/vr/ - Retro Games

>art direction and atmosphere
Probably Demon's Crest, if it counts as a metroidvania.

Unoriginal, but Castlevania SotN.

>>670013
The genre is called a goddamn fucking action/adventure, not a metroid-vania.

>>670549
Or Metroid-like. Castlevania took over the genre but didn't start it.

>>670549
Not at all.
Action/adventure is perhaps the most vague "genre" out there. It's pretty much anything that has both action, and puzzles or problem solving. An absurdly large amount of games fall into this category.
Metroidvania is a much more specific and much more useful term, referring to 2D games with exploration, large, often maze-like areas, and power-ups that help you progress and shit.
It's a stupid name for a genre, and it use to be just an insult directed at Castlevania games like SotN, but who really gives a shit besides pedantic assholes? It's a very useful term.

>>670591
Do you call platformers "Sonimario-like"?

>>670619
Action adventure is Zelda and Metroid type of game. It's very well defined.

>>670549

But you understood what he meant, so the phrase is functional.

>>670013

I haven't really played a lot of them, but I really like Aria of Sorrow. The powers you acquire add some variety to the gameplay and collecting them all scratches my autismal completionist itch.

>>670630
>But you understood what he meant, so the phrase is functional.
We often know what ignorant people mean even when they're wrong. It's called context.

>>670631
Metroid is also platformer. But it also falls into it's own subgenre. Like how Rogue is an RPG. Besides, Sonic? What are you talking about?

Super Metroid by leaps and bounds.

>>670631
>Action adventure is Zelda and Metroid type of game
Yes, and it's also a HUGE number of other things as well.

Minecraft is an action/adventure game.
System Shock is an action/adventure game.
Grand Theft Auto is an action/adventure game.
Thief is an action/adventure game.
Resident Evil is an action/adventure game.
Banjo-Kazooie is an action/adventure game.

The things you want to "correct me" with and say that these games REALLY are are just subgenres of action/adventure.

>Do you call platformers "Sonimario-like"?
Like I already said, it's definitely a stupid name for a genre, but it's still a very useful term.

>>670631

>Action adventure is Zelda and Metroid type of game. It's very well defined.

How can you say that it's well defined when those two games are vastly different from each other?

>Hey guys, I really liked A Link to the Past. Are there any other similar games you can recommend?

>Yeah, Super Metroid.

>>670697
Not the guy you're arguing with, but "adventure platfomer" describes them very well. Or "sidescrolling adventure".

Metroidvania is a pretty bad term in my opinion, especially since Castlevania played nothing like Metroid until SotN, and even then it had more in common with Falcom RPGs like the Dragon Slayer series.

>>670697
You calling open-world, action/rpg, stealth action, survival horror, 3D platforming, etc. games "action/adventures" serves to illustrate your ignorance.

>>670713
>especially since Castlevania played nothing like Metroid until SotN
They were both:
>>670619
>2D games with exploration, large, often maze-like areas, and power-ups that help you progress
And that is what people are referring to when they say "metroidvania" these days.
What exactly is unclear?

>>670754
Nothing, some people don't like the term, and it sticks in their craw hard enough to cause pedantry.

>>670754
Why you continue clinging to that awkward term when it could just as well be described as a sidescrolling adventure or an adventure platformer.

>>670723
So what is action/adventure then, since it's CLEARLY NOT just some combination of action and adventure elements according to you?

>>670013
I'm sorry, OP. You wanted a nice civilized thread, but as you can see, the cancer really ends nowhere on 4chan.

>>670773
An action adventure game is, in its purest form, an adventure game (like a text adventure or a point and click) where examining things in the environment, solving puzzles, and combat is done directly without the aid of a menu interface.

Like the Zelda series.

>>670770
>when it could just as well be described as a sidescrolling adventure or an adventure platformer
They could be, but they aren't. No one uses them, and no one ever will. Metroidvania is the largely accepted term. Nothing is going to change that at this point.
Do you get this mad when people say "rogue-like" as well?

>>670013
Cave Story

I'd say, op, that you can't really go wrong with any of them. I can't think of a legitimately bad metroidvania, personally. I'm not all that picky, though.

>>670785
So how do Resident Evil, System Shock, and Thief not fit your definition?

>>670795
Rogue is one game. Metroid and Castlevania are two. They are not as similar as most make them out to be.

