/vr/ - Retro Games

Fuck that shit so much

>"hey hipster bros lets play suppa nintendo"

>I sit down

>Shitty ass aspect ratio

>mfw I'm the only one there who actually cares about consoles

This is what I get for being /fa/ and making friends

Are you saying I shouldn't play 320x200 games on my 1920x1200 monitor?

That's because they like it when the image fills the entire screen irregardless of if it's supposed to or not.

>>672163
More like you shouldn't play them in 16:9 or 16:10 when their native ratio is 4:3

If people want to play like that, it's their choice. Why do you care so much?

>>672182
Because it's wrong
when you do something wrong you need to be corrected

OP is a troll. That is a the Wii VC port which plays in 16:9. Look closely, nothing is stretched.

>>672182
I can't understand their choice. It looks hideous to the point of being insulting.

Though I don't throw a fit like many people seem to do. I'll just silently leave with my head down, a sigh, and a very disappointed looking gait.

>>672210
>wii vc
Wii VC doesn't do that

>>672167
It actually sounds like you're the hipster and your friends just want to enjoy some videogames.

Some people simply don't care enough about that stuff, I can bear with it.

>>672210
> Look closely, nothing is stretched.

-2/10

>>672216

>these people are eating raw shit near me, I can bear with it

I play my retro games widescreen. Seriously, it's not that big of a difference. It is a very silly thing to complain about especially when this board has almost daily emulation threads. I think emulation is more experience killing than a simple aspect ratio.

>>672201
Isn't it a bit shallow and overly picky of you to enforce that on others.

>>672210
>nothing is stretched.

I prefer the "correct" aspect ratio, and obviously I don't like 20:16 or some other ridiculous aspect ratio, but if it looks DECENT (readable text, discernible sprites, backgrounds don't fuck up the gameplay, etc.) I don't complain.

You know why I don't complain? Because I have no right to tell people how to play games.

This thread
>LETS START THE FILTER , ASPECT RATIO , CRT, EMULATOR WARS HERE

>>672232
no because knowledge is power

>>672167
it sounds like you need to calm the fuck down

>>672220
>Wii VC doesn't do that

Yes it does. That is not the Wii VC port though.

MUH AUTISM

>>672217
Looks okay to me.

>>672225
Thinking like that is not going to get you any more friends.

>>672232

You're right. We should enforce this instead since it look 10x better than what the real console could produce.

>>672212
>It looks hideous to the point of being insulting.
I think it looks fine

>>672253
Doesn't do it for me though I only have a handful of VC games, all of which stay 4:3

>>672212
>I'll just silently leave with my head down, a sigh, and a very disappointed looking gait.
that's just as horribly elitist/autistic as the people that throw fits

>>672274
>Making a huge show of overdramatic emotional upset like some kind of fucking anime character

jesus christ. sometimes I wish I didn't share hobbies with such awkward people.

>>672260
why do you think it's some sort of war?

I don't bother changing the aspect ratio on my widescreen when I'm playing 4:3 games. It's a combination just plain laziness and not giving a fuck to your retarded autism. It looks fine. If it's not to you, see a psychiatrist so they can start working with you on your autism.

>>672260

Now it's 20x better!

>>672260
fuck off gramps,

i wish someone told you this irl

i still think its wrong, but ignorance is bliss and as long as the people playing don't mention the game looking a bit stretched or something i'll stay quiet on this matters,

you re just frustrated to know people can enjoy games more than you do, fuck, you don't even enjoy the game, just the nostalgia feeling and thats why you need them to play it just like you do

>>672282
>doing either

>>672297
This actually kind of confuses my eyes. Everything looks blurry after looking at it.

ACTUALLY
the correct ratio for snes is 8:7

>>672317

...Nope

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/22712

>>672317
SNES games were designed to output to a standard TV and the sprites are *supposed* to be stretched

people playing emulators where everything is fucking skinny is almost as bad as 16:9 overstretch

>>672289
I think what it is it's just people want to keep the hobby going but to pass it on you want to keep knowledge of the best or more authentic experiences going around and not fuck things up for the future

>>672317
>the correct ratio for snes is 8:7
No, it is not.

>>672306
urrrm... but only one thing was mentioned in that post... did you mean to respond to a different one?

>>672081

I have a separate TV (24inch Sony Trinitron) on a TV cart with the older systems underneath it and hook up that I keep in a broom closet near the big screen. When Me or the buddies what to play retro I pull it out and roll it in front of the other TV so we can avoid this problem with ease.

>>672317
yeah 4:3 does stretch actually ,not so obvious if you're playing far from the screen

>>672178
Actually the native SNES aspect ratio is 8:7.

>>672339
now you're just pulling some faggotry

>>672342

No, it's 4:3

8:7 is just 1:1 PAR for the internal graphics you are never supposed to see

>>672342
The games are designed to be played on a 4:3 screen though. See
>>672334

>>672339
Was going to post this but you had to go and ruin the joke.
>>672340
I mean:
>Whining
>Whining inwardly

>Pick none

>>672352
Which does not change the fact that it's actually 8:7.

>>672234
>>672217
I'm not seeing it

>>672357
Playing in 8:7 would still be more retarded than playing in 16:9, though.

>>672357

No, it's actually 4:3 with non-square pixels.

Not all pixels are square. Square pixels are something only relatively recent displays have

>>672258
well, he is posting on 4chan after all.

