/vr/ - Retro Games

I always liked Macbeth and Area 6.

>>665694

Dis

Fuck Aquas with a goddamn rake.

That stupid desert planet too.

I don't even have to mention the sun but I will because wow

>>665694
best way to enjoy the game at its fullest

Y-Independence Day-Lava Star-Train Yard-Area 6-Venom 2.

Toxic Ocean/crab bot is one of my favorite levels, and Sector Z is alright, but the submarine level is so boring to me, and the tank was so much better.

I love my Meteo <3
It always reminds me of my favourite Peppy line "It's quite... TOO quiete..."

great now I wanna play starfox

>>665727
I'd rather play zoness than any of the fucking landmaster levels.
It's not like they're not fun to me, they just seem tedious and boring. It's like the child in me just loves flying in a space ship too much and the landmaster always felt too limited in comparison

Macbeth is always a must, regardless

I love to see that train fucking the rail up, "step on the gas", the guy panicking, ton of explosions and the +50 hit score. shit never gets old.

Independence Day a best

>>665694
This. This exactly.


Favorite levels?

In order, probably:

Area 6
Venom I
Titania
Macbeth
Zoness
Sector Y
Aquas
Sector X
Meteo
Corneria
Solar
.
.
.
Katina
Venom II
Fichina
Bolse
Sector Z

One of my favorite easter eggs is that you get to see the train on Macbeth supplying the missiles for the Sector Z area. Always thought that was a neat little touch.

>>665773
UH CAN'T STHAP ET!!!!!!!

>>666479
HOW DID I NEVER NOTICE??

>>665720
This is the best one, though I sort of wish you could do both Venoms, because the easy Venom stage is kind of fun.

>>666479
Thats really not an easter egg, its just neat level consistency.

>>666479
screenshot so emulator

Y - Katina - X (Warp Zone) - Z - Area 6 - Venom 2

>>665720
I'd rather go through Aquas just so that I could play Zoness, shit was top tier level.

You got to go the route where you meet Katt or you're not playing right.

>>666930
I don't like Katt.
I hate that her shitty theme interrupts the great Zoness music, I hate her uncomfortably furry dialogue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apwUMPwnbEk)), and I hate that she can steal your kills in Sector Z if you don't get there from the Sector X warp, making getting the medal there much more of a pain than it should be.

>>666972
god damn the medal on hard mode sector Z is so fucking hard is you come from zoness, took me like 10 tries to actually get credit for all the missile kills

Level quality correlates nicely with required score for medal.

Yes, I saved the Lylat System. NOW PAY ME MY GODDAMN MONEY.

Fucking love Katina and Macbeth.

>>667061
I've only gotten into that special zone in the Asteroid Field once. It's that damn last ring to the far right that always gets me.

>>667070
It helps to hold Z and R to tilt left and right so you can move left and right faster.
You wouldn't think it would work because you're spinning, but it does, I promise.

>>667045

>>667061

This guy knows what's up

>>667009
Not really too surprising.
More shit to blow up = more fun.

Meteo is cheating though. It only has that high number because of that warp.

>>666479
better view of one of the missiles

>>666774
True I guess, I just hope the Wii U game does the same thing with levels. I always appreciate neat little touches like that.

>>667091
forgot image

>>667091
I hope there's a Wii U game at all. And hopefully it's a rail shooter.

Although I wouldn't mind it playing like Star Fox 2 with more content, more challenge, and better controls. No, Command is really not like Star Fox 2

>tfw you pull of a no friendlies killed run of Katina

http://youtu.be/as6fHfNEF1s?t=8m

>>667045

65344/1021 = 64

>>667132
I hoping we're gonna see a new star fox at this e3. Not trying to get too excited though.

I don't even consider Command canon to the series b/c it was such a mess. I don't care if Dylan Cuthbert was involved, it was pure shit...

Best way to go is take Cornerias alt route then go to Meteo anyway. Warp to Katina, go to X even if you win. Take X warp to Z then Area 6 to Venom hard.

Thats how you get a high score motherfucker. I can get 1700 on a blind run not trying.

>>665720
Is it possible to go from Sector X to Macbeth? I though the warm took you to Sector Z.

>>667180
>not putting a first person view or rear view or something on the controller

>>667045
>this guy thinks he's paid

>>666479
huh, that's pretty neat. i hate sector z, so i've never thought about that.

also, i never knew katt would come help you out at macbeth if you play through zoness.

i love finding out new stuff about this game after all these years.

>>666479
>>666479
It's things like that I love in games.

>>667045
>>667417
This was me playing for the first time in a couple years. I don't even think I got any medals except for Venom II.
Basically, what I'm saying is STEP IT UP.

>>667367
Sector X has 3 exits

>Warp - Sector Z
>Fight boss, kill it fast - Macbeth
>Fight boss, Slippy fucks it up - Titania

>>667561
>1109
>telling people to step it up

oh wow

That said.
Path of choice
Corneria > Meteo > ID4 > Sect X > The Scottish Planet > A6 > Ven I

High score is around 1800.

Never liked 64 that much, always preferred the SNES game.

Really hated the free-flying levels in 64.

>>667612
Like I said, I hadn't played the game in ages. I also didn't take a high scoring path, just the hard path. I know it's not a great score by any means. That's exactly WHY I was saying to step it up.

>>667561
>STEP IT UP.

lol

>>667650

>>667626

Corneria > Meteor WIGGITY WHACK ZONE > the warp goes to Katina I think? > Solar > Macbeth > Area 6 > Easiest form of Star Wolf

If you somehow could kill EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ENEMY on any given route through 'easy Venom', would it it be higher than the Expert route?

>>667180
That would make me buy a Wii-u instantly. Literally fucking instantly.. well that or F-zero.

>>667707
Easiest form of Star Wolf? You really think that is easier than Fortuna or Bolse?

>>667707
Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2iMCQt2WnA

>>667745
>start map
>turn left, boost forward
>u turn
>cutscene starts, skip it as fast as you goddamn can
>aim up
>OPEN FUCKING FIRE
>kill two of them before they can even start giving you shit

>>667753
I know that you can do that and I can certainly beat them within the time limit but it doesn't make them easier. They are harder to kill and are much more aggressive in their attack than they ever were on Bolse or Fortuna.

>>667753
>kill two of them before they can even start giving you shit
At least on Venom II they are CAPABLE of giving you shit.
Any other time you fight Star Wolf, they're basically a joke.

>>667753
You can do that on any Star Wolf map. I've killed two and taken Wolf down below half on Fortuna before they even break formation. Andrew never said a word.

>>667765
>>667767
>>667771
And that tactic makes them piss easy as well.
Just gotta deal with the infreuqent somersaults they do.

It's more fun to have them all alive though

Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but what makes 'Nintendo 64 mode' different from Gyro Mode in the 3DS version? It's got the same enemy placements, boss health and such. I've done both multiple times and not noticed any real difference, despite claims of a 'greater challenge'

>>667753
I loved doing that. They're predictable pushovers all the time.

>>665735
Quite

>>667650
I don't get the bragging. I get 1600 on a random playthrough.

This pathway gives me the most number of kills (personally).

Anyone know what the agreed upon best high score path is?

>>667868

Im pretty sure that is it.

Though Ive seen some crazy shit pulled off on a Y>Aqua>Zoness>Mackers>A6 run.

>>667614
I'm with this guy, although it's really close.
The changes made to the scoring, greater draw distance, higher frame rate, and the ability to throw more enemies on screen are pretty significant improvements, but the SNES original just barely comes out ahead for me because:
- It has 20 levels, compared with 64's 16.
- All of the levels are on-rails, compared with 64 where 5 of the levels are all-range mode only and had almost nothing to them.
- I like the music better.
- I like the animal chatter better than the cheesy voice acting.
- It had a greater level of challenge.
- It had minimal unskippable cutscenes, whereas 64 had unskippable stuff at the end of pretty much every level.
- I felt like it did a better job of making me feel like a badass ace pilot.

>>668393
>cheesy voice acting
I respect your deep desire to mongle cocks

>>668423
No one can argue that the voice acting wasn't cheesy.
That's just impossible.

>>668428
Cheesy compared to what? I think Star Fox 64 had relatively good voice acting for video games at the time. It helps that the lines were all short and that the material wasn't very dramatic, but IMO the voice acting was above standard.

>>668462
I'm not saying the voice acting was bad. Not at all. It was definitely great voice acting, and still is today. It's very cheesy though, and I personally prefer no voice acting.

Why does everyone hate Command so much? It returned the series to its roots, didn't it?