Metroid-like would be accurate. Castlevania-like wouldn't denote anything at all, since the series has gone from action platformer to nonlinear 2D adventure to 3D action adventure to 3D hack and slash to 3D button masher throughout its history.

It's the "vania" that's the problem.

>>670819
No. There is no problem. We all know what the "vania" refers to and nobody else is being a baby about it.

>>670813
Because Resident Evil is survival horror and Thief is a stealth game. System Shock would loosely fit, and I'm not the guy you were initially arguing with.

I bet you think "rock" accurately describes every genre of rock music as well.

>>670819
Man, I agree with you, please understand that.
But the fact is, "metroidvania" is what people use, and that's just not going to change. We all know what it refers to, and it would be nice if an argument didn't start up every time someone dares to use the word.

>>670827
>a term is inaccurate
>the series in question has objectively changed genres throughout its history, and a Metroid-like Castlevania game hasn't been released in years
>"No, it's completely accurate"
But that's wrong. It's not even a matter of opinion, the term "vania" describes absolutely nothing, because the series lacks a uniform style.

>>670838
We all know what the "vania" refers to and nobody else is being a baby about it.

>>670836
I just don't see why, if people such as you and I recognize the term is outdated and obsolete, we don't just adopt a new term. Why be perpetually obtuse?

>>670831
>Because Resident Evil is survival horror and Thief is a stealth game
But I'm arguing that those are sub-genres of action/adventure.
You can't really say "NOPE, YOU CAN CLASSIFY THEM IN A MORE SPECIFIC WAY, SO THEY CAN'T ALSO BE THIS MORE BROAD THING"
It just doesn't work.
Resident Evil and Thief fit that other guy's definition of action/adventure. That's simply all there is to it.

>>670853

You're right. Let's start a committee and start having meetings between us distinguished people to come up with a new term. I'm sure with our combined genius we can accurately describe video games to people.

>>670819
sotn expanded upon the metroid formula by offering rpg leveling and threw in loads of little collectables, more secret areas, and more story.

the term "metroidvania" defines the spectrum that lies between metroid's solitary exploration and the handheld/sotn castlevania's collectathon-ness

it's a genre that didn't really exist until those series perfected the formula and it's a well understood term

>>670841
Take this scenario into consideration:

>someone is unfamiliar with the Metroid series
>they have played recent Castlevania games, like the Lords of Shadow titles
>they read a review on a website for a game dubbed a "Metroidvania"
>the game interests them because they enjoyed the gameplay of Lords of Shadow
>they buy the game and are instantly disappointed because it plays nothing like the Castlevania they had as a frame of reference
Or what about someone who only played the NES titles?

Or the PS2 hack and slashes?

The term is inaccurate and needs to be removed from the gaming vocabulary.

It was fine a decade ago, but it is completely devoid of accuracy now.

>>670853
Because it isn't obtuse. We all know what "metroidvania" means.
Adopting a new term is pretty much impossible. It's just too late for that. There's no going back at this point.
It'd be like trying to get everyone to stop using "xerox" as a verb, and use "photocopy" instead.
Or trying to get everyone to stop saying "kleenex" instead of "tissue".

>>670874

Alright, look, you've been in here long enough shitting up a thread over the most inconsequential thing next to filters and zsnes. I'll give you a 4/10 for trying to invent the next wave of easy /vr/ trolling but let's hope it doesn't catch on.

>>670712
Metroid was directly influenced by mario and Zelda.
And super metroid has a very similar progression style and sense of freedom to aLttP.

>>670874
>it was fine a decade ago
>when most of the Castlevania games were action platformers
Really?

Well, since exploration is pretty much the basis for these games, let's use that as a base. Are newer Metroidvanias still labyrinthian in their construction? I haven't played Cave Story or anything newer.

How about Labyrinthians? Or Explorathons, due to their constant and lengthy quest for finding new items to further the game? Something like that.

>>670934
Fucking kill me

>>670934
Both of those are awful terms. It smacks of FIVE O BONG british sterotypes trying to make a game genre.

does anyone want to answer OPs question

>>670934
how about Metroidvania-when-castlevania-was-like-metroid-for-that-brief-period-of-10-years-while-not-refering-to-the-nes-games-or-snes-games-and-not-the-n64-game-or-that-one-fighting-game-that-was-on-wii-I-think-oh-and-not-that-other-n64-game-but-like-exploring-you-know

does that clarify it enough for you

>>670963

This is more fun actually

Way to derail the thread, autists.

