/vr/ - Retro Games

>>652152
Quake and Doom are way more fast paced and shooty than slow paced grandpa speed Half-Life.
Seriously I've had more of an adrenaline rush playing those two than any time playing Half-Life.

>>652152
>improves on every aspect...

Son...7/10 you had me there for a minute

>>652170

Enlighten me, what do Quake / Doom have that Half-Life doesn't?

>>652175
Level design, fast paced action, unrealism.

The real answer is to play Duke Nukem 3D. It really still is one of the most entertaining FPS's around.

Your logic is retarded.

Doom is still a fine game, even though Half-Life exists.
It's completely different, blazing through mazes and shooting demons in the face with a shotgun. That doesn't become obsolete just because some cutscene heavy slow sci-fi shooter exists.

It's not improvement, they're different games and experiences and you should choose what you feel like playing because they're both pretty great.

>>652180

Half-life 1 has great level design, they even found a good way to remove the old key/door system of level progression and replaced it with puzzles that add more depth.

With what >>652159 has said and you about speed. I already know that's their actual speed is faster but what does that really change to the core mechanics of the game?

"Unrealism" is just be a subjective positive point

>>652196

The grammar errors are from halfway editing the post. Sorry.

>>652175

Sonic speed.

Really, it just takes a different kind of skill to skate around at 130mph while shooting rockets at pin-point accuracy.

>>652196

It's like you are asking what is the difference between a bicycle race and motorcycle race. More speed, more skill, more danger.

Because they are a different feel of FPS. Doom is about going around the levels and shooting a TON of guys up, more so than just puzzles. It relies much more on action which I find as a good thing.

>puzzles in HL1
Yeah, push that obviously moveable crate here and jump on it...

HL1 doesn't have mazes for levels - just straightforward corridors, is slower paced, has a different arsenal (IMO better, but the other points of the game are worse), doesn't have the tedious "story" bits that make the gameplay drag on...

>>652541
*does have the tedious story bits, it's Quake and Doom that don't

>>652152
Doom's gameplay not aged really well to be honest and you have to feel and like the game to actually enjoy it. I do

Quake, however, still plays and feels great today. You may think otherwise just looking at the screens, but trust me, start the game on hard, play through first few levels and you won't be able to end till you finish the game.

Try also (in that order)
>DN3D
>Blood
>Heretic/Hexen

>>652556
not aged = did not age; sorry about that

>>652556
I completely disagree and have no idea why you would think that honestly.
Doom hasn't aged a single bit.
It's still one of the most fun shooters, very playable also because of its simplicity.

>>652556
>forgetting about Shadow Warrior

>>652569
Well, it's its simplicity that makes it age (note did not age really well =/= aged badly). Have you tried replaying Wolf3D recently? Play it today and you'll see my point.

>>652189
cutscene heavy
Confirmed for never having played the game.

Your argument is incredibly stupid, OP. So SMB isn't worth playing because SMB 3 improves on every aspect?
Even disregarding that Half-Life and Doom are very different genres of FPS, both are worth playing unless you want to restrict yourself to a couple of games. It's not like they're long, too - I might have understood if we're talking about rpgs, but these are shooters you can pick up any time.

Is there somewhere to download bots for Quake? I remember one I used was a couple ninjas or some shit. They'd run all over slaughtering everything.

>>652541
This, it's the same for HL2 as well. I hate it when people say that one of the positives for HL2 was the puzzles it had when every puzzle in the game was "move this to here." Hell some of them were literally nothing more than "get to here and push this" like the washing machine to lower the bridge when you're in the boat thing. Yes it may have shown good physics but they can barely be called puzzles, never mind good ones.

>>652556
What's wrong with Doom? The only thing I don't like if I'm to play it completely vanilla is the keyboard only controls. Everything else is brilliant.

>>652575
The jump from Doom to Quake is hardly as big as the jump from Wolf3d to Doom, barring graphics.

half life plays completely different to quake and doom. unreal or seirous sam is more like what you described

>>652175
non linear level design
dodge based gameplay

>>652585
SMB1 is better than SMB3. SMB3 is full of pointless gimmicks and low challenge.

Best SMB is actually Vs. Super Mario Bros.

>>652719
>>652729
Well, I guess it lacks variety and that level design that Quake has, but that's just me. Also I don't have a problem with playing doom, I actually complete it every once in a while. I can understand people that never played it and can't get into it though and that's my main point.

>>652751
doom 1 levels certianly lack variety but i have to disagree with you if you think doom 2 levels are not varied

>>652757
I don't. I thought we're talking about quake 1 vs doom 1. If not, then it would be something like this:
quake 1>doom 2>doom 1>quake 2

>>652734
Serious Sam plays unlike any other FPS. It's more like a first person version of Robotron than a traditional FPS.

Unreal is just a slightly more casual version of Quake.

>>652779
i was talking about the original unreal not tournament

>>652159
I know what you're saying and I mostly agree, but you should probably check this out if you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTUOn2EUFhk

Half-life is a middle ground between modern cover centric stop and pop shooters and earlier dodge and shoot shooters. Half-Life has you ducking and weaving between cover taking a few sparse shots every now and then in every fight, however in games like DOOM and Quake you rely on your agility and awareness of enemy projectiles to win fights. Combat is more like a dance as opposed to looking at the ugly 32x32 grey concrete texture every few seconds because the hitscan enemies started shooting at you.

Quake is more level design centric than DOOM, more about understanding 3d spaces and working within them to progress, as opposed to just moving forward through linear corridors, levels are complex and maze like, open and often with diverging paths. It also features one of the best levels of all time, Ziggurat Vertigo.

Half-Life stole a lot of Unreal's thunder for its cinematic-like style. Unreal was rather derivative of Quake, it relied a lot on understanding 3D spaces and projectile weapons as opposed to hitscan. The levels were complex, diverging and the AI easily leagues beyond Half-Life's.

>>652819
Not samefeg.

Also you may disagree, but HL is more of an adventure game that it is FPS.

