/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6555521
Of course not you retarded faggot.

MGS is not solely responsible, but it did play a big role.

>MGS
>Movie game
Shut the fuck up.

>>6555521
You thought you could escape us making fun of you on /v/ huh? well *dabs on you*

>>6555586
>dabs
Go back to /v/ and stay there you retarded zoomer

>>6555521
Sure. As long as you discount all the cinematic experiences that came before it and all the games that literally had no gameplay other than walking around, talking to people. Oh, and also the games that you needed a VHS cassette to play that were literal movies and all the FMV games. But who cares about that when you can hoist false equivalencies on your favorite straw man?

>>6555521
Games were never ruined though. They just stopped making ones you like and or you got too old to appreciate new ones. Even now, in the era of TLOU2, there are still gameplay driven games. There's a full blown THPS remake as well as Crash Bandicoot 4 comming out this year for god sakes.

Hell, the FFVII remake has more actual gameplay and content than the original while also having more hours of story scenes. And I am in no way saying new games are better. I seriously feel like every era did things right and wrong. But gaming has never been "ruined".

Maybe you should just stop playing the huge AAA games.

Fuck off /v/. Nothing got fucking ruined, you're just only paying attention to shit you don't like. Fucking moron.

>>6555540
I was just gonna go with “no” but this is fine

It didn't create it but it made it massively popular to the idiot new "gamers" at the time who didn't realize games were supposed to have, you know, good gameplay and little or no story.

>>6555521
If MGS never existed, Sega wouldn't have made their own moviegame (Shenmue) in response, wouldn't have tanked from all the money they lost on it, and videogames would still be good.

Fuck MGS and fuck Kojima.

>>6555540
>>6555568
>>6555586
>>6555597
>>6555609
>>6555619
Unironically cringe answers, /vr/. And I thought you guys were based.

>>6555694
Shenmue was in development long before MGS1 came out you fucking moron.

>>6555696
keep seething, /v/.

>>6555701
MGS started development years before even Saturn Shenmue, your point?

>>6555609
Where are the good non triple A games? So tired of hearing that yet nobody mentions good indies. Every indie i play is just boring. Theres no personality. Or they rip off old games with no actual innovations of their own

>>6555521
>the movie game genre
This has always and will always be a huge fucking meme.

>>6555712
Go play Hollow Knight.
>inb4 it's shit for some reason

Cinemaware's games like Defender of the Crown and Wings are arguably the first "movie games".

>>6555728
You missed the bit where he said:
Or they rip off old games with no actual innovations of their own
Hollow Knight is indistinguishable from other Metroidvania titles. Also no, blatantly ripping off Dark Souls just like it ripped off Metroid doesn't count as innovation.

>>6555696
Stop talking in memes. You sound like a spoiled brat.

>>6555712
Cuphead, Ori and the Blind Forrest, Celeste, Streets of Rage 4, Hollow Knight, Crimzon Clover, Mega Man 9 and 10, Owlboy.

Streets of Rage 4 in particular is fantastic if you like beat em ups at all. One of the cool aspects is how you have the original Genesis characters. That's not just for nostalgia--it's functional. They have the same move sets as they did in their titles. So the SoR1 characters don't have as much going on in terms of specials and power attacks, BUT they get a bump in their damage to compensate.

This allows you to play SoR4 like a simpler 90s era beat em up. Or you can select a new character with deeper mechanics for a more modern twist. The difficulty is about the same but the styles are different--that's damn good design.

There are lots of playthroughs online with slow tank characters as well as fast ones who can run and dash across the screen. So the variety and how you approach the game is very diverse and will give you a lot of bang for your buck. And the comic book style graphics are badass too.

Some people complain about the bosses having lots of super armor and being janky but there's so many mania 1cc's that at this point it's kind of just a matter of getting good.

