/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6648368
What's that? Care to explain?

garbage disc drive emulator in 2020 with how shitty ps1 games look at native resolution LOL

>>6648412
An ODE is an Optical Disc Emulator, and this is one for the PlayStation. Seems like it would be way better than what PSIO does. Don't know about how well it works or anything though.

Bought a pre-modded PSIO console last year. I've been pretty happy with it, though I understand why people feel the way they do about it.
I'll probably pick one of these up eventually, after people get their hands on it. The PSIO modded console is still useful as it has its disc drive.

>e-celeb shitwars
>>>/v/
post again when you have actual infos about XStation and not just covert advertising

>>6648476
I was gonna ask what the name of that thing was. Thanks.

>>6648476
Voultard is based, you fucking nigger.

>>6648412
It's a faggot shilling

>>6648485
t. Neckless Bob

>>6648368
how does this obvious advertising spam not get deleted? no fucking wonder this board is completely DEAD.

>>6648368
Does it play Vibribbon or Monkey Hero? No. Get that trash outta here

>>6648368
Why would any retard buy this when you can get a PS2 and just fill a pendrive with PS1 games?

>>6648563
because you can't just run psx games off a flash drive on a ps2? not unless you use the popstarter emulator... which has a lot of broken games, there are better emulators for pc's nowadays

>>6648368
Hm.
PS1-disc-assembly has a 4-wire molex-cable for the sled- and spindle-motors (CN701), and a 16-wire ffc for the data-connections (CN702).
http://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm#pinoutsdrvpinouts
But the Xstation has just one 20-wire FFC-connector and no power-connection-plug, unless the Xstation can run with the 3.5V of the data-cable.
so, uh... how? will there be another adapter-board?

>>6648548
don't forget wipeout xl

>>6648638
i'm not familiar with monkey hero, but i'm assuming he's mentioning vibribbon because one of it's features is being able to insert any music cd and the game can generate levels with them
such a thing could be emulated, of course, you will just need to create images of your music cd's as well

>>6648368
Playstation emulation is perfect unless you're borderline autistic or some shit so who cares? Shill thread is so obvious mods *in MvC1 Spiderman voice* <Do your job!>

>>6648878
plenty of games can only be enjoyed soulfully on original hardware.

>>6648426
I think the easiest way to improve any systems default soft- and hardware is by removing the copyright protection. As we know from denuvo that shit eats CPU and RAM

>>6648889
Thanks for your input r*ddit

>>6649115
He just doesnt understand the thrill of booting up a pc, plugging a controller in, sitting at a desk and loadin rom files. True soul. And all this, on a 4k 120hz monitor, with many filters. Why doesnt he just emulate bor. Why doesnt he play the superior arcade ports. Why does he insist on collecting plastic.
t. Gen z emuwarrior.

>>6648889
Oh fuck off with that soul shit

>>6649285
Zoomzooms are the ones who insist on sticking with antiquated measures to "enjoy" video games. Mods, ban this mother fucking NEWFAG now or else....

>>6648426
what's with the hate for the PSIO?

>>6649426
Garbage product with garbage support from a garbage company

>>6649426
Coming from someone who actually does own and regularly use a PSIO, firmware updates can feel a little bit like a gamble at times in the sense that they can often introduce as many bugs as they fix, or occasionally undo previously fixed issues. Doesn't help that the devs can be infuriatingly slow at releasing said firmware updates. If I'm brutally honest, the whole operation of Cybdyn Systems feels a bit mickey mouse for a number of reasons, and personally I just wait to see what the reaction is from the support forums before installing updates.

That being said, the fact that it works as well as it does for the majority of games I've played on it is really impressive, all things considered. I don't really understand why Voultar seems to hate the thing, is it because they're outside of the retro gaming hardware clique or something?

>>6649709
Cybdyn does weird shit. Locking the device to e-mail addresses, acting like absurd cunts about competition and what personally annoys me the most is the fact it's been on the market for so long and still has all these problems. Like why haven't they figured this out yet? Does the approach just have so many hurdles that it's a nightmare to get it all working? I don't get it, and it seems like there's no good reason for it either.

Just look up their reaction to 8bitmods announcing they're doing a PS1 ODE. They banned the guy who mentioned it on their forums and threatened to bring out their "nuclear option" which to me comes off as a product that actually works that's too little too late.