>>652830
Basically.

In my own humble opinion, Quake still has the best theme ever in a game. Nothing kept me more interested in seeing what came next in every level. Not even Doom or any other game floating around nowadays.

>>652854
In all honesty I'd say HL is a 6/10. It's just not really that good, and won over most critics and people with its wow factor related to being so movie-like.

>>652152
>having this shitty mentality

>>652861
I liked HL. I really did. Would I compare it to Quake? Hell no.

HL was an extended movie experience, yes. Doesn't make it bad, but unfortunately it started a trend

knowing that OP is a troll, I consider half life to be everything that went horribly wrong with fps games

story? wtf who asked for a story
its not even a story, its just a less creative version of 'scientists fucked up'
realism
corridor gameplay
enemies always appear with only their own kind
no real variety in enemy behavior
there's no distinct levels so you can't start each level with a pistol for increased difficulty

half life is just a clusterfuck of bad decisions that reduced a game to a mere story

it did well because people don't actually enjoy gaming itself

and then 1000 new versions of it appeared

it is the one game I would remove from history

Doom/Q1 are faster paced and have a grittier/darker+unreal atmosphere to them. Also their level design is better in general. I sometimes replay Q1 and Doom, and although HL1 is good, I never feel like beating it again.

I wonder how no one ever said it, it seems, but Half-Life is one of the most aesthetically and audibly disgusting games games ever made. Blurry ass textures with no definition, terrible audio, STATIC voice over when a few weeks later this debuted with beautiful sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSET0AZfbyE

And in real time it had beautiful sound design still unrivaled. It ran on as many systems, too.

The music in HL is also terrible. But what really sticks with me is how hideous the geometry in the levels are. It's literally all boxy corridors and even, somehow, boxy outdoors. Where levels like The Sunspire in Unreal and Into the Maw of Chaos in Thief were charting unseen level design territory, Half-Life was delving into level design as dated as wolfenstein 3D.

This is almost as retarded as saying that Microsoft Flight Simulator "improves upon every aspect" of Starfox 64 and Ace Combat.

You're completely missing the point and comparing two different gameplay styles. It's readily apparent you don't know jack shit about how Quake and Doom work. Like people told you -- they're fast arcade shooters that require constant mobility and dodging projectiles. Meanwhile, Half Life is about hitscan weapons and popping in and out of cover.

Quake and Doom had great level design. It was designed basically like a side-scrolling platformer, only 3D. Look at Commander Keen games and you'll understand the philosophy is really not much different. Your surroundings were there to augment gameplay and that was the entirety of their purpose.

Half Life on the other hand was based on atmosphere and immersion. Gameplay was designed to augment this rather than stand on it's own. Level design was fantastic, but it relied on realism and the feeling of being a lost rat in a huge, believable facility. Sure, it wasn't meant to be literally realistic, they just took from realism what they wanted -- the grittiness and relatively plausible environment design. A lot of areas were quite "objectively" boring and that's probably the biggest stroke of genius Half Life achieved and I haven't seen it done right since -- making boring vent crawls suspenseful. When shit went down, it went down hard and you were *glad* for the boring moments of crawling through Black Mesa's bowels. They managed to impress yet make it feel like the game is not trying to impress you at all. Half Life 2 had a thorough shit on this design philosophy and only EP2 managed to repeat some of Half Life's greatness.

>>652906
>It's literally all boxy corridors and even, somehow, boxy outdoors.

Try do something different in hammer editor. :D

>>652917
that wasn't so hard

I replayed Doom like 10 times over the years.
Half-Life not once.

improved upon every aspect, right.

Oh yeah. Let's not forget why HL became /the/ thing.

>CounterStrike

>>652906
>I wonder how no one ever said it, it seems, but Half-Life is one of the most aesthetically and audibly disgusting games games ever made

Not to mention SiN which was released later the same year, and was superior to HL in every way.

>>652924
Butt still, these are simple shapes and it's a pain in the ass to manage them on a large scale.

>>652934

this game had things like interactive command prompts for computers in 1998 and still people praise HL over it.

You should play them for the experience, maybe even understand, why a lot of people still love them. The very least you should gain from this, is a proper impression from the games on which you can have an actual opinion. Half-life can be considered a good successor to them when it comes to FPS in general, but it is still a vastly different game from Doom or Quake.

tl;dr: make your own opinion.

>>652830
I agree with all of this and yet I still love Half-Life as much or more than those other games. It was a very creative game that put the player in the shoes of someone who wasn't a soldier or space marine.

>>652901
>enemies always appear with only their own kind
Damn, never even thought about that, but now that I think about it that does happen often.
Anyway, I don't see a reason to hate HL for the story and realism. They were both toned down compared to later games and made the game more immersive without getting in the way of the action that much (unlike HL2 where you would get locked in a room and awkwardly listen to the other characters talk about the plot every now and then).

>>652938
It's not too tough with proper map optimization. There's also advanced shapes like toruses which you can do some really clever things with.

Half-Life is simply aesthetic vomit.

>>652946
I love it too, but it's sad how all its shortcomings are overlooked. People should recognize more games of the era.

>>652938
That's the same with any BSP based game.

>>652953
You can do some wonderful things with a bit of love and care.

I personally find the blocky BSP aesthetic to be wonderful, if handled properly. I love the way games like Thief and Quake and Unreal look, for example.

>>652576
But HL2 IS cutscene heavy (especially compared to DOOM). It's just that you can move around during them.

>>652960
hl1 isn't cutscene heavy, but valve's trademarks walk'n'listens are still in there. just not nearly at the volume as in hl2.

>>652957
Oh yeah you can get some incredible stuff, but it's still mostly putting blocky shapes together to make something truly brilliant. I'm glad we've moved on to static meshes though because it makes life so much simpler than trying to get some complex piece of geometry done in a map without it causing bugs like HOM effects on the other side of the map amongst other things.

