/vr/ - Retro Games

>Not Star Ocean: The Second Story
Ten seconds.

>surpass D&D in the medium
Well maybe in the medium of video games but..
>it's Xenogears
Fucking lol 0/10

>>6439294
When everyone who's currently 18+ is dead and gone

>>6439294
>the potential to surpass even D&D
Bullshit
JRPGs will never be better than CRPGs.

>>6439294
Shit game is
S
H
I
T

It inspired the mecha designer from Aldnoah Zero

>>6439294
It is definitely the epitome of the classic JRPG formula, before they became single-player MMOs (FFXV, Xenoblade, etc).

>>6439763
>Xenoblade

Oh the sad irony. Takahashi really is a hack.

>>6439778
It must suck to make the best RPG ever and then only do middling work after that.

>>6439546
Every part of that statement is wrong. JRPGs are CRPGS and D&D is not a CRPG. Shit nigga, you rolled a 3 on INT.

>>6439847
Worse. Trying to remake your opus over and over again but not being able to when your former employer owns the key elements.

>>6439778
His wife was the real genius of the duo

>>6439863
Three mental break downs, one attempted suicide, complains constantly she never gets her do, and just recently admitted that her husband basically stole her story from about 15 years ago to make XCX.

>>6439294
>>6439298
>>6439301
that's not chrono TRIGGER!!!

>>6439891
Xenogears is the real Chrono Trigger 2.

>>6439894
Was supposed to be. The plot would have revolved mostly around 1999AD and 2300AD.

>>6439894
I find it hilarious that anyone would some how prefer Xenogears plot to be anymore related to Chrono Trigger than Chrono Cross, didn't Masato Kato work on both?

>>6439958
Executive fuckery changed it many a time. Even before CT2, it was supposed to have been an early draft for FF VII.

>>6439969
It was one of many outlines submitted to be considered for the plot of Final Fantasy VII, one that was not suitable but the executives liked enough to want to produce in and when they had some down time. Then it only got half produced before the resources went into FF9. It's a C tier Squaresoft game no matter how you slice it.

>>6439294
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfPHwKA1VQU

>>6440712
It went to 8. In fact, more than half their staff. Many did not like even working on it because, still to this day, Takahashi and his wife Sora still can not get their story straight.

>>6439853
holy fuck the irony in this post

>>6441478
Holy fuck, the shit of this game!

>>6441478
No irony, only facts. Let us examine them.
>JRPGs are CRPGS
Japanese computer RPGs are Computer RPGs. Fact.
>D&D is not a CRPG
Dungeons & Dragons is not a Computer RPG. Fact.
>Shit nigga, you rolled a 3 on INT.
u are a dumdum. Fact.

Bad game anon. Try Dual Orb 2.

>>6439298
>Tfw spoiled self on bloody armor abuse in SO2
>Completed all of the post game content through it
>Cant force myself to do another playthrough of SO2 again

Feels bad I can never play through it for the first time again.

>>6439716
Mechs or mecha? People who say mecha are faggot weaboos

>>6443306
This is a fact

>>6444249
That this game is shit? Yes it is.

Terrible OP or genuinly clueless. Saying that any c/jrpg in general could have surpassed DnD is like saying that Sonic could have surpassed the experience of going fast or that Doom could surpass action movies.
Either that or this is another Xenogears vs PST bait thread

Hi TheDarkId.

>>6444635
>this is another Xenogears vs PST bait thread

>>6444635
DnD fucking sucks and was never good
basically any RPG (tabletop, console, computer whatever) completely eclipses it in every regard.

>>6445092
I completely agree.

Now AD&D on the other hand...

>>6445092
extrapolate

>>6445405
Xeno a shit.

>>6439294
>you now hear the overworld music

>>6446156
Thanks

>>6439294
actually, that map is terrible compared to D&D settings like greyhawk, most jrpgs have really half-baked settings

jrpgs tend to be character-focused to the detriment of a fully fleshed out world; this is mostly practical since long-running JRPGs typically do a sequel that has little to do with the previous games (DQ, final fantasy, etc etc)

>>6439294
HAHAHAHA

No

>>6439294
fuck yeah!

>>6448308
>jrpgs tend to be character-focused to the detriment of a fully fleshed out world;
not sure why this matters, because xenogears has legit some of the bet worldbuilding and lore in a jrpg.

>>6439298
>>6443085
fuck yeah niggys

>>6439294
The sheer amount of religious content was too heavy handed and off putting.

>big ugly desert
vomit

>>6448469
Wow! Tits with heads, just as empty though.

Shit game is shit.