>>6649774
Yeah the ODE announce definitely rang some alarm bells, that and the situation with DCIO which they were claiming was totally awesome despite them never elaborating on what it actually is or why it's better than the competition. They've not said much of it since MODE got announced, which I presume says everything really.

I just wish they'd implement memory card backups, they've been talking about that for like a year now but here we are.

>>6649787
That's what bugs me. They talk a lot but not much seems to happen. My Fenrir on the other hand has gotten about one update each month expanding the feature set, support, and options for the thing. Also the XStation dev has revealed himself and says it will be available soon. My question is, where is that ribbon cable plugged into?
https://twitter.com/_ramapcsx2/status/1288170820876021769
https://twitter.com/_ramapcsx2/status/1288173524364988419

>>6648368
The PSIO would have been perfect if not for that stupid switch board that needs to be soldered.

>>6649331
not him, but are you delusional? gen Z couldn't give less of a fuck about original hardware or retro games in general, they're content playing SNES games on Switch if they bother playing anything made before 2010 in the first place.

>>6648460
>I've been pretty happy with it
keep telling yourself that

>>6648368
One of the few ecelebs that actually delivers and is kinda likable, god speed voultard

>>6649774
>their reaction to 8bitmods
>threatened to bring out their "nuclear option"
intradesting. link or screencaps?

>>6648368
And you don't need to install a fucking modchip to use it

>>6649426
you need to modify the psx motherboard in order to use it

>>6649984

>>6648423
>how shitty ps1 games look at native resolution LOL
They look a lot better at native than at anything else. You're suffering from geek disease

>>6650050
I dont understand why fixing some games breaks others if you're using the real goddamn hardware.

>>6650050
thanks

just skimmed their forums a bit. given the complaints their customers have, they really seem like a shit company.

>>6650086
They havent even explained if the soldered board is needed no matter what or just because of their engineering.

>>6649426
The price. anons are poor and can't afford one. Mine works perfectly fine with no issue. I paid for a pre installed one because fuck wasting time setting things up. I haven't had problems whatsoever and the compatibility boogeyman is a myth, there is only 1 game in the entire ps library that doesn't work and it's some weebshit VN

>>6648635
>Unfortunately, yes. The only way to get low level CD sector data into the system is by replacing the output of the DSP chip. I needed low level to ensure compatibility with all games, but yes, it does require a soldered installation. There was no other way, sorry!
https://twitter.com/_ramapcsx2/status/1288170820876021769

so much for that.

>>6650239
>So there are good news, and bad news :/ No, it cannot support any of the newer PSX revisions. The ODE works by replacing the raw CD sector data between the DSP and ADPCM chips. This is only possible up to and including the PU-18 (SCPH-550x max). Really sorry!
https://twitter.com/_ramapcsx2/status/1288181282359451651
lols
that's fewer models than psio.

>>6648368
>all this work to pirate fifa
my respects, soccerfags

>>6650243
>>6650239
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

>>6650239
So is a plug and play solution just impossible with the PS1?

>>6650194
>and the compatibility boogeyman is a myth, there is only 1 game in the entire ps library that doesn't work and it's some weebshit VN
yeah, no.
https://jira.cybdyn-systems.com.au:2053/browse/CSGC

If I wanted to modchip to play PS1 game is it easier to mod a PS1 or a fat PS2? I have a 30001 model

>>6650239
>CD drive still receiving power and commands even if ODE is active
oh no...

>>6650239
>so much for that.
soldering isn't hard. just grab some broken electronics out of the dumpster to practice on and watch some youtube videos

>>6650496
>soldering isn't hard
all the psio-haters were waiting for xstation because of it allegedly being plug-and-play and not requiring soldering or cutting traces.
psych!

>>6650267
Yeah, it seems today that all you see is violence in movies and sex on TV. But where are those good old-fashioned values on which we used to rely? Lucky there's a family guy! Lucky there's a man who positively can do all the things that make us laugh and cry! He's our family guy!

>>6650287
well, now i'm not buying it

>>6650770
clearly doesn't have problems with games people actually play

>>6650838
The music can sometimes hitch ever so slightly. Boo hoo

I fuckin hate voultar.
Hopeful for a PSIO replacement though.