>>672357
>hook SNES to TV as intended
>outputs at intended 4:3 resolution
>"4:3 isn't the intended output resolution"

are you just trolling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio

>>672354
we have to go wider

Using the correct filter is more important than the aspect ratio.

>>672331
>>672317
>>672338
>It's designed to stretch
>4:3
>16:9
>16:10
>7:8
>Rectangular pixels

>you will never do it the right way no matter how hard you try

>>672361
If you're blind then how do you post on 4chan

I don't know why people insist on putting games designed for 240p displays on the wrong aspect ratio and giant flatscreens, and then bragging about it
>look Chrono Trigger on my 46" LCD, top loading snes only because I have taste. #baller

>>672391
Alright, very funny.

Good trolling.

>>672357
Mario looks a bit stretched on emulator's 4:3 (640 x 480) without croping overscan , i wonder if someone could actually do a flat crt tv / emu screenshot comparison.

>>672385
Agreed, one must make sure not to shit all over a game with filters, as your picture demonstrates.

>>672397
do you have a braille screen

>>672385
It begins.....

>>672394
I don't think anyone actually brags about that... bragging about something like that would be stupid... they may brag about having the game, but no one is like "isn't it awesome that I'm stretching it over my screen", it's like you people think that people that do this are like evil comic book villains or something

>>672357

Not all SNES games were 8:7 (1.1429), games that used psuedo transparency were 512x224, which was 2.285.

Playstation had a metric fuckton of internal resolutions with different aspect ratios, but all of them were meant to be displayed in 4:3

>>672261
>you have autism if you care about quality
i will never understand these posts...

>>672397
>>672361
>>672210
What are you niggering at.

Look at the block behind Mario.
It's clearly rectangular, when it ought to be a square.

>>672370
>more retarded
whoa there

>>672385
For example, without filters, the sign is unreadable.

>>672385
I can hardly tell if thats a filter or not
if there is it's a damn good one since it's doing it job

>>672417
shitposters of /v/ thinking that type of posting will work here. Ignore it and move on.

>>672394
>top loading SNES
stop trolling

>>672417

It's caused by cognitive dissonance, they know they're wrong, but they don't accept it, so they lash out with ad hominems instead.

>>672421
I can read it fine

>>672421
They are the exact same image.

>>672421
>>672385
>This exact same argument with this exact set of pictures again

I feel like there are trolls on both sides of the debate, pretending to defend each side but actually delivering ironically flawed and incorrect arguments.

Does anyone else feel like this?
Are any of you actually discussing the topic of retro video output?
Is everyone just fucking around?

>>672423
that's what a GOOD filter is supposed to look like, rather than OH GOD I CUT MY HAND ON THE PIXELS raw output or HOLY FUCK WHY IS EVERYTHING SO BLURRY overfilter

>>672431
replace the /b/ with /v/, and /v/ with /vr/.

>>672415
AFAIK it could combine horizontal resolutions of 256, 320, 368, 512, and 640 with vertical resolutions of 224, 240, 448, and 480. And that's NTSC. PAL had its own resolution as well.

>>672435
>>672434
are you people blind or just trolling?

>>672436

Games without filter and raw output are far superior.

Only reason you use filters is nostalgia, it looks like ass.

It's like saying Wind Waker on dolphin doesn't look better than wind waker on GC.

Hey guys, while we're on the subject of Retro output...


Does anyone own a 3DS? When you play NES games, do you notice anything odd about the screen?

It seems like it's not playing in native resolution.

>>672385
>>672421
Alright, this shit was kinda funny the first time around, but you're clearly killing the joke by now.

>>672436
exactly my thoughts
I had to see the second pic to even tell, then I realize I'm on an LCD display and the filter had just the right amount to it to give it the look of a CRT

>>672436
>>672423
I can see the lines quite clearly, it does look a lot better than the filters with the HUGE scanlines most people post in these sort of arguements, what filter is this?

>>672385
Oh god, are you that fucking moron who always says the sign is unrea-
>>672421
FUCK
MAN, FUCK YOU, SERIOUSLY.

>>672421
don't exaggerate , it can be read fine, i agree in the other pic the sign is more readable tho,i like crt filters, just don't try too hard

>>672447
apples and oranges

>Trolling with ridiculous "Unreadable sign" statement
>Using an actually good filter

brilliant rusing. Now someone get me the name of that fucking pixel shader right meow

>>672458
stop responding... it's a troll that's been doing this in all of these sort of threads... not that these sort of threads aren't trolls themselves

>>672447
i f you mean playing on an lcd without filters, then you are just idiot , the pixelated mess stays a mess even if i get 10 ft away from the tv

>>672464
That's just Blargg's NTSC filter, more specifically the variant with scanlines. Can't quite tell if it's the S-video or RGB version, though. Anyway, Snes9x has it built-in, though you can download it for RetroArch as well.

I personally prefer cgwg's CRT-Geom with Blargg's scanline-less NTSC-RGB on top.

>>672464
It's just blaarg's NTSC filter set to RGB plus OpenGL bilinear filter.

>>672419
it's at an angle though

>>672447

You can't tell me this doesn't look 10x better than a pixellated mess that is "unfiltered"

>>672476
>>672475
huh, shit, really? I've never tried out Blaarg.

how accurate is it?