>>6448475
No

>>6439294
loved the combat system. loved it.

esmerelda is best girl.

remake is in order.. just update the textures and models, etc

>>6439546
Absolute cringe

Weebs prefer any game as long as it has waifus in it.

>>6449396
can you show us where the game filtered you?

>>6439546
Amen. I played FF7 and FF9 on my phone and now replaying Baldur's Gate 2 and BG is so much better

Also played BG Seige of Dragonspear and its pretty good too

All on my android phone

>>6451179
I really hate JRPGs and think Squaresoft is extremely over rated bullshit

>>6451169
Fei and game a shit

Finally figured out why the English Xenogears does all that funny shit with brackets around esoteric concepts.

The translator got tripped up by the JP convention of captioning somewhat more pretentious/lesser-used kanji (or like, made-up kanji like Shin-Ra) with meanings or intended readings.

>not FF Tactics
>not Tactics Ogre
Opinion disregarded.
CRPGs can't touch either of my babies.

>>6451209
Can you explain? I'm legit interested.

>>6451209
>>6451412
Same happened with Wild Arms

>>6451432
I never played wild arms but I played Xenogears (8 years ago) are you saying the english translation make the game MORE pretentious than it seemingly is?

>>6451412
So like, in the beginning of this conversation, Citan says "Could it be that we are
approaching.. the -Time- of the -Gospel-...?"

and in the Japanese the line reads, "やはり迫っているのか?……福音の劫<とき>…が……"

The emphasis here being on "福音の劫," where that first word means "Gospel" (as in, like, THE Gospel) and the second word is this jarringly out-of-place Buddhist term that means — and I will just copy-paste here — "Generally speaking, a kalpa is the period of time between the creation and recreation of a world or universe." So the writer was saying "I wanted them to be speaking in highfalutin terms, but I also realize not everyone knows what this is, so I'll put this clarification here." <とき> just means "time." The English text probably should have said something like the Age of the Gospel.

>>6451553
Oh ok I get it. Thanks for the explanation.

>>6451553
>>6451569
Yes, thank you, that was interesting Anon.

>>6451169

>>6451569
>>6451579
my pleasure

>>6451458
Oh no anon, that could not be avoided regardless

If you're one of those people who's eternally hung up on Disc 2, you have a serious deficiency in terms of being able to change your perspective and think critically. And I'm not saying the game doesn't have problems, it's that people can't properly perceive the magnitude of these problems because they're only seeing the forest for the trees.

First and foremost, ambition used to be something that was cherished in games. People back then knew Xenogears shipped with a few screws missing, but they appreciated the effort and the vision. And Xenogears was far from the only game that had this problem. Take a look at FF7, which narratively becomes far less focused and dense content-wise after the first visit to the crater, and which also had plenty of content dummied out, some of which was restored for the international releases. Or Baldur's Gate II, which shipped with so many horrendous mechanical glitches, exploits, and oversights that when you apply a fixpack it plays like an entirely different game.

Xenogears' crime was simply that its deficits are more visible thanks to its overall scope. It promised future installments/OVAs/whatever that would fill in the gaps in its timeline, so when we didn't get that expansion, people started to go back and nitpick these story points that didn't get resolved in the game itself.

>>6451637
Nope. That wasn't it.

>>6451637
(cont.) What they don't realize is that the content they think they're missing is actually in the game.

Mass Driver facility -- Would have been a rehash of the Goliath Factory/Zeboim.
Ft. Hurricane's attack on Kislev -- this would have just been a retread of earlier Bart episodes and another run through Nortune's central area.
Wels Meat Packing Plants -- these were covered in Solaris during the meat episode.

If anything, the problem is that Disc 1 isn't enough like Disc 2, and contains several segments that are either redundant or just useless, like the Kislev sewers or the endless face-offs against Gebler. If they had simply focused their energy from these into some more fleshed-out Elly segments in Disc 2, the balance would have been fine. And if you'd simply gotten to use the World Map to go from cutscene to cutscene in Disc 2, you probably wouldn't have noticed anything was amiss at all.

>>6451672
Uhm...No. I don't ever read a post(s) more impassioned that I agreed less with.

>>6451681
*don't think I've ever

>>6451641
>>6451681
you raise some interesting points

>>6451637
>>6451672
Based post.
I don't know if Perfect works makes XG better or worse in that regards.

>>6448495
What kind of weird fuck buys a ticket for their dog?

>>6451637
Forest for the trees indeed...then Takahashi et al got burned down and have been trying to redo it ever since. Disk 2 is not a hang up, it’s a testament to bad design and corporate failings. And some executive meddling on behalf of translators

>>6451672
Sorry wrong

>>6451692
Better, had it been realized. For one, Zeboim was more advanced than Solaris to a degree

>>6452768
That's what I'm saying. Since it hasn't been made, does it make XG worse since we know it's gutted, or better since we can read all the lore about it?

