/vr/ - Retro Games

己が不運を呪うがよい!

>>6556768
Cave and danmakucks ruined shmups.

>>6556768
It's the worst mess they've made other than ESP Rade imo

>>6556876
Cave is Toaplan retard

>>6556913
Agree
Dangun Feveron is the best toaplan shmup but also the worst Cave shmup

>>6556876
Frent Ree

>>6556876
What kind of loser only plays the same kind of game?

>>6556990
JARPIGGUS

Why did jpeg players become a meme on shmupg
what's the intersect there

>>6557014
>what's the intersect there
some guy thought assassins were after him

>>6556913
Cave's founder only worked on V-V and Batsugun while at Toaplan, dumpass.

Fire Shark shits all over anything Ikeda's made, and Yuge/Uemura were the superior STG devs.

>>6557014
It's unironic politics, they create paranoia over an invisible enemy that's infiltrated everywhere similar to a cold war "red scare". It's an effective tactic in destroying communities.

>>6557014
this one poster had a hateboner for rpg games and rpg fans because he blamed progression for killing off skill-based arcade-y games

>>6557018
>Fire Shark shits all over anything Ikeda's made
no scoring depth
gets boring at loop 2 desu, fun game to play for a month or two. Ikeda's games last decades

>>6557019
The irony bring that theirs was the community that got destroyed.
>muh mad maxine krautina can't handle the jarpig horror elements cream wot u play retardo secret superplays pfffffftttt
And nothing of value was lost.

>The irony bring that theirs was the community that got destroyed.
speak english

>>6557037
Having trouble handling the horror elements?

>>6556768
>>6556864
Is there a plot summary in English anywhere? Not just the backstories, but the endings.

>get btfo on your own general by jrpg chads
>run away to discord like little bitch niggas
>come crawling back to /vr/ because you realize discord is run by literal tranny communists from san fagcisco who purge any wrongthink

oh i am laffin hard

>>6557067
>oh i am renting out my head for free
k

the best schumps

>>6557014
There's a scene in that French shmup documentary where a Japanese guy says players turned to RPGs because they were easily beaten. Some people took that to mean that the entire shoot 'em up genre was completely destroyed by the existence of JRPGs.

>>6557121
lots of jrpg players say they are sad when good rpg is over, they don't want to finish it and will drag it out needlessly long to enjoy it more. they dont look at beating jrpgs as trophies to collect, like 1cc collectors.

>>6557145
Beating a game is not an accomplishment, it means you sacrificed precious time for some entertainment, that's it.

>>6557014
Its survival of the fittest
Shmucks died
Jarpigs remain strong

The rest my friend, is COPE

>>6557058
A guy named GaijinPunch did an excellent translation some 15 years ago, but I can't find it anymore or his page so it's another piece lost to time.

>>6557201
Speaking of translations, are there any for some of the other Cave games like Muchi Muchi Pork? desu the only arcade game translation I've seen is the Valkyrie one on Namco Museum Vol 5 and I'm pretty sure that was actually a sourceport. I know you have to use HBMAME for this type of thing (except sometimes MAME will have hacks for some reason? Donkey Kong II Jumpman Returns and Robotron Tie-Dye? Why them and not all the hacks?) but idk if there are any translations

>>6557145
They drag out jrpg because they don't wanna go back to their shitty life.

>>6556768
Muchi Muchi Pork is good, Guwange is good, DoDonPachi is good, don't really give a shit about the others

>>6558015
Muchi Muchi Pork is peak coomer trash. Also someone at CAVE had a fat fetish.

>>6557232
Nice try with your troll quote, fuckhead. Tesla died before either space war or Pong were made.

>>6558031
And That's a Good Thing, Here's Why

Guwanges fucking awesome and needs more love, dont fall for the memes the game long chaining is not that bad

>>6558031
Go back to twitter you literal faggot

>>6558063
No you fuck off to your coomer cave you degenerate POS.

>>6558065
There is nothing coomer or degenerate about liking big titties fat asses and meaty thighs you asexual freak

>>6558069
I forgot that glorifying obesity and disgusting landwhales is the normal in Burgerland.

Why do people say Dangun Feveron
The game fucking came out worldwide it's called Fever SOS
You don't call Kirby's Adventure Hoshi no Kābī: Yume no Izumi no Monogatari

>>6558075
Finding women who are a bit fat in all the right places attractive is normal everywhere, you on the other hand come off as mentally ill euthanasia fodder

>>6558092
That's what the funny announcer man says and I trust him

>>6558095
No I just didn't marry a fat cow you disgusting fat flap loving muttoid

The Muchi Muchi Pork girls aren't even fat, they're just a little chubby
Also I'd like to argue that all of Cave's games except Deathsmiles II are retro because the Cave CV1000B and CV1000D are based on 1990s hardware

>>6558101
>There's still time to dump the ugly whore you
I'm so sorry, there's still time to dump your ugly androgynous whore and get a decent woman before she pumps out kid anon

>>6558092
Fever SOS sounds stupid

>>6556768
Guwange more like POOwange T B H

>>6558106
He has to pretend they're morbidly obese cause if he doesn't then he'll realize how utterly retarded and freakish what he's saying is lmao

>>6558107
STFU already fat lover

>>6557014 spanish poster tardo low iq and insane

>this is what passes for morbid obesity in eur*pe

>>6558120
Hey man dont give us shit cause of one retard plus I bet hes a brazilian faggot theyre responsible for a lot of these kinds of chimpouts

I'm looking for an old vertical shmup I played as a kid - the only thing I remember about it is, the game over had an arnold schwarzanegger action kind of voice saying "You are dead!".

One I do remember, is Terroid. It has a really good soundtrack, and the gameplay is extremely satisfying.

Psikyo was here.

Cave is for losers.

Seibu Kikehatsu > Pisskyo > Gayve

>>6558031
>>6558065
>>6558069
thicc girls are meant for big guys. sorry you sound like a small boy.

guys who don't like THICC GIRLS are manlets, skinny, crippled, bald or all of those plus tiny penis. So they prefer small girls (probably pedos). It's normal because guys like to feel powerful and in control with their women.
But if you're 5'5 and 100lbs then a thicc lady is going to scare you and make you feel inadequate and dominated.

>>6559685
>t. small boy who has spent way too much time stewing on why he thinks he fails with women

So out of curiosity I downloaded the collection that used to be on the /vg/ shmup general, played a little and now I'm really digging this genre.
How should I tackle the collection? I was thinking of going in chronological order.
Any console/microcomputer exclusives I should look into too?

>>6559685
The amount of mental gymnastics here would be amusing if it wasn't sad.

can someone help me identity an old arcade shmup?
>arcade in late 80s
>has 2P mode
>has time bomb which reverse the time a few seconds so you can evade bullets
>vertical scrolling

can someone help me identity an old arcade shmup?
>arcade in late 80s or early 90s
>has 2P mode
>has time bomb which reverse the time a few seconds so you can evade bullets
>vertical scrolling

Really awesome that I can't discuss a genre I like because of a handful of autists from /vg/

>>6558120
>>6559564
>>6559668
cave is based
>>6559685
sounds pretty gay to be so picky about women's body types
>>6560749
espgaluda
>>6560553
just play cave games in chronological order

>>6560553
post the collection
also for console exclusives, absolutely play trouble shooter and trouble shooter vintage on the genesis

>>6560942
A picture of the games or a link to it?
Also trouble shooter looks wacky

>>6560913
>espgaluda
It's from late 80's or early 90s, espgaluda is 2003.
You control a ship.

