/vr/ - Retro Games

Dragon Quest. Toriyama's drawings > those faggy tryhard watercolors

>>6799351
They both have plenty, but Dragon Quest also has a sense of adventure and some actual gameplay to boot. You explore shit, solve puzzles--DQ is just much more of a game than even the old FFs, let alone gen 5 and onward.

>>6799351
>1-3
Dragon Quest
>4-7
FF
>8
Dragon Quest
>9
FF
>11+
Dragon Quest

>1
Ff
>2
Ff
>3
Dq by a million
>4
Ff
>5
Dq by a million
>6
Ff
>7
Dq
>8
Dq
>9
Dq by a million
>11
Dq but FF X shits all over mmo dq

>1
Ff
>2
Ff by a million
>3
Dq by a million
>4
Both are trash
>5
Ff by a million
>6
Ff
>7
Dq
>8
Dq
>9
Ff by a million
>11
Dq but FF X shits all over mmo dq

Dragon quest iii is the best jrpg ever made. Its almost perfect

>>6799445
False.

>>6799473
True.

>>6799351
>Which series has more soul?
Throughout its early years, SquareSoft's business strategy consisted almost solely of stealing other people's ideas. Many of its first efforts were inferior copies of other games, which might have been why the company performed so poorly to begin with. Final Fantasy itself was a Dragon Quest clone that never would have existed had Enix not broken the mold. But the difference was that it was the first time one one of Square's ripoffs was an improvement on the original. Not that that in itself was some momentus achievement, mind you. Dragon Quest is something like a Ford Model-T within the video game sphere: innovative, popular, and tremendously influential, but ultimately a damn jalopy.

I've taken some flak for badmouthing Dragon Quest before, but let's face it: as far as the earliest installments are concerned, there's really no contest. Final Fantasy is the superior software. It's got better music, more items, more spells, more monsters, a richer world, and a more interesting storyline, and this is all just quantitative. Final Fantasy's customizable four-man crew eclipses the first two Dragon Quests' one and three-character parties. The expanded and improved turn-based battle system makes for a deeper game, inasmuch as the player isn't sitting around drooling for hours at a time while his one character trades 1 HP blows with a single monster. The concentration of early-genre bullshit is significantly reduced: there isn't as much EXP grinding, the player doesn't have to buy or find keys to open a hundred thousand locked doors, and never has to stress over how many torches he's got left. There's none of that "press the A button and select the 'Stairs' command to walk down a flight of stairs" nonsense, either. Dragon Quest may have come first and concocted the JRPG, but Final Fantasy made it good.

>>6799351
>1
FF
>2
Both are shit
>3
Dq by a million
>4 - 11
Dq wins by default since it doesn't has the shitty atb system

>>6799841
>ATB hater

Not again.

>>6799873
It's the most shitty way in existence to make turn based more "action like"

>>6799772
FF
>Music
Mostly a complete rip off of modern renditions of classical music.
>Items
That do literally nothing half the time or are never needed.
>Spells
What? Both DQ and FF have almost the exact same formula when it comes to spells besides Frog or something pointless like that.
>Monsters
I will give it that, Dragon Quest definitely lacks in variety.
>Richer World
50/50 for me, not much differences in in both series.
>Storyline
The only FF story that is interesting is FFIII and FFV.

Dragon Quest is Tradition.
Final Fantasy is Pop Culture.
Thats pretty much it, both have some similarities and are completely difference beast on their own.
I prefer Dragon Quest more cause it still stick to mostly Fantasy settings and atmosphere well Final Fantasy is all over the place and throws in random SciFi or other non traditional Fantasy settings.
Too this day Final Fantasy V intro for the Super Nintendo is one of my all time favorites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1z1RTUDhNk

>>6799351
final fantasy because it tries to do it's own things with every game instead of having to copy the same archaic design ideas of some guy in the 80s who liked wizardry for a modern game that came out in 2020. even the aesthetic of dragon quest is done better by the ivalice games of FF.

with that said dragon quest 3 is probably better than every final fantasy game, shame the rest of the series isn't nearly as good

>>6799982
>FFIII

>>6799473
>final fantasy 4
>trash
how can you love dragon quest but not love ff4
>>6799772
dragon quest itself is a copy of wizardry just like final fantasy 1 is, saying one game is unoriginal is missing the point.

