/vr/ - Retro Games

>console war thread

Only a sega zoomer would deny this

>>6740945
Saturn should be a ghost or a tombstone or something.

I'm glad there's a Sega Saturn subreddit.

>>6740992
Gotta Go AIDS!

>>6740857
N64fag here. This is a surprisingly great and fair summary, OP. The only thing missing from here is that Saturn's good 3D games are some of the best of all time.

>>6740857
Looks like chemo is back on the menu, boys.
Spam this in every 5th gen console war thread.

>>6740857
>sensible
>console war
OP is nothing but a fool.
Also the "Too kiddy" thing is complete bollocks, any PS1 and Saturn diehard always cites "kiddy" games when they want to bring up good games for the consoles, total hypocrisy.

0/10 /v/ tier shit thread

>>6741012
If you're an N64 weeb do check out getter love

>>6741012
N64 had the worst audio, too. It couldn't compete with CD-quality sound. It more than often made up for that with unforgettable soundtracks though.

>>6741042
I agree, but was trying to be objective. I actually think mature games are juvenile and kiddy games are timeless

>>6741082
Most n64 osts aren't very good beyond being catchy. Can't say they stand out in any particular kind of way. The Goemon games have great music however, the best on the system easily. Everything else? Could take it or leave it.

>>6741042
>believing /vr/ is still a bastion of class compared to /v/

You have invited the monster to roost in your domain.

>>6741080
I think I saw you post about that a few months ago. Looks pretty cool. Thanks anon.

>>6741082
It does have a lot MIDIness in them, true.

>>6741101
Literally all 5th gen osts sound MIDI.

>>6741094
>Most n64 osts aren't very good beyond being catchy.
As if "catchy" it not precisely what music is supposed to be, but I digress:
>Grant Kirkhope's scores on Banjo, DK, Perfect Dark and Goldeneye
>Koji Kondo's scores on Ocarina, Majora and Mario 64
>The metal soundtrack of F-Zero X
The list goes on. There are huge fandoms and massive youtube channels devoted to covering this music in a large way. You can't really describe it as anything other than an unqualified success. In fact, the fact that the actual hardware that audio first came out on was relatively poor is if anything a lesson in the old adage that limits help create good art.

>>6741116
>The list goes on
eh, it really doesn't

This is a bad thread.

>>6741114
Some sound like great midi like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68BcxNvQWs
Some sound like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7T1SVnXYsk

>>6741116
>As if "catchy" it not precisely what music is supposed to be, but I digress:
kinda boring examples there

>>6741129
>implying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7T1SVnXYsk isn't actual kino

>>6741124
yeah it does, fool. havent you ever played tetrisphere?

>>6740857
Has Sega ever stated why they didn't include blast processing in the Saturn?

>>6740857
>Worst Controller
The n64 controller is definitely worse than the ps1 controller. Who thinks the n64 is better than ps1 controller?

>>6741094
I couldn't disagree more

>ps1
>worst controller
Pathetic.

>>6741351
>Ps1 controller isn't bad
Worst d-pad design of all time, jagged aesthetic that looks cool but feels bad, face buttons that look cool and have well-intentioned symbolism (at least for the Japanese versions) but are typically incomprehensible (unlike A, B, C, X, Y), and phoned-in analog sticks that are in a non-neutral position for the thumbs.

>>6741351
>>6741356
>Ps1 controller isn't bad
Worst d-pad design of all time, jagged aesthetic that looks cool but feels bad, face buttons that look cool and have well-intentioned symbolism (at least for the Japanese versions) but are typically incomprehensible (unlike A, B, C, X, Y), and phoned-in analog sticks that are in a non-neutral position for the thumbs.

>>6741380
This but every part of the post is wrong, PS1 controller is excellent

>>6741380
>) but are typically incomprehensible (unlike A, B, C, X, Y),
X = 'cancel and O = Ok makes sense but the retard at SoA swap it for no reason

>Sensible
>on 4chan
>especially in 2020
>during a zoomer raid and a janitor recession

How about adding more contenders.