I actually love the *intent* behind Higan 100%, it's what MAME has been doing for years now and is actually needed, but their actual implementation is infuriatingly user-unfriendly and shockingly incompatible with most systems

>>672385
>>672421
>>672443
Sorry pal, but I can read this sign just fine

>>672485

I prefer unfiltered graphics. I don't even know how bad people's TVs were back in the 90s, mine never had shit like blurriness or scan lines or anything. It looked like unfiltered looks.

>>672492
WOOOOWWW
forgot pic

>>672485
you are just trying to hard man ,if you gonna do that then please pick one of those comic book filters, or do some bad scanlines

>>672492
it's certainly not the same image though

>>672441
>They're shitposting, must be /v/

>>>/4chan/

>>672497
Although now with this comparison, I think it IS a little easier to read with the filter...

Some games may have been artistically designed with the crt displays in mind...

>>672497

I can't help but notice the ground has more texture with NTSC...

I play Game Boy Advance games on an emulator, full screen on my monitor and don't give a fuck.

>>672510
>Some games may have been artistically designed with the crt displays in mind...
they all were

>>672490
It's pretty damn accurate, although IMO it's not quite enough. Combined with CRT-Geom, though, it's very nice. Though even then, it's not quite perfect, but it's pretty much the best you can get unless you hook up a real CRT, or until 4K displays become common and shaders are written to take advantage of the massive increase in DPI. As it stands, you can only do so much with 1080p. There's just not enough pixels.

>>672514
Yeah, haha, I made that gif with the intent of subverting him, but it's kind of looking good with that game.

Although the gif may have altered the picture a bit...

>>672516
I play GBC games in my GBA and I switch it to fullscreen.

Fuck haters.

>>672510
>some games may have been artistically designed with the CRT in mind
yes, like say all the games designed to be played on televisions when there were only CRT televisions in existence

this is what people are going on about when they talk about filters and buying CRTs, I don't know why it's so difficult to understand. Unless you're just one of those ignoramuses that hears something they're unfamiliar with and declares it wrong because it doesn't match how you already understand the world.

>>672446
Not likely, seeing as the screens display at 400x240 for the top screen and 320x240 for the bottom. The NES runs at 256x224 (technically 256x240, but the latter is the PAL output), and judging from my calculations, the bottom screen has the same aspect ratio as the NES.

While I was playing Super C, it seems like they cropped some of the screen out, as I couldn't see the scrolling artifacts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9krYS4uf8S0

Around 20 seconds in, look at the top of the screen. Those are scrolling artifacts.

>>672520
Another one see the light.

>>672520
well it's a gif so it probably dicked up the colors somewhat

>>672485
Mario looks so sad...

>>672169
>irregardless

KILL.
YOUR.
SELF.

That being said, it's a tough choice playing stretched to shit vs tiny-ass pillbox.
>Get a CRT

Not all of us have space for retro battle station to go along with our modern one.

>>672526
Problem is that current CRT/scanline filters and shaders aren't quite there yet. Not because of lack of trying, mind you, but because replicating the CRT look and behavior is fucking hard, and even when you develop the theory of what is needed to get it right, current displays are the limiting factor here. The vast majority of LCD screens just do not have enough resolution, contrast, and response time to truly capture the CRT look and feel. There are several decent approximations, but we're still a ways off.

>>672485

>>672531
>>672520
>>672514
>>672510
>>672504
>>672497
>>672492
Top lel,
I had the gif settings messed up a bit,

Here's a more accurate comparison

>>672542

>>672542

>>672543
The filter is still better.

>>672529
See, with those numbers, in THEORY it ought to work out.

But it doesn't.

The inaccuracy is clear if you try Mega Man and look at a health bar. Either a horizontal or vertical one, not sure...

>>672547
>Not all of us have space for retro battle station to go along with our modern one
better make some space then pal

>>672541
Now you've got me imagining CRT shaders for a 4K display that actually simulate all the weird little fucking RGB subpixels and shit, plus the faint bleedover of luminosity into adjacent pixels...

Really, that's what you can't get properly on digital displays. Dat electron-beam glow. It's why vector games can't be even reasonably approximated compared to the real thing...you ever want to see young gamers drop their jaws, show them a real Asteroids cabinet.

>>672558
That works shockingly well with those prerendered sprites.

Wonder how Kirby Super Star would work

>>672547
>complaining about the word irregardless
http://www.amazon.com/Irregardless-Grammar-Errors-Irritate-ebook/dp/B00B0U9LWM
That book is for you, son.

>>672564
There is already one. It's called hunterk's PhosphorLUT. Obviously, though, there is literally no way to appreciate it unless viewed through a 4k display.

>>672558

>>672526
It's because people like you make arguments like OP's.

>Why are you playing on a shit TV and calling my TV shit?

/vr/ - Hypocrisy General

>>672479

Snes/NES games look better with saturated color and a few edges than they ever will with scan lines and blur.

>>672583
I didn't say anything at all about not playing on a widescreen or that other people "shouldn't", I was doing nothing but explaining why people bother to prefer a specific display setup in the first place.

>>672567

>>672562
Hmm, I see. Maybe they dicked around with the display after all.

>>672596
Oh gosh that is just delightful. Can you tone down the scanlines a bit?

>>672587
This one isn't as good, those rounding filters don't work with such intricate sprites. They're better for games with big simple shapes and lots of solid colors rather than heavy shading

>>672609

The shader is "4xBR-Hybrid-CRT.cg"

https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/blob/master/CRT/4xBR-Hybrid-CRT.cg

>>672596
Stunt Race FX please?

How about really, really thin lines?

