/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6505390
In Zelda, if you just collect rupies, then buy a key, then go to level 3 and go into the right room without any more keys or bombs, you're stuck. Can't escape.
Also in Super Mario Bros you can get Mario or Luigi stuck inside of a block prison.

>>6505390
What's the flaw? You were expected to explore.

>>6505390
Godzilla NES cause insanity.

>>6505390
>Godzilla NES can cause insanity.

>>6505390
The "revised" versions of Ocarina of Time don't let you step on the Muslim symbol.

>>6505403
You have to use the stepladder to walk over a river and bomb a specific wall tile. This is the kind of shit that makes the second quest as notorious as zoomers think the main game is. Still don't know if that's as bad as playing the recorder on random screens to open up one of the levels, though.

>>6505390
in street fighter 2 the world warrior you can't mirror match unless it's ken and ryu and kid chameleon has no save feature.

>>6505403
Oh, shut the fuck up. I'm sick of this mindset where people grossly embellish design that was obviously stupid because it was "intentional" (this means nothing).

>>6505390
Translation is dog shit. So most of the "hints" don't make sense.

>>6505390
Sonic 3 & Knuckles camera doesn't shift forward to match your speed like in Sonic CD.

>lose all your notes when you die or leave a level

>>6505390
Not what you posted, that's for damn sure.
>>6505637
zoom zoom

>>6505739
Good, BK is one of the few platformers where dying has actual consequence aside from just getting a meaningless game over. Permanent note collection in the ports just makes the game too easy and turns death into a fast travel to the level entrance.

>>6505637
Get good.

>>6505871
Rusty Bucket Bay tho

I'm really nitpicking since I think this is objectively the best game ever made, but if you want to go really fast, the combination of buttons you need to press is very annoying, since there's no remapping options that feel very comfy on the SNES controller. Having to jump just before going through some doors while holding 3 other buttons is ass.

>>6505637
I wipe my ass with your terrible opinion.

>>6505880
I find Super Metroid unplayable without that mod that makes the controls more like that of the titles released for the GBA.

>>6505390
imagine not growing up when this kind of thing was half mythical because gaming knowledge was often by word of mouth

>>6505880
>3 buttons
2 buttons. d-pad moving away from wall and jump when you want to walljump. it's extremely simple and well implemented

>>6505637
Listen anon all you have to be is an 8 year old in the eighties with 2 games (Zelda and Jaws) and infinite free time. It's not that hard to 'get'. You either bombed walls or watched the news with your drunk angry father.

>>6506007
kek

>>6505637
>embellish design that was obviously stupid
there is nothing stupid about Zelda 1 naive

>>6505905
how shitty do you have to be at vidya

>>6505390
Infinitely tall actors in Doom. Love the game to pieces, either with mods and .wads, or straight up the original game, but many collision detections ignoring to check for height just never sat right with me, even way back in the 90s. I'll accept it for playing vanilla, but turning it off is one of the best features which advanced sourceports give the player.

>>6505880
I managed to do this as a kid playing on a clunky and shitty keyboard 20 years ago, I beat the entire game like that, a few times even, and I don't know how I did that, the thought of doing platforming like that with keyboard keys make my fingers hurt.

>>6505519
I mean, the first quest was supposed to be the main gameplay experience.
They just noticed there was some space leftover for a second map so they made all the puzzles deliberately obtuse for funsies.

Why are so many young people so bad at video games

>>6506149
A life of casual spoon-feeding

>>6506149
Prosperity generates weak people

>>6505637
They implemented poor design because they expected people to read shitty maga and use the Nintendo hotline. They didnt perceive the gamer autism and word of mouth among kids at the time. Strategy for beating a lot of these games were akin to urban legend at the time. This game was beat by millions of kids talking about it at lunch tables and the backs of busses. It would have failed without socialization.

castlevania should start you off with the fully upgraded whip
this is why rondo is best castlevania

>>6506174
>They implemented poor design because they expected people to read shitty maga and use the Nintendo hotline.
Yes I'm sure the Japanese developers who made the game only designed it the way they did so that over two years after its release and one year after its NA release they could make extra bucks by getting kids to buy Nintendo Power and call in to the hotline. They had planned it all from the beginning, those crafty jerks.

>>6506238
yeah having the chode whip is dumb since you just immediately upgrade after 15 seconds every time

>>6506117
Amusingly enough this is harder with an XBox 360 controller due to the less precise D-Pad. So many times it registers as diagonal/the other button adjacent based on the slight tilt of the D-Pad.
Makes wall jumping a fucking chore if your fingers don't want to play nice on the rocker style pad.

Still insanely doable to the point were I can sequence break like a champ in randomizers for no gains because I'm not supposed to have to do those nutty wall jumps.

>>6506149
Newer games are less challenging, in most ways that's worse, in a few it's better, mainly with less pure rote memorization.

I think younger players are gradually recognizing that they've been babied too much, though, hence why games like Dark Souls and their ilk has become so popular, (to the point of a huge market of clones). Dark Souls isn't super hard or anything, but it expects you to learn and penalizes you for fucking up, which kids need.

>>6505905
Unplayable is a strong word, but I'm not gonna lie it did take a while to get used to.

