/vr/ - Retro Games

>>642058
On paper, the N64 is the most advanced 5th gen system (which makes sense as PS1 and Saturn came out before it). In reality not so much because it was severely hamstrung by the cartridge architecture.

PS1 is overall the least advanced, but it was also the simplest and easiest to develop for

The Nintendo 64 had better specs in every single way except texture memory.

Some N64 games had fewer polygons than PS1 games because the system consumed a lot of resources in turn to produce proper non-glitchy 3D unlike the mess you see on Sony's machine.

Also, ignore the mad and delusional people who think texture filtering is a liability not a benefit.

>>642074
>Make powerful console
>Make it work with obsolete cartridges
>Make it extremely complex to program

The N64 was a master ruse for the developers.

Depends on what kind of games. N64 is more of a casual/party console for people who want to play a quick round of MK64 with no load time. PS1 and Saturn are more for the serious gamer.

So it all depends on what kind of gaming you like.

The N64 is to the PSX what the Genesis is to the SNES.

Cannot stand by itself but it is fine to own it as a 2nd console.

>>642086
Nintendo kind of boxed themselves into a corner. They pissed off every optical media manufacturer and as they lacked the infrastructure to produce it themselves, they had no choice but to remain with cartridges.

Sony had a huge competitive advantage because they could manufacture all PS1 components in-house.

As for the Saturn, it was originally meant to be a 2D console, but 3D hardware was tacked onto it in a hurry to compete with the PS1. The dual-CPU architecture was expensive to manufacture and hard to program, plus it used rectangular polygons instead of triangles (which most industry-standard 3D design software was based around)

On the other hand, the Saturn was superior at 2D sprite games since the PS1 and N64 could only fudge sprites by putting flat textures on top of polygons.

>>642086
I think Yamauchi said he deliberately asked for the N64 to be hard to develop for because he hoped it would weed out the shit developers from making games for it.

>>642084

>proper non-glitchy 3D unlike the mess you see on Sony's machine

I see people say things like this quite often, but I've never noticed any glaring faults with the way the Playstation renders, myself.
What is it that's so egregiously horrible about the Playstation's 3D rendering?

>>642107
It all goes to show you that Nintendo and Sega were both pretty amateurishly-run companies, but it didn't matter when they competed with just each other because they played by the same rules. Sony's game was completely different and neither were prepared for it.

>>642058
Like most generations, there is one much more powerful than the others and it's not until the end of the lifespan that developers have really worked out how to get the most from the system.

Look at any big and late N64 game and compare them to anything on the PS1 and they throw them out the water. But early on in the race PS1 had massive support from third parties and had games like Metal Gear Solid and Tomb Raider showing off its power earlier.

Just like the Gamecube after it, the most powerful of its generation and Resident Evil 4 shows it.

>>642125

>rectangular polygons

Wait, what? Wouldn't that be incredibly resource intensive compared to triangular polygons?
Why on earth would they do that?

>>642084
N64 could move 160,000 polygons while PS1 could move 360,000

>>642140
Fucking hell do I know. As I said, the Saturn wasn't even originally designed to have 3D.

>all the cartridge hate

>2013 see the world abandon all disk and optical media

stay mad, the cartridge will always be superior format

>>642138
No, just no.

>>642140
I read somewhere that the Model 3 board does the same thing, and that's why Dreamcast ports were problematic.

>>642138
>Gamecube
>most powerful 6th gen console
No. Xbox was objectively the most powerful console. Where the hell did you get that bit of misinformation.

>>642105
But the Genesis can stand by itself, it has a library that rivaled the SNES unlike the massive discrepancy between the amount of games the N64 got and the PS1 got.

>>642151
Pay no attention to the high school kidiots bro.

>>642127

It worked, the 300 something games on it are all decent with shovelware being almost nonexistent

>>642145
Yep, no Blu-Ray in these new consoles, nosiree

wait...wut?

>>642145
Remember: We're talking in a 1990s context, not in a 2010s context. Optical media had every advantage back then except load time.

>>642145

It might be with today's flash memory technology practically perfected and the ability to store several orders of magnitude more data on a thumb drive than what an N64 cartridge was capable of, but back then the vastly superior storage space of cartridges was more important than the speed of flash memory.

>>642153
>Superman 64

>>642140
This had the effect of making Saturn games generally look blockier than PS1/N64

>>642151
Let me guess: Sega does what Nintendon't?

Marketing-affected fag detected.

>>642153
>It worked, the 300 something games on it are all decent with shovelware being almost nonexistent

>>642158
Not as durable, either.

>>642151
>it has a library that rivaled the SNES

I love Genesis, but no, it really didn't.

>>642130
Have you really never noticed the polygon jitter and warping textures?

Saturn also fell victim to shit marketing and the infighting between Sega of Japan and Sega of America

The decline of arcades (Sega's bread-and-butter) also played a part in it

>>642168
You're not even quoting that famous bit of advertising right, it's obvious that you're a 15 year old "hipster" who just got into games from watching AVGN.

>>642158

not really, all devs did was put shitty Casio mp3 music on it, along with shitty early CGI avi

>>642168
If that is all you can say then your input is meaningless.
>>642175
It really does. It just didn't have franchises that were established years ago from the 8-bit days.

>>642165

yeah, what else?

>>642182
You don't think optical media was mucho cheaper and had 20x the storage space of a cartridge? The extra media content was nice but far from the only advantage.

>>642175
You sound like you don't know much about the Genesis then, if that's what you think.

Nintendo's licensing policies during this period were ridiculous and drove away most third party support.

>>642149

I can't think of any reason to use rectangular polygons other than a bloody-minded determination to have SOMETHING to set them apart from the competition.

>>642194
Genesis has 915 games. SNES has around 1400.

>>642164

why do you assume I'm some underage faggot?

I never liked optical media or understood why everyone saw it as a strenght, even back then

it's a shitty format not made to endure anything

>>642204
>I never liked optical media or understood why everyone saw it as a strenght, even back then

Oh wow

>>642204
>why do you assume I'm some underage faggot?

Because you can't even spell strength correctly

>>642130
>What is it that's so egregiously horrible about the Playstation's 3D rendering?

Unfortunately the faults with the PS1's 3D rendering are not subjective matters of opinion, but actual facts.

The PS1 does not support texture filtering (resulting in pixelated textures), anti-aliasing (resulting in jaggies), perspective-correct textures (resutling in affine-mapped textures prone to warping) and a lack of hardware z-buffer support (resulting in unstable polygons).

These faults are present in every single PS1 game because they are as a result of inherent omissions in the hardware.

>>642141
>N64 could move 160,000 polygons while PS1 could move 360,000

That's only when the N64 is using accurate render modes. When it uses inaccurate PS1 style rendering modes it is capable of 500 000 to 600 000 polygons per second.

>>642202
Quality over quantity.

>>642185
Jeopardy. Those Sesame Street games. South Park. The sports games that made up basically 20% of the entire library.

>>642202
Where are you getting 1,400?

>>642153
>Pilotwings 64
>not shovelware
>in-house Nintendo product
>totally not shovelware
>still waiting for Pilotwings 128

>>642186

that was the only advantage, more space and most games really didn't benefit from it.

I don't understand how some N64 games couldn't look twice as good as those on PS1. The N64 is 64-bit which means it can make 64 things at once, unlike the PS1 which only does 32.

>>642202
Wii has over 1200 games. Xbox 360 has over 900.

Guess which had the better library?

>>642214
>That's only when the N64 is using accurate render modes. When it uses inaccurate PS1 style rendering modes it is capable of 500 000 to 600 000 polygons per second

That is true, but Nintendo was obsessed with making graphics look as smooth as possible so they wouldn't approve games that used inaccurate rendering.

>>642212

oh wow a typo

>>642216

the sports games are not shovelware

>>642225
I suppose he's counting each region separately.

>>642221
Now you're demonstrating your lack of tech knowledge and general /v/-ness

So I'll explain. N64 is really only a 32-bit console since 95% of its games have no 64-bit code in them, and due to system bottlenecks and limited space, it was not practical to use it.

>>642204

How was I assuming you're "some underage faggot"?
I was just explaining why you are wrong.
Idiocy isn't age-restricted.

>>642235

I think he was joking, but alright.

>>642214

Oh, I see.
I never really noticed, but I played on a tiny-ass TV.

>>642234

>>642216
You're not counting NFL Blitz, are you? Because that game was fun.

>>642226
>>Pilotwings 64

Never played it but it got a decent score from then uncorrupt IGN

>>642242
PS1 games do look extremely pixelated, however this was not seen as a problem back then as devs reasoned that CRTs provided free anti-aliasing.

>>642216
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hokey is fucking awesome.

>>642234
They are when a single company puts out a new game for each sport every goddamn year.

>>642223
Wii?

>>642226
What are you even saying? Pilotwings 64 was incredible, and even Pilotwings Resort on 3DS was great, if short.

>>642256
It would make THEIR games shovelware then, not the genre.

Not that you would know it, but the Saturn actually had more games than the N64 with around 520

>>642264
They do; they make anything look softer.

ITT: long dead console wars and subjective opinions stated as facts

>>642251
CRTs don't provide free anti-aliasing, they provide free scaling (so you can use whatever funky resolution you want and get away with it). Everybody noticed the hideous jaggies in early PS2 games, and it was still CRTs only back then.

>>642256
Not really. New features, graphics, rosters, etc. If you don't like sports games, whatever, but don't throw them all under the bus because you aren't a fan.

>>642263
Because Japan actually liked the Saturn.

