit.

>>6873482
That only would apply if every image took up the whole screen my retarded friend

>>6873482
Yeah, and it can have 4:3 images on it.

Stop posting like a nigger and/or austrailian

>>6873482
That depends on if he's using a CRT or not.

>>6873487
Even if your image is a tiny dot in the centre, the screen still has the exact same resolution.

>>6873489
Nope. The screen is what is 4:3, not the image. I can zoom in or out, stretch and squash images, but the screen still has the same resolution.
The screen is what's important here.

>>6873496
>>6873503
Screens and images can conform to aspect ratios. You're just being a nigger.

>>6873516
>screens
yes
>images
no. If a game has millions of different sized polygons we don't say it's "capable of millions of aspect ratios" or some shit. The screen has a single, unchanging aspect ratio, regardless of the images being shown.

>>6873543

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/clvs/manuals/en_gb/manual.html
>Pixel Perfect Displays the game with square pixels.
Direct confirmation from Nintendo that 8:7 is the perfect, objectively correct aspect ratio.

>>6873556
literally right above it lol:
>"original 4:3 aspect ratio"

>>6873564
Perfect > Original

>>6873572
"pixel perfect" != perfect

>>6873574
ninty brain damaged stockholm syndrom subhumans, everyone

>>6873574
If the pixels were designed to be rectangular, that would be perfect. They were not.

>>6873585

>>6873175
GBA didn't had a backlight screen until the SP model, so games had to make up for that by making the colors more bright so they could easily be seen by the non backlight screen, problem is that it looks bad if you play on a normal TV or on a backlight screen like a modded GBA

>>6873228
>"Dev's not caring" is something new and didn't exist back then
oh sweet summer child

>>6873598
What else do you think, moron?

>>6873605
he's right though

>>6873605
Devs used to care a great deal about the gamer experience.

>>6873634
No he’s not zoomgarry, zoomross, he’s fucking wrong

>>6873637
Wow the "old guard" of /vr/ sure do make convincing arguments lmfao

>>6873646
Shut your fucking mouth zoomer

>>6873647
No. Don't think I will be. /vr/ belongs to us now. It's about our childhood. Not yours :)

>>6873635
Is this really the hill you want to die on? There was much more shovelware and shameless licensed cashgrabs back in gen 3-5 than there is today.

>>6873656
You think you’re funny zoomheart? Passion of the zoom zoom? Mad Max in Zoomerdome? Do you think Mel Gibson would care about what some little zoomer thinks? I sure don’t.

>>6873657
Factually false.

>>6873673
General game quality has shot through the roof over the years. You're just a bitter, depressed xoomer.

>>6873684
>game quality has shot through the roof over the years
Literally the opposite is true. What are you doing on /vr/ if you believe such a clear-cut lie?

>>6873684
>Much azoom about zooming
Get lost you stupid diaper baby

>>6873686
I appreciate both old and new games equally because I'm not a mentally deficient nigger. Imagine being so far gone that you think you need to choose one over the other, rather than enjoying everything.

>>6873635
>they cared so much they flooded the market with shovelware and caused a crash

>>6873720
/vr/ is for retro games, anon.

>>6873723
There was only a slight shovelware problem with the PS1. All other retro consoles were fine, and the PS1 still had the majority of games being high quality.

>>6873732
90% of N64 library is shovelware and the rest is kiddie shit

>>6873728
>if you post on /vr/ you can only like old games
Do you really believe this? Do you think every /lit/ poster abstains from cinema, and every /tv/ poster hates literature? Second one is probably true, but you get my point.

>>6873732
NES, SNES, and Genesis had a huge amount of shovelware. Even the N64 had a baffling amount of terrible games proportional to the size of its library.

>>6873736
Yes. /vr/ is only for old games, did you read the sticky?

>>6873736
/vr/ is for talking about retro games. /lit/ is for talking about literature. /tv/ is for talking about tv and cinema.

>>6873743
>>6873746
Do you have brain problems?

