/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6856951
Metroid: Other M. Star Fox Adventures. Star Fox Assault. For some reason most of Nintendo’s big budget second party/third party collaboration titles (i.e. games where they loan out their IP for a one-off) play like second rate experiences at best. And it’s not like Tecmo, Namco, and Rare make bad games, even. These are good companies that for whatever reason just couldn’t rise to occasion and deliver an experience worthy of the Nintendo name.

>>6856951
nintendo should stop outsourcing starfox

>>6856951
I blame Nintendo being quite hands off with the development of this game as well as the Namco team not really knowing what they were going to do with this title since at one point it was also supposed to be an arcade game. Compare this title with a similar game of a similar situation, F Zero GX, which despite it not being developed by Nintendo did grasp what made F Zero X so great and expanded upon it for what is widely thought of as thr Apex of the F zero series. In other words Namco wasn't a good company to make a star fox game for the GameCube and I wished another company like sega made the GameCube star fox instead

>>6857140
Only 2 games in the series were truly outsourced and they both were on GameCube. All the other titles were either collaborative or made in house.

>>6857025
Other M failed in part due to Sakamoto and his team not experienced in making 3D games and thus didn't know how to properly translate the 2D games he was involved with into 3D as well as putting too much emphasis on the cinematic. Star Fox Adventures was built off of Dinosaur Planet which from what I saw wasn't as impressive as other Zelda like games so how good that game truly could have been is debatable. Assault was just a mixture of some good ideas mixed with some bad ideas with terrible execution of those ideas.

>>6857216
command was also outsourced

>>6856951
the arwing parts were underwhelming for the same reason almost all starfox ripoffs are: they start with some high level spectacle concept and work down from there after plotting a fucking spline

the first two starfox games are so good because they were building upwards from the engine: the first seconds of every level and every segment and setpiece thereafter were hand-rolled, sequentially, to achieve effects and pacing from the player's perspective.
they had the technical advantage of the world not needing to exist beyond a hundred meters in front of the camera, so they never needed to decide what would be beyond there until the moment it appears, in range of the player and immediately relevant. so there's very few irrelevant elements and every time they added something they were thinking about that moment specifically.

this isn't intuitive from a modern design perspective. you'd need to actually think about this stuff and build it into the project design at a basic production level.

anyway, at least it had better multiplayer than halo.

>>6857269
>anyway, at least it had better multiplayer than halo.
I REALLY doubt that

>>6857268
Command was codeveloped by Q games and Nintendo. Imamura even was directly responsible for the story and cutscene art.

Assault killed the series until Star Fox 64 3D gave Nintendo hope in it again.

>>6856951
among the game's failures are
>dramatically short with not much replay value, no multi-route campaign (even a linear choice between 3 routes like the SNES game would suffice)
>no map to immerse you in the world or the ongoing war and instead just a shitty generic level select menu
>lackluster villain, the Aparoids only get interesting at the very end when there's a surreal dark horror element to them, should have had that from the very start
>the first time they completely fucked the characters beyond belief. Slippy being made not an annoying girl was a fine change in Adventure, but this gave us screechy faggot Leon, Texas bara bait Wolf, whatever the fuck Andrew's voice got turned into
>somehow against all odds the vehicles are absolute shit and control like they're in molasses, the on foot sections are legitimately better just for having snappy fast paced controls

About the only nice things i have to say about it are Space Armada is one of the finest StarFox levels, the music is good, and the multiplayer is somehow amazing.

>>6858306
I never found the multi-player to be anything amazing. Can you clarify a bit on why you think that?

>>6858312
It's fun, unique, and has a surprising amount of unlockables and variety. there's more shit in the multiplayer than there is in the fucking campaign.

also surfing your ship and sniping people on the ground is fun.

>>6858319
Don't a lot of other multi-player shooter games have all that and more?

>>6858330
The only games I know of where you can surf on aerial vehicles while using a sniper rifle are Battlefield games and for that you need to have a pilot and jump on the plane and not fall off.

