/vr/ - Retro Games

For me its Faceball. You should try it.
Your face my balls.

>>6484067
Wolf 3D's minigun is so much better than Doom's. Doom's minigun does pitiful damage and slow rate of fire, honestly it's so weak and shitty it deserves to be called a submachine gun. Wolf3D's minigun destroys anything in a split second.

>>6484246
I agree, maybe they nerfed because of the greater amount of doom weapons

>>6484246
Doom's chaingun is good for taking out groups of weaker enemies. Also satisfying.

But who cares about the Wolf3D chaingun when you have the super shotgun and BFG at your disposal?

>>6484246
Wolf3D's minigun is not that good really. In order for it to do enough damage to justify the ammo it uses you have to be up close, close enough that a single machinegun shot (consuming only one bullet) will do the exact same job. Only in very specific clusterfucky circumstances with many enemies standing in a row is the minigun worth using over the machinegun.

>>6484443
>super shotgun
Only fun in brutal doom.
>BFG
I don't get the praise for this gun. The animation and sfx feel weak. It's kinda powerful I guess but it's not very fun to use.

>>6484815
If you run out of ammo I think you just suck at the game.

>>6484865
>oh, you like to use your resources efficiently? You must be a real shitter!
Considering competing in the conclusion olympics, mate.

>fun ... brutal doom.
Yeah never mind. Considering competing in the retard olympics instead.

>>6484246
Doom’s Chaingun was originally a Machine Gun early in development.

>>6484067
>>The enemies patrolled the maps when they had not yet noticed your presence, unlike that strange 2 steps stance from doom.

Enemies in Wolfenstein would react to noises (gunshots, doors opening, etc) that occurred on a floor tile that was labeled with the same sector as the floor tile they were standing on. Typically, every floor tile in a single room would have the same sector, so when you opened the door to it every enemy in the room would react. The next room would have it's floor tiles with a different sector, so when you entered that room the enemies in it would react.

But, sometimes the level designers would have two rooms on opposite sides of the map have the same sector label for their floors, meaning you could shoot a gun and alert guards in a room early in the level, while also "alerting" guards in a room at the end of the level. This would cause the guard or guards in that room to start working their way though the level toward your position.

It wasn't "true" patrolling behavior, but it was an interesting workaround for limited AI that could fake it well enough to make the game more interesting.

>>6484246
yeah it's weak but it's not that bad. still very useful most of the time.

>>6484067
I've seen this exact post before

>>6484865
>Only fun in brutal doom.
>brutal doom
>>>/reddit/

>>6484934
Besides what you explained ,there IS patrolling on Wolf3D... you can "sometimes" see unalerted guards strolling around a room...

>>6484067
Kinda cool how you play as the villain too

>>6485057
That's the biggest plot-twist in gaming history.

>>6484865

Doom has enemies wake up and run around, but complex geometry made it harder

>>6484246
The chaingun is the perfect sniper rifle

>>6484067
I liked the "drinking blood for health" bit enabled when you're below 10%
That was really fucked and gave a sense of desperation. Doom didn't really have an equivalent.

>>6484246
It was a submachine gun at one point in development, that's why it feels a little weak

>>6487063
>drinking blood for health
God, wtf? Really? I've never even heard of that shit before. And I imagined Wolfenstein 3D was a goofy, lighthearted precursor of DOOM. Jesus.

>>6484067
>Doors could open in sideway and walls could be pushed back
I'd love to see that in Doom. I think it got implemented in Quake, but of course that was true 3D

>>6484934
>Enemies in Wolfenstein would react to noises (gunshots, doors opening, etc) that occurred on a floor tile that was labeled with the same sector as the floor tile they were standing on.
That would also be great in Doom, not that there's a great emphasis on stealth. As would a more limited "patrol/alert/relax" behaviour.

>>6487125
You could eat "gibs" too, which is apparently jewish human meat fed to dogs.

>>6484067
>2 steps stance
as a kid i used to call it the "Doom dance"

>>6487994
>That would also be great in Doom, not that there's a great emphasis on stealth. As would a more limited "patrol/alert/relax" behaviour.
Doom has a sound propagation system that causes monsters to wake up if there's a path from the sector you fire from and sector they are in and less than 2 lines set to block sound - which can simulate distance under certain circumstanes. It can also be abused to have them wake up through walls.

>>6487063
>drinking blood for health
deepest lore

>>6488050
I guess if I were to use console commands to make myself invisible and noclip, I could watch the monsters in their pre-alert state and provoke them into waking up without a target in sight?

Actually I love the way they infight - that's a lovely touch in the AI!

>>6488120
It usually manifests by monsters not being in the same place between games. The pathfinding is quite weak, without direct path to you they just wander randomly.

>>6484931
Make sense

>>6484067
All the stuff you've listed reminds me why I love Blake Stone so much.

>>6484067
Stop shooting my ancestors asshole. Amerikanischer Hurensohn.

>>6484067

You already made this exact thread a few days ago, you cum guzzling faggot. Stop spamming your autism here

wolf3d's minigun = doom's bfg9000

>>6489923
Hi, jew.