>>672662
Why? What's the point?

I always turn widescreen off on my Sony 42". It takes one button press, people.

>>672665
No point, just wondering what the reaction would be. Everyone bitches about big, dark scanlines, so I thought I'd see what you all thought of thin, light lines.

Corrected for aspect ratio, NES games should look like this.

>>672684
640x448 is not 4:3. Scaling artifacts are plainly visible. Just look at the health and weapons bars.

>>672690
It's really 640x480, but the top and bottom few lines are lost to the vertical retrace.

>>672684

>>672696
Then the real aspect ratio correction should take place without taking that into account, at least on an emulator. It should actually be something like 596x448.

>>672684
You have to be trolling, the outline of megaman's arm is thicker but should be one pixel just like the rest.

>>672709
It's what happens if you try to correct the aspect ratio while using nearest neighbor scaling.

>>672696
I fixed it for him. The black area would be invisible on a CRT TV.

>>672719
Much better

Hmm, there is no overscan black area on my end.

>>672739
And then you get oblong pixels as it should be

Doesn't the Wii do this?

>>672739

>>672756
Not automatically, no. The Wii doesn't have the ability to tell the TV to output in 16:9 automatically like the 360 does. If it's widescreen, it's because you set your TV to display that way.

Does anyone have any experience with dreamcast emulators? SF 3rd strike has some glitches with some of the sprties, as well as capcom vs SNK 2. I think I need to mess with the plugins or something.

>>672536

>>672768
See, the issue is whatever emulator you're using has overscan enabled, which when you scale it up to 640x480 causes things like the health bars to be unevenly spaced. That doesn't happen on my end, since I don't have overscan, thus it scales cleanly without artifacting.

what is overscan?

>>672816
An area of offscreen picture on CRTs

> Do people not know what the fuck aspect ratio is anymore?
> anymore
People have never known this shit.

>this thread

>>672816
Think of it as the image displayed on the TV being zoomed in just a bit so that some of the area on the edges of the image isn't viewable. Most TVs back in the day had a bit of overscan, and many video games took advantage of this to save resources on resolution by putting black bars where the overscanned part of the image would be.

>>672683

It kills the color, especially with a game that's all about the vibrant design in levels.

>>672875

It does nothing to the color

>>672881

Yes it does.

>>672874
Disgusting. I can't see any scanlines, it's not dark enough, I can see outlines on the characters. Jesus, it's a fucking nightmare.

>>672881
For me, based on that image alone, it looks a bit duller than I remember from SMW

>>672881
>putting tiny dark lines over the colors doesn't make the colors darker
Okay.

>>672881

Raw is more saturated.

this thread

>>672902
You forgot CRT curvature on the left.

>>672907
>I had a shitty tv

>>672902

yeah, the right looks better.

>>672889
>>672897

>having shitty TN panels with terrible contrast ratios

That's your fault, not mine.

>>672901

My main issue with filters.

Most games I play use bright colors, filters dull the shit out of them so fuck that. Yes smoother, less edgy outlines is great but not at the cost of color saturation.

Nothing is every gonna beat playing the game on a flatscreen (not LCD) with the original console anyways.

>>672910
People actually use that shit, and I've seen people try to defend making your game look it's being reflected in a funhouse mirror as "HOW THE DEVELOPERS INTENDED THE GAME TO BE SEEN"

>>672924
I've never seen anyone defend curvature as if it's an integral part of the experience or that games were intended for it. Almost everyone admits it's purely for the sake of nostalgia.

Now, scanlines, phosphor emulation, etc., yeah.

>aspect ratio thread
>got hijacked by the filterfaggots
fuck you /vr/

>>672929
To be fair, where else could the thread have gone?

>>672929

They don't understand the difference.

They put these filters on and full screen the emulator anyways,

>>672928
>I've never seen anyone defend curvature as if it's an integral part of the experience or that games were intended for it
I have. Multiple times.

>/vr/ judging CRT filters.jpg

>>672928
Personally I like the old-fashioned curve screened CRT look

>>672941
Ah, old PC games. Here is where the aspect ratio bullshit really brings my tits to a boil. Especially EGA 640x350 games.

>>672934

oh god no. I play on 4:3 aspect ratio mode, thank you very much

Isn't this thread proof that /vr/ wants to discuss filters?
Why are the janitors summarily deleting filter threads?

>>672964
because they are full of shitposters and they are too lazy to go through and delete posts.

>>672970
This, they're just an excuse for a small circlejerk to yell "MINE'S BETTER" "NO MINE FAGGOT"

>>672950
640x350 would be 4:3 on a real EGA monitor but VGA leaves it with black bars on the bottom and top of the screen

>>672775
Does fucking no one emulate dreamcast fighters? Am I just retarded?

>>672975
You don't have to participate if you don' want to

>>672167
i'm sure they talk about you too
just to themselves in person while your here alone

http://imgur.com/a/6u8Zb#68
http://imgur.com/a/CS4Oh

>>672996
Squarepusher pls go

>>672979
I don't think that's true. The monitor is still 4:3 but 640x350 isn't.

>>673000

I'm not him, I just saved the links he posted on /vg/

>>672081
I think it looks OK

I hate threads like this. You make it sound like everybody should have the money or space for both a 16:9 and 4:3.