>>669602
Only if you take "series' roots" to mean "you usually fly around in an Arwing", and nothing else.
It's not a rail shooter.
It's a turn based strategy game with somewhat bland action segments controlled with the stylus, and there's a lot of emphasis on the incredibly shitty story.

>>669602
But it was done entirely in all-range mode.

>>668480
>... Corneria. Fourth Planet of the Lylat System...

>>665694
overall I really agree with this
but I love solar so much that I have to squeeze it in

>>671019
I always found Solar kind of boring and frustrating.
The enemies were mostly just firebirds and rocks that couldn't really do anything to you, the game has to throw a ton of health at you to make up for the constantly getting damaged gimmick, and if your team mates talk, they automatically take damage, which is just stupid.
What about it do you enjoy?

>>667738
Miyamoto said he was surprised people still want a new F-Zero, saying he thought GX was about the best it could possibly get.

So in other words, it most likely hasn't even been considered.

>>671092
That quote has always been very unclear.
Him being surprised that people want a new F-Zero could mean that he thought there wasn't an audience for a new F-Zero, and was pleased to learn otherwise.

>>671053
I can't even put my finger on it, it's just always been one of my favorite levels. I've always got a kick out of dealing with natural hazards like that when playing games.

If they're going to make a Star Fox for the Wii U I hope they reboot the franchise. It's gotten too story focused starting with Adventures in all the wrong ways. I'm not saying that gunning for an effective story is a bad thing but don't let story replace gameplay, that's stupid.

>>671301
What's "Adventures"?

>>671328
You know, that Zelda clone with the Star Fox reskin that that shitty Krystal character came from.

I really wish I could get this to work on my Wii. It was one of my favorites and I always play it when I'm with friends who have it, but I really wish I could just play solo on my own. Maybe I should go to some yard sales or something.

>>671347
Can anyone tell me if it was a GOOD Zelda clone? RareWare's track record with 3D adventures is a little sour, if you ask me.

>>671347
...Nope, still have no idea what you were talking about. And who's "Krystal"?

I was never a huge Star Fox fan but one of my favourite memories from high school was that week me and my friends discovered Star Fox 2 and I brought it in to show everyone and my one friend who loved Star Fox 64 was so amazed I had discovered this lost treasure.

>>671362
I like this namefag.

>>671357
It looks nice, but it's ridiculously simple.

>tfw you know Adventures ruined the Star Fox franchise but you can't help but fap to Krystal anyway

save me, /vr/

>>671624
There's nothing we can do.

It's terminal.

Polite sage for not retro, but is Assault worth the download?

>>671703
Not... really. It's about half and half between flying and shooting and about half of the flying is all-range mode stuff.

>>671703
Nah, Command is alright though. Nothing to truly succeed 64 though.

>>671703
I enjoyed it well enough, but the best part is definitely the multiplayer. I wouldn't bother unless you had some friends to play it with.

>>671810
Assault's multiplayer is pretty great.

>>671703
Download?
Sure, I guess it's worth emulating.
The first level is probably the best level in the entire game, so it's not like you'll have to waste a bunch of time slogging through on-foot nonsense to get to the good stuff and see if you even enjoy that.
Great graphics in that first level as well.
Look at this shit. It's fucking beautiful.

Oh, and if you can play the multiplayer with friends somehow, it's definitely worth it.

>>671831
Man, after playing that first level in the demo kiosks, the rest of the game felt like a betrayal. There's only, what, two other rail shooter levels in the entire game? Plus it has about ten levels total, and most of the on foot maps felt like they were made for multiplayer first and then ported to the campaign.

>>671825
Yeah, they should make another game like that, but with online play.

>>667096

That was a missile? i always thought it was an engine or something.

It's too bad about Assault, if they had just added bots in the multplayer and maybe a few more Arwing missions it'd a be a pretty tight Arcade style shooter.

Katina and Fichina are both really terrible levels, but other than that the on-foot missions (particularly the hideout and the Aparoid base) were actually a lot of fun.

Zoness and Macbeth were great. Honestly fuck Aquas though.

>>671965
What was wrong with Aquas?

>>671983
Slow as hell, can't see shit, no you fucking torpedo I wanted you to hit the fish not the stupid pillar, probably the hardest medal to get in the entire game.

>>672105
Isn't the medal as easy as constantly mashing fire laser, fire torpedo and barrel roll for the entire thing.
I usually get it if I do that.

>>672105
You moved slowly, but the level was still fast paced since it threw so much shit at you. It's the same with the Landmaster levels.
The darkness never really bothered me personally, and I never had any trouble with the torpedoes, but okay, fair enough.

>>672128
I take it back, Aquas is the second hardest medal to get in the game, because Sector Z is bullshit on a different scale.

Still, it's the only stage I can't consistently get a medal in because the margin of error is so extremely low.

>>671092
>>671150
Hopefully either way it opens possibility if this is true. I still believe F-Zero has a lot of potential as a franchise.

Was there a way to get to Zoness without dealing with Aquas bullshit?

>>672616
No.
Lucky for me I like both levels a lot.

>>671854
I think it was three. The first one was easy but amazing, the second one was a blur to me, and the third assumes that the entire game was on rails and brings the difficulty up. It was literally the only time I had died in the game.

>>672689
He said two OTHER rail shooting levels, which means he's saying there's a total of 3.

I don't know what route, but my favorite level was always the one where you fight that mothership that keeps releasing little dudes. I would just shoot a bomb as it's releasing shit and kill like 30 of those guys at once.

>>672710
Oh, you're right. My mistake.

>>672721
I hope you didn't catch any friendlies in those blasts.

>>672727
Why does that matter? They don't hurt your score.

>>672735
It makes you a terrible pilot and person.

>>672735
FOX THAT WAS ONE OF OURS!

>>672741
Irrelevant. Medals and that invoice at the end are all that matters.

>>672752
And that's why you're a terrible person.

>>672757
Again, irrelevant.

If it could somehow be done,

Corneria > Meteo > Aquas > Zoness > Macbeth > Area 6 > Venom I

would be the best route

>>672843

It cannot, though.

And that is terrible

Macbeth is my favorite, hands down.

Zoness has the best music

Fortuna is the worst.

What I really like about 64 is the little hints at character's histories, like Fox's and Bill's apparent past friendship or Falco's and Kat's unknown past with each other. It really gave the feeling of an actual world with a history instead of just a backdrop to give an excuse for all the action. Also Area 6 was awesome. Star Fox assaulting Venom's toughest defenses alone while the enemy is in constant disbelief made you really feel like a badass mercenary pilot.

>>671930
It's easier to notice at a better angle. Plus, this is the 3DS version, so they look a little different.

But yeah, I used to think it was an engine-like thing too until I watched a video on it and someone pointed it out.

All of this Macbeth love.

I'd love to see them use it as a kind of "speedy" stage for SSBU. It could work kind of like Big Blue from SSBM where you fight on top of the train while different hazards keep destroying different cars (robotic kite, fighters, arwings, landmaster,etc).

I liked Assault

The Corneria City map which was just ahuge hide-n-seek and full of explorable shit was fun. Plus it was hilarious to set up one of those rainbow nukes in the middle and destroy anything in the air.

>>673719
Sounds like you are just talking about the multiplayer.
Even people that absolutely hate Assault admit that the multiplayer was pretty good.

If they do make a Wii U game, I'm hoping they either bring back/rework Fay. She seemed like a neat character in SF2.

>>674060
>fluffy dog giving you bedroom eyes

fucking stop it Nintendo

>>674060
I prefer Miyu.

>>674083
GOD DAMMIT I SAID STOP IT

>ITT: Furfags

>>674083
Isn't Katt based off of her already though?

>>674169
Katt sucks though.

>>674107
No

>>674140
You know it. Who else gives a damn about Starfox anymore?

>>674212
Well it is 20th anniversary currently.

>>672105
>Hardest medal
>not Sector Z

>>669602
I didn't hate it but the fact it was always in all-range mode and the shitty stories really disappointed me.

>>675420
Didn't you always wish that you could blow up the UFO in Katina by doing a barrel roll into it?

I like doing low score runs on occasion.

Also fuck Sector Z's medal on Normal.

Expert medals were easier to get when I wasn't fucking dying all the time.

>>675427
I loved fighting the mothership on Katina but I didn't want to fight a gimped version a dozen times in one playthrough, no

Does the original Star Fox have the same replayability as SF64?

>>676052
Yes, there are several routes to choose from. Although you can't get medals, it still is hard to get high scores on it and there are some secrets that will blow your mind.