Fuck these guys, episode 2 can suck my dick

>>6489862
Yeah. Stop shooting dogs, OP.

>>6488120
I don't think that's the case. Monsters always now where you are when awake.

>>6490283
Ah well. Not massively important... just curious. It's like the old "if a tree falls in in the forest and nobody hears it..." thing. I've seen games before where the enemy does nothing until triggered, or has specific AI routines running when on- and offscreen, but I know games of this era are much more limited.

>>6490176
His animation is awful as fuck.

>>6489923
Fuck off this thread is decent at least

>>6490378
y u hatin

>>6484246
Wolf 3D's enemies were on average a lot weaker than what Doom throws at you (especially in Doom 2).

>>6490537
A lot less bullet spongy you mean.

>>6489923
It's interesting how the comment "Hi, jew" got deleted but this >>6490474 is still up.

It tells me all I need to know about who runs this place.

>>6490548
>Bullet spongy
Doom 1 and 2 have plenty of weapons that kill most of the higher HP enemies fairly quickly.

Episode 6 had like really bad map design.

>>6487994
It's not really possible given map geometry constraints in doom. I guess you could hack it in with sprite based objects maybe, but it would definitely be a hack.

Wolfestein is a good game, my only gripes is how much hitscan there is and enemies can kill you in 2 or 3 shots.

>>6490628
Brutal doom 1 and 2 you mean.

>>6491758
Yeah but you can kill them instantly too. I think it makes playing with wasd+mouse more balanced, unlike doom where wasd+mouse makes the game too easy.

>>6491789
Vanilla rockets, plasma, bfg, and even well placed ssg shots can take down everything but a cyberdemon fairly quickly on UV

>>6484067
You have to play as the bad guys though.

>>6491580
Indeed. More's the pity, because it would make for variety in doors, secrets, and even booby traps. Though a sprite-based Star Trek-style sliding door? I might have to see if I can hack that in, once I know how to create new entities.

>>6491874
>>6485057
/pol/

>>6493452
>>>/lgbt/

>>6484107
Kek FPBP

>>6484107
For me it's MIDI Maze.

>>6484865
>Only fun in brutal doom.
Faggot

>>6485042
This, they patrol corridors and some rooms, you can actually sneak up behind them and kill them with a single knife thrust if you don't alert them first, supposedly a hold over from the Castle Wolfenstein stealth stuff they were originally going to do. I've only tried this with the standard grunts though as those are the ones usually patrolling

>>6493596
Is there a way to do patrolling enemies in the Doom engine?

>>6493683
GZDOOM maybe

>>6491874
>BJ is white
It checks out.

>>6494098
Isn't he Polish-Jewish?! That isn't white.

>>6494098

>>6490176
Is he supposed to be Hitler saluting when he shoots? Always wondered that because it looks weird as fuck. Either that or I guess their arms could be like levers that cock so he can shoot

>>6493683
Not vanilla

>>6494129
Where did that piece of lore even come from? Was he always a bastard of the plumbers of Europe and (((them)))?

>>6487994
>>6491580
Spear Revisited by Caleb26 already does the sliding doors in GZDoom. https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=35289

>>6484067
play rise of the triad and get the best of both worlds

>>6490378
>>6494346
Yeah that always seemed weird to me. I think it's supposed to also be a melee animation for close combat, so they don't have to make two separate attack graphics.

Last night I had a dream where I was playing Wolfenstein 3D, except instead of nazis it was just a huge mob of cops, and I was just running around with the machine gun like Dg-Dg-Dg-Dg-Dg

Those are supposed to be machine gun sound effects btw

>>6494660
Neck yourself tranny

>>6494660
Based. American cops are modern day gestapo.

>>6494831
Dilate.

I've seen this thread before. Yeah the enemy patrolling is quite cool. Thats the only one i care about in your little list. The fps cap would have sucked but fuck off we all play source ports now. I bet half the people here play lame ass zoomer zoomdronum instead of the badass king of mp ports zdaemon too.

>>6494660
I have to agree with poltards on one point; tripfags get the rope

>>6497134
>Nu-Wang

>>6494841
>Based. American cops are modern day gestapo

>>6494841
I have no love for the police, but you're either delusional or retarded.

>>6484067
i remember playing a wolfestein mod for doom that was quite good, but dont remember the name, it was like a recreation of the original wolf in the doom engine

>>6498821
There're a plenty

>>6500094
which is the best one nowadays?

>>6497754
lol look at this greasy autist and his retarded pedo stache

>>6501254
You have to be 18 or older to post here

>>6501280
not simping for greasy autists doesn't make me underage

>>6494352
He's definitely Polish but his Jewishness is only implied, rather heavily though.

Better than Shit Life.

>>6494129
>jews arent white
Why is /pol/ so fucking delusional?

>>6501806
Because it's the truth?

>>6501806
Quit blaming /pol/ for your own historical ignorance. You do realise that "Jew" is derived from "Judea", and the people who lived there, right? They're a race of their own and with a very long history quite distinct from that of the various white peoples.

>>6501225
Laz Rojas' Wolfendoom collection ported to GZdoom
+ Blade of Agony of course

>>6501869
jews are only white when it suits them

>>6494129
Does this not look white to you?

