/vr/ - Retro Games

Left looks too narrow, right looks too wide.
It doesn't look like neither on my CRT.

Every stage is fun to start on except Launch Octopus.
That's all I wanted to say.

>>6641539
I 100% agree with you

>>6641494
>Which do you prefer?
I couldn't care less. I put the cartridge in my super nintendo and turn it on. Whatever it outputs onto my crt is correct.

>>6641494
the pupils of the mammoth are wrong in the wide version

>>6641494
I see you putting the labels on backwards.

>>6641689
the lettering looks wrong too in the wide version. The G in STAGE and MA of MAP and ROCKMAN all look bad in wide version

Developers objectively intended for them to be displayed on 4:3 consumer televisions. It’s not open for debate.

>>6641713
true. 4:3 is wider than 8:7

This is what it looks like on real hardware.

this is better than the 4:3 picture in OPs image. This is 4:3

>>6641759
what kind of hardware is that supposed to be?

>>6641868
The Super Nintendo.

>>6641862
OP ran the image at 3x magnification + aspect correction, which throws off the aspect ratio more than native res on CRT or blowing up on even multipliers.

>>6641494
16:9

lol boomer lol

>>6641494
8:7 cause every dev besides nintendo accounted for the weird PAR

>>6641874
yeah, that's not the display. A supernintendo looks the same as an emulator if the screen is the same.

>>6641539
Chill penguin for easy modo
Only real men start with launch octopus first

>>6641759
Looks like 4:3 and looks like you are just a nitpicking shit eater.

>>6642028
fucking lol

>>6642042
>>6641759
the display makes the difference, not the system hardware

>>6642072
yes, mr. holmes we all know different displays can make a different display, what a ravaging conclusion. now go test out the image using all 9 different models of the officially released super nintendo. take a read here while you're at it since you seemed to have saved the lorem ipsum of crt vs lcd images.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/04/how-snes-emulators-got-a-few-pixels-from-complete-perfection/3/
>"I-its the same thing!!"
right-o. cheerio

>>6641494
Retarded OP reversed the numbers
8:7 is supposed to be narrower

>>6641874
based retard

>>6641494
8:7 is retarded. There were never any 8:7 TV sets.

>>6642010
So 4:3, you numbskull.

>>6642229
read the discussion he is replying to before acting all high and mighty mister

>>6642003
>crack
>sip
Megaman X. Now that was a helluva game.

>>6641715
Exactly. Its like people playing Capcom arcade games in that native mega wide aspect ratio where everyone in Street Fighter II looks like a fatass despite every arcade cabinet being fitted with normal 4:3 monitors.

>>6642229
Are you the same autist who keeps posting that article without acknowledging what it says? Byuu's autistic ass managed to get almost everything correct, to the point where the visual output is 1:1 with only a handful of exceptions.

>>6641539
>>6642030
This is why I prefer X2. X1 has weird difficulty balance and going out of the "right" order is damn near a challenge mode.

>>6642262
> A supernintendo looks the same as an emulator if the screen is the same.
you okay retard?

>>6642274
Most of the stages are plenty easy even if you ignore Icy Penguino. It's the bosses that are a pain. Sting Chameleon and Launch Octopus in particular are motherfuckers without upgrades, although Sting is fun and Launch is annoying. Boomer, Storm and Flame are the best starting points aside from Guido.

But yes, Chill Penguin makes the game easy and Launch Octopus is a motherfucker, game just isn't balanced well at all despite the great level design and weapons.

>incorrect emulator aspect vs incorrect emulator aspect

>>6641759 is correct. (Most) emus don't account for the black borders that frame the image on real hardware.

>>6642301
Storm Eagle is a bitch without boots though. He's not hard but he takes forever.

>>6642301
Try flame mammoth bootless, and enjoy the real flame mammootherino in all its painful glory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7iBzOzRoOk

>>6642338
I did the entire game without boots, Launch Octopus is by far the worst. Flame's mid tier at best.

>>6642279
He never said that
He was arguing that different monitors will lead to vastly different results even if you use the same console
>What hardware is that?
>Hurr durr the Super Nintendo
You have proven yourself too dumb to be posting that Ars Technica article here, I doubt you are capable of understanding it.