>>642130

>>642214
pointed out all the horrors of the PS1 3D rendering. The lack of perspective-correct texturing was really the most annoying for me. Pic related, it's Front Mission 3 and its cut-scenes taking place in wobbly urban environment.

>>642269
Welcome to /vr/.

Enjoying your first time here?

>>642259
Both have pretty solid libraries once you sift through the shit. But that's for another board.

>>642251

Is that why PS1 games look so horrible on an emulator?

>>642267
Now, the funny thing is that they only sold 10 million Saturns and yet it had around 50% more games than the N64 which sold about 30 million.

>>642276
That's exactly it. Your crystal-clear computer monitor exposes all the jaggies that were hidden by TV sets back then.

>>642267
And yet they didn't like the Megadrive that much.

Shit taste, Japan, as usual.

>>642279
75% of all Saturns were sold in Japan. N64 was strongest in North America.

>>642234
There are many more bad or mediocre sports games than there are ones that are actually good. NFL Blitz being an obvious exception.

>>642223
You should have really done a comparison between the Wii and PS3, dumbass.

>>642283

Right.
Well, thanks, I've learned a lot.

>>642285
During the 16-bit era, Nintendo's name was golden and as the SFC had all the RPGs, guess what Japs were going to buy?

>>642236

Is it really so hard to see that CDs only advantage was the price?

the N64 was more powerful but the Playstation had better looking games somehow at least in my opinion

>>642276
Emulators have their own filters, some video plugins can make they look way better than the original. Also >>642283

>>642251
Especially since the vast majority of PS1s were used with RF or composite output which added even more fuzz. They could use S-video, but it wasn't very common.

>>642298
Didn't the PC Engine out perform the Mega Drive as well in Japan?

>>642303
I hope you're kidding.

>>642298
Now you see that was why the N64 was a dud in Japan. No RPGs. Saturn had them and so did PS1.

>>642276
Depends. If using an accurate software renderer, PS1 games look like ass because the resolution is really fucking low, and it's made all the more obvious when scaled up to fill a modern screen. If using a hardware renderer, the 3D technically looks better and with less jaggies, but the polygon jitter becomes even more pronounced and noticeable.

>>642310

Well, it DID have Sherlock Holmes TWO YEARS before the competition.
SHERLOCK HOLMES.

>>642318
5th gen games in general look pretty bad on HDTVs while 2D stuff usually is ok unless you have a shitty brand of TV.

>>642267
>>642310

the Saturn and PC engine obviously did well in Japan because of all the very good arcade ports those consoles got

>>642298
Yeah but even the PC Engine did amazingly well in comparison as >>642310 said.

And it's even stranger because 95% of the best Genesis games are Japanese. Plus it was the closest hardware-wise to the arcades at the time, and we all know how much Japan fucking loves their arcade scene.

>>642253
Hell yeah, motherfucker.

>>642309
I don't even think 6th gen consoles used connections other than composite very often. That was the cable they all shipped with and most people were too cheap/lazy to buy an S-video or component cable.

>>642292

I think you need a reality check

the only ones that come close to being shovelware are the Cruisin' ones, even though they were fun in their own crappy way

>>642326
PC Engine got a head start on Nintendo. The Famicom's sales were actually dropping in 88-89 in response to pressure from the new 16-bit consoles.

>>642317

nope, the slow read speeds bundled with PS1s shitty hardware made sure that games didn't really take advantage of all that space

>>642319
Well excuse me for not knowing the release date on such things.

>>642329
I've never tried 5th gen games on my HDTV so I can't say. I tried Gamecube and Wii stuff, but they use proper 480i and not 240p which tends to cause the TVs problems.

>>642337

Must have been strange to be into gaming at that time, with a lot of new consoles from new companies coming out every year, some of them costing as much as a decent desktop computer costs today, and no real way of knowing what was good and what was fucking awful but word of mouth.

>>642337
Stateside, I remember the NES going on sale in 88 for $89 around Christmas so we got one at the K-Mart.

Nintendo was still doing strong Stateside and we were a gaming population explosion.

PS1 proved that the more advanced hardware doesn't always sell. Like how the IBM PCs beat out numerous more advanced 16-bit computers at the time.

>>642343

Sorry, that was probably way too obtuse.
Here's what I was referencing.

>>642359
Same with NES, as well as the newer gens, like PS2 and Wii.

>>642356
Nintendo was not seriously threatened in the North American market. The NES did face competition from the Genesis somewhat, but it wasn't as bad as Japan at that time.

>>642348
This is why Square chose to put FF7 on N64, right?

I don't even know why I'm replying to an obvious troll.

>>642370
Incidentally, the NES didn't face any actual more powerful competition. I know you're going to claim the Master System was better, but on paper the two consoles' specs balance each other out.

>>642348
You honestly believe that the N64's lack of space did not influence developer decisions at all?

Seriously?

>>642376
Square wanted space for multimedia stuff, although it's been worked out that the actual game code+graphics data was around 250MB, more than double the largest N64 cartridge.

Also of course Sony vigorously promoted FF VII as a tech demo for the PS1

>>642371
In 1989, NoA execs were lighting $100 bills with cigars and all that. Many wags were predicting that they would experience a huge fall just like Atari, although Nintendo kept insisting they knew exactly what that company did wrong and how to avoid it.

The Genesis took them by surprise, but it didn't yet have any killer apps in its first two years (remember that Sonic didn't appear until 91 by which time the SNES was out)

>>642374

Sure, it allowed them to be as lazy as they liked and think of everything but the gameplay.

>>642376
>FF7 that game could have easily been squeezed in a cart if they cut out the superfluous shit

>>642398
Lemme get this straight. There were no PS1 games with good gameplay out of all the 2300-something titles released for it.

>>642381
>Also of course Sony vigorously promoted FF VII as a tech demo for the PS1

You mean that tech demo of FF6? That was never billed as FF7. People only assumed it was, and the rumor spread.

>>642398

That doesn't even make sense.

>>642390
Genesis still beat SNES in the American market. Barely, but it did.

>>642398
>FF7 that game could have easily been squeezed in a cart if they cut out the superfluous shit

In other words, compromising what they wanted to put in the game.

I think we've found the "limitation" you've been looking for.

>>642413
SNES was easily dominant in Japan. NA probably about even, although the Genesis may have had a slight edge due to its earlier start. PAL regions Sega won hands-down.

>>642416

Really? I live in Australia and absolutely no one I knew owned a Genesis.
Everyone had a SNES.

>>642419
I don't know anyone who has AIDS, but I'm pretty sure it exists.

>>642419
Ok well maybe not Australia. I was primarily referring to Europe and Brazil both of which were total Sega territory (although IIRC Brazil was NTSC).

>>642136
sony fanboyism is disgusting

>>642214
N64 was also able to reach 60 fps stable with 30 enemies on screen, see F-Zero X. ofc that looked like ass, but 60 fps stable! On a console!

>>642138
>gamecube
>most powerful
what?

>>642442
>two long term companies get their asses handed to them by someone new to the game.

It's not even fanboyism, look at the fucking sales figures.

>>642153
>Chameleon Twist
>racing games unless you're into arcade racers or fun racers

>>642447
Full 60 fps animation was not generally desirable on consoles back then because of NTSC artifacting, at least not 2D stuff

Sorry to semi-hijack this thread but I'd like to know what the most technically superior games were for either console? i.e. which one pushed the hardware to its limits?

>>642153
>those countless wresting games
>that lackluster wipeout port
>not shovelware

>>642456
what's wrong with racers being fun?

>>642467
N64...probably Factor 5 games that used full 480i resolution. PS1 fuck do I know.

>>642419
>Really? I live in Australia and absolutely no one I knew owned a Genesis.

That's strange as hell, because the Mega Drive/Genesis really killed it in Australia. Mattel ran SNES distribution from 1992 until 1994 and didn't have a clue how to market it. Nintendo didn't catch up until they established their own local subsidiary.

>>642475
One could consider that a feather in Nintendo's cap since Factor 5 used 480i for in-game graphics while it was never used on the PS1 for anything but static screens.

>>642480
oh... is that why we sometimes get weird posts saying that the SNES was popular until the mid-90s? Are they aussies not realizing it wasn't the same for the entire world?

>>642493
Reminds me of Britbongs who act as if we were poor mean old sods who didn't appreciate Amigas

>>642493
was never popular until the mid-90s*

>>642467
For Nintendo 64 it is Conker's Bad Fur Day, Perfect Dark and Battle for Naboo (just about goddamn everything in these games)

Banjo Tooie (stuff like bi-directional stenciled shadows) and World Driver Championship (highest polygon count of the 5th generation) can also be included in that last, despite some flaws (a lot of slowdown in the former, and lack of polish in the latter).

>>642498
I find the Amiga insteresting for what it was capable of/people pushed it to do compared to other computers at the time, though my introduction to it was emulation... which I guess the brits that go here would get pissy about

>>642473
Nothing, it's just that there was no GT like game for the N64 but tons of arcade and fun racers instead.

>>642514
Amiga was only relevant here in 86-90 and largely as a niche platform for gaming. It was far from a loser system, but at that point in time computers not named Apple had to be IBM compatible to sell.

>>642504
>World Driver Championship
just watched some video of this out of curiosity, that is pretty impressive, could almost pass for a dreamcast game if it weren't for the lack of polish that you mentioned. Also it looks like a pretty dull game.

>>642271
Can you say me how is that game called?

>>642575
Front Mission 3

>Emulating FF8 in hi-res with AA, etc
>First scene in the infirmary after Squall got sliced up by Seifer
>"Oh well this looks pretty damn good, Square sure cou-"
>Squall turns his head and explodes into pixels
Damn, I always hated that about the PS1. Every time a model animated it would turns into a blurring mess of squares. But, although I haven't played it in years, I remember Spyro's full 3D world to look pretty damn great?

