/vr/ - Retro Games

He is pretty right about those games but if he ever gets around to doing Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time it will be a shitfest.

>>668524
>About Mega Man X?

His performance in Game Grumps killed all his credibility in that one.

>>668568
What'd he do?

He's a shit cunt.

Video related, James and Mike beat Super C in one sitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvBoAvthcX0

>>668524
In order:

>Is he right about Simon's Quest being made to take more time to beat?
Probably, although the designers could genuinely have been trying to make a game akin to Zelda II and trying to incorporate storytelling and exploration into the series. That said, the US translation was shit and even the original JP text was sketchy at times when it came to giving you insight as to how-to-do-what-where. It was a flop, and the idea it was deliberately made to eat up hours of your time isn't exactly farfetched. His comparison of Metroidvanias to fast food, while apt in ways to some perspectives, was opinionated as fuck.

>About Mega Man X
What exactly? That it is an excellent game? Yes. That it teaches you shit about it through the use of 'show, don't tell'? Very much so, but Mega Man has a history of this anyway (which was also touched on obviously).

>Super Castlevania IV
He did a bit of a verbal dance this whole bit, but he is right in that the game could have been better built around adjustments made to the jumping and whip. The Sub-Weapons are rendered moot for the most part and the platforming is pretty easy as a result. Does that make it a terrible game? That's a matter of perspective; for some it's great that the game controls so well and that with the basic fundamentals (moving and whipping) down you can blow through the game, but for others it's underwhelming that other aspects of the series prior to that point aren't incorporated here as well as could be.

>>668547
From what he's said on Game Grumps it sounds like the upcoming Zelda episode subscribes to the "Saving Zelda" way of thinking.

>>668591
Just plays sloppily. I wouldn't say that kills his cred tho.

>>668524

I just heard the little jingle when I saw that image.

And personally yeah I think he's right about most of it.

>>668595
>Video related
How exactly?

>>668637
More than that. He's voiced many a terrible opinion about games since he started. Voiced very poorly thought out things compared to anything he's ever said in sequelitis.

There's so many genres and incentives in games he just doesn't "get."

>>668686

maybe you can go into detail about this and cite actual videos

>>668695
I've watched too many to count and been astounded by how bad his opinions are. No, I didn't jot down when and where he said something unbelievably shitty, unfortunately.

>>668686
>Voiced very poorly thought out things compared to anything he's ever said in sequelitis.
Game Grumps is done on the spot, I'm sure he didn't spend a bunch of time thinking about his opinions like in Sequelitis.

When Arin puts work into a video like sequelitis he has a lot of good stuff to say.

But on Game Grumps he often says really dumb, illogical shit and doesn't even bother to back it up with reason. Guy is an enigma to me.

He has a pretty narrow idea of what makes a good game, I think. He's the type that thinks gameplay > everything. I think that judging or designing a game that way is foolish, you should look at it as a complete package and how the different aspects complement each other. No one part of a game should be considered the most important.

>>668698
Yes, it's improv. But it was a window into how many opinions he cling to without much basis. Jon will compliment a game or genre and Arin'll go off about how bad it is without much more than a "feeling" to justify it.

Sometimes I get it, I admit. Some games leave me with a bad taste that I can't explain. But he'll just dump on whole genres without much thought.

>>668524
for the most part what hes says is pretty true

>>668595
They look so fucking high

>>668709
>He has a pretty narrow idea of what makes a good game, I think.
Yes, very much so. I agree with him when he says a game is good as far as I've seen, but there's so many games he'll rip on that I also consider to be excellent.

>>668686
That last sentence I agree with; his opinions on a variety of things can be rather narrow at times. The comparison to Sequelitis, however, brings me to this: He actually has the time to put down his thoughts, consider them, and gather perspective before coming back to them when making a scripted analysis. When you have the time to do that, you have the capacity to reflect on things and see if your thoughts change or if there's something that might be missing in your thesis that you hadn't initially considered. Game Grumps is basically just them going at it, so anything he does respond to comes with moments of thought, so it's entirely possible that he could just have his foot in his mouth over a lot of things.

Not saying that excuses him of what he has said, but rather putting forth that some have trouble just randomly discussing a topic (and these two in particular tend to flop through a lot of shit between trying for yucks and actually being serious). That he does an alright job when he's able to take the time to think what he says through is enough for me, even if I call foul on some of the things he just blurts out.

>>668686
My biggest gripe is that he doesn't seem to understand the whole RPG genre. From what he said, I concluded that every game shouldn't have locations that are not imperative to the gameplay.

>>668717
>>668742 here, and I agree that he gets overzealous in his complaints, although Jon does that too. In fairness, Jon tends to be wishy-washy as fuck when he's put on the spot, so he'll often backpedal and try to say he's not trying to be so hard; I often wonder if Arin doesn't because he has a 'well, I said what I said' attitude or if he just doesn't put any thought into such incidents past them.

I imagine if I were put on the spot I'd likely be apt to make some flubs myself, but then again I'm also the type to look back and make comments about having done such things.

>>668742
He strikes me as somebody who doesn't fully consider most of the things he says in regular conversation. I can imagine he puts his foot in his mouth a lot with people. It seems evident in the way he'll have to forceably bite his tongue when he has the urge to correct Jon.

>>668709
>you should look at it as a complete package and how the different aspects complement each other. No one part of a game should be considered the most important.
I found this really interesting, anon. I've always thought about games as a blend of elements that sum up, but the elements aren't of equal weight - gameplay is the most important.

>>668764
Normally I admire when somebody is wishy-washy enough to consider both sides of things, but Jon definitely caves to Arin too easily. Problem is he doesn't think of facts to support his argument when Arin has this whole rant-mode going. All he can come back with "I guess you're right."