>>676052
No. I love the first game, even prefer it over 64, but the original Star Fox does not offer much incentive to replay beyond the satisfaction of experiencing a damn fine arcade-like game all over again. Adding much more replayability is probably the biggest thing 64 did right.
Scoring well is too easy and simple, and high scores aren't saved, so it barely feels like it matters at all beyond the satisfaction of seeing 100% for every stage.
No medals.
3 totally separate paths, instead of branching paths with shit like "if you go to this planet from this other planet, Katt/Bill will show up".
No unlockable difficulty mode (although the original Star Fox is still harder than 64 on Expert, I'd say)

The music is generally better in SF(snes)

>>676551
Yeah, the stage select theme for Star Fox conveys that epic space adventure feel better than anything SF64's OST has

>>675273

All of the space levels are arbitrarily harder simply because there are larger more powerful ships and tons more fighters from zero range to far out.

>>665672
The Red line, or the easy Corneria to the asteroid warp down the middle until Macbeth.

>>665720
God-tier route.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND

(Star Fox spoilers)

>>676752
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyFL7aG9fhk
Yeah, I'd have to agree.
'course, it's just a chunk of the main theme, which is absolutely superb.

Wow, that was a trip. Maybe Fox shouldn't drop acid before a sortie.

It would be so cool if you were able to go from Titania to MacBeth.
My dream route would look like this:
Meteo -> Katina -> Zoness -> Titania -> Macbeth -> Area 6

>>677885
Enjoy being stranded in nonsensical fever-dream space forever

>>677905
Man was a creepy ending to a Nintendo game.

Ain't no love for Sector Z.

>>678257
It's a shitty level.
No Star Wolf fight.
No independence day with tons of enemies.
Hard to get the medal on, especially if you have Katt join you.
What's good about it?

>>678268

You get the big dogfight from Bill's stage plus the ability to shoot down giant goddamn missiles, and actually protect Great Fox for once, what is not to love. Also you have to actually be good and have some skill or no medal for you

>>678257
Sector Z? More like Sector ZZZzzzzzz....

Why is Falco such an asshole?

Did Fox bully him when they were kids?

>>678291
It's just his Ego, in reality he's tsundere for Fox.

>>678291
He was a rough and tough biker before Fox picked him up off the streets.
Or something like that.
It's just his nature.

Man, why did they scrap Star Fox 2? I guess it was developed too late in the SNES' life, but whatevs.

It was finished and had some cool features and decent speed. Also, the soundtrack was nice.

>>678535
It also had Fay and Miyu

>>678279
My main issue is the medal being stupidly hard if you come to Sector Z from Zoness. You're basically punished for taking the harder route, which is just dumb.

That, and the level being really short, easy, and kind of boring.

>>678535
It wasn't finished. There were still a couple crippling bugs left in dump.

>>679149
It's the harder route.... How is that dumb?

>>679196
The level isn't any harder. It's much easier, actually.
Only getting the medal is made harder.
It's shitty design.

>>679189
Crippling bugs? Like what?

>>678535
It's one of my favorite games ever made.

Have a gif I just made.

I remember Titania being awesome as hell, but your motivation is bullshit.

>>678535
Is it just me, or is the frame rate a lot smoother in SF2?

>>679370
It's not just you. Star Fox 2 also often throws more polygons and textures on screen than Star Fox ever did.
Reason is Star Fox 2 uses the SFX2 chip.
Star Fox only had the SFX chip, which wasn't as powerful.

You ever do a no wingmen run.
It's creepy how quiet it is without them.

>>679298
Titania's one of my favorite levels, but I always see it get a lot of hate, and everyone seems to prefer Macbeth.
I don't think I'll ever understand why.

>>681838
Maybe because you have to go to Bolse afterwards? That was the reason I didn't like it.

>>681854
That doesn't seem fair, and it has nothing to do with the level itself.
I don't see people loving Aquas or Bolse because you have to play Zoness or Venom I after them.

>>678535
It's a shame they didn't reuse the character designs from SF2. The reoccuring characters look nice in their late-SNES dress and Miyu and Fay are pretty charming.

>>682246
And then Wolf would have a bad-ass scar over a visibly non-functioning eye.

>>682246
jesus, they keep making those faces

If this had been released we would've seen a generation of young furries akin to Sonic the Hedgehog's fandom

Should I get the 3DS version even if it is just the same game with better graphics?

>>682350
Sure!

>>682383
I own the original though. The VC version that is

>>682343
Who cares?

Srcamble
Srcamble
PDA files
Airlock on

>>682350
The graphics are technically superior, but I think the art style suffers a little bit.
Voice acting isn't quite as good either.

>>682451
Don't you want some tasty new graphics

My favorite is this. I hate Aquas. I HATE it.

>>682501

They even preserved his stubby tail from the 64 version, what's not to like.

If you look close enough at his 64 sprites, his black dots are actually dark green.
Blue in Smash was probably just a throwback to the SNES sprites.

>>683967
>Blue in Smash
Look closer. It's more blue-green in Melee.

Also, Melee has the best Fox design. Just throwing that out there.

>>683992
I agree. He looks like a determined, cunning hero.

He looks like an asshole or a faggot in his later versions.

>>683992
>not the box art of StarFox SNES

Isn't there a rumour that Fox, Falco, Peppy, and Slippy have cybernetic legs?

>>684808

It was mentioned in the SNES manual.

The thing about SNES manuals though is that a lot of them tend to be full of shit and sequels tend to ignore it if it's not in the actual game itself.

>>684808
It's because of their weirdass metal feet and impossibly tiny ankle joints on the SNES puppets

then in Starfox 64 they had weirdass pencil legs too but everyone did on that fucking system

Plus some pseudobullshit about amputations making pilots able to withstand higher Gs, which while technically true is a gross oversimplification

>>681838
Titania really just can't compare to Macbeth, since the Conductor is just a fun character with his southern drawl and backtalk.

Titania, meanwhile, just has everyone complaining about how useless Slippy is.

Plus, you have to compete with the Supply Depot explosion. And nothing can compete with that.

>MISSION
>ACCOM
>PLISHED

>>683967
I want the creepy fox doll to have his own game.

>>684808
It was also mentioned in a nintendo power interview a long, long time ago.

It was supposed to be about the g-forces causing them to pass out if they had the blood run to their feet, so they amputated their legs or whatever.

This seems to have been replaced with the "g diffuser" in SF64 though.

>>678291
>>678331
>>678341
Falco is an ex-gangster. Not gangsta, in the Tupac crips & bloods sense, but gangster in an Al Capone organized crime/protection rackets kind of way. He's about a single step away from fitting in with Star Wolf instead of Star Fox.Which makes that-one-person's betrayal all the more stupid, as she was nowhere near the type of character to turn to crime..

>>665672
If you pick a route that doesn't involve Bill then you are doing it terribly wrong.

>>684028
>implying fox's role in the world of nintendo isn't to be the asshole or faggot

clearly there is no character nintendo blatantly creates to be regarded as an asshole other than fox or falco. as far as faggot, ness, or fox can argue over that crown.

>>667173
FUCK

>>684989
>clearly there is no character nintendo blatantly creates to be regarded as an asshole
What about Wario?

>>684820
Don't forget, he's got a stub of a tail in 64; he clearly docked it to also reduce blood rush.

>>683967

adventures Fox is still my fav

After seeing thread after thread for this game I finally got motivated to pick it back up last night. It'd been over a year since the last time I'd played and I'd been curious to try a route I'd never attempted in my 15+ collective years of play, one I'd dubbed the Star Wolf route (pic related).

Things looked bleak when I missed the warp in Meteo (it's always that last fucking gate), but I managed to set what I believe to be a personal record for Sector X, around 185 or so. I blame equal parts inexperience and what feels like a small additional amount of lag from either N64 emulation over the Wii or use of the Wavebird for most of the awkwardness.

Still, around an hour of good times. Score ended up in mid-1100s, not bad for shaking off the rust and taking a non-optimal route I don't think. Thanks for getting me off my ass and getting me to play one of my old favorites again, /vr/.

Fuck me getting all the medals was challenging until I discovered charge shots were great for bonus Hits.

>>689680
don't lock on for even more bonus hits

>>689693
I would always do that in Zoness.
It was really easy to kill the searchlights by charge shooting at the water next to them.

>>683967
Fox has blue eyes in Star Fox 2.

>>689808
Yeah, maybe that's why he said the blue eyes in Smash were probably a throwback to the SNES sprites.

>>684820
Isn't it true that actual fighter pilots put straps on the legs of their flight suits to prevent excessive blood flow to that part of their legs? The theory the Star Fox crew got their feet amputated to prevent G's makes sense.... I wonder how pissed they all were when the G Disfuser was invented a few years later for Starfox 64?