>>6649426
>>6650046
>you need to modify the psx motherboard in order to use it

yeah pretty much this!!
and only works for psone phat?

>>6650940
just like the device in OPs pic.

>>6650546
>>6650239
soldering =! irreversible damage from cutting traces like the PSIO

I'm fine as long as it only requires soldering with no permanent damage to the board. Even if it does, fuck it at least it's not cybocuck with their broken firmware and DRM. I'll enjoy the ps1 library on original hardware while brainlets complain soldering is anything more than playing with metal glue.

>>6651002
wdym putting a jumper wire to fix a broken trace is not hard

>>6650171
Didn't they try to open a Patreon so people could support development towards a no solder solution?
I may be misremembering the details but it completely blew up in their face

>>6649815
>where is that ribbon cable plugged into
The ODE to motherboard.

>>6651507
Neither is putting tape on a cracked case but it is not an elegant solution.

>>6651957
so we've gone from "it is literally impossible" to "it upsets my precious aesthetics to have jumper wires INSIDE MY CASE WHERE I WILL NEVER SEE THEM"
i can't even see the goalposts from here

>>6650770
Lol that game sucks
>>6650838
Lol 1 tiny pixel rainbow for half a second during a cutscene

Is this the best anti-psio haters can muster? Pathetic

>>6651963
>he doesn't have a transparent case

>>6648368
>"strap-on"

It's "strap-in" you utter faggot.

>>6649426
they entered the ps1 ode meme market years before anyone else and we're supposed to hate them for that. I have a PSIO and it works great. if this turns out to be better, i'll throw my console and psio on ebay and buy this because i have a job with disposable income and a 100 iq. I do get tired of the adolescent twitter shit though. it seems it's the only way developers advertise anymore.

>>6650243
that's laughable. i have like 8 ps1s in a box and maybe one is sub 7XXX

>>6652480
I'm pretty sure the faggot is a literal faggot who literally mean strap-on because he's dickless

>>6650239
>all those shitposters who thought it would be just plug and play and argued with me that it would shit all over PSIO
LOL feels good to be vindicated.

>>6648412
A $3 microcontroller which is soldered onto an almost empty PCB and then sold for over a 100 bucks.

>>6651945
In that picture it seems to go under the motherboard. Looks like he didn't even have the cable plugged in.

>>6652193
>Lol that game sucks
not an argument

>>6651945
>>6648635
>Hey, we're in contact with the ps1digital team and they immediately offered to help, verify the compatibility between the 2 mods, and even design a quick solder board. So yeah, they will work together well :)
https://twitter.com/_ramapcsx2/status/1288247604640350210
>Yep, the modchip functionality is integrated here. This is required to support all consoles regions with all games :) We will have installation guides of course, and it should be pretty straight forward.
https://twitter.com/_ramapcsx2/status/1288267553060671488
that escalated quickly.

>" PSIO - killer "
cringe

>>6652193
i know, i was joking.

>>6648368
seething

>>6648368
anyone tried one of these tiananmen specials?

>>6653504
at that price, with no chance of firmware-updates, you might as well get a legit one tbqh.

This is shit.
P.S. The PSIO is even more shit and every update breaks other games outright, confirmed customers on their own message board will validate this (the mods from there are too busy lying about how great the PSIO is on /vr/ to bother moderating their own board).

>>6653504
>￡90 for a clone
>legit one is ￡83 (150aud) incl. shipping
lol.

>>6653519
>>6653529
thought it was more than that to be honest.
didn't realise aus dollars were so wank.

>>6650851
>graphical
The reading comprehension on this site is abysmal

>>6653526
Cope harder

>>6653219
Yeah, just noticed that. However, the device is receiving power.

>>6653219
>>6653879
qsb

>>6649426
once the GDEMU got cloned everyone collectively shit their pants and tried whatever dumb way to "secure" their product

>firmware updates with drm
>serial numbers linked to email addresses
from what i've heard it's extremely difficult to get the email changed so buying 2nd hand is a gamble

https://twitter.com/cybdynsystems/status/1288285614312284160
Fetch the popcorn, lads, it's on.

