/vr/ - Retro Games

why would anyone play these shit tier games anyways? morrowind is the first one worth the effort to play

Ultima underworld > shit scrolls

>>6407191
UU is shit.

>>6407189
Daggerfall is pretty good if you don't think of it as an Elder Scrolls game and more of a first person roguelike. I mostly like it because tits.

>>6407170
It really isn't

>>6407189
Daggerfall is one of the most ambitious games of its time.

>>6407345
daggerfall is an interesting concept and i’d like to see a modern game use it’s principles but as it stands i find it incredibly boring

>>6407310
You wish todd

>>6407780
>>6407782
>todd being a nerd and awkwardly suggesting to people to buy his game
Checks out. UU is still boring as fuck though.

>>6407170
Unity fan remake when?

>>6407170
Arena is dog shit though, there's jack shit to do outside of the main quest, which means lots of boring pointless grinding in literal mazes for dungeons. Daggerfall at least has some depth to it.
>>6407189
Ah yes, the Morro-baby enters the thread.

>>6407170
Who zaric here?

>>6408601
Don't be an ass just because no one posted about Skyrim or Oblivion yet.
You know Morrowind is the best.

One thing I love doing in arena is just exploring the neverending wilderness outside of towns. it goes on forever and has tons of things to see and do if you keep traveling. I tend to level from 5-12 just clearing dungeons and selling the loot I get from the wilderness dungeons/crypts

>>6407170
Arena has many things over daggerfall, like spells and dungeons are better designed, also I think arenas music is better than daggerfall. Still, daggerfall is a wild ride and as a whole, just beats arena in terms of roleplayability.

>>6408601
>there's jack shit to do outside of the main quest

Arena doesn't have great role-play mechanics, compared to daggerfall, but if you want to be a thief, arena is tits.

>>6407170
>male characters aptly dressed
>sole female is in next to nothing and posted so that ass and tits are accentuated simultaneously
pass

>>6407189
>Only one of two ES games to allow to traverse the entirety of Tamriel.

>>6408812
Kek, ok, faggot

>>6408812
Her name is Jehanna Khel, leader of the Iceblades, an arena team hailing from High Rock. She doesn't wear armor because she's a mage, and doesn't have the proficiency for it. Well, she's something of a special case, as the prerelease screenshot shows her to be a mage using Akaviri weaponry. I made that play-style available in the new class mod.
>>6408601
>there's jack shit to do outside of the main quest
Some people are working on a second quest.

>>6408773
>One thing I love doing in arena is just exploring the neverending wilderness outside of towns.
You might appreciate it more by increasing the view distance. Double the game's normal maximum allows you to see distant buildings much easier. You can increase it further, but performance starts to suffer.

If anyone wants to know about Arena modding btw, I'll be here for a while. I can tell you what's been done, what's in the works--and if you're interested in doing it yourself, some of the methods and tools you might want to look into.

>>6408747
Morrowind is literally Daggerfall for the XBox minus the procedural generation, better combat and 2d graphics, you contrarian faggot. There's tons of stuff that was removed so that it could sell on the casual box, which is hillarious, because you retarded ass faggots constantly like bringing up Oblivion or Skyrim to try and make Morrowind look better then it is. Like dragging along your ugly as fuck autistic gf (whose possibly retarded, no one knows for sure) to a friend get together because all your friends are complete losers who've never even had a girl friend.

>>6408812
>DURRR Sexy girl is too nude
>Also I installed 10000 Skyrim sex mods XD

>>6409117
Shut up you retarded nigger, Morrowind added much more than it cut. More than half the skills in DF are useless and DF has literally nothing memorable because Its all fucking randomgen.

Actual dungeons alone make MW superior to DF, go play fucking Nethack if you dislike actual RPGs so much.