I wonder how discussion about XG would be if the version we have was the definition one. Nothing else was planned, they just ran out of time and sped up things.

Also, if anyone has other questions about Japanese Xenogears, I'll be drinking and playing all weekend, after I get home from work tonight. I'm about here in the game, so I can investigate something along the way if anyone has a particular question.

The official game is actually not badly translated at all, aside from a lot of the names. Like, compared to FF7 especially, it's spot-on. But there are still some funny differences here and there.

>>6454435
As a hater, even I would admit that it could have been one of the greatest series had T and S held true to the Project Noah story arch. Honestly, had they, it would have as a narrative just have finished itself about 2 or so years ago.

>>6451209
Xenogears philology.

do any of you think square would be interested in selling xenogears back to monolith? and if that happened do you think they(monolith) would do anything with it?

>>6456145
That's like getting kojima to fix mgs5. It's a pipe dream, but do go on. I wanna hear you're headcannon.

>>6456147
i don't even have any crazy ideas like fix cd2 or shit like that. i just think this game could use a remaster for modern systems, with simple qol additions like a fast forward option for battles or maybe "a repeat what you did before" - auto battle option, an option to increase text speed, an option to choose between jp and us control schemes and change between jp and us dub, fixing minor translations errors, increase menu speed, upscale the 3d models and internal res without graphical bugs and make so that you can change party members in any memory cube.

>>6456147
>>6456202
Xenogears (and Chrono cross) is the only RPG that legit needs a remake.
I don't think however it'd do well as a modern one. Reading is much better than watching badly choregraphied anime like xenosaga/xenoblade. They just need to remake it as a pseudo 2D/3D portable game with better graphics, added sidequest and a better gameplay... like avoidable enemies

>>6455220
shut the FUCK UP, you FUCKING idiot

>>6456202
>with simple qol additions like a fast forward option for battles or maybe "a repeat what you did before"
No. most games have options to increase text speed though, so I agree with that. Xenogears could use some bug fixing too
>>6456206
No on the portable. no games are better on phones these days, but an update with a bug fix an better models would be great.

>>6456227
By "portable" I meant something like the 3DS or the PS Vita.
And I realize both of these consoles are 8 years old or more now. Are we even gonna have portable consoles in the future?

>>6456230
Kek, I gotcha. Hey, maybe a nice romhack will come out, or you could make one yourself. Though, squaresoft ps1 games are janky as hell. I'm working on an abridged/overhaul version of ff7 and boy, let me tell you how fucked up these games are on ps1. Check out qhimm dot net. You'll get all you need to know from there, but lurk more than anything, some of those guys are just as hostile/gatekeepers as 4chan fags.

>>6451641
>>6451681
>>6451837
>>6456210

Will That One Guy on 4chan Who Gets Really Fucking Triggered by Xenogears ever recover?

>>6456243
Thanks for the info anon. I'll check that out

>>6456260
Sorry it's dot com. My mistake.

>>6456260
>>6456275
There's not a lot of xenogears stuff, but it's more than helpful. Most squaresoft games on ps1 were very similar.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=3837.0

>>6456251
Chronologically.

>>6456145
It would give full for Takahashi and his wife Sora to get back to finishing it. They would undoubtedly return to finishing PN to its original intent, but may not get far as it was to be a decade or more spanning project. Save that Xenosaga more or less gave us what would have been Chapter 1. XCX was a reboot of the story, but when a directions that was not the full intent, hinted at no doubt. They could start with Ch. 2, which iirc was set 15-20 years after the Eldridge slammed into the Planet and look into the nascent of Cain and the Council.
>>6456202
>>6456206
Disk 2 was to be a staging for future chapters. Most likely 3 or 4 next with 1 (what we more or less got in Xenosaga) being after it. Haters can bitch, but this was going to be the Japanese Dune.

>>6439294
You could have at least picked an actually good JRPG and not an overrated meme game that represents everything wrong with the genre.

>>6439294
Xenogears' world has always fascinated me. I must say, it's one of the rare JRPG world that is carefully constructed and make sense, like... you feel like it's actually a real world with solid background behind, and not just a collection of towns/dungeons for the plot (some other example include Chrono series and Earthbound). I wanted to explore Elru, Aquvy and even that deserted continent in the north-east.

>>6451685
>you raise some interesting points
You're way overthinking it- Disc 2 is bad. Full stop. A text dump is not a game. You are playing a game, not an interactive philosophical discourse.