>>6654029
>It is, which is why we'll be doing one for the PlayStation 2 afterwards to put an end to the mess of mixing outdated 'HD Loader' programs.
>We have a video of it working, but we will demonstrate it when we are ready, and yes, it boots 'Jackie Chan: Stuntmaster' xD
https://twitter.com/cybdynsystems/status/1288438113388257280
Oh no no no, Xstationbros, we got too cocky.

>>6654029
>>6654034
>muddying the discourse by pretending ODE stands for "optical disc emulator"
jesus fuck no wonder why the majority of people retro/emulation circles are fucking retarded rubes who spout shit like "fpga is different from emulation" and support a company that uses drm'd firmware updates

>>6654034
>100% accuracy with absolute zero soldering. None. 0%. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Truly a plug-and-play device. The only soldering that would be required is for some sort of additional functionality which the consumer would like to add.
https://twitter.com/cybdynsystems/status/1288442992349466624
Oof.

>>6654056
>and support a company that uses drm'd firmware updates
ayyy
>Just a heads up, the ESP32 is not a good MCU. It's insecure and very easily crackable. The last thing we want is the market flooded with Chinese clones of this "X-Station" product and thus confusing buyers in the long run. Lock down your product and secure it before releasing it.
https://twitter.com/cybdynsystems/status/1288327610267627521

>>6649709
>Coming from someone who actually does own and regularly use a PSIO, firmware updates can feel a little bit like a gamble at times in the sense that they can often introduce as many bugs as they fix, or occasionally undo previously fixed issues. Doesn't help that the devs can be infuriatingly slow at releasing said firmware updates. If I'm brutally honest, the whole operation of Cybdyn Systems feels a bit mickey mouse for a number of reasons,

>>6654034
>>6654056
>>6654059
this is a lot of talking shit from a company that hasn't put out a workin product for 2-3years almost now, struggling to get it to render major titles like FF. why would you assume they do it right now?

>>6650770
>>6650838
At this point, why not just emulate it on your pie?

>>6654092
honestly i don't think i'll use anything but my vita at this point. good enough compatibility and portability + great battery life.

>>6654059
Just asking, but we all know what we're getting into when we get the cheap chinese clones, right? They usually run on a lower firmware, may be missing features except the bare minimum and are sometimes unreliable - just from what I've seen and heard from others, they tend to stop working over time.

We've bought things from China knowing this, right?

>>6654075
Wow a post saying 'work is in progress' several years after these issues were identified, I better buy one asap!

>>6654234
This. But unironically.

Man this thread gives me a good laugh. It's always
>Lol you BUY games? I emulate, because it's so much easier!

Then look at the shit in this thread. If i wanna play a game all i have to do is sit down and put the disc in. Maybe not in that order.

>>6654209
no actual L2 & R2 buttons ruins vita for me

>>6654231
what is your point?

>>6654240
Isn't there a grip which adds "triggers" to tap on the rear touchpad?

>>6649285
I'm in my 30s. Even as a kid in the 90s I saw emulation as a miracle and preferred it over hardware whenever possible. Post your failure shelf.

>>6654253
>I’m in my 30s
What do you do for a living?

>>6654246
It's a yes or no question.

>>6654238
Unless you got the games when they weren't memed to death and were pennies on the dollar, or you only care about like 10 games, you spent a potentially life changing amount of money to do that with any game you want. Unless you were born a richfag or you're some sort of self made millionaire, buying all these games is certifiably retarded.

>>6654263
No, original sellers usually don't want their stuff being copied illegally and sold illegally for a fraction of their own product's cost.

>>6654240
you can use the rear touchpad. works well enough.

Oh no the device to play illegal copies was illegally copied

>>6654418
Cops zoomer

Stop buying Chinese copies of master's device please. It's illegal.

really wonder why nobody wants to invest hundreds of hours into creating and supporting a device and doing it for free.

>Q: How will firmware updates be handled?
>A: No registration necessary, unless it gets cloned. No registration necessary for updates. It is transferable, you can also roll back FW if needed.

>No registration necessary, unless it gets cloned.
OH NO NO NO XSTATIONBROS!

Looks ugly.

>Make a $100 purchase to future proof loading games after your disc rot. Soldered pieces. Go through all this effort to keep using your original software.
>Result is less accurate than emulation, which you can hook to a CTR TV with og controllers anyway.

It’s not worth it man. Once it stops reading discs, just let it die in peace.

