/vr/ - Retro Games

It's good in the same way any sequel is good.

Re-used=/=re-hashed

because the zelda dev team had been working on a game for fucking ever and this was probably where all the crazier OoT ideas wound up

Rehash a good game, and you'll get a good game.

but it will never be better than its source material

Never.

The reused assets are inconsequential stuff, like NPCs and item models. Hell, even for items that were the same between the two games, some of the models were changed. They added FAR more stuff than they reused.

>>681524

But Majora's Mask is better than Ocarina of Time

>>681540

You are literally incorrect.

>>681534
You are objectively wrong on the internet.

>>681540
Whoa there, buddy

It seems that *you* are the one who is objectively wrong on the internet

>>681524
A better story with a better theme and better items with practically the same gameplay.
How is OOT better?

>>681502

Because they saved time by using reused assets, as that's not really a negative in any way.

Because this man handled it

>>681578
This definitely. Zelda hasnt been the same since he left.

I love this game to death, but it has wind waker esque flaws that did come from development time. I wish it had a few extra dungeons.

That being said, atmosphere is the name and it really can't be matched in the series except maybe in link's awakening.

>>681569
>saved time

>Majora's Mask

heh

>>681665
>I wish it had a few extra dungeons.

i wish they'd start putting more post-game/optional content in Zelda, the closest recent example I can think of is the gauntlet style dungeons in WW and TP, but how about something like the Color Dungeon in Link's Awakening or maybe unlocking 'Master Quest' style versions of each dungeon?

It kinda makes sense that this game was made in a year, being that it is one of the most experimental Zeldas. They probably completed the main quest in a few months (which is like 15 hours of game time) then just screwed around for the rest of the year, adding random sidequests and whatnot.

>>681651
But all of the games are rehashes, anon.

>>681502

Nintendo only gave them a year to make the game, so they basically had to res-use assets, and then they spent their time on 4 extremely detailed dungeons and a ton of sidequests.

For some reason I feel Majora's Mask was closer to the original Legend of Zelda than Ocarina of Time ever was. OoT was extremely linear when you think about it, but the sidequests in Majora's Mask could be done in just about any order and so many of them were surprisingly doable after just getting your Ocarina back. It's just that much more open.

>>681665
Being so short is the main flaw with the game, but if they had waited too much it may had flopped like all the other games released towards the end of the generation.

>>681651
I don't know what the fuck Miyamoto was thinking when handing it over to Aonuma, Koizumi had been with the series for years and knew all the ins and outs along with what made the games great.
I mean I love what he did with Mario Galaxy but he should've stayed with Zelda

>>681704
It's funny how the "alternate version of Hyrule" setting doesn't just cover up, but is actually enhanced by the "reused assets" production.

Like, it's one thing with LttP's Dark World telling you it's Bizarro Hyrule, but seeing the characters in MM in totally different roles from the game you played through the year before kinda drives home the point both that they're linked, and the game's theme of how little things can result in big changes.

>>681534
As true as that is, wasn't it Mario 64's?

>>681684
Nice. Almost didn't catch that masked humor.

It begins.

>>681690
A second, harder quest, Zelda 1 style would be great.

I can do without half-assed attempts like the color dungeon, though. Thing was too easy, too small, too boring. I mean, even more so than the regular dungeons.

>>681502
because it did something different, rather than vomit OOT into a new engine and call it a sequel.

>>681902

oh absolutely, with the color dungeon i was referring to its placement, you can potentially miss the entire thing and you can also do it at multiple points in the story.

>How the hell did this turn out so good?

It didn't. Majora's Mask is the worst Zelda.

>>681742
That was always one of my favorite parts. It gives the entire game this eerie, unreal quality if you're familiar with OoT. A sort of topsy-turvy Wonderland-ish feel. The entire game feels like an extended dream sequence.

>>682025
Now, anon, both you and I know that just isn't true.

>>681578
>Look up all the games he worked on
>Every single one's development that he was heavily involved in has been terrible

Yeah, no. He's almost as bad as Aonuma.

>>681502
>How the hell did this turn out so good?
It didn't. It was a mess.