>>6555805
Hollow Knight doesn't reinvent the wheel in terms of gameplay, but the gameplay is still pretty much perfect and the aesthetic and atmosphere is ace. It's a modern classic for a reason, anon. If you can't see how those hand drawn graphics set it apart from the rest, you need to get your eyes checked. Where are these plethoras of modern metroidvanias that as good as HK?

As for the "ripping off" charge, I have to take issue with that. This comes down to inspiration vs derivation.

Dark Souls ripping off Metroid is just patently false considering it's a 3D game which completely alters gameplay, and the whole losing your souls/exp and having to go get them back where you died was a novel innovation.

>>6555893
(cont'd)

Now you could argue that HK using the exp retrieval mechanic from DS is derivative, but that's one small aspect of the game. Otherwise it plays completely differently. I mean, are you saying that if one game does something good and cool it can never be used again? Are game designers and artists not allowed to take inspiration from what came before? That seems like a pretty absurd argument to make.

If you're going to argue that something is derivative, you need to give some kind of specific example--particularly for a game like HK which has received tons of accolades and delighted millions of people. Otherwise you come across as a tiresome, bitter contrarian. But this is 4chan I guess, so there ya go. More good games for me I guess.

>>6555696
Kojima bad, Snoy bad, Xbox skeleton, Nintendo good, PC very good. Happy? Now go back.

>>6555805
I don't give two shits about 'innovations' or whatever the fuck. It's a good fun game and that SHOULD be all that matters, not however many 'it did this first!'s it has.

>>6555893
i dont like platformers or beatemups
and crimzon clover is a decade old

>>6556005
i dunno. why play a bad version of an old game with a less interesting style when i can just play the old game again. thats my attitude

No. Movie games were going to happen, I don't even think MGS did anything to accelerate that process, though it's understandable why it's sort of a poster game for that shift. And unlike those games, MGS is actually good.

>>6556014
>a bad version of an old game
Because it's not bad and has a great style?

>>6556012
Well tell me what you like, smookems, and dada will see what he can get his little tyke. Here's your bottle, too.

>>6556018
Hey did I say something to insult you? I apologize.

>>6556023
Lol. No worries. What kind of genres do you like? Favorite games of all time?

>>6555553
The only different thing MGS did for movie gaming was to make it rendered in engine

there were already movie games, they were adventure games, visual novels and square RPGs. MGS1-3 actually had its own unique gameplay too unlike modern 3rd person cover based movie game, and the first 2 were pretty arcadey and fun.

>>6555521
This is like saying that Ninja Gaiden ruin videogames by creating the movie game genre

>>6555521
>>6556167
Here is another movie game that was made before MGS by the same guy for you to seethe. And had much less arcade gameplay. But zoomers on /v/ don't know shit about retro gaming. If they did they would know that movie games have been legitimately retro since CD days. And what we have now to replace these movie games are online shooters and mobile games

As entitled as many people on 4chan tend to be, /vr/ sports some of the absolutely most entitled people anywhere. They have picky niche tastes and get genuinely offended that they aren't the center of the game development universe. When they see someone enjoying a game that doesn't appeal to them they don't have the normal human response of understanding the other person's joy, they simply see it as an affront to their own personal taste. It's ironic because they think they're making a deep point about how evil it is to cater to the masses, but really they just display that they have a diminished theory of mind and are genuinely mentally ill.

>>6556334
nice pasta

>>6556340
I've said things similar before, but that was just a stream. Watching people get triggered out the tits over silly shit like MGS ruining their perceived cultural foothold on video games never stops being funny though and probably one of the reasons I keep coming here.

>>6555521
Ocarina of Time is much more cinematic and did far more damage to the industry.

>>6556351
How?

>>6556458
unskippable cutscenes

>>6556465
The cutscenes in OoT are short enough that I am not bothered by them. The first time one plays through OoT they may find that the cutscenes are "interesting" and short enough to be tolerable while also driving the story forward. In MGS however, the cutscenes/codec calls are absurdly long, and anyone who appreciates a story has to watch the entire thing, despite being long and drawn out.