Pros:
>advanced graphics when it came out
>good for multimedia uses
>had no copy protection so you could pirate
>had good ports like Street Figther and Samurai Showdown

Cons
>ludicrosly expensive when it came out
>controller has 5 buttons instead of six
>bad memory management
>plenty of shitty games
>the good games are also available on other platforms

>>6741380
Never said the Ps1 controller isn't a bad controller. Just that the n64 controller is worse. Also the buttons on the Ps1 pad are not incomprehensible. They are the most basic of shapes you could even argue that it is more intuitive than the standard a, b, x, y as those are English letters versus Shapes which are more universal. Not that this is a really important features of a controller anyways as long as you can tell the difference between the buttons. I'll give ya the d-pad though I'd agree that it is the worse of this generation but it is nowhere near the worst d-pad design of all time.

>>6741042
>Also the "Too kiddy" thing is complete bollocks

>>6741380
The Dual Shock controller still has variations being produced today, meanwhile Nintendo reinvents the wheel every generation with yet another shitty, gimmick controller.

>>6741534
go back to /v/
If anything with PSX's "larger library" it probably has MORE "kiddy" games

>>6740857
>sensible console war
>N64
>no loading times
>mention accessories but doesn't credit others' rumble

>>6741539
stop throwing a tantrum kiddie

>go back to /v/
>If anything with PSX's "larger library" it probably has MORE "kiddy" games

>>6741554
>>6741556
BACK TO /V/
you arent making points stop being mad that ur wrong

>>6741558
aww little kid is upset

>>6741559
I mean you are pretty upset. Yous still havent said why you think PSX doesnt have more kid games.

>>6741561
>no you're upset
aww

>>6741561
>more kid games

Sure. PSX has more kid games, it has more games of every genre. But Nintendo almost exclusively has kid games because they were so hostile to third party developers and their in house production team wanted to make piss easy baby games to appeal to families with young children over anything else, you dumb fucking ESL. Also they were Nazis when it came to censorship.

>>6741562
avoiding the point only shows you're insecure about being wrong. Take out kid games from PSX's library and its worth drops significantly

Actually a great comparison OP, though I love the PS1 controller, much better than N64.
Another point of comparison is that PS1 had lots more interesting experimental shit, with developers really willing to innovate even if it meant the product was rough around the edges. N64 did everything much more by the book, but the library was far more polished as a result.

>>6741565
>Take out kid games from PSX's library and its worth drops significantly
nope
if anything it doesn't change at all

Don't mind me, just a sample of one of the many literal THOUSANDS of hidden gems the Play Station eXperimental has.

>>6741573
Fuming.

>>6741571
He’s dumb as fuck and coping hard about his toddler console his Puritan parents got him.

>Nintendo 64

Holy shit, both sides are retards and are behaving as such, I'll just say that having "muh adult 2deep" as a pro and "kiddy games made for kids" as a con it's fucking retarded, stop acting like 12 year olds that have to play "mature" games to calm their insecurities

T.chad with both consoles that played "adult" games because they were fun not to cope with not having balls like some people and knew he wasn't less of a man for playing fun "kiddie" games

>>6741571
yea it does actually. you /v/tards are all the same. Shit like Spyro and Kloanoa is always on the top of the list with you people. Acting like you are above Mario and Banjo because "its le bingbingwahoo" but Spyro and all that other stuff is literally the same

PSX should have “loading” under bad.

Holy shit did PSX loading suck. As a kid, I remember going to friends houses with playstations and feeling bad for them for being poor because it took so long to load and only 2 people could play at a time and you could only save a certain number of games to the memory card etc etc

Funny how this thread was supposed to be "sensible" but when being presented with a fact they don't like they just start posting /v/ wojacks and avoid the point entirely.

>>6741592
>you could only save a certain number of games to the memory card
Did you even had a 64? Or only Nintendo games which all had save in cartridge? That was a pretty cool feature when buying used games, of course you could buy used memory cards too but it wasn't the same

n64 is just for the autismos playing the shitty collecathons. No normal socially adjusted person would play that sheit

>>6741612
I hate the whole B&K bandwagon but there are more games in the n64 than that, also open worldish >>> linear shit

>>6741587
Disagree. Spyro and Klonoa aren't the foremost platformers on the PS1. You couldn't name the game that is because it's undeniably more mature than mario and banjo.
You couldn't even bring yourself to say its name. That's how much it destroys your argument.
Checkmate.