>>6641494
4:3, 8:7 looks like genesis games so it looks ugly by default

>>6641494
depends on the game, some games were designed with TV screen proportions in mind (i.e. SNES Earthworm Jim sprite in the second game)

Mega Man looks better at 8:7 because it looks too stretched at 4:3

>>6642693
They're all "designed with 4:3 in mind" though. Yes sometimes circles become slightly oblong but during development they were looking at the games on normal 4:3 screens so they knew what they were putting out.

>>6642706
Depends on the dev. Some were legitimately just incompetent.

is there a list of games that look correct at 8:7?

Isn't it completely dependent on the game? The morphball in Metroid and Super Metroid are spheres in 8:7 but stretched in 4:3 for example, while the moon in Chrono Trigger is squished in 8:7 but spherical in 4:3

It seems like most first party Nintendo games were designed around 8:7

>>6642838
They drew circles that look oblong on a TV but the devs were still viewing the game on a TV during development. They never intended anyone to play in 8:7. It wasn't even possible to do that before emulation.

>>6642857
The packaging itself shows 4:3. This is how its meant to look.

>>6642857
>>6642860
But what about overscan? Are the games designed around the full display being visible on screen, or drawn with the idea that consumer TV's would cut of a % of the display (thereby technically being larger than 4:3?)

This whole thing seems like a nightmare to account for

>>6642873
They accounted for overscan by not putting anything critical at the very edges. If you were playing on some old hand me down from 1980 the overscan might be pretty bad compared to a brand new trinitron from 1993 but they just made sure lifebars and shit would be visible no matter what and didn't think too hard beyond that.

>>6642873
>>6642857

The truth is devs did whatever. I'm sure some cared, but others just drew their art on grid paper and called it a day. There's no catch all answer. Either way, consumers viewed all of these games in 4:3 at the time, whether intentional or not

https://youtu.be/LHfPA4n0TRo

This video is a good breakdown of the resolution shenanigans back in the day.

>>6641494
Fuck Nintendo for cheaping out on hardware.
It should have ran at 320x224 like Mega Drive so we wouldn't have this stupid issue.

FUCK NINTENDO. Fuck Nintendo.

>>6641689
You mislabeled this you faggot
The left one is 8:7 here

>>6641862
Looks garbage and too wide

>>6642316
It still looks too wide. Most devs didn't give a fuck and didn't account for the stretch, it's plain as day.

>>6642706
>They're all "designed with 4:3 in mind" though.
Few of them actually are.
99% of SNES games looked stretched as fuck as a result.

>>6642838
>while the moon in Chrono Trigger is squished in 8:7 but spherical in 4:3
Yet the pendulum at the beginning is a perfect circle in 8:7 but looks too wide in 4:3

>>6642857
>the devs were still viewing the game on a TV during development.
They were viewing the game on a high end CRT monitors and doing sprites on them as well on high end PC's.
Most of them got lazy and didn't account for the stretch. It's plain obvious.

>>6642918
this is interesting, because this means pixel perfect didn't existed in later pixel games. Rendering more pixel than can be display on a screen that doesn't display pixel anyway makes for a nice "magical" effect.
Single frames stop to look the same all the time. Which is good when they are repeated many times, like walking or standing animations. I noticed this when rendering flash vector animations to low res.
Some indie devs want to go for pixel perfect, but that's a mistake for 16bit games imho.
Pic unrelated

>>6641759
it is
4:3.1368421052631578947368421052632

>>6641759
>>6641862
it's odd how different the two images look when they pretty much have the same aspect ration, I wonder why that is.
Maybe the 0.1X difference in height makes is that much? I will test that

>>6641862
that's not 4:3. Made a mistake, because the input image wasn't 4:3... stupid

this is now real 4:3

and this is 4:3.1313

>>6644160
in conclusion 4:3.1313 looks best I think

>>6641494
just tested snes9x with the aspect ration 4:3.1313 and it does look exceptionally good. I think this is it for most cases. It looks truly better than 4:3

I tested DKC and MegaManX with that setting and both look better than in 4:3. Can recomment. See the screenshot to see what the config looks like for 4:3.1313 setting

>>6644271
you're cracking me up anon, a shitpost in one thread, a helpful post in another. What's your angle?

>>6644272
its what anons do. That's how we improve

>>6644281
do you really believe that?