>>668760
Yeah, I think that's a big thing about him that rubs me the wrong way: He appreciates 'show, don't tell', but to an extreme. Take one of his favorite games for example: Super Metorid. And it's an excellent choice, too; not saying it isn't. But look at how it presents itself. It tells you everything it intends to in the first minute or so of the game, and does NOTHING but show you thereafter. The immersion is solely on the 'scene', rather than the 'plot'; what you see in front of you, the sounds you hear as you go, the enemies and challenges you are met with AS you are met with them. Otherwise you're fairly left in the dark, aside from a few foreshadowing bits.

It's like he played this, and it basically became what he envisions a game should be. But sometimes this mindset becomes narrow, and he starts applying it to genres that might actually be more centered on other forms of storytelling, like character relationships, dialogue, connecting with various individuals and settings through learning about them and their history. It's almost as though he fell in love with silent film, but then started thinking Opera or Theatre should be the same.

>>668709
Game mechanics > everything.
Step up fagmeister.

>>668792
>gameplay is the most important.
Why?

Look at Donkey Kong Country for example. From a gameplay point of view it's not special at all. But it has such glorious atmosphere, graphics, music and level design that it really is a near masterpiece in my mind.

Now, I think that when coming up with a -concept- for a game perhaps gameplay should be given the most consideration. But when the final product is concerned I don't think it can be looked at as the most important thing.

>>668792
Not him and I agree with you for the most part, but there are times when other elements can eclipse the gameplay. Sometimes you want a good story from a game more than anything. There's no perfectly right blend.

Gameplay is definitely very important, but how elements come together to form the whole experience can be the most important thing.

>>668797
So many times I've found myself on Jon's side, and Arin say "blah blah here's why it sucks," and I'll think of the perfect retort, but all Jon says is "I guess you're right." Although I've seen it argued that Jon does that to avoid arguments, and I guess that makes sense, because Jon does come across as a lot more conscious of fan reaction to their videos.

>>668816
>Look at Donkey Kong Country for example. From a gameplay point of view it's not special at all.
Yeah, that is why DCK is an average platformer. I never saw it as anything special.

>>668798
>It's almost as though he fell in love with silent film, but then started thinking Opera or Theatre should be the same.
That's a very good way of putting it, and I agree.

>>668774
Yeah, I think that's a reasonable assessment. Not that I'm saying it is or isn't true, but that if his expressions over that program speak for his personality in casual life, I wouldn't be surprised if he were like that.

>>668792
I agree in that, imo, gameplay is the key factor in a game. That said, if the other elements (even just one if bad enough) is off, it can ruin the whole thing for me. SoR 3, for instance, is a pretty good game and as a fan of the entire series I do play it from time to time. That said, damned if the music doesn't underwhelm me by comparison to its predecessors, and sometimes it will just make me want to go play them instead.

>>668829
Jon is definitely less confrontational. He pretty much has to be with how aggressive Arin seems to be about his views. Two people at Arin levels of standoffishness probably don't stay friends for long. Or need longer breaks from each other than the two of them.

>>668830
Sure it's an average platformer. But it's a wonderful work of art / piece of entertainment.

If you only play games based on how strong / unique the gameplay mechanics are then, well you'll play a lot of good games but you're also missing out on so much.

>>668797
Jon is a pussy when it comes to having a conversation with things; if he isn't in his casual life I would be legit surprised. I like that he thinks about what he says enough to not be a stubborn ass, but at the same time I feel like he disclaimers himself a lot just so he won't be subject to backlash. If he is genuinely like that, he's the kind of person I prefer to alternatives, but still it would annoy me to have to urge him not to cop out and just tell me how the fuck he feels. One of those 'but I care about you so I won't want to disagree with you or hurt your feelings' types.

>>668840
The thing is I play video games for the game. I'd rather not sit through sub-par game mechanics for other aspects of the game. Sure there are games that have had interesting things going on in them (Shadow of the Beast has excellent music and the design of everything is great), but it is a VERY basic side scrolling action game with light platforming elements, and if it is on the Genesis version it is just aggravating on how short your reach is/how off the hit detection could be.

>>668821
Yeah, but, well... put it this way. Super Mario 64 has little plot or writing, yet its gameplay is solid and I enjoyed playing it. I can think of a few games like that. Conker's Bad Fur Day had very average gameplay, but its premise was clever and the writing was great. I enjoyed playing it, also. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any other games like that for me.

>>668830
That's why you need to look at a bigger picture than gameplay. If all you see is gameplay and nothing else, of course you're not going to see it as the shining gem it really is.

>>668853
That's fine, but for a lot of people including myself video games are about something broader than that. As long as you don't say "it's a shitty game because the gameplay is weak" then you're not an Arin and I respect your opinion. Arin just plugs his ears and doesn't consider an opposing viewpoint.

>>668851
If the level design and mechanics are just average then it will hamper the experience. It isn't detracting for the fact the music would be great or anything, but that doesn't make a great game for me. Strong games had strong game mechanics and level design.

>>668850
You're not an RPG man, I can see.

>>668863
DKC happens to have really strong level design actually. Maybe the mechanics aren't amazing, but the level design certainly utilizes its potential to the fullest.

>>668874
I thought a lot of them were just okay outside of the mine cart levels which I enjoyed the most.

>>668843
>Jon is definitely less confrontational
From his anecdotes about himself (like with the flight attendents, etc), this is spot on; he's very much a 'make things more comfortable for you' type of guy.

>>668861
But I guess the way Arin approaches it, and how I do too for the most part, is that a game is a game. Arin probably thinks chess is a more worthwhile experience than Call of Duty. Sure, games can borrow elements form other art forms - like music, narrative - but I play games to play a game.

I can't really describe what I want to say. I dunno, it's a balance I guess.

>>668867
Haha, in truth, that's probably a fair judgement. I'm not super keen on them.

>>668678
Because they finished the game easily in one sitting without drawing it out to make more money from the advertising and pandering to retarded children with inane banter, all the while disregarding the reason they have the fan base in the first place, which was creating well thought out reviews and cartoons.

Here is Arin and Jons new channel: http://youtube.com/2kikes1channel

>>668886
"Gameplay" is such a broad criticism though. It covers EVERYTHING the player can do. Gameplay can be broken up into so many sub-categories like level design, enemy placement, control mechanics, physics, etc.

