/vr/ - Retro Games

I know /vr/ talks about lost levels being shit every day but seriously fuck lost levels.

Imagine if Nintendo still made hard games

In Secret of Mana, there was this town that you could never visit.

>>6390005
Playing through Breath of Fire 2 right now, and off the top of my head:

1. Just like Breath of Fire 1, there are room openings that lead to you falling out of the dungeon, instead of another room. But they kicked it up a notch, because this exit is in the room right before the tower boss. Which is great if you just killed the boss and want a quick exit, horrible if you're exploring because you have to go through the entire tower again.

2. There's a random statue in this tower that asks "would you like to exit?". Maybe this is a good choice if you're near death, and don't want to game over and lose half your money. However, after it warps you out of the tower, it says "by the way I took some of your money, hahaha...". You got the money loss on death penalty anyway, except now there's a chance you could actually die trying to make it back to the save/rest area. And lose half your money again. Also, this is 2 rooms before the random exit I mentioned in 1. that lets you leave the tower for free.

3. Earlier in the game, in a room with a chest containing 1000 coins, one of the characters forces you to give him all your money so he can buy some antidotes. If you knew about this going in, you stashed your existing money into storage and triggered the story event before opening the chest. But if you're a casual player, you just got screwed out of like 1200-1300 coins, most likely.

>>6390015
Didnt play metroid, what is this about

>>6390073
If it's like Super Metroid, then that is a false floor right in front of the item.

>>6390005
Git gud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SShgjdoIalU

>>6390065
Reminds me of one of the Final Fantasies, where some guy asks for a tent and if you say yes, he takes all the tents in your inventory.

The infamous HaHaHa room from Dirty Harry. If you enter there is no way out, you must reset the game and start all over.

>>6390153
Funny enough, that's probably one of the least dick moves that game pulls. It's during the beginning of the game when you realize you need to make a map, and you'll definitely mark that room as being a death-trap. All the instant death bullshit near the end is far worse.

>>6390167
Nearly half of B.O.B. is just like this, except the pits are so deep you have no choice but to die and lose all your stockpiled items and weapons.

My personal mention is the last level of Solar Jetman. The game is a 2D physics sim on the NES, but the very last level switches over to standard shmup controls. The entire game long you can bounce off of walls and take damage. In the final level, tapping a wall is instant death. You start the autoscrolling section with a wall right in front of you. Pressing right to turn yourself in another direction like usual means you run right into a wall and die. The level prior to the last level(the last place a password will take you) takes speedrunners 20 minutes to do, and will probably take your average gamer far longer. And if you don't fuck up and kill yourself instantly, Rare put pic related in there to fuck you. Remember, you have one life and one tap is death. The ending wasn't worth it either.

>>6390048
How about getting 4 ham fisted fetch quests in a row from the 'sage'

>>6390005
The Alf game has a book you can buy that automatically takes you back to the title screen, essentially resetting the game.

>>6390021
Dude I wish. Breath of the Wild would have been a lot more fun if it was harder. The combat in it is pretty fun actually it's just that it doesn't give you enough opportunity to fully take advantage of what you can do.

>>6390005
At least they provided a death pit.

>>6390273
For this one. Later warp zone traps offer no way out, though you can still just let the timer hit zero and kill you to avoid the warp.

there are many sections in sonic 1 that are set up to guarantee an instakill if you hit a spike, since there's another one in sonic's recoil trajectory deliberately placed to kill you. it's an intended mechanic, but that spike behavior is the one thing holding sonic 1 from being my favorite.

>>6390229
They released a hard mode on DLC I think.

Wizardry 4.

>>6390294

It just adds another tier of enemy. By that point you already have top level armor and health and whatnot, so beating those guys isn't substantively different. The hardest part of BotW is finding good weapons in the early game.

>>6390294
not him but I don't think the master mode changes were particularly great

for me a few of the rooms in trial of the sword were where I wanted the difficulty to be overall but if course it's hard to keep that up with the way progression works

>>6390316
BotW literally has non-existent progression.