>>6873750
No, I just have a problem with zoomers.

>>6873752
Really taking the new sticky hard huh? It's okay, you'll get over it champ.

>>6873750
You're free to like whatever you like, but on /vr/ you must discuss retro games.

>>6873756
>still derailing the thread after getting blown the fuck out
Grow up.

>>6873754
Get off of my board. Now.

>>6873736
You can like new games, but you can't discuss them here.

>>6873763
No zoom zoom, he can’t like them either.

>>6873761
>>6873763
>seething xoomy still derailing the thread
Yikes.

>>6873769
Shut up moron, go back to /v/ and quit harassing me

>>6873241
What games on PS2 weren't designed for 4:3?

>>6873307
This guy just can't fathom that a sweaty Jap nerd in the 90s could think "ah fuck it, they'll gobble it up". Crazy stuff

>>6872485
This. I usually stick to 8:7, save for a few exceptions. The games generally look nicer (at least to me) on 8:7.

>>6872748
>>6872907
OP scaled the image with his ass

>>6872927
>super mario world was not designed with tube tvs in mind
Counterpoint:

>>6873241
Because when a game outputs in a non standard resolution the aspect ratio is actually compensated, like in basically every console ever.

>>6874093
what is this

>>6874104
It’s a before and after of your mum after I stuff her with cum

>>6874107
>>>/reddit/

>>6874102
But it's not compensated, just like in OP

>>6874153
substantiate your claims

>>6873172
This is bait right?

>>6874159
yes, he made a bait thread trying to "convince" people that the GBA version is superior some days ago too

So I have a NES & SNES. What kind of tv do I need right now?

>>6874161
go buy a 4k ultra hdtv

>>6874162
>>6874081

>>6872748
>>6874164
i think ive gone too far

>>6874161
go namefag elsewhere

>4:3
lol

>>6872472
>world vs usa

Japan, Canada, Mexico, and parts of South America all used NTSC.

>>6874184
I think he was talking about mario being fatter

>>6874158
Surely you've played games on PS2 where the 3D aspect is correct but the HUD is not on the TV. Here is a 512x448 game where the HUD has perfect circles even before being corrected to TV 4:3.

>>6873241
it's not as noticeable

>>6874203
very nice.
>>6873263
why do zoomers change their philosophy and outlook on everything in life after they imaginatively decide they've been talking to a 'boomer' for the past few minutes?

>>6874203
I think some devs were just lazy, but the situation is not as bad as it's on SNES.

>>6873241
Because Nincels are stupid enough to believe 8:7 monitors exist.

>>6874204
Literally any screenshot on Google or video on Youtube will show the HUD as ovals if it's the PS2 version and not the correct Xbox or PSP version and it's quite obvious. And this is not the only game that has aspect problems, a lot do.

>>6874203
>>6874215
These are probably just lazy ports, so they didn't bother remaking the texture. I bet the 3D content is fine when stretched like in >>6874210

>>6874225
Yes the 3D part is fine. The problem is that if you try to correct it, the HUD is stretched but 3D is fine. If you leave it raw, the 3D is too skinny but the 2D remain perfect circles. At least for OP you can have a solution.

>>6874203
>>6874215
Devs did a proper job on PS2 overall, I think only some ports fucked things over like >>6874225 said

>>6874203
>>6874215
Damn, MC3 is so fucken fine... on Xbox

>>6874268
Xbox version is perfect, by the way.

>>6874305
Oh believe me I know. Friend used to lend me his Crystal Xbox. Still mad I haven't bought it off him.

>>6874340
I play it on my Xbox 360 backwards compatibility but for some reason during intense races it runs at like 20 fps or something the game speed feels a little slow. I need to do a test of the first race between this version and PS2 to see if it's just me going insane.

>>6874169
Next time don’t bother replying if you gonna act like an autistic retard.

>>6874382
disregard that, I suck cocks haha

>>6874163
Already have but which tv do I need for retro consoles.
>>6874402
Look at this falseflagging pathetic retard, just look at him.