To say it's the most important is both an understatement as it is misleading, because it's really not a single element at all.

>>668895
Can you leave your /v/ at the door and talk like a normal human?

>>668895
This isn't a Game Grumps thread.

>>668910
Well shit nigga I think it is because those niggas don't do shit except get stoned and make some shitty 10 minute video where they talk shit about nothing and suck at children's video games, at which point they claim it wouldn't make a good let's play and drop it.

>>668895
Most people probably watch game grumps FOR the banter. And as much as I like seeing them focus on playing the game, it definitely is a tradeoff when they're focusing that hard.

>>668923
>I don't have any friends so I will play a recording of a conversation some other people had.

>>668926
Look bud, there's no enemies here. You don't have to act the prick.

>>668798
>It's almost as though he fell in love with silent film, but then started thinking Opera or Theatre should be the same.
Well put.

>>668928
Juts caling it like itt is

>>668926

>Not watching it on your laptop for breakfast or when you just want to wind down.
>Less than an hour of material per day.

Yeah, nah, yer a cunt.

>>668932
No, you're dragging your /v/ in on your shoe. Wipe that shit off at the door.

>>668926
>We were having a good conversation about Game Grumps and game design
>You bring this shit in
Seriously? I don't even like them but you are way more insufferable.

>>668827
>>668930
Thanks. I find that I sometimes put my foot in my mouth and end up in that awkward phase of a conversation where what's been said has been said and a pause or even a new topic has occurred, and that shit fiercely rubs me the wrong way. As a result, I try to come off-the-cuff as well as I can, but not without a moment to breathe and think first.

>>668937
This whole thread is off topic. /v/ is for the culture shit.

>>668936
>>668941
A bloo bloo

His Zelda video is going to rustle a few jimjams. From what he's said about it, he doesn't appreciate the additional story elements and he doesn't like it being a more guided experience (which is strange, considering his opinion regarding Metroid vs Castlevania).

I agree.

>>668956
/v/ is treating everyone like shit because you don't like what they like. Don't try to justify it here. This board is supposed to be old enough to recognize that isn't needed.

>>668957
On the plus side, Jon's love of Ocarina probably softened him up to it. And he should be open to it. OoT is a fantastic game, regardless of how much you love the 2D Zeldas.

>>668968
Where did any of that happen? Do you think I'm a meanie because I criticized some videos which are completely devoid of any talent, creativity and originality?

>>668634
>His comparison of Metroidvanias to fast food, while apt in ways to some perspectives, was opinionated as fuck.
That's the thing that bugs me about that video. It's mostly analytical and tries to be objective up until that point, then Ego goes full opinion-mode.

>>668970
You really can't see what an abrasive cunt you've been this entire thread? And are continuing to be for that very post? For real?

>>668972
While I agree with some of what Arin (and Tevis Thompson) say about LoZ, I can't help but feel that his opinion is largely influenced by the fact that he didn't really play Nintendo 64. (Whereas I can't help but feel Jon's opinion is largely influenced by the fact he played mostly Nintendo 64)

>>668995
Yeah, Jon nostalgias WAY too hard for Banjo Kazooie. I don't see half of what he does in that game. He'll praise the most mundane of features, but it's clear he was raised on it and he's allowed the nostalgia.

>>668984
>Stop criticizing my off topic thread!

No, this thread is not about 5th gen and earlier games and consoles, it's about the opinions of some fat stoner and his retarded friend.

>>668981
Yeah, he really seems to have a beef with RPG-esque growth. And it's not like I don't think sometimes this is done poorly (gotta be xLv for this, need these several specific items to kill these several specific enemies even though you otherwise have an array of tools at your disposal), but when he expresses his views on the grindy path of leveling, upgrading equipment and the like, it almost makes him sound like it should either be barebones or absent, which is a bit extreme. I also find it interesting that he would make these nitpicks (like needing x to explore these new areas), when Super Metroid is one of his gems; it seems a bit contradictory, although it probably just goes back to the 'barebones or absent' theory.

>>669007
Opinions of 5th gen and earlier games, specifically. Which is what most of the threads on /vr/ are about. You might want to try that again.

>>669012
It's about some youtube videos. If Arin and Jon have some opinions, they are more than welcome to post them here.

So speaking of the upcoming Sequelitis what does everyone think about Link to the Past vs. Ocarina?

Frankly I wasn't raised on LttP. I played the gameboy Zeldas and OoT, but LttP always struck me as kind of weird. Especially in the graphics department. Weird looking trees, weird green stones with 8's on them, pink hair.

And I LIKED the dialog-heavy approach of OoT and to some degree the gb's. I just know Arin's gonna rip on that.

>>668591

He praises Mega Man X because it gradually teaches the player how to play by trying out different buttons in different situations.

Then he keeps failing to throw the fucking apples in Virgin-Aladdin, selecting a different character in Castlevania 3 and using the fucking ability select in Kirby Milky Way Wishes.

>>669030
>LttP always struck me as kind of weird
>Weird looking trees, weird green stones with 8's on them, pink hair.
Hahaha, YES. I never played SNES games growing up so I went back to play ALttP and it took me so long to get into it because of how weird everything was. It put me off. Then when I went to play the NES games, I braced myself for something similar, and was surprised when shit was pretty standard. What a strange game.

>>669041
it was jon playing all those games

>>669046

I think everyone was still getting used to the 16-bit architecture and making sprites with so many colors at the time.

ALttP has some horrible sprites, like Agahnim and most NPCs.

>>669026
Until you become a janitor your opinion doesn't mean shit.

>>669057
On a non-retro note, that's all the more baffling that they want to make a direct sequel that's even in the same style.

>>669041
I getcha; he was right in one situation, but flopped in others and thus could simply have fluked initially. That said, he was still right and at least knew enough (or researched) enough on MM/X as two series to express it properly.