>>667045
>>667417
>>667561
>>667612
>>667650
>Bragging about having under 2500 kills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEWv12bAoo0

Also, if anybody wants to see what's possible on area 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGZO3nO-I3c

>>689808
who are the last two characters?
and why aren't they in any of the actually released Star Fox games?

>>690213
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGZO3nO-I3c

Sounds so awesome in Japanese.

>>690227
Because canceled games, son.

>>690234
So what? They could still be introduced in a later game!

>>682501

>mfw I read the text as "Haha! You're stupid as fuck!"

Hypothetical question: If they were to bring back Fay and Miyu for Star Fox Wii U, who would you want to voice them?

I'd choose Grey Delisle for Fay and Cree Summer for Miyu

>>690276
Lylat voices only.

>>690213
>Also, if anybody wants to see what's possible on area 6:

>possible
>TAS

I see what you're getting at and everything, but what you see in that video isn't actually possible for a human being.

And re: the video before it, I suppose you could argue whether or not taking a death to respawn enemies counts as cheaply padding your numbers, but it's still a really impressive run.

>>689808
>Slippy wearing a retarded douche necklace

nigga has no style.

>>690351
Everything done in a TAS is always possible for a human being, the catch is that it is, generally speaking, absurdly unlikely.
That however does not make it impossible.

Killing yourself adds about +20 kills which is pretty insignificant, retrying at checkpoints and so on to maximize your score can make a pretty significant difference to your score however and no retrying was had in that video.

>>690546

>Everything done in a TAS is always possible for a human being, the catch is that it is, generally speaking, absurdly unlikely.
That however does not make it impossible.

It isn't possible for a human being because everything in a TAS is done on emulator and it's not possible for any player to do some of that on real machines/consoles.

There are glitches that are impossible to for certain players to figure out playing normally without these tools. It literally is impossible for someone to do stuff in a TAS normally without the assistance of tools.

>>690721
Okay then you've made the claim, prove it is impossible to replicate on a console.

Some TASes (the popular ones) have been replicated on consoles, show us that this one cannot.

>>690818
Oh god really let me see this

>>690879
What specifically do you want to see? Some of the more popular TASes on consoles?

>>690818

It's impossible to replicate on console because of the timing and slowdown they introduce in emulators. I am quite positive that it is impossible for someone playing without tool assistance to skip the beginning segment by glitch walking into the ceiling of Metal Man's stage in Megaman 2 normally with normal control at normal speed on a normal NES. An emulator with tools is a different story.

>>690948
>because of the timing and slowdown
That's not a reason, that's not a reason at all.

>I am quite positive that it is impossible for someone playing without tool assistance to skip the beginning segment by glitch walking into the ceiling of Metal Man's stage in Megaman 2 normally with normal control at normal speed on a normal NES. An emulator with tools is a different story.
This is completely irrelevant to Star Fox 64 and my knowledge on Mega Man 2 is limited so I'm not going to discuss it.

Let me spell out the argument since you don't appear to really know what a TAS is:
At the absolute core, a TAS is simply a list of button inputs at incredibly specific times. That's basically it.

My claim is as follows:
That if you take a real N64 and a real (Japanese) copy of Star Fox 64, then input exactly the same button commands at exactly the same times, you will get exactly the same result as that video.
Since your argument is that it is impossible, this is what you must disprove.

Prove to me and the rest of us that it is "impossible" to replicate that result. Not that you "think" somebody couldn't do it, not that it's "unlikely" that somebody could do it, you're going to have to prove that it is "impossible" to do it. Nothing less will do.

Here is an example of the 5:02 TAS of Super Mario 64 being played back on a real N64 with a real copy of Super Mario 64.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsnbYaCGwHk
Your job now is to prove that the same CANNOT be done with that 819 hit run of Area 6.

Either step the fuck up or back the fuck off.

>>690885
yeah

>>691021
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Verified.html
Those are the ones that people have bothered to play back on console so far.

Choose your favourites. Click the "watch now using youtube" or whatever to watch it on an emulator, click the link in the descriptions for the console playback versions.

>>691010

Yes it is a fucking reason because you can't fucking slow down and turn back time yourself. It's not irrelevant to Star Fox 64 because you're not only requiring perfect lock-on shot execution to the point where it's split second timing every shot but you're also firing lasers at over 15-30 inputs a second.

The wall glitch in Megaman 2 Metal Man stage requires you to put the Item 1 up to have megaman hit EXACTLY 16 frames at a specific spot to zip through, which is practically impossible for anyone to do with such relative ease without using a tool to even see the glitched area by removing the sprite overlay in the first place.

>>691010

>Says a TAS can be done in real life unassisted
>posts a video link of a video that's still TOOL ASSISTED

full retard and nice strawman.

>>691054
>>691072
>My claim is as follows:
>That if you take a real N64 and a real (Japanese) copy of Star Fox 64, then input exactly the same button commands at exactly the same times, you will get exactly the same result as that video.
>Since your argument is that it is impossible, this is what you must disprove.
Please, learn to read.

>>691079

Actually your original claim was that "Everything done in a TAS is always possible" and i countered saying it isn't using a different example and you say "No you can't use Megaman stick to Starfox" and then you use an example yourself that isn't "Starfox."

I'll reiterate case in point that firing those lasers that fast requires button inputs of over 15-30 presses in a single second which is IMPOSSIBLE for a person to do normally WITHOUT TOOL ASSISTANCE.

>>691097
>I'll reiterate case in point that firing those lasers that fast requires button inputs of over 15-30 presses in a single second which is IMPOSSIBLE for a person to do normally WITHOUT TOOL ASSISTANCE.
Okay, can you prove this?
I'm hearing a lot of "I think" here...

>>691105

In general a turbo button controller can fire up to between 15-30 times a second depending on the controller used. For an example a Hori arcade stick on fastest turbo setting puts in 20 inputs a second. If you did a bunch of crouching jabs or shorts with say Ryu in SF and then tried to even remotely match that speed you'd fail miserably. There's no way you can fire lasers that fast normally in Starfox 64 without some form of tool assistance.

>>691132
You could disqualify just about any record depending on how narrowly you define "tool assistance".

Regardless, I've already stated my simplified point twice now. If a given human being isn't fast enough to input the correct commands at the correct times, that is their problem.

The only way it is "impossible" is if the same button presses do not give the same result on the console, so that is what you must prove.

That's "all".

>>691157

Because it is TOOL ASSISTED. If something is TOOL ASSISTED to the point where certain physical dexterity requirements for a given task or challenge is impossible to do normally then the entire run isn't possible to do normally on normal controllers and normal speed. That Starfox 64 game being tool assisted was most definitely slowed down at points to get some kills, you don't get the ability to choose how to slowdown within the game itself without some outside TOOL assisting.

>If a given human being isn't fast enough to input the correct commands at the correct times, that is their problem.

Then by that logic it is impossible to do a TAS normally for a person. Therefore your argument does not hold merit about all TAS being always possible. Even if in this case the correct commands being "Press A 400 times in 4 seconds."

Yeah, I thought the trick with Starfox 64 is that pressing the fire button actually fires off four shots in a row, so continual rapid fire as fast as you can doesn't actually involve pressing the button that often, just every four shots.

>>691195
I never said that "anybody could do it", we're talking about stuff that is current world record level and above current world record level.

All I need is the "possibility" that a human being may someday exist that could press the right buttons at the right time. Either you prove that could never happen under any circumstance, or you prove that those button presses would not give that result on a real console.

Since the first is impossible to disprove, your only option is the second one, like I keep telling you.

>>691221

There is no human that can press a button that fast. You're expecting a person to press a button, release a button, press it again and trigger the signal of the button contact press inside all faster while the signal from the first press is still going forth and repeat all within a second. What you are asking is beyond the ability of physical possibility for human hands and reaction because you are literally asking someone to be reacting and pressing at at least 100ms or faster manually. Therefore it is impossible and quite easy to disprove.

The first thing I do is do Corneria B, go to Meteo's special exit, Katina (I stall for time and shoot down the mother ship after racking up some kills), Then go to Sector X because fuck Solar. Obviously, the best choice is to get to MacBeth and then go to Area 6. If you haven't caught on by now, it's a score route.

>>691240
>Therefore it is impossible and quite easy to disprove.
Nah.

>under any circumstance
That's the key phrase here. You're trying to prove that it's impossible now and forever, that there is no situation or circumstance that could ever occur in all of human history to allow somebody to do it.

Too many variables, too many unknowns, you cannot speak for the next 5 or 10 billion years or however long of human history. Therefore you cannot disprove it.