>>6874424
Fuck off, retard.
>>6874163
Wouldn't that look bad all things considered? I was thinking of a CRT. I've heard Sony are the best one, is that true?

>>6874447
Fucking kek

>>6874163
Does that OSSC thing even outputs at 4K? I already have a 4K TV, so it might not look so bad.
>>6874402
>>6874424
>>6874447
>>6874459
What the hell is that shit, faggots. Stop.

>>6874471
Stop using my name, fucking falseflagging imposter faggot.

>>6873607
Don't play dumb

how can I delete these posts

>>6874473
>Anonymous
Get an original nickname and stop copying others, faggot.

>>6874484
Eat shit you hypocrite son of a whore.

>>6874495
>still using a ripoff of my handle
cringe

>>6874495
>>6874484
>>6874478
>>6874476
>>6874473
>>6874459
>>6874447
>>6874424
>>6874402
>>6874382
>>6874379
>>6874502
STFU annoying-ass nigs
nobody gives a FUCK about your dumbass name bullshit
go hang immediately
inb4 you guys act retarded again proving my point
also 8:7 wins fuck you lol

>>6874512
he doesn't even have a name lol
cringe?

>>6872460
test

>>6874512
why are blacks so ugly

>>6874502
Super cringe and gay.

>>6874512
Stfu insolent nigger. Back to ghetto with your poor worthless Nigger ass.

this is the worst thread in the history of /vr/
everyone here is a fucking retard
what's sad is that there were actually a handful of knowledgeable anons early in the thread trying to help some of the brainlets understand pixel scanning and aspect ratios, but they got chased away by the avalanche of bullshit
i hope all you faggots die limbless and alone

>>6873164
it's meant to be a hand drawn circle, its not gonna be perfect.

>>6873147
which shader is this one

>>6872460
Looks like neither on my actual CRT.

>>6874379
>>6874379
No, it's ONLY solid on OG Xbox hardware, the ps2 version has pretty bad performance, tons of slowdown. PSP version is worst though.
You're lucky it at least runs on 360, considering it's not officially supported. It's OG Xbox emulator, while impressive, is pretty famous for being bad.

>>6873445
572x448
which is very close to what nintendo used in the 3ds virtual console (284x224). taking into account analog to digital conversion errors, I believe the number nintendo used to be correct.
so there you have it, nes and snes are not 4:3 nor 8:7 but 71:56.

>>6875485
If sub-PS2 performance is just a 360 backwards compatibility issue then this only makes me want to own a real OG Xbox. Only thing you get on 360 is 4x MSAA.

>>6873264
Its hard to tell but they look like regular consumer TVs to me. This one here doesn't even look like a Trinitron. And if they didn't at least check what the games looked like on consumer sets they'd have to be incompetent since they'd have to make sure text and shit was legible and important shit wasn't cut off by overscan.

>>6874682
>he still can't draw a perfect circle
That's fucking embarrassing.
First, you draw a face and then you erase the more detailed features. And then you'll have a perfect hand drawn circle.

>>6874183
Not an issue on a 4:3 CRT, which is what retro games were objectively meant to be played on

>>6876012
You can use sharp-bilinear to avoid that on an LCD at the cost of a very slight amount of blur (less than what you'd see on a CRT).

>>6876071
Or you can not be a faggot and just use a CRT.

>>6876190
Why?

>>6873247
Damn is DKC like this too

This thread is a fucking dumpster fire. The SFC/SNES was on the market at a time that an overwhelming majority of its owners were viewing it over RF or composite running into a plain old 15kHz relatively 4:3 CRT. Most graphics designers probably didn't give half a shit what display technology their customers were using, they were collecting a check to draw pixels in a grid that would get shipped off to some other group to integrate into the game's source. There are several layers of disconnect between the person physically digitizing the art and the person who cares what final experience the end user has. Producers may have thought about this stuff, but there is never going to be an objective "what the developer intended", there is just going to be what you experienced and continue to choose to experience. Like 4:3 on a CRT? Great. Like 8:7 on an LCD? Great. Think literally anyone cares about your mental gymnastics trying to prove one or the other as objectively superior? Cope, dilate, etc....