>>6505390
>What are some flaws in otherwise perfect games?
For that one, a complete lack of information to further the quest.

Never was able to beat it as a kid because you reach the point where you'd have to bomb the entire overworld map looking for secret passages.

>>6505880
>wall jump
Jesus Christ I could barely accomplish that when I was at peak gaming proficiency back in the day. Tried it on my SNES classic and couldn't do it.

>>6506976
>Tried it on my SNES classic and couldn't do it.
That's due to the inherent lag emulation has. It's not bad to do on the real console.

>>6506980
>That's due to the inherent lag emulation has. It's not bad to do on the real console.
Yeah, I'll blame my shitty gaming skills on that issue, lol.

>>6506980
the lag is that bad on those mini consoles? played several times on emulator+LCD display and never had a problem.

>>6506995
4-7 frames. (real SNES has inherent lag at 1-4 frames)
>emulator
sorta depends on what emulator.
>LCD display
really depends which LCD.

>>6506980
I can do wall jumping just fine even with ZSnes, the timing is slightly different but it's not hard to adjust to it.

>>6505880
Both this and the Megaman X series feel so much better when playing on a keyboard, because you can map the dash button to an actually comfortable position and start zooming around the levels smoothly and effortlessly.

I don't know how they even expected people to play MMX3 on the SNES controller; the game expects you to be constantly dashing, jumping, dash-jumping, wall-dash-jumping, and air-dashing.

>>6506139
Yeah, that's how I feel too. I don't hold the second quest against the game, even if it's bullshit.

>>6505880
>Having to jump just before going through some doors while holding 3 other buttons is ass.
What did he mean by this?

>>6505986
>>6506117
>>6506976
>>6507805
>>6508303
I'm not talking about wall jumping. Some regular doors are on a different height than the rest of the room, so right when you wanna transition to the next room, you need to jump and shoot the door so you can get through without ever stopping. I have no issues with wall jumping.

>>6508315
Do you mean like for speedrunning?
What was the significance of this picture?

>>6508336
I suppose it's used in speedrunning, yes. I just googled a random picture for my post, didn't mean to imply it was about wall jump kek

>>6505880
>I think this is objectively the best game ever made
do you wanna elaborate or just keep pushing memes for a decade faggot?

>>6508524
That's not the point of the thread, and if by now you don't know Super Metroid properly you do not belong on /vr/.

>>6508608
>gatekeeping because no one believes a meme
you tell 'em.

>You find Maria in the second stage on the main path
That's absolute bullshit. Players should be forced at least play to stage 4 or 5 with Richter before finding Maria. She's such a fucking copout it pisses me off

>>6505637
Just because you are an idiot doesn't mean something is obtuse

Having to randomly place bombs on the 4 sides of every screen hoping you can find a random tunnel.

>>6508629
Back to doom containment thread nigger

>>6505905
My only problem with Super Metroid's controls is the weapon switching. Pressing Select half a dozen times to get the right weapon really fucking sucks. The manual running is a good feature, though.

>>6506139
They actually cut the game in half on accident but found a way to reuse the data and ideas.

>>6508638
Maria's on an optional path you won't even probably discover unless you fall down a pit, a thing you'd normally be trying to avoid, and unless you already have the key, you can't free her anyway. Also, most players probably just continued on as Richter since you can't swap characters in the middle of a run through the game.

>>6505390
Contra 3 overhead stages

>>6508785
>Optional path
Nope. She's in the required path you'll pass unless you fall in the pits
>Most players continued on Richter
That's likely false as well. So many people are absolute ass at the game they would run out of lives and see the "change character" option when they do. This post reeks of never having played the damn game

>>6505637
Pathetic zoomer.
>wah mommy i need minimap waypoints and gamefaqs

>>6508864
Oh fuck off at least give the player some kind of direction. A game is meant to be fun, not a fucking wall-bombing simulator

>>6505403
>you were supposed to buy strategy guides
fixed

>>6508790
thought those were fine

>>6506261
>chode whip
kek

>>6505401
the problem there is buying keys

>>6506007
Just change it to mother and you've encapsulated my childhood. Also add living in a 110 degree hellhole with nothing but a half broken swamp cooler. In such dire times you happily bomb every wall to distract yourself from the pain of life.

>>6505401
That's why you can reset the game or use the exit menu to continue/save/retry.

NES LoZ. Unbeatable without a goddamn walkthrough. Speaking of walkthroughs, which Nintendo Power had one for LoZ?

>>6506261
Fun fact: there are people who played CV enough that they could beat it without whip upgrades

>>6508790

Wrong. Those were awesome.

>>6505418
I'm more concerned about the better fire temple track and also the blood being edited on ganondorf. Didn't they also change the mirror shield?

>>6510225
It's like those guys that do swordless LoZ runs. Yes it's possible, but only for the clinically insane.

>>6505820
>>6505874
>>6505887
>>6506082
>>6508646
>>6508864

Imagine being so blinded by your nostalgia that you get triggered this hard, I swear the actual boomers on this board are the most sensitive little fucks on this whole site

>>6510232
I think whoever pores over every reply that says things they don't like then has a little fit about it is the one who's sensitive.