>>670978

I gave an answer before I went balls deep into the derail. I feel my work is done.

>>670983

Don't pretend to be me. I want a real answer on this >>670934 We on /vr/ have the unique opportunity to influence classic gaming on a larger scale.

>>670861
Sure, I'm up for that.

>>670869
>sotn expanded upon the metroid formula by offering rpg leveling and threw in loads of little collectables, more secret areas, and more story.
Emphasis on story, collectibles, and an RPG experience system predates SotN. See: Dragon Slayer series, Zelda II, etc.

There were also more Metroid-style games prior to SotN than you care to admit, SotN just became more well known than most of them.

The genre existed prior to Castlevania adopting it and continues to exist now that Castlevania has discarded it. Castlevania should not be seen as representative of that type of gameplay, because it factually is not any longer.

There are 28 main Castlevania releases. Only 7 of those adopt the Metroid style of gameplay. 75% of all the Castlevania games ever released do not play similarly to Metroid.

Castlevania does not stand for the same type of gameplay as Metroid. "Metroidvania" is an inaccurate and contradictory term.

>>670963
I was that first reply. I'm not going to suddenly change my answer. I've done my part.

Have some music, I guess.
It's a pretty big part of the atmosphere of Demon's Crest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JpcE4xg8I0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3oqlaC7uDU

>>671005

Eh, I lied. It's not fun anymore. You have to expand the troll at some point. Just repeating yourself is tiring.

>>671025
>post objective facts that cannot be refuted
>LOL STOP TROLLING
The term is inaccurate. You can continue to use an inaccurate term and defend it all you want, but it there is no denying its lack of accuracy. Luckily, roughly 80% (just an estimate, don't hold me to that) of all Metroid games ever released play similarly, so the Metroid part of the term is what describes the vast majority of its meaning.

Which is why the "vania" should either be dropped altogether in favor of Metroidlike, or a new term should be adopted.

>>670992

>Don't pretend to be me.

I wasn't.

>We on /vr/ have the unique opportunity to influence classic gaming on a larger scale.

By making up a new term to describe something that already has an adequate term?

>>671030
>By making up a more accurate term to describe something that already has an inaccurate term?
ftfy

>>671029

I'm just saying, your shtick was kind of funny before but that long post pretty much killed it. It's a good persona and it definitely shits up threads, but it's kind of one note, you know? Probably worth a 6/10 though.

/vr/ - pedantry, scanlines and emulator vanity.
>nyoura rickets-like
There you have it, we're calling this shit rickets-lickes.

>>671041
Well, I guess I should be glad my posts make for poor trolls, considering I'm not trolling. I'm sorry you refuse to even begin to think about the term as an identifier of a specific type of gameplay and acknowledge that it isn't an accurate term solely for the reason that it has been in use for so long, but I digress. Tradition is hard to overturn, no matter how illogical that tradition may be.

>>671029
A video game genre that in accurately describes the games it encompasses?! Hold the fucking phone!

They're all messed up, dude. Get over it.

>>671062
Metroidvania is surely the worst offender. Why be content with something that most will readily acknowledge is painfully inaccurate?

>>671054

That's more like it. I think you could expand the persona more in that area. You'll be skirting the line between troll-persona and straight up comedy character once you start hitting the "tradition" territory but I feel like as long as it's on the subjects of video games, you can make that persona seem more authentic. Get into the broader subject of video game terms and start underlying other fake-problems with other made-up terms and you'll start a wave of insanity over /vr/ much like the filter BS.

Why is the distinction even necessary?
There are tons of 2D platformers that require some degree of exploration and backtracking, but don't have level design like metroid.
The whole idea of it being this separate, untouchable genre is pointless.

This thread is weird. Since when has "castleroid/metroidvania" become a genre descriptor? It means "Castlevania from SotN and later". It is not a part of the genre nomenclature at all.

Calling Metroid games "metroidvanias" is like calling FPS games "Halos".

>>671104
Since websites like gamespot, gamefaqs and tigsource adopted it.

>>671104
>It is not a part of the genre nomenclature at all
Where have you been for the past 5 or 6 years?

