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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 3 KB, 248x192, S2_sms_title.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6452812 No.6452812 [Reply] [Original]

Are the 8-bit sonic games anything other than mediocre?

>> No.6452815

>>6452812
Sonic 1 and 2 on the Sega System are better than their 16-bit cousins.

>> No.6452819

>>6452812
Far, far less than your (constant) shitposts, homo.

>> No.6452834
File: 405 KB, 360x450, Sonic-Triple-Trouble-US-Boxart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6452834

>>6452812
Anything with fang is good

>> No.6452936

>>6452812
Why, yes. The Master System Sonic 1 and 2 are among the best Sonic games there are, better than the Mega Drive games, if you ask me.

>> No.6453085

>>6452812
The sega master games, the first two at least, are actually quite good. The game gear ports kinda falter due to the smaller screen size.
>>6452815
>>6452936
I think they are good but this is probably just contrarianism. It's arguable that Sonic 1 on the SMS is better than on the Genesis, but Sonic 2 Genesis blows Sonic 2 SMS out of the water.

>> No.6453094
File: 152 KB, 661x1024, RCO006.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6453094

>>6452834
Anything with Fang getting kneed in the testicles is better

>> No.6453098

>>6452812
Yes. they're fun.

>> No.6453109
File: 1.13 MB, 1061x680, Sonic Blast (Brazil).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6453109

ITT we thank Brazil

Thanks Brazil!

>> No.6453165

>>6453085
If I had to rank them it'd go 8-bit Sonic 1 > 16-bit Sonic 1 > 8-bit Sonic 2 > 16-bit Sonic 2. Sonic 2 on the Megadrive is so boring and easy up until Metropolis and the final boss that it just isn't any fun to replay, similar to Super Castlevania Bros. where most, if not all of the game is a cakewalk that puts you to sleep.

>> No.6453172

>>6452815
Fuck off australia, they're good but not better than the 16 bit ones.
Also Game Gear > Meme System

>> No.6453184

>>6453165
>Super Castlevania Bros.
If anyone needed any proof that "sega system" guy was australia-kun.
Also kind of funny to see him actually being a fan of sonic.
Also, Sonic 1 8bit was developed for Game Gear first, the SMS port was an afterthought. There is no issue with the screen. Sonic 2 does have issues with the screen resolution, but it's not a good game overall, imo. Sonic 1 is the real deal. Play on Game Gear as Yuzo intended. Better colors and sound, too!

>> No.6453186

>>6453109
They made some good ports. That is not one of them.

>> No.6453192

>>6453184
The first game of the 8-bit series was designed for Master System. The secone might have been, considering the GG version's apparent design flaws. I'm not sure about Chaos but it I think it was made for GG and then ported to MS.

>> No.6453205

>>6453192
All the sources I could find point out to it being made for GG first, not SMS. Do you have any source that says otherwise?

>> No.6453215

>>6453172
>Game Gear > Meme System
>worse resolution
>worse sound capability
>worse games library
>no cool accessories like 3D glasses, lightgun, etc.

How can one be so wrong?
You must be a yank who never even touched the console or something.

>> No.6453218

1 is really the only one worth playing.

>> No.6453221

>>6453215
Cope, auster.
GG has better colors and Sonic 1 was developed for the GG. Ask Yuzo.

>> No.6453226

>>6453205
It came out for MS, first. I guess I don't have a source except release dates. It came out in October for MS and December for GG.

>> No.6453229

>>6453215
Yank here hyping up the MS versions. GG had overall a better library, but MS had some better versions like Son1 and 2, despite having less colors and sometimes an inferior soundtrack (2 and Chaos).

>> No.6453232

>>6453218
Why not Chaos and Triple Trouble?

>> No.6453235

>>6453226
Yeah, development notes I found say it started as a GG game. Sega then told Yuzo to make a port for SMS too. I guess the extra time they spent on GG was to polish it a bit. For example, GG has the voice clip of Sega at the intro, not on SMS

>> No.6453253
File: 2 KB, 248x192, Stt-sms.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6453253

Sonic 1, 2, Chaos, Triple Trouble and Tails Adventure are all pretty good and worth a look at if you enjoy the mainline stuff. I recommend playing the Master System versions though, Game Gear suffers from screen crunch. The ones that don't have official SMS ports have fan converted ones made, they're pretty easy to find

>> No.6453491

>>6452936
>better than the Mega Drive games
I see that opinion often, but how high do you have to be to prefer the technically inferior port, with linear, smaller stages and less enemies ?