>>6409134
>Morrowind added much more than it cut
Adding a few spells and 3 pointless classes does not equate to "adding much more then was cut". What's even worse, is how absolutely fucking HORRIBLY combat was butchered in Morrowind versus Daggerfall. In Daggerfall it is actually fun and very rewarding. And no, not everything was randomly generated, this is an urban myth.
>m-muh actual dungeons!
Ah, yes. I too enjoy exploring the "dungeon" that is composed of a hallway and maybe a few side rooms. In a game that is one quarter entirely devoted to exploring said areas. Yes the main quest has you go through a few places that aren't like that. However, every single dungeon outside of the main quest is pitifully small.
Also Morrowind completely shat all over any lore established in Daggerfall/Arena and turned the genre from an interesting medieval life type simulator too DUDE LMAO MAGIC MUSHROOMS ORCS ARE PEOPLE TOO BRO LIKE WHOA WHAT IF KHAJITS WERE LIKE ACTUALLY CATS BROOOO which they then needed to pre-emptively lore retcon everything to have to explain why everything got changed.
Daggerfall is an RPG game. Morrowind is an ARPG. I suggest to you that if you don't like CRPG's, that you go back to fucking /v/ where you belong.

>>6409134
>Its all fucking randomgen.
All the main quest dungeons were hand crafted. Same with Arena.

>>6409134
>More than half the skills in DF are useless
Says somebody who never got to the last dungeon in daggerfall

>>6409152
Sorry about your autistic fits, but Armor skills alone make MW superior mechanicaly. So sorry noclip is no longer a spell required since shoddy randomgen labryinthes no longer exist. Please keep your spittle in your mouth when you post your next diatribe tho.

Morrowindfags are truly insufferable. This thread isn't even about Morrowind. Take your Todd Howard productions and go. Just go.

>>6409230
Kek you got BTFOd in another thread huh?

>>6409240
Don't know what you're talking about. I'm here because I saw the Arena art.

>>6409012
Can you tell me what makes Arena unique, even if functionality comes from a mod? What does it offer that I can't find in a later elder scrolls entry?

>>6409213
>autistic fits
>when you are the one that went into a thread specifically about Daggerfall and Arena to post about muh superior magic mushrooms game.
Also I'd pick "shoddy randomgen" labyrinthines over fucking broom closets any day, especially since part of playing Elder Scrolls is too, you know, go spelunking into said locations. Can't really explore a broom closet you know.

MW is gloriously, fiendishly broken on every level. No amount of modding or fan-written content can fix it. The game design decisions that went into it are truly mind boggling
>let's have a system whereby your skills get better by simple practice
>cool! So it will be markedly different from D&D where you gain XP and this arbitrary concept of "levelling up" which makes no real world sense?
>uh, no, we'll still have level ups, driven by extremely illogical background maths that perversely incentivise tedious game activity
>also, every NPC in the game will have the same dialogue

>>6407170
The dungeons of arena are infinitely better than DF. They're spookier, have more variety, and are easier to navigate. I also like all the animated npcs in the towns, like preachers, entertainers, etc... Arena just had a lot more little details in it's cities. If I could play Arena with Daggerfall's character system, it would be heaven.

>>6409413
>what makes Arena unique
>What does it offer that I can't find in a later elder scrolls
It's probably best to think of Arena as more of a D&D clone than an Elder Scrolls game proper. They hadn't quite distinguished themselves or accumulated enough weird lore for the setting to feel distinct. The "learn by doing" ethos hadn't entered the picture yet. There's a THAC0 type armor system. The weaker classes are balanced by leveling up faster. And that's how you know the series really started as somebody's tabletop campaign. It's really only best to compare Arena to Daggerfall, due to their similarities. Daggerfall was more ambitious, but I think Arena was the better game. Dungeons are the main factor. The majority of what you do in the game is dungeon crawling, and Arena's dungeons are flat out better than Daggerfall's, despite being 2D, in a sense. But that made them easier to design. It makes them easier for you to map out and navigate. They just make a lot more sense visually. Some of them actually seem like the places that they're supposed to be. They're not just nonsensical ant tunnels. The main quest is also very straight forward. That works in the game's favor. The cutscenes with the Saturday morning cartoon villain Tharn are perfect, really. As you progress through the game, you really feel compelled to push forward and defeat him. Daggerfall has an interesting interwoven political intrigue plot, but the game is a little too basic to employ it in a memorable way. Whereas Arena gives you that really satisfying conclusion.