>>6510274
>has a little fit
no one here is having a fit. he's just posting

>>6510293
I don't think he's just posting, seeing as he's said "shut the fuck up" and some other aggressive posts. It seems to me he has a chip on his shoulder and is looking to pick a fight.

>>6508646
There is nothing to figure out. There's no hint, not even a hopelessly cryptic one.

>>6508638
Well yeah, she's the game's easy mode. The option is given early on to either play the rest of the game as a man or play as the little girl with OP animal pals. It's Konami's way of making the player feel emasculated for not taking the challenge fairly. Richter even laughs during her introductory cutscene when she offers to help him. Giving the option later on wouldn't make sense since by then, the player would likely be discouraged to play as someone they're not familiar with.

>>6505637
My friends and I figured this out as kids without a guide. Maybe you should play games that force you to challenge yourself so you stop being a whiny bitch.

>>6510013
Just going by memory, I could have sworn it involved buying a key. I think I managed to use the key somewhere in level 3 and then somehow getting stuck, but you may be right.
>>6510229
>I'm more concerned about the better fire temple track and also the blood being edited on ganondorf. Didn't they also change the mirror shield?
Fun fact, that Muslim prayer chant is on at least one more game, a racing game, but I forget the name or what it's on, but it's by Nintendo I think. It might be another N64 game.
And yeah, they chaged the shield to be some generic pattern that sucks. To me the shield is the Muslim symbol and it isn't. I mean, they don't own the moon, but it is what it is.

Also keep in my that Nintendo had the final "edited versions" of OoT ready *before* the gold cartridges were shipped. You read that right.

>>6510212
>That's why you can reset the game or use the exit menu to continue/save/retry.
I hadn't thought of it that way. Makes me wonder if that kind of thing is more common in the game than I know.

>>6510663
*got stuck

That OoT thing is conformed with the cart tilt debug code btw.

I always used to think the muzzie prayers chants were native American chants, but there you have it. The alternate one sounds ok, but incomplete. Not agreeing with Islam, but that chant sounded creepier and thus better for the game's context.

>>6505739
Dude it’s the only difficulty of the game. I was so disappointed to discover that the xboxlive version of banjo got nerfed hard on that.

Silent Hill 1

>The School and Hospital sections drag on a tad too long

>The R1 and R2 strafe actions are too slow to ever, ever be useful unless you basically play the game dark souls style. This is something every single future game in the series fixed except origins which didn't have enough buttons to.

>The Zodiac Puzzle. It's not even really a flaw, it's just very, very easy to overthink it and start looking up zodiac shit when the answer is really simple.

>The Boss does die if you show you have no ammo in all of your weapons, but if you run out of health items, you are fucked and basically need to do the thing only getting hit once or twice.
This is do-able though. I spent two days over at my friend's house doing it, and the time when I finally got the final killing blow in right before a killing blow that would have axed me. That is one of my best feels in retro vidya.

Also got the good ending too.

>>6508790
I remember playing with my brother and having a blast until this shit, we couldn't figure it out where to go, we ended up playing something else

>>6511069
God this section sucks so much ass. It's not even a bad idea, it's just the FOV is way too small and it's way too easy to fall off the stage or run into mines.

>>6506998
If we're getting into single digit frame lag it's the game's fault.

>>6508692
> Pressing Select half a dozen times to get the right weapon really fucking sucks.
This is unfortunately an inherent problem of controllers. Alien Trilogy was most recent game I had this problem with, and it pays to keep yourself on the shotgun so you can switch to the pulse rifle quickly, as they're probably the 2 most effective weapons, and the shotgun is a hitscan unlike every other gun in the game.

>>6508661
>>>/v/ faggot

>>6507805
Just remap the controls on a gamepad.

>>6511334
Seethe

>>6508629
There's literally nothing wrong with gatekeeping, it ensures you have standards in your community.

>>6508661
Doom is objectively the best game ever made, and it's a shame that you're ignorant of that.

>>6511968
>butthurt that your favorite game isn't considered the best
>it's a doom nigger
Like clockwork.

>>6511043
nah, those aren't the real flaws in silent hill 1
>hammer too OP
>way too easy to miss the red liquid and kauffman's sidequest

>>6505390
Zelda 1: screen transitions
Super Metroid: door transitions, item fanfares
Quake 1: framerate dependent physics

>>6511968
How is doom the best when Duke 3d is 100 times better?

>>6511981
You already have someone in this thread saying Super Metroid is the best, cracker.
We own you.

>>6512023
Strong argument, because Duke Nukem 3D is a genuinely excellent game, but I think the overall b-movie horror and heavy metal album cover aesthetics of Doom, and its more varied monster roster with its infighting feature, makes it overall better.
Monsters don't infight in Duke Nukem 3D (aside from the rare instance of a Protozoid Slimer eating a Pig Cop, or if you're lucky, a Battle Lord), and that's slightly less fun.

>>6512016
>framerate dependent physics
I don't think I've ever noticed them.

There should have been one or two levels where you go through the Flying Croc before facing the final boss.

enemies that spawn right in front of you

>>6506149
I dunno why were YOU so shit at videogames when YOU were ten years old?

