/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6456342
Chrono cross

Neon Genesis Evangelion

Wipeout 3

Vagrant Story

Conker

Radiant Silvergun

>>6456412
RIP Conker. We hardly knew you.

>>6456342
2D ones

>>6456345
Agreed. Recently played this for the first time, the 480i character models on the menus are fucking excellent. And of course, the pre-rendered backgrounds are impressive, but I'm not sure if they count or not.

>>6456342
not a fan of the art style but definitely pushes them polys

>>6456347
I tried to play this game on my wii through using not64 but I can't seem to get it to work right. Is there a better emulator to use?

Soul Calibur

>>6456981
>but I'm not sure if they count or not.
They're what makes it the most beautiful game on the PS1. 3D age like milk while good art direction does not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GVE4a8ULww

>>6457580
>3D age like milk
a lot of it, but not all of it
https://femto.pw/3t7t.gif

>>6457550
Not a 5th gen game (except maybe the arcade version)

>>6457819
Yeah stylized 3D in a cartoonish style fare better. I'm thinking of Rayman 3 as well, even if it's not "retro"

>>6457526
a real n64

That must be the ugliest texture pack I've ever seen.

>>6457894
That's the joke

>>6456342
Those textures might look nice if everything wasn’t so dirty looking.

>>6457001
If the resolution wasn't so low I would think that was a PS2 game. What game is it?

>>6456342
Vagrant Story

>>6456342
Scud Race on Model3

perfect dark is up there if you ignore the character models.

>>6458591
World Driver Championship

>>6456412
This. It pushed that gen way past its limits.

>>6458735
>woah this looks almost like a dreamcast gam...
>framerate
>oooooh

>>6458735
>crazy model detail
>crazy lighting
>reflective floors and water
>AND fully voice acted
>no expansion pak required
mental

>>6458753
and more impressive texturing than any other 5th gen game

>>6458753
Rare was really something back in the day.

>>6457819
they could have done a current gen port with nothing more than texture filtering and removing the wobble and it still would have sold well

>>6456342
memefrogvomittinggreenwithhatredanddisgust.jpg

>>6456342
If it's on the n64 it didn't have good graphics.

Fucking garbage system.

>>6460717
you can't stop us sweaty

>>6460729
>people paid money for this

>>6456342
1. Anything that can take obvious polys and use them to an advantage.
2. JRPGs
3. 2D games where pixelated sprites could finally reach their peak.

>>6460729
yeah garbage graphics

>>6460732
People spend $1000+ for a GPU for MUH RAY TRACING and buy up $2K+ for game DLC to tickly their gambling and hoarding itch.
MM is a bargain compared to that even now.

>>6457829
>came out in 1999
>was released on the Dreamcast
um yeah it is

>>6460790
Dreamcast wasn't 5th gen. Sega already had a 5th gen console, it was called the Saturn.

>>6460790
dreamcast is a 6th gen console

>>6460796
>>6461076
um no sweeties

>>6460732
>>people paid good money for pure gold

>>6461203
where does it says it is 5th gen you absolute waste of genes?

>>6461203
try reading the whole sentence you highlighted

god that looks disgusting

>>6460717
>Zoomer
Opinion discarded

>>6461212
it actually specifically calls it 6th gen
>the sega dreamcast ..... though the REMAINDER of the sixth generation ...

>>6460732
Yes, that's generally how games were sold.
Go back to downloading your DLC, zoomer

>>6461214
I said the same when I met your mother but hey, here you are now.

>>6461227
>your mom lol
Can you be any more generic and boring?

>>6461240
Yes, see >>6461214

>>6461212
>>6461213
>>6461216
Than why is it allowed It is le nut retro?

>>6456342
Quake still looks beautiful with it's surreal and moody art direction. Especially with texture filtering off making all the subtle details more defined.

>>6461330
>Especially with texture filtering off making all the subtle details more defined.
You mean specks of noise from the aliasing?

>>6461281
Because it is a pre-2000 platform, you tiny brain. Retro means pre-2000 platforms (and ports and remakes), as the sticky says.

>>6461338
I didn't say mipmap had to be turned off, I suppose that counts as texture filtering tho, my bad.

GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR looks best in my experience

>>6460757
Man, I wish this game could get a remaster like Turok got. Tried playing it again recently and it's soooo sloooow

>>6456342
World Driver Championship.

https://youtu.be/nJMDPJiFxQk

>>6457526
wii's n64 emulators are so shit they might as well not exist. even if your pc isn't that great you'll get better results emulating n64 on that

>>6461860
Not64 has received two updates since the Nintendo leak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnmEqfgNjkE

>>6460717
It does have the best 3D of the 5th gen though (and understandably so, it came out like 2 years later than ps1 and saturn, of course it has more raw power) but even in 2D games N64 has one of the best looking ones, Project Wonder J2.
It's ok to have a hateboner for the system, but ultimately you just come off as a silly console warrior, or a zoomer larping as one. Better enjoy that rage boner in silence.