MM was when Aonuma, that Igarashi of Nintendo, started cloning Ocarina while keeping the bad and leaving out the good.

>>682035
I'd rather play the CD-i games than Majora's Mask.

>>682034
>Every single one's development that he was heavily involved in has been terrible

>Link's Awakening
>Mario 64
>OoT
>Smash Bros.
>Mario Sunshine
>Wind Waker
>Mario Galaxy

>>682046
How can you have such shit taste?

>>682051
Got a point or just fond of lists?

>>682082
I'll let you extrapolate the point on your own.

>>681902
>he doesn't know about the Wind Waker remake
I'm excited for exactly this reason.

>>682071
How can you?

>>682051
>Link's Awakening
He just wrote the story, he didn't have any actual hand in its development.

>Mario 64
>OoT
>Smash Bros.
>Mario Sunshine
>Wind Waker
>Mario Galaxy
Shitty games.

The reused NPCs add to the surreal atmosphere

>>682090
If it's like OoT3D, it won't have much new, nothing to get excited over.

>>682105
They've said multiple times that they are adding all the stuff that was left out due to the development, mainly, the tri-force hunt and the extra dungeons+underwater hyrule.
Unless they're flat-out lying, I'm excited.

>>682098
>opinions

>>682119
>underwater hyrule

>>682119

YOU'RE LYING
STOP TOYING WITH MY EMOTIONS

>>682136
>>682143
These are my responses too. I'm too excited, and if they're lying/"enhancing the truth" I'm going to be crushed.

>>682123
>>682034
Well that's a shame, it was a good couple of months but /vr/ has finally turned into /v/.

In my head the development went something along the lines of seeing what features they had in OoT but never used, hence the time system and formed the game around this and the re-useable assets, instead of creating the story from scratch and putting in the systems. And I think that's why it worked out better, as later games have probably done the opposite.

>>682208
>Well that's a shame, it was a good couple of months but /vr/ has finally turned into /v/.
Fucking hell.
Where are the mods when you need them?

>>682119
>They've said multiple times that they are adding all the stuff that was left out due to the development

Source? I'd actually be excited if that was the case.

>>681684
>>681569
They sort of did. Reusing assets also means the placeholders are rather decent, so you could afford to avoid replacing it when the deadlines came around.
And because the engine was already developed, they skipped engine debugging stage as well. Which saved tons of time.

>>681665
Yeah, the dungeons. So good, yet too few.

>>681502
>How the hell did this turn out so good?

Because making good video game is more about design than art assets. That's why games that look like shit can be better than games that look great. (Compare Too Human to any classic retro game for a good example.)

To be fair, if you look at it on paper, Majora should've been absolutely awful.

It is a mishmash of elements they didn't include in Oot due to time and memory constraints. And it had very little development time as a single, cohesive experience. And yet it worked, in my opinion, fantastically.

>>682098
Riiiiggghhht. Why don't you go back to /vg/ and argue in League of Legends thread number 98383837283234?

If you don't dig Nintendo games, I suppose that's fine, but don't call good games shitty because you're a Xbox fan.

>>682119
So, that weird destroyed island will actually have something to do on it?

>>682098
>says that good games are shit
>oh so edgy
>1/10 for getting me to reply

>>681578
Based Koizumi needs to write the next Zelda. What I would give for another Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask in tone.

>>682235
I don't/can't have a source, it's just something I heard. It might of been from Nintendo Direct though. Sorry.

commitment and good ideas

>>682098
>Shitty games

>>682358

Massive gayness right here.

>>682595
>my dad works at nintondo

>>681502
>>tons of reused assets
You just answered your own question. They had time to focus on a lot more stuff.

There's a 3DS remake one day, right?

R-right?

>>683749
No more remakes/ports pleaes stop

>>683754
>not wanting something golden to become gold-plated
dude do you even profitable market tactics?