>>6410036
>If I could play Arena with Daggerfall's character system, it would be heaven.
https://www.nexusmods.com/tesarena/mods/24
I know it's not as in-depth as custom classes, but I was able to create 18 new classes. 36 options is kind of a lot. I don't think you could shuffle things around much more. But someone could conceivably use what I've learned to create a tool that allows you to make your own.

Daggerfall is shit until you find a really really good dungeon. One that isn't spaghetti vomit but centers around a room that's bigger than most buildings. Morrowind beats it in a lot of catagories, but Daggerfall blows it out of the water when it comes to dungeons.

>>6409893
>skills are tied to attributes
>training strength based skills helps build strength
I don't see the problem in that. And yeah, a lot of the more generic NPCs have little interesting to say, you can say that for many other RPGs, such as Baldur's Gate.

>>6409893
>this arbitrary concept of "levelling up" which makes no real world sense?
Why were you expecting this to be gone?

Niggerfall has the stench of a Euroshit game. It is probably Amiger fans defending this trash.

>>6410221
Except that it was made in Maryland, and isn't on the Amiga.

>>6410221
>ambitious
>unique
>not afraid to show tits
yeah sounds about right, sorry that it's not a platformer based on a movie that's based on a soft drink

>>6410262
You know, the MC Kids games were pretty good. And did you hear the Global Gladiators soundtrack? It's amazing.

>>6410059
>But someone could conceivably use what I've learned to create a tool that allows you to make your own.
Do you have documentation?

>>6410361
Yes.

I just got done with Daggerfall's main quest, and I got to say, there was a lot of bullshit at the very end, especially with the """"puzzles"""". Half the time I wasn't even sure if I was actually doing anything or if the game was glitching out on me. I'm not going to lie, I ended up cheating and using a walk-through. Fuck those bullshit riddles.
I can finally put this game down and let it gather dust until I get another itch to play it.

How do I get around the awful controls of Daggerfall?
Is there a tutorial anywhere?

>>6410432
The controls are completely remappable.

>>6409152
You sound extremely angry, but for all that anger your points don't seem to have any weight. You actually DUDE LMAO'd over it.
Morrowind is the best of the elder scrolls games games. Then Skyrim Requiem, then Daggerfall Unity.
The final dungeon is randomly generated and like all dungeons can generate in a broken unbeatable state. I don't care if the towns are prefabbed.

>>6409893
>you made a new levelling system and it wasn't a copy of one i already liked
Okay.

>>6410539
>The final dungeon is randomly generated
Uh no, it isn't. The one with Sheogorath? No.

>>6409154
Eh, are you positive? I think aspects are hand crafted and then they use random gen to fill in the gaps

>Daggerfall: Best atmosphere and music (Riding a horse through a village at night while it snows is the comfiest shit ever)
>Morrowind: Best Writing, and Worldbuilding
>Oblivion: Best Questlines and Guilds
>Skyrim: Best Combat system
Arena gets props for being the first, but that's it. Redguard had some charm but was poorly executed. Battlespire can fuck off and die.

How do I zoom in the world map?

>>6410776
You don't. You either limit the items showing to one, like dungeons or towns, or hit F and search for a location by typing it in

How do I buy stuff? The only option I see is "Sell", whatever the shop I am in.
Moreover, what should I do, in general?