>>6390323
how do you figure? is it because you can find everything good when you jump off the plateau?

>>6390005
The game doesn't spell out that anything further is needed to beat the game, so if you missed the Magnet Beam, you're fucked at pic related. Happened to me once as a kid and it was infuriating.

>>6390027
for those who don't know, the ability to open chests during battle was removed when Shining Force 2 was localized, leaving these inaccessible wooden husks behind

>>6390280
>Later warp zone traps offer no way out
If there's a pipe near the wall on the coming in side you can wall-jump out.

>>6390346

Why would you remove such a feature in the first place?

>>6390289
Later versions fix it so you get proper mercy invincibility after the first poke, so I doubt it was intentional.

>>6390334
Yes. You can pick up endgame weapons/gear the second you leave the tutorial area, if you know where to go. It's garbage.

>>6390348
No Anon. There is no wall jump. There is no scrolling backwards.

>>6390346
>localizations which mess with gamecode
hah

>>6390358
>There is no wall jump
What are you talking about, of course there is.

>>6390134
This really needs some context
In Famicom FF2 you'll commonly come across 3-4 identical doors next to each other in dungeons
One of the doors leads to the next part of the dungeon, all the others dump you in the middle of an empty room that has a 2-3 step encounter rate
Fun!

>>6390380
yu meak mistake, yu die. rarara.

>>6390380
Thanks for giving me more reasons to never touch that shitpile.

>>6390128
The levels in that game are so memorable
Best Doom

>>6390354
SF2's text bank was more than sufficient for the JP version, but the US version was pushing a lot of boundaries in the code and text followed strict rules for its compression. Not only do you miss that item but you also miss the powerful Light of Hope which restores MP.

>>6390356
It actually was intentional. Spikes had a specific routine exclusive to them that would ignore Sonic's mercy invincibility. Regardless it was eventually removed in much later editions of the game.

>>6390380

>>6390374
The screen won't scroll backwards once you enter the warp area

>>6390438
There's no way it was intentional. If they intended it to just be an instakill, they would've used a bottomless pit.

>>6390374
Where do you think you're going to clip away to?

>>6390456
Spikes aren't only found in bottomless pits, Anon.

>>6390479
He is saying if they wanted the spikes to be instakill they would just use a pit instead

That time Rare hid a bonus room inside of another bonus room in Oil Drum Alley.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqgqj6ZQRJw

>>6390462
To Zombocom. Where anything is possible. Anything at all.

>>6390005
>that pit
>game literally telling you to kys

Ninja Gaiden (NES)/Act 6

>>6390581
Someone had to say it.

>>6390670
I’m surprised it took this long really.

>>6390145
Isn't there a FF game where you can get an item that make you immune to X but you literally can only get item after dealing with all of the enemies that does X already making the item worthless for the rest of the game?

>>6390725
I am a full-blown FF autist, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>6390229
>>6390294
>>6390309
>>6390316
>>6390323
>>6390334
>>6390357
>RETRO GAMES? LOL LET'S TALK ABOUT MODERN BASEDTENDO INSTEAD

>>6390160
How is this a dick move? You just match the numbers on the left to the ones in the middle.

>>6390736
Might been a spinoff title to be fair. Like the game was well known for having horrible game design. That was just a prime example for it. Pretty sure it was related to the FF series though.

>>6390357
I mean, that's true in a lot of open world games, older ones at least. In Fallout 2, you can get Mk2 powerarmor immediately after you leave the starting area. In Morrowind, you can get a nearly full suit of glass armor in the first few hours if you know what you're doing.

>>6390754
And that's why open world is inherently garbage. It only appeals to normalfags. The whole point of a video game isn't to pretend it's real life and you can go anywhere and do anything. There needs to be restrictions to foster challenge.

>>6390342
Never thought of it as a dick move, but it's definitely a poor design choice to make it required.