>>691270

5 or 10 billion years later doesn't matter. We're dealing with the here and now and not rhetoric about things in the future that aren't relevant.

You cannot progress beyond physical limitations of your natural means. If this was truly possible without tool assistance being a game running slowed down for optimal reaction or impossibly fast and frequent button inputs then it would be possible to do said TAS without tool assistance. But since it is not possible therefore it is disproven.

There's even other things in fact as well like the physics behind a button reaching contact with the circuit underneath and sending a signal and the electrical impulse being sent to the game to trigger an action, the fact that you think you can interrupt that action with another action before the button resets and can be pressed again is what you are saying "You cannot disprove" when that would literally be in the realm of time travel or prescience.

>>691270

>Too many variables, too many unknowns, you cannot speak for the next 5 or 10 billion years or however long of human history. Therefore you cannot disprove it.

Actually i can. If we haven't had wings, feathers, ability to lay eggs and the ability to fly since over 1 billion years ago i'm willing to wager we still won't have any of those characteristics 5 to 10 billion years later. But that's digressing into the realm of Biology and not Physics.

>>691270

>That's the key phrase here. You're trying to prove that it's impossible now and forever, that there is no situation or circumstance that could ever occur in all of human history to allow somebody to do it.

Nobody will ever outrun nor fly higher than a supersonic jet, dive deeper and longer than a submarine all on their own without the aid of any tools, devices or constructs be it now or in 5 billion years.

>>691321
I'm still waiting for you to define "tool", right now it's a little too vague.
>Turbofire controller?
>Any controller is a tool?
>Brain implant?
>Genetic alterations?
>A fucking radioactive spider comes down to bite you?
Where does it begin, where does it end?

Regardless you're dragging this off topic. What i *MEAN* with my original comment, start to end, is that the TAS results work just fine on a console *IF* you can find somebody to do it. Strawmanning by saying "Oh you'll never find somebody" is beside that point.

>>691328
>>691346
Because as we all know, those things have lots in common with playing Star Fox 64 really well.

>>690430
>hating on the necklace
Nigger, I will slap you.

>>691837
can anyone explain why you could take an acid trip on certain levels?

Asteroid and sector x?

>>690241

Katt and Bill replace them.

>>692979

Hyper Space

Ooh.

>>691398

Because they are tools. Turbofire is not a natural human ability, you're pressing and using inputs beyond your physical limitations. Neither an N64 controller nor a human being has those abilities.

You will NEVER find someone who can progress beyond their physical limitations to do inputs faster than their abilities give. It's tool assisted with slowing down movement and giving inhuman inputs beyond physical possibility. That's not a fucking strawman, it's fucking logic.

>>691398

>Because as we all know, those things have lots in common with playing Star Fox 64 really well.

And yet you bring up subjects like radioactive spiders, brain implants, genetic implants and implications of being able to press buttons faster than time and to the level of prescience are also common with playing Star Fox 64 too right?

>>693514
>>693519
Whatever dude, you're determined to argue something that isn't the point and won't even try to come up with a counterargument to my point, so I'm not even going to bother.

Have fun arguing with yourself.

>>693618

>I can't come up with a logical rebuttal
>I'm going to pretend to claim victory and walk away

Good job son, school starts at 9am.

>>691398
>>693514
>>693519
>>693618
>>694094
Jesus Christ, shut up. No one cares.

>>692979
Not an acid trip, a WARP.

>>694094
How am I supposed to argue with somebody who won't discuss the point?
>My claim is as follows:
>That if you take a real N64 and a real (Japanese) copy of Star Fox 64, then input exactly the same button commands at exactly the same times, you will get exactly the same result as that video.
>Since your argument is that it is impossible, this is what you must disprove.
Discuss that or don't bother replying.

>>695359

Dude i explained that you can't do inputs that fucking fast, even if you take a japanese copy of Starfox a human being cannot react or input that fucking fast because a tool assisted video uses things varying from rewind, savestates, slowdowns, code overlays etc. Do i need to explain it any more? Tool assisted videos make things possible that you cannot do PHYSICALLY. It is beyond human physical possibility, therefore it's not possible to do everything in a TAS.

>>695359

>That if you take a real N64 and a real (Japanese) copy of Star Fox 64, then input exactly the same button commands at exactly the same times, you will get exactly the same result as that video.

Actually you're the one who has yet to prove that. You're arguing on a false negative since you yourself have not physically been able to recreate everything in that video physically without the aid of any tools.

I'm playing the 3DS version, and a thought occurs to me.
What happens when you take warps? The outpost is fucking wrecked and you're unable to be found for what is probably several in-universe hours.

Same applies on Sector X. The secret weapon is still around and wrecking havoc.

>>695510
>>695516
http://tasvideos.org/ConsoleVerifiedMovies.html

>>695718

a) They're still tool assisted runs. They weren't done UNASSISTED.
b) None of them are Starfox as you yourself suggested

>>695510
See, like I keep explaining, that's not the problem here. You keep asking:
>Who would do it?
When the important question is:
>Does it work the same way on a console, or is it only possible thanks to a quirk in the emulator or not?

Who would do it? IRRELEVANT. We are not debating that, the base assumption is that we've got somebody who can press the right buttons at the right times, what we are debating isn't that but rather would it still work.

if you cannot manage to stop discussing the side topic, then forget it.

>>695516
>>695778
Only "does it still work on console?" is important, not "who will do it?"

What I've provided are proof of concepts, what you need to show is that it CANNOT be done on a real concept, REGARDLESS OF WHO OR WHAT IS PROVIDING THE BUTTON INPUTS.

>>695827

Whether it works the same way or not is irrelevant. Whether it is humanly possible to recreate it on your own physical abilities is the important part here. When you use tool assistance you're able to do things you can't humanly possibly do normally under normal play. Tool assistance under emulator play or console play is still an ASSISTED play and therefore is using constructs to progress beyond human limitations, therefore it's not possible for a human player to do normally because you're using things to progress beyond physical possibility.

>>695827

>Only "does it still work on console?" is important, not "who will do it?"

No it's not. You're the one who brought up being able to do it without tool assistance in the first place in being able to accurately recreate the same run without tool assistance. And yet all you keep linking to are videos still done WITH tool assistance. Then you claim you can't use other sources like megaman as examples and to only use starfox then you yourself use examples that aren't starfox. None of those videos in that link you showed were Starfox runs. It's quite clear they cannot be done on a real concept because there are presses and inputs that are done faster than the human can possibly do.

>>695827

And yet proof of concepts that inputs being placed beyond human ability and physical means isn't a proof of concept either? You still haven't linked to a video that recreates a TAS without using tool assistance in exact duplication and execution.

>>695915
>Whether it works the same way or not is irrelevant
Except that's the absolute entirety of my argument, nothing more nothing less, so not it is not.

>Whether it is humanly possible to recreate it on your own physical abilities is the important part here.
I cannot PERSONALLY do it, we're using a hypothetical human here who can do it. HOW he can do it is not important, he can do it. This is not up for debate

>>695919
hypothetical
hy·po·thet·i·cal
[hahy-puh-thet-i-kuhl]
1.
assumed by hypothesis; supposed: a hypothetical case.
2.
of, pertaining to, involving, or characterized by hypothesis: hypothetical reasoning.
3.
given to making hypotheses.

The person who can do it exists hypothetically, move on to what my argument is about instead?

>>695921
see:
>>695718

>But but but that's still tool assisted!
Not in the same context it is not, it is just for a consistent demonstration of the result. Get this: Whether a human or a machine pushes the buttons isn't important, not at all. What matters is that the result is consistent, That's what I've been arguing since the start and nothing else.

Can't you TAS aspies discuss this in another thread? You're killing this one.

>>695523
>What happens when you take warps? The outpost is fucking wrecked and you're unable to be found for what is probably several in-universe hours.

There's a Super Nintendo in Fox's Arwing. He can chill out for a few hours while he waits for rescue.

And it's not like he's the only one fighting against Andross. The way I see it someone else has the mission to eliminate the Secret Weapon

>>695523
I feel like they'd be terrible warps if they took so long.
I figured the funky colours were due to faster than light travel.

>>695778
>http://tasvideos.org/ConsoleVerifiedMovies.html
>Since they started, tool assisted speedruns were designed to make it theoretically possible, given super-human abilities, to recreate them on an actual console. Using special hardware, several movies have been shown with video evidence to play correctly on the console, and are below.

>>665720
This is the route I took. I wish there was a way to get to Zoness without bothering with Aquas. Like maybe Corneria -> Sector Y -> Katina -> Zoness -> Macbeth -> Area 6 -> Venom, but it was never meant to be. Personally, that would be my favorite route if possible, but Sector X is cool enough.