>>6799427
/thread

>>6800018
Dumbest take on this board

>>6800028
The Story in Final Fantasy 4 is fucking dogshit.

>>6799351
Dragon Quest because it stays true to it's roots, in ff half the games could be their own ips and you wouldn't notice, they don't even share gameplay in common later on, this is why you see many ff fans only liking one game and ignoring the others

>>6800045
Not an argument, just white noise shitposting.
What's soulful about dragon quest 11 still having the same retro sound effects and a bunch of other "remember OLD game???" features. there's nothing soulful about one of the biggest companies in the world tucking you under a nice big blanket of nostalgia, it's just pandering. dragon quest is too iconic for it's own good and hasn't been able to truly innovate it's own series in any way since the early 90s because changing anything about it's core design would be the same as changing a bible verse. much like religion all that's changed with dragon quest over the years is that they've watered down the message/made the game easier in order to spread the faith to has many people as possible.

>>6800060
final fantasy 4 is one of the first and still one of the best examples of a jrpg using it's gameplay to tell a story. both in terms of details like tellahs MP amount and level ups or cecils entire segment where he walks to mt ordeals to become a paladin, to having every "action" scene take place in the combat system itself, even if most of them you just watch other people attack instead of giving commands.

it's very interesting. it wouldn't work as a novel but video games aren't novels, they're video games. a good video game story needs to take advantage of what the medium can uniquely provide and FF4 does this in spades

>>6800073
If it isn't broken don't fix it, ff shit the bed with atb, then fixed it with X then shit the bed again

>>6800104
Why even make new dragon quest games instead of just re-releasing dragon quest 3 and 5 then? If you're not actually going to change anything and encourage stagnation, just make increasingly prettier versions of those games with more content. I'm not being an asshole here, genuinely why not just do that instead of bothering to come up with slightly new reasons for someone who looks like gohan to hit the same slimes with a stick while backed up by that girl with pigtails?

>>6799427
Indisputable

>>6800018
What's the best way to play DQ3?

>>6800151
Play any remake. SNES and GBC have their own upsides and downsides. Mobile versions are the SNES version with a weird filter. Just don't play the original.

>>6800132
>instead of just re-releasing dragon quest 3 and 5 then?
Is this supposed to be bad? A remake of the two best games would be goat
Also
>every new game must be dynamically different to the point you could change the IPs name
No fuck off, the whole "all dq games are the same" it's from retards that didn't play the games there is big enough difference in the games to make some people prefer one over the other, someome that likes III and IX will hate VII for example, in fact XI was fucking lackluster because it tried to be a character oreinted DQ like IV and VIII instead of a class oriented one

>>6800151
the snes version. it's """easier""" than the nes original which makes some purists a little mad, but that mainly comes from stuff you can just ignore via houserules (don't use your new bag to carry more items to hold 99 healing herbs, just put all the plot items in there) and it otherwise expands on the gameplay in great ways with stuff like new classes, spells and even full on areas without changing anything in the game itself to be different/easier (like a lot of other remakes of old jrpgs)

the nes and the gbc versions are a little too rough visually for my taste, altough I think the gbc version technically has the most content with a few more areas.

>>6800132
You play games in a long-lasting series when/if you want that particular experience. When you want something different and new, you play something different and new. What you're advocating is actually trying to put the entire gaming experience into a series via constant evolution, change and variation, which is THE terrible idea. Branch out of your favourite series for novel experiences, come back for another taste of the tried and true.

>>6800073
To be far, FF ended at 9 and DQ ended at 8.
I will reinstate my post by saying DQ follows a traditional approach and is just more of the same with slight twist thrown in but nothing to crazy, which is still enjoyable. FF is much more experimental and avant-garde, which is hit or miss for me personally.

>>6800169
>>6800191
I'm not saying every game is the same, but if you honestly think dragon quest isn't deliberately keeping itself On Brand in certain ways because of how big of a deal it is to certain people then you're just being silly.