>>6858319
Do all the unlockables in Assault compare to all the content you can get in all the other multiplayer shooters? From my experience the overall content is still lacking when you have everything

>>6858334
Standing on a small vehicle that only goes in a straight line doesn't sound that fun

>>6857347
It actually did though. You should invite over 3 of your many friends and try it!

>>6858658
I've done that years ago and none of us thought it was better than halo or call of duty or several other multiplayer games. One of them actually had a memory card with everything unlocked which I wasnt sure was from action replay or he bothered to unlock everything.

>>6857231
>Other M failed in part due to Sakamoto and his team not experienced in making 3D games
Bruh, it was made by Team Ninja. AFAIK Sakamoto was the only Metroid team member present.

>>6858263
You’re one of those special people who think only console titles matter, aren’t you? Or were you unaware of Starfox Command?

>>6858306
>Texas bara bait Wolf
Is this a reference to Matthew Gafford, or does Wolf actually sound like that in Assault and that’s where he got the voice? It’s been too long since I played Assault to remember any of the voices but Krystal’s (I remember being impressed the VA sounded reasonably close to Rare’s).

>>6859126
Star fox command was made because Dylan Cuthbert proposed star fox 1 working on thr NDS and at some point nintendo wanted them to make an entirely new game which became command. To my knowledge command didn't flop and had generally positive reviews. Command is also a cheaply made handheld title that didn't play like 64 so I dont even know how a game like that can solely bring down the series.

>>6858772
Yeah but see your posts are contradicting yourself so you're one hundred percent lying.
Also there's a weird dork doggedly arguing about the game in this thread in a really goofy way so I'm gonna assume you're just the same moron with an inexplicable opinion on a game you haven't played.

>>6859581
Yeah Command did fine and was pretty well liked. For some reason. I dunno what the deal is with spinoffs like that and Metroid Prime Hunters that seem to only exist to sadistically inflict wrist pain on people willing to do the same three fights over and over.
I played it too much.
Then Zero came along with more physically painful waggle shit. There's a pattern here.

>>6856951
This was the first time a bullet proof company let me down.

Bump

I fucking loved Adventures, Assault, and especially Command and love 64 and the original. 2 is my favorite of them all, however.

>>6856951
I thought the lack of on-rails levels was ridiculus. Fortuna, Asteroid belt, the end. And the ones we did get were like poor mans version of starfox 64. Wannabe Sector Z is called orbital gate. Sure compared to Adventures arwing levels thery're ok but what kind of standard is that? I mean starfox 1 on the SNES realistically has a claim to having better rail-shooting level design. There's no excuse for that. No onrails landmaster levels, blue marine is gone. Bosses are nowhere near as good as 64or even SF1. No branching mission options that the series had been known for up to that point. The third person shooting was weak. Find the targets. Very few real variations in formula from level to level. I think corneria has you sniping things in the air rather than blowing up the yellow spawn points, thats about it. The shooting from the wings missions were an ok idea, and the "Watch the meter" missions were a nice concept. But in practice both sucked, and the game couldn't even do what it was supposed to do well like rail-shooting and all range battles correct. Multiplayer was good but without online it was wasted.

>>6861006
How can star fox 2 be your favorite?

>>6861131
I dont get why people keep saying the multi-player was good, especially when you said before the third person shooting was weak. The only answers I've seen people give was because "it's fun", whatever than means.

>>6859806
What's contradictory about being in a situation where I was able to play Assault in a social event with several people and none of us found it that fun?

>>6859808
>This was the first time a bullet proof company let me down.
Nintendo or Namco?

>>6859806
Command despite people shitting on the story actually had a solid game mechanic and the gameplay was alright. Your painful experience sounds like the result of you not using the controls ergonomically or you play them for too long in one sitting. I rarely had wrist problems for thr DS once I figured out a more comfortable way to use the stylus and never had issues for the wii u gamepad motion controls. Zero also had no waggle shit so I think you never actually played zero and are just full of shit.