>>6456451
>an interactive medium isn't allowed to explore its limits.
Disc 2 was a symptom not the cause. XG - the game- was already poorly managed to begin with, instead of focusing on more exploration to learn about the lore of the game (like Solaris) it was about stupid sewers and awkward plateforming. The CD2 was interesting because they had to focus on what was their intent from the very beginning : making a visual novel/JRPG hybrid (let's be honest, 70% of xenogears is reading cutscenes, even in CD1)

You're allowed to not like it though, especially if you wanted a game. XG is a poor game

>>6456484
Poor game, from a game perspective, but not an uninteresting one. Its story is also better than most anime of the genre it rips-off. I think it should be made into a proper one. A good 26 episode adaption by cutting the fat (like nocturne)

>>6456441
Your could have...if it was finished.

>>6456489
>Its story is also better than most anime of the genre it rips-off
Yes, it is better than Macross and Gundam
>like Nortune
One of the better parts.

>>6456484
>>an interactive medium isn't allowed to explore its limits.
Anon, would you say an interactive medium has definitely hit its limits when it ceases to be interactive? Can we at least agree on where the edge of the map is?

>>6439294
>bledavik

>>6439294
What game is this? Serious replies only please.

>>6457437
Xenogears

>>6456738
Xenogears few off of it.
>>6457282
Land of the pseudoackbars.

>>6457437
Boku no piko no natsuyasumi

>the sewer level in Kislev Block D
what a fucking slog that was, jesus

>>6458442
Funny how >>6439716 is tied to this.

>>6459147
Speaks volumes.

>>6460204
hehe le gay

>>6462212
Yes Xeno very much is.

>>6454538
tell me about the technobabble and religious references.

Is it true these are only present in the english version? I was told these are only in the english translation, and are there just to spice the text up, and don't have any real meaning beyond that.

>>6463005
Not him, but in the original script, Deus was called YHWH and it's the translator who told Takahashi he couldn't do that because people were going to be offended.
I suppose he wasn't aware of SMT.

>your pic
>Heavans

>>6463005
Pretentiousness.

>>6463005
Not at all. If anything they cut a lot of this for the English. For example, you know that opening crawl after the Eldridge cutscene? In the English they tell you about humanity excavating Gears, but in the Japanese it distinctly refers to them as “Asah” Gears, which is a Hebrew word. They’re differentiating early on between the Gears that people made and Omnigears (“Bara” Gears). That one guy who was trying to retranslate Xenogears did a nice write-up on it before he disappeared.

Any time a character uses a sort of technical term like “actuator,” it was generally that exact word in katakana in Japanese. But like, that exchange between Tolone and Seraphita where they discuss her “Gin ‘n Tonic Futon Brain/Positronic Photon Brain” is pretty faithfully realized from the Japanese, where Tolone unironically calls it her “ ポジトロン光子脳” and Seraphita calls it “ポリクロロトルエン子牛脳” (same reading, but 子牛 means “calf” instead of “photon”). So the original game has this tongue-in-cheek effect too. Also a good example of what I mean that the big points in the translation were handled well; that is skillful localization there.

Other instances seem more like honest goofs or just like, the translator came up with a dud, like Stone’s gear “Alkanshel,” which is actually “Archangel” or maybe “Arc-en-Ciel” was part of the pun, but it seems like a weird place for a nonsense pun.

>>6463746
So all the worlds tech comes from that ship?

>>6463808
I assume they made some iterations on it, but yes. Especially anything “big” that you see in the game, like the Yggdrasil or Babel Tower.

>>6463857
Babel tower is the remains of the ships forward gunwale. 40Km of the residential district. Originally in a early draft, if was the remains of a crashed colony.

>>6463808
my understanding is that slave generators and the like come from that time. there is no way to reproduce the technology that Zohar and Kadomony have. Slave generators are a finite resource that must be scavenged.
and the big stuff like Ft Jasper is also from the Eldridge. The game shows that throughout the 10K years prior, all cultures valued and prized precious items like Anima Relics.

but other things like gate generators and gears themselves could be from the Zeboim era, or from 500 year previous in the heyday of Shevat and Solaris. The 3 wise men and Krelian clearly have the capability and know-how to create such technology on their own.

and certain tech, like the man-machine fusion, is being developed in the current timeline.