>>6512023
Duke 3D is superior to Doom based solely on the total conversions that were done for it.

Starship Troopers TC and Platoon TC were amazing.

>>6511043
>>6512001
funny
I beat this game for the first time last night, and the only flaws I can agree with are the good ending requirements. It's Cave Story tier.
Also, don't forget the voice acting.

I might give it another go in the future after I'm done with the other games. I loved it.

>>6511968
>baby's first pc game
>best
Why is this place so plebian?

>>6505880

>objectively
>best

Know how I know you're illiterate?

The left ramp on Twilight Zone only does one thing. Usually you want each shot to do more than one thing. Especially the ramps.

And there's some minor score balancing that could be done. Like the points for getting a Dead End are pretty small, I think.

>>6505390
Games like this were made to probably sell Nintendo Power. They'd have an issue that has the revealed map.

>>6513102
I did have someone who knew about it ahead of time so that helped. It's become so infamous in the SH community that it's become common knowledge.

>>6513543
Issue #1 had the full map for the second quest.

>>6512316
Have you not seen the TC's done for doom since then?

>>6513220
I know you're seething, simmer down honey.

>>6513195
Plutonia makes Doom the best game ever made. Cope.

>>6510232
>Imagine being so blinded by your nostalgia that you get triggered this hard, I swear the actual boomers on this board are the most sensitive little fucks on this whole site
imagine mass replying to everyone who hurt your buttox and telling them they're salty instead of laying out your argument in easy to understand detail

before everyone of your zoomer clan were born with inherent adhd boomers were fresh on the scene eager to see what the game had in store

instead of grinding for levels in MMOs as a surogate for a social life, we were trying to uncover all the secrets to our favorite games so that we were the talk of the playground

but like I can empathize with missing out, all you guys have is $60+30 for the latest pokemon which is still split into physical versions to "get you guys trading" or whatever bullshit they spew
even though you guys use worldwide wireless internet to trade you still swallow hook line and sinker

>>6512048
A fucking gorilla named donkey, of all things. The retarded devs probably thought mixed up monkey and donkey.

>>6506110
Fucking this! John Carmack's biggest fuck up, thankfully Heretic wich came in 94 didn't have infinitely tall actors.

>>6514354
lmao zoomie.

Rayman requiring all the cages smashed before beating the game.

>>6514640
Your post gave me a nice chuckle. Thanks anon.

>>6514756
It was a deliberate choice for performance, and the first game uses verticality very little, but I still don't care for it.

>>6514757
Please, millennial.

>>6514772
i never turn off rayman without smashing all instances of something else, either

>>6512316
What a clueless pleb. Douk Cuckem 3D might be the better game but Doom's modding comunity is far superior.

>>6505390

Head over Heels was based on the idea that each character had abilities that only allowed them to do one half of each level, usually remerging for the last part. In a bug that took me way too long to replicate here though, you can make Head fly up the wall and remerge them to just do only Heals route and do it way faster. Kinda ruined the game once you knew it.

>>6508790
Well they cut them out of the GBA version.

>>6511043
>>The School and Hospital sections drag on a tad too long
That's what makes them memorable, all other sections are too short.

>>6513102
All you have to do to get the Good ending is complete the Kaufmann sidequest, which isn't really out of the way if you're the explorer type.

>>6512238
i was probably better honestly

You could completely remove her from the game and it would be a net gain.

>>6505390
Framerate in Perfect Dark.

Fucking hell.

>>6516938
Best character for finding rare items

>>6517706
Rare item finding is based on your Bravery stat, just nuke Ramza's bravery and go to town.

>>6516938
But muh rape backstory.

>>6505661
I will agree with this

Draygon's time wasting attack animation in Super Metroid.

>>6517735
Sounds hot.

reported, saged
#banvideogames

>>6506149
Graphics technology became the focal point for marketing and games needed to be easy to make more money by getting more people to play them.

>>6506149
>>6519897
>>6506490
What these guys said, but escapism is supposed to be fun. You grew up in an unfortunate time, when at first, all games were literally P2W, and had only one purpose: extract those shekels from your pockets. Sure, the purpose remains today, but you have to admit that back in the day, some tactics the devs employed were incredibly shady and scummy. When they made the switch to home systems, the games retained their difficulty, because
1) Neither devs nor players knew any better
2) You can't fit a lot of content into an NES, so they had to extend the playtime artificially.
Sure, this honed your skills, but it also meant you had to play a single retarded fucking game over and over just to finish it, which was perfect when all you had was your grandma's old fucking CRT.
In terms of challenge and fun, I think the SNES era is perfect.
Anything after that is actually pretty easy, I don't know what you're talking about.
Sure, you felt like a badass after completing the challenge, but it's so weird to hold on to an outdated entertainment standard that was actually so stingy about giving you said entertainment. You guys are mixing up challenge and fun.
If you want an interactive experience, you play games. If you want challenge, you play competitive. It is literally the perfect challenge. You're not playing against some retarded AI or cheap instakill deathpits, you're up against another human.
Kids are actually pretty good today, excluding console players.
Back then, there was no choice. Now you can pick what you want. But the games were good, man. Some fine games were made from the SNES era to 2010s. I can't name more than 100 good AAA games released after that, it's all just utter fucking shit.