For whatever reason, they've yet to make a dragon quest game with a similar "make your own party" mechanic that's better than dq3, so why even bother trying? Just remake that game so it isn't stuck on the fucking gameboy color as the most content filled version.

If they can't make a game better than dq3, they should probably not make more dq games and instead do something else, but because a lot of people sitting in a boardroom get a lot of money every time something with the words "dragon quest" on the box is released that'll never actually happen. enix is so busy chasing that dq3 dream that they'll never actually make another dq3 (in the sense of a game that revolutionary) while they're busy making sure that every new dragon quest game Feels Like A Dragon Quest Game.

You can absolutely go retarded with this, like all those edgy western reboots of series inafune put out, but being too incestuous with your IP isn't good either.

>>6800094
Omfg FF4 take advantage of the medium for telling a fucking stupid story of fake deaths, and a retarded mind control plot, because now Kain is good, now is Bad, now is good again, now is Bad again, now is good again.

Do you want to talk about the use of the medium in FF4? Let me tell you about the use of the medium on FF4.

When I had Kain in my Party, in the Underworld, I equipped him with the Poison Axe since it seemed like a very cool weapon to me and I had Cecil using the Excalibur, well after you defeat the wall demon and get the last dark crystal, the Game decides that it is time to take Kain from your party and he becomes bad again, because you know, they needed to make a space in the Party to put FuSoYa there later.

Then when I get Kain back, he didn't have the stupid Poison Axe, I mean, I lost it forever, with everything that I equiped to him, because this "Kain" that joins you at that point, is actually another character, who joins you in level 35, so if for some reason you decided to level up your previous Kain to a Level greater than 35, then you lost that Kain forever.

The thing is, because of this, Kain was the highest level character in my game, you know what I decided to do? fucking kill the stupid Kain because he decided that I don't like him, and I leveled up the rest of the characters in my party, so that they had a higher level than Kain that sucks dicks.

Do you know what would have been interesting? That they would touch on the subject that Kain had darkness in his heart because he was in love with Rosa and kept it as a secret for years because Cecil, instead of being a subject that is mentioned between the lines and is never touched again, something like that It would have been more interesting than a stupid gimmick that Tellah becomes weaker when he levels up to represent that he is old, I mean yes Tellah loses strength when he got levels and what? His HP continues to increase, what a contradictory use of the medium.

>>6800210
> they've yet to make a dragon quest game with a similar "make your own party" mechanic that's better than dq3
IX already exists and is getting a remake

>because a lot of people sitting in a boardroom get a lot of money every time something with the words "dragon quest" on the box is released
At least the game inside it's actually Dragon Quest, i can't say the same about a franchise that's turn based, then action then sci-fi then a mmo

>>6800212
this is an awful lot of words for "kain gave me some generic weapon that I had an attachment for and then threw it away when he betrayed me, like he already has a half dozen times, so I'm mad at FF4"
I'm sorry for your loss but you're saying "why isn't the game from 1991 that fits on a snes cartridge able to account for every last option, you're nitpicking.

for the record kain being into rosa is made more explicit in every version of FF4 that isn't the watered down original western snes release, including the GOAT ds remake

>>6800210
Be that as it may, it makes sense for games in the series to be similar and for people to learn to branch out to other series and stand-alone games for fresher experience. It makes little logical sense for games in a single series to be extremely different. When games are different, THAT'S when corporate interest has taken hold. That, or an auteur was disallowed to make a new IP and had to make do with the old one.

>>6800234
dragon quest 9 is a lot more linear, constantly cockblocks you actually playing the game with generic story stuff (that it can't actually make interesting because it barely has party members with a personality due to being more about building characters) and has mmo jank because it was the prototype for the actual mmo

>>6800234
final fantasy was always sci-fi. the first game has a mecha as the ultimate boss

>>6800210
If DQ3 is 10/10 and DQ13 is 9/10, who the fuck am I to scoff at it? N not being as good as M doesn't make N bad.

>>6800235
My point is, the story is Retarded, AND the ''use of the medium'' is just a stupid gimmick here.

>>6800234
Really? The garbo is being remade? For the Shitch, I'd wager?

Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Star Ocean 2nd Story, Romancing Saga III and Secret Of Evermore are better the entire FF/DQ series anyways. Where is that Shin Megami Tensei fag who comes and shits on everyone when it comes to jrpgs anyways, WE NEED "HIM" RIGHT NOW

>>6800245
>dragon quest 9 is a lot more linear
True but you grottos and the post game make up for it, i can't say the same for the other 8 games in the franchise that aren't 3, more freedom than 3? No, more freedom than 4-11? Yes

>can't actually make interesting because it barely has party members with a personality due to being more about building characters
VIII babies always crying muh characters killed the series

>>6800251
Some games are much more explicit with it than others

>>6800279
What comes after the number VIII anon?

>>6800281
Star Ocean, really?

>>6800282
Ah, alright, I thought it was actually being remade for real.

>>6800290
REEENNNNAAAAA, Just 2nd Story, I have never played any other games in the series.

>>6800321
Well, and I haven't played the 2nd Story, so you get a pass, but have you played DQ3 and 5 for that matter? You gotta admit that the pinnacles of the series are very good games.

Both series are full of boring dungeons that have zero sense of danger or disorientation that any good dungeon should have.

>>6800346
...says a fucko who's played a few of FFs and certainly not a single DQ.

>>6800339
Dragon Quest 3 is still the greatest jrpg of all time according to Japan, so I will not debate that and I have played through it 5 times on the nes and 3 on the snes. As for 5 I have only given it 2 playthroughs and I didn't get it. It was okay, but nothing really stood out. It is my same experience with Earthbound and Mother 3 both didn't really give me any lasting impressions.

>>6800356
Played all of them, actually. You think these games have good dungeons but that's because you've never played Wizardry.

>>6800358
Two fucking playthroughs? That's more than enough. If you didn't like it, fine, but you gotta see how it's a very special game in its own right, easily on par with other pinnacles of 90s JRPGs.

>>6800378
I felt Dragon Quest got really scattered after 3, the story of 5 was okay but I just can't bring myself to any form attachment to the characters and building your own family in a video game.
>>6800374
>muh dungeons
Go play jank garbage like Daggerfall wiz virgin fag.

>>6800408
And this is why nobody takes JRPGs seriously.

>>6800428
So you are a nobody, thats great anon, keep it up.

>>6800428
That's your error. You aren't supposed to take thems eriously, they're lighthearted adventure games.

>>6800439
Imagine being such a babby that you get this mad at someone criticizing your favorite toy.

>>6800450
So Wizardry is a toy to you? why do you come in and get pissy about toys then anon?

>>6800439
WHAT DID YOU DO TO KAIRI

>>6799351
Games don't have soul. They are fun or not fun. Good or not good. If you use this term to describe a game then you are a massive faggot.

>>6800321
I've only played the 3rd and felt an endless suffering of tedium as the game would throw a boss at me and five minutes later it'd be a regular enemy so I'd have to stop and grind again to survive.

>>6800904
OBJECTION! (Hey, that's retro now!)

Dragon Quest
>Keep things safe and predictabo but with generally good quality

Final Fantasy
>Change things up every time even if some of the games legitimately suck

The entire script of Dragon Quest VII

>>6799427
I can work with this

I enjoy DQs IV and V a lot, but I like FFs XII and VII more.

Soul isn't real

>>6802192
How big are the characters?

>>6799772
>Dragon Quest innovative
just face it, they stole from Western Devs to make babies first game for the retarded japanese market because most of them couldn't understand an actual rpg

>>6802192
Why are Dragon Quest games so fucking long? 7, 8, 9 and 11 literally take like 100 hours each to beat and even more for side content.

>>6804757
8 takes about 40 hours, 9 takes under 20, 11 is about 50 hours. Earlier games are all 20-30 hours tops, and DQ1 is under 15 hours.

>>6802192
It's only this big because it's formatted as in-game dialogue boxes, ready for programmers to insert. Text was hard-coded into the game. Every page of those tomes is just a few lines of dialogue.

The game takes about 100 hours to complete, but only because it's interspersed with random battles and puzzles. The text itself is not that immense.

>>6804767
Stop rushing through the game and do side content retard.