>>652830
saved for future generations.

weird how viggurat vertigo is a secret level

>>652960
I still don't understand why people praise the HL series for having no cutscenes. I understand it helps keep character but it could be done a lot better than having these 5 minute sections where people just talk to forward the story whilst leaving you nothing to do. I find the system of System Shock, Unreal, Blood Omen etc. where you can hear people talking whilst you get to continue your game to be so much better.

>>652962
>hl1 isn't cutscene heavy

Ah fuck, I misread the OP and thought we were talking about HL2 instead of 1. The fake cutscenes are still there, but they're not as bad as in 2.

>>652934
>>652937

SiN wasn't that good

>>652906
Well shoot me for this if you must, but I honestly believe that despite all of its actual faults, HL1 has some of the most memorable sound library in all of gaming history. Few games have guns and explosions that sound as powerful and "snappy" as HL1 does.

>>652974
My post really wasn't that good, I really kinda rambled at the end without a smooth transition into how I'd like to represent Unreal as the ideal Quake 2 which is a better game for Quake fans than HL ended up being. (and quake 2 for that matter).

although, what we really need is a shooter with trap laden levels. There hasn't been one in a long time. Romero was on to something brilliant when he said good level design is about never letting the player feel safe.

>>652990

What did it do worse than HL1 though?

I guess it didn't lock you into rooms listening to some poorly written scientist ramble on.

I know it did a lot of things better.

>>652989
>The fake cutscenes are still there
Yes. At that scripted event where you get knocked out by random soldiers I just fucking dropped it and never looked back. What a terrible way to design a game.

>>652952
>Half-Life is simply aesthetic vomit.

Half Life is SUPPOSED to be aesthetic vomit. It just is. Nothing is stylized. Even the color palette is strictly realistic with no intentional focus on any one particular color. That's precisely why I love it. Half Life 2's faults are many and one of them is too much stylization in certain areas like that utter stupidity that is Ravenholm.

>>653059
You know, the fact that it's supposed to look like shit doesn't make it any better.

>>652992

Absolutely agreed. The shotgun's secondary is a fucking explosion. That wasn't enough though so they changed the sound in the enhanced version and made it sound like a nuclear bomb. Love it. Compared to games like Babbyfield 3 and Kawa Doody and their pussy sounds, these weapons sounded incredibly powerful.

>>653103
Soldier of Fortune has an even more powerful sounding shotgun, it's almost comical how loud it is.
http://youtu.be/J1leRZfJko8?t=51s

>>653071

Why do I love it then?

It's not a pretty game. It's not supposed to be pretty. You're comparing to Thief, a grimdark, exaggerated, almost horror vibe. SiN, a cheesy sci-fi romp. Half Life's "crime" is just going for realism without any exaggeration in any field. I say it succeeded. The game is dry and just *is*. Many games tried to do this, but Half Life had a snappy engine on it's side so the game didn't feel floaty and soft like -- say -- Rainbow Six. Half Life is just grit and ugliness and that's how it's supposed to be.

>>653137
I feel like half-life's aesthetics are confused, more than anything. The later texture work on xen is reminiscent of HR geiger at some points, but otherwise looks like a browner/greener earth texture pallet. Coupled with the more often than not ridiculous animations, especially facial animations? I think Max Payne and Soldier of Fortune pulled off that realistic aesthetic better.

>>653137
I'm not that guy. I'm just pointing out that an argument based on what someones intention was (which you often can't even discern without resorting to mind reading) has no bearing on the quality of the product.

>>653156
in addition, I feel like a lot of valve's texture assets were aimed at being flexible. They didn't want to use specific textures so much as it'd limit the kinds of environments they could create and still present feasibly.

>>653127

Oh I know, I finished that game at least 5 times. But like you said, it's comical. The entire game is, really. You laugh at that shotgun. You get traumatized by Half Life's shotgun. Especially the SPAS in the enhanced version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_N7-FVDOHc&t=10m49s

>>653156
>I think Max Payne and Soldier of Fortune pulled off that realistic aesthetic better.

While they're beautiful games, I don't think they were really realistic. They're both too glossy and sleek with exaggerated light effects.

>>653160

See, I can discern their intention because Half Life 2 followed in the same footsteps and retained Half Life 1's aesthetics. At least partly, they really fucked it up at certain parts by exaggerating too much.

It's not a coincidence though, that both games went for strict realism.

>>653156

>HL1 facial animation

>>652934
I would play if this game and it's expansion pack wasn't hard as hell to find.

>>653218

I wasn't aware it is hard to find. That is sad to hear.

Maybe I could upload it for you? What is a good and low hassle upload service these days?

>>652934
SIN is decent, but I would never ever claim it was superior to Half-Life. In ANY way. Except maybe the option of branching paths.

Everything from the gunplay to the story felt much more clumsy than HL.

>>652773
Doom 2 is way inferior to 1.
Anyone who disagrees needs to replay the second half of the game and try to tell me those levels are really inspired.

>>653241

I'd claim it is superior in graphics at least. Also level design: there is just so much interactivity in the levels. It was really one of the few games that could translate Build-style level design to true 3D. They do suffer a bit from being hard to navigate at times (switch / key hunts) but they make up for it in being open ended.

>>653261
It did have some nice level aesthetics, I will grant you that.

>>653257
Second half? Try mentioning the middle of the game instead, and I'll agree with you.

>>653218

Hope you still around anon?

I'm uploading it right now.

Half-Life nearly killed the first person shooter genre for me. With the very notable exception of Q3A, I cannot name a single shooter that I loved that came out after it.

>>653497
How is it the fault of the game that no other good games came out after it?

The genre would have shifted whether Half-Life led the way or not.

>>653497
Really?

UT2K4 was the height of what a multiplayer shooter could deliver for me. The amount of amazing mods and full games that came out ofo UT2k4 is amazing.

>>653071
It really doesn't look like shit. I remember finally popping a Voodoo 2 into my store bought p.o.s. and experiencing true joy leaving software mode behind. Half-Life looked quite nice.