>>6741612
There's loads of great games on n64

>>6741617
Not him bit Crash is also kiddy shit

Honestly having fmvs in pro is a fucking joke, "wowie shitty cutscenes and voices taking half the cd storage instead of actual game content"

>>6741629
the beautiful CGI fmvs from masters like square added a huge amount to the games.

>>6741648
I'm here PLAY games not to watch movies, of course a mouth breather that regards glorified menus as masterpieces wouldn't understand

>>6741617
It doesnt destroy the argument at all tho. Replying wojaks immediately lost the argument. So much for a thread being "sensible" It isnt just platformers that are kid stuff on PSX either theres parappa and the list goes on

>>6741654
If you were here to play games you wouldn't defend the n64 you retarded manchild nigger

>>6741671
And there is nothing wrong with a game being kiddy, not accusing you of anything though, it was OP that started this whole shit

>>6741675
I wasn't defending anyone you obsessed retard, not all psx games are menu simulators with your occasional shitty movie, die mad

>>6740857
>Console War Thread
>Sensible
Oxymoron

>>6741351
The stick was better for sports games. Try and play a few matches of FIFA with a PS1 D-Pad and get back to me. The PS did introduce a stick, (this comes under copycat again - during 5th gen it just felt like Sony would just mimic anything nintendo did) but as >>6741380
says, the sticks were unnaturally placed and D-Pad still (and still does, nonsensically) take pride of place. >>6741538 I don't see how you can argue that no innovation for 25 years is in any way a good thing. It just speaks volumes to the argument that Sony has no creativity at all and just copies others.
>>6741539
True, I'm just trying to approach it how it was seen at the time. Nobody's commented on
>PS Mag had free Demo Discs
but this was a MASSIVE deal at the time, and it all tied into PS1 being dominant. I can only assume zoomers weren't around, because I remember it being a really big deal.
>>6741551
Their rumble/s came after Nintendo introduced it, i.e. it comes under "Copycat". Sony were just copying everything nintendo did. N64 has 4 player.... ok PS1 gets a multi-tap. N64 has Mario Kart... ok here's Crash Team Racing. N64 has analogue stick and rumble... bing, bang. Here ya go. This process continued in later generations. If you're arguing that, you're just being deliberately obtuse.
>>6741520
This is the kind of reply I was looking for. Nothing's perfect, but then nothing's utterly terrible either.
>>6741570
N64 stick does wear out after a while, but desu mine are all OK and I have quite a few. My PS1's hinge is broken, though. That's why I said least durable. A lot of my discs have given up too. It's quite common to see someone playing an N64 on original hardware in 2020 but how often do you see a working, living breathing PS1? Maybe PS has a better emulation scene - I wouldn't know. I see a lot of N64 emulated, too.
PS1 was great for piracy but you could easily count that under "cons" too because it could've ruined the industry. So it all balances out.

>>6741629
Again, at the time, it was a really big deal. In fact I remember specifically using this as a reason PS1 was better because its version of Resident Evil 2 had high quality cutscenes and on N64 they looked blocky as fuck.

>>6741571
>>6741575
>Ape Escape not amazing
Maturely kys

>>6740857
>FMV (Good)

>>6741538
>The Dual Shock controller still has variations being produced today
That doesn't fix its design flaws, white knight retard. Keeping the same controller for all your successive systems is fine and sometimes preferable, but keeping one that is bad just for the sake of being iconic is completely moronic (hence the DS4's existence (even though I like the pre-DS4 design much more than the DS4 (WHY THE FUCK CAN'T THEY JUST PUT THE AMAZING VITA D-PAD ON A DUAL SHOCK??))).

>>6742090
The argument is which console has "best" accessories, not which console invented rumble, if even that

>>6742120
What design flaws?

>>6741592
Yeah those 5 second load times were horrible

>>6740857
A couple of points in favor of Saturn
>more exclusive games that haven't seen re-releases
>more hidden gems

>>6742161
It goes in the plus column if a company pioneered something first. In this respect, Sega gets kudos for pioneering online play from home consoles. You have to give Nintendo kudos for pioneering rumble, and various other things. Shoulder buttons are another example. You could also argue the N64 truly realized 3D on home consoles. The impact of Super Mario 64 is huge.