I also want to put it out there that the Milky Way Wishes one is a bad example; you can play the game normally without any powers, and there's no indication that the game isn't just going 'this is no powers mode'. You kinda need the apples in Aladin and going across the standard buttons (ABC, BAYX, BA) is pretty typical. And Castlevania III shows you their portraits in the corner so you know something has at least occurred, prompting you to maybe try all the buttons (especially given so few on the NES).

Although, given that they both played KSS to remember MWW as the fun fucking part of the game, it is dumb that they herped so hard.

>>669068
>and there's no indication that the game isn't just going 'this is no powers mode'.
Except the tutorials.

That they always SKIP.

>>669053
Arin had his turn with Castlevania III at least, and it was Jon who made use of the character swapping.

They also played Kirby together.

>>669070
I don't mind that they skip the tutorials. It's just when they turn around and BLAME THE GAME because they don't know what to do. It's infuriating.

>>669072
>and it was Jon who made use of the character swapping.

Only after coming back to the game after several months and playing it in private.

>>669070
Yeah, fair enough; I remembered a lot of the tutorials being 'this is how you suck people in and swallow', so I overlooked that as a possibility. My bad.

>>669076
True. That said, my point that Arin did not is still relevant.

Ego has never played a Casltevania game in his life; just watch his GameGrumps let's plays of I/III where he doesn't know shit.

A lot of his points are nonsensical: The whip lag is so miniscule is doesn't matter, and it was never intentional - the dev's just wanted that fancy animation and acknowledge a milisecond of lag wouldn't matter.

The biggest issue with Simon's Quest is the shitty copy/paste level design, and it's poor level design that makes IV bad - not the whip controls.

Megaman X ruined Megaman with a smaller screen, wall-sliding to trivalise jumps, boring pseudo-flat levels and forced grim/dark stories.

>>669185
Who is to say the lag wasn't intentional or built around? It seems that way at times when you consider enemy placement. Also, the point of IV was that the mechanics were underutilized, not whether or not the game was good.

On the note of X:

-How does a smaller screen 'ruin' a game when it's built around the change? It's not as though things outside of the screen's draw are programmed to fuck you from afar.
-The only jumps that are 'trivialized' by wall-jumping are already trivial to begin with (pitgaps); the game is pretty heavily built with it in mind and the sections that call for it have other challenges (such as enemy placement and kill gimmicks) to account for it.
-Point on some of the level design, although for every couple of flat sections, there's a section with some deviance; this isn't altogether that different from classic iterations, and later iterations of X even incorporated more of the gimmick focus (for better and for worse) present in the classic series.
-The story is the most subjective point made; some will mind the dystopian future and how it's not intended chuckles like MM, while others may prefer it. The only forced part is X and Zero though; the rest of it boils down to 'badguys are bad because they're bad, so kill them' and 'humans hate thinking robots because they could threaten their existence', which aren't exactly tryhard concepts. Also, I wouldn't call these 'grimdark' by any measure; surely you know the origins of that term?

I like that one episode of GG Sonic 06 where he explains how completely unenthused he is with most AAA modern games (even *GASP* BInf!) these days and the complete buttdevestation that followed. Top voted comment for the video was seriously "If Arin doesn't like modern games he shouldn't be playing video games at all."

>>669185
I'd say the whip thing is very likely to be intentional. When Mario was designed artists wanted to have Mario crouch before he jumped - how else would you jump, right? But Miyamoto observed the extra frame of animation that would result would cause a delay between the button being pressed and the character jumping on screen. He sacrificed "realism" to improve gameplay experience.

Nothing else in Castlevania has a delay. Sypha waps people with a wand instantaneously. She doesn't draw it, it just appears.

Furthermore enemies spawn with the delay in mind. A fleaman doesn't appear too close for you to respond. A skeleton doesn't stab at you with his sword until a second or so after you see him.

I couldn't disagree with you more, good man.

>>669185
>MMX
>forced grim/dark story

Are you fucking stupid son? MMX's plot consists of the wall of text in the intro, some occaisional banter between X and Zero when Vile shows up, and whatever is in the manual (which at this point in game, few people have anymore).

There is nothing at all "grim/dark" about it.

>>668815
That's like saying Prose > Everything for books, it's not even remotely true.

While I would say his views on MMX are very valid, I'd say you cannot really apply them to all games as MMX is (and please understand that this is not a bad thing) very basic. It is, as he said "jump n' shoot". However when you need to describe a complex system, like in an RPG, you need to have a tutorial. Now of course the tutorial has to be as non-invasive and even interesting as possible (personally I have a soft soft for more snarky tutorials), but sometimes a tutorial is necessary.

Also, I cannot for the life of me understand his opinions on DMC. He comes across as really ignorant, like actually playing games lowers his IQ

>>668816
>From a gameplay point of view it's not special at all.
That's because it's not a game that is special at all.

>But when the final product is concerned I don't think it can be looked at as the most important thing.
You are the cancer.

>>668821
>Sometimes you want a good story from a game more than anything.
I have literally never wanted this.

That's why I have books and movies.

>>669249
No it's like saying the story is everything for a novel and that is exactly right

>>668840
>Sure it's an average platformer. But it's a wonderful work of art / piece of entertainment.

It is not a work of art by any stretch of the imagination; and because it is an average platformer (at best), it is not a wonderful piece of entertainment, since it is a platformer.

>>668851
lolol

I think we're being trolled.

>>668863
That's because they're games. The gaming is the important thing. Because it's a game.

These people would call a tepid book fantastic if it had a pretty cover and good type face, or a movie with a pathetic plot fantastic because it has Vin Diesel and explosions.

>>669280
That's not it at all.

a video game is a piece of work, gameplay is how it is expressed.

>>669275
>My opinions are fact, and I'm on the wrong board

FTFY

>>669070
I don't know the video or the game we're talking about, but if problems come from a tutorial you have to watch not being watched, that game sucks ass.

A good story is important in an RPG, since you're playing a role and therefore the world and the story must be interesting enough for you. The gameplay is important (perhaps more important than the story), but the story still must be at least somewhat interesting with good characters

In a platformer? Nah, princess/macguffin/whatever has been kidnapped, go get it back.