>>6859139
Wolf in Assault is what you see in the Smash Bros games, as opposed to his original glorious british bastard self from 64 (which finally made a return in the worst game ever made, Starfox Zero)

>>6861472
Wolf only had his Assault design in Brawl.

>>6861472
Zero is still better than Assault

>>6861489
He's kept the texas furry bait faggot voice and personality the whole time, even in Ultimate.
>>6861491
No. Assault is subpar and lackluster in most aspects but it is playable. Starfox Zero is in the running for being in the bottom 10 games Nintendo has ever released period for the controls alone.

>>6861508
The controls in zero are not only manageable but work really well for the gameplay it is catered to. The only real criticisms I have with them are the combo with the two analog stick input needed for u turns and somersaults which you can mistakenly do in the frantic heat of battle. There's already a button for those commands anyways so I never got that. In addition Zero for the vast majority of the game doesn't even require you to rely on 2 screens. I know you won't agree but when it comes to aiming I'd take the splatoon type of gyro aiming the gamepad has for zero over dual analog stick aiming, especially the subpar one Assault has with its dual stick option.

>>6861549
>The controls in zero are not only manageable but work really well for the gameplay it is catered to
Shouldn't you be busy ruining more franchises, Shiggy?

>>6861565
Thats the best retort you can come up with?

>>6858306
>the first time they completely fucked the characters beyond belief.
I agree, but I think Star Wolf was what suffered the most from this, but my main issue is with the voices rather than their characterization. The voices are fine on their own, but Pigma and Leon in particular are just the wrong voices for them and really kill what were the most entertaining members of Star Wolf for me. I also much prefer Slippy's girl voice, but his Assault voice isn't a bad way to go, either.

>>6856951
it was a multiplayer arcade game they had to retrofit into something like a normal star fox game after years of development.

>>6861580
How long, 2002?

>>6857025
>Metroid: Other M
To be honest, this was a legitimately good game once you take out the cutscenes. I had more fun with it than with Metroid Prime 3.

>>6862256
I wasnt a fan of how linear it was and how bland the game felt to play. Wasn't bad though, I so prefer MP3 over it still

>>6862256
Other M sucked gameplay wise too compared to the prime games. The prime games (except 3) were nonlinear and didnt do shit like lock doors to force you to advance in a linear fashion and essentially kill one of the core situations you encounter in metroid games, optional backtracking for retrieving nicknacks that you can now get with your new abilities.

>>6862256
This is correct. There’s nothing wrong with Other M except the atrocious story.

>>6862329
As someone like myself who doesn't dislike other M and beaten it fully, I have to call you out on this because Other M has a lot of problems with the core game. How major they are is up for debate but they are still there and in my opinion very glaring. One for me is the lack of missile and health pickups and you can recover some by standing still for long enough.

>>6862256
>>6862329
do you consider this piece of trash good as well?
and no, this is not Razor's Edge. This was made right after Other M's development, even adding some element into this pile of garbage.

Other M's gameplay basically a character action game without the Melee, even Bayonetta isn't exclusive on that either.

>>6857140
>nintendo should stop outsourcing starfox
they did
Command and Zero gameplay was by Shitendo themselves

>>6861491
Assault's multiplayer, control options, and introduction blows Zero out of the water.

>>6861549
>The controls in zero are not only manageable but work really well for the gameplay it is catered to.
so elementary children and people who actually bought a WiiU non-used
> I'd take the splatoon type of gyro aiming the gamepad has for zero over dual analog stick aiming, especially the subpar one Assault has with its dual stick option.
Zero's gyro is 5x times worse than Splatoon's and and its not much of a step up to 643D's gyro (which was only just an option, thank fucking god)

no wonder why this fucking franchise is dead as fuck.

>>6859581
Command was the worse selling Star Fox title before Zero came in

>>6862626
Someone controlling an arwing or something on the ground (walker or pilot) with zero controls will easily dominate over someone using assaults control scheme. I dont know what the hell you mean by introduction and for me I preferred the coop that zero offered. It's so good because it's fun

>>6862645
>Command was the worse selling Star Fox title before Zero came in
According to what, inaccurate VGChartz?