>>671082
>If I keep asserting that you're trolling, surely you will be a troll!
I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but I actually do believe that it is an inaccurate term. I have laid out my arguments and supporting facts as to why the Castlevania series is not representative of the same type of gameplay as Metroid. I even did a bit of math for you, but I suppose even that won't pierce your willful ignorance. I have successfully proven that the majority of Castlevania titles do not play like Metroid, a fact you continue to ignore in favor of asserting that I'm a troll so you can continue to use an inaccurate term.

Why do you cling so tightly to this term instead of thinking for yourself? Just because a majority of people are using an inaccurate term and have done so for a long period of time does not magically grant it accuracy when investigating it further. It just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Period.

You can either deal with that by remaining willfully ignorant and demonizing your opponents (as you have demonstrated), or by accepting the facts and trying to come up with a new term (as I have). You can either be willfully ignorant, or search for a better alternative.

Why do you cling to it so tightly? Just because it's so commonly used?

>>671115
Gamespot used the word "metroidvania" in their reviews?

>>671118
In the real world.

>>671118
>the past 5 or 6 years?

Even more honestly.

>>671127
They even made a video about the word that was linked in a similar thread ages ago.

>>671128
"Metroidvanias" are SotN, CotM, HoD, DoS, PoR and OoE. That's it. These are the metroidvanias. There arne't any more.

>>671140
Well, I don't sue Gamespot, because it's one of the worst. Neither should you. The word actually means >>671141 .

Just like "2.5 D" is Streets of Rage like pseudo 3D. I know some really ignorant people have been calling 2d gameplay with 3d graphics this for some incomprehensible reason, but that doesn't make it right.

People write "your mom". Doesn't mean you should, too.

>>671141
Popular gaming journalists sites such as Destructoid and Kotaku have been using the term to describe any game that has platforming, a nonlinear structure, and is in 2D. Just to make you aware of where the people supporting this drivel are getting their ammo.

It's a widely used inaccurate term that people use only for the reason that others are using it.

>>671104
the "vania" part of "metroidvania" is there because Metroid is a far more minor component of the genre than you'd assume. Follow the timeline.

Metroid and Metroid II come out. Almost nobody gives a shit about Metroid II.

Symphony of the Night is released, BEFORE Super Metroid, which comes one year later.

Circle of the Moon comes out a year before Metroid Fusion.

After that we get Zero Mission and nothing else from Metroid, while Castlevania offers up Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, and Order of Ecclesia.

Acting like Metroid is the sole determiner of the genre is disingenuous. Castlevania essentially kept it alive.

>>671131

Shit, you did it. This is dipping into the well of "Dreamcast isn't retro" trolling. There was someone like you a week or two ago who wrote long drawn out posts about people's inadequacies in regards to not accepting that Dreamcast doesn't belong on /vr/. This is a nice combination of the two and you honestly did make me laugh with this post. But, yeah, I guess I'd say /vr/ has some top notch artists in your department. /v/ is just too on the nose with it but posts like yours are practically gourmet meat.

>>671152
>2.5D is pseudo-3D
NO.
NO YOU NIGGER.
2.5D IS SOMETHING LIKE KLONOA OR NIGHTS. GAMEPLAY IS RESTRICTED TO A 2D PLANE, BUT THERE'S SOME 3D ELEMENTS THAT AFFECT GAMEPLAY, LIKE THAT 2D PLANE WEAVING AROUND IN 3D SPACE OR SOME SHIT.
I REFUSE TO CALL SOMETHING LIKE AFTERBURNER "2.5D". THAT SHIT'S RETARDED.

>>671176
Shut up. Space harrier is 2.5D.

>>671190
that's a rail shooter, my child

>>671167
Oh, those. But those two are absolutely random. Don't take them seriously.

>>671190
FUCK NO IT ISN'T.

>>671172
>Symphony of the Night is released, BEFORE Super Metroid, which comes one year later.
0/10

While I recognize your point that Castlevania had more frequent releases while adopting the genre, you failed to mention the Prime trilogy, which demonstrates the same type of progression as the 2D and would bring them to about the same number of releases in that time frame, 5 compared to 6.

>>671176
>2.5D IS SOMETHING LIKE KLONOA OR NIGHTS.
No, junior, it's not. The term refers to games that actually use a fake third dimension, like the vertical dimension in beat'em ups. They have a jump-state that works as a pseudo Z axys, and that's why it's called 2.5D.

Then some weird people started getting confused in the PSOne era. About how a 2D game can have 3D grpahics. It's historically inaccurate, it's a misnomer, it's ignorant, don't use it.