>>6560961
picture would be fine, i have a mame set

>>6560553
By company, start with the most well known ones like Cave, Raizing, IREM, Konami, Toaplan, Psikyo, etc. and then look into more obscure stuff
>>6560868
You don't want to discuss shit

Are
>Philosoma
>Radiant Silvergun
>ESPGaluda
>Darius Gaiden
>Gradius V
>Psryvariar Delta
Any good?

>>6562073
Psyvariar Delta is great if you like playing for score

>>6557031
Samesame doesn't have convoluted and gimmicky scoring mechanics because the survival is fun and engaging enough on its own to warrant not needing such gay shit.

>>6556768
I'd love to learn how to 'git gud' at shmups, but I have a hard time getting past the frustration factor of learning them. It's one of the few genres I haven't really touched since I started gaming.

>>6562073
>Gradius V
Not retro.

>>6562257
rick come back for fuck sake, i dont get why you left my cord to and yace died

>>6562296
The hell does this post mean?

>>6562297
it means rick went awol and yace died

>>6562297

>>6562330
sup pedo

>>6556768
what are the best shmups on steam besides the 2ho games

>>6562339
Dariusburst CS

did yace kill himself cus ricky exposed him as cheat?

can't wait to grab that G-Darius port later this year and credit-feed it like a motherfucker

>spent hours "fixing" the audio issue in G-Darius only to find out the opening isn't meant to have background music anyway

if someone beats your Thunder Dad 2 score will you come back?

>>6562394
lol, who was trying to fix it? When I played it on ps1 years ago I thought it was because of slowdown or something, until I played the PS2 port on Taito Legends and realized it was supposed to be silent for the first thirty seconds or so.

i can imagine the retard reviews coming out when the Cosmic Revelation pack comes out in the west
'durrr buggy game doesn't even play music at start of stage, grunga bunga quarter carpet muncher'

What are the best versions of G-Darius and Gaiden?

>>6562473
In Darius Gaiden's case. if not on shmupmame (because newest mame fucks a little bit with the audio - not a huge deal but hey), then the new Cosmic Collection port is about as good as it gets. Blows saturn ver out of the water.

For G-Darius it's harder to say. Currently, the most accurate way to play is on a ps1 emulator with overclock, because a native ps1 port runs a little too slow, and the PS2 version removes all slowdown (making it harder).

THAT BEING SAID, I wouldn't dissuade someone from the ps2 version on Taito Legends 2, as it's quite a nice straight-up arcade port. However, M2 just announced that the Cosmic Revelation collection, supposedly coming out late this year, will have an HD port of G-Darius for PS4/Switch. Much like the first Darius collection I imagine this will be the best way to play the game when it comes out.

TLDR, either buy a cheap copy of TL2, or wait for the Cosmic Revelation collection.

>releasing M2 port on a shovelware console
AAAAA why the fuck do devs care about the switch

>>6562512
it'll be on ps4 too, xboner.

Switch makes them money from the collectard nintensoys so they put it there. Luckily they don't half-ass it like 99% other shmups on switch.

>>6561694
>You don't want to discuss shit
Why would I try that in a thread that's 90% shitposting
the ikaruga thread was good but it archived

who is yace

>>6562073
>Gradius V
I prefer IV to V.

>Philosoma
Yes, one of my favorites on PSX.

>>6558045

>>6557018

>fire shark

how is a generic 80s airplane shooter better than anything?

>>6563972
not enough scantily clad underage anime girls making orgasm sounds for you lad?

>>6564020

is that what you think shmups are after the bronze age?

>>6563620
Yace was a french shmup player who went missing and passed away very recently.

>>6564078
do u think he suicided or fell?

>>6563972
Fuck off coomer

>>6564028
>>6563972

>>6564028
I mean...

What happened to Cave? Will they ever make another real game again?

>>6567275
They disbanded their arcade division a few years ago and only make casual phone "games" now.

ricky....

https://youtu.be/YCYaALgW80c

>>6567550

>>6565573
Looks good to me.

What's considered elite in shmup competition? Has the expectation changed because of bullet hells?

Thanks for the suggestion OP, I'll finally put my tate friendly monitor stand to good use. Can't do this on a CRT!

>>6567708
What are you asking, what are the most popular games? Probably Dodonpachi especially DDP and DOJ. Bullet hells sucked up most of the players because they have deeper scoring systems but there is a fair number of players who multiloop classic games too. If you want to know how high level play looks like theres plenty of great replays and liveplays around, SPS' Ketsui run is a classic

>>6567708
If you are clearing a couple shmups a year you're elite. most shmup players aren't even doing that , spend more time with jrpgs, and will drop the genre in a couple years.

>>6565573
Adult Japanese women look young, compared to amerifats.

>>6567797
blank lines are in the wrong direction.

>>6568705
you can tweak scanlines to be in any direction, it's a matter of personal preference

I tried gradius 2 today and muchi muchi pork, they feel like two different genres. What's similar is that I died a lot in both.

>>6567396
really? when did that happen?

>>6568869
lol

>>6568931
they're pretty much at two opposite points on the matrix of shootemup design, though shmups designed by Shinobu Yagawa and people inspired by him are often in their own weird little sub-niche away from more 'straightforward' bullet hell.

Gradius 2 (and the series in general) is all about learning terrain and using it to your advantage, and effective use of options. Let me guess, the volcano stage did you in. It kills everyone, especially their first (or tenth) time.

>>6568869
scanlines filters are retarded enough but scanlines filters set in wrong direction really take the cake

you're a really stupid person

does my 1cc of twinkle star sprites count?

>>6556876
cave and 2hu are the only things keeping the genre alive in the post arcade era so seethe

>>6571853
there's some other good doujin shmups including western ones like ZeroRanger, Devil Engine, and Blue Revolver

>>6562387
a Steam port?

>BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!BONUS!

>>6571853
Which is why it's seen as a genre for perverts and autismos

>>6571853
cave's last real shmup was made in 2012 so i don't see how they're keeping it alive

>>6571898
Switch and PS4 only.

>>6571940
Top notch M2 ports, a lot of fags dont try games unless they can put a box on the shelf or buy them for their brand new fancy toy

>>6571354
Yeah why not, its even a bit harder than some "real" shmups like Batsugun Special

more like Tatsujin Oof, amiright
they shoulda cut out 30minutes of dead-air from this game

>>6572353
they should cut out 50% of pointless bullets from Caveshit

>>6572361
There aren't many pointless bullets in Cave games, a lot of what seems "pointless" creates symmetrical challenge so no part of the screen is safe and you can't just macro dodge every challenging pattern or worse yet use boring safe spots

>>6572353
Just play Psikyo, they perfected the dadshit formula by cutting out the fat

>>6572396
Psikyo games have the opposite problem, way too short and have cookie-cutter level designs.

>>6572481
30+ minutes isn't too short also how the fuck is their level design "cookie cutter" but Toaplan's isn't, what are you on

Blue Revolver is really good
Reminds me of Muchi Muchi Pork with the special attacks

>>6572384
The second any Cave game starts, you're already vomiting and shitting bullets everywhere. It's visual clutter trying to be Gunbird on steroids.