>>6804793
Getting 99 of every item is not "doing side quests". DQ11 with enough sidequests and recipes completed to make the final boss a pushover takes under 50 hours for the main game and under 10 hours for the silly post-game.

>>6804790
U wot? Dragon quest vii has the most content dense world of the non online games and a past version for each place you go to. There's unique dialogue to all the npcs and tens of potential party chats per location. It's paced well if repetitively but there is a lot of text in that game.

>>6800024
Don't neglect the charm of FF3 just because you didn't like the forced job system.

>>6805043
I've seen pictures like that but with other games. Where do you get them? I mean pictures where there are many screenshots of a particular game.

>>6805026
...summarily having perhaps up to a novel's worth of text, yeah.

>>6805091
I have done some of them, you can see more here https://vretc.neocities.org/ I need to make one for Shiren the wanderer and uncharted waters 2.

>>6805118
Nice. I hope you make many more. I always save them. This should be a thing.

Dragon Quest is complete ass.

>>6805161
No it's comfy. I always liked how you can access houses without actually loading another screen and how they have realistic proportions. It's a comfy little toy if you have a few hours to spare for a light-hearted adventure with funny monsters without wanting to start an epic 50 hour quest.

>>6805118
Make some for DQ fag

>>6799351
dragon quest for gameplay
final fantasy for experimenting with new things

>>6799427

DQ: 3, 4, 8, 11

FF: 1, 2, 5, 6, 7

TIE: 9 (DQ9 had far better gameplay, FF had kino art)

>>6805360

I should defend my picks here:

1 - DQ1 gets respect for being OG, but 2 words: Custom Party

2 - Loved DQ2 as a kid, but it aged like sour milk. DQ's gloomy atmosphere is strong, but FF2 is the better game

3 - Even the most hardcore FF fanboi will agree that DQ3 is superior in every way.

4 - Tough choice, I wouldn't argue too hard if (You) think FF4 is better. But I like the tighter story, love the tragic sacrifice to start Chapter 5 and the "main villain switch" blew my mind as a kid. I don't mind the "Tactics" system, but some hate it. Both games are great.

5 - Also close.

6 - Even the most hardcore DQ fanboi isn't going to argue this one. Fuck off contrarians.

7 - Same. I don't like FF7 at all, but from pure cultural impact on the vidya industry, it deserves its "GOAT contender" status.

8 - Both games have great qualities, but FF8 has some terrible qualities too. This is where the FF series became movies instead of games.

9 - DQ9 is a great game with weak DS art, FF9 is a weak game with maybe the best RPG art ever. I'd rather play DQ9 but FF9 is too beautiful. Tie

10 - FF wins by default, but even if you count the online meh of DQ 10, FFX is the better game.

11 - FF series just keeps getting worse and worse. Sometimes "don't fix what isn't broken" is the smart move.

The only FF game i've enjoyed was the first one, but only because it reminded me so much of Dragon Quest. Would have been perfect with Toriyama art.

>>6805445
We are talking about souls and spirits here, not merits.

>>6805043
>FFIII
>Story

Dragon Quest are all solid titles, it's great for what it is but you know what you're getting every time.

FF1-6 honestly all bore me except for maybe FF5, what I like about FF7 and beyond is the experimental gameplay systems, but they can be really hit or miss. For example the FF7 Materia system is brilliant but I wish it existed in a more free-form game instead of a linear story based experience.

ULTIMA VS WIZARDRY WHICH ONE HAD MORE SOUL

>>6799363
I liked those water color and it's one of the most acceptable showcases of faggy pretension, but Amano really didn't give too much of a shit about Final Fantasy that much

>>6802192
You cannot get more soulful than this

>>6803191
Roughly 28 pixels high on average

dragon quest is the definition of comfort food

>>6800028
>dragon quest itself is a copy of wizardry
Have you played either and not just misconstrue it from people talking about both? Wizardry and Ultima were huge influences on it, DQ is a fused and simplified version of both, but calling it a Wizardry rip off is fucking ridiculous just by looking at either, I'm not sure I even have to explain further.

The only DQ I played was 5 for the DS. I enjoyed it. Where should I go from here?