>>6742120
If Sony simply swapped the D-Pad and left stick they would improve their controller by about 6 million %.

I would also add that the four face buttons on PS controller are too large and too far apart. The symbols should also have been changed for international releases. The Xbox 360 and Gamecube have better configurated face buttons.

>>6741563
>Nazi
you mean "Communist", right? People always seem to mix those two up.
Or even "Liberal Western Democrats". You are far less free now in the Liberal Democratic West than any fascist country ever was. (Although you are still more free than Communist countries were - barely.)

>>6742756
mccarthyism is a hell of a drug

>>6742756
Well you might as well redo your list because doing rumble first is different than doing rumble best. Dualshock, as the name implies, uses dual motors, one big one small and they give different feedback from each other depending on the context of the game. Meanwhile Rumble Pak uses 2 AA batteries (lmao), fucking huge, aesthetically unpleasant to look at, and fucks up the controller's center of gravity and is absolutely uncomfortable to use. Don't tell me that Rumble Pak is better because that is blatantly fan boying.

>>6742783
I dont see how you can possibly view it as anything other than a cash in. During every gen Sony has outright copied Nintendo (Microsoft have done a bit of it too)
Nintendo is a more innovative company than Sony or Microsoft. That doesnt mean they are "better" but if you keep trying to argue this I will know you are just being obtuse because there isnt even a debate to be had

>>6743135
It's a better functioning and designed product you autist.

>>6743135
Not him but i think nintendo it is better for coming up with the ideas, Sony was literally born from copying nintendo's cd prototypes, still they kind of fail every time they try to copy a nintendo gimmick, i think sony it's better when they just make gimmickless games and consoles

>>6741648
>beautiful CGI
Tim and Eric

>>6743175
Sony has every right to fuck with Nintendo. Nintendo backstabbed Sony and got the wand of gamalon for being Asian niggers.

>>6743283
>got the wand of gamalon
That's what happens when you trust americans

>>6741116
Most of those soundtracks still sound noticeably worse than your typical Saturn or PS1 music. Even if we ignore CD Audio. When you listen to N64 music on it's own outside of the game, you begin to notice just how empty it all sounds.

>>6743441
I'm not talking about how it sounds in terms of sound quality but in terms of tunefulness.

>>6743254
This looked really good for the time. It looks better than in-play N64 graphics.

>>6743283
I don't see how you can view Sony or now Microsoft as anything other than generic and derivative. This isn't to say they are "BAD" but innovative they ain't.

>>6743724
>I'm not talking about how it sounds in terms of sound quality but in terms of tunefulness.

It's not like the Saturn and PS1 are lacking in that department you know...

>>6743784
Yes but
1) Despite its poor sound quality, N64 has some great music
2) There is more a scene around music from N64 than the other gen 5 consoles. More influence on the industry. Take Banjo-Kazooie music going suppressed when you go underwater, for example. Despite the CD-quality audio, I didnt really notice as many memorable music out of my PS1 than I did my N64.

Versions of established classics - such as the Star Wars fanfare in SW games - or the James Bond theme - sounded like a CD on PS1 and like a tinny little MIDI file on N64.

>>6742783
I thought Dualshock was Dual Sticks plus Shock (rumble).

>>6743821
There's plenty of nostalgia for PS1 and Saturn music as well. The difference is for many in the US, the N64 was babby's first console so they have rose tinted glasses for it. It's not like the Saturn and PS1 didn't have memorable chiptunes you know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY1Vetd7OCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZMWszd5SRk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPoOtOcuRqw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPOSBDrqoDY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z-crDa7etg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hOmqwhTPs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCp8qw2ztJQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZpqti7Z2w

Not a single one of those is CD Audio, it's all internal MIDI. And if we include things like ADX encoding, we can include stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrYuhfeXpS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pTtsnVHowI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i36tXq7yK6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df5JD0-P3gM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYwS6481oQk

Again those aren't CD Audio, but compressed streams similar to what F-Zero X and a few other late N64 games do. So again, it's not like the PS1 and Saturn are missing well written and memorable music.