>>673007
Must be because MDA monitors use 350 lines also and every picture I can find of one running shows visible borders (ie. the image doesn't fill the whole screen)

>>673015
>implying you can't tell the TV to display an aspect correct image

Wow, you sure look dumb now

How about this? A simple shader that blends dithered pixels. It's pretty great for Genesis and old DOS games.

>>673016
MDA/Hercules should be approximately like this

>>673030
Does this have a name? I'd use it.

ITT: Maximum autism

>>673030
Whoa, original on the left? That's impressive

>>673042
Needs more lines; that's how the developers wanted it.

>>673046
C'mon man. Is that a real filter I can find and use, or is that just like a mock-up or whatever?

Last one

>>673069

Something about that makes my eyes feel weird.

>>673074
That's just the cancer setting in.

>>673069
Ok well I'll do _one_ more. The early toaster Macs ran at 512x384 which is 4:3 so no correction required.

>>673074
If you stare at it long enough you see an awful port.

>>673081
It's ok for the Apple II, I guess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQGW8tur30

>>672684
what's with the downs syndrome megaman eyes bro?

That can't be accurate, I don't remember him looking like that.

If I want to play a game I play it. A little distortion does not fucking matter so stop acting like it ruins the whole game.

God you fucks are beginning to sound like the "MUH GRAFFIX" fags on /v/. Or the even more retarded "MUH FILTERZ" here.

>>673084
dat sound

>>673078
>scanline filter on a game from 2004

>>673095
That's nothing. Try Ms. Pac-Man. Sounds like a fucking diesel truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY1E29rzPs0

>>673101
>scanlines at all

>>673103
On the other hand, the game is noticeably programmed better than Dig-Dug. Animation is nice and fluid while the other game is extremely choppy.

I would say of all the early 80s arcade games, Ms. Pac was the most consistently well-ported. There's no really bad home version of it.

>>673101

>320x240
>not having scanlines
>not knowing what "retro-style" is

top lel

>>673109
1/10, could get someone

>>673061
https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/tree/master/dithering

Only usable on RetroArch for now.

>>673115

It's more like 10/10 because it's absolutely correct

>>673106
>implying scanlines don't make low-res pixels art look good

>>673119
Look at him go

>>673086
Nearest neighbor scaling artifacts.

>>673069
What is up with the green and purple pixels on every Apple II screenshot I see?

Thanks doc.

>>673125
>implying good pixel art doesn't stand out on its own

>>673093
>having little appreciation for your own hobby

>>673129
I remember them dearly but have no idea why white pixels split into green and purp like that

>>673137
Not that guy, but PLAYING vidya is my hobby.
Not looking at pretty screenshots of vidya.

>>672081
Holy shit, that looks amazing! How do I do that?

>>673137
>You cant appreciate a game unless it is played the way I want you to play it
Go fuck yourself. Just because your autism/OCD/homosexuality stops you from playing slightly distorted games does not mean you should look down on us that do. We can enjoy shit for different reasons and in different ways.

Jesus Christ, /vr/, why are you so anal about this? This is /v/ tier bullshit.

I still find it amazing that one can find the biggest graphics whores in all of gaming on a retro board.

the autism is strong in this thread. you should stop worrying about how other people play their games and instead enjoy playing your own. if you want to nit pick every little thing someone does with their game you should head over to /v/ and save us all a lot of headache.

>>673178
>saging with a picture

>>673170
>slightly distorted
>slightly
Haha oh wow.

There are two excuses for using 16:9 for retro games:
1) ignorance
2) laziness

Which team are you?

>>673183
Almost everyone here came from /v/, you moron.
Stop using /v/ like it's the new gaia or reddit. For fuck's sake.

>>673191
Just because you came from /v/ doesn't mean you have to act like the typical /v/irgin.

>>673190
>Blissful Ignorance
>Warranted laziness
FTFY

>>673129
>>673139
Apple IIs generate color via NTSC bleed (the video signal has no chroma, only luminance). It works like this:

>Odd-numbered pixel is white
>Adjacent even-numbered pixel is black
>they smear into one big purple pixel

>Odd-numbered pixel is black
>Adjacent even-numbered pixel is white
>they smear into one big green pixel

>Odd-numbered pixel is white
>Adjacent even-numbered pixel is white
>One big white pixel results

All Apple IIs except the original model also provide a flag in the video buffer for each pixel pair that when enabled flips the color burst 90 degrees and changes them to blue or orange. This works because on NTSC, you can only change colors 160 times per scan line (3Mhz bandwidth) while the luminance is 14Mhz and twice as high.

>>673170
>Why is that man eating shrimp with the shells still on them? Doesn't he know that that's not how you're supposed to eat shrimp? His eating experience would be dramatically improved by shelling the shrimp first.
>WOW, WHO CARES AUTISM OCD FAGGOT, JUST LET HIM EAT HOW HE WANTS GODDAMN

>>673191

Well, it kinda is. I stopped visiting /v/ years ago, but recently came back to 4chan for /out/ but spotted /vr/ here and have fallen in love. Its like 2006 or something in here.

Or at least it would be if we were allowed to gush over PS2 RPGs as well

>>673205
>>Why is that man eating shrimp with Ketchup? Doesn't he know that that's not how you're supposed to eat shrimp? His eating experience would be dramatically improved by using cocktail sauce.
>WOW, WHO CARES AUTISM OCD FAGGOT, JUST LET HIM EAT HOW HE WANTS GODDAMN

>>673205
are you trying to argue against him with that? because all you're doing is helping to prove his point. people don't get to dictate how other people should enjoy things.

