/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6463506
The owl is Rauru.

The Gerudos were kickass masons and builders, and used to be on much friendlier terms with Hyrule kingdom.

There is an actual human being's soul trapped in OOT's world. He's disguising as a hyrule castle town resident.

>>6463517

I thought he was the King of hyrule?

>>6463535
I don't get it. what do you mean by that?
if you think that any NPC behaves differently from his code, well, think again.

>>6463528
I always wondered if Gerudos being all born female except for that one time where it's not the case is either a genetic thing or just through magical means or both.

>>6463537
Rauru is a cleric.

>>6463528

Was the Civil war leading up to link's mother's death basically Gerudo vs everybody or what's the deal with that? It's distinct from the imprisoning war

>>6463506
I don’t think he truly became a stalfos, it’s only the stupid kokiri girl’s joke.

>>6463506
I never thought of this as a "theory" but rather as something obvious, but I've learned that this is apparently somewhat controversial: All the sages who "awaken" do so after dying in their attempt to cleanse their respective temples.

>>6463506
If the shadow temple was a torture prison, what was the bottom of the well?

>>6463850
I always thought the bottom of the well was just some serial killer den from times more recent than the sealing of the shadow temple.

>>6463506
dying guard

The Forest Temple is actually just a Fortress that Hylians used in the war against the other races.
The painting in the boss room is of Kakariko village; specifically it was the Sheikah Traitor's house and the "Well Dungeon" underneath was actually just its basement.

The Water Temple is a actually a big Zora Orgy house.
The boss is basically a big egg floating around in the water; Zora females probably go to the final room and jizz their eggs everywhere out for male Zora's to fertilize.

In the Shadow Temple when you cross over on the boat before the boss fight you're actually leaving the world of the living and entering the underworld to fight Bongo Bongo.

Seres is already dead when you arrive to the Forest Temple
Darunia goes and fights Vovagia without the hammer and dies
Ruto is already dead prior to your arrival; she vanishes into thin air at a dead end hallway.
Impa either dies from her injuries from Bongo Bongo or just wanders into the afterlife willingly
Nabooru was going to fuck young Link but then you murder her in a suit of armor instead

In Link to the Past the statues in hyrule field have faces smiling at the sky as some incredibly early SkyLoft reference before the lore could be fully embellished.
The stained glass windows in the church in LttP aren't random shapes and colors; they actually depict ancient sages; but only have one pattern since the lore wasn't developed at the time
The first boss in LttP are statue warriors of the Royal Bloodline and you're essentially just pillaging your own bloodlines mausoleum for their warrior treasures. Same with the desert palace which requires ancient hylian to be spoken to enter.

Fuck I really shouldn't be telling you guys this but fuck it Im on a VPN, jesus take the wheel

If you managed to glitch the Warp Spell so for example warp in to ganons castle and then beat the game but without restating the game warp back to that warp point you placed in the Castl, you will enter the Parallel Void

Dont say I never did anything for you guys...

Hyrule Castle is Forest Temple
Every time you died in the game hero fall timeline begins

>>6463904
This can cause unwanted effects, you were warned

>>6463915
>Hyrule Castle is Forest Temple
How does this work?

>>6463915
Like . . . Forest Temple is the back door to the Hyrule Castle proper? Even though that'd put it right where Ganon's Castle is?
Or Forest Temple = An Older castle?

>>6463868
The animation he does the moment he dies is actually very unnerving and unsettling.
The fact he stays sit instead of dropping dead actually makes it more realistic, as the armor would keep his sitting position.

still my favorite detail in the game

>>6463870
>The Water Temple is a actually a big Zora Orgy house.
Excuse me what?

>>6463945
who dunnit?

>>6463506
We all know that a lot of OoT stuff was changed and shuffled around during the development, so I have a lot of theories about it.

I believe that the Ritos were supposed to be in the game, the Owl being one of them, he was the wind sage.

The Wind Temple was supposed to be on the Forest, given the illusion nature of the forest, just like in Breath of the Wild.

I think that the some equipament innitially were side effects of having the medallion's powers, that's why it's said that the medallion power is with you.

Fire - Fire resistence
Ice - Ice resistence
Earth - Iron Boots
Wind - Float
Light - Resist dark attacks, like zombies not freezing you (you get the light medallion just as you become adult).
Dark - See through illusions
Spirit - control things, like in TWW. There's a rumor you could use Navi to carry bomb, and they had to create bombchu when they removed that.

If you equipped these medallions into the bow you'd get some other attacks, like Fire Arrow, Ice arrow, light arrow... Maybe you could equip them in all of your weapons. Maybe.

>>6463994
>>6463506
Continuing my theories...

Also, you'd use the medallions to open the temples, the game was supposed to be Open, I guess. I think you were supposed to get the medallions in Ganon's Tower and then find the Dungeons. Or use the medallions inside Ganon's tower somewhere with the awoken sages.

That oasis near the Spirit Temple was always very strange to me, you'd fill the oasis with the Ice medallion power, and it would open the temple.

You'd use the Wind Medallion on Kakariko's village windmill and it would open the Shadow Temple (bottom of the well) temple.

You'd use Fire medallion to light the torchs sou you could enter Ice cavern.

Parts of the Wind temple ended up in Shadow Temple, you can even see Rito statues there.

So the game would be much more opened, the Temples was supposed to be much more "connected". I think it's possible that you'd need to go to the multiple temples once you'd find an equipament in one of them.

Also, I think it was supposed to be Hookshot only, with Longshot range. None of the blockages on the game was suppsoed to existe.

Young Link was supposed to get the Gerudo's card as a kid. You'd use slingshot on Gerudos, that's why they passout when you use bow on them.

The training grounds was supposed to be the Earth temple or another Young Link dungeon. All of the Young Link's dungeons has this theme of "entering" a mouth. Actually I think the you'd get to the "mouth" when you were going to enter the boss battel.

I don't think Jabu Jabu was initially a dungeon, you'd enter his mouth just for the boss battle. You'd solve the dungeon before to stop the parasite.
So you'd enter Deku Tree to fight Gohman, and that was it. You'd solve the dungeon before. Then you'd enter Jabu Jabu to fight the parasitem the dungeon was before. And inside the Turtle to fight a Dodongo? Maybe the Turtle was alive before. Dodongo's cavern used to be Turtle's Rock on beta pictures.

>>6463948
The boss is a giant fish egg that tries to suffocate you.
Contrast this with Ruto being an overly forward fish female who wants you to marry her it seems this portion of the game was written with the idea of Link confronting relationships with women.

The boss room is a big wading pool with platforms; likely the female Zora's would swim around in this safe chamber and release their eggs while the males jack off from the platforms. There doesn't seem to be any other function of the Water Temple; I always imagine Zora couples overcoming all the trials together considering there are quite a few puzzles that would either require a partner or a bomb/bow combo that they wouldn't have.

>>6463994
>>6463998
Continuing a few more theories...

Forest Temple was Hyrule Castle, that's why it's castle themed, you'd get the Master Sword there.

As for the clothes, there are dozens of colors when you hack the game, it was only that, like Breath of the Wild... it was only colors.

As for the dungeons weapons, I think they were only weapons, not necessary at all to beat the dungeon, you'd choose the one that would fit your fight style better. Master sword wasn't the main weapon, any could have been your main weapon.

I think that the original story was more like this: The sages were inside the Ganon's castle "holding him there" with their power, you'd get the medallions if you could beat the dungeons, and use the medallions to access the other dungeons.

The crystals were also powers of the medallions, but only if you used them alone, without being equipped on weapons.

I think that Breath of the Wild has a lot of the original design ideas for OoT.

Fire Temple was spectacle rock, but it's position is wrong related to it, due to being rushed or an oversight.

There was never going to be a time travel mechanic in the beggining, you were only adult, but them they come up with the child thing.

Pretty much all the game open world "blockages", like stopping that rolling Goron with a bomb so you'd have access to the Goron't tunic always felt very "wrong" to me. I think everything was supposed to be open from the start. Again, like Breath of the Wild.

>>6464001
>There doesn't seem to be any other function of the Water Temple
It's literally Hyrule's aqueduct. I keep reading people saying that the water temple doesn't seem to have any purpose, but it's actually one of the temples with the most obvious function within the world of the game, one of the NPCs (don't remember who, I think either one of the Zoras, or the owl) tells you that the Water Temple works as an aqueduct for all the water in Hyrule.
When you change the water level inside the temple, it actually affects the water on Lake Hylia (it becomes empty if you lower down the water to the lowest level in the temple).
It's also probably a place of worship to Zora deities (the dragon statues), but this is more vague and would actually be interesting to work some lore out of it. But the actual function of the temple is pretty clear.

>>6463870
>Sheikah Traitor's house and the "Well Dungeon" underneath was actually just its basement.
True, I think the temples were supposed to be done in "two" parts, all of them.

One part as child and another as adult. So, somehow, the Temple was connected to the traitor. And that den was where he practiced black magic.

>In the Shadow Temple when you cross over on the boat before the boss fight you're actually leaving the world of the living and entering the underworld to fight Bongo Bongo.
I think it was leftovers of the Wind Temple, notice you fight Stalfos there, and Stalfos are people that die in the forest.

>Seres is already dead when you arrive to the Forest Temple

Also I think she was the one you'd call for help, instead of Navi.

>>6463991
me I used my going into games machine

>>6463506
i heard sheik is actually zelda

>>6463752
I think so. I feel Hyrule attempted to assert unilateral sovereignty over the Gerudo, and they didn't take too kindly.

>>6463849
>All the sages who "awaken" do so after dying in their attempt to cleanse their respective temples.
That seems unnecessarily brutal and grimdark for the emotional tone attempting to be struck in the moment. Half the sages appear fit only for noncombatant roles.

>>6463850
It didn't always look that. BongoBongo was sealed there, remember? It became haunted and unclean.

>>6464067
If you watch the ending all of the Sages are on a hill by themselves and then disappear into balls of light. Its pretty heavily implied they die along the way of becoming Sages.
OoT is actually pretty "dark" in this regard- from what little story is actually present the tones and themes explored are explicitly adult.

>>6463870
>The boss is basically a big egg floating around in the water; Zora females probably go to the final room and jizz their eggs everywhere out for male Zora's to fertilize.
Dude, Morpha is a result of the curse on the temple. It's not normally a fixture at the Water Sage's bathing pool. I don't think anyone enjoys swimming with a protoplasmic monstrosity that shouldn't be visible without the aid of a microscope.

>>6464076
Disappearing into a ball of light is a method of travel, in my opinion.

>>6463870
>In the Shadow Temple when you cross over on the boat before the boss fight you're actually leaving the world of the living and entering the underworld to fight Bongo Bongo.
This is the only thing in your post that makes a lick of sense. I could totally buy that; Impa calls it "The House of the Dead" after all.

>>6463945
>>6463991
>>6464026
Wolfos scratches.

>>6464081
I vaguely remember Mido saying something hinting at Saria being "gone" after the Forest Temple, but it's been a while since I played OoT.

>>6464013
Precisely. Even MM bolsters this, in a way, considering it's a parallel universe of Hyrule.

>>6464053
Yeah makes the most sense, just not sure if it was a full on race war before hand and the kokiri/zora/gorons had just alreeady lost.

>>6464076
I think Darunia definitely died, and that could be used to say they all did. I always thought that they ether died fighting the guardian, or are now in some transcendent state - which may as well be death (I think a few of them allude to not being able to interact with the world anymore - like not being able to marry/be with link for example).

>>6463994
I can see a resemblance between the owl and the rito, but do you think they thought of the Rito by then? I think it's the oppposite, they did the owl then thought it would be a cool future race to explore.