>>671176
>I REFUSE TO CALL SOMETHING LIKE AFTERBURNER "2.5D"
And Afterburner isn't 2.5D, holy shit, it's a rail-shooter, for fuck's sake, I'm out.

Fuck this kindergarten, what the fuck is wrong with /vr/ today?

>>671231

Well according to any definition on the internet it includes your definition and also the definition that encompasses games like Trine which are 3D but still on a 2D plane.

>>671245
It's always this bad, it's just more easily exposed when you try and discuss big-boy topics.

>>671245
>day
There's your problem.

>>671225
>confusing 1994 for 1998
I blame all the finals I just went through on zero sleep, jesus dick, sorry. full retard moment.

But still if we're including 3D platformers with item-based gating we can toss in Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness as well. There's still significantly more Castlevania games in the genre.

>>671259
>and also the definition that encompasses games like Trine which are 3D but still on a 2D plane.
It makes no sense, though, historically or semantically.

>>671269
Aww, /vr/ things there's a nighttime /vr/ just like its twin brother /v/! That's cute.

>>671273

It makes sense if you just accept it though. It's just a made-up term anyway

>>671152
All the sites I mentioned are shitty and full of stupidity and pseudo-intellectual drivel. That's the whole point.

>>671231
I'M NOT GOING TO CALL SOMETHING 2.5D JUST BECAUSE OF THE GRAPHICS. HOW SHIT IS SHOWN TO THE PLAYER IS MOSTLY INCONSEQUENTIAL.
I'M GOING TO CALL SOMETHING 2D, OR 3D, OR 2.5D, BASED ON THE GAMEPLAY, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY SHIT THAT MATTERS.
DONKEY KONG COUNTRY RETURNS IS 2D.
GALAXY FORCE IS 3D.
KLONOA IS 2.5D.

>>671245
THE GUY I REPLIED TO SAID PUEDO-3D GRAPHICS = 2.5D GAME.
BLAME HIM. ALL I'M DOING IS SAYING HE'S FULL OF SHIT.

>>671281
The joke is that the board is entirely dead at that time.

>>671271
Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness lack the freedom of exploration and nonlinear progression. They're not the same type of game.

What we really need to determine is whether "Metroidvania" describes a genre, or simply describes a style of progression through the game world. Then we can determine with what to substitute it and can finally lay it to rest.

>>671292
Let's keep global rule 6 in mind, shall we.

>>671175
>IF I LAUGH OVER YOUR TALKING, IT'S LIKE I DON'T HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT YOU SAY!
Biden pls

>>671305
My posts have quality, informative content.
Capslock does not change that, but I guess if you're going to whine about it, I'll stop.

>>671312

Well, don't write comedy if you don't want to make people laugh.

I kind of like the sentiment I read earlier of one disgruntled fellow, so I might rephrase it here:

Why is it called Metroidvania?

This implies that those large exploration Castlevania games are similar in design to Metroid games, which is not necessarily true. While both use large areas, Metroid always designs those areas with more purpose, rather than as essentially jumbled hallways with enemies inside. You might also say that both games do gradual character upgrades with new powerups and abilities, but strong differences exist there too. In Metroid the only means of upgrading and getting stronger is to explore and seek them out. Sometimes you will find bosses must be defeated, but in the end you are rewarded for your exploration. In those castlevania games, those upgrades are for the most part obtained through grinding and farming, whether they be levels, soul/weapon drops, etc. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does not speed the message of Metroid.

Instead of calling them 'Metroidvania', why not call them something more accurate? La-Mulana is somewhat similar and is called an Action/Exploration game. Why not apply the same label for castlevania games like Symphony of the Night and Aria of Sorrow? It certainly is a more accurate description.

Keep in mind that I love both types of CV game and intend no attack on those games. I merely wish to point this out and suggest a different title to describe this type of Castlevania game.

>>671292
>I'M NOT GOING TO CALL SOMETHING 2.5D JUST BECAUSE OF THE GRAPHICS
2.5D is emulated 3D with 2D graphics. It's about gameplay and not graphics. Specifically, in beat'em ups like Double Dragon et al.

And I'm the same "that guy" poster. I gave you an example - a beat'em up. Why you thought about rail-shooters ("scrolling 3D shoot'em ups") is beyond me.

Learn some genre nomenclature, for fuck's sake. A learn it from a better source than the goddamn fucking Gamefaqs forums and Gamespot reviews.