>>6464478
the music sounds like someone's midi rendition of the real music

>>6464486
>It does have the best 3D of the 5th gen though
highly questionable
it was more powerful in many ways, but was held back a lot with some major flaws, such as the 4k texture cache, lots of power being spent on extras like texture filtering, z-buffering, aa, when they really needed the power to keep the framerate and draw distance up (poor priorities)
also while the carts were very fast, they were also very small, so you get lots of small/cut down games with missing features (again, poor priorities)
at the end of the day, despite it's extra power, it can't really push any more polygons than the weaker playstation, and has blurry low res textures, low frame rates due to bandwidth starvation, and lack of content (both in game size and game count)

the playstation definately has it's fair share of issues, most obviously no perspective correction and fixed-point vertex math ("wobbly polygons"), but at least the gameplay didn't suffer from them

All of them are fucking ugly. Early 3D is cancer to my eyes.

>>6464525
There were still 2D games back then, you know.

>>6464525
each 5th gen console had 2D games
https://femto.pw/fpff.jpg

>>6464528
>>6464539
Later Neo Geo games such as Last Blade and Metal Slug have the prettiest 2D graphics. They came out during 5th gen but Neo Geo itself is 4th gen.

>>6464513
>such as the 4k texture cache
Not a flaw, it was the largest texture cache possible at the time. Memory bandwidth was the flaw.

>lots of power being spent on extras like texture filtering
Bilinear texturing is free on the N64 due to the texture cache. Because the GPU has to be forced into two cycle mode when z-buffer is enabled (memory bandwidth can't keep up otherwise), trilinear filtering is effectively free too except for having to load in mipmaps.

>draw distance up
N64 games have better draw distances than PS1 games because the latter console cannot draw textured landscapes without tessellation. This is for two reasons. Firstly, the PS1's triangle setup isn't optimized for large triangles. Secondly, the quality of texture mapping with affine mapped textures goes haywire on large triangles.

The effect is that a textured landscape on PS1 might require 5x the polygons of one on N64 to achieve the same result.

Of course, you can cherry pick some N64 games with bad draw distances, but those were either due to poor programming (Superman 64) or concentrating too many polygons right up front in the player's face (Turok 2).

> it can't really push any more polygons than the weaker playstation
It doesn't need to push as many, see above.

>blurry low res textures
With proper memory bandwidth optimization, the console has better texturing than the PS1 see >>6458762

A larger texture cache than the PS1 can be quite advantageous, because when you are dealing with textures larger than 2 KB and equal to or smaller than 4 KB, the PS1 needs to hit VRAM for a texture access while the N64 doesn't. Your "typical" PS1 texture is 64x64 (4 KB at 8 bit color) by the way. Most N64 games use smaller textures than that so many can be crammed into the texture cache at once as a lazy way to reduce memory access.

>low frame rates due to bandwidth starvation
PS1 games have low frame rates too in 3D games due to the relatively weak CPU and excessive use of tessellation

What gen are Daytona USA and Sega Rally Championship from arcades? They came out in 1993-1994 and certainly look better than all 3D games on 5th gen consoles.

>>6464552
neo geo aes is such an expensive oddball that i'd hesitate to even put it next to other home consoles at all
it's literally an arcade board in a box sold to consumers, they originally didn't even intend to actually sell the unit outright (just renting)

>>6464570
op isn't talking about arcade units, they don't really have generations in the same way home consoles do, there's a lot more kinds of boards, and their lifespans overlap a lot

>>6464562
Lot of misinfo in this post, n64 texture cache was 4kb, ps1's was 2kb. mipmaps had to be stored in the cache and trilinear data did too, essentially halving it. PS1 games could do large draw distances, even textured ones with minimal warping no problem. gamera2000 comes to mind as a 480i60 game with detailed distant polygon rendering. Trilinear filtering isn't free (who gave you this bullshit?) Texture cache isn't a "lazy" way to reduce memory access ffs, UMA ensures it's a required pipeline to hit with any asset being spit to be rasterized. It's also fucking slow moving from cartridge
>With proper memory bandwidth optimization
conker is a one off, unless you're saying every other game on the system is doing it wrong, you need to phrase this better. Conker also runs like shit and no, that's not better quality textures than PS1 games. In terms of hardware capability, it's not possible for the N64 to do better.
>PS1 games have low frame rates too in 3D
A lot less issues than the N64 did.

>>6464640
>n64 texture cache was 4kb, ps1's was 2kb
My post says this

>mipmaps had to be stored in the cache and trilinear data did too
My post says this too. But what’s the point of bringing it up? PS1 can’t do mipmapping. By the way, there is no such thing as ‘trilinear data’ other than mipmaps.