>>6463945
Is my memory warped or is there an actual wolfos there at somepoint when you're an adult? This and the Tree drawings in Kokiri forest were the biggest mysteries of my childhood.

>>6463870
Fortress idea is cool, like they took over/allied with great deku tree and wanted a stronghold on the opposite side - no idea what you;re talking about the boss room painting and Sheikah traitor though.

Good point about nabooru - if sages are dead, you knock her out of her brainwashedness but then the witches straight up kill her.

>>6463860
Thats really fucked up lmfao

>>6463806
that's cold

>>6464118
>I can see a resemblance between the owl and the rito, but do you think they thought of the Rito by then? I think it's the oppposite, they did the owl then thought it would be a cool future race to explore.
Yeah, I thought about it too. But there used to be a Wind Temple before, and the only element that doesn't have its own "race" is wind.

The second evidence is that in Shadow Temple (I believe that parts of the Wind Temple ended there), you find a lot of Bird sculptures, you even blow one of them to cross the gap.

Anothe strange thing is that this temple is full of these big "gaps", I think this temple could have originally been in a higher place. So the Wind Temple would not be in the Forest, just the Master Sword. If that's the case, it's possible that the Forest Temple was just an abanadoned castle, and not Hyrule castle.

Of course, since the Wind Temple was cut, the idea was scrapped for that game.

>>6464118
>Is my memory warped or is there an actual wolfos there at somepoint when you're an adult? This and the Tree drawings in Kokiri forest were the biggest mysteries of my childhood.
Now that you mention it, I think you might be right...Now, the drawings on the tree are easy: Link and Saria did those.

>>6464118
>Yeah makes the most sense, just not sure if it was a full on race war before hand and the kokiri/zora/gorons had just alreeady lost.
The Kokiri are isolationist to the point of no one outside the forest knowing they exist. I feel it is only with extreme reluctance the Deku tree allowed the Forest Temple to be constructed so closely. Whatever political maneuverings may have taken place, you can be assured they had no part in it. The dialog even states as much.

>>6464002
The different tunics aren’t actually in the game, the gameshark codes are just colour modifiers. See https://tcrf.net/Talk:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Archive_1#White.2FGold_Tunics_-_No_info.3F

>>6464002
>As for the dungeons weapons, I think they were only weapons, not necessary at all to beat the dungeon, you'd choose the one that would fit your fight style better. Master sword wasn't the main weapon, any could have been your main weapon
I sincerely doubt this, apart from Zelda 2 almost all Zelda games have had the ‘rule’ that the item in the dungeon usually is essential for progression in that dungeon

>>6464313
I think that you were supposed to find the medallions within the dungeon, and would beat the boss to "fix" the area.

The weapons would have been bought on stores.
H
>>6464298
Interesting, in my theory the Tunic attributes was probably related to the medallions. It is possible that one npc would change your tunic colors, just like in BotW.

>>6464386
Tunic attributes were*

>>6464386
I reckon the tunic thing is the other way round, medallions or some sort of unlock originally would have let you go under water and the tunics were added later

>>6464076
>>6464081
Disappearing in a ball of light makes me think it was a reference to the "chariot of fire/merkavah" in jewish religion (something Zelda draws a lot from)

Basically, instead of dying in a regular way, the person obtains a "body of glory" and ascends immediality
It happened to Enoch, Elie and Christ

>>6464485
Yes, that's what I meant.

My theory goes as this:

The medallions were supposed to be used for giving you passive and active skills, but when attached to the bow it would give you elemental arrows.

Din's fire = Fire medallion
Hover boots = Wind medallion
Nayru's love = possibly spirit medallion (?)
breath underwater = Ice medallion
Deku Nuts = Light medallion
See false things = Shadow medallion
Iron boots = Earth medallion (I believe it was scraped, some of its parts ended up on Gerudo Training Grouds).

As for passive skills, Fire resistence, Spell resistence, Ice resistence, and so on...

But they changed stuff around so much that they attached the passive skills to the tunics.

The color changing tunic was probably a feature that would change nothing about the tunics attributes, except for the color.

Also, it's possible that the tunics were part of the game, but they were only defense power ups. The blue would give you 25% and the red would give you 50%.

It makes sense, because the defense power up ended up with a Great Fairy at the very final part of the game. It's just too late for that.

Also, that's why like-likes can eat the tunics. That would make sense, so you'd need to spent some rupees on the power ups again.

That makes a lot of sense to me, specially from a game design perspective. And it would be somewhat aligned to the past Zelda games.

>>6464002
>I think that Breath of the Wild has a lot of the original design ideas for OoT
The champions being dead is a parallel to the oot sages being dead

>>6464549
>>6464519
Yeah, since they are dead, think how cool it would be if it were like this:

You'd go as an adult and would beat the dungeon, the sages died, but they were awakened, since they died.

With that knowledge you'd go to the past and would awake themt. They would not die, instead, they would wait for you to defeat the bosses.

After all the sages were alive and awaken they would dispell the barrier by taking them to specific places inside the dugneons or ganon's castle.

>>6464139
Cool take, forgot about the statues, and maybe Owls being nocturnal and "shadows" have a stretched connection too

>>6464164
Yeah not so much WHO drew them.. but what were they foretelling of, or who was the dragon (I like the Dodongo over volvagia theory, looks more like it and maybe the kokiri had warped views of the outside and heard of normal dodongos being huge)

>>6464579
I like this - adds more weight to the timetravel and a feeling of preventing aspects of the future you created

>>6464095
Yeah honestly the death of the sages doesn't matter practically cause either way they're in their own realm or whatever for the rest of the game - it's more whether they Died defending their land and that protector spirit was reignited by the hero, or they were saved by the hero after being imprisoned by ganondorf.

>>6464067
>I'm going to purify the temple!
>runs into boss room
>you fight the boss with them nowhere in sight
>Oh hey, I've """awakened as a sage"""!

>Make the game as accessible as possible
>Retards will find ways to nitpick things that weren't there to begin with
Read a book if you feel that clever.

>>6464080
It makes sense that if a curse corrupted an egg fertilization room it might take the form of a fucked up giant egg.

>>6464959
accessibility and lore aren't mutually exclusive you silly goose.

>>6464959
>>6464963
This is why video games, as a medium, still haven't matured... Because the players themselves can't into subtext and believe that anything that needs the player to connect the dot wasn't intended by the devs or are only some form ironic conspiracy-theory fun (see: Mario 64)

The end result is that modern games tend to ape cinema instead of telling stories in ways only them can. That's how you end up with multi-million budget games with corridors or Open worlds with millions of books of lore to read, instead of discovering said lore through the gameplay

>>6464996
I completely agree. It's actually kind of hilarious, because everyone wants people to think of video games as art, but then they're also too autistic to accept the concept of personal interpretations. Everything has to be some kind of established "developer intent" or "canon" and how dare you read into anything or apply any level of interpretation beyond what is explicitly stated?

>>6463571
>I always wondered if Gerudos being all born female except for that one time where it's not the case is either a genetic thing or just through magical means or both.
My headcanon was that the Sheikah had performed some sort of dark ritual to curse the Gerudo to only have female children ~99.9% of the time in an attempt to destroy them militarily. The Sheikah seem able to and willing to do all sorts of evil shit to protect Hyrule.

>>6465042
And it's a pity...
Since we're talking about Zelda. I interpretated Link's awakening as being a metaphor for enlightenment. And nope, it's not far-stretched

Heavy spoilers for the game.

>Link is trapped on an island... It symbolizes the material world
>Link must awaken the dreamfish in order to leave the island
>Link's primary aids are Marin and the Owl... The Owl is an obvious initiatic symbol for "wisdom" and Marin, symbolizes Wisdom too... "Sophia" : only that she's personnified by a woman... like it's usually the case in chivalry epics (see: Dante's beatrice)
>After a while, Link learns that he LITERALLY is inside a dream... And that the nightmares (satan/the adversary) only wants to keep the dream, the illusion, alive. Evil is a veil that hides the true reality/God
>That's where Marin becomes an obstacle. Marin helped Link in his quest, but she eventually becomes a burden and he must go past his love for her in order to wake up the dreamfish. Likewise, Dante must let go of Beatrice before he reach God, and in most initiatic traditions, the woman as a symbol for wisdom is both a guide and a veil after a while. (Ramakhrisna had to kill the illusion of his personal goddess in order to become enlightened)
>Link then vanquish the nightmare and wakes up the dream fish, the illusion is shattered, the last remnants of it all is the dreamfish flying over the sun while Link laughs

Also. If you finish the game without dying in the DX version, Marin becomes a seagull... Birds are symbols for angels/devas. Higher beings but not yet enlightened. Marin was obviously pure enough to be reborn as an "angel". It was her wish and dream.

>>6465107
Marin symbolises innocence better than wisdom, and it would make sense for innocence to be holding you back in the end than wisdom.

>>6465117
It's not that wisdom, in the true sense of the word, holds you back... It's that usually, the Knight falls in love with his "Lady"

His Lady is an aid because her beauty, love and innocence is a reflection of Divine said divine qualities... But after a while, the knight wants to stay besides her and love her for who she is... as a person... instead of taking the final leap and realizing his love for his Lady was only his love for God/Reality disguised behind a person.

The woman is called "wisdom" because Divine wisdom is what gives the world its beauty. But I agree with Marin being innocence/love. It works too, it's the same idea.

>>6463752
It was Zora v. Goron and the Hylians got messed up in it and there was an attempted overthrow of the king.
The Gerudo sat on the sidelines and may or may not have instigated the conflict.
The Sheikah may have also been involved in the attempted coup.

>>6464076
Except that's not what happened, they show up as balls of light and REAPPEAR on top of death mountain.

>>6464996

I think they've definitely matured, just because some people don't want to think deeper than the objective that's on them. Think about the Song of Ice and Fire world - I'm sure some people don't care about anything outside of what literally has happened, but the most fun was diving into the possibilities

>>6465042
There's a reason "Headcanon" is a term to nullify these needless arguments.

>>6465087
Damn that's wild actually, a form of population culling in a magical way. Does anyone know any lore / theory of a Gerudo vs Sheikah rivalry? Seems like they're both mysterious cultures that could have butt heads

>>6465207
Why Goron vs Zora? Outside of the elemental affinities it doesn't seem like they have much to squabble over. I could see Gerudo as they're depicted being opportunistic in the fight to gain power, but from Wind Waker it seemed like the Gerudo have been oppressed by the others for years and have developed their thieving culture as a result of basically being sanctioned and having arid land so they UNIRONICALLY have to pull an Aladdin (Gotta steal to eat, Gotta eat to live)

>>6465256
>Why Goron vs Zora
Don't know, the idea comes from a dubiously canon source but it's the only background for the war ever provided.
Like I said, the Gerudo are implied to have possibly played a part in instigating it.

>>6465256
>There's a reason "Headcanon" is a term to nullify these needless arguments.
Even the term "headcanon" is so goofy. When people look at more "traditional" art like paintings or books or films with vague or ambiguous elements they talk about their interpretations, not about "headcanon." Headcanon is a term that owes back to the obsession with developer intent and canonicity in games and it's absurd to treat it that way if you think games should be considered art.

>>6465256
>I think they've definitely matured, just because some people don't want to think deeper than the objective that's on them.
Can you give me an exemple from a modern AAA game?