>>6571940
Cave's legacy lives on hard in stuff like Blue Revolver and Crimzon Clover which are almost ripoffs honestly (still really good)

>>6572384
Your ship isn't fast enough to engage all the bullet vomit on the screen and its almost never symmetrical like in touhou so no, it doesn't create symmetrical challenge. It creates visual noise and the illusion of depth and challenge.
Cave should cut out 50% of their useless bullet spam, it only tricks and impresses absolute newbs

>safe spots bad
Every cave game has safe spots

>>6572936
Poo revolver is poverty cave, it feels cheap, it looks cheap, it plays cheap. Never mention it alongside crimson clover.

>>6573172
Looks cheap for sure but it plays fine. It's fun. The special attack system reminds me of Muchi Muchi Pork but with other options besides a laser.

>>6573170
>Your ship isn't fast enough to engage all the bullet vomit on the screen and its almost never symmetrical like in touhou so no
LMFAO you are a retard it's almost always symmetrical, you get roughly the same pattern on both sides of the screen with only slight variation coming from boss positioning and rng. If they got rid of 50% of the bullets almost all of their patterns could be broken by macro dodging near where the enemy shoots from. Dumb faggot
>Every cave game has safe spots
No unless you count every place that's safe for more than a few frames as a "safe spot". Even cheesy parts like DDP boss 5 require movement and readjusting they don't let you sit in place like dadshit

>>6573184
No cave game has symmetrical bullet patterns except some rare boss patterns. They're not touhou, they're disorganized, overlapping messes. You're delusional and don't know what symmetry means.

Getting rid of fifty percent is good, when you have hundred of useless junk bullets on the screen.

>>6572396
Psikyo games are too short and used too many dense patterns, hit boxes are too small, trying to inject cave problems into the old formula.
Really funny when clueless people talk about shmups.

>>6573205
Almost every single pattern that makes up those "disorganized overlapping messes" is symmetrical you tit, did you even play the games or did you just watch yt videos and went hurrr big mess. You think they do circular or half circular patterns constantly just because? No you dumb idiot it's to force dodging no matter which part of the screen you're at, some asymmetrical elements like rotation direction don't change this function

>>6573217
Not a single thing you listed is a problem, what are the hitboxes too small for exactly are you suggesting dodging Psikyo's patterns is easy?

>>6573221
It's not classic style? Small Hitboxes and dense patterns is not how you perfect old school shmups. Visually and mechanically Psikyo leans more towards modern micro dodging...Do we have to spell it out for you younglings? Do you even play shmups ? You sound clueless.

>>6573232
>It's not classic style?
It's not, it's an all around improvement of it
>Visually and mechanically Psikyo leans more towards modern micro dodging.
You've never played a Psikyo game in your life

>>6573218
Repeating yourself isn't proof. I've cleared cave games, I've cleared touhou, I know what symmetry means. Cave patterns aren't full screen symmetrical, except the rare boss pattern due to his static position.

>>6573234
Ruining the formula isn't an improvement of the formula. It's a radical change in another direction. Just stop embarrassing yourself little kid.

>>6573237
It's a good thing then that Psikyo just went ahead and improved it without ruining a thing, the fact that you think it's about modern micro dodging really says it all good luck trying to micro dodge some of those loop 2 patterns you can barely even see, macro dodge and perfectly timed tap dodges is what the games are all about

>>6573234
>>6573235
>>6573237
>>6573249

Psikyo is very not about micro-dodging, yeah.

Generally what most of the games are about is making large, sweeping movements to macro patterns or abuse safe spots and things like that. If you're trying to micro dodge a boss pattern or enemy wave, it's probably because you haven't "figured out" the ideal way of doing it.

>>6573235
The fuck are you saying, that a pattern isn't symmetrical even if it's fully symmetrical just because the origin point is on the left or right side? No one cares about symmetry on the screen itself that doesn't matter, what matters is that the pattern itself shoots consistently around the entire enemy making it so you can't just cheese shit with macro dodges. ffs visualize what you're saying, if you remove the bullets that aren't directly aimed at the player/close around them then you're asking your patterns to be misdirected and macrododged unless you increase hitboxes and speeds across the board

>>6573261
>Generally what most of the games are about is making large, sweeping movements to macro patterns
Sure, for the first 3 stages, not the later stages, and def not loop 2 where the patterns are faster and suicide bullets prevent large movements.

>>6573263
He's saying you don't know what you're talking about if you think Cave patterns are predominately symmetrical across the screen.

>>6556876
Based but 90s Cave is still boomer tier

>>6573298
I'm saying that he's missing the point, and I'm going to add that you are retarded and have never played Psikyo. The fact that bullets get really fast is precisely what forces you to rely on macro-dodges because micro dodging through dense patterns at those speeds would require extreme precision and far more risk than necessary

>>6573249
>>6573319
>tap dodging
tap dodging, in multiple directions, using a tiny hit box, while you're totally surrounded by bullets is a form of micro dodging.

>>6573336
Micro dodging is weaving through complex almost always slow moving but dense patterns using very precise control. It's not "memorize fast as fuck patterns and tap at precise times". What you are describing is has existed in the genre forever, but you're too thick to realize that you're doing the same thing in Raiden, where the lack of bullets is compensated for with fuckhuge hitboxes. Also show the actual video of the pattern on the left instead of a still image, there's no "moving while surrounded by bullets" the entire pattern either passes you by or kills you in what must be less than 1 second.

>>6573359
If you think tap dodging late Psikyo is the same as tap dodging early Toaplan you're totally lost, not experienced with old shmups, and you''re probably on drugs.

>>6573218
Cave is not known for symmetrical patterns, Touhou is. Are you just repeating something you read on a forum?

>>6573372
>If you think tap dodging late Psikyo is the same as tap dodging early Toaplan you're totally lost
Oh yes, Psikyo's tap dodging is better and well, more prominent than in early Toaplan's games because the latter had fixed directions
Essentially the same kind of dodging but with more engaging patterns :
https://youtu.be/slsJtc9kJF4?t=383
https://youtu.be/599ubitYGq4?t=985

>that pic
>couldn't even compare BOSS FIGHTS
Jesus fuck lmao, here's another "comparison" damn wtf where'd all the symmetry go oh no!!! Are you too stupid to actually discuss what's being discussed?

Here's a quick visualization to help the mentally impaired posters on /vr/ understand things that should be obvious to even a toddler

>>6573394
Problem is we know what the actual stages look like.

>>6573406
Ah you got me I wanted to show a Touhou stage but it just looked like this same screenshot copypasted several times. Anyway that's not the point you idiot, never was, never will be

>>6572384
>a lot of what seems "pointless" creates symmetrical challenge so no part of the screen is safe
>>6573218
>Almost every single pattern that makes up those "disorganized overlapping messes" is symmetrical you tit
>>6573410
>Anyway that's not the point you idiot, never was, never will be

Not sure why lying about symmetry was meant to prove.
We know Cave stages aren't symmetrical.

>>6573417
Where in those posts did I say that the STAGES are symmetrical, point it out faggot. I said that the patterns are which is true for anything more complex than basic aimed bullets, which are the exact opposite of clutter anyway. Even more complex aimed patterns are all symmetrical because a lack of "clutter" would create obvious as fuck blind spots. Come on, how dense are you?