>>642556
The reason why that game has so many polygons for an N64 title is because it uses a custom microcode that is a compromise between the high-accuracy 3D of most N64 games ands the low-accuracy 3D of PS1 games.

Wasn't Sin and Punishment pretty damn high poly?

N64 was crippled by Nintendo's insistence on higher image quality than the hardware was capable of at an acceptable framerate. N64 could have been good if it was allowed to use PS1 style textures.

>>642467
For PS1 I always thought Vagrant Story looked pretty damn impressive.

>>642467
PS1: Tekken 3
N64: F-Zero X

Anything running at a slower framerate can't be "superior".

>>642635
I covered that earlier in the thread. N64 was only capable of 60 fps if you severely cut down the graphics quality, but the latter was Nintendo's main priority to the extent that they wouldn't approve games which had low-quality textures.

>>642597
I never remember PS1 games looking all that jaggy, but again composite inputs+CRT gives plenty of anti-aliasing.

>>642664
#1 Tobal 2 looked better than Tekken 3
#2 F-Zero X was very bland looking. Rush 2049 pushed the system further than FZX.

>>642447
>but 60 fps stable! On a console!

Tekken 1-3
Virtua Fighter 2
Last Bronx
Crime Killer
R4 version of Ridge Racer
Tobal 2
Dynasty Warriors
Ray Tracers
Saturn Outrun

I'm sure there are plenty I haven't mentioned..

>>642150
You're right, Gamecube was the second most powerful, though.

>>642181
>hipster
Go away, please

>>642216
...I liked South Park...

>>642153
>Superman 64
>Carmagedddon 64
>Lots of shit licensed games
>not shovelware

>>642058
The N64 is more powerful on a number of levels than the PSX. One of the most blatant advantages, beyond a better CPU and a secondary CPU and the ability to render polygons which didn't wobble, was the cartridges. Wheras the PSX could only access data held in its 2MB of ram, the N64 had up to 8mb of ram to play with, and it could use the cartridges, which went up to 64MB, for rapid access memory.

Bear this is mind: Conker's Bad Fur Day has roughly 2 hours of voiced dialogue on the cartridge. The capacity of the N64 cartridges was rarely an issue. Devs just worked around it. And they were grateful for the clear benefits they offered.

Yes, workarounds were found for some of the PS1's problems by talented developers. But at the end of the day, the N64 was still a far more powerful console. All that stuff about no third party support is lies and misunderstanding. The N64 wasn't very big in Japan, so Japanese devs didn't embrace it. Simple. Most of the great N64 games were by Rareware, a British dev. But pretty much all the major players put games on the N64. Konami put heaps of games on it. Capcom spent a million dollars porting Resident Evil 2. Natsume made Harvest Moon 64. The list goes on and on. People mistake Nintendo's deliberate choice to have fewer games with more quality control for devs abandoning Nintendo.

Let's be honest. You are not going to find any games on the PS1 which come close to Conker's Bad Fur Day. It's pretty clear cut. The PS1 was hampered by slow CD access times, half the ram of the N64, and a much older CPU. Plus the notorious problems with the PS1's 3D rendering.

N64 games tend to look great upscaled on emulators.
PS1 games tend to look terrible.
That's one reason why comparing high resolution screenshots is discouraged. (That screenshot is native resolution, BTW.)

>>643973
And Perfect Dark's graphics may have lacked the dazzling stuff from Turok 3, but it still has more detail, better animation, and bigger maps than anything the PS1 could offer. Plus an insane selection of weapons at your fingertips.

Interesting to note that that N64 devs loved to use LOD models. Perfect Dark uses them, and it is a bit more noticable at high resolution, when the lower detail model gets swapped. Even Mario 64 uses a low detail model for Mario at a distance.

>>643991
And Majora's Mask drastically improved the notoriously poor textures from Ocarina of Time, which a lot of people cite as an N64 failing.

>>644001
Here's a better example.

>>643973
Imagine CBFD if it used the ExPak

>>643973
>The capacity of the N64 cartridges was rarely an issue
I see that you never developed for the N64

>>644009
No dude, 64MB is SOOOOO much better than 700MB.

>yfw you realize that console wars are stupid and in any case you were a PC master race gamer as a child

>>644006
That ground is blurry as fuck. Even the cow is. The only detailed textures were weapons, people, and masks. Maybe some important things like signs as well, but it was already that way in OoT.

>>644030
PC games in the 90s weren't always the Master Race.
I thought I was hot shit with my Street Fighter Alpha and MMX Cd-Roms until I played the SNES versions...

>>644035
I think he's talking more about late 90s PC gaming. Windows 9x and such, around the same time as the N64 and PS1 were the top consoles.

We had Half-Life, System Shock 2, Unreal, Quake II/III, and tons more.

>>642127
Isn't that the same reason they went with the Cell architecture?

>>644032
Of course it's blurry. You can't store a whole lot of texture data in <64MB. For example, there was no way the N64 was going to do the shimmering water here.

>>644038
Right...Windows 9x-era PCs, which were the contemporary of the N64/PS1

>>644032
>That ground is blurry as fuck.
That's not actually a problem. OoT's ground was all blocky and quilty. This is SMOOTH. It's a marked improvement. As is the draw distance.

>>644010
>Imagine CBFD if it used the ExPak
Rareware couldn't find a use for it. How exactly do you improve on 64MB of read-only virtual ram?

>>644016
>No dude, 64MB is SOOOOO much better than 700MB.
64MB of rapid-access memory which can be read in real time. There's a reason why DVDs are better than Blu Ray's, you know. Access speed. The problems of access speed plagued the PS3 port of GTA 4 and Fallout and Skyrim. Doesn't matter how much data you have if you can't access it fast enough.

>>644063
Most N64 games were 8-24MB. 32 and 64MB carts didn't appear until the end of the console's lifespan.

>>644047
Yeah, both are shit. PC master race. We actually had decent resolution, textures, and framerates.

In fact, I like how the PS1 had more fluid games than the N64. I really hate games dropping down to the 20s and below (hint hint Rareware games)

>>644063
>How exactly do you improve on 64MB of read-only virtual ram?
Quite a lot

>>644047
What, you mean like Wave Race 64?

Water doesn't require textures. It requires shaders. And the N64 could do them much better.

>>644068
Most late 90s PC games were still 2D though...

>>644076
The blurred texture problem is still highly noticeable here

>>644071
That's not true. Ocarina of Time was a 32MB game, released in 1998. So was Turok 2. 32MB cartridges became standard pretty soon after the N64 hit its stride in 1998.

>>644069
>>How exactly do you improve on 64MB of read-only virtual ram?
>Quite a lot
Care to elaborate? I for one detested the fact PS1 games like Metal Gear Solid had multiple load breaks during a single scene.

>>644082
That doesn't really matter, though. Wave Race 64 was a first generation N64 game. The issue here is shaders. (For water.) The N64's textures are GENERALLY objectively better than most PS1 games on the basis that they don't jiggle all over the place.

>>644082

>>644087
Sure, the framerate would suffer a bit, but seeing how CBFD, one of the best looking games, didn't use the ExPak, Rare could've easily had given it enhancements to make it look better.
Widescreen anyone?

>>642214
>The PS1 does not support texture filtering
It could filter framebuffers, which is not something you throw away.

>anti-aliasing
Which are the N64 games that actually use antialiasing? 1st party games sure didn't.

And, by the way: >>643973
No one is denying that N64 crushes the PS1 in tech department, but please stop spreading lies like "PS1 games look bad in upscaling". Because they don't. It makes you sound like a fanboy.

>>644087
Watch this Bad Fur Day intro video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTxjkyaKB3E

See the lack of long load breaks allowing the scenes to flow together? That's cartridges for you.

And no FMV, either.

>>644109
>No one is denying that N64 crushes the PS1 in tech department

Well...yes and no

>>644106
>redrawing the whole area upside down means shaders!

Loads of blurred textures

>>644113
People denying technological facts are just as bad as people going full retard with PS1 GAMES LOOK LIKE SHIT N64 GAMES LOOK GODLY HERE'S WHY.

>>644108
>Sure, the framerate would suffer a bit, but seeing how CBFD, one of the best looking games, didn't use the ExPak, Rare could've easily had given it enhancements to make it look better.
>Widescreen anyone?
No, the reason they didn't use the EXPak was because they couldn't find a use for it. Why didn't they use Widescreen in BFD? No idea. But they mooted getting BFD running in 640x480 with the expansion pack. However, the N64's fill rate was already pushed to the limit.

>>644109

>>644109
>PS1 could filter framebuffers, which is not something you throw away.
The N64 could do framebuffer effects, too. Bad Fur Day and Perfect Dark abused the crap out of the framebuffer for motion blur and such.
>Which are the N64 games that actually use antialiasing? 1st party games sure didn't.
All of them do, AFAIK. Nintendo demanded it.
>stop spreading lies like "PS1 games look bad in upscaling". Because they don't. It makes you sound like a fanboy.
With all respect, they do look very poor. Especially in motion, the PS1's key weakness. Try a shot of MGS where you can actually see Snake's model. Or any character model for that matter.

Had Nintendo used CDs, Sony would be a footnote in console history.

>>644126
Mario 64 was a first gen game. And it used gouraud shading for Mario himself. The textures may be blurry in M64, but they work. And they don't jiggle when you move.

>>644142
>However, the N64's fill rate was already pushed to the limit.
Ah.