>>6743886
>the N64 was babby's first console
Not the anon you're replying to and I think any console can have good music, provided there's good composers and sound engineers working on the games, but... This "babby's first console" argument is really weird everytime I see it.
Every console can be "babby's first console", since there's people being born all the time. Many kids who were born in the 90s probably had any of the 5th gen systems as babby's first console.
>but the N64 was more kiddy!
N64 is known for FPS, sports and racing games. PS1 actually has more edutainment-type stuff.

>>6743895
I've encountered far more tunnel vision N64 fans who are pretty much blinded by the nostalgia of it being their first console than I have when it comes to the PS1 or Saturn.

The only psx games with good music are DWVII, the persona 2 duology (best music in the entire system) and the fucking Srw games
The only good music on the 64 is MM (not oot), PS 1&2 and srw64

I'm going with psx because P2 music it's just that damn good

>>6743925
Not them but that just sounds dismissing everything you don't like as nostalgia

>>6741586
That’s not the point dipshit. PSX has both options and N64 has only kid shit.

>>6742090
>It just speaks volumes to the argument that Sony has no creativity at all and just copies others.

Like Soïtendo hasn’t been endlessly milking it’s franchises that last saw their glory days two decades ago.

>>6743983
N64 has the best FPS, racing, and sports games, fanboy

>>6742781
History has shown that McCarthy was 100% correct. Massacre the political left.

>>6743992
Nope. Wrong. It’s a bunch of Midway arcade shit.

>>6742781
At least McCarthy allowed his accusers to speak for themselves. "I'm reclaiming my time since you interrupted me from slandering you for STUNNING AND BRAVE political points, Mr. Barr"

>>6744007
F-Zero X, Ridge Racer 64, Wave Race 64, Aero Gauge and Excitebike 64 were made by Midway?

>>6744024
Gran Turismo was better than all those meme arcade racers

>>6744026
Gran Turismo is not fun to play.

>>6744029
Neither is F-Zero X, Ridge Racer 64, Wave Race 64, Aero Gauge and Excitebike 64 compared to running high

>>6744024
At least Gran Turismo can run at 60fps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rdAxewJ6fw

>>6744053
I see we've reached the point in this conversation where the Sony fanboy lists some random "hidden gem" and acts like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because it's on their platform of choice.
>>6744058
Only in that one mode on that one track with no other cars though. F-Zero X is 60FPS with 30 racers.

>>6744062
I would think it was good if it was on n64, but it's not so too bad bitch

>>6744070
You're overrating it immensely by pretending it's better than F-Zero X or Ridge Racer 64.

>>6744078
Lets be honest, R4 >>>>>>> Rage Racer > RR64

>>6744062
>Only in that one mode on that one track with no other cars though.
>F-Zero X is 60FPS with 30 racers.
With basically no trackside scenery or track detail and very basic low polygon car models. Oh, and the draw distance is still pretty shitty.

>>6744086
It fuckin bangs tho
F Zero X is goddamned incredible

>>6744081
R4 is great but the only mode you can race in is really restrictive on which cars you can use and unlocking cars is the most ridiculous grind possible and you're only unlocking them for use in time trials. RR64 has a much better system for unlocking stuff, more unique cars and you can race any car on any track. Also it's way faster at its top speed. I haven't played much Rage Racer but the graphics are really ugly in my opinion, that's actually why I haven't played much of it.

>>6744092
Sure, but I'd say Gran Turismo's 60fps mode is more impressive considering the graphical fidelity it maintains and the hardware its running on.

That said, Sega Rally is probably the best home console racer of that Generation.

>>6744097
Sega Rally is great but F-Zero X has way more content and a higher skill ceiling.

>>6744113
I can still play Sega Rally online with other people though.

>>6744113
>but F-Zero X has way more content and a higher skill ceiling.
It's also a broken, buggy mess where you spend more time flying through the sky and skipping practically the entire race course because it's such a piece of badly coded shit.