>>6573429
>Where in those posts did I say that the STAGES are symmetrical

>"a lot of what seems "pointless" creates symmetrical challenge so no part of the screen is safe"
>creates symmetrical challenge
>no part of the screen is safe

This is all wrong, the challenge created does not become symmetrical, it becomes vomit clutter. Not sure why you even brought up the word symmetry in the first place.

>>6573441
So in other words I never said that and you're reaching deep in your ass for anything vaguely resembling that statement. I brought up "symmetry" because the patterns are symmetrical, this is a fact that you can easily observe. If I did mess up anything it's talking about screen position when it's rather about your position relative to the enemy, I stated that directly later but you're so dense you belong in Mushi Futari Ultra so it never pierced your skull. What you think is "clutter" is a basic counter-measure against blind spots and cheese. Ironically most of your screenshots are devoid of this "clutter" you speak of and just show very simple aimed patterns that create walls that block the players path, impressively incompetent.

>>6573464
Lol

>>6573464
>I brought up "symmetry" because the patterns are symmetrical, this is a fact that you can easily observe.
Nonsense at every level, symmetry is very rare in Cave games.

>>6573512
The very first screenshot in your pic is a symmetrical aimed pattern so thats an impressive self own again. Can your brain literally not comprehend how bullet patterns work?

>>6573531
>1st pic is symmetrical
draw the line of symmetry on it.
should be funny.

> how bullet patterns work?
in cave their slow, non-aimed patterns need to be padded with fat. it looks impressive to newbs I guess.

>>6573545
Sure easy
This is actually fascinating, do you seriously not understand how aimed symmetrical patterns work?

>>6573556
That's a different pattern. The one you said was symmetrical is before the mid-boss. Pic related.

The one you posted is at the start of the level, after clearing the popcorn and only having the turret on the screen it will make a symmetrical pattern for 1-2seconds. The rest of the stage is nothing like that.

>do you seriously not understand how aimed symmetrical patterns work?
Do you understand how telling the truth works?

>>6573573
It's literally the same enemy, they fire the same aimed patterns throughout the stage. What you were seeing is those symmetrical patterns overlapping and getting distorted because of the player's movement. I posted the start because it's the easiest to demonstrate the symmetrical nature of the pattern there before too many enemies spawn in and force you to move. I think there might be a little bit of randomization on the smaller side bullets that come in later, but they are still roughly the same on both sides which is what's important. Since you seem to be actually impaired, here's a little picture to teach you how patterns work, the blue line is aimed at the player.

>>6573583
>What you were seeing is those symmetrical patterns overlapping and getting distorted because of the player's movement.
Symmetry is lost when it's overlapped and distorted by moving enemies and other bullet patterns.
That's what happens in Cave games majority of the time. That's why you're wrong to say the 1st pic is symmetrical when it's obviously not due to distortions and overlap, aka clutter.

>>6573593
No don't muddy the waters it's distorted by your movement first and foremost. If you stay relatively still then the pattern will stay quite symmetrical, and this isn't even some far-fetched proposition since tap dodging is pretty intuitive. Here's another simple breakdown of the exact enemy you wanted, it's quite orderly if you actually take the time to see what's happening. And you are shitting me, how is that clutter? The overlap is what creates the challenge, if not for that and the symmetry of each individual bust of bullets, all you'd have to do is bait the enemy into shooting left/right and macro-dodge the whole pattern, or do some other dumb shit. Do you literally just dislike it because you can't follow any of it and it seems like random noise to you? It gets much clearer with experience, I promise. :)

>>6573605
You're not looking at what's actually going on. First you looked at a different part of the game with different conditions. Now you're looking at a small subsection of the pattern, can't even see the ship and ignores actual gameplay conditions.


Look again: >>6573573
Here is the pattern during real gameplay, with only a few chain hits difference. Draw your line of symmetry there if you're so adamant to double down.

>>6573615
>Now you're looking at a small subsection of the pattern, can't even see the ship and ignores actual gameplay conditions.
LOL, the enemy LITERALY just repeats that pattern, that's what's actually happening when the player isn't moving around a lot. You get presented with the exact pattern the game throws at you, and you're complaining? Why would you need to see the ship, or demand a full stage chain (which I assume is what you mean by "gameplay conditions") is frankly quite baffling and makes me question whether you even play these games. What's more interesting is how you can possibly justify your dumb statement that any of those bullets are "pointless clutter"

>>6573630
>Why would you need to see the ship, or demand a full stage chain (which I assume is what you mean by "gameplay conditions") is frankly quite baffling
What's baffling is saying a pattern is symmetrical and when asked to draw the line of symmetry you use a different pattern under different conditions, or zoom in on a sub-section ignoring everything else going on.

>that's what's actually happening when the player isn't moving around a lot.
So the patterns are symmetrical if we cut out the popcorn, if we stop moving, and if we only zoom in on a certain sub-section, for a few seconds? So what's actually going on the screen is irrelevant, what matters is your goal-post moving?

>What's more interesting is how
What's interesting is how you're still replying yet have nothing to say and can't back up this symmetry nonsense. Symmetry is lost when it's constantly disrupted by competing patterns, bullet overlap, ship movement and enemy movement. All the things you ignore while moving the goal-posts.

>>6573654
>What's baffling is saying a pattern is symmetrical and when asked to draw the line of symmetry you use a different pattern under different conditions
Same pattern, messed up by player movements (since it's aimed you dunce lol)
>So the patterns are symmetrical
Yup
>So what's actually going on the screen is irrelevant
Nope, it's very relevant but not to the point I'm making which is that the "clutter" is a result of an underlying pattern symmetry, and a basic anti-cheese mechanism against simple macro-dodging solutions. You see, two symmetrical patterns fired at different points of the screen can create an asymmetrical situation, that does not however make the patterns themselves not symmetrical, it just makes the encounter (combinations enemies/patterns) not symmetrical. Do you need further help understanding these basic concepts?
>Symmetry is lost
No, the symmetry is there, it's just harder to read but it still serves the same function which I described above.

Can you point out which bullets you think are pointless clutter and why? Or are you backing off that original statement

>>6573683
>No, the symmetry is there, it's just harder to read
> it just makes the encounter (combinations enemies/patterns) not symmetrical.
That was the whole point and it took you forever to realize it.
Players don't have the luxury to deal with symmetrical patterns hidden underneath layers of clutter, they have to route the actual encounter with moving enemies/over-lapping patterns and all the visual noise Cave is known for.
You might have the luxury to move goal-posts when you're posting nonsense here, but players can't move the goal-posts when they play Cave games.

>>6573710
LMAO HOLY SHIT, you somehow manage to become dumber with each post
Mainly I refused to believe you'd be this much of a buffoon and misunderstand what a bullet pattern means, completely miss it when I spelled it out for you AND in the end you'd make a completely irrelevant point that has nothing to do with the discussion. On top of that you're also JUST PLAIN WRONG. Players do have the luxury of dealing with the underlying symmetry, that's one of the big things you'll look for when figuring out patterns, and a lack of symmetry will usually have significant implications for routing esp for survival. Do you know anything at all? Will you ever defend your original argument that the bullets are pointless clutter? The answer to both is no.

>>6573734
>Will you ever defend your original argument that the bullets are pointless clutter?
The fact that you moved the goal-posts several times proves my point. You never dealt with the images I posted in their actual conditions.