>>669075
I'll blame the game for making a fucking tutorial necessary.

>>669263
You're right.

And that's a large part of why I don't like RPGs.

>>669306
Yeah but they don't seem to pay attention to the game in the first place

Sonic 06 is the biggest offender of this. I know it is a bad game, but at least TRY to pay attention to it. I mean every time I see "Oh it's not about them playing the game it's about the conversations" in the comments I want to scream.

And no I don't know why I watch the videos or read the comments. It must be my masochistic side

>>669321
Fair enough.

>>669320
No, it's about both. Game Grumps wouldn't work as well without the chemistry between Arin and Jon. If they ever intended it to be a serious LP channel then they wouldn't be fucking talking.

>>668695
I cannot recall the video in question, but

>I don't like Turtles in Time
>It's a boring game, all you do is beat up people.

>>669263

While not retro, I didn't remember how fucking bad the Golden sun ones were until recently, they could definitely have been trimmed down a lot, they're fucking groan inducing. On the other hand Blood Dragon gave me a good laugh.

I liked the way star fox did it, provided that you didn't play practice, manuevers and such were presented as they became relevant in the games context and the button combination part only ever appeared as text.

>Meanwhile, on Arin's playthrough.

>>668635

This pleases me greatly.

>>668595

Mike is a shit cunt.

Video related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ZetzIqjDo

>>668634
I think he was just talking about CV metroidvanias
Which are shit anyways. It's full of long hallways and corridors with a bunch of monsters that you blow through within 30 seconds. Also slightly grindy.

>>669342
Dude Arin is a fucking retard calm down

If he never made Game Grumps I might have actually held him in high regard.

>>668524

>Simon's Quest>>668524


Yes, but not all for the right reasons. Exploration style CVs work fine, it's just that Simon's Quest is a shitpile.

>>670049

This, what the fuck happened

>>669332
>I don't like Megaman
>All you do is jump and shoot

>>670046
I shall remain as Jon's shaking face out of spite.

I'm not mad, just sort of dissappointed that my expectations of his playthrough were completely fulfilled.

>>669249
You are comparing a game to art. The mechanics are everything. If it is Monopoly, basketball, horse shoe toss, or Tetris, it is always the mechanics of the game that makes the game, everything else is just a great addition to the game. If the rule set is cumbersome then the game wouldn't be fun to play.

>>669376
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ZetzIqjDo

Asalieri and his anti-Avgn mooks are shit cunts.

At Magfest Egoraptor said he's like to see a show like sequelitis made by someone who disagrees with him.

This bothered me a bit, because there are a LOT of Youtube videos that analyze games in a similar way. It's just no one gives a shit about them because they don't include cartoons and aren't made by the creator of Metal Gear Awesome.

I also think it's dangerous how many consumers don't think about this design stuff themselves. Then they watch Ego's Sequilitis and blindly accept it as fact.

>>670296
The only other shows I know of that analyze games to a similar degree are like... Instig8ive Journalism and TheGamingBrit. If you know of more, hit me up. I love 'em.

As for the second thing, I find it more concerning how many designers don't think about this design stuff. Ego has said designers have contacted him after his Mega Man video and said shit like "I've never thought of that." Like, what the fuck man

>>670326
>Ego has said designers have contacted him after his Mega Man video and said shit like "I've never thought of that."

Please tell me this isn't true. At least tell me that these are wannabe indie devs who no one gives a fuck about.

>>670340
I think it was a Grumps video they talked about it. Pretty sure Arin kept it vague. It probably wasn't any big names.

Let's hope not, anyway.

I want to make a show like Sequelitis, or at least a show that reviews games while giving deep analysis to why certain design choices worked out while other's didn't.

The sad thing is I don't think it would get any attention as just narration and game footage. I need a visual hook like Egoraptor's cartoons. Unfortunately I can't draw.

>>670391
I wanted to do this, too. My problem isn't that I can't draw, however, it's just that I'm not a great speaker. My voice isn't interesting to listen to. I feel like THAT'S the most important thing in video reviews. Some Did You Know Gaming? episodes drive me up the wall because they've brought in people who can't talk for shit.
>that one guy in Two Best Friends Play
sage for non retro[/sage]

>>670412
You can improve that with enough practice. Just look at any long running YouTube commentator. Even JonTron has an awkward sounding voice and stilted way of speaking in his earliest videos.

>>670391

which is why it does kind of suck that egoraptor won't do more sequelitis videos

I agreed with his whole anti-tutorial argument until I watched him on Game Grumps fail at games because he was skipping tutorials.

>>670340
I doubt any big names are listening to Egoraptor.
Its probably inexperienced indie guys who want to get their foot into the industry.

>>670326

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJJaGSV75y0

Mostly talks about RPGs. He's pretty cool.

>>670456
Or in StarFox 64's case, mashing a single button. To use his MMX sequalitis, he didn't even get to the "and shoot" part of the "jump and shoot" equation.

Which is pretty amazing, since the N64 controller is effectively a two button controller with the way it's laid out.

>>670456
>I agreed with his whole anti-tutorial argument until I watched him on Game Grumps fail at games because he was skipping tutorials.

A lot of what he says sounds good and clever out loud, but when you apply it to EVERY video game, you realize its kind of bullshit.

>>670538
Still, you have to admit the part in Skyward Sword where you have to jump down a ledge designed such that you'll always land on a lillypad causing it to flip over as later in the dungeon, you'll have to do that to solve a puzzle is a million times better than all the other parts where Fi just outright tells you what to do.

>>669263
>Doesn't like old Dante for being too badass
The fucking point of the game is to be CRAZY as shit. Each cutscene that popped up I was anticipating what crazy stunt that white haired faggot was gonna pull off next.

Bayonetta is the same goddamn thing and he only likes her because she's a female Dante.