>>6876248
looks better

>>6873598
I played it for the first time on a backlit GBA SP and it looked great to me.
>>6874160
Cope. The GBA version IS superior. Stop being so triggered by truth.

>>6873172
>WAHOO JUST WHAT I NEEDED OHHHNOOOOOO
>*completely butchered soundtrack*

This was how Nintendo played it

>>6873262
>where

>>6876646
lookin bad

8:7 even if the art isn't meant for it because uneven pixel scaling is more annoying than the minute difference in aspect ratio

>>6873172
This is my childhood.

If you're fine with stretching 8:7 to 4:3 then you should also be fine with stretching 4:3 to 16:9.

>>6880401
>Stretching 8:7 to 4:3 is what the developers intended
>Stretching 4:3 to 16:9 was never even a possibility the developers were aware of
Big fucking difference

>>6880551
They didn't intend it, they just didn't care. If they had intended it then they would have accounted for the distortion it causes.

>>6880573
It doesn't cause distortion

>>6880581
There are plenty of examples in the thread of the distortion it cause.

>>6880587
>mistaking soul for distortion
yikes

>>6880613
You're right. Stretching a 4:3 image to 16:9 is extremely soulful.

>>6880624
Nope. Literally the most zoomer move imaginable.

>>6880634
Correct. Here's a handy diagram for the zoom zooms in this thread that still don't get it.

>>6872460
Left. I was there, unlike 99% of this board. Left is what the aspect ratio looks like on an actual console and a tube tv

>>6873164
based
/thread and /argument forever

>>6874682
#knockout

First party nintendo titles shouldn't be run in 4:3

One thing that annoys me though, and I havent seen anyone point out, is the new game and watch has a stretched aspect ratio

>>6881721
Posting circles doesn't address the elephant in the room. Emulation started becoming a thing around 1997. You're telling me that the "right" way to view these games didn't exist before then? What did Nintendo expect people to play these games on?

>>6881770
When developing the games the software development environment had windows which displayed the full resolution of the games, in a mistake of hardware direction Nintendo targeted a unique aspect ratio for no benefit. This made more work for developers often in compensating for their art.

It looks like somewhere in between on my actual CRT, doesn't look like either of the pics from OP.
You can probably calibrate it to your liking if for whatever reason the image you're getting on your CRT isn't to your liking.

>>6881770
I played n64 at 83% speed on PAL consoles.
Is that the correct way for me to now play them?

>>6881721
>229x224
>4:3
uuhhg, anon, math doesn't work like that.
that's almost 1:1
also you should always use even numbers, floor the result.

>>6881770
And the correct way to view them did exist, it's just not everyone's TV displayed them correctly.

>>6881826
My mistake, it's 299. You can tell by looking at the image with your eyes for half a second that's not 1:1 and it's a typo :)

>>6881803
Wasn't the weird resolution picked for CPU reasons? The NES and SNES famously had less horsepower than their rivals so they had to cut corners where possible. They knew that a television wouldn't care and would just display whatever it was given. Yes, you end up with non-square pixels in the final image but that was a common thing in the arcades. Capcom's CPS1 and CPS2 used wide ass resolution to increase detail but still were displayed on regular 4:3 monitors in the cabinets.

>>6881831
Proper way is 256*8/7 for 292.

>>6881818
False analogy because the games were released elsewhere in proper form. Not compensating for the quirks of a specific region is not the same thing as "intending" a game to be played in a way that effectively doesn't exist.

>>6881827
How do you define "not everyone"? No consequential percentage of people were gaming on anything other than 4:3 standard definition consumer television sets.

>>6881831
I can tell is not 1:1, but check your math before posting.