>>671298
I'd definitely say it's a style of progression. Compare SotN to Super Metroid for example, their mechanics are quite different with one having a more platform-action paradigm and one mixing in more RPG paradigms like base stats and inventory equipment.

What makes them both similar in playstyle is:

-Emphasis on exploration over twitch reflexes and platforming/combat; the platforming/combat is there to support progressing through the levels, not the other way around.
-Areas are unlocked by finding items that give you new movement/interaction abilities; high jumps, transformations, breaking new blocks, etc

So the emphasis on nonlinear exploration and progression based on item utility is what defines them.

You know, when you look at it this way, they're basically sidescrolling adventure games. Their flow is no different in mechanism than, say, Link to the Past, but the sidescrolling elements made them look distinct.

I'd be fine with a push to lump "metroidvanias" into the sometimes ill-defined Adventure genre with Zelda et al.

>>671336
>Action/Exploration game
But that would be way too simple, anon.

>>671336
Finally, another sensible person.

I like the "action/exploration" term, it really fits the genre well. It's distinguished enough from action/adventure while still strongly denoting the type of gameplay present. The only way I could see it being improved would be if we could somehow denote the nonlinear aspect as well without making it too wordy.

>>671338
>Why you thought about rail-shooters is beyond me
Yeah, it's a real fucking mystery when you say things like
>2.5D is emulated 3D with 2D graphics
And that's exactly what all the rail shooters I've mentioned are.
They are entirely made up of 2D graphics made to look 3D. There's not a single polygon in any of them.

>>671385
What about top-down action/adventures or isometric RPGs or first-person dungeon crawlers?

>>671352
>their mechanics are quite different with one having a more platform-action paradigm and one mixing in more RPG paradigms like base stats and inventory equipment.

This is why they call it metroidvania. To give names to games that start you with nothing, have a map, and require you to pick up items to progress in that map. Adding both games to the name qualifies that it can either be stat based or not and that true level design can vary. It's the ideas present in these games that delineate this genre. It's about a feel that both of these games have that are no where to be found in shit like Zelda because it's not even close to the same game unless you get in to semantics which is just silly anyway.

>>671382
Isn't the non-linearity sort of implied?
How can you really explore in a linear game?

>>671352
So should we be after an adjective to tack onto the genre noun instead of an entirely new noun? "Sidescrolling" could very well be that adjective, but 3D games under the same style of progression exist (the Prime games, Dark Souls, etc.). I think the exploration and nonlinear aspects are the two strongest identifiers of the genre. I think we should try and come up with some kind of term that describes both those aspects.

>>671404
>How can you really explore in a linear game?

I mean, there's games like Final Fantasy that allow you room to explore but are completely linear.

>>671413
This. Hell, most of the Zelda series fits that description as well.

To me, nonlinearity implies a chance to complete major events in different sequences instead of following the game through in one rigid structure. It's less to do with room for exploration and more to do with progression through the game.

>>671404
There are often secrets in linear games, different approaches to the same enemies and platforming sections, item combinations etc. You can even explore the graphics for details if you really feel like it.

>>671403
But...how does Zelda being "not even close" jive with what you just said?

>start with nothing, have a map, require you to pick up items to progress

The only real distinction Zelda has compared to these is that it's top-down perspective instead of sidescrolling, and it has compartmentalized dungeon segments.

>>671409
I'd say start calling them all Adventure games, and clarify perspective when we have to. We can start separating mechanics from engines that way. Metroid and Castlevania are sidescrolling adventure games. LttP and Link's Awakening are topdown or birdseye adventure games. Metroid Prime and Ocarina of Time are 3D adventure games, or if you really want to split hairs you can even call Prime a first person adventure game and OoT third person adventure.

Modularity, yo.

>>671420
I'm pretty sure a game can be non-linear without having any major events untill the very end.

>>671396
>What about top-down action/adventures or isometric RPGs or first-person dungeon crawlers?
Depends on if a third axis is ever involved.
Something like Sonic 3D Blast or Snake Rattle 'n' Roll I'd say are 3D, because height and jumping and whatnot are very important in the game.
Something like Zelda I would say is 2D, because almost everything about the gameplay is distinctly 2D, even though Roc's Feather exists.

>>671431

Because it's semantics. It doesn't matter what I said, when somebody says metroidvania, they don't want zelda. Nobody thinks of Zelda when somebody says Metroidvania. Nobody wants Zelda.