>>644151
>Had Nintendo used CDs, Sony would be a footnote in console history.
Had Nintendo used CD's none of the N64's best games would have worked. At all. You do realise how reliant the N64 was on the cartridge format to run its games, don't you? It read data constantly off the cartridge. That's why tilting the cartridge screwed up the game.

Nintendo made the right decision. CDs are vastly inferior to solid state memory. Why do you think Metal Gear Solid 4 has to be installed to the hard drive? Because trying to read data off a CD is simply too slow when you're trying to be ambitious.

>>644165
Case in point: the only N64 games with noticable load breaks are all PS1\PC ports. Wipeout, Resident Evil 2, World is Not Enough, Quake, etc.

Perfect Dark would have been impossible without cartridges. Simple. The game would not have worked.

>>644165
>Had Nintendo used CD's none of the N64's best games would have worked. At all.

Off the record, you could argue that the best games on the PS1 and Saturn wouldn't have worked with cartridges.

>Nintendo made the right decision. CDs are vastly inferior to solid state memory.

Sales figures, price, and the size of the N64's game library vs its competition would say otherwise. Nintendo severely fucked themselves and were set back years by refusing to use optical media.

>>644165
>You do realise

Don't you have an Amiga thread to post in, Yurop?

>>644175
I'm pretty sure any N64 game would have been possible on CDs but numerous PS1/Saturn games were not workable on cartridges at all without being severely cut down.

>>644183
>Off the record, you could argue that the best games on the PS1 and Saturn wouldn't have worked with cartridges.
Depends on how you define best games. After all, Resident Evil 2 was better on N64. And games like 40 Winks were just as good on N64. (Even if N64 version was never officially released.)
Basically, unless the game was FMV heavy, there's little the N64 couldn't do that the PSX could.

>>644183
>the size of the N64's game library vs its competition would say otherwise. Nintendo severely fucked themselves and were set back years by refusing to use optical media.
Nintendo deliberately kept their library small. They didn't want just anyone making games for their console. Which explains the "please make this hardware hard as fuck to code for" logic Nintendo used.

Let's not forget that Goldeneye outsold Halo on the Xbox.

>>644196
>I'm pretty sure any N64 game would have been possible on CDs
You can't stream data in real time off a CD. You simply can't.

Factor 5:
The big strength was the N64 cartridge. We use the cartridge almost like normal RAM and are streaming all level data, textures, animations, music, sound and even program code while the game is running. With the final size of the levels and the amount of textures, the RAM of the N64 never would have been even remotely enough to fit any individual level. So the cartridge technology really saved the day.

>>644214
And now's the time to point out the N64 had x2 the PS1's ram. x4 if one used the expansion pack.

CDs are inferior to solid state. That's why the Vita dropped discs in favor of memory cards.

>>642419
Thats really weird. I'd never even seen a SNES here before. I didn't even know they existed until I went on the internet years later. It was Sega everywhere you went.

>>644142
>The N64 could do framebuffer effects, too.
While framebuffer effects are cool, I meant bilinear. It's probably not bilinear as in true interpolation done in software (it would take more than than a mere second), but the effect remains the same, as you can see with Ape Escape's pause menu. I couldn't find a better shot, sorry. You can notice the effect when you're at the right distance from textures and so they relatively are in their 1:1 scaling, looks just like bilinear.
Duke Nukem 3D also had a filtering option which took this effect to the next level and applied it in all of the game, and you could enable/disable it in the options menu.

>All of them do, AFAIK. Nintendo demanded it.
Define antialiasing, then. Or try to get a good shot out of a real N64 video output, something more advanced than composite, preferably.

>Try a shot of MGS where you can actually see Snake's model. Or any character model for that matter.
Early MGS1 characters (after 1997E3 but before 1998E3) looked somewhat better and even had eyes (I know this because of some pre-release screenshots, and because there's still eye-blinking code left into any line in the game. They probably just dumbed down the models both to save performance and to keep a more consistent style (because characters wouldn't still move their mouths). Remember Mei Ling's and Naomi's models in VR Missions? They were testing PS2 tech on the PS1. That didn't mean it couldn't be done providing you had RAM for it.
Say what you will about models, but the stages look amazing and there's NO limit in distance-drawing whatsoever, as a matter of fact, it lags when you're trying to look forward a very long room.

MGS1 is one of the greatest optimization miracles ever to grace the PS1 line. And on top of that it runs 60FPS. Just wanted to say this because it's true.

>>644196
>numerous PS1/Saturn games were not workable on cartridges at all without being severely cut down.
There are problems with this logic.

The N64 could compress data much better than the PS1. Bad Fur Day had 2 hours of speech in it thanks to mp3.

And most PS1 games are bloated with FMV, which can often be replaced with stuff like ingame rendering.

>>644208
>After all, Resident Evil 2 was better on N64

If you're wearing nostalgia goggles. Someone who played the PS1 version would argue it's better for the same reason so that's not a compelling argument. Personally I never liked RE, so...

>Nintendo deliberately kept their library small. They didn't want just anyone making games for their console. Which explains the "please make this hardware hard as fuck to code for" logic Nintendo used

That's a lesson repeated many many times over the history of consoles and computers which is that if you severely restrict development on a platform, it won't sell because nobody can write software for the thing. It's a reason why in the early 80s, Texas Instruments wasn't successful in the home computer market. They didn't publish any tech info on the TI-99/4A while Apple and Commodore fully documented their machines so anyone could easily program them.

>>644214
...but he forgets that you could hardly store anything on a cartridge so the streaming argument is negated

>>644236
Case in point. Resident Evil 64 had 25MB worth of FMV on a 64MB cartridge. That leaves very little code space.

>>644236
IIRC, N64 didn't actually use MP3 (which didn't even exist in 1996 anyway) but some proprietary encoding method.

>>644239
The N64 sold 30+ million units. It wasn't actually a failure. They sold 224.97 million games for the console.

And Resident Evil 2 N64 is the one favored by the developers behind Resident Evil 2, I believe, since it has features no other version does. Such as removing the god-awful tank controls from all the other versions. Here is a lovely chart.

Give me some SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive to play
and SEGA 32x too

>>644267
It wasn't a dud like the DC, but considering that the PS1 sold 100 million units it's quite a lot smaller.

Also N64 had the smallest game library as even the Saturn had 75% more games despite only selling 10 million units.

>>644263
>IIRC, N64 didn't actually use MP3 (which didn't even exist in 1996 anyway) but some proprietary encoding method.
Actually, it did use MP3. Thanks to all the audio being handled on the MIPS\RISP, devs could use any codec they wished. While Bad Fur Day's is unclear, Perfect Dark... Is clearly using MP3

>>644263
MP3 DID exist in 1996 though. People just went with proprietary encoding methods because they were more reliable, but they weren't really cost-effective at the end of the day, so they all went with MP3.

>>644239
I'm not sure an open-door policy on the N64 would have helped much because it didn't overcome the basic problems inherent in the cartridge architecture.

>>644274
>Also N64 had the smallest game library as even the Saturn had 75% more games despite only selling 10 million units.
Once more, that was a deliberate choice. Nintendo wanted a console with only good games on it. For the most part, they succeeded. You need to realise Nintendo were PREVENTING people making games. It wasn't developers shunning the system.

And there's the additional factor that the console wasn't popular in Japan. So it's no surprise that there wasn't a flood of Japanese titles like the Saturn had.

>>644267
IIRC, N64 was strongest in North America. It was not as popular in PAL regions and an outright flop in Japan.

>>644267
>The N64 sold 30+ million units.
That was mostly America though. It tanked on Yurop and Japan territory.

>>644290
>Once more, that was a deliberate choice
And a very poor one that cost them most third party support
>For the most part, they succeeded
Sure when there's only like three relevant game devs on it (Nintendo, Rare, and Factor 5) and two of them were second parties

>>644296
30 million in one market only is really good.

>>644282
>>644282
>I'm not sure an open-door policy on the N64 would have helped much because it didn't overcome the basic problems inherent in the cartridge architecture.
Except almost nobody considered the cartridges a problem. Why is it so hard for you to believe that developers LIKED working with cartridges over CDs? To be able to make games without load breaks? The storage limit was very rarely an issue. Most PS1 games were tiny, but bloated out with music and video. Both of which could be compressed on the N64.

>>644290
Oh but they did shun it en masse due to the expensive shoebox-sized cartridges.

>>644308
>Except almost nobody considered the cartridges a problem. Why is it so hard for you to believe that developers LIKED working with cartridges over CDs?

What kind of a dream world are you living in? Nobody wanted to use cartridges which was why all third party devs fled Nintendo.

>>644303
>Sure when there's only like three relevant game devs on it (Nintendo, Rare, and Factor 5) and two of them were second parties
That's not true. You're forgetting Konami. Yes, the Konami of Metal Gear Solid fame, strongly supported the N64. And the long list of 3rd party devs who made games for the console. For crying out loud. Sucker Punch? DMA Designs? (aka Rockstar Games.) Acclaim? Koei?

>>644310
>>644317
>Oh but they did shun it en masse due to the expensive shoebox-sized cartridges.
There's no proof of this. This is all hearsay and speculation.
Point to a single developer not named SQUARE who stopped making N64 games after making SNES games.

Anyone?

>>644043
Similar but not identical. They assumed Devs would make a game for the PS3, and then the ass backwards architecture would prevent them from porting it to the competition.

When in reality they just made the games for the 360 and did a half assed port for the PS3.

>>644307
Considering the 110 million combined NESes and SNES sold, it's not a lot. Also only 30% of the PS1's sales volume and 14% of its game library.

