/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6746483

This thread definitely has no value.

>>6746483
Left is definitely not how it looked on a CRT, not even using RF.

>>6746483
Left: Don't care
Right: Don't care

>>6746483
>OP never learned how to adjust sharpness
moor's the pity

>>6746483
False

>>6746483
bilinear interpolation has nothing to do with the output on CRTs

>>6746483
You don't get it man, retroarch shaders are what all hipsters gush about now, just don't tell them those same shaders are bilinear filtering with a bit of blur and scanlines
In a few years we'll make fun of them as we did of filters

>>6746483
if it dont look like this then it aint authentic retro gaming

>>6746483
you can call me a hipster all you like, the left is still ugly as fuck

>>6746483
he has a cute little nose

>>6747869
beautiful

>>6746483
Left - On your CRT? No. On the shitty upscaler in your LCD TV? Maybe.

Right - On a CRT via a RGB cable? Pretty much, only need scanlines with sub-pixel detail which in turn would require at least a 4k resolution to somewhat mimic i.e. not the lazy grid scanline crap you use today.

You guys fall for this bait every single time. It's like you enjoy having the same arguments over and over again every day. Do you have templates of your arguments to copy and paste from? You should by now.

>>6747869
wow, it's like I'm back in 1992

>>6748004
Zach Braff and John C. McGinley star in....

>>6746483
>>how autists think it looked like

I'll never understand how you autists can obsess over this minuscule shit.

>>6747869
>That newscast image ghosting over the game
This happened to other people?
I could actually see the porn my dad was watching in the other room when I was playing sometimes.

>>6746483
>>6749284
nah like this

>>6746483
No the fuck it did not

>>6746491
Not even on RF did it ever look that way

>>6747831
>those same shaders are bilinear filtering with a bit of blur and scanlines
No they are not you cancer

>>6749291
To mimic CRTs, we'll need this level of sub-pixel resolution filtering, anything less is just tacky screen smear.

>>6746483
>Megaman X
>X=10
>Megaman 10 release year: 2010
not retro

Neither of those is how it truly looks on a CRT in 240p, but the left image is closer.

This thread is bad, what's wrong with you fuckers and these inane strawman arguments? Is this really how you pass the time between your parents preparing meals for you?

>>6749423
nah like this

>>6746483
Here's an alternate take. While the same was true for me that left is what games more or less looked like, right is what I always thought they should look like. It just took a while to make it a reality. And to be frank, though I don't think either opinion is 'better' in any regard, if one of us is viewed as more of a hipster by and large it would be you.

>>6750510
Lol why would you desaturate him?

>>6746483
No. CRT televisions had rows of pixels that weren't lined up like a grid (except for very high-end ones -- your poor ass probably wouldn't know), so it didn't even look like that.

I haven't played a retro game on an actual CRT since I was 10 years old so I have no idea how it looks but the fragmented memories in my head

>>6749748
Yes they are you aries

>>6747831
>>6749423
open this in a new tab and zoom in

>>6749339
Retard.

>>6749339
>"minuscule shit"
yea dude, can barely tell them apart

>>6751337
there are some filters out there that do a pretty convincing job, and for consoles that emulate nearly perfectly, there's not much of a reason to. i still keep a crt for the times when i want to play something that doesn't emulate well or whatever. if you're playing snes, nes, genesis, just emulate i'd say

>>6752370
Most filters just add huge scan lines though. I don't even really remember there being many scan lines. The filters that are closest to my memory are the geom ones that give a blur + curve like the curved screens. But nobody here ever uses those and goes "ahhhh authentic. Just like the 90's"

>>6752443
Because you’re either sitting too close to the monitor or you only remember 480p/576p

>>6752443
>I don't even really remember there being many scan lines.
unless your tube was terribly out of focus or was tiny (<14"), there will have been visible scanlines at normal play distances with 240p consoles
i can only assume you're just no longer used it like you were back then

>>6746483
in the later 90s i actually played most of the SNES and Genesis and NES games that I've ever played on a highly legible computer monitor that only got sharper and honestly much easier on my eyes when it was a flatscreen

I was so glad to actually just see the pixels instead of squinting at the inscrutable blobs on my screen

>>6752331
Those are both inaccurate.