>>6653092
>Vindicated on an anonymous board with anonymous pisters

>>6653996
Can't the serials be cracked like the old days?

>>6654034
>outdated 'HD Loader' programs.

OPL is regularly updated isn't it? Also, PS2 doesnt even need an ODE. They should do one for GameCube

>>6654840
>OPL is regularly updated isn't it?
not really feature- and bugfixing-wise.
latest updates were just for GUI and updated toolchain
>Also, PS2 doesnt even need an ODE
plenty of games with issues
>They should do one for GameCube
there is one, slowpoke

>>6654828
it's not that kind of serial, of course.

>>6654819
PSIO and ps1 ODE threads are OVERWHELMINGLY filled with butthurt shitposters who love to rag on the psio and cybdyn without actually having used the device. The switchboard install is piss easy, every game I've thrown at it has worked, and the "firmware" process literally took me two minutes to set up. Personally speaking, I don't think I would buy another product from them just based on how unprofessional their behaviour is, but the device is far from the innacurate and unreliable piece of shit that anonymous retards make butthurt threads about.

p.s. Voultard is an egomaniac asshole who needs to keep his mouth shut more than often.

>>6654418
>>6654440
why do people get stuck on this? A real psio is $20 more than a fake one that can't get updated. $20 for free lifetime firmware upgrades is pretty reasonable for an enthusiast product you poor shitworlders

>>6655072
we deserve being given everything for free.

>>6654029
>and so it begins i'm a day late a a year short of being old enough to be here

>>6654942
>plenty of games with issues
Only who uses usb-sticks and can't figure out how to setup Samba.
And HDD master race has no issue at all.

>>6652591
I too shall be doing this

"no"

>>6654523
it absolutely will be cloned because it will be manufactured in China. Just about everything is susceptible to "third shifts" over there.

>>6655028
Its not that soldering is hard. Its that it renders the parallel port design moot. You can't use it across several PS1s unless they're all individually modded. And not having to mod the system is why flashcarts were so popular in the first place.

>>6656328
>And not having to mod the system is why flashcarts were so popular in the first place.
... because they were made for cartridge-based systems. shocking, I know.
if you can make a "flashdisc", you'd be a rich anon.

>>6656526
Retard, flashcart equivalents exist for CD consoles too.

>>6656537
no

>>6648878
>unless you're borderline autistic or some shit
I am borderline autistic, I have OCD and I think the emulation looks pretty good on most games save more graphics hiccups that usually get ironed out pretty quick.

If I had a lot of money to throw around of course I'd use real hardware but I'm poor and having entire libraries on my PC is way too convenient.

>>6654250
It’s like $150 used

I had a code breaker and burned images of games with my parents old Gateway PC back in 2000.

What exactly do these things do different than what I was doing as a young teen 20 years ago?

>>6652480
Half his videos are sexual innuendo and crude humor.
The other half is shitting on bad modders and scraping out hot glue modding.

>>6656682
If the screenshots posted in this thread are any proof, make your games run like shit

>>6656573
cringe

>>6648368
I already have psio, I'll get this for my Psone console

>>6648638
Does that stilll not work, I tried that a couple of years ago but the demo version worked

>>6648563
It feels like the ps2 has a lower framerate when playing ps1 games

>>6648563
Rather buy a psio (and I did) than spend hours ghetto rigging a USB drive and praying for 40% compatibility

>>6654056
"emulating the pits and lands" isn't just doing raw EFM? How the fuck will you do it solderless? Seems like something you'd wait to boast about when you actually have something tangible.

>>6648889
This is a consoomerist cope

>>6649906

>>6654840
>OPL is regularly updated isn't it?
rrv audio is fucked

>>6649285
With my 4k 120hz monitor and the right filters, I can emulate the LCD ibhad in 2007 playing snes games with 2x eagle

>>6648368
FUCKING FINALLY
DOES IT NEED A MOD CHIP?

>>6658206
It is not solder free if that is what you’re asking.

Soldering is one of the easiest tech repairs you can possibly do.

Buy a solder tool (cheap as fuck)
Buy some solder
Look up a 5 minute youtube tutorial and you too can start soldering instantly
(unless you are mentally handicapped, then maybe you shouldnt)

Why is it so fucking hard to design an addon that replaces the laser so it sends the mobo the ISO's 1s and 0s instead of the disc's pits and gaps?
As far as the PS1 is concerned, it would simply think there's a legitimate disc spinning on top of the tray. 100% compatibility too no matter how you put it.