>>6556480
>The first time one plays through OoT
You're harkening to something I don't think anyone on this board will be able to do.

>>6556483
Not him but I find replaying even games without cutscenes boring. There's not a ton different you can do each time you play Gradius for example. People fume over quick time events, but games like that are just long quick time sequences.

>>6556490
Well if you play shit Games with shit gameplay and only good Story, of course you wont get anything out of replaying them and skipping the Story.

>>6556506
I don't like much story in games personally and am not a fan of MGS in any way but I'd still more often rather play it over Gradius given the option.

>>6555521
It did not by a longshot create the movie game genre. Not by over 3 decades maybe.
But it did take it to a new standard with all the character acting and all that.
It's a thing that would inevitably happen, but yes, I was sad when I found out the hard way that Resident Evil 7 was an interactive movie all along.
Gave up playing when the family at the table cutscene happens for like 25 minutes then all you have to do is play hide 'n seek with one fucking zombie for another half hour.
That's not what games are about in my opinion too, but hey, casuals will casual

>>6556239
Don't you dare compare that filthy early-3D action-adventure game with a title as immortal as Ninja Gaiden.
Let's not even start this

>>6556543
ninja gayden sux

>>6556545
Give you 100 bucks if you can beat the first stage, on original hardware, right in front of me.
I'll give you one weekend.

>>6556551
lol gayden fan mad

Yes, MGS kicked off 20+ minute cutscene and "acting" in video games.

>>6556527
Then you simply have terrible tastes what else is there to say

>>6555553
No it didnt. Mgs still had good gameplay and amazing boss battles. Now shenmue on the other hand definitely. Mgs had no qte

>>6555521
Blame Hideo Kojima. He's a faggot.

>>6555521
I don't have a problem with games that have cinematics, just "cinematic games"

MGS are gamey as fuck games that just happen to have a ton of cutscenes and I'm perfectly fine with this.

>>6555521
Any pretentious game that thinks it can put a deep story in the middle of a gameplay contributed in one way or another.

>>6556798
The mere concept of good versus bad taste is ridiculous.

>>6556334
based

There are many movie-like games pre-MGS.

>>6555521
How the fuck can so many people on a supposedly retro game board buy into the idea that Metal Gear Solid is the first "movie game"? You can bitch and whine about Kojima's game all you want but you're never gonna get any sort of intelligent discussion if you ignore history, but sure, you'll get people to say "game bad", great way to spend time.

Uncharted did, not Kojima. Now fuck off

>>6557130
I'm surprised Squaresoft and Enix don't get a lot more shit. Final Fantasy VII was advertised using the pre-rendered FMVs only in the west

>>6557248
Final Fantasy fmvs are not 15 minutes long though, at least back then.

>>6555540
Correct

>>6555521
>>6555553
That's like saying Alan Moore was responible for the grim dark, Liefeld and Zack Snyder.

The culprits are those who misunderstood and abused his work.

>>6556258
love how noone even bothers remarking on snatcher because it doesnt help their anti mgs narrative.

>>6555521

This is actually a very good question. I love MGS 1, but this could actually be true.

>>6555521
No because it wasn't an interactive movie like TLOU2. It had actual gameplay and the story was only presented like an action movie.

>>6555627
t. Shigero Miyamat

Thief sucks.

>>6558306
There isnt that much gameplay

>>6555521
It didn't create the movie genre, but it did play a big part in them becoming popular

>>6556334
Truth.

>>6556885
That's what someone with bad tastes WOULD say

>>6558332
You have never played Metal Gear Solid.