>>652152
Because it's a fun game and if you like videogames, and first person shooters, you should want to play fun ones.

What kind of stupid fucking question is this?

>>652159
I'm pretty sure Grodorn Freamen has exactly the same running speed as Quakeguy. It's damn close in any event. Quake is fast by modern standards but not Doom fast.

>>652573
Shadow Warrior is balls and I'm going to be raging hardcore over the next few months while everyone pretends it was some forgotten masterpiece just because it's getting a reboot

Yeah, it has neat features but it's a pretty sub-par Build game, significantly inferior to Blood and Douk

>>652834
>HL is more of an adventure game that it is FPS

sorry dude, but genre are about mechanics, not your feelings

you are categorically wrong

>>652861
Bullshit. Yeah, the scripted events did win a lot of people over, but HL has plenty going for it. The soldier AI was rightly praised, the levels felt like a real place (comparatively) that was contiguous rather than "levels," and there was a great sense of progression and adventure in general.

>>652934
>this other game from the same time was OBVIOUSLY superior in every way but is overlooked

I think we all know what this kind of attitude means. Hipster detected. Enjoy your loading times.

>>652906
>Half-Life is one of the most aesthetically and audibly disgusting games games ever made

lol, yeah, because that's not a fucking stupid exaggeration or anything.

>>652906
I like how you used the Sunspire when that level is boxy as fuck.

>>653009
But it's not a "way to design a game". It's one thing that happens.

>>652934
>Not to mention SiN which was released later the same year, and was superior to HL in every way.
No. You've got nostalgia goggles on. Go back and play that shit. I own both of them, and have played both of them. HL1 is better than sin.

>>656991
Nonsense. It may not be Duke, but if roflstomps the shitpile that is Blood.

you should go fuck yourself and die

it's a fucking experience, if you don't want to have one, then don't, instead go fuck yourself
when you decide to grow up, you'll realise that it doesn't mind if the game is old or outdated, every game is an experience.

is it bad? i'll play it and see for myself
is it good? i'll play it and enjoy myself

is it good anon? go fuck yourself

don't play those games, they are not for you

>>659731
You ok man? You sure?

You're kinda flipping out at no one is all. Just saying.

>>659745
buhuhuhu
should i play something that is easily found for free?
should i listen to this music that everyone is talking about?
should i watch godfather?

no, instead you should go on the internet and talk about it

>>659765
Exactly. I see you made the same choice.It's nice to meet someone of a similar mindset. My name is Anon, it's nice to meet you. Let's always be the very best of friends.

>half-life improves on quake/doom
Yeah, because turning a fun, fast-paced shooter into a linear follow-the-corridors snorefest to get from one set of cheapass enemies to the next is such an improvement.

I will never, ever see what people saw in HL unless it was just the nostalgia factor of My First FPS. It's the PC equivalent of Halo.

>>659817
> Suggesting Halo is not a great game

But back on topic: I do agree that half life does nothing to improve on quake

>>659817
>I will never, ever see what people saw in HL unless it was just the nostalgia factor of My First FPS.
Lots of interesting mods and fan content in general.

>>660061
But Anon, fans are the worst part of half life.

>>652152
Half life tries to be more cinematic and slower paced whilst Doom & Quake are all about action and slaughter

>>659817
it's the scripting, really. Half Life was the first FPS to have that much ambient shit going on in the levels so it felt more like a little world than just a .wad or what have you. It defined the modern "cinematic" gaming style.

>>660073
Today, yes although HL2 fucking sucks too. Not in the times of HL1 though.

>the only zombie mod you need tier
They Hunger
>god tier
Cry of Fear
Half-Quake Sunrise
>that fucking heli on hard tier
Paranoia
>great tier
Point of View
Azure Sheep
G-man Invasion
Afraid of Monsters DC
Half-Life: Decay
>wait what what tier
Ispitatel: 4 Classic
>bro tier
Sven Co-op
>pretty good tier
Half-Quake Amen
>ok tier
Life's End
Deliverance
Heart of Evil NE
Afraid of Monsters
Flat-Life
Mistake
Half-Quake
>iranian detainee tier
Escape from Womera
Prisoner
>czech tier
Dead Sector
Force of Evil
Blbej Den
>talking gordon freeman tier
Todesangst 2
>meh tier
Scientist Hunt
The Dark Secret
>bad tier
They Hunger with HD patch
>space-buddhists-against-hitler bad tier
Buddhist Wars
Sector 6

>Freeman tier
Bill Freeman (X.E.T.)
Jordan Freeman (Timefall)

>>660114
What about USS Darkstar?

>>660119
It was ok, I guess. Got lost halfway through and dropped it, though.

>>660119
Not him, but I'd rank it from OK to pretty good. Felt like a nice showcase of level design, but nothing mind blowing.

>>660189
I made darkstar. What could have been improved?

>>660237
It's been a long time, I'll admit. I can't really leave you with specific criticisms beyond general feelings I had while playing. It did feel quite solid, mind you.

>>653009
You forgot the beginning where I wait 10 MINUTES to get control and another 5 running around doing inane shit until I actually get to start killing things. And even then it's melee.

>>660114
>great
>Decay

>>660114
>god tier
>jump scares: the game

>>660357
It's called building atmosphere. And you never have to sit through it ever again thanks to chapter select. I don't see what the problem is.

In fact, I wish MORE games did that kind of setting the scene instead of throwing you into a PEW PEW gunfight with no gravitas.

>>660372
The only downside was the tedious dragging of a second player along if you're playing solo. Otherwise it was pretty enjoyable.

>>660559

This.

Lay the fuck off "hardcores". I've been playing Doom and Quake while you were in your diapers. I'd rape your corpse in a duel. Yet I'm still able to appreciate story driven games, including shooters.

You're not impressing anyone.

>>660559
You can set atmosphere without spending 15 minutes to do it. If they would have made the tram ride half the time and cut out having to go get your HEV suit, it still would've been the same game.