That's the difference between past games and new ones. Authors were allowed big budget to craft interesting worlds while still making video games.
The idea or "artful" games are now Kojima's a hack who wanted to make movies and games like TLOU

i always thought as a kid that the witches were somehow using nabooru when transforming into twinrova. like they stole the youth from her like witches usually do. nowadays i'm pretty sure that's not what happens but it was always kinda weird how they don't convey exactly what the witches did to nabooru and that still makes more sense to me than anything

>>6463945
>>6463991
>>6464092
it was originally meant for the starting room in the forest temple to hint at the wolfos ambush

>>6463506
the dying soldier in the Back Alley once ganondorf comes to power

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWNGI87ptq4

>>6465367
That actually makes a lot of sense and lines up with the idea of the sages all dying and their spirits awakening in the Light Temple.

>>6465295
Goron vs Zora=Fire vs Water

>>6463806
It was indirectly confirmed by nintendo the Hero's Shade from Twilight Princess was the Hero of Time. He did die and turn into a stalfos.

>>6463506
Link is a mute tranny who was chosen by the feminist goddesses to turn a generation of men into soibois

One of my personal headcanons with OoT was that the whole "Adult Era Timeline" and the "Hero of Time is Defeated Timeline" dont actually exist and are only "What if" scenarios. The only one that exists is the child era timeline, because link being sent back in time to prevent Ganondorf from getting the Triforce erased that timeline. Another thing I want to mention, I personally believe only 5 zelda games actually happened (In chronological order): Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild. I say this mainly because these five games seem to be the only ones that really fit for a proper continuity (To me at least).

>>6463571
That simply kill male babies and keep on every so often to make more babies. Ganondorf is father of most of them

>>6465548
Also because I fucking hate the direction nintendo took with Wind Waker. Its a good game dont get me wrong, I actually played and beat the game, but the artstyle and the idea of retarded evolutions and hyrule being destroyed by flooding just didnt sit well with me (and a lot of other fans at the time). the ending is ironically the most violent one in a zelda game, so there's that.

>>6465382
Yeah, I think it's that or it was in the first part of the Sacrad Meadow, it would mark the secret grotto of that area. Two wolfos attack you there. But they just moved the asset later. In 3DS they removed the scratch.

>>6465367
Considering they lived for 400 years, you may actually be right. But Link does kill her, she is a Darknut.

>>6465558
Im glad they retconned the rito being evolved from zora in BOTW, but that still doesnt answer the whole thing about koroks and kokiri. I still dont belive the kokiri evolved into koroks.

>>6465523
That explanation doesn't make any sense with the ending of Majora's Mask, though. It's heavily implied that Link is able to leave the forest, since it's no longer filled with fog.

>>6465558
>retarded evolutions
I'm 100% sure the game was rushed and they had to this kind of stuff. The rumors say that you were supposed to play in Hyrule too. Rito and Zoras were different races. Not an evolution.

>>6465565
I see the Kokiris as wood people, like Pinocchio. Deku made them like this to accomodate Link, but their true form is Koroks.

>>6465564
no him "killing" her darknut form just breaks off her armor and snaps her out of it. then right after the witches hit her with some spell and she disappears

>>6465626
you are right. So it's possible that they stole their life.

>>6465620
I think personally what happened is that the kokiri either went into hiding after the deku tree died or died off while the koroks are more like offshoots of the original Great Deku Tree amnd eventually managed to grow a new sapling after Link came back from the future.

>>6465634
The TWW Deku Tree is actually the Deku Tree sprout that is born. I believe it's said somewhere that they are evolved from the Kokiris. that doesn't make any sense, unless the Kokiris were wood people.

In Skyward Sword you've got these wood like things living in the Forest too.

>>6465613
Funny enough, if you look at some walls in twilight princess (you can see it better in the hd remaster) it depicts a birdlike people similar to the rito side by side with hylians. I think that was the original plan.

>>6465548
The theory I mainly subscribe to is that the "Downfall Timeline" is simply the original timeline
and the events of Ocarina of Time are actually the result of some retroactive attempt to prevent Ganon from ever coming into being.

It simultaneously explains the blatant inconsistencies between ALttP and OoT while also erasing the puzzling idea that the hero being "defeated" somehow creates an alternate timeline.

>>6465643
Im talking about my previous head canon. that the wind waker timeline never happened. And that most zelda games never actually happened outside of 5 of them. Also because the Deku Tree was alive amd well in BOTW.

>>6465647
Its funny, I used to think ocarina of time was the first time ganondorf was first introduced, but then I played LttP and dound out the whole schtick of Ganondorf being a theif that managed to get the triforce before becoming Ganon was already a thing.

Can we all agree that the whole four sword and Light Force thing is complete bullshit.

>>6465669
yep

>>6465645
Yeah, it's missing the third dungeon (where you get the bombs), missing the Ghost Ship dungeon (you'd get the Skull hammer there).

The Ice and Lava island that holds the Iron Boots and the bracelets, also the way you get the Fire and Ice arrows is just too strange.

There are so many "use it only one time" assets in meanless islands. Like a contraption where you need to use the Deku Leaf to make it turn... it's only used one single time in a meanless island. It's just too much work for nothing. Of course it had a bigger purpose.

Hyrule... I think you were supposed to explore the whole thing, maybe unfreeze it from time, so you were going to meet the races there and stuff and possibly beat all the temples again.

I think that this game had so much potential...

Apparentely Twilight Princess had the same problem, it was supposed to be Dark Work/Light World thing, that's why Link is morphed into a wolf. The Dark World reflects the heart.

>>6465653
Oh, I see, my bad, yeah. That would make sense, or that the Koroks were an evolution of the Deku Scrubs? I believe that Deku means fairy in japanese, so are they related to fairies?

>>6465669
I'm not sure about the Light Force. The triforce is presented just as the Force in the Minish cap, just one single triangle. That makes much more sense.

Zelda was much better when they didn't reveal anything and just let the fans pick up the pieces.

I really like the "it's the same legend, told in a different way" interpretation

>>6465684
The light force as a concept alone still doesnt fit. It was only for two games not including the original four swords game (the light force didnt become a thing until Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventures) and its never even so much as REFERENCED in any other games outside of those two games, not even in BOTW, which has references to every other zelda game except the four swords games.

>>6465707
The Hyllian bird is carrying an inverted triforce though. It's like it's hidden.

>>6465684
I love twilight princess, but god damn hyrule is empty as fuck in that game and there isnt much to do. Only reason replay it nowadays is Midnas fat imp ass.

>>6465716
On Hylian shield ornaments*

>>6465721
That doesnt mean anything imo.

>>6465720
The game was also too linear, It would have been my favorite Zelda if it were open and the beggining weren't so slow. At least they got it right with BotW.

>>6465548
>>6465647
No, no, no, you're not thinking FOURTH DIMENSIONALLY! The "Hero Falls" timeline isn't actually a timeline created by Link dying, it's created by the act of time traveling ITSELF. Child Link pulls the sword out of the pedestal and Rauru keeps him in stasis for 7 years while Ganondorf wreaks havoc in Hyrule. Link then returns to Hyrule as an adult and sets out to stop Ganondorf. So far, so good, right? Well, here's the thing: If you travel back in time and then travel forward in time again, you will not travel to the same timeline you originally came from. Instead, you travel to a timeline wherein you had traveled back in time previously, and the original timeline where you had not yet traveled backward is abandoned. What happens to that first timeline, your originating or "native" timeline, you might wonder? It continues on and it seems as though you've simply vanished from it, from the perspective of those living within it. Everyone there thinks you're dead while you're off gallivanting in your modified timelines; you can never return.

So here's what happens: The moment that Link travels back in time to childhood again during the game, which is REQUIRED for completion of the Spirit Temple and therefore must be done at least once in the game, once he travels forward again he's actually going into a new timeline wherein he had traveled back in time before, allowing for his changes to the timeline to propagate. But what happens to the timeline he traveled FROM? Simple: Link disappeared from it, everyone thinks he's dead, and Ganondorf's conquest continues unhindered. The "adult" timeline follows the events after Link successfully defeats Ganon, the "child" timeline follows the events after Link traveled back in time to help Zelda warn the king about Ganondorf, and the "defeat" timeline is simply the original "time travel-free" timeline that originated all of the events and got trashed the moment Link traveled back in time and then forward again.

>>6465728
No mention of Midnas fat ass? Im disappointed in you.

>>6465739
(Thats the last time I'm mentioning it I dont want to shit up the thread cuz we have a good thing going)

>>6465724
I see, but it fits perfectly the missing slot. In general, it makes more sense to be one whole thing than three separated things.

I think that it's a myth that each part represents something, specially "power, wisdom and courage". It could have been any other thing, like "Spirit, friendship and love".

I see it as just one artifect left by the goddess. And somehow the Hylians found a way to break it apart.

>>6465739
She is too imp in that form. lol

>>6465732
Ohh, I hate these multiple parallel universe thing. I've found a way to fix that while playing Chrono trigger.

It's very simple, but it follows that stuff about quantum physics and double slit experiment.

You have multiple "universes" happening with all the possibilities, but once you change the past, the universe will "decay" into another thing, because you are interacting with the whole system. So, in that way, you can only have one universe where everything "falls into" and the other possible futures are just infinity possibilities, but only one can become "reality". The matter must decay into just one "reality".

That would explain Majora's and Oracle of Seasons beautifully, actually any time travel thing.

>>6465295
What's the source? and for thread purposes we can theorize - could there be some kind of trade war (ie. fish/water vs. goron blacksmithing/bombs)? Some type of game of thrones shenanigans where they both are trying to get power in hyrule's council?

>>6465336
Don't disagree with your point, but it's just a dumb word you can use to make autists take a step back and consider the logic without kneejerk shouting down exploratory analysis.

>>6465367
Yeah i always wondered why she kind of resembles twinrova, good theory.

>>6465620
I was wondering about this too, as link grew up he went from age 0-12 with 12 year old peers presumably. But if you're right and they're just avatars to suit Link's upbringing, would they grow with him?

>>6465732
Not bad, explains the heroes fall timeline without having to resort to "The player fails" since it's entirely likely that people never die in a playthrough.


What's the deal with dark link in OoT? It seems like they had a more in depth arc for him, maybe if he came at the bottom of the well or shadow temple instead. But as it is it's laughably random and easy. Is he some kind of manifestation of the regret and impulsiveness link felt from being bamboozled by big G?

>>6465732
I don't really understand what you are saying.
Time-travel in OoT works by the sword.
Child Link pulls the sword and travels 7 years to the future, then adult link returns the sword and travels back to the moment he pulls it. It's literally just a link between those moments, so yes that means Link is returning to the correct timeline as it's the moment before he pulls the sword, essentially meaning everytime he pulls the sword from the pedestal is the first time doing so.

What would have made sense is if you took note of the fact that Zelda, at the end of the game, sends Link back to a past before he even opened the Temple of Time, meaning that he did in fact never return to the original child timeline where Ganondorf had taken over.

>>6465801
>What's the source?
Work House Ocarina of Time Comic

the weird events that happen within it are obviously non-canon as they contradict the game, but its descriptions of what occurred in the past is more curious and possibly canon.

>>6465817
It's most easily explained if we focus on the one thing that CANNOT be done without time travel shenanigans: Child Link meeting Nabooru and collecting the Silver Gauntlets. This event cannot happen unless Adult Link gets the Spirit Temple song and then travels back in time to use it as Child Link.