>>696061

>I cannot PERSONALLY do it, we're using a hypothetical human here who can do it. HOW he can do it is not important, he can do it. This is not up for debate

A hypothetical human which does not exist and therefore still does not ever exist to even remotely reach the same levels with tool assistance. Not even the fastest input presser in the world can exceed certain turbo macros which are used by tool assisted videos. There are human limitations, to exceed that human limitations via tool assistance by logic means it's not possible to do a TAS by natural means without tool assistance.

>Not in the same context it is not, it is just for a consistent demonstration of the result. Get this: Whether a human or a machine pushes the buttons isn't important, not at all. What matters is that the result is consistent, That's what I've been arguing since the start and nothing else.

Actually it is important. If a human cannot reach those levels without assistance therefore it's not possible to recreate the same run without tool assistance. A human being still cannot fly without the assistance of aeronautical constructs. A tool assisted speedrun cannot be done physically possible without the assistance of tools therefore a tool assisted speedrun is not possible to do without the assistance of tools on pure physical ability.

>>696490

>Quotes paragraph
>doesn't read or understand it

All they did was recreate the same run using TOOL ASSISTANCE under the actual hardware. They didn't recreate the actual run WITHOUT TOOL ASSISTANCE. You have still therefore not proved that you can recreate the same TAS WITHOUT TOOL ASSISTANCE therefore it's not possible to do so on pure physical human ability alone.

Read the part where you quoted that specifies SUPER-HUMAN ABILITIES. Abilities like slowing down time, rewinding states, seeing overlays of graphics as raw triangles/squares/shapes. It is giving people SUPER-HUMAN abilities, abilities HUMANS do not have, therefore it's not possible to do a TAS on ones own self without assistance.

Thank you for unraveling your own argument with that quotation.

>>696767
>>696792
It. Does. Not. Matter.

We are working with theoretical here. Who this person is or how he can do it isn't important, we're assuming for the purpose of this discussion that he does exist, you can pretend that he's Superman or the Flash if it makes you feel better.
>But he couldn't exist! / the controller cannot input faster enough / whatever
Doesn't. Matter. Any conjecture you come up with on this front is not relevant because we're using a hypothetical where this doesn't matter. You can come up with literally any reason you like why you think a human couldn't do it, because we're using a hypothetical where there exists already a human that can do it.
It's like you're legitimately retarded.

>>696792
>Thank you for unraveling your own argument with that quotation.
That wasn't me, Strawman harder.

Right now, what you're doing is basically saying that because nobody has yet done an exact, absurdly specific list of button presses in a game yet that matches a given TAS identically, that they are impossible.
It's an argument so stupid that I don't know how to begin telling you that you're an idiot.

>>696919

>We are working with theoretical here. Who this person is or how he can do it isn't important, we're assuming for the purpose of this discussion that he does exist, you can pretend that he's Superman or the Flash if it makes you feel better.

So yes lets use fictional people or people who 'theoretically' may or may not exist to prove your point. What point was that? Oh that's right you have none because you can't come up with solid conjecture.
>Doesn't. Matter. Any conjecture you come up with on this front is not relevant because we're using a hypothetical where this doesn't matter. You can come up with literally any reason you like why you think a human couldn't do it, because we're using a hypothetical where there exists already a human that can do it.
It's like you're legitimately retarded.

But it does fucking matter, an empty glass can theoretically hold a volume of water but if you're somewhere where there is no water then you're obviously not holding a glass of water and if there's no water in that glass then, well guess what? There's no water in that glass. You're using a hypothetical of a person who may or may not exist and arguing that they've already done it. They haven't done it and you act like they have.

>Right now, what you're doing is basically saying that because nobody has yet done an exact, absurdly specific list of button presses in a game yet that matches a given TAS identically, that they are impossible.
It's an argument so stupid that I don't know how to begin telling you that you're an idiot.

No i'd say you're the idiot. It's exactly the point. If nobody has done it then as of right now and under current situations it's not possible so therefore it is impossible to do right now. No human can recreate the effects of a TAS completely identically and exceed human inputs, reactions, electrical signals from feedback and tactile response of button inputs beyond physical movement and limitations.

>>696919

Not really a strawman when it was your own quote and link.

Until someone can exceed and replicate a TAS without tool assistance then your argument of it being possible to do so without tool assistance doesn't hold merit if nobody has actually done it. As of right now it has not been done and is therefore deemed impossible to do so without tool assistance. Until you actually do so without tool assistance then it is not possible at all. An object can be deemed unbreakable until it has been sufficiently proven and demonstrated to be broken, if that object has not been broken it is still therefore unbreakable. A TAS speedrun is impossible to do by regular play without tool assistance, until it is proven to be recreated and reached to the same level without tool assistance it is deemed impossible.

>>696957
>I don't think it's possible for the given situation to arise so I refuse to discuss you point!
>Nobody has managed it yet, therefore it is impossible to do ever!

Why did I even bother trying to have a logical discussion with you?

>>696983

You aren't even using logical principles. Fuck you even used Superman and Flash as examples to argue for your position on why a TAS is possible without tool assistance. Fictional characters. That have their own laws and different limitations. Superman isn't even HUMAN if you want debate about that so you can't even argue with hypothetical fictional characters properly.

Let me simplify it for you. Has a TAS Speedrun been recreated without tool assistance to exact or exceeded levels? If the answer is yes then it is possible, however since none has been given or demonstrated and as of current does not exist therefore the answer is no so the logical outcome is it is impossible.

If and only if it can be done then it is possible but it cannot be done as of yet so it is impossible because of variables like i don't know, maybe the fundamental laws of physics and biology.

>>696973
>your own quote and link.
No.

>Repeats his argument that nobody has managed it so far, which means it's impossible.

No. Exceedingly unlikely, yes. Impossible? No. Give an infinite number of monkeys and infinite amount of N64 controllers with an infinite amount of time and eventually you'd get a TAS.

>>697038

No you wouldn't, nice try using infinite theorem though.

The flaw in your argument using this theorem is that

a) The monkeys are still limited by their own physical limitations
b) Are still limited by the speed and inputs of the electrical signals from the buttons on the controller
c) Are not imbued with 'superhuman' tool assistance

Even an infinite number of monkeys cannot fly like a bird individually on their own ability without aid of constructs or machines.

Gotta be this.

High score is king, and Macbeth is probably the most fun stage anyway, next to Area 6.

>>697073
Whoops, retard alert.

>>697038

You can throw an infinite number of monkeys off a cliff, they're still not going to fly. Eventually you'll have a large mountain of monkey corpses but the monkey at the top still won't fly and they still won't recreate a TAS

>>697056
But this isn't flying, this is pushing buttons, which humans are preternaturally evolved to do.

>>697026
>>697056
>You aren't even using logical principles. Fuck you even used Superman and Flash as examples to argue for your position on why a TAS is possible without tool assistance. Fictional characters. That have their own laws and different limitations. Superman isn't even HUMAN if you want debate about that so you can't even argue with hypothetical fictional characters properly.
Your mind cannot seem to comprehend the fact that the person doing the inputs is not relevant.

I'm trying to get you to ignore that part for now because it doesn't matter.
>What's your favourite pizza flavour?
>We don't have any pizza and can't get any so it doesn't matter
>No, I'm just asking you what your favourite flavour is
>It's impossible for us to have any pizza right now so there's no point in me discussing it
>Okay then, hypothetically if we had some pizza or could get some, what would your favourite flavour be?
>It's impossible so no I refuse
>What? Just pretend if you have to for fuck's sake, we're not discussing if we could get any here I'm just asking you a simple question
>*insert 100 more back and forth replies with you bitching that we can't get pizza and me trying to get through your thick skull that isn't the point*
Work with me here, for fuck's sake.

>>697091

And you nor that monkey cannot push those buttons beyond the limits of what a human or a monkey can physically achieve without assistance of some sort.

>>697097

>Your mind cannot seem to comprehend the fact that the person doing the inputs is not relevant.

And your mind cannot comprehend the concept that human physical limitations and limitations between physical response and electrical signals are revelant.

In your stupid pizza analogy it would be more accurate when using discussing pizza flavour if one has not eaten pizza before or if one can no longer procure pizza for that evening or time in question.

>>697102
The world record has been set! No human can ever possibly break this record!

>>697119
Magic, done by FUCKING MIRACLES. Whatever, It doesn't matter.

My point still remains exactly as follows:
>If the exact same electronic inputs as were done for the TAS are done for the exact same game on the exact same console, you would get the exact same end result.
That's it. Doesn't matter who does the inputs, doesn't matter how the inputs are done, it only matters that IF the inputs were done, the result would be the same. That's all.