>>6644284
I believe a lot of things

>>6644295
list them

>>6644284
more important question, anyone else try the 4:3.1313 aspect ratio? Can someone else confirm? I tested first level of MegaManX, noticeable are the big bipedal Rocket/Plasma Robots look better. And tested DKC Poison Pond, DonkeyKong himself and the spiked wheels looks better

>>6644306
yeah it looks great, you should do it anon, pull the dang trigger already, what are you waiting for?

Correct answer: 8/7 for anything that didn't account for the par-dar discrepancy, 4/3 for those who did. How can you tell? By geometrical shapes, typeface, character sprites.

integer scale pixels manually stretched to a 1280x960 window with no black bars

no shimmering while scrolling and no uneven pixels on life bar during gameplay

>>6644423
4:3

X2 > X1
Too much of X1 had to be balanced around not having the dash.

>>6643883
And what aspect ratio were those TVs and monitors? Regardless of whether it looks "good", 4:3 is what they knew we would be looking at.

>>6641494
8:7 for emulation
4:3 for real console on a crt

>>6644157
Too wide

>>6644160
Seems perfect

>>6644309
How about you do that instead you massive faggot?

I suppose it would depend on the game? I prefer wider aspect ratios but I'm willing to use shorter ones if it looks too stretched out.

>>6641494
16:9. It looks best on my big screen TV. I don't like black bars.

>>6641494
I remember my TV from back in the day, Nintendo and others knew about the screens and created the games in narrow mode to be look at what is now known as 8:7. Authentic is right.

>>6643860
Stupid whining over something in the past.

>>6646639
>>6641494
Or get HD plug modded

>>6644271
>>6644306
Care to share a few pics?
I am so sick of faggots claiming SNES hardware output was 4:3.
It clearly fucking wasn't, it was narrower than that as these pics demonstrate
>>6641759
>>6644160

It's just like the whole refresh rate bullshit with people being fixated on round numbers like "60hz" when in reality most retro systems ran either slightly below or above that.
And yes that fucking matters a lot.

>>6644423
Looks too wide and shitty
Anon already figured out the real ratio here >>6644160

>>6646639
It is not 4:3 on real hardware
It is 4:3.1313

see
>>6641759
>>6644157
>>6644160

>>6646980
Ok then, that for a CRT.

>>6646980
what you're talking about is NTSC aspect ratio. there is no "real hardware" decimal aspect ratio.

the pixels are being stretched regardless and they are meant to be stretched onto a fixed 4:3 display at multiples of 240p resolution. this means your h-size will always vary depending on what CRT, BVM, PVM, VGA you have and who calibrated the h-size. for the purposes of video capture your decimal gets thrown in the trash.

>real hardware this and that.
what is real hardware??

>>6647840
yeah, I get what you are saying. But when emulating and you set the aspect ration to 4:3.1313 the proportions of elements in the games do look best. I can't deny that. Even if it's wrong the aesthetics of multiple snes games I've tested look best in that aspect ration.

games were so much harder when I was a kid. Because tvs had ghosting and warping.
The video signal here has some warping too.

>>6647997
yeah. but that's mostly a problem of flat crt. when they have a very bright image.

white on the borders can make things stretch or expand to some degree.

in any case that warping makes almost no difference at all.

no idea about ghosting.

what does a difference with filters is the correct handling of aspect ratios. especially with fames that change resolution all the time

>>6648017
Not sure if I had flat CRTs when I was younger, or if that even bothered me at all. But currently the warping on my flat Trinitrons drives me crazy. It doesn't do anything gameplay-wise but its annoying as fuck.

>>6647997
>tvs had ghosting
this is a bad connection
>warping
this mostly only happens on Sony and flat CRT's

There are always exceptions, but I doubt the vast majority of 8/16 games use anamorphic corrections in their physics

>>6641494
4:3
Anything else would be ridiculous

>>6648380
>warping
i thought that is not the tv but the video signal. Because it's analog I thought I thought it has to do with the quality of the signal

>>6648380
>>tvs had ghosting
>this is a bad connection
What do you mean by this? The ghosting I am talking about is because of the slow fall-off of the phosphor. You can see extreme cases for example on Radar screens, where they use a extremely long glowing phosphor mix. Crts with extremly short glowing phosphor mixes are newer technology

>>6648049
You can use a remote to enter the service menu and attempt to fix it. It takes a while to get it just right though.

>>6648017
well I have been playing Castlevania4 today, and because of the CRT I didn't see small things and enemies colored like the background in time. On a LCD I never had that problem.