>>670247
Because you can do more than "just" a game with a video game, just like you can do more than illustrate something with a picture, or to describe something with a book. A book can be a textbook, or a field manual, but it can also be a novel. ANY form of human expression is art, it is as simple as that.

>>670247
>The mechanics are everything.
Replace all the characters and graphics in a game with nondescript hitboxes and blank backgrounds, then you would have a pretty boring ass game.

>Doesn't like old Dante for being too badass

>>670586
>Bayonetta is the same goddamn thing and he only likes her because she's a female Dante.

That's because DANTE THREATENS HIS CHANCES WITH HIS DOMILFNATRIX WIAFU.

>>669278
What you go to a book and a movie for someone else may want in interactive format. Your personal preference does not mean it is unimportant or that everyone should do the same.

>>669304
They could have learned what they needed by pressing buttons too. Pressing random buttons is a great way to learn to play a game, which they ALSO never do. Which is why they dick around for 15 minutes before they realize they can pull a switch or open a gate with the one button they never use.

Expecting a user to try things isn't asking too much.

Kids who got into "retro" gaming because of Egoraptor and/or Jontron are objectively cancer and are killing this board.

Arin's a hack with strong opinions that happened to be right about a game once.

>>670729
How many people do you really think come to /vr/ because of game grumps? Since this is the first or second thread discussing them I've ever seen here, not that many. You can relax, chief. The invisible threat to /vr/ doesn't exist.

>>670741
>How many people do you really think come to /vr/ because of game grumps?
If I had to make a rough estimate, I'd guess anywhere from 20%-25%.

>Since this is the first or second thread discussing them I've ever seen here, not that many.
I have seen several and have only been browsing this board for about a week.

>You can relax, chief. The invisible threat to /vr/ doesn't exist.
>If I can't see it, it doesn't exist.
How do you breathe?

Honestly, I never watched any of his Sequelitis videos after seeing the one for Super Castlevania IV since he's an obnoxious faggot.

>>670759
>>>/v/

>>670759
Since you're new here, allow me to educate you. Threads move a LOT slower here, so no you didn't see "several." You probably saw the same one or two resurface over and over, because a single thread can last a week here.

Complaining about kids taking interest in old games is ignorant. This isn't your private clubhouse. It's when they start ACTING like children that it becomes a problem. Not unlike what you are doing right now. There are probably children more civil than you, and I prefer their company to someone fresh off the /v/ wagon. All boards ARE 18+ though. But unless you can verify that they are NOT that age, you really don't get to claim this is a blight killing the board.

I'm a huge Sequelitis and Game Grumps fan, and this is what I think.

>Simon's Quest
I agree with him 100% here. I think some parts of the game are really enjoyable, but it really is awful.

>Mega Man X
I have mixed feelings about this. I think Mega Man X does do a great job of teaching the player, but I still don't think it's as good as classic megaman in terms of level and boss design. It also has an awful difficulty curve.

>About Super Castlevania IV
Absolutely. There are also other problems with the game he didn't mention, like the awful boss design and poor difficulty curve. Not to mention the clunky jumping(but it isn't as clunky as nesvania)

My issue with the Super Castlevania IV episode is, he's technically right, yet the whole video is just a huge elaboration on something that makes a very minor difference in the game. This is something Egoraptor does on Game Grumps as well, he zooms in on design choices that, while he is right about them, he overemphasizes the effect they have on the overall feel and quality of the game.

>>670961
This is pretty much true, but SCIV has more problems than just the subweapons.

I always thought his Megaman X one was pretty dumb. I mean, if they really put that much effort into teaching the player and he put that much effort into figuring out what tehy did, that's cool and all, but honestly, it's fucking Megaman. It can be figured out in about two seconds by just pressing random buttons, and that was honestly what most of the video amounted to.

The worst part is is how he tries to apply this theory to EVERY game, especially modern ones. I agree that intrusive, impossible to skip tutorials are awful, but he makes it out as if the ONLY way you should teach the player is through gameplay and the environment. Games don't consist of only a few buttons anymore...how the fuck are you going to teach the player a complex button combo through the gameplay or environment? Have a trees shaped like analog sticks wrapping around each other or something?

I think a game like Dark Souls does it right. Totally non-intrusive, optional, simple tutorials in the very beginning and nowhere else.

>>669306
>necessary
>to know how to press START or X, at all, ever

By your logic Super Mario Bros. is a bad game because you can fire it up without reading the manual and never know how to run

Him and Jon took a shit all over the Genesis in the Aladdin video because the controller apparently hurt their fingers.

>>671216
This is another thing that really bothered me. The Genesis Aladdin is superior to the SNES version in so many ways and they didn't acknowledge it.

>>671242
A lot of people on /v/ think this also. That a generic, sub-par Mario like platformer is better than something imperfect but with originality.

>>671216
They're both enormous Super Nintendo fanboys. They know next to nothing about the Genesis, and they bash it at just about every time they play it.

For example, Jon is stated repeatedly how the Genesis has awful sound and that every game sounds like farts...apparently he's only played sports games and other games with GEMs on it, or so I'm led to assume.

I mean, I know it comes down to preference, but they honestly know nothing about it other than that it was the SNES's competitor and they don't like it as a result.

>>671261
Jon has*

>>671242
>>671258
>>671261
What really bothered me was there are legitimate problems the Genesis Aladdin has they barely touched on. I was expecting them to bring up the platforming which is complete ass because you have to land dead center or else you float through but they only mention it for like a second.

He's right about sub weapons being a lot less useful in Super Castlevania 4 but it's still a very fun game and in my opinion the differences between that and the original game a much like the differences between Resident Evil 1 and 4.

The older game is based more on the horror stuff and making you feel powerless while the sequel empowers the play a lot more and makes for a more action packed experience allowing you much better control (okay you still turned like a tank in resi 4 but aiming changed everything) the latter in each case was also brought on by the hardware becoming more advanced and allowing for much fast gameplay while the originals were very limited by their systems and by how little there was to go on designing for them.