>>697172

And world records get revoked if they've been achieved using performance enhancements or aids. You know what you would call TOOL ASSISTANCE in a way.

Jesus fuck you shits are still arguing?

I just wanted a nice StarFox thread you anuses.

>>697218
But they haven't settled the pedantic argument yet!

>>697179

>Magic, done by FUCKING MIRACLES. Whatever, It doesn't matter.

It does matter, if you're going to use magic as an argument then you're arguing beyond the laws of physics which means there's no point for logical discussion then because you're not arguing from a point of logic, you're arguing from a point of fiction.

>That's it. Doesn't matter who does the inputs, doesn't matter how the inputs are done, it only matters that IF the inputs were done, the result would be the same. That's all.

If and only if they were done at all and the inputs do matter because there is a key component here that you seem to not understand of PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS. Those exact same inputs cannot be done physically without assistance. You do not seem to understand that in recording a TAS there's a different speed they are playing at and sometimes there's a different graphical overlay on their end. How the inputs are done and who does them matter because of the PHYSICAL ability. You can do a TAS and recreate it if you remove the PHYSICAL need to actually do the inputs, but by doing so it's not an unassisted run and is still tool assisted and can therefore not be allowed as an unassisted play. Therefore it's not possible.

>>697240
>My point still remains exactly as follows:
>>If the exact same electronic inputs as were done for the TAS are done for the exact same game on the exact same console, you would get the exact same end result.
>That's it. Doesn't matter who does the inputs, doesn't matter how the inputs are done, it only matters that IF the inputs were done, the result would be the same. That's all.
IF
Pretend for one moment if you have to, you thick headed simpleton, that it is possible. IF the right inputs were given, the result would be the same.

Doesn't matter that you think it's impossible, if the inputs were given, the same result would be observed.

I've never met anybody as determined to miss the point as you.

>>697271
What about the fact there is a contact delay and that a second button press in that time would do nothing, which can be worked around by slowing the game down for a TAS, thus having the contact delay pass faster, in terms of gameplay.

Just someone who has read most of the argument you two have had and decided to make a comment.

>>697271

Maybe you should understand the fact that these inputs are being done BEYOND a HUMAN PHYSICAL ABILITY to do so UNASSISTED. Those TAS are done given SUPERHUMAN abilities that YOU nor ANYONE possess naturally and under control.

>Pretend for one moment if you have to, you thick headed simpleton, that it is possible. IF the right inputs were given, the result would be the same.

Inputs by what? What is doing the inputs? A programmed robot specifically timed for every input? That's still not a human so it's still not possible for a human to replicate the actions and sequences, it would only prove that a robot could do it and not a human.

>Doesn't matter that you think it's impossible, if the inputs were given, the same result would be observed.

Which has only been done with TOOL ASSISTANCE. It has not been done UNASSISTED, therefore it's impossible. The fact that you nor anyone real has done these same inputs unassisted and been able to exceed or replicate the result means it is impossible.

>>697298
Maybe they hooked the signal input directly to their brain to circumnavigate the need to individually press the buttons, I don't care and it isn't really the point. All that matters is that IF the same inputs WERE given, that the same result would be observed.

>>697307
The exact same inputs as the TAS have just been put into a console with the same game. The resulting actions on screen are identical
TRUE / FALSE (pick one)

>>697298

Dude i already mentioned similar concepts and the idea of limitations on physical feedbacks and signals. He doesn't understand that TAS are beyond just exact button presses and there's things like time being slowed down and even rewinded at points and even the entire game being seen on different overlays.

>>697325
>Maybe they hooked the signal input directly to their brain to circumnavigate the need to individually press the buttons, I don't care and it isn't really the point. All that matters is that IF the same inputs WERE given, that the same result would be observed.
One reply and I can you are obviously a troll. Just go back to >>>/v/ where you belong.

>>697325

>The exact same inputs as the TAS have just been put into a console with the same game. The resulting actions on screen are identical
TRUE / FALSE (pick one)

Were those actions and inputs done physically without any assistance? Was a human doing the inputs without any assistance and playing normally with the natural controls? If any of these answers are no then your hypothesis is irrelevant due to the fact that it's not:

a) A human playing the game unassisted doing the inputs
b) A construct or device assisting or doing the inputs itself

>>697331
>>697334
>Still refuses to answer the basic question even when simplified to a basic true / false answer
>Insists on arguing semantics that are not even part of what I am discussing or part of the point I am making.

>>697325

>Maybe they hooked the signal input directly to their brain to circumnavigate the need to individually press the buttons, I don't care and it isn't really the point. All that matters is that IF the same inputs WERE given, that the same result would be observed.

Actually it is the point. If they hooked the signal input directly to their brain that's a form of TOOL ASSISTANCE. Therefore that renders your demonstration null and void of replicating a TAS without tool assistance.

>>697351
Pick either true or false, you don't get to write a short essay on the subject it's just one or the other.

>>697361
>Controllers count as tool assistance
>Consoles count as tool assistance
>Cartridges and CDs etc count as tool assistance
You're the biggest tool of them all.

Just answer the question.

>>697390

Now you're straw manning so hard that there's a Wizard of Oz play in town right now and the part of the Scarecrow is being played by you.

Controllers aren't tool assistance on the basis that you actually play with that controller normally.
Consoles aren't tool assistance on the basis that you play the game on the console normally.
Cartridges and CD's are the formats the game are on.

Nowhere in any of my posts did i mention any of these subjects as tool assistance.

>>697390

>Pick either true or false, you don't get to write a short essay on the subject it's just one or the other.

Actually i don't have to answer when it's a loaded question bearing a null hypothesis. Answering true or false to either would still not prove the ability to replicate a TAS by natural human play and input without assistance.

>>697410
The exact same inputs as the TAS have just been put into a console with the same game. The resulting actions on screen are identical
TRUE / FALSE (pick one)

Pick one and only one of the two, feel free to explain why you picked it afterward.

>>697420
>Answering true or false to either would still not prove the ability to replicate a TAS by natural human play and input without assistance.
Which is fine, since that's not my point.

Pick one.

>>697218
I'm honestly impressed by how unrelenting they are. I wonder for how long this will go on. Maybe we should just make a new Star Fox thread.

>>697421

And i asked what is doing the input. Is it a human or a robot? Is the human in your stupid assumption neurally wired into the game using electrons of the brain signals to react faster than is possible physically or is he playing it normally without assistance? Have you shown a video of these done without tool assistance replicating or exceeding a TAS video?

>>697426

Then your point has diverged from your original point and branched into a different unrelated one altogether. You're asking a loaded question bearing a null hypothesis on either answer.

>>697436
It doesn't matter, all I'm arguing is that if the exact same inputs as the TAS have just been put into a console with the same game. The resulting actions on screen will be identical.

EVERYTHING not pertaining directly to that core point is irrelevant, as that core point is all I am claiming right at this very moment.

>>697442
I cannot continue farther or touch your "point" until you answer me.

If you carefully observe Fox and James, in 64, you'll see that they have subtle differences beyond sunglasses.

Like his fur is darker or something.

>>697447

>It doesn't matter, all I'm arguing is that if the exact same inputs as the TAS have just been put into a console with the same game. The resulting actions on screen will be identical.

No you were actually originally arguing that it is possible to recreate everything in a TAS can be achieved by normal play which it cannot because there are factors beyond human ability used.
>EVERYTHING not pertaining directly to that core point is irrelevant, as that core point is all I am claiming right at this very moment.
Everything is relevant because you're omitting details that highly important in the outcome of the example listed. You cannot just omit things on whim just because they do not support your example.

>I cannot continue farther or touch your "point" until you answer me.

I'm not answering a loaded question. That's like if someone asked you to answer "Have you stopped having sex with children?" Answering yes or no would twist and imply the fact you had sex with children even if you never did based on the simple fact that you bothered to address and answer the question.

Whether it's True or False in your question is irrelevant since a human being still cannot do everything in a tool assisted video without assistance hence the null hypothesis.

>>697474
See, the problem is you've been misrepresenting my argument to make it easier to attack since minute 1.

My argument has been, from the very beginning, that IF, somehow, somewhere, at some time, someone managed to repeat the same inputs on a console, then the result would be the same. Regardless of any impracticability or implausibility, the "how" was not part of my original claim, only the result is.

You keep trying to pretend that it's null but that's been my entire point since the very beginning. You've simply been choosing to interpret my comment however you like and all attempts to get you to just simply answer my core question are met with you sidestepping it again just so you can attack a claim I have never made instead.

>>697513

Actually i haven't, your own quote.