I played the two 8-bit Sonic as a kid and they have a lot of sentimental value for me. But their Mega Drive counterparts are without a doubt superior, I'm not that far up my ass to deny that.

>> No.6453760

>>6453491
Technically they are ofx course but personally, my favorite Sonic game is still the Master System version of Sonic 1. It has an unique charm and I love the music tracks (Bridge Zone and Jungle Zone especially). It's a short game but it has something that always makes me launching it and replaying it regularely.

>> No.6453778

>>6453253
Don't most of those fan conversions have forced borders, negating the entire purpose?

>> No.6453839

>>6452812
honestly if you play these on master system and remove the slowdown, they end up playing better than the post-genesis 2d sonic games.

>> No.6453916

>>6453235
That's interesting, thanks anon. Do you happen to have a link or something to those notes for future reference?

>> No.6453987

>>6453491
This is today's version of 'Sonic was never good'. These people never really cared about master system games

>> No.6454015

Why would the Game Gear version of Sonic 1 come first when the stage design was more visibly balanced for the Master System?
>Pits in Green Hill are not telegraphed with warning signs on MS as there's no GG screen-crunch to make them needed
>First Eggman boss is actually a light challenge on MS because he hangs out of jumping range when not attacking, as opposed to the cramped GG screen letting you blow him up in five seconds
>Second Eggman boss is set on a curved bridge to make dodging his shots harder
>The waterfall climb of Jungle Act 2 does not scroll downward in MS, making it more challenging as you can't miss any jumps
>Labyrinth's Chaos Emerald is a race to grab it from a spike pit while invincible in MS, while it just sits there unguarded in GG
>Final boss uses a sweeping electric wall and not easy-to-avoid flamethrowers, plus the seeking shots home in on you better

>> No.6454037

>>6452812
8 bit Sonic 1 > 16 bit Sonic 1
16 bit Sonic 2 >> 8bit Sonic 2

>> No.6454071

>>6454037
Reasonable.

>> No.6454289

>>6454015
First of all, the game coming out for SMS first doesn't mean it started development on it first. All sources indicate it started development for the Game Gear.
Secondly, there's also many unbalanced stuff on the SMS version, for example, being able to clip through platforms when Sonic jump, or (the most funny of all imo), you can't see certain spikes on the floor on SMS, but you can see them on GG. On SMS you have to press down and wait for the screen to scroll down to see them, on GG you can readily seem them without extra input/waiting.
So, even though SMS offers more resolution, it seems they didn't tweak the game for it.
Also really, presentation is just much better on GG, with animated detailed backgrounds and just more assets in general, like the sunflowers on the first zone having animation on GG, but being static on SMS.
Here's a good video analysis, it goes a bit too autistic with ring placement comparison though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXg7Nsfhb6k

>> No.6454334

the master system got its best games after the launch of the megadrive, which is pretty damn weird
but yeah I was poor so I have a huge soft spot of SMS versions of sonic, batman returns, castle of illusion, streets of rage, bonanza bros, ecco, but NOT golden axe
that was pure ass

>> No.6454358

>>6454334
>golden axe
Should've got the great Golden Axe Warrior instead brop=.

>> No.6454363

>>6454358
if I survive to the terminal expansion of the universe and time begins to move backwards, I'll keep that in mind

>> No.6454519

>>6452812
On the Master System 1 and 2 are good.
Anything originally for the Game Gear sucks if you're playing a Eurojank or Brasil-only release.

>> No.6454673

They're not great, but still pretty good.
The only truly bad one is Sonic Blast.

>> No.6454681

>>6452815
Pfft.

>> No.6454747

>>6453085
>Sonic 2 Genesis blows
agreed

>> No.6454803
File: 67 KB, 1280x480, Tails Adventure.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6454803

>>6453778
There's a bit of a border, but the field of view is much larger

>> No.6454931

>>6454289
Huh, pretty interesting. I guess that makes the Game Gear version really the definitive, then.
Sonic 2, however, was clearly made with Master System in mind. That first boss can go fuck itself on Game Gear.

>> No.6454937

>>6454931
Yeah Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 8-bit were made by different developers. Sonic 1 was by Ancient (Yuzo Koshiro's company), while Sonic 2 was made by Aspect, who also did the other 8-bit Sonic games.

>> No.6454979 [DELETED] 

>>6454289
You keep referring to these sources, yet you still never posted any links to them.