>>6390765
t. Has never heard what Gothic 1 or Gothic 2 are

>>6390774
Same thing with the boobeam trap in 2. Out of ammo, goy? Completely restart.

They learned their lesson after that, at least.

>>6390742
rent free

>>6390779
>western
>PC
Yeah, that's why. The only good vidya are made by the Japanese for home consoles. Deus Ex is the one exception.

>>6390765
I agree to a point but you gotta remember those games were meant to be roleplaying games. People too used to the idea of RPG = leveling up game that you need to mix-man that they honestly need to be reminded what role playing is. You act out as a character. Morrowind let you complete the main game's quest within 30 mins but most people beside speedrunners most likely won't even touch the main quest until many hours in. Open World isn't inherently bad, it only bad for progression which I will agree with you on but progression isn't the only way to make a game fun. Sadly the idea of role playing and staying in character kinda died off when the gamers of the world want to be spoonfed everything by the devs. There is a reason why old RPGs are still being sold to this day. It is a market that only exist between a few select games. Not sure how good Outer Worlds is but it is the only recent RPG game that comes to mind where you can actually roleplay.

>>6390805
>Not sure how good Outer Worlds is but it is the only recent RPG game that comes to mind where you can actually roleplay.
Obvious fucking shill. I spit in your face.

>>6390812
This is /vr/, try /v/

>>6390742
Thread had moved past it but thanks for bringing attention back to those posts.

>>6390817
Apparently you shill here also.

>>6390819
Kill yourself. You do not belong here.

>>6390785
Terrible shortsighted post.

>>6390812
>shill
No, he just fell for the meme of "CRPGs are the only true RPGs" and "CRPGs are Fallout clones and everything else is heresy". If given to design a game he'd blindly copypaste tabletop mechanics without thinking about how those work in a videogame as opposed to board game with real people where you cannot reload a save. In other words he's the type of person who'd call Arcanum a good game in spite of it being a fucked up mess

>>6390824
Deflecting. You literally caused that second tangent to happen.

>>6390447
>Marsh Cave
I still remember my first time making it here as a kid. It was a major spike in difficulty, not just because of its sheer size but also the status-anomaly inflicting enemies. I was naive enough to try to tackle the whole thing in one go and got my ass kicked. Of course, it still doesn't hold a candle to the bullshit in Ice Cave: damage tiles, instant death attacks before any resistance is available, and this fucker at the end (pic related)

>>6390824

Fag.

>>6390845
>>6390854
Go back. You are human scum.

>>6390842
>yikes
Go back, you fucking moron.

>>6390865
>>6390863
>>6390824
>>6390742

The epitome of /v/.

>>6390868
You're a jew.

>>6390725

I know the reverse of this in FF7 where you can get an item that makes you absorb water damage, and Jenova only deals water damage in one of the fights so you can basically become invulnerable for that fight.

Woe be to the janny who has to clean up this mess of a thread. Maybe the NOT RETRO police is in the right after all

>>6390289
>one thing holding sonic 1 from being my favorite.

Not Labyrinth Zone?

>>6390882
Any board targeted by commies will inevitably become this. You can't blame anyone other than commies.

>>6390005
In MM2 there's a Wily Stage boss that can be damaged with only one weapon, and there's walls that you also must destroy with it. If you run out of ammo for that weapon you can't beat the boss. In that case you must restart the whole level.
GOOD DESIGN

>>6390893
I mean, there's checkpoints
You just need to beat two screens to get back to the boss, and a little grinding to get your weapon energy back.
It's stupid and it sucks, but it's not the end of the world if you fail. Especially because the doors stay destroyed.

>>6390920
You obviously never played the game. If you die at a boss, you respawn immediately before it. You don't get a chance to grind enemies for ammo. That's the reason everyone shits on it.

>>6390923
I recall grinding something to get my weapon energy back.
I never beat it in 1 go as a kid.

>>6390929
No, you're just a stupid secondary faggot who has no idea what he's talking about.