I have this ready for just such occasions:

I hated Majora's Mask. I hated the three day time limit because I felt it didn't allow me to explore at my leisure. I hated having to wait in places for shit to happen and I didn't give a shit about the NPCs or their "stories". I hated how you had to be a shitty Deku Scrub in the beginning, limiting your ability to explore and fight. The entire game felt like one big sidequest that I had to complete just to get back to Hyrule and play a good Zelda game. And before anyone brings up other Zelda games not taking place in Hyrule, I don't like any of the non-3D ones besides LttP and Minish Cap anyways.

I hate MM

>>683858
>I don't like any of the non-3D ones besides LttP and Minish Cap anyways.
lol

>>683870
>You shit on mah childhoods

>>682136
>>682204
>>682143
Nintendo would never in a million years add so much new content in their ports or remakes. It's not the '90s anymore. Super Mario Bros. DX for GBC was the last time they ever cared about remakes.

>>682208
Getting mad because people keep calling your favorite games shit? 4chan was made to keep people like you away, you know. It's time to get with the program.

>>683872
Now when did I say that?

>>683902
it was ....
>IMPLIIIIIIIIED

>>681753
that was terrible, I'd expect a carlos image to be in conjunction with that lame joke.

>>682098
>shitty games.
C'mon, your logic is quite sub par if you're going to go down this root where you avoid the argument by dismissing the games outright,
and if you're serious about calling ALL of those games shit I don't think you're on the right board.
this is retro video, not hypsters hypstering hypsters general.

I was just thinking about that the other day, OP.

I think a lot of it is just how good the game it recycled was.

>>682071
he's either rusing you or you've met the evil twin of Gordon Ramsey, and he's interested in videogames.

>>681559
More dungeons, better music, more being first.

>>683950
I find OoT to be similar to aLttP, not a lot outside of the main quest, a bit of secrets but nothing too big.
MM is like...I can't find a good comparative at the moment. It didn't focus on adding so much dungeons, rather it worked on making them well/complex. And than they designed the world's atmosphere (which was done much better than OoT) They put a lot of detail into little things (like the swordsman in the last 6 hours) and sidequests (Aniju and Kafe)

it just fits in very will and it really gives a lot of example on how different actions can affect the game differently and how you play it, it combines re-playability with lots of tasks that change the world around you. The Limit of the dungeons was intention I think, to make room for more things for people to find, rather than force people to do.

>>683969
was the intention*

>>683969
You can't find anything to compare it to because it's a unique masterpiece.

>>683969
You don't have to sell me on MM. You just have to sell me on liking it more than OoT.

And maybe Metroid Prime, and then probably not any other game I've ever played.

>>683994
OoT felt...empty for me. Aside from all the stuff they programmed in to FORCE me to do the only other thing you can really do is the Sword Fetch-quest and while that was a nice change of pace...it wasn't well thought out, it was simply a race.
The running man is poorly implemented and serves no purpose other than to red-herring. The overworld is bland and empty.

There wasn't a LACK of things to do in OoT, there was enough going for it with it's main quest and basic side missions to get better gear like bomb bags and such it just didn't have any...complexity to it.
In MM it was the opposite, the dungeons, while not so numerous, made up for that with the amount of sidequests you had to do. Ranging from the mundane (the dancing guy) to the complex (the Mailman hat), plus all that collecting payed off in the end with the fierce deity mask.

The Plotline in OoT isn't up to par in terms of originality, it was the same old "save the princess) and your centralized task was to do just that, save the princess.
MM is unique, like LA in some sense in terms of it's uniqueness. It's serious tones were implemented more effectively and the Easter Eggs were more numerous and delicious. The plotine still revolved around saving the day, but you had a LOT of range while you do so. You are essentially the fixer, helping people with their problems. MM invested a lot more effort as well. (the scene between the little kid and the zombie'd dad is one of the few times a videogame has made me cry)
it also doesn't hold your hand nearly as much, which I enjoy.

>>684030
>he hasnt beaten the running man to gain entrance to the unicorn fountain behind jabu jabus area.
Fucking pleb, go kill yourself.

>>684049
I know you're trolling
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Running_Man

>>684057
also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm3__YdSncQ

>>684030

TLDR no one cares

>>684083
>>>/v/

>>684083

At least he made up his mind and shared thoughts about something instead of just calling it gay.