>>6520648
Interesting takes, though I'm not sure I fully agree. Arcade games were about siphoning quarters out of kids, sure, but to do that really effectively the game has to have a good draw, by being fun to just play, by being an entertaining spectacle, or both.
An arcade machine without any draw isn't going to be pulling a lot of coins, even games with mediocre or subpar gameplay would be made with that understanding, and there would be an attempt at having some sort of edge or quirk, otherwise the kids wont come back for more or tell their friends.

>>6505390
I think Mega Man X would be perfect if you started with the dash. Being forced to either do Penguin first or go slow as fuck is kind of lame. I guess it'd also be cool if the boss weakness animations were a bit less retarded but weapons are for pussies so I'll let it slide.

The shit anticlimactic 4/6 in super Mario rpgs.

>>6510663
>To me the shield is the Muslim symbol and it isn't. I mean, they don't own the moon,
SAUDI PRINCE: I'd like to buy one the Moon.

reported and saged let me bump off my last remaining comment on this website and then I will stop posting forever

4

>>6505390
Pic very fucking related.

>>6522262
I can think of a few things wrong with this game

>>6507805
Just set dash to R?

>>6511043

he is right. SH1 is a masterpiece, but far from perfect

>>6505519
No. Faggots like Link to the Past because it shows wall cracks. Might as well not even bother because anyone can see the wall cracks.

late to this thread but in Baldur's Gate 2 there is not enough foreshadowing of Suldanessellar or the Tree of Life. The game's world is littered with books about different parts of Faerun, it's history, Gods etc but there is almost nothing about these absolutely critical elements of the storyline, so that when do you eventually find out what Irenicus is up to, your reaction is less "holy shit!" and more "huh? who?".

>>6521737
lol too true.

>>6505880
>>6508315
you know you could just build up the speed, wait until you're glowing, crouch, then you hold the jumping charge and get to walk around with a super jump for a few seconds

>>6523265
I think that's why I liked The Iron Throne's and Sarevok's scheming better, it's pretty straightforward and you do actually learn the lore around it as you go, even if "Koveras" feels like a very clumsy addition to the story, and any character who isn't like 5 Int should be able to call that bluff pretty much on the spot. At least you can hold on to that ring and give it back to him in Throne Of Bhaal, even if the game doesn't notice that at all and you're just doing that for RP reasons.

Shadows Of Amn's greater strength is all the sidequests and dungeon crawling, and the long chase after Irenicus, as a villain he's just a bit 'undercooked' though. It doesn't have all the fun wilderness exploration of Baldur's Gate though, I loved roaming the countryside and finding little mini quests and weird encounters, though it's well done, Shadows Of Amn confines most of that stuff to the city of Athkatla.

I also really like that Baldur's Gate and Tales Of The Sword Coast are relatively low fantasy, feeling comparatively like more 'grounded medieval' and goes mostly by Advanced Dungeons & Dragons rules at a low level, with Shadows Of Amn and Throne Of Bhaal then being like halfway to 3rd edition, like some sort of 2.5, or 2.6 Dungeons & Dragons, with a much more exotic and higher fantasy setting, level scaling upwards much higher. I really like that progression.
Playing Baldur's Gate with the later class kits and bags of holding and other stuff like that, and various tweaks, is pretty fun though, I must admit, can't Charm or Paralyze an Enraged Berserker, you motherfuckers.

>>6523531
Different guy, but I fucking suck at shinesparking, I always fuck it up, so I prefer walljumping.

>>6523160
>it shows wall cracks. Might as well not even bother because anyone can see the wall cracks.

A Link to the Past is the definition of soulless when put next to The Legend of Zelda. I can't even stand the looks of ALttP.

>>6523621
A Link To The Past and Link's Awakening are the only Zelda games I ever really liked.

>>6506007
Kek

>>6523621
It's baby tier garbage but people dickride it cause it has super nintendo bonus points

>>6523750
I've tried Link's Awakening on a competent emulator for a bit and I was impressed; I do want to finish LA now either on real hardware through a GC GB player or otherwise. It's a good game, very deep it seems for a GB game too and generally has a nice feel and graduates the exploration and challenge evenly, so far for me.
ALttP, I understand just about everyone loves it, but some games just rub me the wrong way with their looks and that's one of them. Nothing looks good to me in that.

t. playing the second quest of Legend of Zelda for the first time ever in all seriousness and without a guide.

>>6523756
Except for a few games on the SNES, that I do own, it's not one of my favorite consoles, not even close. It has maybe ten games that I love and that's it. For me. It's more of a RPG console anyway, isn't it?

>>6506007
That brought some memories back. lol'd hard

Diablo 2 - very limited options of end-game gear to make elite characters with

>>6523774
I love and hate Diablo 2, it's a fun adventure on Normal, but then it becomes a protracted MMO grindfest if you keep playing.