Prime Timeline:
>Child Link meets Zelda
>Child Link collects all the Spiritual Stones
>Child Link opens the Door of Time and takes the Master Sword
>Ganondorf follows him into the Sacred Realm to steal the Triforce of Power
>Child Link is put into stasis by Rauru for 7 years
>Ganondorf rules over Hyrule for those 7 years
>Adult Link emerges and sets out to collect all the Medallions
>Nabooru never met Child Link
>Adult Link does not possess the Silver Gauntlets
>the chest containing the Silver Gauntlets remains unopened
>in order to progress at some point Adult Link must travel back in time to obtain the Silver Gauntlets
>Adult Link returns the Master Sword to the pedestal and travels back in time

Modified Child Timeline:
>Child Link teleports to the Spirit Temple
>Child Link meets Nabooru
>because of time travel, this is his second meeting of her but her first meeting of him
>Child Link collects the Silver Gauntlets
>Child Link returns to the Temple of Time and removes the Master Sword

Modified Adult Timeline:
>Adult Link emerges in a timeline in which Nabooru met Child Link 7 years ago
>in this timeline, Child Link took the Silver Gauntlets from the Spirit Temple
>in this timeline, Adult Link now has those Silver Gauntlets that Child Link took

From here, the game continues as normal, but the original, unmodified Prime Timeline can never be returned to. From the perspective of the people in the Prime Timeline, Adult Link was running around being a hero and then just vanished suddenly. He is presumed dead, hence "Hero Falls," and Ganon's reign continues unabated until the Goddesses flood Hyrule or whatever it is that happens.

>>6464519
What are all the examples of Zelda drawing from Jewish religion

>>6465685
It was cool when it was just your friends/family theorizing about the setting and making up your own backstories, but with the internet there becomes commonly accepted narratives which can be cool and more intricate.

>>6464936
I don't remember a Wolfos there in OOT, but there's a similar area in MM where you fight Wolfos on several small islands that are connected by bridges (the frozen lake that's unfrozen after beating the temple)

>>6465548
This is sort of related: it bugs the fuck out of me that the "official" timeline has MM and WW in completely different branches. When WW came out, it seemed obvious that Link never returned to Hyrule because Zelda sent him back in time, and then he got trapped in Termina. WW immediately followed MM and surely the original intent was for the events of the latter to lead to the former.

>>6466420
Jesus was conflating the two, not until you said that did I realize i was thinking that you fight the wolf after the lake unfreezes and before you get the fire arrows.


>>6466467
So you wanted WW in after MM? Why did this seem obvious I'm curious?


WHat the hell is up with the whole windmill situation? Who is this dude and what's his relevance to the town. He grinds organs? he hates the music he plays?
How the FUCK does a windmill drain the well anyway, as a Kid I thought that was the function of windmills as a result

>>6465940
It's celtic, she's irish

>>6464960
I think you need to work on separating your fucked-up harem hentai fantasies from your other pursuits and interests. Something about this fixation seems vaguely unhealthy, Anon!

>>6465107
>I interpretated Link's awakening as being a metaphor for enlightenment
Shit, I thought that subtext was a given, Anon. Almost like a play-on-words or pun level of obviousness. In fact, I struggle to think how anyone could *fail* to think that, beyond the standard "It's just vidya you stupid nerd!" defense.

>>6466710
Because the prologue of WW seems to directly reference the events of MM, i.e. Link was trapped in Termina, so he wasn't around to defeat Ganon. It's the most logical interpretation given that MM directly preceded WW.
Back then there was still the fan idea that the timeline split at the end of OOT, but there were only the child/adult timelines, not the third one that Nintendo came up with. MM and WW would be the child timeline. I think Nintendo retconned WW and MM into different continuities even though they were originally intended to be the same.

>>6465336
Headcanon doesn't mean that at all, to me. "Headcanon" is what you use when you so fundamentally disagree with the direction your chosen piece of media has gone in- stylistically, musically, narratively, etc -that you simply decide to ignore it and pretend it doesn't count. This usually occurs with older franchises being run into the ground and milked to death by a Media Cartel after the creator has left the picture, but not always. Some examples-

1. Easy one: I don't consider any Star Wars movies after the original 6 to be valid. No, not even Clone Wars, unless we're talking the Tartovsky miniseries.

2. More complex- I don't consider the OG Star Trek, TMP, Star Trek 5, Deep Space 9, or anything from Nemesis forward canon. How does this work? Captain Kirk and his five year mission are simply events oft-referenced but never seen on-screen (like the Romulan War has been). Ditto for Pike. TMP never happened, the Enterprise A was retrofitted off-screen. Star Trek- Enterprise is the drop-in replacement for OG Star Trek. The Final Frontier? Never happened. Deep Space Nine? Once again, Dominion War happened off-screen, show itself never did. Nemesis et al? Never happened sonny, story ends at Insurrection.

3. And finally, The Legend of Zelda- which in my headcanon starts with Hyrule Fantasy and ends with Spirit Tracks. There is no "third timeline", Aonuma's been smoking too much weed. Multiplayer-only and spinoffs like Link's Crossbow Training? Never happened, don't count. Remakes? Don't count unless they're inside the Zelda 1 to Spirit Tracks window. Shit like 4 Swords? The first included sidegame never happened, 4 Swords Adventures did.

And so on. To me, that's headcanon.

>>6466710
The windmill is powered by the water in the well, which acts like a big battery. As the windmill spins, it slowly uses up water. Normally this is fine, as the windmill turns slowly enough that the groundwater can replenish the well battery naturally. But when the magic of the Song of Storms sends the windmill spinning so incredibly fast, it drains all the water at once from the increased power usage and it dries up.

>>6465870
But when you emerge in the Modified Adult Timeline, all the previous dungeons have already been completed and bosses defeated. Since this is the first emergence of an adult Link in that timeline, who defeated those bosses?

>>6466810
Link did, because the Modified Adult Timeline is essentially a branch of the Prime Timeline, containing all the same events but with added changes created by the wrinkle of Link traveling back in time, doing things that were previously impossible, and then traveling forward through time again. The timeline he travels to the future of is one in which Nabooru met a fairy boy in the Spirit Temple who stole the Silver Gauntlets, which was not the case before he traveled back in time. The change may be minor, but it creates a distinct branched timeline and Link forever abandons the Prime Timeline, never to return.

>>6466793
yeah sorry I was using headcanon wrong, you're right it should be in cases of REFUTING what is explicit in the OC.

>>6466794
How does the well act as a battery though.. would make sense if it was some hydro rig with running water.

>>6466918
>How does the well act as a battery though
Quite well!

>>6466930
10/10 execution, take my updoot

>>6465448
I don't know why that theory gets as much contention as it does. Ruto and Darunia are both like "OK time for me to fight the boss for my people" then they're completely gone save for a presence in the sacred realm. Them motherfuckers dead.

>>6466994
I think for those two it's canon, but they left enough "possibility" of them being alive to not make it too real for kids, and it worked for me because I bought into it.

>>6466891
>The timeline he travels to the future of is one in which Nabooru met a fairy boy in the Spirit Temple who stole the Silver Gauntlets, which was not the case before he traveled back in time
Except that is explicitly disproven by the man in the windmill who had met child link before you actually travel back to meet him, meaning Nabooru had, in fact, always met Link in the future.

>>6463535

>>6466994
You know, looking back on it, I think you have me convinced. Especially in Darunia's case.

>>6467015
>Except that is explicitly disproven by the man in the windmill who had met child link before you actually travel back to meet him
Honestly I feel like that just has to be disregarded because by that logic then Gannondorf should also already have been arrested in the past with Child Link's accusations. That grandfather paradox stuff fucks with EVERYTHING and the idea of branching timelines is far more logically consistent with how every other thing in the game works. The Song of Storms is the only time that device is used.

Child Timeline is the primary timeline. Adult timeline is the secondary timeline. Downfall Timeine is a "what-if" timeline.

>>6467091
Downfall Timeline has no reason to exist if you assume two Ganons.

>>6466750
that always bugged me as a kid: why make link go through all this shit if the goddesses can still troll ganon anyway

>>6467058
Your theory would seemingly require at least 4 canonical timelines

Original
modified adult nabooru
modified adult lens of truth
Link's return to before the Temple is open

>>6465801
>would they grow with him?
I don't think so, it's like a Peter Pan reference.

>>6467375
I mean before the game; were all the NPCs 2 years old when Link was? or were they the same fairy kid 12 yo's? If they are truly wooden children/shapeshifters then they would match link's age.

>>6467584
Remove remove

>>6463506
Majora gets the credit for having muh deep story but I've always thought OoT had a much better story with darker, more depressing elements. If you think about it, OoT Link is the most tragic character in the series. An orphan left to live among woodland elves who treat him like an outsider, blamed for the death of the guardian forest spirit who he tried to help, braves three dungeons in hopes of getting the master sword and preventing Ganon from destroying the world, only to realize that acquiring the master sword was the very thing that Gannon wanted him to do. After countless trials and finally beating Ganon as intended, he then returns to his childhood with his newfound knowledge and power, hoping to stop Ganon before he could ever take over... but in doing so, nobody would remember anything he did. A selfless hero that traveled through time to correct his own mistake, and never to be honored for it. That's fucking sad.

>>6466740
Well. I'm glad then, and I think it's a given too but so far, I haven't seen this interpretation a lot.
People love to ramble on about Majora's mask and link being dead but I haven't seen a lot writing about Link's awakening

>>6467287
I'm pretty sure it's possible to beat the game with only traveling back in time once if you know what you're doing. You could get the Lens of Truth in the same run as meeting Nabooru. You're right that Link's travel back to before the temple is opened creates another new split, but it's just effectively creating another trashed "Link disappears and Ganon wins" timeline in doing so, so it's unnecessary to focus on. In the end you can boil it down to Child Success Timeline, Adult Success Timeline, and Hero "Falls" Timeline(s).

>>6467786
Being a hero is often thankless. I suppose that's why they're so rare.

>>6467786

I had this same thought, especially since it's basically canon how much this affected him in the Hero's Shade's bitterness. No matter how noble and selfless you are, being unacknowledged after so much sacrifice will turn the most wholesome person bitter

>>6468185
You can’t, you need the lens of truth to reach the desert colossus and young link can only reach the spirit temple through teleportation meaning you have to enter the temple as an adult before becoming a child and you have to get the lens of truth as a child before doing so.

>>6468257
Ah, shit, you're right. Regardless, it just results in more failed timelines where Ganon wins because the hero disappeared, so they all have the same outcome and could be said to collapse into a single timeline or that they're just exactly the same from there out which makes it functionally equivalent since you could just pick any one of them and see the same future results.

>>6468583
imo the past and future are intrinsically causally linked due to the Temple of Time, i.e the man in the windmill.
The only reason why an adult and child timeline form is because Zelda sends you back at the end of the game to a point prior to these events. She basically says as much, that you must "close the Door of Time" which closes, by her words, "the road between times." It's this event that separates the timelines from each other, not the actual act of time-travel.

>>6469002
It's not an unreasonable explanation, it's just that it doesn't leave room for the downfall timeline to be "real" in-universe, which is why I'm not a fan. I totally get what you're saying though and I can't really disagree in any other way than to say I just prefer to explain it a different way.

>>6463994
>>6464118
>>6464139
The Rito came about because the OoT manga included an OC bird race and Aonuma thought something like that would be a good idea for Zelda, they weren't conceptualized prior to that

>>6469083
My take on the Downfall timeline is here >>6465647
I also get what you're saying, and it does make sense. I personally just don't like the idea that everytime you go to the past you are essentially dooming the world, especially considering the game forces you do this. I don't think that was an intended implication.

Twinrova is a milf

>>6469002

So in the adult timeline - Everyone knows about the hero but he just has vanished, and there is no child link that grows up to be heroic? Does the child link not exist, or do they become some NPC without the call to action?

>>6465643
One theory I heard somewhere once is that the Kokiri looking humanish was just an illusion done by the Deku tree, possibly to make the Hyllians spare them?

>>6463506
Who was he and what was his fucking problem?

>>6470063
He's the son of the head carpenter and he's upset by how disgusting people are.

Whats the explanation for the Song of Storms paradox?