>> No.6455102

>>6454979
Here's what I could find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(8-bit_video_game)#cite_note-untoldhistory-12
inb4 wikipedia, I know, but the source seems to be The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers: Volume 1, an interview with Yuzo Koshiro himself.
Here's another article with Yuzo Koshiro comments in Polygon:
https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/6/19/15819622/yuzo-koshiro-legendary-game-composer-family-business-owner
>"Sega as a company couldn't form contracts with individuals, so I had to set up my own company," he says. "That way we could take on this project — a company working with a company. I don't remember all the specific details, but in short, we established Ancient as a company so we could take on the Sonic the Hedgehog project for Game Gear."
Both versions were developed at the same time, but there are indicators that make it seem like the GG was the main focus, while the SMS is more of a budget version of it. The fact they didn't really capitalize on the SMS' bigger resolution for example.
It also makes sense that the main focus would be the GG because GG was new at the time, and unlike SMS, it was popular in USA (where Sonic's main target audience was)

>> No.6456419

>>6453491
>the technically inferior port,
How high do you have to be to think they are ports? Do you even know what a port is? Protip: it doesn't mean a 100% new game.
>>6453987
Get bent, Yank. Master System was king in my state.

>> No.6456428

>>6453094
Is this real

>> No.6456437

>>6456428
Yeah, not sure what comic it's from though.

>> No.6456479
File: 1.98 MB, 1171x825, 1580508597057.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6456479

>>6456419
I also agree that MS Sonic 1 was better, based Nige. The Chaos Emerald hunting was really fun., and the music is somehow more soulful. That said, my cousin's copy of Gen Sonic 1 blew me away after playing Gen Sonic 2 for a few years (and also owning and hating GG Sonic 2). The graphics and even special stages were uniquely surreal. Sonic 1 (MS) > Sonic 1 (Gen) > Sonic 3&K > Sonic Chaos > Triple Trouble > Sonic 2 (Gen) > Sonic (GG) (I need to play through MS Sonic 2 sometime to see if it's really a lot better than GGS2).

>> No.6456536

>Sonic 1 Gen and MS that high
>Sonic 2 Gen that low

>> No.6456550

>>6454803
I guess I'll try them out, then. Thanks for the good comparison image, dude.

>> No.6456560

>>6456536
Filet mignon does seem unbelievable after consuming ground chuck for so long, true.

>> No.6458404

I like Sonic 1 GG but let's not pretend that it's better than Sonic 1 MD, which is the best entry in the series.

>> No.6458415

>>6456437
That's gotta be the infamous Ken Penders Archie Sonic series. It's positively *littered* with edgy batshittery like that.

>> No.6459349
File: 83 KB, 975x622, MaSS1VE_d.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6459349

>>6454289
Having disassembled Sonic 1 for the SMS, I can tell you that you're wrong.

>> No.6459391

>>6459349
Oh it's you anon, first post here, sorry for not congratulating you on discovering the Marble Zone music leftover all those threads ago (I'm talking years). I just had a case of the spaghetti and didn't know what to say. Now I can finally lift a weight off my shoulders.

>> No.6459402

>>6459349
Not the anon you're replying to, but how does that pic proves him wrong?
Based on the actual differences between SMS and GG, it does seem like more work/polish was put on GG. Plus Yuzo himself said it started as a GG game, according to the interviews.

>> No.6459404

>>6459391
Glad. I'm in the SMS S1 > Gen S1 camp (though not the sequels); it's a more varied game and incredibly elegant for the system

>> No.6459464

>>6459402
>it does seem like more work/polish was put on GG.

Well yeah, there were a few more months of dev time between the SMS release and GG release after all.

>> No.6459482
File: 32 KB, 427x258, XGKGrKpl.png.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6459482

>>6454289
>>6459349
>>6459402
Pic not related. But to answer the question:

The GG and SMS versions split early on, this can be seen by the presence of the unused Marble Zone music in the SMS build and the unused Marble Zone bat sprite in the GG build. However, the SMS version was almost certainly first, why?

The graphics do not utilise the Game Gear's superior colour palette (4096 vs SMS's 64) except for places where graphics HAD to be redrawn specifically for the GG.

The Sonic sprite in the SMS version actually uses a variable number of hardware sprites depending on animation. When Sonic bounces on a spring and is looking upwards, he is one sprite taller than normal. By some weird quirk of the SMS's GPU it actually has a couple of extra graphic tiles free that the GG does not. Guess where the tips of Sonic's feet used in those extra sprites are in VRAM?

It does not make sense that the GG sprite would have been developed first considering that the sprite layout for the SMS is much more complex. It makes more sense that the SMS sprites had to be downsized and fitted into a smaller, fixed, number of tiles.

