/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6675019
It's a video game, of course they never existed.

>>6675019
yes and yes

>>6675019
The didn't exist before Link arrived, and they stopped existing when he left.

>>6675019
They all died.
The monsters wanted to stop Link because they wanted to exist, even if it was in a dream land, and they failed.

They only ever lived in his head
And they still do
But beating the nightmare meant he could move on with his life instead of being trapped in his dreams

>>6675061
They lived within the universe created by the Windfish god. Their designs sprung from Link's mind when his boat crossed paths with the Windfish. More powerful versions of similar gods, like Ocean King, could allow residents to come and go freely without losing existence.

>>6675019
Here's my interpretation of it:
All the monsters were aspects of the Nightmare, which is a literal nightmare given sentience by the fact that it existed within the mind of a powerful magical creature (the Wind Fish). The Nightmare became a living thing, like a dark spirit, and essentially hijacked the Wind Fish's mind and spread its influence by pulling other dreaming creatures into a shared dreamscape to increase its power and influence.
All the friendly NPCs you meet are either people or animals who became trapped in the Wind Fish's dream by the Nightmare. For example, Marin is actually a seagull dreaming that she's a human girl, and that's why she has inner desires of escaping the island and flying across the sea.
As in real dreams, no one realizes they're dreaming and thus the Nightmare is able to keep everyone subjugated as its power grows, with an ultimate goal of entrapping all conscious creatures in the dream. Most of the people in the dream simply live in fear of the monsters and try to live normal lives in spite of it all, but Link has a courageous and heroic spirit and so sets out to confront the darkness, discovering the Wind Fish's subconscious cries for help that tell Link he's dreaming, which leads him to defeat the Nightmare and wake the Wind Fish to free everyone from the dream. When the Wind Fish wakes, it dispels the Nightmare and allows everyone who was trapped in the shared dream to wake up.
So yes, the evil spirit of the Nightmare dies, but the friendly NPCs are all freed. Had the Nightmare been allowed to continue, everyone trapped in the dream would have remained sleeping until their physical bodies withered and died. Link saved everyone and allowed them to return to reality by waking the Wind Fish.

>>6675019

It's the classic "Please don't wake up, I don't wanna die" - dilemma.
Which in reality is circumventable by as soon as you know you are in a dream you can promise to and then do "save/freeze" the dream to continue it next sleep and so on like on an emulator, so noone has to die and for them it will be like nothing happened while you were awake, which works pretty well, at least in my experience. I've had more than one awesome dream which I continued next night.

>>6675019
Schizo-hallucination-mega-trip!

>>6675019
You got the true ending didn't you? Everyone died except Marin, who was granted her wish to fly to far away places and sing to many people as a seagull.

>it was all a dream!
fucking bullshit writing.

>>6675370
To be fair, the Japanese version tells you it's a dream right in the title.

>>6675019
Wasn't it all a dream? If so, what happens to people in your, or anyone elses, dream

>>6675370
It's more ambiguous than that.
Who was dreaming? Link? the Wind Fish? Both? Was Link dreaming inside the Wind Fish' dream, or the other way around?
Also Marin actually turning into a seagull in the real world tells you it was more than just a mere, normal dream.
Koholint Island might reappear again next time the Wind Fish falls asleep somewhere.

>>6675387
Glitchless: Windfish's dream.
Glitched: Link's dream.

>>6675387
The objective was to wake the wind fish.

>>6675370
But the dream was a real place where Link's mind was stuck and if he never escaped his physical body would eventually die. I feel like calling Link's Awakening "all a dream" is like calling The Matrix "all a dream." The reason people hate a story being "just" a dream is that it removes all the stakes since none of it happened in real life and no one was in danger. But if there's real danger and stakes, then what's the problem?

>>6675387
>>6675406
>most powerful item in the whole game is the BOOMERANG
in Link's dreams.

You collect the Instruments of the Sirens to wake the Wind Fish up, but you never see the Sirens in question. At the same time, Marin's song is what triggers his awakening and at one point she tries doing it herself only for monsters to stop her.