>>6390931
>being this much of a niggerfaggot

>>6390938
>thinks saying 'nigger' and 'faggot' makes him a reputable anon
Kill yourself, you stupid fucking 13 year old.

>>6390923
>>6390931
You're wrong and you belong on /v/. If destroy a crash bomb barrier, it stays destroyed and then you have to farm in the hallway before the boss. You DO get a chance to grind for ammo. I'm not defending this boss. I'm just saying you're wrong and that you're an asshole.

>>6390824
>Kill yourself. You do not belong here

>>6390961
No, you don't get a chance, you fucking retard. If you die at a Mega Man boss, you respawn in the 'hallway' before them. I can't believe I'm asserting reality to you like some sort of alien that just landed on Earth.

>>6390931
imagine being so mentally underage at 25+ that someone saying something wrong causes you to sperg out and shit post like its >>>/v/ where you belong with the other underage and/or mentally underage people

>>6390974
You're a jew, and you will be crushed.

>>6390968
Sit tight, about to create a webm to see who's wrong

>>6390946
> telling people to kill themselves and calling them 13 is now a sign of a reputable anon
The leddit army salutes you for your internet heroics.

>>6390983
Please do so, you eager idiot.

>>6390968
You absolute brainlet, you respawn in a hallway before the bossfight. There's a ladder to your left that lets you go back to grind for ammo. Get the fuck out of here.

>>6390998
Make the webm and prove it, then.

Furthest I've ever went to win an internet argument.

>>6390990
https://youtu.be/jcfqFA6pNPw?t=2417
There you go. Now fuck off and never come back.

>>6391003
That's literally not what happens.

>>6391006
Conveniently, that video doesn't show him dying to the boss and returning to the spawn point.

>>6391009
>>6391014
Games up, dude
You definitely did real good with the bait. You successfully derailed the thread.
Just know when to cut your losses.

Dying in the purple room puts you back to the midway point of the stage, this is common knowledge.

>>6391019
You all got #Trolled Epic Style!

this jump

>>6391019
You proved nothing. Your JewTube conveniently doesn't show him dying.

>>6390195
>B.O.B.

It gave you FOUR gadgets to avoid fall damage.

>>6391014
It's timestamped to the moment where he dies and respawns, what the fuck are you on?

Fucking LMAO, I just made an admin mad for disproving him. What kind of faggot adminds we got here?

>>6391102
You think I'm an admin? I'm honored.

>>6391102
Also, you posted from your mobile, so you're fucking retarded. That's not how timestamps work, zoom zoom.

>>6390380
The hate for these rooms is undeserved. As long as you just go straight for the door (it's clear there's nothing else to do here), you usually won't even encounter any enemies. I didn't even realize the rate was higher until I saw people talking about it.

>>6391102
I had that happent to me cuz I called a tripfag out for being an attention whoring virgin.

And surprised I havent seen bloody malth mentioned from ninja gaiden one and stage 5-1. that stage and fight pissed off tons of people back in the day. especially if you lost on him and would get sent all the way back.

>>6391114
It also happened to everyone else, you stupid faggot. The jannies don't even know what they're doing here.

>>6391053
there's this really mean jump in castlevania iii onto a seesaw platform that you have to be almost past the edge to make, don't remember which stage though

>my post deleted
Glad to see the stupid fucking jannies know when they're wrong.

Delete this post.

>>6390082
Yup.

>>6390005
To be fair, why not punish a cheater seeking shortcuts at the top of the stage?

>>6390005

This room is impossible if you actually try to do it.
The spikes kill you if you move into them. But if you let go of the controls and float up into them you bump harmlessly against them and you can just drift through the area.

>>6390437
Yeah fuck the gng series. They're really fun but in my headcanon you beat them at the end of the first loop, ain't nobody got time to do that shit a second time with a specific crappy weapon.

>>6390342
I never completed the game because of this. It's not like I could just look it up online, and I wasn't invested enough to keep trying.