See this thread for details on the GG/SMS Sonic sprite sizing issues:

https://www.smspower.org/forums/16582-FINISHEDSonicTheHedgehogGameGearSMSStyleEdition

>> No.6459486

>>6459464
Yeah but it's not just the graphics and sound, it's also details about the screen resolution. SMS has more resolution, that's fair, but it seems the game wasn't designed for it:
See: >>6454289
>you can't see certain spikes on the floor on SMS, but you can see them on GG. On SMS you have to press down and wait for the screen to scroll down to see them, on GG you can readily seem them without extra input/waiting.
And again: Yuzo himself said it started as a project for Game Gear.
I'm thinking it started development as GG, then they were tasked to also make a port for SMS, since it's almost the same hardware, and they kept developing both at the same time, but putting more emphasis on GG.

>> No.6459496

>>6459486
>And again: Yuzo himself said it started as a project for Game Gear.

Firstly, this could be a hazy memory, and secondly the GameGear would have been more recognisable to US audiences, so he may have said that for clarity, not for accuracy. The SMS market in Europe/Brazil was extremely large and I would wager that an SMS port was put into motion in the early days when SEGA were still considering ports to home computer systems like the Amiga & ZX Spectrum. Uptake of the MegaDrive was slower in Europe due to higher retail prices and lower wages; the SMS remained a seller with regular new games well into the Saturn era.

>> No.6459512
File: 218 KB, 333x639, 2020-05-23_2124.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6459512

>>6459482
But both sprites look different. The GG sprite is not a a downsized version of the SMS sprite (which is the whole point of that ROMhack in the thread you linked to, they applied the SMS sprite on the GG game).
I dunno, I'll still go with what Yuzo said personally. It could be that they started development on SMS first, or at the same time as GG. But the point stands that this game was made with GG in mind first and foremost, and there's not only Yuzo's own words to back this up, but also the actual details on the way the layout works in favor of GG over SMS, despite the bigger resolution on SMS.
Also.. regarding that romhack and that thread. The guy says "Horrible port", but the GG game is just more better looking than the SMS version. And honestly, look at pic related, do you think the upper one (GG) sprite looks better than the bottom one (SMS)? Sonic's eyes look fine on GG, but they look weird and googly on SMS, one pupil is bigger than the other, it looks derpy. This guy calling the GG sprite horrible is just blinded by nostalgia. I'm not shitting on the SMS sprite (although I do think it looks worse), but the only way I could see for people to prefer the SMS sprite is by nostalgia only.

>> No.6459534

>>6459496
>Firstly, this could be a hazy memory, and secondly the GameGear would have been more recognisable to US audiences, so he may have said that for clarity, not for accuracy
I'll consider this possibility, but that's still just speculation. I'll still take the Yuzo word.
I think that it makes more sense that the whole project started for Game Gear, and SMS was added because of that 2nd market the game would have on Master System, but with GG as the main focus.

>> No.6459554

>>6459512
This actually proves the point -- the top image is using more colours than the SMS could. Sonic's spikes are kept short specifically to force him to fit within two sprites width.

The bottom image shows the limited number of colours from the SMS, and just downsizing the SMS sprite didn't look too good *so it had to be redrawn*, this is proof that the SMS sprite came first. You cannot start with the GG sprite and get to the SMS's much bigger, more complex sprite, especially when considering the additional complexity in the code. Had the GG version came first then they logically would have reduced the colours for the SMS and called it a day, and not have gone to the length of rewriting the whole Sonic sprite handling just to make the sprite a little bit larger.

Also, the screenshots show how the game is not designed for the GG hardware at all -- the background graphics do not use the extra colours at all, and the positioning of the ground so high up with the trees cut off makes no sense for the GG's limited screen size whatsoever. In fact, the fact that the ground is at that level is an internal detail I can't really explain easily, but suffice to say the GG was not the intended recipient.