>>671261
That genuinely irritated me. I quite like the show but for them to be so jaded about the Genesis was fucking stupid, games made for the genesis used the style of sound to its advantage, Contra Hard Corps and Streets of Rage 2 come to mind for very Genesis sounding games that sounded fucking great

>>671367
jon has probably only played emulators which do make genesis sound awful.

Ego seems cool, if a bit egotistical at times (basically telling people they're wrong for liking certain games like SA2). Jon seems like a chill motherfucker who would be fun to hang out with. But I just don't like them together. But I just don't like Grumps. It's clearly the "friends playing games at each other's houses" feel they're going for, but it's not the way I would play games with friends so they just come off like they're acting pretty stupidly. I understand why people like Grumps, it just isn't for me.

>>671563
I used to like Jon. But for the past month or so every game they play on Grumps that isn't totally mainstream and generic, Jon says it sucks and wants to turn it off after 20 minutes. At least Egoraptor values a unique experience.

>>671586
Well I haven't watched Grumps in a long time. I just saw some of their stuff and decided I didn't like it. That being said I'm a huge fan of both of their solo material.

>>671563
>Ego seems cool, if a bit egotistical at times
HUH, I WONDER WHY?

>>671242
Worse than that, the superior features they DOWNPLAY. Arin actually utters "it has better animation, but I'm not sure that's a GOOD thing."

How could that conceivably be a bad thing?

>>672204
Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but it could be interpreted as it simply having more frames of animation which doesn't necessarily mean the animation is better.

>>672243
It DOES have more frames of animation. But how is that in any way a bad thing? I'm sorry, it just isn't bad no matter how you spin it.

That's just the spite of a Nintendo fanboy being worn on his sleeve.

Eh, I do agree with his good game design theory from the Mega Man X video, but otherwise it's really just nitpicking. Saying Castlevania IV is an "ungraceful sequel" is not that great of an argument, look at how different Fallout 3 is to Fallout 1 and 2. It's still a game that stays true to the Fallout universe and tries something new.

As for his other opinions, I'm kinda torn. His "modern games fps" rants and "game sequel 2 3 4 5 are all the same game" arguments are probably the most ignorant views on gaming I've ever heard.

>>672285
It's funny because I normally disagree strongly with Egoraptor but I thought he was right on the mark when he talked about how all modern games are generic fps or uncharted clones.

>>672285
>Fallout 3
>true to the Fallout universe
Oh... oh god... I don't think my heart can take it.

I'm going to tell myself you meant New Vegas and try and continue living.

>>672316
That's hardly an unpopular opinion. Lots of cynics claim that. It's only partially true of course. Triple-A trends that way, but it's hardly ALL modern games.

>>668635
>"Saving Zelda" way of thinking.

Care to explain?

>>672285
The guy seems to have a super rigid definition of how a game should play like, and whenver he plays anything that doesnt fit this definition (nearly everything because he based it on Megaman X) he just shits on it for no reason.

Arin will never do another episode.
Simple as that.

>>672285
Fallout 3, staying true to the fallout universe? Are you serious?

Yeah I'm sure that's why the Brotherhood of Steel are portrayed as good guys and the Enclave portrayed as bad guys, when in the earlier games they were both more resembling neutral-evil dickwads. I'd even go as far as to say that Brotherhood of Steel are larger dicks than the Enclave.

And that's just the first thing that came to mind, plus the largest, since the entire storyline is based on that. You know jack shit.

>>672461

He's built up too much expectations out of it. That's why there's never gonna be a Metal Gear Awesome 3 either

Who cares? The Mega Man one was the only good one, and he basically just copied someone else's opinion on that anyway.

>>670412
I actually thought Pat pulled off a nice conversational tone in that video. Didn't know he had it in him.

Damn shame Matt's still a nasally, argumentative, smug manchild.

>>672483
Organizations can easily change after several years. Hell, you know Fred Phelps? He used to be a civil rights campaigner. Now he's a fucking asshole.

>>669041
>>668568

He's also not trying very hard and is focusing most of his attention on the conversation and making a good show

>>672360
>>672483

Apparently I don't know my Fallout as well as I thought. It was still a decent game though, but that's not retro. Did you guys not like F3? Why?

>>672720

Not any of the posters you were replying to, but if I may...

Not only did it completely disregard Fallout's stated development goal (sticking as closely as possible to pen and paper RPGs) in favor of a dumbed-down, Oblivion-style sandbox-y timesink, it shat all over the previous established lore while barely managing to string together a coherent plot.

yes yes and yes

>>672204
>"it has better animation, but I'm not sure that's a GOOD thing."

Arin started as a newgrounds animator. Do you expect him to know about quality animation?

>Is Arin right about Simon's Quest?

Eh... he does have some points, but I'm honestly torn on this one.

>About Mega Man X?

Yes. In just about everything.

>About Super Castlevania IV?

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, because I never thought Super Castlevania IV was a good game to begin with.

>>672720

its not that i didn't like it. It's that it just isn't as true to the originals as you think it is. Bethesda changed a lot.

>>672594

[citation needed]

Can I ask a seriously legit question?

Look, I'm on the hate bandwagon for Egoraptor but I can't for the life of me figure out why some of you think he's actually trying to legitimately play in those Game Grumps videos. He's not. He's putting on a show.

If I was making a show that was mainly supposed to be focused on bro conversation and random jokes, so people subscribe to my channel and I get more money, then I wouldn't try to actually play. I mean, yeah, a little bit here and there, but its funnier to fail than it is to succeed. is it not?

If you want to see people actually try at video games, there are all kinds of speed runs and shit on youtube. Game Grumps was never about showing off their gaming skills.m

>>672549

Considering PokeAwesome 2 sucked compared to the first, I can't blame him.

But honestly, doing a Metal Gear Awesome 3 based off of Snake Eater should be CAKE for him. There is so much material to work with from Snake Eater I just don't get how a guy that makes a living by making funny cartoons wouldn't see the potential and take it on as a challenge.