And now you contradicted yourself when you said
>it just makes the encounter (combinations enemies/patterns) not symmetrical.
versus
>a lot of what seems "pointless" creates symmetrical challenge so no part of the screen is safe

Anyone who's played a Cave game knows that more often then not the screen is a cluttered mess, an asymmetric challenge is created, like this image >>6573512

>>6573782
What point does it prove? Even if I accepted everything you said about asymmetry (which I won't because you keep making one dumb statement after another), that would not make any arguments for the patterns being pointless clutter which is why I think you're so comically retarded. Do you even understand what you're implying when you say that? You're implying that the bullets serve no gameplay purpose. Alternatively you're just saying "SCREEN LOOKS BUSY I DONT LIKE" which is about what I'd expect
>And now you contradicted yourself when you said
There's no contradiction there, I initially worded it poorly and have since clarified it directly multiple times (symmetrical challenge in relation to enemy), there's 0 ambiguity left and no goalposts were moved since.

this is the dumbest fucking nerd shit arguement i've ever read holy shit have fucking sex

Pls just post ur fav shmups and hav gud time :)

>IKD and Yagawa gone and disappeared
>Shootaro posts about sleeping pills and suicide and shitty pay
It's over bros... Cave is kill

>>6574994
And nothing of value was lost.

Meanwhile, Ikaruga 2 comes out this year. :)

Are 3D shmups a thing? I mean shmups with movement in a 3d space, something like Star Fox or is that a different genre altogether?

>>6575797
on rail shooter

>>6575797
You mean Zoom909-likes?

Same! Same! Same!
Tatsujin Ou
Strikers 1999


What more do you need?

>>6575797
at that point it's either a sim or an adventure game.
Descent and the Tie Fighter/X-Wing games come to mind

>>6575797
just Zaxxon friend

>>6575857
Yeah something like that
>>6576097
Yeah, the thing I have in mind seems like a completely different genre already

>>6575797

>>6575797
Like some sort of third-person shooter?
If only...

>>6574994
Yagawa gone? wat

>>6574994
>Shootaro posts about sleeping pills and suicide and shitty pay
typical superplayer

>>6573734
Look at you.... emotional

getting good at ddp has totally ruined the fun of it

>>6576653
then play a game where getting good at it makes the game better: psyvariar 1/2, mars matrix, dimahoo, etc.

games that open up the play field the more your skill increases vs. games that force you to do the exact same route with increasing strictness. It's no coincidence that just about every good ddp player drops the game after reaching a certain point.

Are you prepared to battle sheer despair?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNG7XBCWXQ0

>>6576580
But not wrong

>>6577280
Dimahoo is a bad example, it turns into a chore when you get around to completing item sets.

>>6577327
admittedly I wasn't sure with dimahoo how much flexibility there was with item drops; from my play it seemed like enemies gave different items depending on the charge which maybe meant that you had more variability.

I stand by my point otherwise.

It's over

>>6577280
I downloaded psyvariar delta but it doesn't recognize my D-Pad inputs correctly, even when I use joy2key it fucks it up somehow

>>6577327
Dimahoo looks really unfun to be honest.
Way too much medal collecting, very slow and tedious looking patterns. It plays like the opposite of Sorcerer Striker which was fast paced and exciting

>>6562297
>>6563620
>>6574994
>ric was the one who pointed out yace probably cheated
>he's gone right before yace went missing and found dead
murderer!

>>6578973
The first Mahou isn't all that interesting either, basically just a souped up Compile game. A couple cool boss fights but that's about it.
Raizing pretty much sucked outside of Yagawa's Bat trilogy.

Redpill me on Dodonpachi Resurrection Black Label.
https://youtu.be/8YvZl5m74IM

>>6575797
Not in retro no, but PN03 and that new Housemarque game looks like it also risk of rain 2

>>6578995
The farm was right bros...

>>6556876
>Cave and danmakucks ruined shmups.
Almost no one is playing Cave, lots of people are playing dadshits in the west.

>>6579610
Nobody makes dadshit anymore. Meanwhile everyone and their dog just clones Caveshit.

>>6579849
that's why they all suck and are even worse than cave

>>6579857
I thought Cavefags loved Zero Ranger, Crimzon Clover and Blue Revolver though?

>>6579849
Gigachad Granzella is going to bring back R-Type (and Picorrine Soft makes dadgames). Cotton is getting rebooted with a whole new game, M2 is bringing Darius back to the masses, and City Connection is bringing Jaleco back.

Meanwhile Cave is a decade past dead, its employees suicidally depressed, and its clones don't sell. Learn your lesson: the dads always win. Don't fuck with the dads.

>>6579895
not really, they play them for a week and forget about them

>>6579918
is M2 gonna do Truxton 2 and Same^3?

>>6578998
Dimahoo is KINO

>>6579921
Yes to the first, this year. Same should come eventually; they have ambitions to port every toaplan title, even Ghox presumably.

>>6579921
They should do Dogyuun, that game could really benefit from some bugfixing, then it'd be perfect.

>>6579895
ZeroRanger isn't really a Cave clone

we back? yeah im thinking we back

>>6579971
>no clp
>no spicky
>no kraut
nah.

>>6580015
how would you know on an anonymous board

>>6580030
Detecting copious amounts of SEETHE, COPE, and lolis. Judging by the thread we're partways there.

>>6580030
tardo was permarangebanned from 4chan, cee hasn't been the same since the mental breakdown and kraut doesn't care now that his goal of killing shmup generals was completed

>>6580051
all of that is wishful thinking. you should know better.

>cee
>tardo
I never saw two people more obsessed with what other people do. I pity them.

>>6579610
lol wat, this is completely false and I dont even know where you got that idea

>>6577280
>vs. games that force you to do the exact same route with increasing strictness
That's basically every shmup, except there is a lot of rng involved.

>>6580081
Jarpig detected.
Gb2 leveling up gay elfs.

>>6580272
Eventually yeah, many shmups let you gradually refine your routes while you're learning and reward decent plays with an apt score without constantly kicking you in the balls and completely taking away the run's potential because of a single mistake

>>6580312
That's true. That's not the problem with DDP chaining though. The problem with it is, that it's so unintuitive to learn. It's basically a game exclusively for copy monkeys.

>>6580331
That's why if you want freedom, you go play Mars Matrix.

>>6580447
Or Guwange. This also has chaining, but the timer is not so stupidly strict, that you can't even learn to chain without copying.

>>6580447
>>6580479
The best part of both is that the chaining is just a bonus to add pressure, the game scoring could work even without chaining because it's all about building up coins/cubes proactively instead of mostly JUST being the game's bitch and trying to keep a constantly depleting meter going.

>>6580495
That's also what I like about Ikaruga Hard mode. There the game basically also could work without the chaining, because of the suicide bullets coming from everything.

>ikaruga and guwange talk
who could be behind these posts

>>6580573
Basically everyone played Ikaruga

>tfw want to get into shmups but i feel like to play them well you have to be a copy monkey

>>6580987
Define play them well

>>6581006
1ccs and high scores

>>6581008
>1ccs
Are you kidding? You don't have to copy anything
>high scores
Only to be absolute top tier in high competition games, a level you won't reach anyway

>>6581012
>a level you won't reach
Holy projection

>>6580573
guwange is fun though. it's like the least homosexual cave game

>>6580987
You won't know unless you play them, who knows, you may come up with innovative strats that nobody else has thought of, then they'll be the copy monkeys.