>>6862653
>I dont know what the hell you mean by introduction
the fucking start of the game
Assault started off strong with you going straight into some space armada fight and fighting some mimicry of the final boss of Star Fox until you get a taste of a new threat appearing the story.
Zero just rehashed 64's introduction again but DUDE TELEPORTALS LMAO.

the most dissapointing about Assault is how most othe game isn't like the start of the first level, just more multiplayer maps for all-range levels.

>I preferred the coop that zero offered.
that was dogshit as well and not worth the experience unless you're going one one the sectors and not the boring stealth levels.
Zero's Multiplayer was sacrified for this mediocre shit, i rather go play Guard.

>>6862640
>so elementary children and people who actually bought a WiiU non-used
What are you even trying to say?

And what made you say that zero's controls are only 20% as good as splatoon? They are basically the same control scheme except for a few button inputs swapped around. Zero even lets you reset the reticle like splatoon.

>>6862661
-didn't get a best-seller title
-didn't appear on Nintendo's fiscal year earning
-Nintendo long forgotten about that kursed piece of shit

>>6857216
Didn’t platinum make zero?

>>6862692
You sound like you've never played zero, especially with your comment about my thoughts on the coop. Assault fortuna stage despite it looking like a massive space battle is pretty tame with what is actually being thrown at you and the stuff you are actually able to destroy. Compare that to zero corneria stage which has more action happening with both the enemies and the enviroment. So Assault fortuna felt like a snooze cruise by comparison.

>>6862696
>What are you even trying to say?
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/shigeru_miyamoto_thinks_you_should_give_star_fox_zero_another_try

>And what made you say that zero's controls are only 20% as good as splatoon?
because its dogshit

>>6862704
I dont think Assault was mentioned in the fiscal year earnings either and player's choice doesn't really mean it sold well. You can check my claim by seeing all the GameCube games with player's choice and notice how several of the titles definitely didn't sell millions let alone a million copies.

>>6862709
they only made the assets
Zero was just Shiggy's Star Fox Wii project getting out of the planning stages.

>>6862728
What does that have to do with elementary kids owning a wiiU non-used

>>6862740
Does this mean that if nintendo wanted they could make a switch port of zero without platinum involved?

>>6862704
Wasn't 64 3D and before that Adventures the last star fox game that achieved that?

>>6862746
because stupid Miyamoto admitted he made Zero just for elementary kids instead of people who just want a new Star Fox game with 64's formula, not another retreaded do-over.

and he's wondering why people bitched about the game so much. nobody gives a shit about gimmicks and Star Fox 1's plot being retold over and over again.

>>6862752
they literally just said super-recently there's no plans to port Zero and they want to do a sequel if given the chance.
PLUS the fact the ENTIRE game is designed around the WiIU Gamepad, so it'd be a waste to even bother to port the game instead of taking Splatoon's route and do a sequel.

>>6862606
I never played any of the 3D Ninja Gaiden games, but I did hear that Metroid M plays similar to them.

>>6862321
>>6862315
I didn't mind that the game was linear, because it was more of an action game than an exploration one. Look at it like it's a beat'em up similar to Final Fight, mixed in with some basic puzzle elements and exploring. What I loved about the game were the controls, which I know a lot of people had gripes with. But I liked the non-analog controls mixed with the optional FPS aiming that locked you in place. Felt fresh and unique.

>>6862805
That was a gamexplain interview with platinum games. Not with nintendo.

>>6862758
Assault also gotten it before it got a Player's Choice re-release.

>>6862794
To be fair some people are too dumb to grasp the concept of this control scheme. Not saying they're actually good but it really isn't hard to figure out

>>6862823
still, zero isn't getting ported any time.
it's like asking for a color splash port, come on dude.