>>644327
Yeah you are living in a dream world. Either that or you were 2 years old/not alive yet in 1996. The mass defection of devs to Sony was a _huge_ thing at the time. Most of them only made like a handful of N64 games and double that many on the PS1.

>>644337
Nintenyearolds are beyond all reason anyway

>>644337
Basically it amounted to this:

*Nintendo's ridiculous licensing policies that chased off most devs
*55 cents for a 650MB CD vs $25 for a 64MB (usually less) cartridge
*You could not only get cheaper and bigger games but they could be manufactured and delivered faster

>>644317
>all third party devs fled Nintendo.
Except, you know, this insignificant list of 3rd party developers who made games for the N64.
Konami.
Rockstar\DMA Designs.
Koei.
Acclaim.
Capcom.
Natsume.
Factor 5.
Treasure.
Rareware.
Psygnosis.
Eurocom.
Paradigm Entertainment.
Sucker Punch.
Namco.
Midway Games.
Bandai.

*looks for more developers*

>>644367
Oh, and Ubisoft.

>>644367
That was covered already in >>644337

>>644367
>counting Rare and F5 (both second party devs) as third party

>>644337
>The mass defection of devs to Sony was a _huge_ thing at the time.

So besides Square, who exactly defected? Any NON-Japanese developers? Because making games for the PS1 was economic reality for Japanese devs, not rejection of the N64.

>>644376
>>counting Rare and F5 (both second party devs) as third party
Factor 5 weren't exactly second party. They made PS1 games as well, after all.

>>644378
Are you actually capable of reading comprehension? No of course not because you're that much of a delusional fanboy. So lemme repeat:

>Most of them only made like a handful of N64 games and double that many on the PS1

IOW, one or two token N64 games while their main development focus was on the PS1

who gives a shit about which console is technically best.

I own practically all of them, each one has some decent games, each one has some shitty games. The shitty quality of ps1 games is practically what defined the system, I could give a shit less if the game i'm playing looks good so long as it's fun.

I've been contemplating getting into homebrew development for ps1 for awhile, just waiting on project psio to finish their product to make things easier.

>>644373
That's based on the broken logic that less games = inferior console.

Less games = less shovelware.

>>644391
>IOW, one or two token N64 games while their main development focus was on the PS1
And your proof of this is...?

>>644393
Actually there was shovelware on the N64 such as Monopoly and Sesame Street games.

>>644397
That Konami, Koei, Namco, et all had fully double the amount of PS1 games and most of their marquee franchises on there.

>>644393
Not same guy, but shovelware is a pretty weak argument to use because Nintenyearolds apparently think everyone who owned a PS1 was forced to buy Mary Kate and Ashley: Magical Mystery Mall at gunpoint. Nah, you just looked at those games on the shelf, snickered, and went on to Metal Gear or something.

>>644418
Yeh everyone who had a N64 owned the same 5 games while everyone with a PS1 had totally different stuff

>>644409
There is a basic economic problem here. Japanese devs didn't make as many N64 games because N64 games made less money in Japan. This makes comparing the two somewhat useless. Therefore, it would be best to focus on US\UK developers.

>>644426
Of course. Usually SM64, OOT, MK64, and some Rareware game.

>>644418
Yeah, but Mary Kate and Ashley: Magical Mystery Mall is at least 5x more fun than all of the crappy rehashed nintendo games put together.

Seriously Nintendo, make some new games, new characters, new everything, do something new. You've been doing the same crap since the 80's.

>>644426
>Yeh everyone who had a N64 owned the same 5 games while everyone with a PS1 had totally different stuff
It's not Nintendo's fault everyone bought Goldeneye and nobody bought Turok 3.

>>644438
You do realize Shiggy hasn't had any new ideas since 1992

>>644409
>Monopoly
>Shovelware
Fuck you. As someone who loves the shit out of Monopoly, the N64 version is pretty damn good and also was exclusive to the system. There was an early release ps1 monopoly, but it was god aweful and really simplistic with FMVs all over the place. Now that I think about it, I've probably played every video game adaptation of Monopoly and the N64 one was the best up until it was released on the 360/wii.

Best selling N64 games:

Super Mario 64 (11.62 million)[1][2]
Mario Kart 64 (9 million)[3]
GoldenEye 007 (8 million)[4][5]
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (7.6 million)[6]
Super Smash Bros. (5 million)[7]
Diddy Kong Racing (4.434 million approximately: 3.78 million in US and PAL,[8] 653,928 in Japan)[9]
Pokémon Stadium (3.971 million approximately: 3.16 million in US,[10] 710,765 in Japan,[9] 100,000 in UK)[11]
Donkey Kong 64 (3.77 million approximately: 2.67 million in US,[10] 1.1 million in Japan)[12]
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (3.36 million)[6]
Star Fox 64 (3.325 million approximately: 2.76 million in US,[10] 565,222 in Japan)[9]
Perfect Dark (3.2 million)[13]
Banjo-Tooie (3 million)[14]
Pokémon Snap (2.718 million approximately: 2.22 million in US,[10] 498,155 in Japan)[9]
Mario Party 2 (2.33 million approximately: 1.26 million in US,[10] 1.07 million in Japan)[12]
Banjo-Kazooie (2.256 million approximately: 1.85 million in US,[10] 405,944 in Japan)[9]
Pokémon Stadium 2 (2.15 million approximately: 1.14 million in Japan,[12] 1.01 million in US)[10]
Wave Race 64 (2.105 million approximately: 1.95 million in US,[10] 154,682 in Japan)[9]
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (2.008 million approximately: 1.98 million in US,[10] 28,038 in Japan)[9]
Yoshi's Story (1.953 million approximately: 1.1 million in US,[10] 852,846 in Japan)[9]
Mario Party (1.944 million approximately: 1.23 million in US,[10] 714,358 in Japan)[9]
WCW/nWo Revenge (1.88 million in US)[10]
Star Wars: Episode I Racer (1.798 million approximately: 1.71 million in US,[10] 87,826 in Japan)[9]

>>644448
Mario Tennis (1.76 million approximately, 1.1 million in Japan,[12] 669,958 in US)[15]
Cruis'n USA (1.68 million in US)[10]
Mario Party 3 (1.64 million approximately, 1.02 million in Japan,[12] 624,468 in US)[15]
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (1.634 million approximately: 1.59 million in US,[10] 44,337 in Japan)[9]
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (1.611 million approximately: 1.07 million in Japan,[12] 541,600 in US)[15]
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (1.61 million in US)[10]
Hey You, Pikachu! (1.46 million approximately, 744,870 in Japan, 721,720 in US)[15]
Pokémon Stadium (Japan) (1.37 million in Japan)[8][12]
WCW vs. nWo: World Tour (1.3 million in US)[10]
1080° Snowboarding (1.254 million approximately: 1.23 million in US,[10] 23,908 in Japan)[9]
WWF No Mercy (1.19 million in US)[10]
Turok 2: Seeds of Evil (1.154 million approximately: 1.14 million in US,[10] 13,683 in Japan;[9] 1.4 million shipped)[16]
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter (1.5 million)[17]
WWF WrestleMania 2000 (1.14 million in US)[10]
The World Is Not Enough (1.08 million in US)[10]
Namco Museum 64 (1.04 million in US)[10]
Mario Golf (1.005 million approximately: 534,283 in US, 470,779 in Japan)[15]
Kobe Bryant in NBA Courtside (1 million)[18][17]
Pilotwings 64 (1 million)[19]

>>644447
Monopoly is shovelware of the lowest kind and it was found on essentially every computer and console ever made.

>>644426
If you consider that they sold 30 million N64s and there were only 335 games on it, you're probably right that everyone had the same or nearly the same stuff.

>>644452
Bearing these figures in mind, the PC Master Race's beloved Deus Ex sold 1 million copies.

>>644461
PC games are always going to sell in lower numbers by definition. 1 million copies is a highly successful total for that.

>>644472
Once you get all the Nintendo and Rare games, that's basically 90% of worthwhile N64 stuff.

>>644452
Everything below that sold maybe 10 copies, everytime I see an n64 there's always the same handful of games that come with it.

I'm finished with with my n64 collection, it's the console with both zelda games which was 20 $ at a thrift store until i swapped stickers and paid 3 $ for all of it about 3 years back.

>>644438
>Yeah, but Mary Kate and Ashley: Magical Mystery Mall is at least 5x more fun

I dunno. I'm not brave enough to try it.

>>644418
They'll just pull a no true scotsman and say those games lowered the overall standard which is bull anyway. While in reality there were just as many Mary Kate and Ashley games on Gameboy and Gamecube. Let's just not be /v/ though.

>>644472
2300 games (the total size of the PS1's library) is huge by any definition. I can remember like yesterday going in Electronics Boutique and seeing the giant shelves of PS1 games and the one skimpy little rack of N64 cartridges.

>>644447
>Playing board games on a console.

>>644481
Nintendo was hardly anti-shovelware, it's just that they pushed most of the low-quality games onto the handhelds.

>>644476
>Once you get all the Nintendo and Rare games, that's basically 90% of worthwhile N64 stuff.
That's completely untrue. So many of them are non-Nintendo.