>>6470213
the devs thought it would be neat and didn't really think it through

>>6470063
>>6470073
He's also the Cucoo girl's brother.
Not sure who the mother is.

>>6469608
In the adult timeline, child Link existed as he does in all the others up until the point where he enters the Temple of Time. Then he pops out seven years later as adult Link and defeats Ganon. Then when Link returns to the past he effectively disappears from the adult timeline.

>>6465647
There is no "Downfall" timeline. There's simply the old timeline consisting of the first four games, and then there's the new split timeline started by Ocarina of Time which almost all games released afterwards have followed.

>>6470359
Except that's not quite accurate, since he does have to exit again at the very least to go to the Bottom of the Well and Desert Temple.

>>6470379
That makes sense except for the fact that Ocarina of Time is almost certainly either coterminous with or directly proceeding the Imprisonment War that's mentioned at the beginning of ALttP
>>6470383
Well my main point is that the adult timeline has Link basically disappearing from Hyrule instead of getting old or dying.

>>6470385
>That makes sense except for the fact that Ocarina of Time is almost certainly either coterminous with or directly proceeding the Imprisonment War that's mentioned at the beginning of ALttP
They don't actually match up at all. There's no Knights of Hyrule, the Triforce functions differently when Ganondorf first gets it, and how he gets it is completely different, too. The only thing they have in common is the involvement of Sages to stop Ganondorf/Ganon.

OoT took bits and pieces of the lore from the previous games and turned them into a single narrative. It's essentially a hard reboot of the whole series.

>>6470063
>Who was he and what was his fucking problem?
His named was Base D. Redpilled.

>>6470063
>>6470073
>>6470304
This thing is either his mother or grandma depending on how you interpret dialogue during the trade quest.

>>6470063
considering it's implied that the carpenters are gay I'm gonna say>>6470405is right, and he hates homosexuals

>>6470063

based My Twisted World man.
So what happened to him? Did he commit suicide by forest? Was he the dropout reject son of the carpenter who turned to mushrooms and liberalism? Did he become someone in the future?

>>6465107
Link's Awakening is a gnostic allegory

>>6465107
Marin is a Siren, likely specifically created by the Wind Fish as part of his subconscious desire to wake.
>The Siren Instruments can wake the Wind Fish, but it's her song that brings them all together.
>She's clearly not the same as the other dream-people, in that she questions her reality and at one point even tries to wake the Wind Fish herself.
>Like the Sirens of myth, she represents the temptation for Link to abandon his quest and stay with her forever in a world made just for them. Of course, Link stands true to his task and wakes the Wind Fish, but the deity rewards Marin for her service by letting her live in the real world.

I headcanon that she can transform freely between human and seagull, since it'd be a pretty sucky reward to be always stuck as a filthy gull, plus it matches up nicely with the non-GBC bonus scene.

>>6469107
Interesting, so I guess the Kokiris were going to be the race associated with Wind, the Wind Temple was indeed supposed to be inside the Forest then.

Saria has a green bush pubes and she blows links skin flute while hes sleeping. Link does not wear underpants.

>>6470595
Saria is 10, you're going to jail.
Anyways Link only has eyes (or should I say, a nose) for Malon.

>>6470408

Damn. I always thought of grandma, that's why it sold me on him being young cause he looks like the grandpa from courage the cowardly dog

>>6470664
What's happening here?

>>6470523
What if seagull Marin took a white wet poop on your head haha

>>6470671
Do you have eyes? Malon is getting her feet tickled.

>>6470739
dude you're going to prison

>>6463935
>"the N64 Zeldas are my fave horror games that scarred me for life"

always thought that it was fucking weird if you think these games are oh so unsettling. I don't get it.

>>6470523
Marin is just literally a seagull trapped in the dream in the same way that Link is. I believe she and Link are the only two real minds trapped in the dream and all the other people are pure dream constructs. That's why they're the only two questioning their reality or wishing to escape.

>>6467015
i think the song of storms bit is meant to not make sense. the mindfuckery is why the guy working it gets so pissed

>>6470063
he's just some kakariko incel projecting his own insecurities about his looks onto everyone else

>>6470956
the zombies in the graveyard, shadow temple, the dungeon at the bottom of the well, the forest temple, the fire temple with the arabic chants, there's a ton of horror or atmospheric themes in the game

the only zelda games that kept that sense of unsettling themes was OoT-MM-WW

>>6471430
It's no more unsettling than a carnival haunted house.

>>6471430
I've seen a handful of people on /v/ acting the way you do about OoT or MM (mostly MM however) and I'm just letting you know it makes no sense. Or perhaps you don't know actual horror games.

>>6471705
pretty much my point.

>>6470523
>>6471276
I like both of these theories...
I also like the theory that she was a dream but somehow gained independance and was able to go into the real world, because there's no difference between dream and "reality" in eastern religions.

For example, this well-known taoist legend

Once, Zhuang Zhou dreamed he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering about, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know that he was Zhuang Zhou.

俄然覺,則蘧蘧然周也。不知周之夢為胡蝶與,胡蝶之夢為周與。周與胡蝶,則必有分矣。此之謂物化。
Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuang Zhou. But he didn't know if he was Zhuang Zhou who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming that he was Zhuang Zhou.

>>6471712
it isn't that it is truly supremely horrifying, it is that it contrasts with more upbeat aspects of the game and is uncanny and surreal in relation
and besides, the well (which has a blood soaked guillotine and unleashes a headless malevolent spirit to become boss of the shadow temple) there is the zombies in destroyed castle town, the dragon that eats gorons, the haunted ruins in the forest, ect

>>6471712
>>6471705
"horror themes" aren't 1:1 with horror, however, you cannot look at someone like the zombies in this game that latch on to link or even the skulltullas and not admit there are perfectly recognizable horror elements in the game

didn't even mention the actual boss in the well or the wallmasters (or whatever their name was) in the forest temple

outside of a RE2 port and doom64 there were also no real horror games on the n64

>>6471786
None of which is a big deal at all, considering that the first half-hour of the game has you do nothing but watch as the Deku Tree dies before your eyes while he speaks of an evil man riding his horse through flames.

Nothing uncanny or surreal at all, just typical "dark fantasy" tropes.

>>6471712
>and I'm just letting you know it makes no sense. Or perhaps you don't know actual horror games.

also, you are just being pedantic and dismissive; with all the elements in OoT I just pointed out there are far more "horror" elements in OoT than any of the other zelda games

>>6471803
you're being disingenuous, I really hate your type

>>6471803
and what is dark fantasy, my pedantic friend? fantasy with horrific or surrealistic elements.

you even have the zombies attacking at midnight in the fields, the poe ghosts, and so on.

>>6471816
Which makes it not special or unique at all.

>>6471820
I was not arguing for what is "special" or "unique", I was explaining to you why many felt OoT was the scariest game they played on the N64 (and many of them being children at the time).

Try to pay attention through the buttpain, buddy.

>>6470213
This is one the biggest issues right now with how Ocarina of Time is supposed to have three divergent timelines.
As said earlier, when adult link goes back in time, it creates a divergent dead timeline in which adult link disappears. This is the timeline when Ganondorf wins.

The problem is you need to go back in time *technically* only once, but realistically I feel it'd make sense for Link to go back twice. Link needs to be a child to drain the well and get lens of truth, and to get the silver gauntlets.

Adult Link would arrive at Kakariko village and see the monster in the well, learn song of storms, go back in time and have child link play it to drain the well, then he would do that mini dungeon, become an adult again and do the Shadow Temple. I don't believe it'd make sense story-wise for him to learn the song, say "eh I'll deal with it later" then go do all the Gerudo crap to learn the teleportation song, THEN become child link and get the gauntlets and lens of truth.

Of course the Song of Storms is something of a paradox despite that, but that's one other issue I thought to bring up with it.
My Head Canon is that the Goddess of Time was able to collapse all the failed timelines into one, but for whatever reason wasn't able to condense all the three timelines into one happy one.
Slightly related regarding Majora's Mask is another head canon and Goddess of Time. It's impossible for Link to help everyone in one three day cycle, more or less (the side quests), so my theory is the Goddess of Time collapses all the good bits from every reset into one. I also think she trims all the doomed timelines. Why can she trim those but not the bad timeline in Ocarina of Time? My theory there is because the Triforce is involved, which embodies the power of the raw gods of creation for whom the Goddess of Time is said to be under on the totem pole. This is a bit of a stretch but in reality if the Song of Storms paradox wasn't around things would be a lot cleaner.

Anyways, what was lost from OoT was that foreboding sense of dark fantasy in the rest of the games. Majora's Mask still had it, but it was more "surreal" without the clear horror elements that OoT had.

WW kinda kept that sense of whimsy with the Korocks or whatever, but Twilight Princess was an attempt (and hard failure) to replicate what made OoT so memorable. Skyward Sword and BotW feel like a different series.

>>6470739

>>6471850
Yeah I always believed it was just a timeline convergence, makes sense.

>>6471851
Zelda can't do awe or wonder anymore so of course it can't do that uncanny darkness you're talking about. Can you imagine a Zelda game with God of War's sense of scale and love of esoteric megastructures? A story with actual pathos, show me what god-like power actually looks like after 10 hours of rustic pastoralism, etc.

Give it up. It's a wrap. Decrepit Japanese pedophile child-men have destroyed everything great about Nintendo.

>>6471881
OK, Malon is getting her sweaty and stinky feet tickled. Happy?

>>6472119
They don't look sweaty or stinky.

>>6472126
How about now?

>>6472130
they look like she's getting burned :(

>>6472158
people who have a foot fetish should be put to death

>>6471995
>t. literally Darksiders

>>6471885
The problem is that even with this case the Song of Storms paradox exists.
Adult link finds Music Man who already knows the song, but for him to know it he has to travel back in time to teach it. For him to teach it to Link, he has to be already be taught it by Link.

It's the classic Bootstrap paradox, but does that have any meaningful explanations that could apply here or no?

>>6472278
majora's mask has a origin for the song and is a parrellel world based on converging timelines

>>6463849
Hold on. All Sages are dead?

>>6472346
You see them all again on the mountain in the ending.

>>6472348>>6472346
considering they are sages and a lot of them vanish after facing a boss that isn't dead when you go into their sanctum
yes
they get hunted down by the ganon 1337

>>6471851
>>6471995
What changed is that you fucking GREW UP

>>6472361
Only to still be alive and well enough to aid in sealing Ganondorf away in the finale.

>>6472346
they die in their temples and re-awaken as spirits

>>6472261
he says as he jerks to the hole that shit comes out of
Anyways back on topic. What was that globglogabgalab looking motherfucker doing at the bottom of the well?

>>6472158
If that were the case she wouldn't be smiling.

>>6472371
*from the sacred realm
a place that ordinary mortals cannot go
but spirits, especially sages can

>>6472346
Anyone read the works of Hans Christian Andersen? One of his favorite motifs is death as a transformative act where the dying individual is "reborn" or "awakened" as their true self, e.g. the Little Mermaid throwing herself into the sea and rising from its foam as an Air-nymph or the Ugly Duckling drowning in the depths of the lake before reemerging as a beautiful swan.

I'd like to imagine that this is how a Sage's awakening goes, it's an ascension to the true self interpreted as an act of dying. With some of them it's more obvious like Darunia straight up waltzing into the boss room. Coincidentally Andersen also frequently used the terms sleep/awaken as euphemisms for death/rebirth.