>>6752471
Instead of blobs you could see squares, great

>>6752476
Yes, games like link to the past were a LOT better

I admit that maybe FF3/6 was a little more magical on the tv tho

>>6752483
I assume you had RF?

>>6752473
yea well, i'll need a much higher resolution monitor to actually match my 21 year old crt tv
played around with the settings a bit to more closely match a macro photo i took of my old tv
this is part of an 8K screenshot

>>6752526
bit better; can't really see the scanlines in bright parts of my crt

>>6752539
Try increasing colour saturation and changing both gamma settings in the parameters

>>6752545
there's no colour saturation option, and what am i changing the gamma for?
i mainly just adjusted the triad count (defaults to i don't know what, set it manually to 576, since i'm in a pal region and are used to pal tvs)
and the beam sigma min/max to more accurately mimic the focus of my tv

>>6752557
Did you use the CRT Royale preset?
That usually has gamma and colour saturation options, why use pal?
You not native English speaker or something?

>>6752578
>Did you use the CRT Royale preset?
yea
>why use pal?
i said why in that post
>You not native English speaker or something?
me am native english speaker

>>6752539
hmm, with these changed it actually looks much better even at my monitors' 1080p, should have messed with it sooner

>>6752580
I’m also pal region user but having a non stretched and 60fps is definitely preferred
Try the MAME crt shader, I think it has more options

>>6752596
oh i'm running the ntsc version of crash 2 there, i'm only talking about matching my pal tv in triad count, not playing pal games

How it actually is supposed to look
>>6752331
uhh stock Royale is cringe sweetie don't use it

>>6752592

'tism thread

>>6746483
>he doesn't know

Is it weird I like the "dot" filters better? Different TVs had different looks right? I think the dots was closer to what TVs I had as a young lad

>>6747831
No, a lot for those shaders are pretty accurate. Without an oled monitor or tv it's irrelevant though because on an LCD screen the brights will never be bright enough and the darks will never be dark enough. That's the limiting factor.

>>6753632
which ones are those?

>>6753632
you had a bad LCD screen at home?

>>6756097
maybe a large "HD ready" lcd tv with a laughable dot pitch

>square pixels
WRONG

>>6756707
Why would that be?

>>6756729
snes doesn't have square pixels, its pixels are 8:7 in ratio

>>6756836
What do you mean snes doesn't have them? Your CRT which you connect SNES to doesn't. It's a technical limitation of that time, Nintendo couldn't muster a console powerful enough for a proper 4:3 resolution so users had to make do with a stretched image. A pity indeed.

>>6746483
Yep pretty much, except for me it was an 80’s 14 inch Mitsubishi TV, then in the 00’s it was a Panasonic 20 inch. I didn’t “““upgrade””” to an LCD until 2009 on the same day MW2 came out. Still have my Panasonic but it’s dying, it’s picture is super dark, any night time level in any game? Forget about it, everything is basically black.

>>6746491
zoom zoom zoom

>>6756843
the snes is designed to output to a device which displays a 4:3 picture
the snes outputs a 256x224 image to said device
ergo, the snes is designed to output 8:7 pixels

saying "well that's just how the tv displays them" is silly, where are your square pixels? are they square in the ROM? are they square in VRAM? are the square in the composite cable? no, they're the shape they are on the video display, which was always 8:7, games made for the snes were made with this in mind, and don't look correct with square pixels

>>6756857
>where are your square pixels
inside snes's PPU before it is transmitted onto the digital to analog converted and then sent on the CRT
> are they square in the ROM? are they square in VRAM?
yes
>are the square in the composite cable?
no

>>6756843
>>6756857
for a comparison, there are other systems made with anamorphism in mind, such as DVD, which supports 16:9 widescreen only through the use of a flag telling the player the ratio of the content, the resolution is actually always (max) 720x480 (or 720x576 for pal)
really, it's the same for film, too, anamorphic lenses are (were?) used to squeeze a wide picture into a regular 4:3 film strip

>>6756859
the pixels don't look like anything until they're displayed on a video display, all you have is at what ratio they were designed to be viewed with (8:7), and what ratio they're ending up as in the output display (8:7)
inside the console they're just data, there's no need to even store or transmit aspect flags, as the system was only designed to be connected to 4:3 crt tv's, whose input is entirely analog so doesn't even know what horizontal resolution or pixels are

>>6756873
It's merely a crutch, a limitation of that time because Nintendo cheaped out on hardware (which wasn't the last time) and reckoned its users will be content with looking at a stretched image. Luckily, we don't have to adhere to this limitation when playing SNES games today.