>>6658320
Mind sharing some of your work?

>>6658996
>mind showing me a wire connected to a circuit board with melted metal

Google it

>>6657012
>I'll get this for my Psone console
uhm: >>6650243

>>6657129
>How the fuck will you do it solderless?
maybe by building an actual ODE fully replacing the disc-assembly. there's no other way, really.

>>6658206
can you like read the whole thread before posting?

>>6658995
>Why is it so fucking hard to design an addon that replaces the laser so it sends the mobo the ISO's 1s and 0s instead of the disc's pits and gaps?
because that's LITERALLY not what the disc-assembly is sending, it's sending the raw info from the disc, not just the disc-data (i.e. dreamcast/saturn).
there's reason it's difficult.

>>6657828
Not reto. Selfban

>>6659478
>because that's LITERALLY not what the disc-assembly is sending, it's sending the raw info from the disc, not just the disc-data (i.e. dreamcast/saturn).
what do you mean? an ISO file is a perfect representation of the disc's pits and gaps, with ECC and all. Sure there's the 14bit conversion bullshit but there's no reason it couldn't be done with an FPGA

>>6659515
elaborating on this, if you were a superhuman and looked at the laser of a PSX when the game is running and logged every single pit/gap change to a computer as 1s and 0s, then did the 14=>8 conversion, you would end up with a perfect representation of an ISO image (ok, maybe without the header, but still)

there's zero reason this couldn't be done backwards

>>6659515
the data-connection between the disc-assembly and the board on the ps1 is not just some "simple" data protocol like IDE or something, but something much more low-level and custom. just check the disc-datalines, what they do and where they lead to.
http://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm#cdrominternalinfoonpsxcdromcontroller
http://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm#pinoutsdrvpinouts
http://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm#pinoutshc05pinouts

>>6659530
>there's zero reason this couldn't be done backwards
but it's a whole different ballgame compared to other consoles.

>>6659578
ah, that's right. Yeah, I guess the easiest way to go about it is making some kind of a chip that translates the cd drive commands to essentially "where to start reading the ISO now" but even that seems hacky
It's an interesting problem really. Maybe a cycle accurate MC68HC05 emulator wouldn't be THAT hard to do for a competent programmer but it's still a lot of work.
>but it's a whole different ballgame compared to other consoles.
desu i don't know how saturn/dreamcast/other disc based consoles handle this so i can't comment but i suppose you're right

>>6659129
I said YOUR work, dipshit

>>6659628
>desu i don't know how saturn/dreamcast/other disc based consoles handle this so i can't comment but i suppose you're right
dreamcast is using some flavor of IDE/PATA, there's an ide-mod after all.

>>6659669
You keep saying "work" as if its work.
I'm not taking a picture of simple soldering you dumb fucking idiot.

I knew by your post originally that you were so dumb that you think I need to provide you proof that I know how to solder like millions of other people who aren't dumb fucking retards like yourself. Thats why I told you to google it. Because I'm not wasting time taking pictures for you.

You are pathetic, kill yourself.

>>6659478
>it's sending the raw info from the disc, not just the disc-data
Can you explain what the difference is between these two for us tech morons?

>>6660185
You seem just a little insecure over this matter.

Shut up retard.
youtube.com/watch?v=xVm6hTE5npQ

>>6660185
Lol faggot. You can’t solder for shit.

>>6661418
You don’t think the average person can solder? Anon... did you think you were gifted? lol

>>6662326
Not him, I've seen so many self proclaimed "professionals" using hot glue globs and jumper wires all over the place so no, the average guy has no idea what he is doing.

>thread tries to shit on psio
>truth about the new method being 3 times worse is revealed
>thread devolves into shit flinging and pointless challenges
Every time, actually.

>>6663512
I think it's better than psio, plus I enjoy soldering and I imagine this will be pretty easy.

>>6663517
I think I may wait for the ODE from the PSIO guys.

>>6663568
Too many red flags from them for me

>>6648508
What did you say to me punk?

>>6651002
Nigger why are you even into modding if you cant handle modding.