>> No.6459587

>>6459554
>and just downsizing the SMS sprite didn't look too good *so it had to be redrawn*
Or it could just be that they did entirely different sprites for each version. Also you're contradicting yourself, you said:
>It makes more sense that the SMS sprites had to be downsized and fitted into a smaller, fixed, number of tiles.
But now you're saying it's not a downsize and somehow this proves SMS came first? Huh?
Either of the two could have been done first, but that's not evidence about the game being developed with SMS in mind instead of GG, which is what most of the actual proofs point to.
>the background graphics do not use the extra colours at all
The screenshots don't prove anything about GG vs SMS because both are Game Gear screenshots, anon. Those backgrounds are both GG. Also, GG does have more details and colors on GG. For example the forest stage added fruit/flowers to the background, or the animated sunflowers on the first zone.
>and the positioning of the ground so high up with the trees cut off makes no sense for the GG's limited screen size whatsoever
No, it actually makes sense, though. If the ground is lower, then you couldn't see much of the floor when Sonic jumps. Sonic is positioned in the middle of the screen, it makes sense considering the GG's screen size. That way you can see everything clearly. It would be actually suspicious if it was the other way around, having the floor lower, which again would cause issues when Sonic jumps, getting the bottom part of the screen out of the view field.
And again, I'll refer to the major detail about the screen not properly showing the spikes on the floor on SMS, making you press down in order to see them, while you can see them on GG clearly. This is like the SMS' defender achilles' heel, because the main thing pro-SMS guys have to defend Sonic 1 on it is the bigger resolution, but the game doesn't even uses that bigger resolution in its favor.

>> No.6459612

>>6459587
>The screenshots don't prove anything about GG vs SMS because both are Game Gear screenshots, anon
I happen to know from sight that the colours used in the background graphics are exactly the same in both. Changes such as animated sunflowers (and the warning signs) were added to the GG version later.

>because the main thing pro-SMS guys have to defend Sonic 1 on it is the bigger resolution

Actually we have a full disassembly. The code doesn't lie.

And yes, the game does use the resolution; the GG levels had to be modified because play-testing would have showed that people were dying all the time from the limited view. In your example of the spikes not being visible, the same was true of Gen S1 and was typical of platformers at the time that _some_ pits would contain spikes. The reason they had to make them visible on the GG was because the player could not see the bottom of *any* pit, spikes or not.

I can't prove to you that the SMS design utilises the screensize properly without going through every map inch-by-inch, which I have personally done having disassembled this game, and written a level editor for it. The proof is there, I'm not going to the work for you.

>> No.6459626

>>6459612
>The code doesn't lie.
Does the code includes any developer note stating any particular date, or anything that clearly indicates that the game was made for SMS first? I'm not saying GG development started first, I'm considering the possibility of it starting on SMS first actually, but in truth it probably just started on both at the same time.
>the same was true of Gen S1 and was typical of platformers at the time that _some_ pits would contain spikes
Don't remember any particular case like this on Sonic 1. You either see the spikes, or you can tell it's an endless pit. Don't remember ever needing to press down in Sonic 1 MD to see if a pit included pits below.
>The reason they had to make them visible on the GG was because the player could not see the bottom of *any* pit, spikes or not.
Which shows that the game was fine tuned for GG, not so much for SMS.
>I could prove it, but I won't do it, you'll have to trust me because i'm a hacker
OK. I'll trust Yuzo, the actual game developer.

>> No.6459647

>>6459626
>OK. I'll trust Yuzo, the actual game developer.

Agreed;

"I don't remember all the specific details"

>> No.6459656

>>6459647
Yeah, details about how Ancient was stablished. But then he makes it clear:
>but in short, we established Ancient as a company so we could take on the Sonic the Hedgehog project for Game Gear.
At any rate, as I said, I'm not ruling out the possibility of SMS starting first, it could be. Nobody knows. What I know is that the GG version is more polished, and that SMS doesn't really use the bigger resolution to its advantage.

>> No.6459667

>>6459656
I wouldn't say it was an impossibility that the GG was the initial goal, but from spelunking the code this just doesn't seem likely. The question is _how early_ the split occurred; my hypothesis is that Ancient created Green Hill first and the GG was added to the schedule around the time they were prototyping Marble Zone. Something happened that made them decide that the game should not be a 1:1 port of the Gen/MD version -- the requirement of the GG port may have been that very catalyst.

>> No.6459674

>>6459667
Alright, that's a possibility. But sadly no way to be sure, unless someone asks Yuzo directly (he actually is a Twitter user, and he might reply if someone asks him).
I'm not really that interested in knowing whether it was made for SMS or GG first. I'm mostly trying to understand why people claim the GG version is bad, when it clearly is better than the SMS version.

>> No.6459679

>>6452815
>sega system
literally who?

and they really aren't. i grew up only only playing the master system variants, and didn't even know there were better versions available until much later when i got internet access and discovered emulation

they were fine games in their own right, definitely better than nothing, but not as good as the mega drive versions

>> No.6459681

>>6459674
Are you American? I think there will always be that continental divide between those that grew up with the GG (typically USA) and the SMS (Europe).