>>673214
Except using ketchup is a preference, and not objectively wrong, so your comparison doesn't work.

>>673196
Just because this is /vr/ doesn't mean this isn't 4chan.

Get your fucking shit together, /vr/. You're on fucking 4chan for Christ's sake, it doesn't matter which board you are on or which thread you are in; if you have time to whiteknight on 4chan, you are in no position to be putting yourself on a pedestal.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE.
EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Is a massive faggot.

Here's an idea, why don't YOU get out?

/rant

>>673216
>Objectively wrBAHAHA
BAHAHAA
AHHAHAHAHA

>>673216
This is what the whole filter ordeal is, actually. There is no correct filter, as CRT emulation is imperfect. You can do whatever you want, personally I like to see the bare pixels.

Anyone who thinks stretching their asshole into 16:9 deserves a cock rammed in there equally as wide for being such a fucking casual. I don't see how not worrying about aspect ratios means you are enjoying the games more (it just means your underage fagget retards), yes it looks like shit but thats no the problem. The problem is your shit ass scaler in your TV ruins the games when you strecth them out like that because it causes DELAY. DO YOU FUCKING IDIOTS NOT UNDERSTAND THAT, maybe you only think you're enjoying the game more because your brain also runs with a delay. ITT casuals and underage fags

>>673223

Yeah, why would we want standards or anything crazy like that. People are shit, so lets make sure to be shit ourselves, right?

Cheer up, you stupid cunt.

>>673228
Oh, filters?
I thought the conversation was about OP's image, since this whole conversation started with >>673093 which is, objectively, not how shit was meant to be.
No one can argue otherwise. Not successfully anyway.

>>673229
>it just means your underage fagget retards

so much autism in this post it physically hurts to read.

and for the record, i play my games in the correct aspect ratio, but i don't screech at people who don't because it doesn't affect me one bit.

>>673230
love how everyone uses the "we're still on 4chan" excuse to avoid being civil and decent to each other. every time a new board opens up it's a chance for something different, and this board has mostly been fantastic. it's because of people like >>673223 that boards end up shitty.

>>673235
shut the fuck up nigger you're the one with input delay

>>673226
>I'm going to wear my shoe on my head
>>But dude, shoes are supposed to be worn on the feet. That's how they're designed, that's their purpose. Notice how the shape-
>FUCK YOU, OCD/AUTISM/HOMO, I'M GONNA WEAR IT ON MY HEAD. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF PREFERENCE, FAGGOT.

>>673247
>and for the record, i play my games in the correct aspect ratio

so in addition to severe autism you also have trouble reading, yes?

>>673243
OMG YOU SEE A NON CIVIL POST IGNORE IT?
You doomsayers are worse than the fucking shitposts themselves. If someone wants to call someone a fucking nigger and it rustles your jimmies. GET THE FUCK OFF THE INTERNET

>>673203
Ah, I knew it had to be some NTSC trickery.

Kinda reminds me of how developers could transcend the limited CGA color palette in composite color mode.

>>672421
you mean the one that says "inn"?

>>673256
what a good point you bring to the table, anon, and presented in such a civil and tasteful manner.
i don't think this board will go to shit any time soon, but people like you certainly aren't making it any better.

>>673256
>rustles your jimmies
Are you from 2010?

>>673253
People with autism aren't aggressive I'm just a shit chucking ape but you're still a faggot for sympathizing with input delay. How the fuck do you play a shmup when the bullet has already hit you in the software and it hasn't touched you yet on screen. Plus it looks like shit fagget

>>673119
yur a fag bro

>>673243\
>Excuse that it's 4chan

It's not an excuse to shitpost, but more of a warning that if shitposts get you butthurt, you may be on the wrong website.

>Every time a new board opens up someone shitposts on it

You don't say..
>Boards end up shitty
Check your privilege

>Because of me

Don't you forget it.

Thanks for your time. I have to go now but I'll be back.

>>673261
My post made a point and proved it. Stop being such an over sensitive bitch. Don't like being called a bitch, don't reply to this post you bitch. I have no idea who you are anonymous bitch.

>>673260
That's the only sign in the picture.

>>673269
i don't give a fuck what other people play their games with, on, or what aspect ratio they use. i will continue to play my games and let them play theirs. the fact you worry so much about other people is worrisome.

>>673275
what a well thought out and presented rebuttal. truly it has been a privilege conversing with an anon such as yourself.

>>673259
>Ah, I knew it had to be some NTSC trickery

Because Steve Wozniak wanted color graphics, but didn't have the money for expensive custom ICs, so he discovered this kewl trick you could do with the NTSC signal. He also found that by stretching the luminance frequency slightly beyond that of broadcast NTSC, the color burst wouldn't flip 180 degrees every scan line as it normally does (CGA cards do this as well) and it would remain constant.

>Kinda reminds me of how developers could transcend the limited CGA color palette in composite color mode

CGA does generate chroma though, unlike the Apple II. The video signal is actually created as RGB and then converted to NTSC via a TTL circuit for the composite output (IBM didn't use a proper RGB -> NTSC converter for cost reasons)

>>673279
honestly i love being called a bitch, but that's for the bedroom, not for here. still, you can keep calling me a bitch, big boy~ i'm sure it makes you feel real special and maybe just a little bit tingly in your tightie whities~

once again your powers of discussion and deliberation astound me, anon.