Look at this list of must have titles:
Army Men: Sarge's Heroes.
Goemon's Great Adventure
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Pilotwings 64.
Goldeneye.
Perfect Dark.
Mario 64.
Banjo Tooie.
Banjo Kazooie.
Conker's Bad Fur Day.
Body Harvest. (Precursor to GTA 3.)
Diddy Kong Racing.
San Francisco Rush 2049
Donkey Kong 64.
Harvest Moon 64.
Indiana Jones & the Infernal Machine.
Paper Mario.
Mischief Makers.
Jet Force Gemini.
Rayman 2.
Pokemon Snap.
Rocket - Robot on Wheels.
Super Smash Brothers.
Zelda - Ocarina of Time.
Zelda - Majora's Mask.
Rainbow 6.
Sin & Punishment.
Turok 3.
Yoshi's Story.
Vigilante 8.
Wipeout 64.
World is Not Enough.
World Driver Championship.
WWF No Mercy.

>>644489
Monopoly on a computer or console is conceptually stupid

>>644494
>he says most of the games are third party
>most of the stuff on his list is Nintendo/Rare

The N64 suffers from weeaboos who want to play Japanese games, basically. Face it, kids - the best games on the N64 are from England. So if you want your Japanese stuff, play a PS1.

We'll be over here with our N64 and its library of quality titles from developers all over the world.

>>644483
I worked at EB 1999-2000
The thing I remember most is getting bored and alphabetizing the sprawling PS1 section (it wasn't set up like that back then because EB was still trying to act like it wasn't just a video game store at that point)
That and the damn DK64 demo playing that rap over...and over...and over..

>>644453
How is Monopoly shovelware of any kind? I would have thought crappy movie games and cheap rush job crap like ninjabreadman was more shovelware.

>>644508
>We'll be over here with our N64 and its library of quality titles from developers all over the world

Nintendo - Japan
Rare - UK
Factor 5 - Germany

How about not?

>>644501
Army Men: Sarge's Heroes.
Goemon's Great Adventure
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Body Harvest. (Precursor to GTA 3.)
San Francisco Rush 2049
Indiana Jones & the Infernal Machine.
Mischief Makers.
Rayman 2.
Rocket - Robot on Wheels.
Rainbow 6.
Sin & Punishment.
Turok 3.
Vigilante 8.
Wipeout 64.
World is Not Enough.
World Driver Championship.
WWF No Mercy.

That's still a fair few games, not counting any sequels, and it's only scratching the surface.

>>644483
is Electronic Boutique still in business? I used to get some cool shit from them, they stocked retro stuff for a longgg time after it was 'obsolete'.

I hate Gamestop's monopoly on everything.. I remember being able to go into any small time game store and there was always at least ONE giant tub of retro games.

>>644519
Goemon's Great Adventure
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Body Harvest. (Precursor to GTA 3.)
Indiana Jones & the Infernal Machine.
Mischief Makers.
Rayman 2.
Rocket - Robot on Wheels.
Rainbow 6.
Sin & Punishment.
Turok 3.
Vigilante 8.
World is Not Enough.

There. All shitty games removed.

>>644518
DMA designs. Scotland.

Actually, a large portion of N64 devs were from the UK.

>>644489
Sometimes I just want to play when nobody else is around and hell, I love board games and like seeing how they adapt to becoming video games. It's hard to describe.

>>644447
I remember really liking the NES version

>>644513
>How is Monopoly shovelware of any kind?

I bet he thinks all those Wheel of Fortune games weren't shovelware either.

>>644530
How odd considering how during the NES/SNES days that Brits completely snubbed Nintendo. Mah Say-guh and Mah Amee-Guh

>>644529
WWF on N64 is still considered excellent And the Army Men game on N64 is the best in the series. And Wipeout 64 is much better than the PS1 game. San Francisco Rush 2049 is excellent, as well.

>>644512
>The thing I remember most is getting bored and alphabetizing the sprawling PS1 section

I remember going in EB and my sister asks about the N64. The clerk was like "Oh no you don't want that. You'd be much better off with a PSX."

Smart guy.

>>644542
>How odd considering how during the NES/SNES days that Brits completely snubbed Nintendo. Mah Say-guh and Mah Amee-Guh
Let's just say British developers liked the N64's hardware. They had an aversion to CDs, IMO.

>>644542
Because Nintendo completely snubbed Europe?

Also, SEGA did what Nintendidn't.

>>644542
not him, but some are and some aren't, not all game show games are shovelware, or at least not back then

>>644545
>WWF on N64 is still considered excellent
>San Francisco Rush 2049 is excellent, as well

>he likes turnleft and redneckmandrama

laughinggirls.jpg

>>644548
Maybe they hated load times due to traumatic memories of waiting 35 minutes to start Football Manager from a Spectrum cassette tape.

ITT:
>The N64 doesn't have any good games because it doesn't have any of these games exclusive to the PS1.
>Why the fuck would I play those games when I have all these N64 games?
>Those games aren't good because they're not on CDs.
>Why, exactly?
>No third party support.
>Here are all the third party devs.
>PS1 has more games.
>That's not an argument. The PC has more games than any console on the face of the earth. The N64 sold a shitload of games.
>No good gaems!

>>644545
>And Wipeout 64 is much better than the PS1 game.
you has me right up until then, I'm not a fanboy on either side but Wipeout 64 is a haphazard cut and paste disaster

>>644545
>And Wipeout 64 is much better than the PS1 game.

>>644575
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SJ27_uIHKs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgUrU0m6GLU

You be the judge

>>644557
Not him, but San Fransisco Rush =/= Nascar shit. Hell Daytona for Saturn didn't even play like nascar, because that would mean it would be boring as fuck, much like nascar.

>>644551
>Because Nintendo completely snubbed Europe?
Uh, might I remind you Rareware's Donkey Kong was the #1 best selling game on the SNES. They were more British than Britain itself. In fact, they pretty much head-hunted the best developers from the UK, leaving everyone else with dregs.

>>644569
>you has me right up until then, I'm not a fanboy on either side but Wipeout 64 is a haphazard cut and paste disaster
It has a faster framerate, and split-screen multiplayer. It's got excellent music, as well. What exactly is wrong with it?

>>644581
Rare were one of the few Britdevs to sign with Nintendo during the NES days along with Codemasters. Otherwise they were exactly as >>644542 mentioned. Computer games first, Sega second.

>>644557
I never really liked wrestling and LOVED the N64 WWF game, the wrestler creator was pretty advance for it's time and the game was just a lot of fun

>>644583
My god, those PS1 jiggling textures.
My god, that N64 version is so dark. What the hell did they record it with?

Both versions are good, but the N64 version plays a lot better, IMO.

>>644581
You are British, correct?

Well, why the fuck are British people so obsessed with driving games.. especially really boring ones?

>>644542
If a game is poorly made with an obvious franchise to cash in, that's what I consider shovelware.
If something is well made and enjoyable to play despite having some sort of brand tie in, I wouldn't consider it shovelware.

>>644367
*kicks your teeth in*

>>644581
Conker is really a quintessentially European game (the humor and general game design). Eurodevs have always been known for that kind of thing going back to the 8-bit days.

>>644594
>You are British, correct?
>Well, why the fuck are British people so obsessed with driving games.. especially really boring ones?
Nope, I'm from New Zealand. Look, British devs and US devs have very different tastes in games. Personally, I like British games more than American ones, but I think all countries have something unique to offer. Russia has produced some amazing PC game developers.

>>644594
>Well, why the fuck are British people so obsessed with driving games

You tell me. In 2004, some dev presented Codemasters with a demo they made for a Dizzy reboot on the PS2 but they rejected it because all they care about for the last 15 years are shitty racing games.

>>644602
Also Croatia gave us Serious Sam

>>644598
>Conker is really a quintessentially European game (the humor and general game design).
You mean Conker's Bad Fur Day? Yea. I never understood why some people found it stupid and unfunny. I found it charming. I also found Elvis from Perfect Dark charming. I just think it's a cultural difference which varies person to person.

I'll admit, as an American we suck at doing wacky, larger-than-life games except sometimes point and click adventures. Most of our stuff is Tolkien bullshit or strategy/sim games.

>>644603
>Codemasters with a demo they made for a Dizzy reboot on the PS2 but they rejected it because all they care about for the last 15 years are shitty racing games.
Wait a moment. Codemasters have made\published plenty of non-racing games over the past 10 or so years.

>>644613
>plenty
Okay, so maybe not PLENTY. But a few. Operation Flashpoint, Damnation, Clive Barker's Jericho, I.G.I.-2: Covert Strike, etc.

>>644613
Not him, but when you Google Image search "Codemasters", all you see is cars, cars everywhere

>>644605
Elvis was a kick in the balls because the game sets up a pretty good Blade Runner-ish vibe and then LOL GOOFY ALIEN LEL AMERICAN FLAG VEST

>>644581
You missed the point. I meant that SEGA had way more support in Europe, from title-department (PAL region didn't get a glimpse on Square titles), speed optimizations and barely any region locking (granted SEGA had a bunch of region locked titles but not that many). Also they self-published their hardware. Nintendo took the retard route and Licensed 3rd 4th and 5th Gen consoles to toy dealers.

Nintendo only extablished itself in Europe with the GC. Before that it was Japan and America's thing, and I'm happy we didn't end to be a bunch of fanboys who can't see the light of day in the likes of >>644548

saturn ALL DAY

>>644619
But I think only Americans felt that way. Non-Americans, like me, saw it as a subtle dig at American self-obsession in alien movies. This is Rareware we're talking about. No matter how dark their games got, they stayed quirky.

>>644625
>(PAL region didn't get a glimpse on Square titles)

Euros never liked weeaboo stuff anyway

>>644605
Elvis was fucking hilarious as a concept. I like to think he's rareware's answer to people who bitched about oddjob players in Goldeneye due to that massive fucking head.

>>644625
You missed my point. Rareware were THE British developer. The one who lorded over all the other developers, attracting the best talent. And they worked for Nintendo. That matters.