>>6505390
Here's a tip for bombing the walls in The Legend of Zelda for our Zoomer brethren here:
When you place bombs on walls-in dungeons or in the overworld-place the bombs between the individual tiles, that way you'll save bombs. You don't need to place the bombs square on each individual tile; the blast points will open up anyway and you'll cover twice the area and in less time with less bombs.

>>6520864
My thing I do half the time now is use the password that gives you nothing but the dash, so you skip the intro stage too. This lets you run the game much cleaner overall since you can now start with Storm Eagle and then go to Flame Mammoth.

>>6523819
I never really minded doing Chill Penguin first desu, he's easy and I'm gonna need those boots anyhow.

>>6523889
I don’t know that I “mind” it so much as I just like variety.

>>6505390
Reminder you're an ADHD zoomer if you couldn't beat Zelda 1 without a guide. If you've ever played another Zelda to completion in your life it will be the easiest by far.

>>6505876
Just do the engine room first.
Wish kid me had realized this...

>>6506149
Game design has gotten better

>>6507805

Lol I thought I was the only one who prefered keyboard, nice.

>metroid
>creatures move through door transitions when they shouldn't

>>6524036
Funniest /vr/ post of the year.

>>6523756
It's also more fun to play

>>6524006
There's people who couldn't beat it without a guide back when the game was new.

>>6524036
In what sense? That's such an incredibly broad statement to make that it doesn't mean a lot.

Are graphics better? On the technical level, absolutely we can do almost whatever we want with 2D and 3D, long gone are limitations inherent to old 2.5D engines, where things like true room over room geometry were often not possible, and needed to be simulated through trickery. A bigger question would be, is visual design better? Looking at some 21st century games, some are very good, but many are very mediocre or even quite bad, so you can't flatly say that newer games are consistently better.

>>6524036
For audio, I could pretty much reiterate, except limits grew exponentially ever since CD-rom came around for games, and we already had hardware reverb and stuff in the late 90s. I would like to argue that the ability to have full voice acting has led to some excess, where some games are most of their 'weight' in audio, to very excessive degrees, in part this is to blame on audiophiles who insist in crisp and perfect sound with no loss at all, even though 98% of the audience can't tell as long as it's not compressed and downsampled like Half-Life. Excessive voice acting also takes away from budgets and production, does some random shopkeep somewhere really need his own full set of voice lines? Can't he make do with a few generic ones and then do the rest of it in text?
Looking at a game like Morrowind, it had a fair bit of voice acting, but 90% of it was generic lines and all dialogue was handled with text, the game is still immersive on that point, then look at its followup, Oblivion, where Bethesda insisted on voicing EVERYTHING, but did so very poorly, with a limited amount of actors, employing limited ranges, and as a result most of the voice acting in the game provides zero immersion. Another good example of not running away with the voice acting is the Baldur's Gate games, probably over half of the voiced lines are generic situational ones, but it leaves more than enough room for voicing important plot dialogue and the more interesting lines.

I don't think going heavy on the voice acting is even bad, it's suitable for many kinds of games, but devs should really ask themselves; does the audio really need to be technically perfect, do you actually lose anything by compressing it a little bit? Further, is it actually necessary to allocate very big parts of your budget on famous movie stars, when you don't actually have a great idea for using them, particularly when many movie stars don't actually know how to *voice* act, and deliver subpar performances?

>>6524036
For controls, we have some pretty decent gamepads these days, and have arrived at some good conventions and standards, but have you noticed how quite a lot of games don't let you make your own binds anymore? In many console releases you get a set of preconfigured setups you can pick between, and no freedom to remap, some have only 3 of even less. It's quaint when just 10 years ago, releases like Fallout New Vegas let you bind whatever action you felt like to whatever button you felt like, even on consoles.

>>6524036
On programming, I want to say that it has become worse in ways, today we have a lot of good conveniences like ready baked engines you can license, with mountains of support and documentation, such as Source and Unreal, and practical utilities such as Speedtree, and I think that's not bad at all. However, many programmers end up not really learning more than the basics of the engine they licensed, and develop very little problem solving skills, when faced with unexpected limitations or errors, they don't always try to resolve them, instead letting those issues limit them and then sweeping it under the rug or settling for an inferior workaround.

You also have the issue of bugtesting, where either the devs are lazy, or the publisher demands too strict deadlines, and games get released in buggy states, often with the justification "We'll patch it"
Patches are not evil inherently, we patched games in the 90s too, but it's frequently used as a very bad crutch, and more and more people are settling and accepting paying to be late beta testers.

Back in the day, if a game released very buggy and you then didn't put any effort into fixing it, you were probably fucked and your sales would be bad, unless the core of the game was just REALLY good, these days a game can be a mess at launch and still make great profits patching as much as a month after launch, still often missing critical problems, and EA will STILL rake in hundreds of millions.

>>6524036
Now lets look at level design, and I'll focus on first person shooters because they're popular, and to narrow things down.

These days, there's generally three big ways levels are done; mostly linear experiences assembled out of premade chunks and relying heavily on scripted setpieces, then there's procedurally generated ones made with genericized premade chunks, then you have the bigass and non-linear free roaming sandbox.