>Everything done in a TAS is always possible for a human being, the catch is that it is, generally speaking, absurdly unlikely.

Now the fact is everything done in a TAS isn't always possible for a human being because there are things being done BEYOND HUMAN control and ABILITY.

I have not misrepresented your argument one bit. I have claimed that there are a large number of factors rendering this impossible due to the fact that the mere factor of tool assistance makes you able to do things not possible when playing a game normally when playing without tool assistance. When i presented an example of such things that are quite impossible to do without tool assistance you disavowed the example and told me to stick to the game in question only. Then you yourself broke your own rules by using a different game as an example unrelated to Starfox. You talk about sidestepping but you're the one using things like fantasy elements like magic and even fictional superheroes to address your own points which make absolutely no sense when it's not relevant to the here and now.

>>697547
Then I misspoke slightly and confused you, my argument is as above as clear as I can make it for you.

The exact same inputs as the TAS have just been put into a console with the same game. The resulting actions on screen are identical
TRUE / FALSE (pick one)

If you pick false, explain why and justify your reasoning well.
If you pick true, then I am right and you admit to this.
If you say anything at all other than one of those two words or never reply again, then you know I am right but simply do not wish to admit it.

Choose your poison.

>>697567

>If you pick false, explain why and justify your reasoning well.
>If you pick true, then I am right and you admit to this.
>If you say anything at all other than one of those two words or never reply again, then you know I am right but simply do not wish to admit it.

I already knew where you were going with this. Like i said before it's a loaded question bearing a null hypothesis. Me answering to any of these doesn't change the fact that you cannot proceed beyond human limitations in a TAS without tool assistance. Whatever i answer doesn't change that but you're presenting it like no matter what is answer this factor will change and acceptance must be taken.

I'm sorry you do not get to logic trap people like that. You're changing from your original point and are resorting to hard fallacies and diversion.

>>697578
>Me answering to any of these doesn't change the fact that you cannot proceed beyond human limitations in a TAS without tool assistance.
Which isn't my point.
Which means it's a strawman.
Which means that I am right and I'm done here as a result.
gg, no re. Cya never.

>>697567

False and here's why.

A TAS is not played at 100% speed. Sometimes it is played at even 10% speed and rerecorded and rewound allowing for more inputs and directions and reactions than one that is feasibly possible. If you were to take the game of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo you can slow down the game speed enough to the point where T.Hawk can do a standing 720 command grab super when physically at 100% speed you cannot do this due to the frames on his jump being too short not putting him grounded long enough. If the exact same inputs were done at the same 100% speed of the game you'd have a T.Hawk jumping in the air. The fact that his simple slowdown allows you to execute something that is physically impossible to do normally without assistance means the exact same action does not mean the exact same result.

>>697582

Actually it was your point. You're the one strawmanning and changing the original viewpoint and now you use a False Dichotomy to claim victory because you couldn't prove or argue your point presented using facts within the realm of physics and logic.

Someone help me out here: Is this argument the sort of shit I'm allowed to report? I'm genuinely curious.
Some global rule has to have been violated here, 3, 6, 10, whatever, multiple people have complained and told them to stop, it's completely ruined the thread, and yet the pedantic bullshit continues to rage on after 100+ posts.

>>697641
>some rules have been violated
>is it ok to report?
Seriously?
Do you have NO thought process at all? Of course it's okay to report shit that violates the rules, that's what you're supposed to do.

>>697647
But I'm not entirely sure rules have been violated is the thing.
I mean, they're still TECHNICALLY arguing about Star Fox on some level so it isn't ENTIRELY off topic.
It is KIND OF a discussion and not definitely JUST spam.
It's hard to tell whether I'm allowed to report or not.
Like, obviously, if this was furry porn or whatever, or blatant shitposting, yeah, I'd definitely report and wouldn't have to ask, but this? I just don't know.

god damn faggots stop complaining and post some starfox

>>697457
Fox McCloud is half-black.

>>698131
gasp

So... What's everyone's opinion on the features in Starfox 2, like the real time mission map and the transforming ships?

I've never played it, but it looked like they brought some of that back in Command on the DS.

Also, if I can find a control hack for Command, is it worth playing?

>>698417
>So... What's everyone's opinion on the features in Starfox 2, like the real time mission map and the transforming ships?

The realtime mission map is pretty good. The transforming ships are cool too.

Command is alright. It's not rail-shooting, though. It's all all-range mode stuff, and it gets repetitive.

>>698436
It's got weird dialogue though.
Panther suddenly talks in the third person, Leon seems like he's off in his own world

>>698449
The story itself is kind of weird. Nobody makes sense. Everybody is strange.

>>698417
Star Fox 2 is my favorite game of the Star Fox series.
I love the real time tactics shit. I love the mech form. I love pretty much everything about the game.
I'd kill for a proper follow up with better controls, much more content, and more randomized elements that are different every playthrough.

Star Fox Command is my least favorite game of the Star Fox series.
It feels like 2 if everything that made 2 good was stripped away.
It's turn based instead of real time which kills all the intensity for me, the game is broken up into multiple short play cessions that don't last long enough for any consequences for your actions to come back and bite you in the ass, which ruins the point of it being a strategy game, and it feels like there's somehow LESS variety than Star Fox 2 had.
It ends up playing so differently that all the games really have in common are being in all-range mode all the time, and controlling your character on a map screen.
I'm not even going to talk about the story and characterization and shit, because goddamn.

>>698583
Well, at least everyone having different stats is fun.

>Everything done in a TAS is always possible for a human being, the catch is that it is, generally speaking, absurdly unlikely.

I'd just like to point out that there are TAS runs of, if I recall, Pokemon, that require the player to input both up and down simultaneously on the d-pad, something that is physically impossible to do, not just for a human, but for any physical interaction with the system, except perhaps taking the faceplate off, removing the top of the d-pad, and then pressing the rubber domes (or whatever the gameboy uses) down at the same time, which then is also tool assisted, as in a screwdriver is literally a tool.

As for Starfox proper, my favorite run is probably
>>665694

Please tell me I wasn't the only kid who thought that you got to play the robots when you first saw the opening scene to Sector Y. I was so fucking hyped and then it blew up.

>>698685
Sure, but while there were far fewer ships in Star Fox 2, the differences between those ships were more meaningful.
There was a tradeoff. If you wanted speed you had to sacrifice health, and vice versa. And both speed and health were important in Star Fox 2, so the characters you picked mattered.

Miyu and Fay all the way though, because who takes damage? Seriously.

In Command though, there really isn't much tradeoff. Some ships are good, others are basically crap. Neither health nor time are as big an issue as they were in 2.
On top of that you don't really get to CHOOSE what ships to use a lot of the time. You have to take what the story gives you.
It feels like a lot of the point of having different ships in the first place was lost somewhere in Command.

>>698764
I can't help but feel if a new Star Fox was made (oh god please please), that it should be a combination of Star Fox 2's free moving world, but with plotlines attached to planets, perhaps changing depending on where you go and what you do.

Hell, maybe even throw in some ship customization or something. Just keep the fighting itself arcade and make sure not to ruin it with characters like Krystal.

>>698764
Well, at least Star Wolf was fun.
Panther had his massive damage lasers and Leon had auto rapid fire lockon shots.

>>698782
No yeah, don't get me wrong, some of the ships were pretty nice, and enjoyable enough to use.
Just, the fact that there are different ships at all doesn't seem to matter as much as it did in 2, I think. It just feels like different ships for the sake of having different ships.

You people people need to understand the absolute maximum possible reaction time a human could possibly have is ~100ms
But the average Joe should have a reaction anywhere from 150-250ms
Many TAS techniques could simply not be executed by a human being even utilizing muscle memory.

How stupid do you have to be to believe it is possible? Like how far removed from reality are you people?

Also, Aquas is a pretty fun level .
I don't get the hate

What's wrong with me? I've gotten all 100s before.

>>699149
This is more like it.
Fucked you up, medium route.

>>698793
Well, it makes you go "Wow, this is a lot like Starfox 2"

>>705192
I guess, but then you actually play it, and if you're familiar at all with Star Fox 2, you realize how it's different in all the worst ways possible.

I usually go Y - Independence Day Planet - X - Z - Hardmode Defence Level - Hard Andross

I usually like Shitty Sludge Planet but having to go through Shitty Water Submarine Planet is a pain in the ass.
I fucking love Macbeth and that other planet with the tank, and I like facing Star Wolf on that shitty orbital platform, but Easy Andross is just disgusting.

>>667173
OH FUCK

>>666479
Are you in front of the train?

Shabeedee do dada

>>710167
Wa-wing damage