>>672893
I wouldn't mind him sucking if he didn't try to be concurrently running a show where he analyzes design choices in games, and derides games unfairly as being "bad" or not doing things right because he wasn't paying attention while "putting on a show."

That's the issue. It's not just what Egoraptor does on Game Grumps, it's how what he claims to do outside of Game Grumps bleeds over.

Plus, and this is just personal preference, it's not entertaining in the least to watch someone struggle to grasp something obvious. It's frustrating. There's a reason you don't want to watch someone play Professor Layton or some shit in realtime.

>>672908
Uh, Metal Gear Awesome 1 and 2 cover the first two thirds of Metal Gear Solid 1. Metal Gear Awesome 3 would cover the last third of MGS1, not MGS3. He never even made it to MGS2.

>>672870
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDZIyXCrY0
Just as an example of someone saying the same shit egoraptor said before he said it. Ego offered nothing new, but people act like he's some goddamn game design guru because of it.

>>672931

Well shit. He should just wrap it up, then skip straight to three then.

>>672893

It's true, that's the only reason I like their vs. episodes where they are actually trying and don't have to skip cutscenes and text. Otherwise, it's obvious when they play single player games.

>>672954
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDZIyXCrY0

I'm familiar with HideoofBeast. His X6 videos are pretty great.

anyway, fair point. Still, Egoraptor did make some other points. And odds are, they reached this conclusion individually. Hell, even I felt the way they did back in 1995 when I first played the game.

>>672646
I think it was Matt I didn't like, then. It was the more nasal one. His voice isn't great anyway but then he started slurring. Horrific to listen to.

People need to get over Alia's calls in Megaman X5, you can just mash Circle and X together and her dialogue skips pretty much instantenously.

I honestly don't think it's that bad.

Anyway, I love his animation but Game Grumps reaches pewdiepie-levels of forced and unfunny.

>>674734
>you can just mash Circle and X

The point is this shouldn't be a thing at all. Just let me press fucking Start (twice maybe like in Twilight Princess) and let me get on with it

>>668634
> He did a bit of a verbal dance this whole bit, but he is right in that the game could have been better built around adjustments made to the jumping and whip.
But they did.

> The Sub-Weapons are rendered moot for the most part and the platforming is pretty easy as a result.
Sub-weapons are sub-weapons. Nothing more.

He bashed the best classic Castlevania (Super Castlevania IV)

His soul will burn in hell.

Also he is a terrible player.

>>674734

As someone who has played through X5 about 40 times now, I can safely say that Alia is the most annoying thing about the game. Not only are you subjected to her advice every time you cross that invisible line, but even if you come back with your other character Alia will STILL talk to you at that very same spot. It really is fucking annoying and makes is a big problem for it.

X6 solved that problem immediately by allowing you to respond to Alia's calls with the select button.

For some reason X8 made it more annoying with "Can you hear me X?" and "Zero, are you reading me?" every time you pass that invisible line as well even though it's still optional

Arin doesn't know shit about Van Halen; therefore, fuck him.

>Goes on about how games should teach you by their design
>He can't get past the clock tower in Castlevania 3

Arin is a fucking idiot

>>675212
>implying Alia's the problem in X8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21DIsRlrHmk

>>668874
Absolutely. The game is completely built around moving through the game as quickly as possible. The ledge-rolls and momentum from rolling through enemies complement the level design perfectly. It hurts watching someone walk through DKC jumping on every enemy.

>>675683
There's so much nuance to DKC that they clearly didn't grasp. Like taking a hammer to a screw.

>>669280
But that's not true at all. I would say that the story of the Harry Potter series is far more interesting than the story of The Old Man and the Sea if you just read a plot summary of each story, yet the latter is a far superior novel.

>>670605
There is nothing wrong with doing more, I already stated that, but they can never supersede game mechanics because good game mechanics equates to a good game.

>>670642
Hence why I said they are all nice additions, I never said there shouldn't be nice graphics, music, sound effects and the sort.

>>675683
So why are there secrets?

>>672381
http://tevisthompson.com/saving-zelda/

>>675683
So hold right and sometimes press jump to win?

>>679886
oh wow
that is some hipster bullshit to the extreme

>neo-zelda is too tedious
>fuckin casuals ruining muh difficult gaemz
>why can't we go back to the good old days of zelda ii (seriously, fucking zelda ii?)
>i'm gonna go play demon's souls

i'm not a huge fan of zelda myself, but what the fuck is this guy smoking

i mean yeah skyward sword was ass, but it doesn't warrant all this retroactive hatred for the franchise

>>679910
>neo-zelda is too tedious
>fuckin casuals ruining muh difficult gaemz

implying this isn't true.

>why can't we go back to the good old days of zelda ii (seriously, fucking zelda ii?)

implying zelda ii isn't fucking fantastic. also, i'm pretty sure he says that first zelda is best zelda.

>i'm gonna go play demon's souls
>retroactive hatred for the franchise

i pretty much lost interest in the series after oot, and i too found in the souls games much of what i used to love in the old zeldas.

that guy is right about everything.

>>679910
I don't agree with all of it, but I think he brings up some really great points. It's an interesting perspective and I think all Zelda fans should give it a read. And Zelda II was a great game.

>>679886
I have to say, he's totally right about modern Zelda, for the most part. You can't really explore freely, since you need specific items to get through specific areas. You can't walk into an area and get totally defeated, making you think "Oh, I guess I have to come back later." Instead there's something in the way that will only let you pass when you're ready.
That being said, I hate how cryptic the first Zelda can be. Hitting a dead end and having to resort to bombing every wall isn't fun or challenging. I remember it being a pain in the ass and a waste of time.
It sounds like he wants modern Zelda to be a bunch of square rooms, and all of them are filled with fast-moving tank-like enemies, and the only way to progress was to hit ordinary, nondescript objects with a limited-use item. Instead of wanting new Zelda games that remind him of the first one, he wants the first one over and over with different dungeons.
Maybe I'm just a casual who needs to play the first Zelda again.

>>668798
fuck, that last statement.