Nobody cares for this childish shit of yours. Get lost and don't come back.

>>684085

>>684106

No it isn't. How else will they know that their behavior isn't tolerated here?

People should let them know and pronto. Fuck you

>>684112
fair enough.

I just don't want to deal with people with that mentality, than I have to realize that it's summer on 4chan.

back on the subject of zelda. Zelda 2, opinions?

>>684030
I don't disagree with anything you said.

Didn't sway me, but I should acknowledge your make your case well.

Earthbound tier fans

>>684141

truly

the worst part is that they can't make an argument for why their game is good without trying to shit up other games in the process

I can't tell if this is a /vr/ thread or not.

Guess the theme of all the shitheads coming here on the weekends holds true.

>>684180
maybe because it's rather hard to have something be "objectively" better than something else, so we compare it to other things to find the better of two.
learn to comparative analysis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LALLNQ5JC4

do u agree with him

Not trying to shit on the game because it really is quite decent, but it does feel rushed. It's pacing story wise is pretty awful compared to OOT and it shows. I have to give credit for using a lot of the same things and still making it feel more original. I can't picture one location or part of either game which is so similar I can't differentiate. For example, both games have forests/woods but they are all quite different from each other. The dungeons also felt way different.

To me it didn't turn out amazingly. It's okay but other than the whole mask system that transforms link (Kirby elements in my Zelda? Hell yeah.) it isn't a game that strikes me as amazing.

>>682051
So much summer

>>681519

I can only imagine how glorious it'd be to have them both as a single game.

>Defeat Ganon
>Cinematics show how you lost Navi
>You're now chasing Skull Kid
>IT'S A WHOLE FUCKING GAME AFTER GANON

That would've made my childhood brighter. At least Okami managed to pull something like that.

but it's not good at all. in fact it's absolute shit.

>>681502
>only a year of development
>tons of reused assets
Sounds like twins to me.

>>681502
>How the hell did this turn out so good?

It wasn't good, though.

>>682024
The same is actually true for OoT's well.

>>689557
It was better than OOT.

>>682243

>the joke


>your head

>>690895

>thinking one is better than the other

Not everything has to be the best or worst you know? things can be equally good

>>690901
But it was better.

Not everything has to be equal you communist.

>>683950
the use of colors on MM is way more creative than on OOT, and termina is much more interesting than hyrule

however MM does suffer for being so short, but maybe its better that way considereing they only had 1 year to make the game and they focused those 4 dungeons to be best as possible to some extent while still keeping everything else in balance

>>693905
The great bay temple was dog shit, though. Quite possibly the least pleasant dungeon in any Zelda.

>>693926
I say otherwise. Great Bay Temple comes second best in my order of favourite to least favourite for the 4 dungeons in MM.

>>681502
The greatest 3D Zelda game ever

>>682235
There was some thing that said Nintendo wanted to make it the best version of the game, and they were going to include a shitload of cut content like items and unused dungeons, but it turned out to be bogus.

>>694035
Well, there's no accounting for taste.

Or lack thereof.

>>694149
I hardly think taste comes into it.

What exactly didn't you like about the dungeon? I thought the puzzles were clever and the swimming and changing currents to be an interesting mechanic. The music in it is one of my favourites from the game, too.

>>681502
I don't like it that much because I'm not into Zelda for characterization nearly enough to put up with the overworld, dungeons, maskathon, etc. which are in my opinion not enjoyable. Also the game takes way too long to start like most Aunoma Zeldas. However I can understand why one might like it, it has great characterization like I said.

As for why it's one of the best 3D Zeldas, I'd say it has very poor competition and thus is in the top by default. I personally have always preferred the 2D games, much more unique and interesting between the different games.

Because they actually gave a fuck about making a good game

>>682098
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Do go on, I'm listening to your wisdom.

I don't know. Looking at the conditions it was made in it really is a miracle the game turned out as well as it did.

If only they were given more time to polish the game and fix the numerous flaws that made it inferior to OoT