I don't know what is the main quest, I see gorillions of options when I click the "Tell me about..." option, most of which lead to "I try not to spread rumors".
I don't know what to do with my ingredients (I have a daedra's heart, but what for???).
I have been proposed to join guilds such as "The Fighter's Guild" or "The Temple of Kynareth" (I am a worshipper of Julianos, mind you), and I thought about joining the Dark Brotherhood or the Thief's Guild because I'm so dark, but I cannot find anything.

Keep in mind, if you wanna fuck around in Arena and Daggerfall, the armor uses 2nd edition DND THAC0. tldr the higher the number it shows next to your armor you have on your character, the easier you'll be hit. Actual armor rating is found in the item details, not on the character paperdoll layout

>>6410998
You have to click on the shelves themselves to buy. Silly shit, really, but still

>>6410998
After some time, you should receive a letter from someone saying she wishes to meet on royal business. Follow that letter trail. Eventually you'll talk to the queen in the capital Daggerfall, in the landmass of Daggerfall. Just hit F once inside the landmass and typing daggerfall will pull it right up. 99% of quests are random generation. You know you're on the right path if the queen wants you to check on a woman. Ingrediants are for potion making, but that's heavily limited to certain classes. You'd buy the recipe for it at an alchemical store (only bigger cities like Daggerfall have them). The Dark Brotherhood will give you an invite personally if you slaughter some peasants and manage to get away. I recommend doing this somewhere away from the daggerfall landmass so the main quest isn't stopped by guards slashing at you

What are clothes for?
Is it normal that clothes and armor don't mix well on the inventory screen?

>>6410776
You just right click where you want to zoom
>>6410938
that's gonna be a big yikes from me, dawg.

>>6411419
>Y I K E S

>>6411419
Ah shit, really? Still though, 99% of the time, Find will be faster

>>6410268
>Are
>Are you
>Are you READY!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVbK2TG1Rys

>>6407345
Daggerfall is too generated and not enough hand crafted

>>6411668
I agree. I mostly use it for places that I go to very frequently and have memorized the location of.

>>6410117
The problem people have with morrowind's leveling system has to do with attribute bonuses. To get the optimum attribute advancement you need to get 10 skill-ups corresponding to that attribute so unless you want to permanently fuck your progression you'll be leveling up skills you didn't select in character creation.
Admittedly, this can feel like busywork at times and really slows things down. But I've played MW with mods that "fixed" this progression system and you just scale so hard with power in such a quick timeframe that the game becomes a joke a dozen hours or so into a playthrough. Clearly it was balanced around either very slow or completely unoptimized advancement.

>>6412057
>To get the optimum attribute advancement
Only if you're powergaming. You don't strictly need some stats depending on what kind of class (or 'class') you're playing.

>>6412060
Yeah of course not, but it's enough to nag a seemingly large amount of people considering the popularity of stuff like MADD Leveler. Something like that is maybe more what >>6409893
was referring to with regards to a more natural progression system. XP and leveling up are tabletop concepts because you need math to be playing a game and not just playing pretend. With the skill system Morrowind has, proficiency increasing with time spent using that skill, you don't really need the attributes or the leveling process at all. But Morrowind keeps those conventions around and creates a system where you can level up wastefully. Which is definitely a weird design choice.
I think Bethesda agreed given that they removed attributes in Skyrim and attempted to replace it with the less abstract perk system.

>>6412057
I don't think Morrowind is a game you're supposed to play perfectly. At least Athletics and Acrobatics make good skill multipliers because running and jumping is something you just do all the time.

>>6411317
>What are clothes for?
For wearing, silly.
>Is it normal that clothes and armor don't mix well on the inventory screen?
All armor goes over clothing, unless their boots. Cloaks and robes go over armor.

>>6412205
so it's cosmetics for roleplaying that I only see when I look at my inventory, and it looks like shit if I am my armor on, but if I remove my armor I have to think about putting it again in case of a fight.
Is that so?

>>6412487
yes

>>6412167
>I don't think Morrowind is a game you're supposed to play perfectly.
Not supposed to maybe, and you don't need to either, but you can if you want to put in the effort.