>>6472434
I love this

>>6472382
>muh fetish is healthy
fuck off faggot, dicks belong in holes not on useless tissues, fuckable holes are not a kink or mentall illness like your foot fetish, it's the standard

>>6470523
>I headcanon that she can transform freely between human and seagull
I like this one because it's fittingly uplifting. The Windfish was doing her a favor not trapping her in animal form

Something fucky is going on with these guys but I can't pinpoint it

>>6472346
I guess Zelda's the exception, if she's considered a sage, but yes. It's left somewhat ambiguous, but consider the following:

Darunia:
>stands outside Volvagia's room and tells Link he will take care of it
>runs into the boss room and the door locks behind him
>Link goes in after him and he's nowhere to be seen
>defeats Volvagia and ports to the Temple of Light
>Darunia: "I've awakened as a Sage."

Ruto:
>meets Link in the middle of the Water Temple and tells Link she's here to investigate what's going on
>swims deeper into the temple and is not seen again
>Link defeats Morpha and ports to the Temple of Light
>Ruto: "I've awakened as a Sage."

Nabooru:
>is captured by the witches
>is used in some ambiguous way to help the witches become Twinrova
>Link defeats Twinrova and ports to the Temple of Light
>Nabooru: "I've awakened as a Sage."

Impa:
>sees shit going down in the Shadow Temple
>runs in to try to solve it
>is not seen inside the temple
>Link defeats Bongo Bongo and ports to the Temple of Light
>Impa: "I've awakened as a Sage."

I dunno, man, it seems pretty weird to assume they're all alive and well. I always read the phrase "awakened as a sage" as a euphemism for their spirit returning after death, even when I was a kid.

>>6472541
>I guess Zelda's the exception, if she's considered a sage
Uh, she is. She outright tells you that she's the seventh who leads the rest.

And you see them all back in Hyrule in the ending, plus at least two of them have descendants of sorts in Wind Waker.

>>6472549
you see them ominously overlooking the celebration from a clifftop, and then they beam away

>>6472549
This: >>6472560
If they were alive I'd expect them to return and party with everyone else and go back to their lives. There's no other reason for them to stay in the Sacred Realm and not interact with anyone.

>>6472445
What's the worst thing about feet? They're smelly if you don't wash them?
Doesn't the exact same thing apply to your precious assholes and pussies?
Only that assholes have the added aspect of literally having shit come out of them.
Next time you're jerking to an anus like a braindead normalfag, remember that disgusting, slimy, noxious, foul-smelling and literally poisonous logs of shit plopped out of that same hole into a toilet bowl somewhere. Possibly mere minutes before you started pounding your pud.
Anyways, back on fucking topic. What was this nigga doing "shwabble-dabble-wabble-gabble flibba blabba blab"ing around at the bottom of the well?

>>6472571
What's wrong with wanting to just enjoy a quiet celebration in silence, away from all the excitement? Even King Zora and Mido just sit there quietly.

>>6472581
Nothing, but usually in fiction when a group of people stands away from a celebration and then magically vanishes it's because they're some kind of apparition or ghost.

>>6472606
>It's just like this old cliche, so it must be the answer because it's so mysterious and eerie.
I never once believed any sage to have died in OoT. Their job is done, they enjoyed a quiet moment of reflection, and then they warped out to resume their own lives with their people.

>>6472348
those are thier spirits who fly thru the air and dont interact with any of the living people in the scene

>>6472629
So you think. We all have our own perspectives.

>>6472573
you do not fuck feet
you'd dont fuck asshole
you fuck mouths and pussies
or you deserve to fucking die

>>6472637
do you also hate boobs because you cant fuck them? gay

>>6472646
thighs and tits are good too
but no god damned feet
I should chop them off and wear them for luck

>>6472635
Mask Guy is a lucid dreamer. He is aware that he is inside a dream.

>>6472613
They have literally become enlightened and then they vanish into a bowl of light like the prophets in the bible (Enoch? Elie? Christ?)
Nintendo wasn't so sanitized back then. They went to the Zelda version of the Pure earth/heaven

>>6463506
The Triforce is a collectable item in every gold cartridge of OoT.

>>6472747
You can believe it however you want.

>>6472765
Likewise. Very bizarre to think OOT could be so *surface level* after a game like link's awakening

>>6472573
>remember that disgusting, slimy, noxious, foul-smelling and literally poisonous logs of shit plopped out of that same hole into a toilet bowl somewhere. Possibly mere minutes before you started pounding your pud.
thanks, i will
now if you'll excuse me

>>6472573
>>6472842
-- and before you go off at me, the difference between me and footfags is that i know i'm weird
i don't talk about scat everywhere because i know people won't appreciate it
but you foot people just can't help yourselves

>>6472757
we're discussing theories and headcanons and the emphasis lies on truth and not falsehood bullshit.

>>6472346
completely dead. at least their incarnation in hyrule. the spirits are bound in the temple of light or their respective temples. that must actually suck. Come to think of it, wasn't Rauru a dead motherfucker for a long time before you met him anyway? it's not like you meet this guy in the church doing a mess or something.

oh well, but at least you can still talk to Saria with your Navi-Phone.

>>6471430
Agreed definitely spooky when you're a kid.

>>6471328
He became skull kid and attacked the Stacy that is Link.

>>6471806
>I just pointed out there are far more "horror" elements in OoT than any of the other zelda games

no.

>>6472581
>Even King Zora and Mido just sit there quietly.
Likely mourning the loss of Ruto and Saria. Hyrule is saved, but their loved ones are still dead.

>>6472965
he's right you know

>>6472541
>THEY VANISHED
Geeze it's almost like they entered the sacred realm or something
Is Rauru dead too?

>>6472965
>I ain't afraid of no ghosts

>>6471812
he really isn't.

>>6471816
the problem is on an aesthetic level. OoT is kinda too cartoony for it to be even slightly as horrifying as some /v/fags want to force.

>>6471786
>it is that it contrasts with more upbeat aspects of the game and is uncanny and surreal in relation

I disagree with that. that's just purely a subjective notion of yours. the game is silly as shit and more of a staged simulation than anything with its clunky n64 physics. hence why I wouldn't feel like I'm getting such a crazy amount of immersion up to the point where I'm feeling like it's crazy distressing or so surreal that I'm insanely creeped out or jumpy (not even with whatever "contrast" you speak of). I mean it has its horroresque moments, sure, and you can get an amount of genuine confusion or feeling puzzled by the way these games behave but it's not the first thing I think about when writing about OoT and MM. In terms of art direciton it's a well-balanced mix of bright and dark elements. the jarring things they don't show that you think about aren't exactly meant to be thought about. your impression of OoT as a game bringing forward its horror elements would make sense if it had a genuine pegi rating of 18+ but it doesn't. it just isn't mature enough for that in its presentation.

>>6473002
you fuckwads that write off all the spookville elements of OoT with your manly man act of I ai'nt calling no Bill Murry ghostbusters are dishonest af

>>6473007
whatever. you have your perception of things. it's fine. I guess it would have more of an impact on you as a kid but that wasn't really the case for me.

>>6472983
>Is Rauru dead too?
There's no reason to think he's alive.

>>6473002
They played the game as a kid and now that they're grown up they want you to believe OOT was some serious scary shit.
TV-Tier does the same
"nightmare fuel" lmao

>>6473025
Other than him constantly popping up in the form of an owl to say hi.

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/the_message_of_majoras_mask1/

>>6473067
Yes, because living humans so frequently appear as giant owls.

>>6473067
>what is a spirit animal

>>6473002
>too cartoony

this nigga probably think junji ito isn't scary cuz it looks anime

>>6473116
As opposed to dead humans?

>>6473162
>comparing Junji ito to OOT


Nintendrones have no shame

>>6473019
it's not even a matter of differing perspectives, you guys are straight up not crediting OoT for all the dark shit in it

>>6473168
It makes more sense for the transcended spirit of a dead human to appear in the world I'm the form of a giant talking owl.

>>6472856
yeah well I hide my power level IRL so I'm fine
And don't act like you have the moral high ground for not talking about your love of shit here. This website is one of the few places you can talk about any of your legal perversions and not have it tied back to (You) which will then suffer ridicule and humiliation for the rest of your life, which is something most footfags don't get elsewhere.
Meanwhile you disgusting ass people get a pass because most of society has monkey brains that go "ooh ooh aah aah ass big and round"

So is anyone gonna answer my question? Did he think he was the yeast of thoughts and mind or what?

>>6473615
Why is he able to command these hands? Is he an amalgum of many corpses as opposed to just one.?

>>6465598
Link was depressed that he never got to be seen as a hero in his life. He probably staked out into the Lost Woods one last time in his old age and died a Stalfos than going back to a world that forgot him.

>>6473612
the point i'm making is that people even here don't want to hear about how much you like feet, it's not on topic, and it's digusting

>>6473693
and he should perish from the wrath of a fierce deity's righteousness

>>6473693
yet you'll hear about it and much worse so cope, seethe and dial 8 and also
>>6473712
stop samefagging

>>6473612
>imagine thinking you're intellectually superior for having your "monkey brain" find feet hot and not butts
Amazing footfag cope

>>6473785
Maybe because I am?

>>6463517
>>6463506
The mysterious owls in Zelda come from Twin Peaks. They were introduced in Link's Awakening and Miyamoto or someone said Twin Peaks inspires the mysterious villagers, but didn't mention the owls. Owls are one of the most iconic Twin Peaks thing.

>>6473693
Yet you'll continue to hear about it and much worse so cope, seethe, dial 8, etc.
In fact you could really benefit from listening to this song:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/udfHqMbC4NIt/
And lastly
>>6473712
stop samefagging

>>6473790
>clinging to other people's glory because they share your mental illness
Pathetic, no better than autists thinking they are superior because one guy that make it big was one

>>6473790
>i'm like Dostoevsky cause I jerk off to feet

lol FUCKING americans man

>>6473795
Not him but have some self awareness your joke tier fetish drags down the quality of the thread

>>6472458
I'm pretty sure they're in a gang hence the snake patter on tingles back

>>6471309
I hate that people don't get that the Song of Storms ISN'T a paradox.

It's not that the windmill guy had never heard the song before Child Link played it; he's actively playing it all the time inside the Windmill. What he's mad about and doesn't understand is why a kid showing up and playing the same song he always plays on an ocarina fucked up his Windmill.

>>6473796
>>6473805
>>6473798
>>6473785
>>6473693
>>6473712
>>6472856
>>6472445
>>6472261
>BAWWWWW STOP LIKING FEET! ABLOO BLOO BLOO!

>>6473810
>wojak strawman
>liking
no one is telling you to stop enjoying your stupid shit, they are just stating their opinions on how stupid it is or telling you to fuck off to a proper feet thread and stop shoving it here looking for acceptance because you deep down know you like something abnormal and can't cope with it, cry harder

>>6473821
>you deep down know you like something abnormal and can't cope with it
Says the guy who bops his baloney to scat. Bye Felicia.

>>6473832
>muh scatman boogeyman
he lives rent free in your head, not the shit eater but the fact you have to go for such low hanging fruit to try at making a point just shows how desperate you're, I can give the scatfag and his kin credit over not bringing their fetish to video game discussions because they know no everyone likes their shit as not everyone gives a shit about feet, in fact footfags go over the radar lots of time because normal people literally take you for a joke.

>>6473832
SCAT IS THE PUREST FORM OF LOVE, DICKHEAD. IT SHOWS THAT YOU TRUST YOUR PARTNER SO UNCONDITIONALLY THAT YOU'D WORSHIP EVEN THEIR BODILY WASTE. READ A FUCKING BOOK, DUDE.

>>6472458
Only one of these guys is his actual brother. The other two straight up tell you that Tingle kidnapped them and forced them to stay trapped on his island.