>>6756884
you can use square pixels instead if you want, it won't look as it would on a real snes/tv, but it can be useful for ported games whose devs were lazy enough to keep the 1:1 pixel artwork from other systems
pic related, top: ported from a 1:1 system, bottom: designed for the snes

>>6756939
Yes, Chrono Trigger is a notable exception in which the devs actually accounted for stretching. Sadly, I don't know of many such examples in the SNES library so rule of thumb is playing them with square pixels unless a conscientious effort has been made to offset that.

>>6746483
>playing retro solely for "muh nostalgia"
OP is a faggot.

>>6747869
>add CRT curved screen filter
>play grandma_with_vacuum_cleaner.mp3 in the background for ambience
Now that's what I call soul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ8m4kIjvc8

>>6756950
Street fighter ii accounts for the stretch

>>6752616
Why does the brighter one change the size of Crash's eyes?

>>6756939
Are you saying the correct one is where the moon isn't round/a circle? Or am I misunderstanding?

>>6746483
It's indeed a shame not everyone had the chance to experience the glory of Sony's Trinitron models. Shit was comfy as all hell.

>>6757776
the bottom one is the picture as displayed with square (1:1) pixels, the top is how it looks displayed on a 4:3 television (intended)

>>6757752
the shader simulates a crt in a lot of subtle ways, including halation, meaning very bright parts "bleed" into surrounding areas
the image is the same (both sets of eyes are static in the pause screen), it's just that one is drawn with "perfect" pixels and the other with all the stuff crts do to an image

Why should I care about authenticity if it looks worse 90% of the time?

>>6759587
Ah, that makes sense now. Not the guy you were talking to about ratios, but I agree with you now. It seems intended for that.

it's not supposed to look crisp.

Pretty sure the people who think pixel games didn't look pixellated on CRTs have never seen a CRT in their life.

cringe thread

>>6759798
that's not what they think retard, it looks less clean so things blend well
when shit's too clean it looks way more blocky and as such worse for it

>>6759804
Possibly ignorant question, but how does it convert the vertical lines of the shadows into something filled in and smooth?

>>6760061
not that guy but it's usually done through pixel bleed and some blurring of the signal

>>6752331
Is that Mednafen?

>>6760107
yea, retroarch with the mednafen core

>>6760121
OK. i been trying to get the proper looking shader using Mednafen's own setting via MedGui Reborn

>>6760205
GBA shader on PS1?

>>6759804
:)

>>6760246
nah thanks, I'll stick with CRT shader

>>6760205
SoTN looks pretty good with filters.

>>6760262
Did you use the same offsets used in kurozumi? It has that same weird green/pink coloring.

>>6760269
the green pink colouring is because you are not viewing the image in full screen, open it in a new tab and press f11

>>6760270
Def viewing it in fullscreen.

>>6760285
just the emulated subpixels, you're sitting too close to your monitor if you can see them

>>6760298
Can you paste the shader?

>>6760305
I think it's the base CRT Royale that I tweaked a while ago

>>6760305
>>6760310
anon files Fc77adP1o1/Genesis_Plus_GX_slangp
here, the pink is probably the LUT which you can disable in the parameters

test

>>6760231
Yeah but i am a moron and fucked the goatron settings on Mednafen and i lost its configuration, now imma trying to set up retroarch (dont judge me) and see if theres a shader like Goatron for it.

>>6760416
There's some LCD shaders.

>>6760560
Could also fuck around with Royale triad size and offsets to get some kind of abortion like this.

>>6760061
tldr a composite signal is divided between color and brightness information, dithering that appears as a soft gradient and transparency like shown in the picture are artifacts caused by brightness being interpreted as color information

if you have 10 minutes to spare this vid goes in depth about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0weL5XDpPs

>>6760560
>>6760568
Thank you, whats the name of the shader?

>>6760626
First one is lowquality-lcd in the cgp folder, second is a Royale preset I fucked around with for about a minute, didn't save it.

>>6760632
THANK YOU MANG.