F-Zero > F-Zero GX >>> F-Zero X

>>6744131
You could always just not use those exploits if it really bothers you that much.

bought a 64 at launch, never liked all the gay club scene marketing for PlayStation and WipeOut didnt look as interesting as Mario.

I brought my 64 over to a friends house to see if they wanted to try this quirky new game where you could play as Nintendo characters and fight each other, but they sneered at it and didn't even want to try a single game. They liked Medal Of Honor on PlayStation better.

>>6744247
TBF MoH was the better game

>>6744137
They could have designed a better game.

>>6744250
No way.

>>6744267
they were comparing it to smash not this boring as fuck call of duty clone

>>6744268
Seems like a weird comparison but alright I guess.

>>6744271
they would just play medal of honor over and over again, fuckin weirdoes. Packed up my 64 and never went back.

>>6744336
lol let me get this straight, you went to a friends place but they didn't want to immediatly drop everything they were already doing to do exactly what you wanted when you wanted so you got butthurt ended the friendship and stormed off?

Good riddance.

>>6743983
And there is nothing wrong with "kiddy" shit when it is fun and goty material, why does that even matter? You need to prove something by playing the "big boys" games?

>>6744379
Not to mention there are rated M games on the N64

>>6744402
usually censored tho

>>6744402
>>6744406
M rating it's a joke, barely different than T give me Ao

>>6744402
Seething nintoddlers btfo

N64 and Saturn > PSX

>>6745072
Based oldguy

>>6744406
Which ones are censored? (PAL games don't count because everyone in the 90s was censored there thanks to the Germans).

>got normies involved
really? go close your facebook account lol

>>6740857
Dreamcast

Pro

>graphics on par with ps2
>fun arcade games

con
>to easy to pirate
>no dvd player
>lead up was a disaster

>>6743989
Question, if Nintendo went out of console business, how quick and how big would a Kickstarter for them get?

OK, now lets say Sony or Microsoft said they were going out of console business. Would anyone care?

>>6744336
They sound like a bunch of fags.
I mean come on.
Nintendo's All Stars DUKE IT OUT?
What you would rather play Finkel Finkelstein's Medal Of Goyim?
Yeah no thanks. Ditch your mates, stick with Ninty.

>>6745206
It was meant to be about 5th gen, but I guess Dreamcast saddles 4th and 5th gen. But since we have Saturn in here it seems pointless to include Dreamcast too. Dreamcast to my mind goes with PS2 GameCube and Xbox.

A lot of DC ports ended up on those consoles, not on 5th gen machines. (namely, PS1 and N64).

>>6740865
UC Berkeley Halloween party?

>>6743441
>When you listen to N64 music on it's own outside of the game, you begin to notice just how empty it all sounds.
You smokin' rocks, my nig?
https://youtu.be/PByIP2MLWP0

>>6747821
Not him and I really like a lot of Nintendo games myself but everybody knows that the Nintendo fanbase is so dedicated it could often pass as a cult. So of course that they would sell their kidneys to save their mighty Ninty, how does that prove anything?

>>6743983
>only kid shit
Quake, Resident Evil 2, Turok games, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, Mortal Kombat games, Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, Castlevania 64, Doom 64, Duke Nukem 64, Hexen, Mission Impossible, Nightmare Creatures, Shadowgate 64, Shadow Man.

>>6741538
Yeah, but the N64 controller was amazing.

Pros
>was relatively cheap
>was considered enough of a treat for sega
>had a possibly the best port of Doom on a console
>had killer apps like Tempest 2000 and AvP

Cons
>The Doom port had no music
>small library with a good amount of shit games
>weird and uncomfortable controller
>unnecessary CD add-on

How is Saturn emulation nowadays?

>>6748494
Still has fundamental flaws but generally you can play games. It's like where N64 emulation was 10 years ago.

>>6747821
>>6748231
Not them but it proves Nintendo's games are the best, let's be honest sony,'s forte have always been third party supports, take that away from them and you have a joke like the vita while Nintendo without third party support had masterpieces in both the n64 and gamecube, that's because their first party titles are really good or iconic

I don't know what the hell microsoft but they are not retro, the first should have said Sega WHICH has more iconic first party games than sony

>>6748250
Star wars it's for kids