>>673279
Thanks anonymous bitch!
May a squadron of beautiful vaginas make their way onto your loves stick before the day is at an end

>>672421
I'm sorry, but I couldn't read a thing on that fuzzy filtered shit image you posted.
Imagine my surprise when I found out the sign said "INN"

>>673292
The only other thing that uses NTSC bleed for color is the Atari 800's hi-res mode (320x214). Later, when they began selling the computers in Europe, it proved an annoyance since they could only get a B&W picture with it (standard Atari 8-bit graphics are 160x200)

>>673283
...autismal as fuck

>>673292
This 180 degree flip is what produces the "checkerboards" in dot crawl

>>673286
Play Mike Tysons punchout stretched the fuck out and you will see where I am coming from. A game where milliseconds count and the hardware scaler is fucking you in the ass. The people who play 16:9 don't realize this thats my problem.

wait so you're fucking telling me Apple IIs are black and white monitors using bleed tricks to generate limited color? That's awesome

>>673318
Oh well I always use my HDTV with widescreen off. No wonder I don't get any lag.

>>673318
do you play your games stretched out or in the wrong aspect ratio? no? then who the fuck cares if someone else does? your "problem" is with other people doing things that have absolutely no bearing or effect on you and your video gaming habits. the fact you have spent this long trying to convince me i should care just proves how lonely and autistic you are, standing on your pedestal crying about how other people choose to enjoy their video games while attempting to get others to follow in your twisted footsteps. it's sad and pathetic, anon.

>>673324
>wait so you're fucking telling me Apple IIs are black and white monitors

B&W video signal, not monitor. But otherwise correct. And incidentally, they tried selling Apple IIs in Yurop but it flopped because price and well...you figure the rest out.

>>673294
I can deliberate you are fucked up in the head since being degraded causes a hormonal reaction in your brain. Fucked up in the head is layman's terms for you being mentally impaired. If you can't extrapolate the meaning worded like that you aren't very smart in the first place. I deleted my shitposts but I just had to say, you are fucked in the head. bitch

>>673326
>how other people choose to enjoy their video games
Different guy here. If you actually "choose" to use 16:9 to play these old games, then you're a moron, end of story.

>>673326
righr because they are enjoying them when they are screaming about how fucking cheap mike tyson is...I must be alone though nobody likes that shitty game obviously when they have their super merryoh worlds to play

>>673357
call me a bitch while avoiding the topic of discussion and insulting me with ad hominem some more anon, it gets me hot.

>>673359
i agree, but that doesn't mean i'm so autistic i have to give these people shit about it when i see them post screencaps or whatever.

I've got my SNES hooked up to a flat-screen in my living room. My roommates see my retro game collection and go "hey that looks fun" and I let them play. Personally I've got my CRT in my room, but I don't find the aspect ratio gets too fucked up beyond making it functional.

ill just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip6WuOvK8EU

>>673403
To whoever brought up the dithering blending shader: I love you man.

>>673384
My retro consoles work just fine on my HDTV. It pays to get a quality brand and not Chinese crap.

>>673427
that is in fact pretty rad

>>673440
It really does vary by brand.

It's all about how the TV handles upscaling of lower resolution signals. You might get crisp perfect line doubling or garbly subpixel mess.

>>673427
What I love about this is that it basically renders the composite video filter obsolete. It used to be that you needed it for blending and shit, but it made games look like a blurry mess. So unless you are nostalgic for composite artifacts and a blurry ass image, this is now the way to go.

Going to look for a tv to play retro vidya on.(Any tips on brads, etc? Does it have to have s-video?) I have access to a magnavox tv with a built in dvd player, but idk. I have a retron 3 until I find a nes / snes for a decent price. (Anything less than $50 and I'll b happy.) Pic related is how smw looks on my okay hdtv. s video.

>>673469
Exactly. I never missed color bleeding or artifacts or general blurriness. I just wanted dithering to not look like shit.
This shader ain't perfect, but this is much better than the alternative.

>>673567
After seeing that, heres my portable dvd player, the camera adds the whiteish tone.

>>673463
This is on my 42" Sony. It's only mildly blocky (which you don't notice if you sit enough distance from the TV) and there's no discernible lag.

>>673567
Looks ok although personally I would never play a game without turning wide screen off. You probably do want S-video because it's the best signal that the SNES and 5th gen consoles can use.

>>673595
Note: The early stuff like Ataris only outputs RF, which sucks cock and balls. Those should be run through a VCR for composite.

>>673595
Unfortunately my Sony doesn't have S-video. Which is ok for the NES, but it really sucks for later consoles.

>>673603
>Those should be run through a VCR for composite.

Uh, why? It won't make the Atari look better. In fact, if anything, doing this may actually result in MORE signal degradation, since it's going through another device. Chances are your TV has a better modulator than the VCR does.

>>673589
>no discernible lag

100ms of lag will ruin your game of Punch Out, but that's cute that you think you'd be able to intuitively notice it.

The average person does not give a shit. I dislike playing games stretched out but I don't get angry when someone else does. Now if they were using smoothing then we would have a problem. That shit is just plain ugly.

>>673642
>100ms of lag will ruin your game of Punch Out

I think at this point you're really stretching to try and justify your outdated 300 pound Brontosaurus monitors. I've never noticed lag on any game I've tried on this TV and I have over 30 of them.

>>673870
>wasting time even arguing with CRT nutriders
You may as well go on /mu/ and argue with the vinyl hipsters

"Hurr mah scanlines!"