>>6502272
white isn't just a skin colour

>>6501869
If jews aren't white then syrians, italians, spanish, and portuguese people aren't white because they're genetically very close. With this logic all eastern europeans aren't white either because they have an oriental admixture.

>>6484067
I agree with the first point about the strange animation loop when an enemy is idle in Doom. They should've just been static. I can see why they didn't bother with patrolling though, as most of the enemies in Doom are just like mindless insects. Everything else is pretty minor.

>>6502352
That's exactly what and all it is.

>>6484067
>>6484934
>>6502379
Wolf 3D was going to be a stealth game. It was supposed to be a sequel to Castle Wolfenstein and Beyond Castle Wolfenstein. The soldiers patrol the area, react to gunshots and door slides, and alert other soldiers, because that's how they behaved in the old Wolfenstein games. Then Carmack said fuck it let's dumb it down into a generic FPS. Doom's enemies just stand still because they weren't given any of the stealth AI Wolfenstein had.

>>6484067
1) They fumbled around a squared space. In Doom such fumbling could break the encounter before it began, especially with flying enemies like Cacos and Lost Souls. So it was likely not included for that reason. You could simulate this in Doom by alerting every enemy on the map as it starts via mod or something. See how that turn out.

2) Sadly, with BSP being built on entirely different principles than Wolfs raycast, there was no simple way support sideways movement, as it required quite a bit more calculations than machines of the time could afford.

3) Had to be done due to expanded roster.

wew this thread

>>6502363
So Jews aren't white. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>6502379
It would be cool though if they shuffled around a bit and occasionally opened (non-key) doors without first being alerted. That could add a bit more tension, since there's now the chance of bumping into a demon that just happened to have wandered off.

>>6502395
>let's dumb it down into a generic FPS
FPS games were barely a genre when the game came out. Wolf3D is anything but generic.

>>6502272
Badass

This thread was exactly what I expected.

>>6487994
All of those things can be done with GzDoom.

>>6489862
Fuck Germans.

>>6502395
>Wolf 3D was going to be a stealth game..Carmack said fuck it let's dumb it down into a generic FPS.
Those features were removed because they didn't mesh well with what they were designing, and I don't think it was even fully Carmack's idea to do remove them, if at all
>generic FPS
as opposed to the what, 3 other games in the then-unnamed genre at the time?

>>6502395
Simplifying the gameplay wasn't Carmack's idea, but Romero's, Carmack was fine with either. Also there had never been any 'generic FPS' before Wolfenstein 3D, even the concept of seeing your character's weapon in his hand was highly novel, with iD's own Catacomb 3D being the only previous game to do something like that
You're confusing it with Quake's development, which was hardly that clear cut.

>>6494352
Blazkowicz is Polish as fuck, and his originally stated hometown in America was someplace known for lots of Jew-Polack immigrants.

>>6491789
You can oneshot the final boss of the first game with the BFG9000.

>>6484067
>>6484067
I liked this game a lot. Any other cool video games where you play as an anti-fascist?

>>6497134
Who are the two on the bottom
>>6502272
No, he looks ginger

>>6508370
Reboot Lo-Wang (Shadow Warrior) and Caleb (Blood)

>>6502272
>no such weapon in WW2
>can't dual wield them ingame
why even live

>>6509304
Well, if it makes you feel any better, there was the Fokker-Leimberger gun, back during WW1.
It was a motor powered machinegun in 7.92x57mm Mauser, not quite a Gatling, rather using some manner of split-breech setup, but it has a cluster of 12 barrels in a circular assembly, they take turns firing at like 7000rpm.
There was probably only one prototype made, and it was probably never intended to be handheld, but it's about the closest you'll get to the classic Wolfenstein 3D chaingun or Return To Castle Wolfenstein Venom Gun.

>>6489923
Every
Single
Fucking
Few
Days
This
Nigger
Makes
This
Thread.
Mods mods mods ban him mods mods mods

>>6507919
>You can oneshot the final boss of the first game with the BFG9000.
The spider mastermind? Not true btw

>>6491789
>Brutal doom 1 and 2 you mean.
I've never played Brutal Doom

>>6513527
Yes you can, if you get right up in his grill when firing it, he will eat ALL of the 40 tracers and die like a bitch, the ball itself doesn't even matter.

>>6490548
Enemies may seem spongier in Doom 1 because the Shotgun is only so powerful and the Chaingun is what it is, the Baron Of Hell is also used more frequently and he's stacked as fuck with HP.
But if you look at the Rocket Launcher and Plasma Rifle, their damage output is VERY high, and the BFG9000 itself has an absolutely ridiculous output if you know how to exploit if (and it's almost a shame, because it incentivizes not using the Plasma Rifle, a gun I think is fun, because the BFG gives you much more value for the ammo type).

In Doom 2 there's more kinds of enemies, and they don't rely so much on the Baron, along with giving you the Shotgun Von Super, so in general sponge terms it's far milder.

>>6484865
>Only fun in brutal doom.
This is why everyone that played doom before 2012 hates Brutal Doom, dummies like you.
Eat shit and die.

>>6484865
What's brutal Doom?