>>6581015
He's already making excuses before he's begun, the definition of ngmi

>>6581017
This actually, shitplayers complain about muh copy monkey crap and come up with endless excuses, but then players like kiwi just pick up lesser played games or modes and tear them a new one coming up with their own strats. It's just cope

>>6581047
kiwi pls it's time to stop posting this we know doj has i-frames

>>6581062
aquas.jpg

>>6581023
Might as well say some japs don't practice with save states, so what? They are wasting tons of time and not valuing their time.
Copying saves time. SMART people value time. Why would I invent a route for a 1cc or 2all when dozens exist on YouTube?
Routing an entire game is dull, copying a route also. I don't mind routing a 1minute boss fight, that's normal. But routing 40 minutes straight takes all the fun out and turns you into the games dancing monkey.
If you can't understand why both copying and routing are seen as boring you literally have autism.

>>6581016
>it's like the least homosexual cave game

This. And Deathsmiles too

>>6581023
>pick up lesser played games or modes
The üproblem here is that these games/modes are mostly shit though.

All the good shmups have been grinded to death

>>6581172
Pedoshit is as bad as homoshit.

>>6581216
Wrong. It's the complete opposite.

>>6581216
marrying a 15year old and having a bunch of kids is definitely better than ramming your sausage in an dudes aids hole, talking with a lisp and dying prematurely

the virgin dad vs the cave chad

>>6581082
What is this absolute drivel? I am genuinely disgusted at how dumb and unrelated your post is anon, kill yourself.
>SMART people value time.
>Why would I invent a route for a 1cc or 2all when dozens exist on YouTube?
Your idiocy is genuinely puzzling. You're playing video games for personal enjoyment and (supposedly) don't enjoy copying routes so why the fuck would you copy routes? Though ofcourse this has never been the real problem :
>Routing an entire game is dull
See you being a lazy faggot who's hates practicing or learning games is the real problem here not whatever "but muh copymonkey" cope you spew

>>6581174
Not really, there's plenty of good arrange modes some were even new like Deathtiny and Psyvariar Delta

>>6581319
>there's plenty of good arrange
Doubt

>>6581329
It's as I said previously, those who can, do; those who can't whine about having to practice online using any number of excuses they can find.

>>6581246
Ruining an 8 year old's mind and taking advantage of their naivete is worse than a couple dudes fucking and you know it, subhuman pedokike.

>>6581341
>taking advantage of their naivete
When i was a kid I was actually less naive than after getting brainwashed by school.

I was fucking wild as a kid. Only school turned me into a domesticated naive fuck. Took a while for me to realize this and get out of it again.

>>6581341
the only people ruining 8 year old minds are LGBT gestapo, telling them the benefits of sodomy in elementary sex ed class, or how they can pick their gender at will and take hormones

>retarded arguments over pedophilia and faggotry

shmupg's back on the menu boys

hey rick its cee, following your departure ive now closed the discord and am like you retiring from the scene, im sad you didn't give me some form of contact though as you're a good dude and smart unlike 99% of these feral dork knicker smears.

>>6581047

>>6582046
take it easy cee, keep improving and get well

>>6582046
There is no shmup scene in the west anyway, apart from random 4chan threads and some twitter social justice warriors attention whoring.

I like the STG Weekly channel on YT.
Shmup master too but he hasn't uploaded in ages

>>6582410
Remember how he interviewed Compile's Moo Nitani and promised a translation like 3 years ago?

>>6582557
too busy mastering shmups

>>6582158
thanks lags.

>>6582081
lmfao

Like a phoenix from the ashes, shmupg will always rise again.

Why did they give Mushihimesama such retarded scoring mechanics? I'm still not sure if the scoring in Maniac is on purpose like this or if it's actually a bug.

>>6571907
>boner!
correction.

Played Blazing Lasers today. Is it known for being easy cuz uh, usually I'm terrible at vertical and I was doing pretty well.

>>6582904
explain why you think it's so bad

>>6582959
The whole game just feels like they didn't really know where to go with it. You just have a shot button, a shitty focus button, and a bomb button. And then you have these weird mechanics where you have to shoot in certain intervals to get more points. And the game doesn't even explain to you what to do to get more score.

Compare this to Deathsmiles for example. There you have all these cool weapon and scoring mechanics, and everything is just really well fleshed out and put together. You immediately get an idea of what to do to score in it and there are lots of different ways to score.

Mushihimesama just feels like they put all the focus on the graphics and art, and creating impressive bulletpatterns. The rest of the game feels very sloppy.

>>6582904
Because the scoring and higher difficulty modes were an afterthought the game was meant to be just the Original mode. Play 1.5 it has a simple but fun point blanking system

whats the difference between mame 32 and 64 bits?

>>6583383
I think it's like most other applications, optimized to run better on a 64bit or 32bit system. Unless you have a Brazilian toaster, you should go with 64bit.

>>6583531
I downloaded some shmupmame pack with some roms but it is based on mame 32 bits

>>6583261
Like the other guy mentioned, what you're saying only applies to Manic mode.

>>6583339
>the game was meant to be just the Original mode
Yea, that's what I thought too. Game just feels like an Espgaluda 2 alpha, but with pretty art.

>>6583551
Pretty much every mode in it has shit scoring. Original mode barely has any scoring at all, and Ultra mode, i don't even know if it has any scoring system...

1.5 has acceptable scoring, but I don't find simple point-blanking very fun. Especially with such danmaku patterns.

>>6583586
Original MAX doesnt have danmaku patterns, its pretty sparse but the bullets are fast, plus you get autobomb. The slowdown is pretty fucking stupid though but Caves gonna Cave and it ends up helping you point blank in the long run

>>6583602
>Original MAX doesnt have danmaku patterns
Not really, but point-blanking there is still very difficult and kind of awkward. In Ketsui for example it feels much more natural to point-blank.

I think the best way to play Mushi is just to play on Ultra for survival. But Ultra is also kind of annoying to play.

>>6582930
a lot of console shmups are easy because there's no need to fleece quarters from you. even modern shooters inspired by arcade games, while they tend to be harder than 80s-90s console shmups, are also a lot more forgiving than arcade games (usually in the form of a lot more extends and infinite continues, though that second point is moot if you use MAME or free play on a PCB anyway)

>>6583541
honestly just download the newest mame 0.222 and a full rom set from archive.org (use downthemall and exclude the three roms that exceed a gigabyte, none of them work anyway, and you'll get a full set that's only around 44GB in size, put it on a USB stick if you don't want it taking up space on your hard drive). I recommend this because:
>MAME roms have a lot of dependencies
>You're bound to find some really cool fun obscure shit that you would have never discovered otherwise

>>6583630
(also picking and choosing roms is way more time-consuming in the long run than just downloading a full set because you inevitably always come back for more and eventually probably the set gets taken down from archive, it's a whole thing)

>>6583641
oh yeah and having to audit your roms every time is a hassle

>>6583630
I downloaded shmupmame because I thought that it was configured to reduce input lag

>>6583653
it is, but, it's also super outdated (last release in 2013). If it were more recent I'd probably recommend it more. I'm not a superplayer or anything but as far as I can tell MAME doesn't have that much input lag anyway.

>>6583653
>>6583668
Also I think some more recent Cave games don't work on it, like probably not DoDonPachi Resurrection since that was 2012

are you refering to this rom set https://archive.org/details/MAME220RomsOnlyMerged >>6583630

>>6583679
no
https://archive.org/details/mame0222_base_rom

>>6573298
>>6573319
>Sure, for the first 3 stages, not the later stages, and def not loop 2 where the patterns are faster and suicide bullets prevent large movements.