>>660583
>hardcores
Yes, because anyone who wants to start playing right away is a "hardcore". Because you can't have a story unless you sit around twiddling your thumbs and doing inane crap. Because System Shock, Deus Ex, and (for a more recent example) Spec Ops: The Line never existed...

>>660595
>You can set atmosphere without spending 15 minutes to do it.
No you really can not. Not the same kind of atmosphere, and certainly not the kind of weight of the setting that lets the tragedy of the accident sink in. If you ran around a destroyed facility before seeing it functioning and intact, where is the gravity of it?

Also, what is your hurry? Are you ADHD or something? Sitting through that tram the first time was jaw dropping. I understand if you only played this game for the first time last year, but in context it was amazing.

And I'll have to repeat myself. You only have to do it ONCE. EVER. Chapter select lets you skip past it every subsequent playthrough. So yeah, 15 minutes is nothing.

>>660609
I'm confused, are you saying Deus Ex was better for NOT having you twiddle your thumbs? For the record, the statue of liberty stage was AWFUL. I would gladly take a scenic tour over that mess of a level.

>>652175
Fun.

>>660618
>implying I didn't like HL
>Not the same kind of atmosphere, and certainly not the kind of weight of the setting that lets the tragedy of the accident sink in.
No, that "weight" came through during my trip through the facility after the resonance cascade. I understand spending time seeing the facility beforehand, but you make it seem like you should've had a whole work day before this happens. Games shouldn't be movies. You have JRPGs with 10-20 minute FMV/cutscenes. I just want to play the damn game. I appreciate a good story, but you can tell me while I'm mowing down vortigaunts.

>If you ran around a destroyed facility before seeing it functioning and intact, where is the gravity of it?
Questions would be going through my head such as: What happened? Why is this place in shambles? Who's responsible? Starting after the fact just makes me want to know why. Starting beforehand makes me want to know what.

>Also, what is your hurry? Are you ADHD or something?
Here come the insults...No, I did not play this game just last year. Yes, the first time was interesting. After that it's old and boring. And there was no chapter select that I ever saw or found.

>So yeah, 15 minutes is nothing.
Apparently you never had parents that limited the amount of time you spent playing vidya...

>>660626
>I'm confused, are you saying Deus Ex was better for NOT having you twiddle your thumbs?
No. Deus Ex was better for not having me spend my time waiting to do something while it supplies backstory.

>>660670
Then you and I thoroughly disagree on the matter. The intro level was garbage. And any manner of intro other than that would have been superior.

It's not just me either. You'll hear of people being bored to tears by the first level all the time. Constantly reassuring people on /v/ it gets better is one of the more common ways Deus Ex threads start.

>>660667
I stand corrected. I just booted it up and I guess there is not a chapter select. I must have been thinking of HL2.

Quake>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HL1

>>660687
It's not like I didn't like HL. I did. But OP's question is splitting apples and oranges.

>>660684
I wasn't talking about level design. I was talking about the integration of story into the gameplay. Although I do agree the first level's pacing is slower than molasses running uphill.

>>660667
>but you can tell me while I'm mowing down vortigaunts.
I'm not sure how, frankly. People aren't that receptive to backstory when they're fighting for their lives. And there aren't many instances of games trying to tell you what's going on simultaneously. That I can think of.

>>660695
Yeah, I'm not standing by his statements. I'm a fan of both kinds. I adore Doom and Quake 1.

>>660703
Well alright. Perhaps it was just in execution. I'm sure it's not evidence of the entire formula being bad.

>>660670
>Deus Ex
Reinstalling

>Half-Life already exists
>improves upon every aspect

Yet somehow it lost "fun" in the equation.

I loved Doom, Quake, and Half-Life. They're all under the same umbrella of FPS games but each is slightly different in its own way. Doom and Quake are Action/Horror FPS while Half-Life is more Action/Adventure/Sci-fi FPS. They are similar to each other in some ways but still distinctly different. It'd be like comparing Citizen Kane and Casablanca. Both are good but in their own different genres.

>>661152
Why bother, it's going to be just as bad the first time you played it.

>>662474
I know OP set a bad mood for the thread, but there's no call for things we can't take back.

what's the most convenient way to play DN3D these days?

>>652152
Quake is pretty much as pure as an FPS can get. The control, precision, feel and movement in the game is so incredibly tight. The gunplay, map design and enemy encounters are as solid as you can get.

Get a decent port like dark places or DirectQ. Go to quaddicted.com. Download quake injector. This in an aggregator tool that gives you the entire user made map archive for Quake.

Pretty much every single 5* rated map/episode is absolutely worth playing and almost all of the 5* rated maps (don't bother with anything less) is better designed, better looking and more polished (not to mention often many times larger in scope) than those in the original game.

Not only is the content of exceptional quality, but it is also vast. There are probably in the region of 500 maps that are rated 5* and I would consider better than anything in the original (I can't imagine the reception the original would have had if 30 of the best maps from this archive were organised episodically and released instead of the original).

I'm currently working through the entire set of these 5* rated maps/episodes on nightmare. I am amazed and thrilled at the sheer professional quality and pacing of these maps. I thoroughly recommend anyone who loves Quake to give them a look.

>>652152
>However, I see no good reason to when a game like Half-Life already exists which takes its game design from predecessors like Doom Quake and improves upon every aspect..

Let me try to explain this to you as clearly as I can:

You are cancer. Kill yourself and make the world a better place.

Half-life is a tumor for the FPS genre that made people associate "cinematic gameplay experiences" with FPS games. Half-life kickstarted the trend of moving the player in what is essentially a straight line and tricking them into thinking they aren't walking down a corridor with scripted events and scenery changes. Physics puzzles an 8 year-old can solve in seconds don't belong in any video game, it's fucking insulting to present that garbage to an adult as an obstacle.

All the praise for Half-life has absolutely nothing with it being a good game, people like Half-life for it's non-game features.

half-life does not improve on pure fps gameplay from quake. nothing does

>>663572
>Half-life is a tumor for the FPS genre that made people associate "cinematic gameplay experiences" with FPS games.