>>671431
Zelda is far more linear and gives you very clear objectives.

>I'd say start calling them all Adventure games, and clarify perspective when we have to
Adventure games are Myst and Monkey Island in my mind. That's why the action/adventure distinction exists. I like the idea of incorporating "exploration" into it somehow, because there really is a more intense focus on that in Metroid and the Metroid-like Castlevanias.

Nonlinear action/exploration is too wordy though. Needs to be trimmed down.

>go in to thread expecting good ideas for what to play next

>moronic cunts arguing semantics and throwing a fucking fit because YOUR DEFINITION DOES NOT MATCH MY DEFINITION


You are all adult men, right? Where the fuck is the maturity?

>>671464
>Nonlinear action/exploration is too wordy though. Needs to be trimmed down.

How about metroidvania? Gets the point across pretty quickly without being wordy.

>>671448
This entire discussion is about how "metroidvania" is an awkward and misleading and not very useful term.

I also pointed out that you can clarify "sidescrolling adventure" or "platform adventure"

If we want to just throw up our hands and keep just saying metroidvania there's really nothing to discuss here.

TALK ABOUT VIDEO GAMES YOU ASSHOLES

>>671474
It's inaccurate.

>>671480
How about we discuss our favorite metroidvanias, AS PER THE OP'S POST YOU FUCKING MONG.

>>671464
>Adventure games are Myst and Monkey Island in my mind.
Most people do make a distinction between action, text and point n' click adventures anyway, so there is no issue in using the term.

>>671464
>Zelda is far more linear and gives you very clear objectives
Depends on which Zelda you're talking about, really.
The NES games certainly leave progression entirely up to the player.

>>671464
>you very clear objectives.
So do SotN and Metroid. I mean, they're not as clear as zelda, but a lot of players find them very easy to follow.

>>671480
>This entire discussion is about how "metroidvania" is an awkward and misleading and not very useful term.

It's not awkward or misleading. When somebody says metroidvania, they want a game similar to metroid or the castlevania games like SotN. Only one stupid fucker in this thread said it would be misleading and I'm pretty sure he's mentally retarded.

>>671516
I think, if anything, your inability to count implies that you're the one suffering a mental disability.

The only reason you don't find it awkward or misleading is because it has been in use for so long. Under scrutiny it doesn't hold up.

I'm perfectly content with just using "Metroidlike" and getting the "vania" the fuck out of there, because that's where the problems stem from.

>>671516
It is misleading. A lot of platformers that require exploration are mechanically a lot different from metroid and castlevania, despite having similar level design. Exploration platformer is more broad and less misleading when talking about La Mulana, for example.

>>671516
>It's not awkward or misleading.
Calling Metroid a metroidvania is awkward and a little stupid too.

VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES

>>671490
>text adventure
>point and click adventure
Makes me wonder what stuff like Grim Fandango is.

>>670713
>Castlevania played nothing like Metroid until SotN

I'm going to have to disagree. Simon's Quest was very much like Metroid. Wholly continuous, progress prevented until certain items were acquired. It was just blander.

Konami did a much better job with the Metroid formula on Maze of Galious.

>>671532
>The only reason you don't find it awkward or misleading is because it has been in use for so long.

You're right. Because over time it has been quite clarified and this genre of metroidvania has had a decent amount of entries both commercial and indie. So when somebody asks for a metroidvania, people can give suggestions because it's a common occurrence.

>>671543
>>671572
Stop.

VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES

>>671575
Fuck you, either get back on topic or get out. This thread is about metroidvanias, not the semantics of shitposting.

>>671572
We are actually discussing videogames, my child, while you're spamming. Please stop.

>>671550
Also, shame on me for not mentioning Goonies 2.

>>671550
Simon's Quest played more like Zelda II and the Dragon Slayer games in my opinion. SotN was the point where they really went full-blown with the exploration and upgrades.

>>671581

Are you a priest now?

>>671547

Don't worry anon, it's still an adventure game.

>>671584
Spamming "VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES" is not off topic, and will not encourage other people to be on topic.
It's just shitposting.
Stop doing it, and stop defending it.

>>671594

You mean where it went full metroid-like?

>>671598
Yeah, but WHAT KIND?
Tank adventure?

>>671610
Sorry,
>Spamming "VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES VIDEO GAMES" is not off topic
Meant not on topic.