>>6881843
that's a load of bull and gives an erroneous number that happens to fall near a proper aspect ratio.
want proof? try that same formula with any other resolution.

CRT calibration is a mess. Some had worse overscan than others, so it's not going to be exactly 4:3.

>>6881858
Hell, the game manuals themselves depicted 4:3 aspect ratios in the screenshots.

>>6881862
https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/43-87-aspect-ratio-correction-for-snes/#post-14140

I'll take FirebrandX's word for it over some anonymous shitposting nigger.

>>6881886
the 3ds virtual console uses 284X224, not that broken number gaybrandX spitted out.

>>6872460
Whoever keeps making these threads, stretch the 4:3 side wider each time.

>>6881902
Fixed resolution screens like the 3DS, which the games were never meant for, isn't a great comparison. When the games were made they expected everyone to use them on consumer CRTs so that's the way to determine what's "right." Anything else is accommodation.

>>6881902
It also uses the canoe emulator, which is laughably inaccurate and loaded with per-game hacks. Does this mean that said busted, zsnes-tier emulation is correct?

>>6881915
is exactly because of fixed resolution screens the reason we are here in this thread throwing numbers around anon.

>>6881917
emulation accuracy =/= aspect ratio

>>6881934
So you're willing to throw emulation accuracy out the window, but some arbitrary aspect ratio they decided on for one specific iteration of ports is gospel?

>>6881934
No, i get that the existence of fixed resolutions makes the issue relevant. It's just when it comes to deciding "intent" what Nintendo does on the 3DS is a bad point of reference.

>>6881939
what I mean is, in this topic it doesn't matter how shitty an emulator is codded as long as it gets the aspect ratio correctly.

>>6881947
And in what way exactly is that aspect ratio correct, my esl friend?

>>6881943
you got a point, but look, here is a comparison shot.
284 looks very alike while 292 looks a little too fat.

>>6881953
that's what we are trying to find out, my goalpost moving friend.

>>6882019
Anon, you do understand that ten different CRTs are going to display 10 different widths, right?

>>6882019
Also that's NES, the entire thread is about the SNES.

>>6882060
>the entire thread is about the SNES.
No it's about emulation.

>>6882065
No, it's about 8:7 vs 4:3 on the SNES. Are you retarded?

>>6882060
same aspect ratio.

>>6882043
then there goes all the discussion.
close the thread mods, there is no point to this.

>>6882076
That's how it always was anyway. These threads are just bait for emufags.
>taking this thread seriously.

>>6882086
I know it's a trap.
but the question still remains.
which specific aspect ratio the devs intended their games to be played on?

>>6882070
8:7 isn't a concern on real hardware, just emulation.

>>6882113
The concern is which aspect ratio is correct for the assets in question.What we have covered is that it appears that the assets were developed at 8:7, and almost never compensated for the 4:3 stretch, resulting in said assets being deformed.

>>6882118
Only an emulation problem, just use real hardware and the issue goes away. OP is even a comparison of two emulators.

>>6882151
I can't tell if you've never used a CRT and are woefully misinformed, or are just shitposting in bad faith.

>>6882179
I have a CRT to my left side as I type this and have used them every day since 1992. The 8:7 problem is just an emulator one.

>>6882184
So you're claiming that CRTs don't stretch the image?

>>6882193
Am I?

Okay, you're just shitposting. Glad we cleared that up.

>>6882193
Not him, but definitely not to the point OP's image does it.
Something about OP's pic looks wrong on the left too, too thin.
I think this kind of thread is mostly bad and bad faith shitposting anyway, from both sides.
I think games were supposed to be played on CRTs, where they look somewhere in between, not too narrow, not too wide either.

>>6873656
Ugh, you fuckers were a bigger mistake then the boomers. To bad your mom didn't have a coat hanger handy

>>6873684
Yup, it's gotten so good there's like 2-3 new games per year that's worth playing compared to like 50 for 16bit and 70 for 32bit. But you're right look at all those gigeltextures for a game that doesn't even have unique dungeon items unlike it's predecessors.