Please let this half-boiled argument die

It literally never existed, nobody EVER said this, until /v/ 2012

The game you are looking for is CoD 4

>>663580
Actually the game I'm looking for is Jurassic Park: Trespasser if we're talking about shitty physics puzzles in games. But for "cinematic gameplay experiences" you can't find an FPS that popularized it before Half-life did.

I started playing Quake 1 single player because of this thread, no savestates. I cleared episode 1 on hard without much difficulty. Is it normal to lose all your weapons when you die?

I'm not particularly impressed. With the exception of the rocket launcher (and the lightning gun which I haven't got yet) all the weapons feel very weak. I hate the way that shooting a common enemy at point blank range with the super shotgun doesn't one hit kill them.

The enemies are all slow and bad at aiming too. You only die because they teleport in behind you or pop out from secret closets. There's no real incentive to actually fight, you can just run past everything.

>>664784
>Is it normal to lose all your weapons when you die?
Yes.
And episode 1 is easy. Wait until you encounter these motherfuckers.

>>664784
>all the weapons feel very weak
You aren't supposed to feel like a badass in the game. Not without really earning it. The monsters are strong. And if you think you can run past all the enemies, keep playing. You're going to regret that eventually.

>on a retro games board
>ask why you should play older games
good one OP

>told a story while also having plenty of doom-style running and gunning
>had actual good voice acting in 1996
>completely ignored because everyone was too busy jerking off to Quake's low-poly 3D grafics
T-thanks, bye!

>>665216
Here's another suffering from those symptoms (but replace Quake with Doom).

>Look at you, hacker...

>>665268
And something with decent (if early) 3d polys, a decent (if cheesy) storyline, and better power armor than any Starship Troopers incarnation besides the book.
>Same company, even more ignored

>>662474
I enjoyed Deus Ex. What can I say? I like to think when playing.

>>665216
Duke 3d came out at roughly the same time; maybe it didn't have the 3d graphics, but people were still ignoring Strife due to it. (Similar behavior, too!)

>>665268
At least Doom was actually aesthetically pleasing. Even my 6-year-old self knew that Quake was ugly. But hey, who cares about how it actually looks? It's THREE DIMENSIONAL!

>>659725
>Blood
>bad
Bitch, you best be joking.

>>665298
Quake had a few elements of novelty to it, but it still screams 'TECHDEMO!' to me. OTOH, it had more variety in it than most modern games, and one of the best closet monster scares ever. (E1M2; if you've played it, you know what I mean).

>>665298
>Quake
>Ugly
Someone didn't have a 3DFX card. Must have sucked to be the poor kid.

>>665325
>Quake
>3DFX
Some of us remember a time before GL minidrivers.

>>665325
Does having a different graphics card change the vast majority of the levels being sickeningly brown? Does it make the enemies not look like (poorly) animated turds?

>>665323
I actually had to boot up Quake and go to that level before I realized what you were talking about. It's odd, because it hasn't been that long since I played Quake, but I guess when the first three or four levels of Episode 1 all look nearly identical they sort of blend together when trying to remember just one of them.

>>665343
>vast majority of the levels being sickeningly brown?
Only played the shareware episode, eh? Again, must have sucked pretty hard to be the poor kid.

>>665360
Yeah, it must've sucked to mess the sickeningly green levels.

>>665298
>6-year-old self
Opinion: Discarded.

If you weren't around to get properly involved in the Quake community back in the day I'll be damned if I'm going to give any weight to your opinion. I'll take it for exactly what it is: Hindsight and revisionist history.

>>665360
>you didn't throw money at something you didn't like so you must be poor
Actually, I was so turned off by the shareware maps that I didn't even want to see the rest of them. Having played the whole game recently, there's still more brown maps than anything else, and the ones that aren't totally brown happen to be fairly dark so you can't really appreciate the colors anyway. There's nothing really bright and colorful, like, say, E3M6 of Doom.

>>665403
>Hindsight and revisionist history.
Might as well be the title of the board 99% of the time.

>>665408
E3M6 looks like ass, though.

>>665408
Just pointing out that offering up opinions-as-fact on a game you barely scratched the surface of is utterly worthless.

Why is /vr/ responding to an obvious troll thread?

>>665323
Even better when you first go back on hard/nightmare and think you know what's coming only to have two more of the fuckers spawn in and leap at you.

Always fun to get revenge for that scare when you learn to expect them and go for a cheeky telefrag.

>>665323
Need a video, I dont remember anything?

>>665429
Because it became a discussion of old shooters instead. Everybody is bickering

>>659725

>>665413
None of the vanilla levels are especially pretty. That was just the most colorful vanilla map that came to mind. User-made maps ended up being much prettier once people learned the tools.

Also, the enemy cast being almost entirely brown doesn't really help Quake's case. Not counting Cthon because he only shows up at the end of Episode 1 and isn't an enemy so much as a turret to keep you from standing in place, there's only two enemies that aren't brown - the shambler and the spawn. Both are higher-tier monsters and don't see common usage.

>>665450
The fiend that's all locked up near the end of the map. It is a pretty good reveal, if a little disappointing if you grabbed the quad damage right outside that room.

>>665450
Sorry, but no vidya recording abilities. (Short description: Ooh, button- look at the fancy floating boxesAARGWTFWTFdies)

>>665482
I said "video", not "description."

>>665485
>lolsorandumb!!! xD

Take that shit to /v/.

>>665489
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb0TUC-O4pY#t=305s

>>665507
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb0TUC-O4pY#t=305s
>OH GOD A DOOR OPENED AND AN ENEMY POPPED OUT

>THIS IS WHAT I CALL A SCARE

Did you have an aneurysm halfway through doom?

>ctrl+f "rocket jumping"
>0 results
It's like you guys aren't even trying.