See, I can understand having this opinion if you've never seriously played them and gotten a 1-all or decently far into loop 2.

The thing about Psikyo is you ARE supposed to set up boss patterns for sweeping micro - even on loop 2 and with suicide bullets, yes - but the strategies to do so are often a bit...obscure.

There's often a "trick" to how you're supposed to optimally macro patterns, usually involving starting out in a specific place on the screen and then making some specific misdirection and movements to control the pattern. Psikyo games tend to feel frustrating to learn for this reason because unless you're watching videos and save stating along the way, they tend to fuck your shit up in ways that feel irritating (ie suddenly overwhelmed by fast bullets or forced to micrododge when your hitbox is several times too big for that sort of thing), but they do get very smooth and fun once you figure them out.

>>6583767
>The thing about Psikyo is you ARE supposed to set up boss patterns for sweeping micro

typo, meant macro. You can tell what I mean!

>>6583704
thanks bro

>>6583767
I practiced 2-1 Dragon Blaze today. Felt like Futari ultra stage 1. Lots of micro, screen full of bullets. Even if I quick kill shit. Stop lying

>>6584542
Get a route retard
https://youtu.be/fdCDM7NMwx8?t=674

>>6584548
I watched BOS loop 2 for the route. Backs up everything I said. It's a bullet vomit mess with tons of twitchy micro dodging and weaving through patterns, even with careful routing.
You're taking the side of a guy arguing that Psikyo perfected dadshit shmups, total nonsense. DB loop 2 plays like a danmaku more than a classic shmup. Did you even look at 2-1?

>>6584548
>Rob
Look at 2-1 with Ian.

>>6584626
>>6584634
>U-use this different character

This backtracking, so Rob is the classic style character then and Psikyo shits on dadshit regardless so cope

>>6584651
It's more apparent with the other characters at 2-1.
For Rob look at 2-3, specially when the big ship comes. These are dense, slow patterns, with lots of micro weaving....and this is second loop.
Psikyo might have fast boss patterns but loop 2 is slow dense danmaku style patterns.

>>6584651
Rob is the slowest character in the game so of course macro'ing with him is harder.

>>6584768
Wait but what is your point then? My point is that even with Rob there's lots of macro dodging. Checked out Ian and it's even more extreme, lots of pattern misdirection, big sweeping movements and streaming

>>6584695
There are some occasional dense slower patterns in DBlaze yeah, macro dodging is overwhelmingly what you'll be doing though. It's part of what makes it better than dadshit

>>6584870
Oh sorry, I got confused between you and the guy who was still trying to argue that the game was pure micro dodging past stage 3. Convo was a bit difficult to follow.

>>6584870
>>6584876
>It's part of what makes it better than dadshit
You might like them, that's fine, but they aren't in the category of dadshit shmups. They're nu-shmups. Something else.

>There are some occasional dense slower patterns in DBlaze yeah,
it has enough differences to be set apart from good old shmups.
hit boxes too small, too many slow patterns, too many dense patterns with danmaku tier bullet count, no check points, no power-up chasing. Levels are short as fuck, 11minute loop? lol

>>6585131
Yes that's why they're an improvement on that shitty formula not a recreation of it, they get rid of all those flaws you listed while keeping the good elements like fast bullets lots of macrododging and strict memo

>>6585172
>Shitty formula
Lots of people like the old formula, we don't consider radical change in a different direction an improvement.
Putting slow, purple, bullet vomit in Same!Same!Same! doesn't improve it.

wot u play?

>>6585398

>>6582046
he'll be back, and you too, cunt

all internet "pseudo quitters" make a come back eventually

>>6585398
I started playing Deathsmiles. The game is unusually polished for a Cave game. I really like it.

I wonder if you could beat SWYs Casper WR with SPEs Follet routes. He uses quite different routes with her and seems to be more effective.

im new to shoot em ups
any arcade recommendations
Ive been playing dondonpachi

>>6585792
Recommendation: keep bumping old threads like this one

>>6585792
Don't play Dodonpachi. Daioujou is a much better game. Dodonpachi is very overrated because of the influence it had on the genre.

>>6562073
Radiant Silvergun is a masterpiece imo, easily one of my favourite games.

>>6585807
I find RSG plays way too slow. Everything is so slow in the game. The scrolling speed, the playership speed, the bullets, just everything.

>>6585792
If you are new to shmups you have 2 options. Either you start with games like R-Type and Gradius, or you start with easy bullethell like Touhou, or Cave novice modes.

I would say go with the former, because once you get some expereince in the genre, old games tend to become a bit boring to play (except you never play somethign else perhaps).

>>6585813
I disagree, but I will concede that the last few bosses feel like bullet sponges to me.

>>6585792
>im new to shoot em ups
#1. Flying Shark/Hishouzame, give it a chance, it's really fun.
#2. Batsugun. If you like more bullets Batsugun Special ver.

>>6585398
that certain game

>>6585675
Be sure to check out the scoring system after you clear it. Even though some versions aren't viable for scoring like the Steam port it's still very novel and you'll appreciate the game more afterward.

>>6586430
>Even though some versions aren't viable for scoring like the Steam port
Source

>>6586430
I already know how to score in it. That's what makes it so great. It has a really fun scoring system with lots of strat possibilities.

Not sure why you think Steam version is not viable to score in though. I think it has less slow down, but it's still perfectly playable.

>>6586451
The issue I recall is that slowdown impacts the drop rate of the item counter, and since the timing on the recharges to 1000 items is very tight in some areas, you're not at the intended spot if you follow the same route. Haven't played the ports with that issue myself, but I've seen multiple people say this, and it makes sense. Timing on the item counter can drop like a rock for instance at the first recharge in Windia's route when you destroy the barn. If you don't actually have issues with it though I'd be interested to know
>>6586561
You wrote you started playing it, which suggested you were new. I don't learn scoring until after a clear generally though I suppose some learn before, or something.

>>6586672
>I don't learn scoring until after a clear generally though I suppose some learn before, or something.
Many games give extends for scoring, so even if you just play for survival, it's best to get into scoring right from the start.

>>6556876
>checkpoints
git gud lol

Score systems still make peabrain dadlets furious, eh? Shmups never change.

>>6586884
Scoring systems are cope compensation for danmakrap survival being far more casual and dumbed down compared to based dadshit.

>>6579382
press both fire buttons to win

>>6586162
>that certain game
>that CERTAIN game

>>6586908
They also make games much more interesting to play though. Simply dodging bullets gets a bit boring after a while. And item accumulation just feels great if done right.

>>6587069
Sounds like you just have autism. Let me guess, you were raised on N64 collectathon platformers?

Scoring killed shmups. Back in the good old days, we won the game and moved on to the next one.

>>6587108
Nah, my first console was an Atari and after that Mega Drive. I disliked N64 apart from Goldeneye and Mario Kart perhaps.

>>6587134
stop talking out your ass retard i always played for score

>>6587134
Based. 1cc collecting turns you into a Chad, scoring turns you into a Tranny.