The GG wasn't a particular success in Europe and that's greatly watered down because so many people owned an SMS, so the GG was always going to be seen as the "inferior" version. In America more people are likely to have only played the GG version given that S1 was the system's last release in that territory.

>> No.6459684

>>6452815
>sega system
the 8bit sonics are for sega master system, the home console, not sega system 1, an arcade board
http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=693

>> No.6459689

>>6459656
How does one explain the first Eggman boss? The obvious idea is that you're meant to wait until he comes down to ram you before you attack, but the GG's tiny screen renders that step pointless and destroys what little challenge the fight had in the first place.

>> No.6459698

>>6459674
>I'm mostly trying to understand why people claim the GG version is bad, when it clearly is better than the SMS version.
playing on a console >>> playing on a handheld

simple as.

>> No.6459701

>>6459679
>literally who?
It's a meme he's been trying to force since years ago.
He posts using random names, and roleplays as different people replying to himself. He even tried this today and got his thread deleted instantly.
Some anons are saying it's australia kun, and it's possible given the evident mental illness.
>>/vr/thread/S6424846

>> No.6459705

>>6454015
i'm pretty sure the intention was to make a GG version of sonic, since it was a current console, then at some point, possibly part way through development, they decided it should be on master system as well, after all, master system was still very popular, and it would be weird not to have your new mascot on a popular system
i wonder if they were just a bit lazy and did their GG development on master system hardware.. i don't know

>> No.6459714

>>6459681
I'm neither American or European, actually.
I didn't grew up with neither GG or SMS, I'm simply basing my opinions as someone who is playing both games for the first time now and doing simple deduction on which version is better.
>>6459689
In practically all Robotnik fights in Sonic games, you can readily reach Robotnik by jumping. Also, I don't think that makes the SMS fight more difficult, you just have to wait more.
>>6459698
Valid point, but when it comes to the game itself, GG just has more graphics, more sound, and the SMS still has questionable design choices that actually make the GG, with its tinier resolution, still better to play.
It's like people now pretending Mega Drive Sonics are irrelevant on original hardware because the HD remakes have widescreen support... but there's nothing wrong with playing the originals, and I feel the same way about GG Sonic 1. In fact, GG is even better.

>> No.6459717

>>6459705
>i wonder if they were just a bit lazy and did their GG development on master system hardware
Aren't both systems very similar hardware-wise?

>> No.6459721

>>6459701
if he wants to be that anal about original names, he should be calling it the Sega Mark III, since the master system is just a localised version of the Mark III

>using the box as evidence
i suppose we should also call the nes "nintendo control deck", too..

>> No.6459729

>>6459721
yeah it's not worth reading into it too much, just a sad schizo.

>> No.6459731

>>6459717
Almost identical, excepting the format of the graphics as the GG has more colours

>> No.6459732

>>6459721
>i suppose we should also call the nes "nintendo control deck", too..
Thanks anon I'm going to use that

>> No.6459739

>>6459732
Don't forget to use random anglo names to reply to yourself.

>> No.6459768

>>6459732
technically speaking, "control deck" is what refers to just the console unit itself, while "nintendo entertainment system" refers to the whole system (the console, compatible accessories, games, controllers, etc)
same with the master system, master system is the whole system, and "Power Base" is the name of the console unit on it's own (at no point was it just called "sega system", though)

the old boxes do mention "the sega system" a couple times, but this would have just been because it was the first such home console by sega in some countries, it's no different to them saying "the sega home console", not that that's what it's actually called, but just because that's the only one

>> No.6459778

>>6459768
you can actually see the box he posted specify the name of the console unit alone
https://femto.pw/79jn.png

>> No.6460591

YUZO TARGETED FOR THE GAME GEAR BUT STILL TOOK THE MASTER SYSTEM INTO CONSIDERATION UNTIL THE MASTER SYSTEM VERSION WAS RELEASED THE FIRST YOU FUCKING IDIOTS

>> No.6460657

>>6460591
do you have a single satisfact to snack that up?

>> No.6461063

>>6459512
Are those fucking marihuana leafs? Based koshiro

>> No.6461140

>>6460657
To step in, "he said so", but I just don't believe this to be accurate. Sonic 1 was in development for a long time and multiple ports were planned to home microcomputers during the design phase. It makes sense that they would also port it to their 8-bit home console that already had a well established market [in Europe/Brazil] since 1985. The Game Gear was being developed around the same time, so sure, it got added to the list, but I don't believe it be the absolute reason for S1 8-bit to exist, and it's provable by the code that work began on the SMS version first.