*blocks your path*

>>6410608
>Daggerfall: Best atmosphere and music (Riding a horse through a village at night while it snows is the comfiest shit ever)
Post a gif

The source code of this game needs a leak.

>>6408812
Go swallow a shotgun blast faggot.

>>6411739
>Daggerfall is too generated and not enough hand crafted

I actually like that about it, and I wish RPG devs had pursued the idea further. Look at what Dwarf Fortress is capable of generating, and consider that it is the work of literally 2 people.

Imagine the quest generators that could be made today if people just tried.

>>6409012
I'm interested.
I really love Arena. I've always liked it more than Daggerfall. The dungeons are actually navigable. I didn't know that there was an effort to mod or update it. Tell me more.
Also, what is the ideal original hardware to play it on? Can it be modded on original hardware or do the mods require emulation/DOSbox or an updated engine?

>>6408812
Faggots like you are the reason I hate every game made after 2004.

I've invested more hours into arena and daggerfall than I should have over the years. Each one for different reasons. Arena for the easy to navigate dungeons and unlimited random wilderness and daggerfall for the massive world to explore and adventure a life in howover I please within the games limits. Quality stuff

>>6412487
I mean, I just wear what I want and deal with it. I've not found much of a use for full armor if you don't want it, you're gonna die really easy to most things anyway if they get better rolls.

>>6413962
get that speed up to about 75 anon so you swing your weapon alot quicker thus more hits land overall. in fact speed is probably one of the most important stats to raise early on. By lvl 6 I have it around 75-85 range

>>6413231
I'll get back to ya

Daggerfall is still better but I did play through Arena all the way for the first time recently and it was p fun. Can't really see myself replaying it until OpenTESArena comes along at the very least but it was enjoyable playing a mana battery sorcerer and buffing my resistances and cheesing everything super hard. Daggerfall is just way more fun in general and has a lot more roleplaying potential. I don't hate Arena though it is pretty much unplayable without the remapped controls mod, whereas even vanilla Daggerfall can produce a modern control scheme just with the in-game options.

>>6407565
Agreed. It's fun for a couple dungeons but it gets really tedious really quick. DFU with the smaller dungeons mod/setting actually made the game a lot more enjoyable for me but it's still kind of hollow. The game doesn't really have anything other than combat and dungeon crawling. The overworld doesn't really have a purpose.

I want to see someone take the ideas behind Daggerfall and build a simulated fantasy world with them. Some dorffort level of autism in procgen could probably do it.

>>6410539
>The final dungeon is randomly generated and like all dungeons can generate in a broken unbeatable state
Daggerfall has multiple handcrafted dungeons. Some cities like Daggerfall itself have some handcrafted parts to them. Though I will admit most cities are generic garbage and most dungeons are just a mess.

>You sound extremely angry
If anything you sound more angry than the anon you're replying to as you're repeating the same blatantly untrue shit because you ran out of things to say.

>>6410432
Check out Daggerfall Unity if you haven't already. It has all the settings to make your experience as close to the original as you want. Including the graphics side of things.

>>6407780
>>6407782
HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>6415397
>Some cities like Daggerfall itself have some handcrafted parts to them
ALL cities have hand crafted parts to them. Cities are made up of "chunks" that are all hand made, which the engine then places together to form larger chunks. Dungeons themselves too have prefabs made for them, the same way in every other Elder Scrolls game after Daggerfall, but they're a lot smaller then the city chunks.

>>6415397
>you sound angry
Not compared to the guy he was responding to. He's wrong, but not angry.

>>6407189
true statement
>>6407191
true statement

the rest of the thread is just "Buuuut its so BIIIG senpai~" appologists
Ambition does not mean its good. and influential does also not mean the core product has any value as of today. the first guy to eat his own excrement and die from it was surely influental to all the other ooga boogas to not do so but is not a person i would wanna hang around with

>>6415597
If you take that route then 99% of games that do procedurally generated levels have hand crafted levels. The hand crafted chunks in dungeons and cities aren't really comparable to a fully hand crafted dungeon.