>>6587525
then you're part of the problem buddy

>>6586908
Post your Futari Ultra clear lad

>>6587134
Lol nigger "back in the day" shmups only had their scoring and infinite loops. Even if youre 1cc collecting scoring is good cause it gives you things to do in parts youve already mastered

>>6587683
>Lol nigger "back in the day" shmups only had their scoring and infinite loops.
And, y'know, their difficulty, being way harder than any other genre out there.

>scoring is good
No, scoring is pointless and arbitrary tedium that only appeals to autists, similar to speedtranning, only that's arguably even more autistic than scoring.

>>6587718
Scoring's not pointless at all, it's simply a game mechanic/goal like any other and creates a set of incentives for the player while letting them choose their level of difficulty and commitment at will. If scoring is "tedium" then what is redoing a completely piss easy stage 1-2 which you can do in your sleep? Maybe the other guy's right, you do have a pea brain and are intimidated by abstract systems

>>6587718
Scoring is for people with taste and personalities. Only consumer retard NPCs play one game after the other.
People with a sophisticated taste focus on their favorites instead.

>>6587778
>then what is redoing a completely piss easy stage 1-2 which you can do in your sleep?
Don't play shmups with piss easy early stages then? Duh.

>>6587785
>t. one-trick-pony autist

>>6587789
>Don't play shmups with piss easy early stages then? Duh.
Might as well say "don't play dadshit" then, which is pretty based gotta say

>>6587797
Tatsujin Ou has a harder early game than anything Cave made, though.

>>6587803
LOL nice one lad and here I was thinking you were serious

>>6587778
>Scoring's not pointless at all,
Except it is, you're just milking extra points for the sake of it, but there's really no reason to do it other than for bragging rights which only other autistic trannies will maybe care about.

>>6587826
No shit, it's a video game, you do it because you enjoy it. You think 1cc or even beating a game will give you anything tangible? Lol

everyone here is dumb except me

>>6587826
The point of scoring is to score better, to play better, which is better fun. You can have worse fun, I like better fun.

>>6587718
>being way harder than any other genre out there
Not true, many early arcade games were harder. Not really a genre though. But Robotron 2084 is harder than any shmup.

>>6588080
Robotron is a multidirectional shmup, wtf are you on anon? Also no it isn't

Heh, you zoomers think you know "hard" with 1 pixel bullet hell nonsense. Try Galaga, that'll put you in your place.

>>6587785
>>6587789
SMART players do both? Score a couple of your favorites longterm and casual 1cc other games on the side.
If you like the shmup genre that's the best way.

>>6588117
Sounds like casual scum. REAL players play one game only.

>>6588086
I was under the impression that "shmup" meant mostly fixed, vertical, and horizontal scrolling shooters, and that shooting games where you can move freely are generally classified as "run n guns" or "twin stick shooters" or something along those lines

>>6588136
Twin stick just refers to the control scheme its still a shoot em up hence shooter. Theres shmups of all kinds, fixed, autoscrolling, manual scrolling, 2D, 3D, open ended, and more the genre was not historically limited to a very specific type of shooters some just became more popular than others. Run n guns are either shmups themselves, or some kind of hybrid between platformer and shmup, its mostly just a subset though some games are more about running than gunning so to speak.

>>6588150
Are Metal Slug and Sunset Riders a sort of shmup then?

>>6588191
I like to use the term run & gun because typical shooters auto scroll and have more freedom of movement, run & gun games are usually locked to your own pace and have things like physics limiting your freedom.

>>6588191
Yeah, shmup platformer hybrids. Commando inspired run n guns are basically just onfoot manually scrolling shmups

What is the best vertical shmup?

>>6588150
That makes the term shoot 'em up itself less convenient, doesn't it? No one starts a shoot 'em up thread to talk about Commando or Contra, they start a twin stick or run 'n gun thread because those are the more specific labels people use instead. "Scrolling shoot 'em ups" is a similar label, but no one uses it, they just call them shmups. There is a reason no one posted Metal Slug or so on ITT, it's because in practice "shmups" is something more specific.

>>6558120
>big fat piggies

bump

Deathsmiles is pretty hard with Casper. Maybe I should switch to an old hag?

>>6591304
I've 1cc'd it with windia and casper, so neither are out of the question (and I don't consider myself particularly great). The real trick is to get the hidden extend on the swamp stage, and learn how to trigger the hidden 2UP on Jitterbug (kill him without bombing). Those three lives should give you the bombs and resources necessary to clear. It's been a while but I didn't consider Casper to be particularly hard to use; I have a harder time controlling Rosa so I quickly gave up.

I don't know which mode you play but it might be good to have some levels purposefully as LVL1 or 2, I seem to recall the volcano being quite hard at LVL3.

>>6557014
Better question who started the "Trashure" meme?

>>6591686
same as jarpig
one man's seething, burning crusade

>>6591623
I've also already cleared the game with every character, but Casper is definitely the hardest to use. I want to play for score with her and it's tough.

>>6582410
>still no dimahoo ep
why

What are some more shmups like Darius Gaiden and R Type Delta? I couldn't get into a lot of what /vr/ recommends but those two really stood out to me

What's the difference between 1cc and 1-ALL?

>>6593774
Its not really a difference but rather a clarification. 1-ALL makes it clear that you only 1ccd the first loop of a multiloop game instead of 1ccing everything the game has to offer. In the context of a multiloop game just saying 1cc is ambiguous

What games on Fightcade you'd suggest for newcomers? I already tried Giga Wing.

>>6593613
G-Darius is an easy one to recommend. The best way to play it for free might be emulating the PS1 version right now; it'll get an HD release later this year, hopefully, for Switch and PS4.

Einhander feels similar to Delta in many ways and can be a pretty fun game.

The Thunder Force games are pretty classic; 4 is the best of them but 5 can a good time too (if you are sticking with 32bit). Since it seems like you are enjoying horizontals (I do too), maybe check out Tengai aka Sengoku Blade on MAME, as it's a very well-made hori with fun characters (and one cute/funny character).

why so many people like talk about tatsujin oh but no one try 2-all it lol? My question.

>>6594705
most people just try to get past stage 2.

>>6594705
>2-all
You're like a little baby. Grown men get 10 million points.

>>6594809
>Grown men get 10 million points.
show your points ok

>hey todd the maximum you can get on this game is 150,000
>fuck that i got 10 billion trillion

Is there a single shmup challenging enough for a player of Billy Mitchell's calibre?

>>6594836
A ton of shmups are on mame, his preferred cheating software

>>6594705
too busy playing caveshit and 2poo

>>6594665
Thanks anon, I'll check these out
>>6594646
Isn't Metal Slug on fightcade? That's a fun time with a friend

>>6595082
Oh yeah, I've played Metal Slug. I was asking for more "traditional" shmups. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this genre.

How do I play shmups without developing carpal tunnel syndrome?

>>6595174
Use auto fire, make 2 different auto-fire buttons so you can alternate fingers that hold it down. play shmups that don't require continuous fast movements (avoid Dangun Feveron), most shmups are very easy on your hands due to the auto-scrolling, due to auto-fire, and once you know your route you'll do less wasteful and pointless maneuvers and more efficient tap dodging.

>>6594925
What's wrong with Cave? Progear is really fun man

>>6595209
Auto-fire is cheating.

if only you play one shmup what shmup would you play ?

hey I'm looking for a shmup I saw years ago on TV
The gimmick was that you could carry two weapons and you could swamp and mix them.
Like you start with two peashooters but later you can change one of those peashooters for a bubble shooter.
I'm sure it was for PSX