>> No.6461207

>>6459512
There also seem to be more colors used in the GG version. That said, I like the MS version more for a few reasons. Also, it appears (superficially, at least) that Sonic's life icon is based on the MS version, if that is significant or not.

>> No.6461228

>>6461140
I don't understand why is it so important to you if either version started developed first or which version is the real reason why the game exists. Both came out at virtually the same time (GG took 2 more months, likely to add GG-exclusive polish and I guess also to time it with the holiday season), probably started development at the same time and done simultaneously.
>and it's provable by the code that work began on the SMS version first.
You keep saying this but how can you prove it? I think, in difference to the planned ports for amiga etc, Sonic 1 8bit was different. Yuzo specifically created Ancient for this game and I bet he wouldn't have risked it or picked up interest in doing it for the old mark III, I'm thinking the exciting new Game Gear handheld was the main motor behind Yuzo's enthusiasm on making this game. Doing a Master System version was just a no brainer because it'd be very easy to make both at the same time, but both Yuzo's own words and the fact GG got the preferential treatment make clear which version was the central one.

>> No.6463443

>>6454289
Thanks a lot for posting this video. I had no idea, all this time I was thinking it was actually the opposite, that GG was the worst version. I didn't even knew Game Gear displayed more colours.
I guess it makes sense, since it was released many years later than the Master.

>> No.6463491

>>6454334
>the master system got its best games after the launch of the megadrive, which is pretty damn weird
I don't think so. The Mega drive came out in 88 and devs didn't know how to use it yet at its fullest.

>> No.6463504
File: 4 KB, 320x288, blast.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6463504

>>6452812
sonic blast does not deserve the shit it gets. I fucking grew up with it and I love it.

>> No.6463698

>>6461140
>>6461228
My point is that HE MEANT TO MAKE THE PORT FOR THE GAME GEAR BUT DID THE MASTER SYSTEM VERSION FIRST WITH THE GAME GEAR'S RESOLUTION IN MIND SO THAT HE COULD GET IT OUT TO LOWER END WESTERN MARKETS AND PREPARE FOR THE GAME GEAR VERSION AT THE SAME TIME
You two are so fucking dense.

>> No.6463726
File: 55 KB, 480x360, sonic_the_hedgehog_gamegear_05.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6463726

>>6463698
>You two are so fucking dense.
And yet you're the one capslocking like an angry retard.
Nobody knows the exact detail on the game's production, and ultimately it doesn't matter much. What we know is:
-He said the project took off mentioning the Game Gear
-Master System version came out a bit earlier
-Game Gear version is more polished
It's not too farfetched to assume that Sonic, being a product mainly aimed at americans, got its 8bit iteration mainly made for Game Gear in mind, which was actually popular in USA during its first years, and was a new product Sega was trying to push, so making a Sonic game for it was a no brainer. The Master System port just makes sense because it's basically the same hardware than GG, with some limitations on the color palette.
I doubt they would have made the GG port in less than 2 months, so they most likely worked on both versions at the same time, and the extra time they spent with the GG one was most likely for polish and as I said probably also timing for the holiday season.

>> No.6463797

>>6463726
jungle zone favorite zone. i adored the GG version. sonic 2 on the other hand was fucking terrible on GG

>> No.6463802

>>6463797
Agreed. Sonic 2 wasn't developed by Ancient.
Sonic 2 on GG sucks because of the screen size, a problem that Sonic 1 GG doesn't have.
Sonic Chaos, however, was fine.

>> No.6464162

>>6463726
>got its 8bit iteration mainly made for Game Gear in mind

The product doesn't show this though -- it doesn't reflect a GG-first design. It doesn't use the extra colours everywhere, only the Sonic sprite does, which had to be redrawn for GG because it wouldn't fit in VRAM (the SMS has very slightly more VRAM available).

The levels are scaled around the SMS screen, in the proportion of the background elements, trees for example, fit within the SMS screen, but are cut off on GG. If the game were *designed for* the GG -- which is what is being argued here -- then the screen elements would have been designed to fit better. Instead what the levels show is that the game was adapted for the GG *after* the SMS, not the other way around.