Except for procedural generation, which is complete dogshit for FPS, I think linear setups like that, and big freeroams, can both be very good, but have you noticed how little divergence there is from these trends? Not a lot of shooters now do like Quake or Duke Nukem 3D, where there's a start and finish, and its open ended and can be done not necessarily in a strict order, but also isn't so open as to be aimless or unfocused, the closest you get is your free roaming sandbox containing instances of mostly linear levels.

There is not a lot of diversity in FPS level design these days, it tends to be about the two big formulas, and seldom are levels particularly abstract.

>>6524036
Challenge, again on FPS; how many games bother to put real effort into that today? The answer is actually a lot more than you think, yet big AAA releases often aren't all that good at it.
Things like always regenerating health usually means health is no longer a resource you have to manage, to scavenge and look for, to be careful and wage risks with. If you fuck up and take a bad hit, you can either run away and hide and it stops being a problem, and just try again, or keep dodging until it regenerates, you're not forced to have to use inventory, to backtrack to where you know some health is, or outright attempt to push through with what little you have left (in which case success feels particularly rewarding).

Enemy AI isn't always that amazing either, many games are content to frequently run you down linear paths with barriers to take cover behind (often with a dedicated button press sticking you onto the cover), and the resulting gameplay is you and the enemy ducking in and out of cover, taking turns shooting, with some games leaving the enemy partially exposed anyway, making his cover moot.
Look back to Doom, the enemy AI is dumb as all shit and will mindlessly walk under a hydraulic press to get you, and they are exploitable like that, but they're also 100% aggressive, unless they're walled in or otherwise forced to stay in one spot, they will ALWAYS attempt to advance to your position, they will never hide behind cover. You the player can take cover, and that sometimes makes a lot of sense, but the enemies wont wait for you, if you stay there they'll be trying to come visit, and then you need to act.

Is the AI retarded and lacks tactics and never engages in abstract actions? Yes, but isn't this also a lot more fun than a mindless shooting gallery where there's very little consequences for acting slowly?

I'll add that I will give FromSoft due credit for teaching kids that it's fun to face adversity and having to learn how to overcome it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think Dark Souls is evidence that Zoomers are not all doomed to be handheld casuals, there ARE many kids out there who want challenges to best, and that there IS hope.

>>6525763
>>6525784
>>6525814
>>6525839
>>6525887
Pure autism

>>6523160
I like it. Knowing there are wall cracks makes me long for the moment I return and bomb the shit out of those walls.

>>6524036
This. Because of good game design you don't have to autistically play a 2-hour content game for 20 hours in order to beat it, thus you never have to get "good" at games. Nowadays games are only as challenging as they need to be, instead of being as challenging as they must be to justify the price tag. All in all this means that modern games are not just better designed and cheaper, but more fun too.

>>6505905
I’m thinking of playing SM for the first time soon, should I use this mod?

>>6525893
You are mistaken. People love Dark Souls not because it is challenging, but because it is good and fun. Most 80s videogames are not good nor fun, hence people aren't interested in the challenge they offer. Dark Souls is yet another example of modern videogame design: if it's fun, people will like it.

>>6505390
Conker's Bad Fur Day multiplayer still holds up but if I recall correctly you have to re-enter the codes to unlock characters everytime you start the game.

>>6526416
I can only relate with that for Ocarina of Time, but it's such a long haul to bomb them again so it seems fresh by that time.

>>6522262
What a shitload of fuck

>>6510232
not an argument

Xenogears Second Disc

>>6525727
Yeah they’re called zoomers

>>6526423
It's no coincidence that the most revered retro games are also the most beatable.

>>6526638
Exactly. They are "beatable" (as in, people have beaten them) because they are also the most enjoyable and worth beating. There's no shame in realizing this, but some people really think that all games must be like Ninja Gaiden's 6th level.

>>6505637
You're right.

>>6515618
autist

>>6505390
I'm playing shadowrun and honestly the only flaw I can find is that the combat kind of sucks because moving a mouse cursor with a d-pad is gross.

>>6516938
What game is this from?

>>6527267
Final Fantasy Tactics, Rafa and Malak are two children who wield powerful magic as their base classes, but it's extremely unreliable due to it hitting completely random panels (not targets) within its AOE. Because of this most people don't bother with them once they're recruited.

Most annoyingly she's got a stage right after a very difficult stretch of the game where you have to keep her alive. Your opponents? Two assassins with 100% death and petrify abilities and a very powerful samurai. If she died there, all you would've lost out on is her and Malak who is equally useless.

>>6525763
>>6525784
There are very few times in modern games where deaths or screwups were due to faults in the game controls. And those few times were in Bunny Must Die which takes a lot of getting used to. Still...

> but have you noticed how quite a lot of games don't let you make your own binds anymore
As a mildly disabled gamer, yes I have (Symbrachydactyly, specifically I don't have an index or middle finger on my left hand). I have refunded games on the spot because I can't rebind the controls to accomodate it. If a simple FPS like Doom allowed it in the 90s, your game from 2020 can allow it. No excuses. I've actually considered writing a few letters to disability advocates and have it be considered discrimination against the disabled to not allow full controller rebinding. In the industry's rush to be inclusive to gays, ethnics, and transpeople they have completely forgotten those of us who have actual difficulties.