>>652152
>Can anyone give me a reason?
i want to meet your friend, he sounds way cooler than you

>>665521
I never called it a scare. I just said it was a good reveal, since until then you'd just been facing grunts, dogs, and ogres, none of which were particularly threatening. The fiend is fast, deadly, and doesn't die in four double-barrel shotgun blasts.

>>665543


>>665323
>one of the best closet monster scares ever.

Dont you fucking lie to me boy.

>fast, deadly, doesnt die

oh, so you have no skill? shame

>>665547
That wasn't me. >>665482 was.

>>665547
>oh, so you have no skill? shame
Assuming that it was one's first time playing, they wouldn't exactly have a lot of time to become a pro speedrunner before they reached the end of E1M2.

>>665469
>there's only two enemies that aren't brown - the shambler and the spawn. Both are higher-tier monsters and don't see common usage.
What the actual fuck? Did play the game? Fiends are pink, scrags are white, knights are red and grey, rotfish are orange, vores pretty much share the shambler palette and fire crazy purple shit, death knights are silver-grey, grunts are largely flesh-tone and blood splatter... They're not exactly a rainbow parade because the game was never going for that, but still: Wat?

As far as brown goes It's pretty much just ogres and rotties.

>>665531
It's implied, the same way bunny-hopping is implied and rocket jumping would be far less interesting and effective without combining it with bunny-hopping.

>>665570
This. But people who weren't there 'back in the day' and are weighing up Quake retroactively can be forgiven for not getting it.

Given that a good bulk of players were coming to Quake playing keyboard-only that first fiend and its leaping could be a very nasty surprise. It's only really people migrating from the competitive Doom deathmatch scene that were used to mouse turning in a fast paced FPS, and even then throwing in real verticality was a big deal.

Even with Quake 'real' free mouse-looking rather than hitting a modifier key to peer around was a console option. (+mlook)

>>665547
I didn't have skill when I first met the thing. Not even +mlook!

>>665679
I first met that fiend using keyboard controls and I immediately knew what >>665323 was talking about. But it seems kind of pathetic with WASD + mouselook, even with its friends teleporting in on hard.

>>665679
I think it can be summed up like this:

>People will be more biased towards the technological advancements that they were raised with.

>>665763
>People will be more biased towards the technological advancements that they were raised with

Because I really yearn to relive dial-up Internet and shit VHS tapes

Moron.

>>665797
I meant that in a vidya aspect.

>Moron.
Nice shit-flinging. I'm sure >>>/v/ misses you.

>>665797
You forgot headache-inducing CRTs that weigh 500 pounds

>>665763
I'd disagree. People seem to be more biased towards new technological advancements, because they're new and for no other reason.
It's better because it's new, even it produces worse results.

>>665643
>Fiends are pink
Maybe I'm actually just colorblind but they look pretty damn brown to me.
>Scrags are white
There's some brown in there, particularly on their back, which you see a lot of since they drop so easily.
>Knights are red and grey
So they are. They're still very dull and don't stick out very well.
>Rotfish are orange
Maybe that would be easier to see if there wasn't a constant light-brown filter whenever you had the displeasure of seeing them.
>Vores share the shambler palette
They're not totally brown but it's definitely there. Look at the legs especially.
>Death knights are silver-grey
There's some rust on that armor.
>grunts are largely flesh-tone and blood splatter
Which doesn't do much to make them look not-brown.

Maybe it's an exaggeration, but it's still not a very colorful roster, and it certainly doesn't help with the "lol quake is brown" joke.

While we're on the subject I might as well ask if there's a better port than WinQuake if all I want are original graphics and nothing extra. I notice that WinQuake likes to throw graphical tantrums, which, while they do make the game more colorful, isn't very appealing, and it also doesn't seem to support widescreen resolutions.

>>665813
>I meant that in a vidya aspect

I think I've played a lot more 8/16-bit games than 5th gen or whatever else was around when I was a kid because frankly, those bore me.

>>665813
A lot of games from when you were a kid have aged too badly to still be fun

>>665763
>>665813
Extreme nostalgiafags are cancer

>>665763
It's more that going backward to old games with modern eyes can make it difficult to share the same experience people had back in the day. It's hard to really 'get' the leap that Quake represented if you've grown up with WASD and freelook being a set in stone standard.

I'm not biased toward it because god knows I wouldn't want to go back to keyboard controls. I just happened to be around at the time something of a paradigm shift happened.

Just did a bit of poking about in my DOSbox install and the only documentation of +mlook was stashed away in the techinfo.txt file and only dealt with binding it to a key. No mention of just throwing the command into the console and having it be an always-on thing. Finding that out was a real "Holy shit..." moment. Cue a few games spent running around crashing in to things. I'd imagine most people only discovered it after getting destroyed in a deathmatch or finding a config tweaking guide somewhere.

>>660583
Neither are you.

>>665927
Or internet play with servers and master servers, remember master servers the thing that almost everything uses these days that Quake started. Yeah...

>>664803
I'm playing episode 2 now, and I died on E2M4 and I got to keep all my weapons this time. I have no idea what's going on. I'm using EZQuake if that matters.

>>668662
You're playing with quakeworld not netquake, so yeah that can make a difference.

>>669256
Yeah so, normal quake and darkplaces, if you die you restart the level with what you started the level with.

>>669256
>>669273
I figured it out. I'd used the save game option at the start of a level and immediately quit when I took a break (I don't count this as using savestates, because I could have just left it paused). When I loaded again, EZQuake counted that as starting a level with nothing. You're not supposed to lose everything, so I was actually playing at harder difficulty than hard.

QW physics seems to mostly affect trickjumping and the single player isn't designed for that so I don't think it matters.

>>669468
>QW physics seems to mostly affect trickjumping and the single player isn't designed for that so I don't think it matters.
It's designed to be played and trick jumping is playing it. More than that though is that it improves the movement and also the amount of rocket kick as well. Quakeworld let's you bunnyhop and that's where Quake gets good, even on single player. You don't have to speed run shit, but you don't have to not use all the abilities that make quake great good.