My wild take: Marin is a Siren. The Wind Fish made her as a test for Link by trying to entice him into staying with her in the dream forever, hence why she resembled Zelda as his memory of the princess shaped her into his ideal women. However, she was given just enough of her own will to support Link's own decisions, and in time even she knew the Wind Fish had to awaken so he could live free.

If you talk to her before entering the Egg, she asks Link not to forget her if he ever leaves the island. She knew the dream was nearing its end.

>>6675019
They died but they still exist in Link's memory.

>>6675019
So the Windfish was basically a ripoff of HP Lovecraft's Azathoth?

>>6675615
I only found out about the Boomerang when I replayed the game last year.
Got the game in 1996, never knew about it. Blew my mind.

>>6675745
Azathoth was basically a ripoff of Mana-Yood-Sushai.

>>6675616
>but you never see the Sirens in question
I was about to question about the mermaid you meet, but then I double-checked and Siren refers to bird-women (mermaid is "sirena" in spanish, which confused me). Considering Marin turns into a seagull, you might be onto something there.

>>6675019
They stopped existing, that was supposed to be the reason why the ending was sad. Maron, Talon, everyone poofed out of existence.

>>6675061
>>6675072
So it follow Inception rules?

>>6675370
Idk anon, are you and I and all here around us not one ourselves?

Honestly think LA is one of my favorite LOZ games.

>>6675779
Mana-yood-sushai was basically a ripoff of Kansai shirigatu.

>>6675916
same, maybe my favorite.

>>6675884
Link doesn't have to maintain the illusion, and he doesn't really feel as if he has any control of it. The Windfish is doing all the lifting.

It's a very philosophical game when you see it from the angle of being real in the eye of the beholder.

Here's a really good video on the subject.
https://youtu.be/9kCefVcXc7s

>>6675019
The "originals" exist(ed) somewhere, the Wind Fish didn't 100% invent them, the dream was probably based on some memories it had (with some distortions and merging that happen in dreams).

>>6675387
>Who was dreaming? Link? the Wind Fish?
Laura Palmer
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Spirit-Tracks/Iwata-Asks-Zelda-Handheld-History-/3-Make-All-Characters-Suspicious-Types/3-Make-All-Characters-Suspicious-Types-233845.html

>>6679002
>Laura Palmer
>LP
>Link to the Past
>LP
chinrubemoji.png

>>6679002
>>6679007
tHaT mUsHrOoM yOu LiKe Is GoInG tO cOmE bAcK iN sTyLe

>>6678558
>a really good video of the subject
>some dude preteding to be a girl blabbing
Anon, you had one job.

>>6680029
>being transphobic in 2020
Ayy, should've known it was 1993 in here in more terms than just games.

>>6675019
dreams aren't people. wake up, sheeple! game was one big redpill!

>>6680192
Sure, i don't fear Okamas

>>6675019
The wale doesn't even exist. Link is dying of dehydration out at sea and drank the sea water so he started hallucinating and all. Look at that thing. it's lsd tier

When you die you get a dmt trip.

>>6675370
Seriously though he gets transported by the gods. The gods make those dungeons altered to help him after all. They play a hand. In ages he just teleports randomly.

>>6679002
>>6679182
The owls aren't what they seem

> Link gets knocked out from his ship wreck

> Everything is birthed from the mind of Link in a dream world. It's why Marin looks like Zelda and everything is Hyrule like from monsters to items
> Wart / makes a cameo to hammer down you are in a dream! (SMB2 USA), he is called by his Japanese name Mamu
> Marin wishes to get away from this island and fly away like a bird
> When you beat the game, when Link comes too, you see a Seagull that is the soul of Marin free to fly away.

So technically only Marin got out of that thing..... kinda

>>6679182
holy based

>>6680719
>years later in windwaker you can possess seagulls

Interdasting.

>>6680192
>transphobic
Phobia is a fear of something. I do not fear mentally ill men who dress and prentend to be women. They fear me.

>>6680192
No one is transphobic.

We hate or pity their mentally ill state yes.
We don't agree with their LARPing that they want to make part of our everyday life yes.

But we don't fear them.

>>6680420
>>6680792
>>6680847
You guys sound utterly terrified lmao

>>6680792
This.