>>6465532
Relative to anon. They are learning backwards, so to speak. PW mentions how the Zeboim Era was using that tech to remodernize after years of trying to put civilization back from little to no progress. Cain, the overbitch and the council were making the greatest attempt at the revival during that era. Zeboim was on par with what would could say was 20 min in the future mixed with some real tech shit. Solaris is the crown of this 4000 years later as their tech is equivalent to the tech from Eldridge, BUT with some things missing. The original draft for what was going to be Takahashi, et al's VII originally had these assets to have a storyline nearer to premise of Man vs. Nature. Weltall ID was going to be Omega Weapon and the remains of the Eldridge was the remains of a crashed colony.

>>6465992
What was the background for CT2?

>>6439546
Brought to you by zoomers and the zoom at heart

>>6465992
Zeboim is just a ripoff/homage to Tokyo 3.

>>6439294
>phoneposter
>dogshit opinion
Checks out

>>6468820
>faggot
>molests rabbits
Typical Xenofag.

>>6466979
I love how people believe Evangelion invented everything and wasn't simply a product of its time.
Live-A-Live displays a lot of ideas you will find in End of Evangelion and it came out before the show aired in Japan. The 90s were simply the time for these kind of stories

>>6468820
>>6469985
I love how Xenohaters (all two of them) are so dumb they even hurl insults at each other.

>>6469996
Love how Xenofags will defend a game that's creator can't make up his mind after 22 years of constant rehashing.

How are the Xenosaga games? How long are they compared to Xenogears? I really like the visual style.

>>6470164
'Saga is/was basically the spiritual attempt of Takahashi to reboot the whole thing starting with Ep. I of VI by giving a background the the ultra advanced civ that built the Eldridge. Good chuck of the whole series is cutscenes, avoid II like Covid.

>>6457904
ugh...

>>6470743
"Words and phrases that express how you feel after seeing this game for $200 please?"

>>6470164
Just finished whole trilogy and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It just a slog and very long shitty anime.
>visual
It has great visual, still hold up today, and generally its a very good looking series.

1 was just shitty. Very amateur cutscenes, very long for no reason, it feels like they run too long because they left time for system to load next segment. Extremely shitty combat, you better off to put every point in stats and not bother with Techs.
But it has one good feature - great space-opera atmosphere.

2 gets a lot more shit than it deserves, but its a huge improvement after 1. At least it feels like a game and not tech-demo.
And it the most buffed game for content of the three, too. Post-game content with robots is great.
It has great combat with combos, it has a lot of great fighting in cutscenes (you'll even remember Matrix), but its story is a mess - game just present you with a lot of drama without context.

3 is a game that feels like it was stranded with a lack of budget (and it was), its a shame because it has potential to be a great game. You play it and feel it had a lot of potential, but higher-ups said "end it". You'll get a little entertaining ending but that's it.

Just settle for Xenoblades and not waste your time.

>>6471749
Is Takahashi a hack that was just lucky with Xenogears thanks to his wife and Squaresoft?

>>6471759
Can't say, will be trying Xenogears some time soon.

>>6471759
More or less. Sorta is a decent writer, but just recently revealed she was very limited by both her husband and Square on projects and ideas she had come up with on her own with many of those ideas taken by the former two. The arch concept of "solider with a lose of memory" which was a concept found in FF VII, Xenogears, and even to an extent, Parasite Eve was supposedly her idea. She was the one who originally had 'Gears called Project Noah and wanted it to be this huge space opera. The mechs were Takahashi's idea after being a fan of G Gundam and Wing. Square wanted a science fiction epic to put on par with the fading Phantasy Star, the original ideas were shot down because the execs thought it was "too dark".

>>6439294
That's not FF9

>>6471925
Thank goodness.

>>6439891
This but 100% unironically

>>6471921
>tfw Takahashi only added the weebshit

>>6471934
No. Curse badness.

>>6471973
Yes! Curse Xenogears! Oh...wait, never mind.

>>6439294
Great game, terrible bait.

>>6473720
Shit game, shit anon.

>>6474565
serious question for you and the other hater guy guy: why does Xenogears trigger you so much? did it murder your family or something?

I get that you don't like the game. That's cool and all. But what makes you so compelled to go into every thread and spam how much you hate it? like, don't you have anything better to do?

>>6474620
Not him or the other, but there are many of us. For myself, failed potential. That and its pretention is off the scale.

>>6475174
That's the answer to "Why don't you like it?" not "Why do you jump on every individual post like it's your reason for existence?"

>>6475341
For you :). Shit game a shit.

>>6475357
Thanks for the bump.

>>6475369
No problem, this game is a dump.

bump

>>6477227
No, dump.

>>6443306
>Not calling the genre Mechanime (some 90s kids may remember that term)

Well, this surprises no one.

https://www.siliconera.com/monolith-soft-was-founded-to-try-and-make-xenogears-2-happen/