>>6391572
At least the Mega Drive version gave you infinite continues, I was able to beat the 1st and 2nd loop in about 3 hours.

Granted I was using a controller with a plus d-pad but it wasn't as bad as it could've been.

>>6391053
this stage

>>6391003
>>6391006
You can kill the Boobeam trap with 6 Crash Bombs and still have enough ammo left over for two more shots. You don't even have to die.

>>6390342
I think it would have been better if the magnet beam was required to enter wily's castle in the first place

>>6391581
I thought the game was broken because it was a cart, rented no less. It was always a rental for me, and I'd just beat the levels I could beat and I think I could beat them all except for Wily because I got stopped there and I called it "good."

>>6391639
>I think it would have been better if the magnet beam was required to enter wily's castle in the first place
It would be nice if Nintendo game people the option of getting a fixed version that incorporates your idea along with the original flawed version.

>>6391650
*gave people

>>6391572
>ain't nobody got time to do that shit a second time with a specific crappy weapon
You don't need to use that weapon during the second loop, just the end guy, but the trick is getting the weapon again before that level comes up or luckily on that last level and pray to God that the RNG doesn't fuck you over.

>>6391557
>that secret treasure of the Pyramid
>which silently ramps up the already high encounter rate to insane levels as long as you carry it
Just fucking evil.

>>6390021
Imagine if anyone still made hard games

>>6390134
It's not even that bad. Two steps and you're out of there

>>6390873
That happens a lot in 7

>>6390496
based

>>6390750
Only thing I can think of is the Funny Slayer in SO2, but that remains useful

>>6390167
That's just ineptitude, not dickery. It's what happens when you make a game for a console then port it to a small screen handheld. None of that shit in the original version.

>>6391546
The real difficulty here if you use that trick is the Master System D-pad. I mean, you still need to hold right or left, and good luck doing that without accidentally inputting a fatal up or down.

That missable chest at the beginning of SMRPG. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to get it later if you can get one of the toads close enough to the doorway to make the jump, they're blocking you from doing it explicitly. To be dicks.

>>6391725
If we're talking modern devs being dicks, then Fear & Hunger has an untrustworthy merchant that will sell you healing items that poison you. It was obvious to me so I didn't do it until a run where I still had an antidote to spare, and I only bought one just in case, so not a big deal, but other players seem to fall for it even after they learn exactly how brutal the game world is. There's also the first bed (save station) in the game that you only get one free save before the game implies (if not outright tells you) that it would be unsafe to sleep there. When you do, a crow man will very likely attack you (you get a coin flip), and it's brutally difficult to defeat without losing party members, limbs, or your eyes. The next bed is far enough away that you might be tempted to sleep there again if you're doing well, but it's so very likely to end your run. So it's a dick move even after the first time. I love them both though, I wouldn't change the game at all. The game isn't hard in the traditional sense though, it relies primarily on your ability to make decisions based on limited information and your ability to weigh risks.

>>6390065
I would probably ragequit, not gonna lie.

>>6390167
Yeah, it's ok particularly dickish when the games that do this don't have a way to look up or down. That is to say, almost all of them.

>>6391816
>That missable chest at the beginning of SMRPG. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to get it later if you can get one of the toads close enough to the doorway to make the jump, they're blocking you from doing it explicitly. To be dicks.
It's literally just one frog coin. Completely not worth crying about.

>>6391725
Try playing games not by EA or Ubisoft.

>>6391070
Fall damage didn't matter if you fell in to get the item and found you couldn't get back out before the death beam wiped you.

This shit. Bump into a grave? Monster. Open a pot lid? Monster. Look at the fucking stars? Monster. Run into the shadowman? You're fucked.

"Hey dad, this game we rented from Blockbuster sucks."