>>671584
Hey please find me in the rules where it says a thread can only have one topic, that the topic can't change during the course of the thread, and that it's okay to break the board rules and spam and shitpost if you personally decide you don't like the new topic even though it involves videogames.

>>671593
I've been trying to replace "you fucking retard" or "you simpering autist" or "fuck you you stupid shitstain" with "my child"

it's been helping my rage a lot

>>671613
Yeah.

>>671619

What is with this mentality in this thread? Why does it have to be super clarified? It's just an adventure game.

>>671628
Nobody cares

>>671642
I'm making a joke. That's okay isn't it?

>>671639
But it's not like metroid you fucking idiot. It's more like zelda. I'd say action/adventure exploration.

>>671645
Okay.

>>671594
Half of Zelda II maybe, the lack of an overhead map in SQ kinda breaks that comparison. Didn't the first Dragon Slayer have overhead or isometric battles?

>>671646
I'm not the guy you're replying to buy..

No you god damn chink mother fucker. This is fucking serious and I'm sick of all the opposition in this fucking thread. We can't use metroidvania anymore because it's awkward and misleading. We need a new term to lump it into the genre containing Zelda because it's essentially the same thing. I'm so sick of this fucking shit.

>>671661
I'm not talking about the word "metroidavnia".
Can't you read?

>>671650
>SotN is more like Zelda than Metroid
I laughed.

>>671659
I admittedly haven't played the first one, but none of the ones I have played did.

>>671661
Action/exploration is the closest we've gotten and I'm pretty content with it. I'll probably use it in future posts. Either that or Metroidlike.

>>671492
Indeed, and by the same rules some existing Castlevania games, like Order of Ecclesia, have numerous linear sections.

And now that >>671431 points this idea out, it would be helpful to try and redefine the genre terms used for Zelda and Metroid, as well as games like them. Too often I see people simply having to call games 'Zelda clones' or 'Zelda-like' but never a real genre. It seems we might want to discuss this.

However, as >>671471 and >>671487 point out (with some serious energy, he needs to chill out), this is a thread not about semantics and our discussion is off-topic. As such I have made a new thread in which we can discuss this matter appropriately.

>>671675

>>671661
You are literally flipping a shit because of words. Are you actually genuinely autistic?

>>671661
It's hopeless, anon.
Gaming journalists don't know shit about games and like throwing around terms like metroidvania and artificial difficulty, or whatever the hip new word is, so they can look like they know what they are talking about. And people will parrot the regardless of hwo stupid they are.
The best you can do is prepare your body for more aneurysms in the future.

>>671669
I don't give a flying fuck you fucking moron. I saw that you made a joke at my expense and I'm replying to your moronic, childish, and downright extra-chromosome'd ass. How fucking dare you take this in vain. I'm trying to do this "genre" a service by clarifying its actual meaning. This way, when somebody asks for a "metroidvania" we can let him know it's been officially renamed to Action/adventure exploration. That way we can suggest games like Zelda instead of games they actually wanted. Fuck, man.

>>671698
While I appreciate your passion for your hobby and your attempt to introduce a standard of clarity, I would urge you to consider the following before you suffer a stroke.

No argument has yet convinced anyone who didn't want to be convinced. People are people and arguments aren't magic.

>>671716

This isn't the time to be a pussy. I'm taking a stand for what I feel is right and I'm not going to fucking stop because of some pansy ass mother fucker like you. If someone actually said "metroidvania" to me in person, I'd not only stop talking to them, I'd probably walk away too. There's only room in this world for the truly enlightened so either except that "metroidvania" is awkward and misleading or fuck off. That includes you, you piece of hot-off-the-presses horse shit mother fucker. Don't you dare talk to me again.

>>671735
>>671716
>>671698
>>671686
>>671683

Please stop discussing this here, and in such a ridiculous manner. I already did a blow to this thread, I won't have others keep on doing so when there's a perfectly on-topic thread now devoted to this exact line of discussion.

OP, I am really sorry about all this mess. I never expected or intended for my question to explode and take your thread over. This is really a sucky thing to happen to a guy especially when he already got cancerbombed by /v/. I hope that this mess did not waste too much of your time and/or well-being.

As a small attempt to apologize, I would say the best such game is La-Mulana. Great atmosphere formed along with very good 'retro' graphics, great music, and some challenging puzzles.