>>6473845
>>6473846
then why don't you guys shut the goddamn fuck up and talk some fucking video games?
All of these were me trying to get back on topic
>>6472382
>>6472573
>>6473615
So which ones were you, huh? Fucking hypocrites

>>6473856
Scat is inherently connected to video games. It's connected to EVERYTHING. Telling people to not talk scat is like saying don't breathe. While you play your video games, guess what? You're making scat inside your body. Scat is fucking life. Feet is just feet, you jackass.

>>6473846
>>6473863

>>6473856
Literally none of them lmao

>>6473874
He is absolutely right, did you ever go inside a game wonder why everything smells like shit?

>>6473808
has nintendo confirmed this? I always thought he played the song ever since it was played for him

>>6473832
a. not the same person
b. beside the point (not an argument)
i don't go into random threads and go "wow i just love thinking about this girl taking a shit, how about you guys?!"
this isn't a feet vs scat thing, in fact, the reason i bring it up is because it's an obvious example of a fetish nobody wants to hear, just like feet

>>6473926
ok then stop being a hypocrite and start talking about video games you fucking braindead double nigger

>>6473940
>he thinks /vr/ is for discussing videogames and not sick fetishes

>>6473485
Lmao dude, read what you just wrote.

personally I assumed all the Sages were spirits returned, and Zelda is the only living sage able to commune with the dead

at least it's the goron and the gerudo who died and "Awakened". saria, rito and the rest might still be living sages. the medallion's release and the awakening seem to be the only things that matter, even affecting the sages beyond life and death.

>>6473956
could you be anymore of a flaming faggot

>>6475846
he's right you know

>>6464001
>Cumbrain
Go back to /v/

>>6475948
How did you bypass the filter?

I also picked up the sages dying thing when I played the game in 98. It's got heavy circumstantial evidence

>>6476551
Yeah, I thought it was set in stone that they died. As a kid playing on release, they disappearing that way during the scenes are a big insinuation.

>>6463517
Anon, this thread is for headcanon not real canon.

>>6472972
Yeah this was heavy, though could apply whether they're dead or not

>>6465367
SO they say that twinrova are Ganondorf's surrogate or adoptive mothers, what is Ganondorf's backstory in this game? He's the only male so he's the default ruler, but was there any narrative to his life that lead him to plot to take over hyrule?

>>6478576
Is this confirmed

>>6479115
>SO they say that twinrova are Ganondorf's surrogate or adoptive mothers, what is Ganondorf's backstory in this game? He's the only male so he's the default ruler, but was there any narrative to his life that lead him to plot to take over hyrule?
There's nothing plot-wise but I assume Ganondorf either fought in the civil war 10 years prior to Ocarina or his father or mother fought in the war but died which led him to resent Hyrule

>Is this confirmed
one of the gossip stones hints at it, they don't say Rauru specifically but just say the owl is a reincarnation of an ancient sage

>>6479115
>SO they say that twinrova are Ganondorf's surrogate or adoptive mothers, what is Ganondorf's backstory in this game? He's the only male so he's the default ruler, but was there any narrative to his life that lead him to plot to take over hyrule?
Elaborated on at-length in Wind Waker. It is a cruel irony that the game only shines brightest in the last half-hour or so of play.

>>6473002
No video games are scary.
Knowing that, as far as games can be scary, OoT was scary for the time of you were 8 when you played it like we all were.
What I’m saying is, can you shut the fuck up? We’re not impressed that a game from 1998 doesn’t scare you as a 30 year old.

So these whole OoT is scary/not scary really proves once you miss out playing the game as a kid you fucked up

>>6479174
nah that was bullshit, Ganondorf ruled Hyrule for 7 years and not a single Gerudo is seen outside the valley, he didn't give a fuck

>>6479174

Was it the same Ganondorf?
Wind waker was great because it actually canonized lots of motivations and backstory, but in Ocarina itself was there any information? From what I remember WW addressed the poverty of the desert due to arid land and combined with being blocked off by Hyrule for uncertain reasons (racism?) the resentment grew .

>>6479168
Is this your art? Is the middle one supposed to be WW?

>>6479353
Basically, and how weird people get about the subjectivity of "fear" and how rigid they are about the definition of horror.

>>6480285
>Is this your art?
fuck no, some Japanese artist
>Is the middle one supposed to be WW?
the three Ganondorfs are OoT, WW, and TP with a younger OoT Ganondorf on the bottom and Demise from Skyward Sword behind them at the top

>>6480285
>Was it the same Ganondorf?
Of course.

>>6479358
Anon, people are capable of having more than one motivation for doing shit. Did he do it for the reasons stated in WW? Yeah...

Problem is, he *also* did it because he's a greedy, thieving, destructive fuck who always wants more. Guess which tendency won out when he realized he wasn't getting the entire Triforce? No one wants to live in a cursed and ruined kingdom, Gerudo or not.

>>6463506
mario if he real

>>6472458
5
1
3
12/0

>>6470063
name a single character who is just as memorable in a modern Zelda game

>>6480339

In WW usually he's viewed more sympathetically because of his explanation of the wrongs done to him and his tribe; using your multifactorial point, do you think he brought this up as a manipulation tactic, or he is moreso reflective in his older age and maturity?

>>6480374
The ugly incel from Skyward was pretty funny

>>6480509
>...do you think he brought this up as a manipulation tactic, or he is moreso reflective in his older age and maturity?
Both. It's my opinion that by WW, Ganondorf realizes that the Hyrule he fought over and lusted after has been marked for destruction by the Goddesses themselves. He'll do *anything* to prevent that, including attempting to negotiate with a snot-nosed little brat descended from a race he absolutely wishes he'd genocided the fuck out of.

Think of WW Ganondorf as the mentally unwell counterpoint to Daphnes Hyrule.

>>6480339
yeah no, you can have your own rationale for it but I'm still going to see it as a dumb addition made by a different writer that doesn't reflect the source material

>>6480856
I don't think Ganondorf ever stated he felt bad for his tribe, just bad for himself. It's true that it's an addition by a different author, but it's not out-of-character.

One could simply say that was just the normal "human" rationale for Ganondorf's actions, he's probably not aware he's the human incarnation of some god's literal hatred (well, which is a later retcon but whatever). Since he's a villain, it's fairly obvious he has mentally unwell traits like extreme narcissism. If he was hyrulean rather than gerudo, he'd still probably do the same thing.

>>6479353
No, it's how receptive you are to themes. I have no idea how someone can see the dungeon at the bottom of the well - a literal haunted chamber - with a giant /x/ monster as a boss and not think "yea, this was made to be scary". Or the zombies, which are well-designed for being non-resident evil zombies. Or the skulltellas, or the Poes, or the stalfos, etc.

>>6465558
>the ending is ironically the most violent one in a zelda game, so there's that.
OoT had you strike dorfs demon form and have his guts spill out and in TP he died standing in an open field

>>6480941
It's a quick initial shock at best, then you realize it's got no lasting scare value.

>>6463904

Your LARP is gay, bro.

>>6463506
Ocarina of Time is an allegory about the struggle of the Aryan race against the powers of Zion. Link and Zelda embody the stereotypical Aryan phenotype and moral belief system while Ganondorf is unsurprisingly a dark-skinned desert man with red hair and a big nose that wishes to conquer the world -- doing so through the appeasement and eventual usurption of the king's throne. Like all Jews, Ganondorf acquired his power parasitically through fooling the goyim into doing his work for him, and sought to use this power to subdue the masses and destroy his biggest threat (Hylians). The entire game becomes so much more significant when you realize that it's a fable about overcoming the Jew.

>>6479168
I find it fairly likely that Ganondorf aided the King of Hyrule in the civil war, hence why the king trusted him as an ally.

>>6480941
Kids are more receptive to themes

>>6481134
I had that perception too, as a kid you think it's black and white but clearly there was some shady stuff under the table and maybe Ganondorf was more in the right than we thought.

>>6481119
Zora are the Jews, Gorons are the blacks, Kokiri are the irish, and Gerudo are the Arabs, Sheikah are the Greeks/Italians

>>6480856
You could say that about any one of them though, Anon. Only the first three Zelda games were under a single writer.

>>6481119
ah this edgelord retardation again

weird this game's about le epic race war since ganondorf's ascension into power does literally nothing for the rest of the gerudo he clearly abandoned. speaking of which, nabooru (one of da JOOZ despite that the gerudo are obviously arab if anything) is a sage which is the highest honor in hyrule outside of goddess-hood. in fact the entire sage chamber is basically a magical U.N. with all hyrule's races and cultures equally represented. and all of them come together and party at the end so i really don't think the political point of oot if anything is ethnostates good racewar good edgy thing good just because a white guy fights a brown guy in it

>>6465558
You *do* realize the game was actually taking a direct shot at fans like you with some of the endgame themes, right? Surely that bit of irony isn't lost on you...?

>>6481363
/pol/tards should be gassed. Defective human beings, only capable of seeing the world through a lens of racewar.

>>6481363
lmao @ this pseudo intellectual word soup

>>6481363
>white man frees the gentiles from the Jewish overlord
not seeing the issue here, chief

>>6481391
i already knew /pol/yps can't understand simple english
>>6481394
>white man, raised by a culture besides his race, along with assistance from members of every race of hyrule free "the gentiles" along with "the jews"
ftfy
>b-but muh white guy fighting a brown guy!!!! m-muh big nose!!!!!!!! m-muh jooz!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>6481119
Based and redpilled

>>6481431
>88 is significant because i say it is
>botw doesn't have a contrived "crime" system implemented so its muh nazi allegory. some hylian pedo guy is significant for some reason
>there's some brown people with blonde hair so therefore nazi game. p-please ignore the significantly more prominent gerudo women
>gerudos have a culture that has nothing to do with nazism therefore nazi game
>gerudos seduce retarded men to steal their rupees therefore psuedobabble about phrenology
>completely seperate culture doesn't care about some statue therefore nazi game
>muh antifa sarkeesian that lives in my head rent free
>games with stuff i dont like in them = marxism
>triforce metaphor flatout implies that the axis was incompetent. straight up calls nazi germany consciousless
you owned yourself with this one lmao
>psuedobabble about a random cosmetic set used to disguise yourself in gerudo town. somehow becomes cope about trannies
>manji = swastika.
/pol/ of course doesn't understand both the cultures they worship or the cultures they seethe over
>muh link praying cause random pieces of concept art are canon which would make mario a muslim
>japanese media uses religious iconography (typical, pretty much always lacking political subtext) in certain items therefore muh nazi game
>random trans cope about shiek therefore nazi game
>M-MUH BIG NOSE despite that gerudo women are considered the hottest in hyrule, all having equally big noses to ganon
>some random guy reading some jewish shit therefore nazi game
>MUH ARYAN LINK as he uses brown hair, brown eyes zelda 1 link as reference
>some old fag from concept art selling stuff = JOOZ despite that he's obviously white which debunks the gerudo = joo meme
>two blocky hyrule maps that look nothing like germany or saudi arabia (and i thought gerudo were jooz?)
>>every title with 'master' in it means master race because i say so
>nazi sword exists so therefore this random other sword is also nazi
i hit text limit but wow this is sad

>>6481431
>>6481470
>tingle and dark world great fairy are lgbt because i say so
>aonuma saying tingle isn't gay, just weird somehow means aonuma doesn't like gays or some shit? despite the whole point being that tingle isn't gay. this is contrived even by this image's standards
>muh white wind waker zelda despite THE KING OF HYRULE being brown in that very same game
the nazi fag who made this image and the nazi fags who spread it are retarded cancer

>>6481363

Link is obviously an aryan Indian, look it up.

>>6481470
>i hit text limit but wow this is sad

You hit text limit replying to an obvious joke image, but yeah okay they're the sad one

>>6481816
>nazi retard propaganda gets btfo
>i-i-i-i-it's a-a-a-a-a-a-a j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-j-joke
every time. cope harder.