>>6413270
I can't speak for everyone, but all the mods I created for Arena work on original hardware. The increased view distance mod might be sketchy, depending on what you're using, but the rest have no performance impact. Just check the Nexus page and sort by most recent.

Some of the stuff available:
--alternate start (nice for skipping the Imperial Dungeons)
--new classes, as I mentioned
--balance mod that impacts magic item and potion prices
--a divine intervention like mod, made by a friend of mine

Holy balls Arena was hard to get to run nicely on DOS box, and I'm half positive that the speed the game is running at is twice as fast as it should be. It's nice being able to play it at it's highest detail level and not slow to a crawl though.

>>6417298
Thing about DOSBox is Auto cycles is almost always shit. Sometimes it even sets it to max, which is just pure fucktown. To anyone who has trouble with DOSBox running fast/slow, do the following:

Look up the box art for the game (pic related) and find the CPU/CPU speed recommended.
After, find that speed processor at https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Performance in the Emulated CPU equivalency section. In this case no math is needed, as the 386 33 MHz is listed in the Emulated CPU table.

Change cputype to (X, 386 in the example)
Copy the cycles, in this case 7800, and make sure the dos config for the game you're working on has fixed (Y, or
7800 in the example).
Save the config file and the game should run the speed it was meant to originally

>Daggerfall

>>6417502
>7800
Game will run like dog poo if you use that amount and set detail level to the highest amount.
Your only options is to halve or even quarter the detail level and have the game speed be the way the devs intended, or crank the cycles up and get the max detail level (but have the game running at around x2 the speed the devs intended).
Me personally, I prefer the latter given the two choices, so I set cycles to fixed 50000 limit 60000.

>>6417710
True, it can for Daggerfall especially which is a finicky bitch. Best advice I have is to go to a large, crowded tavern and look around in circles. Raise the cycles until the game runs smoothly and set that as the main fixed point and don't touch it anymore.

Not trying to harp on it, but fucking with cycles or having high cycles, at least in Daggerfall idk about Arena, can do everything from making your horse neigh endlessly (it counts cycles to make the noise and it's absolute cancer when not fixed properly), making your run and walk speed much slower than it should be, and literally spawning shit like liches for you at level four (Fuck knows why this happens. Cycles shouldn't affect that at all). Saves yourself some headache

>>6417502
>that art
oof

>>6417753
You think that's bad, here's Khajits in Arena. Neat beast shit didn't happen till Daggerfall

>>6417763
Argonians are bland but they tried

>>6417763
>You think that's bad, here's Khajits in Arena.
They look fine to me.

Both Daggerfall and Morrowind are good but Flawed games on their own way. daggerfall was insanely big while morrowind felt more tight, both have bugs that "just works", and both were inspired by Darklands.

>>6417773
The Arbuckle Clan's deep pan noodle dishes never stood a fucking chance.

>>6417789
My absolute biggest fucking problem with Daggerfall is I feel zero connection to 95% of what I do. I know it's all random generation and algorithms. There's no heart to it. The actual story line stuff, I enjoy quite a bit.

Also the atmosphere and music is top fucking notch. Personal favorite comes on at night while walking into a new, quiet village

>>6417763
>>6417768
I like these versions of khajits and argonians and dont care much for the cat and lizard furry shit they are now. but for the khajits its just one of many of their kind... some more catlike than others. as for the lizards meh dont care for that furry whatever its called shit either. But I admit it does make the races more unique and less same as others but with masks on. whatever

>>6407189
Daggerfall is fucking great, even moreso with all the bugfixes and Daggerfall Unity.

>>6414316
You never delivered.

>>6418423
I'll be honest, I thought the fucking thread would have died and saved me the trouble, but I forgot it's /vr/, the slowest board on the fucking site lol. I tried googling gifs to no avail, I'll have to look into it