>>652957

christ what map is that? looks like sen's fortress from dark souls.

>>673778
Reminds me of Q3DM15.

>>652152

Yeah, why would you do that? Why would you listen to Bach before Mahler? Or Tchaikovsky before Stravinsky? Or The Velvet Underground before Jon Cage?

Why would you ever want to be aware of the roots of something you enjoy? I totally understand braheem.

>>673484
>Quakeworld let's you bunnyhop and that's where Quake gets good

I'm very reluctant to learn bunnyhopping because I already know Quake 3 strafe-jumping and I don't want to harm my skills there.

>>652152
They're insane speedy fun that you can pump hour after hour into without getting bored in the slightest. Doom in particular is just a huge amount of fun.

>>652159
Half-Life is exactly the same speed as Quake. Faster even, since there's a lot more flat, open areas to bunnyhop across.

>>652152
Curious, what's your guys' opinion of TFC?

>>675947

Great game that was sadly abandoned in favor of a crappy sequel.

>>675947
One of my favorite multiplayer games of all time.

I still enjoy TF2 but it lost so much to become what it is.

>>660684
>The intro level was garbage.
I liked it. A lot.

>>675947
tfc was the place I always went to when I got fed up with what was going on in the cs community back when that was still taking shape.

I miss that community and I don't believe tf2 is a good sequel.

>>675986
This. Quake-TF was great. TF2 is a gigantic dog turd left rotting in the sun with a jug of milk and a bag of hot garbage. The newest iteration with all the items hats and free to play shit blows ass too (yeah, I was talking about the very first release)

Fuck that god awful game and it's shitsucking scum eating fans. What a fucking insult to Quake and Quake-TF

>>677257
Overreacting more than a little.

TF2 is a solid, fun game, it just shed too many layers for the sake of ironing out balance. You can still argue it has terrible class balance, but it's a lot better than TFC's in that regard.

>>677743
And it completely lacks any element of speed, impact, good aesthetics, and jumping.

>>677861
I'm certain 3 of your complaints are due to the lack of bhopping. In a team game, bhopping is just plain broken. You should need your team to accomplish goals, not breaking the physics to do everything yourself. It's TEAM Fortress, not solo flying medic fortress.

And for aesthetics, that's purely opinion bro. I like the semi-cartoony nature. Although the people running around with neon colored hats tend to ruin the original feel.

>>677743
>TF2 is a solid, fun game,
No it's not, and even you have trouble defending it and recognize that it has balance issues. Worse is that game has fucking horrible hit registration. As well steamroll benefits. There's a lot of things wrong with it.
It's not a terrible looking game, but graphics don't make the game good, solid or fun. And the problems are so great that it's actually not fun because of them. And this was before any of the item trading or hats shit kicked in. Not that hats are really an issue, the item trading and variance does cause balance problems and in some cases clear advantages.

>but it's a lot better than TFC's in that regard.
Not so much, no. Not that TFC was all that great either. TF was pretty broken too.
TF has always had issues depending on the version.

>>652152
I have yet to see an fps that trumps doom in level design, pacing and overall balance. Plus, you can't beat the active community churning out years of content in mods.

>>675842
>I'm very reluctant to learn bunnyhopping because I already know Quake 3 strafe-jumping and I don't want to harm my skills there.
It won't. Pretend you're playing Quake 3, start your first jump just like quake strafe jumping, because that's how you start bunnyhops, or with circle strafe jumping. Then after your first one, don't hold forward. You're mouse does everything and should move very very similar to quake 3 full beat strafing at high speed. You pull your mouse in a bit more, you can get fancy and do figure eight bunnyhops if you want to build up speed in a small area if you need, but rarely nessecary and a good rocket jump will get you on your way.
If anything, learning to play quakeworld will help your Q3 game as you get used to the faster play, Q3 will start to feel slower for it. Not slow enough to be boring. But with the weapon switch speed and absurd speed, your reaction should carry over and improve in Q3.

Unless you're working half beat strafe jumps in Q3, which I know few people who actively employ them. If you actively avoid full beat so you can keep a feel for half beats, then yeah quakeworld would require you to use adjust to the opposite.

Beyond that, their movements aren't too dissimilar, except you can air control around corners instead of having to ground and use friction to turn corners in Q3. Some mods use Quakeworld style movement like CPMA, if you've played CPMA, it's pretty much identical for movement.

>>679319
Yes, all Team Fortresses had balance issues. But that's why the context of how it stacks up to those is so important.

The game is not all around broken, it just needs some tweaks. All in all, TF2 is far better about keeping all the classes relevant than previous TF's. And that's gotta count for something.

Remember Pyros in TFC? Of course not, nobody had a reason to play as them. Demos either, short of placing a detpack and then changing class.

And the introduction of fall-off damage has done wonders to counter spam. Still exists, but far less easy for a soldier to launch rockets across a map and still score kills.

>>679328
Doom has good arcadey level design that keeps the pace high, but I would never for a moment claim it has the best of any FPS.

>>679367
>But that's why the context of how it stacks up to those is so important.
Only when comparing how awful they are to eachother.
It does nothing for reviewing itself. Taken all on it's own, TF2 is fucking terrible. No need to discuss any other game.
>And that's gotta count for something.
It would if it were really true. When it's not really. Different, yes, relevant not so much.

>>679396
So you're saying all Team Fortresses suck?

Opinion invalidated.

>>679402
You're saying you're disregarding valid discussion points because you're a faggot?

Opinion invalidated

>>679442
Your "valid discussion points" are "TF2 sucks and so does all TF."

Good job being contrarian, you brought so much to the discussion.

>>679463
Try reading the thread again dipshit.

>>679492
I've addressed specific posts. When someone gives up their argument and claims the entire series sucks, you are no longer relevant to the topic. Dipshit.

>>679507
>hur dur I love game so I not pay attention to criticicisms in game. Derp.
Fuck off shitposting troll.