>> No.6464170
File: 326 KB, 320x255, mifJ3Au.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6464170

>>6452812
I liked that 1 had that world map screen

>> No.6464184
File: 22 KB, 418x245, sonic1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6464184

>>6464162
Again, this is all assumptions, none of us know exactly how the development process was, and most likely, both versions were developed at the same time. But there's more than 1 reason to think Sonic 1 8-bit was made with Game Gear in mind first and foremost, and they just took the opportunity to port it/develop it alongside for SMS since it was very easy to do. Things like Yuzo himself saying it, the fact GG was more popular in USA than the SMS, the fact the GG version is more polished.
>only the Sonic sprite does
What about the background on the jungle zone? GG has more stuff in it. Also it's not even only the colors, the sunflowers on GG have animations on GG; not on SMS.
>which had to be redrawn for GG because it wouldn't fit in VRAM (the SMS has very slightly more VRAM available).
Maybe, but what about that ROMhack some guy did that added the SMS sprite on Game Gear?
>The levels are scaled around the SMS screen
Arguable, anyway again, there is a possibility that both were done at the same time.
The same way you bring up the palm trees being cut off (which isn't even a problem because you can still see the rest of them when you jump, plus it's only barely the top part that's cut, you can still see like 95% of them), I can tell you that the game wasn't *designed for* the SMS because of that detail about not even being able to see the spikes without having to press down, while you can see them on GG.
But really, I don't think there's enough evidence to support one over the other. I just think the game was developed with both systems in mind at the same time but with a priority for Game Gear, which in the end is the best version. The only thing SMS has going for it is the bigger resolution, but it doesn't even play in its favor, so.

>> No.6464275
File: 88 KB, 558x600, 1309451145762.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6464275

>>6464170
>sky base music

>> No.6464484

>>6464184
It's almost like having extra months to fiddle with the literal same game code you shipped for SMS somehow granted you the opportunity to add more polish. Who would have thought?

>> No.6464502

>>6464484
Yeah, and? It's not like they did the whole GG version in just 2 months, so the point stands. Both were probably developed at the same time, but the core of the whole discussion is about GG version being the definitive, as the only thing SMS has going for it (more resolution) wasn't even properly implemented.
I guess, as said earlier, no matter what people who grew up with SMS will keep nostalgic for it and will keep thinking as GG S1 as the "inferior port", but when you actually start comparing between the two, it's evident MS version isn't the best. And neither is a port because both were likely developed at the same time, for practically the same hardware.

>> No.6464537

>>6464502
>It's not like they did the whole GG version in just 2 months
Why not? That is way more than enough time for a SMS->GG conversion plus QA.

>> No.6464628

>>6458415
Doesn't look shitty enough to be Ken's art

>> No.6465189

>>6464537
You say so? Anyway, as I said, I'm not interested in which one was developed first, but which one is the best version.
Someone should just go and ask Yuzo on Twitter about the "which one came first" thing. He speaks english ;)

>> No.6465216

>>6453109
this game isn't that bad ,the graphics are horrible but levels are fun and the momentum mechanics work pretty well.
Better than Sonic 4.

>> No.6465326

>>6452812
interesting how Sonic never made the jump to 3D. In fact Sonic was kind of finished by like 1995/96, and now the only thing Sonic is known for is weird furry fan porn fetish surrounding it.
Shame.

>> No.6466364

>>6465326
>interesting how Sonic never made the jump to 3D.
http://underratedretro.com/press/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Sonic-Adventure-PAL-DC-front.jpg

>> No.6466372

>>6453109
>O POCO ESPINHO MAIS FAMOSO DO MUNDO ESTÁ DE VOLTA
Did they really just call Sonic a porcupine?

>> No.6468818
File: 13 KB, 470x210, XZewB2j.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6468818

>>6452812
I'm glad this thread exists, I was just thinking about these games today.

Have the Master System games ever been re-released outside of the Wii's Virtual Console? Lots of Sonic collections feature the Game Gear versions, but the Master System versions of Sonic 1 and 2 are far superior to their Game Gear counterparts. I'd love to "own" these games without having to shell out for the original carts, but I'll do that if there are no other options.

>> No.6468908
File: 114 KB, 2040x1536, SonicTheHedgehog-LabyrinthZone-Act1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6468908

bump

>> No.6469037

>>6468818
>but the Master System versions of Sonic 1 and 2 are far superior to their Game Gear counterparts
Sonic 2, yes. Sonic 1, not really, see: >>6454289

>> No.6469058

>>6469037
Interesting, I had never looked too much into it, maybe I'll give the GG version of 1 another chance. Also, after looking at Ebay, I'm not sure why I was under the impression that these games were expensive, they're really not bad at all. I may pick up a copy of 2 and just play the GG version of 1 on one of the many Sega/Sonic compilations.