>>644602
I won't deny that.. Russians are godly when it comes to programming and computers in general

>>644612
Yeah I never understood that either why American game devs have to be serious/tryhard and can't have fun like Euro or Japanese devs

>>642456
>chameleon twist
nigga that game was awesome. well at least the 2nd one was.

>>644639
Oh yeah, Slavshitland was filled with East German-manufactured Sinclair clones before the Berlin Wall fell. Also the only region outside Germany where 32-bit Amigas were relevant.

Pirate copies of Leisure Suit Larry were all over Soviet university PCs in the late 80s

>>644637
The OP is proof that American dev can be just as fun. But they also tend to go where the money is and quirky/fun/smarmy rarely goes over well in numbers that make it worth the trouble.

>>644637
I'm pretty sure it was an american company that made Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, though..

So American game devs do make some good stuff sometimes.

>>644612
I think it's because American culture disdains cuteness and fuzzy animals in favor of macho-man games where you kill elves/ninjas/terrorists/whatever.

>>644629
No no I get that. If there had been that level of satire from the get go, fine. But it seemed like Rare just got bored halfway through and totally started taking a piss when there wasn't really a set up for it.

The weird floating laptop guy was a good dig at the uncanny valley, but Elvis was just too left field.

>>644656
Britbro here. You're exactly right. Consider COD as the quintessential Burgerstan game.

>>644612
LucasArts was REALLY the only American game company to actually think outside the region boundaries and primarily focused on providing QUALITY with no cost-cutting measures (after all, they were self-publishing). As a matter of fact, it always reminds me of early to late Kojima-led KCEJ. It wasn't an American company, it was a GAME company at heart. Always innovating themselves and giving specific attention to art direction. The only other American house that managed to get close was Insomniac Games (in their gold time).

The N64 really suffered from poor marketing. Sony managed to convince the public that Nintendo's console had no decent titles, and the mud stuck. Heaps of stellar games struggled to sell. We must never forget the N64 made a sizable profit.

This is the same situation the PSP faced. It sold 70+ million units. Its games did sell rather well, too. But because the DS sold so much better, people make the mistake of calling the PSP a failure. No, it is not. In fact, it's still doing well. Just because something is niche, doesn't make it any less important, any less a success.

>>644667
I know; LucasArts were one of the few American devs to really have zany games.

>>644673
Shiny, Double Fine
um....

>>644663
Err, right. Sergeant McBiceps saves the world from Al Qaeda with his Freedom Rifle.

>>644537
NES one had really fucking good music. Like, unbelievably good for a board game.

So much so that I associate it with the actual game.

>>644598
Yeh it reminds you of old Dizzy games

>>644630
[citation needed]

I love weeaboo stuff. In fact euros love weeaboo stuff more than Americans because we got hundreds of animes during the 70's, 80's and 90's while Americans were just producing cartoons anyway so they didn't see the issue of not importing animes. They only got them in an ass-backwards way where they censored the fuck out of them and butchered the dialogue anyway. Voltron was the most hilarious result.

Just thinking how you guys survived without fucking Lupin III for all these years is mind-boggling.

>>644705
yeah why is it that here in Italy, the freaking home of the Catholic Church, we could show Sailor Moon's tits with no problem but Americans couldn't handle seeing one pasty-covered nipple in the Super Bowl.

Speaking of ignorance, how many people were aware that Starcraft and Command and Conquer were on the N64? Anyone? The N64 suffered from this a lot. People simply didn't know about all the cool games on the N64.

>>644715
Catholics aren't that uptight. You have to realise that Murka is home to extreme fundie Baptist fanatics who are like 5% different from Al Qaeda.

>>644715
>but Americans couldn't handle seeing one pasty-covered nipple in the Super Bowl.

I know. They still occasionally bring that up.

>>644728
>You have to realise that Murka is home to extreme fundie Baptist fanatics who are like 5% different from Al Qaeda.
That's not very fair. Baptists might be stuffy suit and tie types, but they're not all bad. You need to realise the Japanese have parents groups, too, who complain about anime shows. After the clusterfuck which was Evangelion, a lot of censorship laws were tightened up to protect children.

>>644728
Burgers are actually pretty funny because they're obsessed with sex and HURR MAH JESUS, yet it's completely ok for example, 10 yo girls to wear miniskirts and shirts that say "TOO HOT TO TOUCH" on them.

>>644743
Speaking of Evangelion, the N64 got the only 5th Gen Evangelion game, didn't it? Quite interesting that the cash-in game was designed for the N64. It's a crappy game, but I can see how the N64 hardware might have helped. The game flows more or less seamlessly from cutscenes to gameplay. No load breaks, etc.

>>644723
Watered down ports from the PC

>>644794
It isn't crappy, it is an alright game that mixes up what you do from mission to mission.

>>644794
And Wonder Project J2 was a good demonstration of the N64's 2D capabilities. Pretty neat game, actually. Shame it was never officially localised.

>>644802
I'm a huge Evangelion fan, but come on, it's pretty goddamn bad.

>>644785
Only retarded slut single moms allow their children to wear that shit

>>644802
>It isn't crappy, it is an alright game that mixes up what you do from mission to mission.
Sorry, I didn't mean crappy to come across too harsh. It's actually an interesting game I defend quite often. I meant it was a bit crummy, bit repetitive, or dull. But the way it compressed a 24 episode anime down onto a 32MB cartridge? Amazing. Especially since the devs must have known it wasn't going to sell all that well since very few Japanese folk owned an N64. That sort of developer dedication to making fine games is something I admire.


When I think about it, the N64 had some really cool Japanese games which go unnoticed because they were never released in American-land.

>mfw an Amerifat did nothing important in either world war, but took credit for winning both of them near me

>>644840
It is far from bad. It has proper hit detection, the controls were responsive thus were functional, they had variety with the missions (from combat, to aligning your sights, to getting the right coordinates to trigger another event, button sequence missions, and so on). Also it is interesting seeing what new moves you can do when you get your synch ratio up from grabs to rushing attacks.

Space Station Silicon Valley was another underappreciated N64 game. Developed by DMA Designs, who you all know as the Grand Theft Auto team.

>>644863
Spider-Man 64 was pretty decent, too. I've been downloading a lot of N64 games I missed back in the day, and I'm kinda sad at how obscure some of these gems are.

>>644885
That one was also on the PSX and Dreamcast. Dreamcast got the best version though.

>>644885
And Sin & Punishment doesn't get enough love. It used low poly models so it could spam the screen with enemies without slowdown. Good use of framebuffer effects, too.

>>644921
What's this? The Hybrid Heaven intro has a buff man taking a shower for no real reason?

MUST BE A KONAMI GAME.

>>644945
Jokes aside, Hybrid Heaven was sorta the predecessor of stuff like Final Fantasy XII. It combined realtime movement with a form of turn based combat. It's quite an interesting experimental action\rpg hybrid, and worth playing, IMO.

>>644945
Looks more like a pile of hot dogs.

>>644705

It really affected this country as a whole. I just got back from Tokyo a few weeks ago and it was amazing to see how people embrace the culture of cute over there.

I mean the first time you walk into Akihabara you're like, "wow, there's guys in their 30s buying dolls" and then by the time you leave you're like "what the fuck is wrong with America, they are so uptight."

It shows in American games. We have simulators and FPS where you're some sort of amazing war hero. Nothing cute, fun, or with far less imagination and creativity as opposed to Japan or Europe.

>>644952
It isn't like Final Fantasy XII at all. Often times in FFXII the enemies would still hit me from a bit of a distance with a melee attack, none-the-less because of how battles work doing certain attacks at certain distances will yield different results.

I wonder which is better? Rainbow 6 N64 or Rainbow 6 PS1?

>>644961
>It isn't like Final Fantasy XII at all.
The hybrid real-time turn based system was arguably an inspiration. But it's debatable.

>>644974
It is its own thing. If a game was inspired by it it would be very obvious when you see it.

>>644967

I preferred the N64 version, I thought it was at least a little bit closer to the PC version in terms of the planning and execution.

Here we go. Evolution of the Turok games, folks.

Turok 1.

>>645001
Turok 2.

>>645007
And Turok 3. Which nobody bought. As you can "see", the draw distance is a lot better. Pretty much demolished the claims the N64 needed all that fog.

>>642089
>PS1 and Saturn are more for the serious gamer.
I can't disagree.

>Exclusively play Nintendo consoles
>Have NES, SNES, Game Boy (and Color), N64, all that
>On a whim I ask for a PSX for Christmas instead of Gamecube
>mfw playing a PSX RPG for the first time, or Mega Man Legends 2, or any of the other awesome games I got

I was blown away by it. It really did feel like it was a more serious console and my brand loyalty swayed to Sony until the PS3. Still always bought Nintendo handheld stuff even after the PSP, though.

>The Sega Saturn is the most difficult console to develop for in the generation
>it has third party support

>The N64 is marginally less difficult to develop for
>it has no third party support

>after Sony's 10 year stride with third party support, they create the PS3, the most difficult console to develop for to date, more difficult than the N64 and Saturn combined
>it had no games
>a few years later, all the key third parties started popping up

What the fuck man.

Goldeneye's draw distance on a bad day.

>>645046
Perfect Dark's typical draw distance. Which is basically "forever".

>>645039
>>The N64 is marginally less difficult to develop for
>>it has no third party support
That's simply not true, though. The key difference is that the PS3 was a success in Japan. This means that there are a crapload of third party Japanese titles for it. Then N64 had plenty of high quality 3rd party titles, but Japanese developers focused on the PS1, which had a bigger userbase. This doesn't change the fact the N64 has a lot of games, and pretty much all the major publishers supported it. Smaller library of games was what Nintendo intended all along. To criticise them for it is deeply ironic.