>>6558332
The long dialogue doesn't remove the gameplay it just adds to it you idiot. Motivates people to play the game by following the plot
>>6557809
Shills can't talk about Snatcher or other movie games because they were only trained to seethe to MGS

>>6558725
I've played the whole trilogy several times each

>>6558948
then beat european extreme and get the best rank. must be simple by your reasoning

>>6558956
Not him but that is unbelievably tedious. Starting MGS3 on european extreme as a challenge was one of the most dull gameplay experiences I've ever had it's nothing but passive pattern observation, waiting and generally very slow boring gameplay. Don't ever recommend that to anyone as defense of MGS' gameplay

>>6558963
It's fine to have an opinion on the gameplay alone. But it's retarded to blame it on long cutscenes as these hate shills do

Really nigga?

>>6558963
>waiting and generally very slow boring gameplay
That's how stealth gameplay is >>6558970

>>6558948
There are 5 MGS games...

>>6558963
extreme is the patrician's choice, game overs on alerts (=no dealing with fuck ups or variance) is retarded, just beat mgs3 extreme carefully running and gunning guards and got a pretty good lifebar at the end cause of the injuries, and it was challenging enough but not boring because of the alert game overs

>>6559037
4 and 5 arent worth

>>6559179
Filtered.

>>6555568
>S-shut up!!!
Go back to listening to your codex convos, retard.

>>6555521
Resident Evil did it first. No one complained.

>>6555783
Try Ninja Gaiden

>>6559462
Resident Evil had worse gameplay too. These shills got a hate boner for Kojimbo

>>6555521
I'd say FF7 played a big role as well, and by extension, 6 which for 1994 SNES standards was incredibly cinematic. Its popularity undoubtedly pushed Square to make 7 even more cinematic which then really hit the mainstream.

I routinely played MGS1-3 skipping cutscenes/codecs entirely. they're fun games.

Max Payne 3 is the first game I can recall where there's great gameplay, but the movie bits are forced and impossible to avoid which kills replayability.

>>6556543
>Don't you dare compare that filthy early-3D action-adventure game with a title as immortal as Ninja Gaiden.
I can because both were trying the same lol

The true movie game that started the downfall

>>6555521
Nope, it inspired thousands of game developers worldwide and only helped to improve video games in the long run. MGS is a masterpiece.

>>6555696
>Cringe
>Unironically
>Based
Oof my dude get yeeted senpai

>>6555712
baba is you
absolute drift
fight'n rage

>>6555712
If you l like puzzle platformers and insane difficulty, Rabi Laby.

>>6560072
Developer intent doesnt matter, the end result does

>>6555708
Both started development in 1996, get fucked faggot.

>>6555521
MGS1 as a game? No.
Kojima as a creator? Yes.

People love to credit all the things MGS did right to people like Kojima, even though it's worth noting that a lot of the stuff that was done right were by other people within Kojima's team (i.e. the military consultant, level designer, physics designer, etc).
Either way, Movie games existed even before Kojima. David Cage wasn't "inspired" by Kojima, he was already producing movie-games when MGS1 was also in production.
Besides, pretentious FMV CGI movie games already existed at the time. But MGS1 was not one of them. MGS1 still had gameplay, it's story was mere 90s Military Sci-fi comic book fluff that ultimately just turned it into a cheesy popcorn action game.
Ultimately, MGS as a franchise becoming a movie game franchise was because Kojima chose to reject what made MGS "MGS" over time. With MG1 he created a simple arcade-y "stealth" military game with MG2 he elaborated on the universe and gave it more sci-fi elements. MGS1 ensured it kept evolving, but decided to add focus on the story. MGS2 was around the time he chose to reject a lot of the cheese of MGS1 and decided to insert pseudo-intellectualist commentary on "muh society", with MGS3 he back-peddled only now replacing the cheese with retarded ebin Japanese humor and more focus on cutscene. We head to MGS4, pseudo-intellectualism mixed with shitty ebin humor, none of what made the original MSX games nor MGS1 what it is being intact gameplay aside. By PW and V it's unrecognisable.
Worth noting, after MGS1, he fired the English translator who supplied a lot of the 90s-era Cold War military commentary and fired many staff writers and general staff who didn't adhere to his "vision of MGS". His vision of MGS wound up being Death Stranding, the only thing holding him back were his staff and technical limitations, something he himself has said in his interviews.
MGS1 isn't bad, but Kojimbo is a shitty creator, that's all

>>6559462
How long were the cutscenes in RE?