>>6873735
Sad but kinda true.

>>6882487
>there's like 2-3 new games per year that's worth playing
This is what happens when you go so far down the contrarian rabbit hole that you're incapable of discerning ironic shitposting from reality. Yikes.

>>6876646
Niiiiiiiiiicceeeeee

>>6872472
>>6874185
Has your country been to the moon yet?

>>6881834
Yeah pretty much. Funny how advanced Sega Genesis was despite being released earlier but didn't include vram like the Snes did, and funny how the Snes cut its vram in half and processor speed by 3/4ths before it's release. At least Sega managed to include a direct line to tv. If the Snes has one I'm not aware, so forever stuck in 256x224 and maybe 512x448 on a good day, where as pretty sure Genesis can pop 640x480 if it wants

>>6882574
has yours really

>>6872460
my PVM does both with a touch of a button

>>6882605
that's why they are pvmemes.

>>6876646
You need to be in a pitch black room to be able to properly see the picture, and even then, they still look like shit. My rich friend had one of those growing up, awful screen. I remember his dad inviting me and my dad over to watch baywatch on it one night like it was this big, amazing thing. Looked like shit.

>>6881834
On the subject of CPS stuff, Akiman actually produced specialized graph paper with rectangular cels to match how the pixels would be displayed on screen so artists could draw sprite lineart and keep track of the number of tiles used and such while working in the correct proportions.

>>6882576
Sega was always primarily an arcade manufacturer. The Genesis was engineered to be an affordable version of their arcade hardware. That's why prior to Sonic shifting the marketing gimmick the advertising was focused on being able to play your favorite Sega arcade games at home. So raw horsepower was the big thing to get right since without that you weren't porting shit with anything close to the arcade experience.

Nintendo opted for a shittier CPU because they knew that they could offload processing power onto the cartridges that needed it, which was pretty clever.

Sega's big fuck up was adding even more horsepower to the Sega CD, which didn't really need it, while foregoing a better PPU, which it desperately did. That could have made all the difference since one of the biggest problems the Sega CD had was the games didn't look that much better than the regular Genesis in screenshots. Reading a game magazine couldn't convey the CD audio but you certainly could compare a Sega CD game to Donkey Kong Country and notice one looks a lot more colorful than the other.

Why did Nintendo even settle on 8:7 if all TVs at that point were going to stretch it out to 4:3?

>>6881862
Youre arguing an irrelivent semantic, the aspect ratio has the same effect if its off by 1 pixel or even 10 pixels. It illustrates the same point.

>>6884003
Because native 320x240 was just too based.

>>6872485
>some games were slick enough to account for the stretching
I know of Chrono Trigger but is there a list of all the games which did this?

>>6881848
They didnt account for the quirk of your crt. Prove otherwise.

Genesis developers.

>>6884061
SNES developers.

>>6884061
>>6884064
Guess Sega does what Nintendon't

>>6884101
They certainly put in the effort to make sure their games looked their best on the type of consumer TVs everyone owned, going so far as to take the shitty signal of composite/rf and use it to create transparency effects that weren't possible on the hardware itself.

It's too bad the genesis has so few great games compared to the snes.

>>6884265
>It's too bad the genesis has so few great games compared to the snes.
Nah, you just gotta learn them.

>>6884272
It has the best castlevania (bloodlines), the best brawler (bare knuckle 2), and usually the best ports between the two systems, but I'm not big into arcade games in general.

>>6882574
Nobody cares about the moon, the only reason the moon was giving such importance is because it was the only thing that you could beat the commies on the space race.

>>6884287
It also has the best Zelda games like Landstalker, Crusader of Centy, Oasis and Monster World 3 and 4.

>>6884424
I've played through Landstalker and Crusader of Centy (ignore the shit filter, was still in an experimental stage). Landstalker is weird, it's kind of it's own thing, not a lot in common with zelda games outside of the protag's aesthetic. Weirdly good music for a genesis game too. Now Crusader of Centy is definitely a zelda clone, and I really enjoyed it, but ALttP and LA are better games.