>>645051
Can anyone cite any PS1 game which didn't use pre-rendering which looks as good as Perfect Dark or Bad Fur Day? Because in all my time of searching, I've never found one. Games like Silent Hill are blurry, jiggling, foggy messes which used these problems to enhance horror. The Spyro games are nice looking, but they lack the advanced lighting effects of Bad Fur Day.

>>645070
The point is, Nintendo will forever be fucked out of third party support since the N64. The GameCube had nothing, the Wii had one-off titles that weren't really good, the Wii U has nothing.

But they sure love Nintendo handhelds, though.

>>645051
I notice the sniper up on the rooftop is a low-lod stick-figure, and the characters are medium detail models. But when you get closer, the models are quite high detail. This was an advantage of having 8MB of ram to play with compared to the PS1's 2MB. Lod models.

>>645094
>The point is, Nintendo will forever be fucked out of third party support since the N64.
It's really problematic, though. The Gamecube had heaps of 3rd party support. The Wii has a significant number of 3rd party games. Good games. But they simply don't sell well. I personally blame the market, and the fact the mud slung against Nintendo, that their console only had kiddie games, really stuck.

>>645113
Are those actual N64 textures on their faces? God damn, that looks good.

>>645121
Everyone keeps using the argument that you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. While that always was true, the console still needs games, be it by Nintendo themselves or third parties. Otherwise you just spent $350 on a proprietary Mariobox.

>>645001
>>645007
>>645015
Which one has the most stable framerate?

>>645085
Silent Hill had them cool flashlight physics, which makes up for the game's foggy experience (which was quite smart as you pointed out, since for once a technical limitation is functional to art design), other games that impressed me from a graphical standpoint were MGS1 (if you don't mind the models), Gran Turismo 2, the Wipeout series and even Crash Bandicoot had its highlights (which were more prominent on the later titles as CTR). You already mentioned Spyro (another game in the same style was Ape Escape). There was a 4 player game where you controlled these lego-like characters and I remember those having quite the graphical enhancement, I can't remember the name now.

There are many more titles that push the PS1 hardware to the limits. Of course if you're looking for a serious confrontation, you're small time because the N64 had better hardware to work with.

>>644954
>We have simulators and FPS where you're some sort of amazing war hero. Nothing cute, fun, or with far less imagination and creativity as opposed to Japan or Europe.

You forget the endless Tolkien stuff

>>645148
Basically every Nintendo console after the SNES has been a proprietary Mariobox

>>645187
3, then 1, then 2. At least from what I read.

>>645221
And the NES and SNES only succeeded due to Nintendo's market monopoly. Which raises the question, had Nintendo not had a monopoly, would they have been successful otherwise?

>>645251
Nintendo didn't have a monopoly in the console market during the SNES time period.

>>645251
Nintendo only had a market monopoly in the NES era. That was already broken during the 4th gen days.

>>645251
It's hard to say because the NES never faced serious competition even without monopolistic tactics. Over in Japan they totally dominated because of getting a head start and owning RPGs lock, stock, and barrel.

In the US, they did some sleazy things to lock out competition but there wasn't much there anyway in a market still recovering from the video game crash.

>>645260
They did in Japan, but mostly because RPGs

>>645085
Omega Boost.

>>645187
Apparently Turok 1 runs the fastest, Turok 3 is next best, and Turok 2 is the worst. 3 manages to have the best graphics, though.

mfw a leddit thread of Turok 3 is filled with people bleating about how all the Turok games were foggy.

>>645282
And that is about it. Then it was split in North America and was left behind pretty much everywhere else.

>>645260
>>645268
>>645279
>>645290
So it's safe to assume that the NES was the only console that Nintendo made that was actually half decent. The SNES lived thanks to the NES' success.

>>645279
It's true that NOA wouldn't let devs make games on other consoles, but even if that wasn't true, the Master System was still marketed like shit and there was no competition from American companies because of the implosion in 1983.

>>644557
You have obviously never played RUSH. You may as well be comparing NBA Jam to a sports sim.

>>645296
>The SNES lived thanks to the NES' success

Partially, but also because it dominated RPGs, which in Japan are vital for a console's success. In the US market, definitely a 50/50 split with Sega.

>>644508
I didn't know the British made Super Mario 64

>>645283
I'm looking at this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHkBRmxrZ4s and it doesn't seem to have any complicated backgrounds or lighting. Whenever there is a planet surface, it just seems to be a flat surface. It's certainly a good looking game, but it's not really on the same level as this, IMO.

It's a hard call. Basically, if we're gonna be objective, Omega Boost is a damn good looking game. But it's rather simply lit models dogfighting against a backdrop.

>>645305
>>645296
Off the record, Sega succeeded with the Genesis only because they beat Nintendo to a 16-bit console.

>>645314
>I didn't know the British made Super Mario 64
Rareware's games were the system sellers. They were Nintendo's trump card, and losing them was a serious blow.

Of the top 15 selling N64 games. 6 of them are Rareware titles.

>>645325
Poor Sega:

>SG-1000
Outdated technology can't compete with the Famicom
>SMS
Ruined by shit marketing and Nintendo's monopolistic tactics
>Genesis
Successful since Nintendo had no 16-bit system yet
>Saturn
Ruined by shit marketing and infighting between SOJ and SOA
>Dreamcast
Ruined by shit marketing and terrible timing

>>645338
>SG-1000
I didn't know Sega had a console before the SMS

>>645318
The level of detail on Conker himself is astounding. And the whole scene is a tracking shot, so there's no model swapping. It looks even better in motion, since you've got the dynamic lighting moving across the scene.

I guess that's a key difference between the PS1 and N64. The N64 could do much bettered background textures and prerendered stuff. But the N64 could do much better lighting.

>>645325
Genesis didn't succeed in its motherland, sadly.

Also:

>SNES
>16 bit

>>645349
I was especially impressed by the way his eyes move and the milk in his glass shifts around when he moves his hand. Animation and lighting are something which succeed or fail depending on how they look in motion. And motion was sadly the PS1's weak area.

>>645342
They never sold it in North America, but it was largely the same thing as the Colecovision and its 1970s-vintage chipset was much weaker than the Famicom. SMS can run SG-1000 games, at least Japanese models

>>645371
>>645349
If it looks that good, imagine what they could have done if they had CD storage

>>645375
Have insanely long loading times, and probably pauses in game to access data.

>>645375
>If it looks that good, imagine what they could have done if they had CD storage
Nice attempt to troll, but the graphics only look that good because the game reads off the cartridge in real time. If it was a CD game, it would have featured several load breaks in the middle of the intro. CD storage was a terrible idea until consoles had a means to cache the data effectively. For example, hard drives.

>>645375
For one thing, they wouldn't have such blurry as fuck textures because they could store more graphics data

>>645386
>>645375
Never mind the trolls. One reason Nintendo liked cartridges is because their primary audience of preschool-aged children were too impatient to wait for a game to load. That and they'd drop the discs and smear cupcake icing on them.

>>645369
The Colecovision was one impressive machine. Easily the most advanced of the 2nd generation of consoles. The SG-1000, while similar, is much like the Wii U compared to the PS3. Came out much later than a comparable system and was obsolete as soon as it was released.

Also, supposedly Coleco's teams handled the Sega ports better than Sega themselves did.

>>645342
Funny thing is, it even got out the same day as the Famicom.

>>645349
I know I'm going to regret this, but what are the lighting marvels you speak of in >>645318 and in your latest post, I already stated some PS1 games with dynamic lighting as MGS1 and SH1. And what about the astounding detail on Conker you speak of? Sure, it's pretty cool, but I wouldn't call that astounding, astounding would be having real eyes and not just textures pasted in. What is impressing you in particular? Polycount? Textures? Gouraud shading? Lack of dithering? This last one is fair, since PS1 could process 24bit pictures but couldn't render them in the process. At least not textured polygons. But that Conker model is not something the PS1 couldn't handle.

>>645390
>For one thing, they wouldn't have such blurry as fuck textures because they could store more graphics data
The textures aren't related to the cartridge format. The problem was the N64 had a limit to texture resolution imposed by the 4kb texture cache. So even with a CD, the textures wouldn't have been any different. Actually, they would have been worse because Bad Fur Day uses complicated texture streaming methods to read as many textures off the cartridge as possible instead of using precious ram. Impossible to replicate on a CD-based system.

>>645408
>The Colecovision was one impressive machine. Easily the most advanced of the 2nd generation of consoles

That's highly debatable. Some would say the Atari 5200 was better, but it's like Genesis vs SNES. Both had respective advantages and disadvantages.

>>645412
>The problem was the N64 had a limit to texture resolution imposed by the 4kb texture cache. So even with a CD, the textures wouldn't have been any different
Wow, that's pretty bad. Even CD storage couldn't have rescued an architecture this shitty.

>>645371
>I was especially impressed by the way his eyes move and the milk in his glass shifts around when he moves his hand

You know that are only animation values and nothing really exclusive to the N64 hardware or anything, right? Every guy with a 3D modeling program and a 3D engine mimicking that program could do stuff like that. Aren't you grasping at straws here?

>>645408
>Came out much later than a comparable system and was obsolete as soon as it was released

That and the Atari 7800

>>644557
>He thinks handegg and apehoop are better than LOLTNA and CENAWINSLOL

And I think you might be right and this is coming from a fan of "redneckmandrama." But No Mercy was a great PPV and a great game.