>>6746483
Right: how SNES games looked like when I was a kid playing on shit korean 14 inch CRT TVs or in early 2010s on Samsung cheapo LCD TVs
Left: how hipsters imagine it looked like

>>6746483
Not everyone had shit tier CRTs you know.

>>6759804
Integer still looks way better to me than either of the others.

>>6746483
Left: How little kids that put their hands and face all over the screen after eating fried food daily saw their games.

Right: Pretty much how it looked but slightly sharper and not as nice as it did on a crt, even with an RF connection.

>>6762110
>even with an RF connection
Lol

>>6746483
just tryied megaman from steam collection
it's shit
now trying 11 but it's not better

>>6761746
You’re an idiot. That’s all. You weren’t there.

>>6752616
post the shader up on mega

>>6762498
Trinitrons have been around since the 80s.

>>6760632
Anybody else has had issues with shaders out of the sudden not showing up or not loading up on Retroarch?

>>6762631
double check your video driver is set to vulkan (if supported) or opengl
shaders require gpu support, so the more basic output drivers can't use them

>>6762503
that's just crt-royale with these changes;
beam - min sigma: 15
beam - max sigma: 35
(actually that screenshot might have been 10/45, but i've tweaked it a bit more since then)
mask - type: 1
mask - sample mode: 1
mask - specify number of triads: 1
mask - number of triads: 480
(changed back to 480 due to visible aliasing issues with large single-colour images)

>>6762631
If your using vulkan only slang shaders appear, if you’re using OpenGL only glsl will appear

Holy shit, this thread is pure autism.

Quit looking at still images, quit doing side by sides. Just play the game, Jesus. Classic emulators have been good enough for 20 years.

>>6762994
what do you care? i actually enjoy the "how" as much as the "what"

This thread definitely has no value.

>>6763030
>>6762994
Why dont you go back to S.0.yitt?

>>6762856
That's not true. GL can use cg shaders.

>>6763916
not all of them work properly though

>>6763926
Which ones are you having problems with? One of the scalefx shaders is broken, but that's something no one should ever realistically want to use.

>>6763927
I don't, I use slang shaders, I just remember it going black screen using some when I was messing around after first getting it

>>6746483

>>6762994
>Classic emulators have been good enough for 20 years.
sure, if you only play nes or older, or only the most popular 4/5th gen games

>>6746483
How is this terrible thread still alive?
Fuck this board.

>>6756939
>>6756950
In the same game(Chrono) you have the pendulum at the beginning of the game which is clearly not accounted for the stretch because it only looks like a circle in 8:7.

Fuck Nintendo for cheaping out. Stretched graphics look hideous.

>>6764176

>>6764194
that'd require some more complex math to get mode 7 to rotate with aspect correction, i don't see any reason it couldn't be done, but i can understand why they wouldn't bother

>>6764198
autistic people have an impaired theory of mind

>>6764205
My point is that the stretch thing is not even consistent within the same game because different artists did different things.
Look at the character sprites in Chrono Trigger and honestly you'll see that all of them look a little bit too wide compared to 8:7.
Most devs(including Nintendo 1st party) just didn't give a fuck.

>>6764220
I actually found 4:3 to be the correct aspect ratio when character sprites and fonts are concerned, they look a tad too thin in 8:7. On the other hand, Final Fantasy VI looks right in 8:7 all throughout the game.

>>6746483
>early 2010s on Samsung cheapo LCD TVs
So you're acting superior to us because you played retro games on a shitty LCD 6-8 years ago? I bet you stretched it to 16:9.

>>6764224
I highly disagree. The sprites look fatter.
Just look at Chrono and Marle in particular.

Real hardware output is somewhere between 4:3 and 8:7(not exactly 4:3 as idiots parrot because they forget about overscan) so it still looks a bit stretched but not as much as straight out 4:3 on an emulator.

>>6764220
(256 * 8 / 7) * scaling mult (5 in this case) for 1462 rounded down to 1460 looks about right, not too fat, not too thin.

>>6764310
my eyes...

>>6764320
Crono's eyes* :^)

>>6764242
You gotten my interest. On a CRT, I've noticed that the bubbles in Yoshi's Island aren't ovals like the meme picture would have you believe. They're not quite circles either though, they're a little off.

>>6750510
Excellent