"Hurr mah 0.22498 millisecond lag!"

"Hurr music just isn't right without scratchy noise everywhere!"

>>673673
What I don't understand is how someone could even look at that screen and not immediately think "wow, something looks totally off here".

Yes, the "average person" is is not expected to be knowledgeable about ratios or monitor types or pixel density or whatever, but I find it unbelievable that they don't notice everything looks extremely stretched to the point where it's just unnatural.

>>673903
Bad analogy.

Pixels work with CRTs in certain ways according to developers intention. Hell, even signal types were taken into consideration at times.

No music artist, not one, recorded their music with the scratches of vinyl in mind.

>>672354
>/vr/'s nightmare.png

>>673078

>>673915
Almost, but music production was definitely based on the playback devices of the time. For example, Bing Crosby tunes sound great on a 1946 Philco radio, but Lil Wayne not so much.

>>673870
>I've never noticed lag on any game

You never will. Your brain will try to compensate for it instead.

It will fail that task when the lag causes your response time to exceed what's necessary though.

Like Tyson's 15-frame punches in Punch Out. Any more than 3 frames of lag and you can't beat him because you are physically incapable of reacting fast enough.

>>672212
> datpic.jpg
Is this Tumblr and nobody warned me?

>>672304
THIS.
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

>>673078
>Cave Story in RetroArch
>Not playing the superior PC version

>>674070
That's why you use a plasma display. You get the insta-snap response time of CRTs. ;)

>>674215
Yeh, the perfect setup using a modern display would be a Panny plasma with an XRGB scaler box.

>>672543
I see where you're coming from, but no. It's not the filter doing it, but the NTSC color space. You may want to take a snap again with no filter but with the NTSC hues.

>>674230
we got a 47" Panasonic plasma here, but I'll be fucked if I'm shelling out 500 bucks for a scaler/doubler....

>>672684
Except I see vertical artifacts, which I shouldn't because 4:3 is just really stretching horizontally.

>>674247
But that super silky motion is pretty sweet considering my LCD TV smears like crazy when you're going at full 60 fps

>>674257
I know. If you've ever been in Target and seen sports running on plasma and LCDs, the difference is instantly noticeable.

Try though manufacturers might, LCDs just can't update the screen as fast as CRT, OLED, and plasma

>>673904
That's the thing. They don't notice that it looks stretched. To them that is just how the game looks. Most people just plain do not notice these things so it does not bother them.

>>674601
Indeed, for many years (especially as a kid) I felt that if it filled more of the screen then it was a better option, since it gave a bigger image. To me it was kind of cool honestly, like on the GBA how you could stretch Pokemon TCG to 16:9. Now I realize that it's just incorrect but I never saw a problem with it in the past, it just didn't occur to me.

>>674601
That's probably true for games, but I often see my little brother watching Star Trek in the wrong aspect ratio when I go visit. If you see human actors with wide heads there's no way you can't notice.

One time I was bringing my N64 round so he could borrow it for a while. There he was watching Wide Trek, and I thought 'maybe he just doesn't know how to change it.' So, I showed him the aspect ratio button on the remote and told him he'll need to do it when using the N64

I come back 15 minutes later and he's changed Star Trek back to widescreen. I thought it was annoying and wierd, but if he prefers it that way I'm not gonna stop him.

>>674721
show him the "we need to go wider" image

>buy starwing and stunt race
>notice that they're widescreen
>set TV to full zoom

AWWW YEAAAH BABY, WE FULL-SCREEN NOW

>>672383

>>674796

>>674802

Develop your own emulator or stop bitching.

14:9 plebrace here

you have 2 choices:

>stretch the image
>play with black borders

neither is ideal, so it's all down to personal preference. How autistic do you have to be to care what other people prefer?

>>672354

Put some fucking scanlines on that.

Jesus, do you even emulate?

>>675752

Couldn't you also zoom?

I can't stand pillarboxing, but /v/ made me anal about stretching as well so I don't know what the fuck to do

>>675787
>I can't stand pillarboxing

why is this such a problem for some people? I mean, there would be nothing in that space anyway. I swear, just play for 5 minute and you won't even notice it

>>673427
Where can I get this shader?

>>675787
There were some shaders I found a long time ago that supported adding images to fill up the pillarboxing with game art or an old-timey TV overlay.

>>672081
Why do you care?

>>675780
That's the worst of the 3 options, since then you'd cut off part of the image.

>>675839
In most cases, yeah; But if it was something that heavily underscanned itself, like Starfox, zooming would work perfectly fine.

>>673250

Of course it's a matter of preference. Goodness knows I've seen people wear weirder things

>>675780

you can, but again that has it's own disadvantages.

I just fired up my N64 to see what it looked like stretched, and I think I prefer stretching it to having borders. Once you start playing and become accustomed to it, you hardly notice

I play a stretched image on an unfiltered LCD, unrepentantly.
I can understand your frustration though, I can't stand movies when they're scaled like that.

>>672239
This way /vr/ will become a new cesspool, and /vrr/ will be created.

>>675839

I recently had to play Sunset Riders on a large widescreen LCD. I set it up so that the image was zoomed, centered, and just slightly stretched.

Looked nice, was very playable. Some cheap deaths occurred thanks to lower window of reaction to hazards coming from outside the view area, but we beat the game in just a few tries.

>>672239
Some janitor deletes the filter general thread on sight. We can't have our own thread so we have to make do.