>>6525887
Regenerating health isn't as powerful as you think it is. It's actually balanced for multiplayer which is the meat and potatoes of those games, and in that you see that it works extremely well.

>>6526381
No, fuck you, stop being threatened by the idea of having to read. I bet if I put a tranny in a game you liked you would make a rant five times the length of that.

>>6526381
Pure ADHD.

>>6526624
>zoomers
>1986
Do you not breathe with your nose?

>>6505637
You're correct and congrats on triggering the babies on this board.

>>6527816
>I don't have an index or middle finger on my left hand
That's a pretty serious disability for videogames, I assume it must be unbelievably frustrating when there's no way to optimize your controls.
My complaint was more about comfort and expedience, not having to needlessly learn all new control schemes for games which aren't even different from another, but your complaint is much more poignant, you might not even have the option to adjust to a new scheme, like I do.

I assume that must make emulation the most attractive approach for a lot of games?

>I've actually considered writing a few letters to disability advocates and have it be considered discrimination against the disabled to not allow full controller rebinding.
I'm not usually in favor of forcing people to do something through the law, but this would be trivial work and devs shouldn't be fucking lazy, and also fuck you for making me jump with Triangle and crouch with X, double fuck those devs which swap analog stick functions and don't let you fix it.

>It's actually balanced for multiplayer
Maybe it makes more sense there, I really don't play modern games in multiplayer, but I still feel that health is better treated as a resource, or requiring the player to carry out some kind of action, meaning it's not as easy to abuse.

>>6527143
If there was ever a game that should have had mouse support, it's Shadowrun on the SNES.

>>6527901
>That's a pretty serious disability for videogames
You don't really use your ring and pinkie finger for controllers though you do have to hold it rather awkwardly, but you can get used to anything. Using L1 and L2 with those is my normal. Of course WASD is a bit of a pain but I can map any button on my mouse to a key if I want to.

People who think that accessibility involves adding cheat modes or low difficulty are the kinds of people that cause special needs kids in schools to "blow up over a single comment". I don't need that shit, I need to be able to map the controls without being questioned.

>>6506007
That was a weird pang of nostalgia

>>6505637
You are correct. There's nothing wrong with having to look for shit but there's a line.

>>6505390
In Abe's Exoddus several times meat sacks give you rocks instead of meat chunks, but the animals will eat the rocks like they're meat.

>>6506007
This is someone who grew up in the NES era.

>>6508868
>zoom zoom has to resort to wall bombing everything instead of reading the manual

>>6527804
Damn, how could I not recognize Rafa?
And I hated that stage, it was by far the hardest part of the game after Velius/Belias and the final boss.

>>6527919
Isn't index finger the one you point with?

>>6528632
Yes

Yfw Zelda 2 saved the series
Then A Link to the Past ruined it

>>6505637
People will rip into you, but you are more or less correct. There's a lot of post-hoc reasoning here. People liked Zelda so they say even these objectively bad design bits of it are good
Legend of Zelda is a great game, but it's not so due to its no-hint obscure puzzles. If the design was intentional, it was done so to waste time and/or get kids to shell out for the nintendo hotline, power, or strategy guides.

>>6505390
instantly respawning enemies

>>6529445
In what? Enemies only respawn in LoZ if you move (I think) 4 screens over.

>>6524006
By "to completion" do you mean 100% the entire game? Because doing it is quite a chore.

>>6520864
Agreed. That's why I prefer X2 slightly. Also the air dash is awesome.

>>6529848
I think he means just in general, and I'd agree, it can (at least in some games) be really cheap and frustrating to blast or whack some goon, only to have a new one take his place, in the same damn spot even.

>>6530136
To completion meaning you beat Ganon

>>6511968
>objectively
Doom is a pretty good game but get the fuck out, you autistic faggot. Maybe even play more games while you're at it

>>6506238
The only flaw Castlevania has is there should have been a checkpoint after the medusa gauntlet and before Death, then you wouldn't have to cheese that shit with the holy water.

>>6530136
>Because doing it is quite a chore.
I'd agree on the second quest, but the first quest, except for level 9, is easy.

>>6505880
>people actually had a problem with this
I don't even... Samus even had a little pose when it was ok to wall jump. How could people possibly have had a problem with this

>>6531505
I remember being annoyed and it took like 5 or 10 minutes and I didnt really learn to wall jump at the time. Now it's simple as anything, even on an lcd.

>>6524036
Indeed. The Wonderful 101 is the culmination of decades of game design.

>>6531281
If he means also finding all the heart pieces and other hidden secrets without a guide, I could see that becoming a chore.

>>6532204
The overworld isn't that big.

>>6510229
The build date of OOT 1.1 predates distribution of 1.0 so it’s likely nintendo picked it up and it wasn’t muslin faggots crying

>>6505390
crosscode
you are forced to dash constantly because its faster than walking

>>6510663
The muslim chanting was in a ton of games. There was even an xbox fighter that used it

>>6506149
Game developers realized that you can easily lead the player with pop ups and constant reminders. This makes the player passive like a zombie. Problem is with years of such conditioning if there are no guide lines or map markers the players get frustrated instead of exploring on their own.