>>6862825
Player's choice is just a marketing ploy regional nintendo branches do to try and sell more copies. It doesn't reflect how the game actually performs, otherwise we'd have sales figures for games like Assault

>>6862831
or maybe people just prefer vanilla, instead of having to forcifully have to deal with something they're not comfortable with or just not their preferance.
like i tend to play with reverse camera controls, but some people rather do it normal. that's what control options are for.

and comments like that isn't going to magically make Star Fox sell millions again, it's just going to push Nintendo to bypass their creative fellow's needs and fucking shelve the series already.

see pic related

>>6862841
Player's Choice release after the N64, don't signify million seller or successful budget titles, hence why they have the Best Seller tag separate from it.

>>6862832
Color splash wouldn't be ported anytime soon even if nintendo wanted to since Oragami king just came out recently. I don't really see why nintenfo wouldn't make a port of zero. Porting wii u games is easy money for them and with thr pandemic I don't know how progress with making new games is working out for them.

>>6862863
Same difference. By what metric does a game need to get one of those?

>>6862854
That pic related was regarding star fox 64 3D and it was well recieved, otherwise zero and guard wouldn't have happened.

>>6862867
>I don't really see why nintenfo wouldn't make a port of zero
read my other previous post again
and unlike W101, the game didn't even get a cult following where millions of people want a polished port.
since both Color Splash and Zero were commerical flops, it'd be wise to do a sequel on the backburner. there's not in some sort of rush to bring back Star Fox even, it's always been that one major ip title Nintendo just slings out whenever they want.

>>6862883
Wasn't being on the wii u so late in its life a main reason why they flopped?

>>6862882
and guess what happend to Zero, it didn't get the same reception 643D had in return.
in fact, 643D had better reviews and praise.

plus a low budget AA 3DS remake doesn't need to sell like a million to be a success. Zero however was the opposite.
Guard was the spinoff packed in with Zero, so it's nothing relevant to topic. (plus its actually a good game)

>>6862891
even Samus Returns and Echoes did better than Zero, and those came even later.
FUCK even TMS did better than Zero, if it sold less than it should on avarage in japan, it might've been a confirmed flop.

>>6862892
I still stand by the possibility that zero may get ported since it is a game that can be reworked for switch, can have a lot of the major complaints addressed, and may be their way to see if there's still any interest in the series and if it failed was indeed due to thr wii u with them putting less money into porting over zero than making a brand new game that costs more and could also flop like zero.

>>6862904
That isn't a fair comparison since the 3ds has a much larger install base and both those series, fire emblem since awakening, have been selling better per title than the star fox series.

>>6862912
a new sequel is more likely to see better success than the WiiU gamepad that refused to move pass its repeats and give the player some convience to enjoy the gameplay, not adapting to it like its some serious competitive jank.

also as long Miyamoto's meddling isn't in the way of things, like with 643D, which was done by the guy also responsible for Comand mind you

in fact, Nintendo might as well seen that after the Star Link crossover, going to Tecmo again for another musou game (got scrapped sadly, probably wasn't gonna be a good idea), and them sending fake news to insiders which got people interested if people are still interested for more Star Fox games.

>>6862925
>That isn't a fair comparison since the 3ds has a much larger install base and both those series,
all of them are just retreads of the originals and being on the WiiU wouldn't make much of a difference, i say its a fair comparision.
> fire emblem since awakening, have been selling better per title than the star fox series.
TMS was one of the recent console FE games before 3H Houses that wasn't doing as expected for major release. If that was a major title, that would be seens as harsh flop like the Tellius games or Tharcia 776.

>>6862975
What is TMS? And like I say even if they're remakes, more popular series tend to have those games sell better than star fox.

>>6863004
>What is TMS?
a false advertising that went really really wrong

from this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK5-EIzDtKo
to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fS24IxelBA
to THIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFxSmIMQ76s

>>6863058
I'm a fan of fire emblem and even I didn't know what the hell this game was supposed to be about.

>>6863073
it just a Persona story with FE elements (mostly from the Archanea games)
pretty cringe i tell you

>>6863084
I didn't even like the persona games so I'll take your word

>>6862728
How is dogshit a metric for 1/5th as good?