>>6680423
>The wale doesn't even exist. Link is dying of dehydration out at sea and drank the sea water so he started hallucinating and all. Look at that thing. it's lsd tier
>When you die you get a dmt trip.
So the second half of Hounds Of Love is the perfect soundtrack to this game?

>>6680847
The reason angry incels like you hate trans people is because, for all their faults, trans people have at least tried and partly succeeded in overcoming the genes they were endowed with at birth, and transforming themselves through personal action. Incels hate this idea because it would mean, if true, that they themselves could one day HAVE S E X by making better choices in their lives. They prefer to believe that life is deterministic because it excuses their own bad choices.

>dilate
okay buddy, keep saying that if it makes you feel better

>I'm not an incel
Statistically, yes you are.

>>6683181
It's because they invade and destroy communities actually

Also incels aren't real. The /r9k/ was though. Lonely robots having attention robbed by fake females was bullshit.

Not that anon by the by.

>>6675019
It's bittersweet ambiguity as >>6675387 explained.

>>6679002
I love this interview and reread it every few years. LA is where the franchise found its soul, for lack of a better phrase. Vastly more important to the series than the outrageously overrated LttP.

>>6683181
No one hates trannies more than TERFs.

>>6675019
Guys, I just want to eat out Link's asshole. Do you think the wind fish can make it happen?

>>6675019
A dream life is still a real life to a dream person in a dream world.

>>6683181
All that wall of text but at the end of the day every tranny's life ends with suicide

>>6675118
Underrated explanation. Link saved everyone from the nightmare so they could resume their normal lives, only cringy edgelords insist that everyone died because they want a fairytale story to have some overly complex, overly dark ethical dilemma for no good reason.

>>6675019
None of them existed except Marin. Link MADE Marin real by mistaking her for Zelda (who is the incarnation of a goddess). It's all there in the secret wind fish dream rules.

>>6675374
So does the English one ;);););););)

>>6680792
>phobic
It's like chemistry, retard. You see trans people and flee

The wind fish is a sperm whale.
all the island residents are sperm.
Marin is the one that got born.

Don't feel guilty for killing trillions of sperm.

>>6675019
Of course they exist. The secret ending proves it.

>>6675387
>Marin actually turning into a seagull in the real world
I'm pretty sure that I literally cried when I saw this.

>>6685417
Whale jizz? But really, imagine the size of a single whale sperm. It's got to be the size of human penis. Imagine choking on a single whale sperm, like a snake forcing its way into your belly. Nutritious, but deadly.

>>6685378
No, the anon engaged. what do you call that?

>>6680192
>>6682705
>>6683181
>>6685378
>>6685378

>>6675370
But it's perfect for a video game about monsters and fairies. kek, what did you expect

>>6675916
It's one of the best for sure. Great puzzles

>>6685201
>only cringy edgelords insist that everyone died
Apparently you never played the game then. The idea of everyone (except Link and Marin) disappearing when the fish wakes up is mentioned about ten different times. You can't seriously claim people who think that's what happened were making up an "overly complex" outcome when it's exactly the outcome the game tells you about. You could claim the game was just using misdirection in having that idea suggested repeatedly but you can't claim it's some weird head canon thing when if anything that's what your interpretation amounts to.

>>6687119
This reads like transformation fetish.

>>6680192
>falling for mass control techniques played out by a shadowy technocratic elite

[MORAL SUBVERSION MEMETIC HYPNOTHERAPY COMPLETE]

[INITIATING XKULTRA PHASE VII.5]

>>6675580
People hate popular shit on 4chins.bunch of fucking hipsters.

>>6675019
Link nearly drowned and had an end-of-life experience. His version of 'seeing the light' and deciding whether or not to move towards it is what the player determines by playing and completing the game. Koholint is a place inside of Link and it is populated by archetypal versions of all the people he had met in his life before he nearly drowned. When Link dies for real he will return there, except Koholint will exist inside of the wind fish, instead of inside of Link himself. The other characters didn't die, they just got paused.

>>6675019
>So did everyone just die?

>>6689041
based take

>>6675019
They were parts of the Wind Fish's personality, ESPECIALLY Marin. Notice how the ballad of the wind fish sounds like a whale singing? And how the Wind Fish has bird wings?