>PS1 games could do large draw distances, even textured ones with minimal warping no problem. gamera2000 comes to mind as a 480i60 game with detailed distant polygon rendering.
I’ve given you a technical explaination for why PS1 struggles to do textured landscapes efficiently. You’re gonna have to do better than “dude just trust me”. By the way, gamera2000 has blatant pop-in, and doesn’t draw polygonal “landscapes” of any significant complexity. It’s also on rails.

>Trilinear filtering isn't free (who gave you this bullshit?)
Trilinear filtering is a two cycle operation on RCP. So in two cycle mode (which was the normal mode with z-buffer enabled) it is “free” other than needing mipmaps loaded into the texture cache.

In two cycle mode, the N64 can bilinear filter two pixels (from 6 texels, 3 from the original texture, 3 from the mipmap) and do a linear interpolation between those two textured pixels on the color combiner (and an additional color combiner operation for something else) Hence, trilinear filtering.

>Texture cache isn't a "lazy" way to reduce memory access
Yes it is. It allows for “easy” sequential texture reads from RAM rather than risking random access latency.

>It's also fucking slow moving from cartridge
Much faster than from CD though.

>Conker also runs like shit
So do games like Terracon, but they still did cool things.

>that's not better quality textures than PS1 games
Yes it is. Find for me a PS1 game that displays more unique higher resolution texels at the same time, in one frame.

>>6464801
>My post says this
with mipmapping and trilinear filtering, it's basically the same amount of texture cache.
>My post says this too
and ignores the cost of it.
>I’ve given you a technical explaination for why PS1 struggles to do textured landscapes efficiently
you only said big polygons = warping. That's not technical.
>gamera2000 has blatant pop-in, and doesn’t draw polygonal “landscapes” of any significant complexity. It’s also on rails.
none of this is relevant, still achieves distant, detailed polygons. Look up the game on youtube again.
>Trilinear filtering
not free.
>it is “free” other than it's not
it's free, other than halving texture cache. What the fuck?
>Yes it is. It allows for “easy” sequential texture reads from RAM rather than risking random access latency.
yeah read instead from the slow as fuck, highly latent memory. Unfortunately Rare were so lazy with all their other games and everyone else, including Nintendo, they couldn't meet the ground level standards conker set at the end of the consoles life. For shame everyone but Conker's team who produced one of the slowest games on the console.
>Much faster than from CD though.
irrelevant.
>So do games like Terracon,
not particularly.
>Find for me a PS1 game
any crash

It's amazing how all the misinformation in your post doesn't change the facts about every n64 game in existence.

>>6464818
>with mipmapping and trilinear filtering, it's basically the same amount of texture cache.
Trilinear filtering is a type of multitexturing (combining the base texture with a mipmap texture) so your assertion that it “halves” texture cache is quite nonsensical. A trilinearly filtered base texture which is 2 KB is being interpolated with a second 2 KB block of information. So what is actually being drawn is reflective of 4 KB of information.

>and ignores the cost of it.
But I said the only cost, which is the requirement of mipmaps.

>you only said big polygons = warping. That's not technical.
The PS1’s rendering pipeline, as mentioned, is not optimised for texture coordinate generation on large polygons. The problem lies both at GTE triangle setup and the fact it uses affine texture mapping. It’s quite plainly technical. Large textured polygons drawn at angles would produce such unholy texture warping that it would be unusable.

>yeah read instead from the slow as fuck, highly latent memory. Unfortunately Rare were so lazy with all their other gam[clipped because of mindless ranting]
I wish I knew what you were on about. Well actually, not really.

The rest of your post is just baseless axe grinding about the N64, so what’s the point.

>>6462778
link?

>>6464847
>so your assertion that it “halves” texture cache is quite nonsensical
Which is why I said it and mipmapping you illiterate fuck

>>6464861
What is even the point? It’s not like mipmapping is mandatory on N64. Conker only uses it sparingly.

Even taking your argument at its best, it would be comparing 2 KB of nearest neighbour textures on PS1 against 2 KB of trilinearly filtered base textures on N64. The speed of executing these textures is roughly the same on both machines (around 32 MPixel/s peak, and textured from cache not RAM). In a technical contest, that’s nothing for the PS1 to be proud of.

>>6464876
>What is even the point?
>Not a flaw, it was the largest texture cache possible at the time. Memory bandwidth was the flaw.

>>6464854
Google it, it's literally the first search entry.

>>6464880
>I’m going to compare the N64’s most advanced texturing feature against the PS1 using the most basic texturing feature
Keep grinding that axe

>>6464893
And just like that, you've lost the plot. Fanboys are too obvious.

>>6462778
none of those recent commits look leak-related tbqh.