>>6884287
Bloodlines is a good game, but not the best castlevania game, level design is actually the worst of the console classicvanias. Bosses are boring and slow. Andthe amount of slowdown is simply embarrassing.

>>6884024
Kirby's Adventure.

>>6884024
They "accounted" for the quirk of CRTs by virtue of knowing how the game would look when displayed on them. Whether they drew shit to be perfect circles and squares after the stretch is irrelevant given that they intended these things to be played on 4:3 TVs. Jesus, this is not complicated.

>>6884672
>They "accounted" for the quirk of CRTs by virtue of knowing how the game would look when displayed on them
Only in a tiny handful of cases across the library, a fraction of a percent.

>>6886338
Not even as many as that, I only ever see one game mentioned which did this

>>6872748
oh no

>>6886338
No 100% did. They all knew what the games would look like on a consumer TV. They knew it would stretch. Whether they cared or not is irrelevant. Whether they changed the artwork to account is irrelevant. They tested the games on 4:3 TVs, they sold the games to people to play on 4:3 TVs. If Mario looks fat well then they intended Mario to look fat because that was the display the game was made for.

>>6881721
you're not taking into account the physical curvature of a crt screen. the circle would appear perfectly round on a standard television from the time.

>>6886395
>They all knew what the games would look like on a consumer TV
They clearly didn't, I'm not sure why you're choosing this hill to die on.

>>6886409
In what universe do they not know? To believe this is to argue that they never saw a TV before. You have to understand that back in the days of analog there was no native resolution. They used this to their advantage by being able to make consoles pump out weird resolutions and the TV wouldn't care because the TV had no pixels. The fact that it stretched was the feature, not the bug. Capcom did the same thing in its arcade cabinets, just to the opposite effect--a super wide resolution that was squeezed into 4:3.

>>6886409
Show me an 8:7 television set. Ehy is this the hill YOU choose to die on?

>>6886434
>The fact that it stretched was the feature, not the bug
If that was true, it would have been effortless to squish their assets so they would be correctly stretched on consumer sets. But they didn't, because they were either A) unaware of this, or B) completely incompetent and didn't give a single fuck about the quality of the games.

>>6886409
There's been a few posts today with this zoomerish "hill to die on" phrasing and it's always defending something retarded. Is it a new thing on /vr/ or just one moron posting a lot?

>>6886452
The manuals themselves show 4:3 screenshots so A is impossible and laughably implausible for a dozen other reasons. And even if B is true that doesn't preclude the "intent" part. Maybe they were lazy and didnt want to be like Capcom and work with oblong pixels in their assets, maybe they didn't care for other reasons and only cared when showing a perfect circle actually mattered like in Kirby's Adventure's intro. Regardless, they still intended the games to be played in 4:3. Hate them for that all you want but that's just how it is. An analog television doesn't care about resolution, it just wants a signal at a frequency it understands. The resolution of the consoles was a "behind the curtain" thing and was decided on for several reasons, one of which for the NES and SNES is a lack of processing power.

>>6886476
>>/vr/?task=search&search_text=%22Die+on%22+hill
Could be one idiot but could be coincidence

>>6886476
>phrase that was in common use before you were born
>zoomerish
You just can't help but out yourself.

>>6873247
All gfx programs that were used to create low res pixel art in these days operated at a 320x200 resolution on a VGA or an (ntsc) RGB monitor. There's some weird techno babble about the aspect ratio behind it we don't care about, but these programs could not to perfectly round circles without compensation, e.g. turning on the round circles setting in the options. The effect can easily be replicated if you fire up dpaint for dos or amiga, or cloanto for 8bit.
The Snes is a 4:3 only console, and when ever you see an oval that is supposed to be round, the gfx artist just forgot to compensate for the stretch.

>>6886509
Popularity among zoomers is pretty clear:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%22hill%20to%20die%20on%22