>>6810404
5 is arguably the best "classic" DQ so move on to see how you like 8 for the series' jump to 3D

>>6810434
What about the newest one? I know it's not /vr/ but I'm curious nonetheless

>>6810452
That one is also good, it's a little more "modern" than 8 though in that it has interconnected outdoor zones instead of a traditional "overworld", and it has enemies on the map instead of random encounters. (8 has random encounters on the PS2 but enemies on the map for the 3DS remake)

>>6810653
Thanks. Is the 3DS version of DQ8 a good option? 3DS also has a version of DQ7 while we're at it.

>>6810669
I personally dislike on-map enemies a lot, and of course the graphics take a hit being on 3DS compared to PS2, but other than that I would say the 3DS version of 8 is better.

7 is a total 3D remake on 3DS whereas on PS1 it was a 2D game, so its personal preference there. I kind of miss the animated 2D monster sprites from the PS1 version but I think the 3DS is probably better overall as well. Keep in mind this is all just my opinion.

>>6810696
Thanks for answering all my questions. I will give the 3DS version of DQ8 a try since I like to play JPRG on my handheld

>>6805512

Then DQ wins every single contest except 9

>>6799351
Dragon Quest

>>6799982
He's not talking how spells work, but rather the variety, and it's no contest, FF always had more of them in that sense. For the longest time all you get is Frizz, sizz, sizzle, which in all honesty is kind of boring. I'd ssy FF3 is even better in this regard and offers more.

Final Fantasy, at least early ones, was just a more refined version of Dragon Quest. No one can argue it didn't streamline the formula. It's just that Square went full retard post-SNES, started ignoring jobs and focused on cinematics.

>>6809845
Wizardry doesn't has a shitty battle system so it wins by default

>>6811989
But all early Wizardry games play almost exactly the same and became drastically outdated very quickly and was made by a guy who originally did business software while Richard Garriott started Ultima when he was still in school and refused to use the same engine in each game and actually had a world for his setting

>>6812001
good gameplay system >>>>> m-muh variety

>>6812013
I do appreciate Wizardry for it's tactical combat but I find it kind of insulting how many things is Wizardry just exist to waste your time and punish you for not taking the game as slow as possible. Wizardry has this push and pull system where playing safely is slow and boring as molasses but the faster you go the more risk you run of randomly having your EXP drained or otherwise getting wiped and losing your progress. I think modern Wizardry clones like Etrian Odyssey do I much better job of maintaining the challenge but also respecting the player's time.

>>6812035
I agree with all that, level drain is retarded and the idea that is more optimal to run and only fight easier fights is kinda weird, level should have been curable at the church if they really wanted such ailment/whatever it is

> clones like Etrian Odyssey do I much better job
Also entirely true, my main problem with classic Wizardry it's that fighters are dumbasses that can only attack and nothing else, having one feels like a waste of a slot and waste of class, it's annoying when more modern dungeon crawlers or rpgs in generals keep doing it

>>6810434
>>6810404
>5 is arguably the best "classic" DQ
that's dq3

>>6812057
> my main problem with classic Wizardry it's that fighters are dumbasses that can only attack and nothing else
they don't ~need~ to do anything else

>>6799363
Fucking based

>>6799351
OFFICIAL DRAGON QUEST TIER LIST

Elder God tier
7

Great tier
5

Meh tier
3, 4,8, 1

Shit tier
2,6,9,11

>>6799351
>Play Dragon Quest
>Every town has like 2 houses
>Every town and dungeon has the same music
>Story is always the same
>Characters are boring and 1 dimensional
>Gameplay is shit

Best JRPG series my ass what do people see in this trash?

>>6799351
>Play this shit series
>Every town has like 2 houses
>Every town and dungeon has the same music
>Story is always the same
>Characters are boring and 1 dimensional
>Gameplay is shit

Best JRPG series my ass what do people see in this trash?

DQ9 is great, people who don’t like it are retarded.

>DQV is best DQ
Of course 4chan would believe the one with waifu choosing is the best one, why am I surprised?

>>6812562
The graphics are fucking atrocious. Why did they do this? Why couldn't they give us another PS2 game like VIII? Why?

>>6812445
JRPGs are for people who are dead inside and who want to waste as much time as possible.