Here some enemies I ran into because I didn't see:
-the guy behind the wall, of which you only see the hand popup, that comes up and clubs you when you pass him
-frogs
-birds on some backgrounds
-one of those cave armadillos got stuck in the floor and I didn't notice him

All of them were not invisible. They were just very hard to see, thanks to the CRT. I also lose track of bullets in Axelay because of warping and lack of detail contrast by the CRT.

>>6647997
If a CRT TV has ghosting then there is something seriously wrong with its components.

Modern technology solved the problem
There's no reason today not to play it stretched to 16:9 and enjoy your screen to the fullest

>>6649437
I bet you get a few other things stretched in your freetime as well.

Compromise and use 69 : 56

26:21

>>6644296
I want to believe

Depends on the display. If the display benefits the game being native resolution, like on the 3DS, then I prefer pixel-perfect 8:7. Otherwise I go with 4:3.

>>6641494
Just do it 1:1 no need to divide anything up
imo at most you should do 50/50 to keep it fair

>>6642693
Jim's idle pose in 2 looks kinda bad and too scrawny either way.

>>6642264

Standards and specifications exist, even for analog video. On a correctly calibrated 4:3 TV, the aspect ratio of the 256x224 active area of the SNES should be exactly 64:49.

https://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=Dot_clock_rates

>>6656907
>64:49

4:3.0625 ...practically 4:3

>>6644423
What blur filter is this?

>>6647997
>>6648837
no.

>>6659443
whats the id-number of that TV? is That a sony triniton?

>>6659443
hahaha, who would use a crt to play snes games? All sony trinitons I've seen looked like shit, because they are too sharp, sterile and flickering. You can see the pixels too much, feels like playing on an emulator without filter. It's like playing console games back then on a PC screen. Nobody wanted that. The games just looked better on the blurry TV screen.
That's why emulation with CRT filters looks so awesome. The sony monitors are just bad for emulation of old games.
The only good thing is the refresh rate, and in the end it's the same refresh rate of a LCD, 60hz, but with flickering. And it probably is brighter than an LCD.
I prefer real TVs over Trinitons which I feel are like PC like screens for console games. And I prefer filter over the hassle of using a CRT...

>>6656907
It's just confusing to talk about the aspect of the video frame, as the dimensions of it can change (overscan mode, NES effectively has this always on)
Instead, all you need to know is the PIXEL ASPECT RATIO, the aspect ratio of each pixel, which is exactly 8:7 not only on the SNES but also on NES ands many other systems using similar video resolutions.

>>6661313
poorfag cope

>>6646864
Based stretch chad.

>>6661313
No filter can nail what a crt does. I'm not an autist for the monitors though

>>6641715
Was Nintendo a SNES developer?

>>6663602
Yes and the right is what they intended the players to see. This isn't complicated. People are just OCD and think that perfect circles mean Nintendo designed games for emulators that wouldnt exist for several years after the game was made. Show us an 8:7 aspect ratio television set.

>>6663602
What if the developers wanted to make ovals?
How would you know if you are correct?

>>6663656
The sprite artist just drew a circle on his computer. They weren’t going to do math to make pre-squished assets for everything so that they display correctly at 4:3.131313 lol

There are very, very, very few instances where artists SNES games pre-squish assets. One notable example is Chrono Trigger, where the moon appears in an iconic cutscene. The moon would be too wide at 4:3, so it is pre-squished to be a circle. Despite this, that decision was likely made only for that asset, because it would be so noticeable if the moon was stretched.

>>6663671
So the artist had it in their head to make horizontally-stretched bubbles? And they did this by drawing perfectly circular bubbles, akin to how bubbles are in real life? So they could make special STRETCHED bubbles?

Seems legit.

>>6663718
They drew circles fully knowing they'd be stretched on a TV. Either they wanted ovals or they didnt care if players saw ovals. Either way they knew that's what people would see.

>>6641494
you got the two switched around the wrong way, but I suspect you knew that and this is just a low effort troll thread

>>6663718
i rest my case

>>6663730
It’s infinitely more likely the artist did not take that into account and just drew a damn picture.

>>6663771
You don't think they looked at the game on a real TV set before selling it?

>>6663601
CRTs are brighter and more colorful and have more contrast between brightness and darkness. I give them that