>>6463506
I didn't realize how much ancient alien stuff was in the games. Granted most obvious examples came later, and most older examoles were cut like the shakkoudogu enemy in Zelda 1 (which eventually showed up in BotW along with all the other ancient alien themed tech), Zelda in LttP has concept art in a scifi outfit, and the Triforce was supposed to be a microchip.

(Shakkoudogus are a huge part of ththe ancient alien thing you see them in everything even animal crossing)

>>6481740
>look it up
nah just link me to the 9gag comment section you pulled that from

>>6481871
makes me wonder if the majora's mask aliens was at one point supposed to be a bigger thing perhaps in oot. considering how jarring it is for a zelda game and how much mm reuses assets it wouldn't surprise me

>>6481119
>>6481431

>>6481880

The URL won't work for you, it's an Indian Link

Its jarring how much more people are interested in zelda lore than the lore of so many other series

>>6481943
Are you insecure?!

>>6480535

In that case, he's basically conceding and trying his best to get the best outcome for Hyrule, in a way becoming a hero in his own way. Did he do anything wrong?

>>6482674
to me, it's more interesting because it's so barren. There's the canonical stuff with the gods etc., but the specific side character backstories and motivaitons are so minimal and tidbits are tossed aside that can be fleshed out by the imagination.

>>6479353
Played when I was 8. Only reason I hated ReDeads was because they took forever to shake off. I thought dead hand was a goofy looking fuck and laughed at his stupid face. Sorry you were a pussy.

>>6465523
Old post but I’m gonna say this cause people frequently get this wrong: Hero’s Shade is confirmed to be a past hero. Whether it’s hero of time, some other Link, or someone we’ve never even played as is left completely open. Devs have said they kept hero of time in mind when designing hero’s shade, but that’s as far as any sort of ‘confirmation’ has gone.

>>6465707
I like to think the light force is Hylia’s dormant power within Zelda.

That obviously wasnt planned during MC’s release, but retroactively it fits. Also, the opening prologue of MC is Skyward Sword’s implied epilogue.

>>6481470

>>6482986
Link is Japanese

>>6483006
The Japanese are the logical conclusion to pureblood trad Aryans

>>6481431
>Aryans are all tiny cross-dressing sissybois and little girls
>Jews are giant 8-ft tall giga-chads
damn that really makes me think

>>6465732
This was exactly my theory when the downfall timeline was revealed and translations of the jap hyrule hystoria were still rough.

I strongly prefer this idea over ‘what if he lost’ because this reasoning is tied to using time travel as a mechanism, and inadvertently causing a split. If you get into just ‘what if’ scenarios then anything can be anything and the world stops feeling solid. Im not saying that can never work but it makes me lose any sense of investment.

>>6482674
Part of it was piecing the timeline together before it got confirmed (it never should have been confirmed, huge mistake)

Also, with Nintendo and Miyamoto especially you can never be certain if any hinted lore is purposeful or accidental. Some people swear one way or the other but there’s obviously a mix. Never being quite sure if something is there makes you look harder. It does for me at least.

>>6463752
It was a civil war, so it was everybody against everybody.

The Gorons and Hylians were allies at least because Darunia and the king were sworn brothers.

The Zora are incredibly snooty and don't seem to like Hylians being in the domain.

Ganon pledges his loyalty to the king in Zelda's Garden. It's his surrender.

>>6463915
Yes and No.

Hyrule Castle was originally a dungeon but it was scrapped. The layout already existed so it was retrofitted to become the forest temple.

>>6464013
The waterfall at Zora's river is the one that controls all the water in Hyrule. Or rather, the king controls the flow.

>>6464067
It's not explicitly stated, but it's very much like a fairy tale. They're really dark but not explicitly so.

>>6465523
It's the Hero of Time, but only looks like a skeleton because he's a ghost.

>>6483518
is this confirmed?

>>6483596
I'll never accept that because the design is so off from what he looks like in oot. Sounds like some BS 'lore' nintendo came up with after the fact.

>>6465707
Minish/Four Swords is its own canon. The "Light Force" essentially is the Triforce in all but name because Capcom was mostly just taking Nintendo's assets and repurposing them.

>>6465523
The Hero's Shade isn't a stalfos, though. He's clearly a ghost, with a skeletal face, yes, but Stalfos aren't ever transparent or have ghostly flesh like he does.

>>6465684
The Light Force is just another name for the spirit of Hylia within Zelda which gives her her powers. It also means that Zelda is the only candidate for the Triforce of Wisdom.

>>6465707
Light Force is Zelda's power gifted by Hylia.

>>6483606
People change their clothes over time, there's zero reason to think the hero of time wouldn't eventually change into something more fitting of a knight when he aged beyond being a twink. Besides, it doesn't make sense that the Hero's Shade would be anyone else based on what he tells you.

>>6483632
Since its a vidja game Nintendo couldve kept his clothing recognizable in the design so he wouldnt seem so alien
Also how did he get back from Termina?

>>6483640
The ending to MM shows Link riding Epona through the Lost Woods, so most likely that way.

This is how I see the timeline debate.

Original timeline
>A Link to the Past
>Link's Awakening
>A Link Between Worlds
>Legend of Zelda
>Zelda II: Adventure of Link

Rebooted timeline
>Skyward Sword
>Ocarina of Time
Post-OoT child split
>Majora's Mask
>Twilight Princess
Post-OoT adult split
>Wind Waker
>Phantom Hourglass
>Spirit Tracks

Four Swords timeline
>Minish Cap
>Four Swords
>Four Swords Adventure

Self-contained games (can't be reasonably placed anywhere)
>Oracle of Seasons/Ages
>Breath of the Wild

>>6467584
>>6467772
There was actually a nice theory around these triforces, it claimed that the Stone Tower Temple was made to mock the godesses of the triforce,this angered the godesses which resulted in them erasing all knowledge relating to them from Termina and separating it from all the other lands.

>>6483483
Darunia and the King were sworn brothers? Is that mentioned somewhere between the two sections as a segue?

>>6483483
Civil wars can be multi-fronted OR over a concept / law that results in 2 sides (For/Against like North vs South in the states).
What you say about Ganon's pledge is interesting that it's his surrender, I think that's what I understood of it anyway. But is it a "surrender" or more a customary greeting / show of good faith.

>>6482907
Pretty sure it's confirmed to be hero of time at some point, but was it only by the Devs behind the scenes and not in the game itself?

And side note - Where did the "88" post go, do mods actually delete certain posts after they're reported or something?

>>6483616
This idea that the Hero's Shade is a stalfos drives me fricking insane. The Hero' shade is...a fucking shade! They didnt just make the word up. OoT was full of Greek shit. And you can see his ghost body. People are dumb as shit.

>>6483349
The timeline in the Hyrule Historia was never supposed to be concrete and literal. It was a huge mistake though because now people think its literal. It's supposed to he an account of history hence HISTORIA. It's supposed to be the most accurate account of history as historians could gather at that time period like real prehistory. Theres a blurb and preface to the timeline that says this.

>>6483687
Yeah. When Link enters Darunia's room he is very angry because he thought an emissary of the king, his sworn brother, was come. But it was only a kid.

And yeah, Ganondorf's pledge is mostly like a show of good will/faith. Like the war was over by that point, but it's still very recent.

>>6481871
>Zelda in LttP has concept art in a scifi outfit
Anyone got this pic? Wonder if it was going to have more time travel elements originally or something

>>6483601
Yeah, and it was supposed to house the Master Sword. The concept was later reused in Wind Waker.

>>6483606
Well, there's a couple of reasons he looks so different. And they're all metaphorical:

Link is always a shortie elf, including Ocarina.

He's huge, wise, and imposing. He's a hero of legend and to the new hero he's got a lot to live up to.
He teaches you special skills that are mostly useful against Darknuts and has the same body and animations.
His different clothing also symbolizes how far he's gone in life as not only a hero but as a soldier.

>>6483613
Not really, it mostly refers to the power of Hylia within Zelda. Not necessarily the Triforce.

>>6483917
That feels like a pretty flimsy argument considering how little thought probably went into using the term shade, and who knows that the original japanese word even was. The last time we see him he was looking for someone he lost (presumably navi who left the at the end of OoT) in a forest (presumably deep in the lost woods), then suddenly he shows up with a skeleton face and a round shield like the stalfos use. I think it's pretty obvious what happened. The ghost stuff is weird but considering everything else it's safest to say that it was just a stylistic thing to make him appear special or mysterious or that his spirit stuck around in the body more so than more people who become stalfos because he's the hero of time and is magic or whatever.

>>6483640
>>6483632
Also, the Hero's Tunic is already being worn by TP Link. It's not the same exact design, but it's implied to be the same tunic.

>>6484009
That's just a retcon brought on by Skyward Sword. The Light Force is literally a knockoff Triforce that Capcom made up for their Four Sword games and at the time was not meant to be anything else.

>>6483983
I suppose it was going to be something very similar to Chrono Trigger based on the design choices.

>>6484020
Well, Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, and Breath of the Wild all had the same director.

>>6484029
Doesn't mean shit.

>>6484030
It means it's canon regardless of what you may think .

Great thread. It reminds me of browsing zelda universe back in the day.

>>6483939
No fan theory before that would've ever come up with the hero fails timeline. But I think we all know that was an asspull retcon by Nintendo. Every promo setting infodump about OoT upon its release said it was set before ALTTP but greedy ol' Nintendo when making TWW and TP wanted to leech off OoT's air and success by also having them set afterwards, despite it not making sense if they were in between

I want a zelda completely centered around an old link paired with young link dynamic, kudos+ if they're from alternative timelines

>>6483982
Ohh I thought you meant the King of the Zoras.

>>6483939
HMMMMM that's such a cop out if this is true, why even release it if you're not going to accept culpability. In hindsight I guess it's good that they did.

>>6483917
Nice you educated me

>>6484065
Thanks, any other sites with this feel rn

>>6482839
>In that case, he's basically conceding and trying his best to get the best outcome for Hyrule, in a way becoming a hero in his own way. Did he do anything wrong?
One of the strongest themes in the game is learning to let go and embrace the possibility of the new (represented by The King's realization that restoring Hyrule will completely destroy the Great Sea and its way of life) versus holding onto and idolizing the past as perfection that cannot be surpassed (represented by Ganondorf's absolute refusal to consider the Great Sea as anything more than Hyrule's pitiful shadow). Whether he did anything "wrong" greatly depends on how you reacted to the realization OOT-era Hyrule was gone forever. That's exactly what I meant by >>6481367 , Anon.

>>6484142
Yeah immediately after Skyward Sword they did Breath of the Wild which puts the entire timeline into the 'Age of Myth' making the entire thing pointless in the end.

I think the intent was to make a more solid canon so they could make Skywaed Sword the origin for Zelda but when it didn't do so well they went back on a story driven approach.

I still say there's only two timelines, and Four Swords Adventures obviously leads into A Link to the Past. That's the Ganon you fight in the Pyramid of Power, not TP Ganon.

>>6481350
where is it stated who wrote for Zelda 1 and 2?

>>6484219
FSA was very obviously a prologue to LTTP, but it got shuffled around for whatever reasons later on. Not as much of a tentpole bigname game as some of the others, so it was thrown under the bus to solve whatever inconsistencies were in it.

If you asked me like a decade ago when I was more into Zelda timeline stuff I wouldve been able to tell you exactly what those inconsistencies were, but by this point I’ve forgotten.

>>6472371
It depends on how you want to interpret the visuals considering that Zelda can cast an orb of light but the sages not only fade into existence but then become orbs of light.