'Movie games' have been around since he beginning. You have point and click shit, and stuff like Snatcher, etc. that were story line focused. Movie games are a scourge, yes, but they didn't start with MGS.

>>6561853
Death stranding is a fun game hindered by the fact kojima played it too safe and mgs2 is probably the best mg. But yeah it was obvious he didn't want to make anymore mg.

>>6562046
There are things I like about 2 but for me 3 is about perfect.

>>6562009
A bout a few minutes or a few seconds usually.

>>6555521
Complete fucking retard op

>>6562046
>Death stranding is a fun game hindered by the fact kojima played it too safe
Not really, Death Stranding feels like a direct downgrade from MGS in terms of both gameplay and story. I don't dislike people that enjoy it. But Death Stranding really is Kojima's idea of a movie game distilled at its purest. It's very clear Kojima lost interest in making cheesy tributes to his childhood like he did with MGS1 and Snatcher and just wanted to make movie-games. So all I am disproving is that MGS1 wasn't a movie game to begin with. Plus, seeing Kojima's character, I really don't like him as a creator, he really is way too full of himself.
>and mgs2 is probably the best mg.
Gameplay wise? Yeah. Story-wise? It's overrated. Especially by people that elevate it to seem smarter than it actually is. It's not a bad story, but people suck it off too much.

>>6555521
MGS was the first game I played where I was like this cutscene is long as fuck.

what about medal of honor? it was the first time movie people took an interest in games.

>>6562835
>But Death Stranding really is Kojima's idea of a movie game distilled at its purest. It's very clear Kojima lost interest in making cheesy tributes to his childhood like he did with MGS1 and Snatcher and just wanted to make movie-games.
The game is mostly walking. Really, there's 11 hours of cutscenes total but it takes 40 hours to complete the game and 100 hours to complete it with all sidequests. I don't think it makes any sense to call it a "movie game" when only 10% of the content is unplayable movie bits.

>>6562835
>ds is a movie game
Never got this
I enjoy ds on a pure gameplay level. Its really unique. My only problen is he should have gone further with the systems involved

>>6556258
>But zoomers on /v/ don't know shit about retro gaming.

and why should I? i grew with masterpieces such as oblivion, fallout 3, minecraft, really influential games. not some shitty obscure glorified VN by some hack

>>6555521
Night trap and ground zero texas exist, and I am sure there are other fmv games.
Everyone knows mgs became a movie with 4.

>>6555568
It's true

>>6555712
Hotline Miami

Metal Gear Solid didn't make movie games. Have you not heard of Plumbers Don't Wear Ties? Literal movie game.

>>6562598
t. Likes long cutscenes

>>6555712
Here's a hint anon.

Realize that AAA literally has no meaning. It doesn't mean anything. I could make a random shitpost in RPG Maker and call it AAA. It's entirely subjective and nobody has put a concrete definition on it because it wouldn't survive more than a few years. In addition to this, do not purchase any games by Ubisoft, Capcom, Konami, or EA unless they get stellar reviews from non-critics.

Realize that critic reviews (except ones who purchase their own games) are compromised due to a lack of regulation around threats of review copies being withheld to extort good reviews from critics. Naughty Dog is also shitlisted for forcing NDAs on reviews and hashing a lash-out campaign against critics, especially ones who pointed out that Abby's body (which was modeled on a genuinely fit and muscled woman) was hideously inflated in a grossly unrealistic manner that was anatomically impossible. Yes that means a professional athlete's body wasn't good enough for them, these are the same people who rant about unrealistic standards for women.

To actually answer your question would require me knowing what you actually like though.

>>6555805
Hallow Knight is nothing like Dark Souls outside of the "Collect your corpse" which predates both of them.