>>6392325
Forgot pic

>>6392328
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnE9XEC5mWw
but Drakkhen loves you

The final level of Skullmonkeys is actually the last boss because of how fucking brutal it is. For an already difficult Adventure Island/Rayman level platformer, the final level is bullshit all it's own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azmbwRemc04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPoit_51ac4

>>6392328
>>6392334
I rented this on SNES as a kid but never got very far. I have a vivid memory of being sick from school, playing this all day. I would start new games and quickly having my entire party wiped out, rinse and repeat. I was freaked out by the music and the sounds and erratic movements of the enemies. I had a fever dream about it that night and I am still honestly kind of freaked out by this game.

>>6390725
I'm gonna ask Reddit and see if they know it.
>>6391816
If I wasn't using savestates I probably would've quit a while ago. Not just that, but NSO has a rewind feature that means you don't have to save every room. Just revert if something bad happens.

>>6391672
Wasn't the last level literally unwinnable?

>>6391707
Not only that, you also can't throw it away, you get cursed. I think the only solution was to wait until the curse expires or something like that.

>>6391770
Game Gear version is the original, SMS was the port

>>6390534
My nigger

>>6392402
Yes
But it's obviously a glitch.
There is no model for the final battler
All buttons do nothing, except square which damages you.
If you cheat and force a win, the game freezes.

>>6390725
>>6390736
I think he may be talking about the Fire and Ice armor in FF1.

IIRC you find the fire armor in the volcano AFTER you've done to the ice cavern bit, meaning that the resistance to cold is pretty much useless, and if you were to do them the other way around you'd find the Ice armor in the ice cavern but it'd be useless since you've already done the volcano dungeon.

imagine doing this blind

>>6392321
What death beam?

>>6390785
t. puts tape on his eyelids to look Japanese

>>6391725
Look past AAA releases.

>>6391727
>It's not even that bad.
yeah, once
but every single dungeon has a couple of them

>>6390027
... and chest at the bottom-right corner at the second battle after arriving to Grans again.

>>6390617
I could add, Ninja Gaiden 3 (NES), Act 7.
TIME LIMIT!

>>6392342
I was pissed when I got this because it actively goes against what the game is teaching you. Even then I really don't have a choice and will keep trying to find hidden passageways except now I know there's a chance I could lose a bunch of money.

>>6392428

You're all forgetting the worst part of all - the treasure is in a "no magic zone", so you can't just Zoom out of the dungeon.

>walk through piles of mummies
>no fireballs, no heals

The treasure itself was good for grinding xp and gold actually. You could vault it when you didn't want it. Every DQ game has a "grind helper" from the Silver Harp in 1 to the Whistle skill in recent games.

>>6391725
Coping nintendo baby

>>6392875
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

this entire port, they should have left Bare Knuckle 3 alone except for the translations

>>6393067
What, you got jumped? I knew it was a mimic from the moment I saw it.

>>6392326
I was beyond fucking lucky that I still had that damn letter since I often lost most of the paper docs that came with the games...but yeah back then if you didn’t have it you might as well just throw the game away given no internet or other easy ways to search for the code!

>>6392356
If we're gonna count this then I always found the laughter in Punch-Out pretty cruel. When you're just trying to get the hang of Soda Popinski and he's laughing at every knockdown it can feel pretty shitty.

>>6391725
Imagine having never heard of Dark Souls.
Imagine having hid from it and it's wake for a whole decade.
Looks like it would suck.

>>6393316

I rented StarTropics, and brute forced the code like an autist. They say video games ruin kids' attention spans but I sat for FUCKING HOURS writing 000-999 on a piece of paper and crossing them off.

When I actually typed 747 and the robot said A DIFFERENT THING, my brain exploded with so many endorphins that I still cannot produce any to this day.

Memmeries...

>>6393328

>Vodka Drunkinski

FTFY

I haven't completed the game to this day.

I would love to be proven wrong because I genuinely like the rest of Rad Gravity but correctly progressing out of this room is bullshit. You have to use your hover platform item, which spends the same energy that works as your health, and know to jump at the right wall that you can not reach high enough on by jumping normally.

>>6391125
The pirate ship.

>>6393024
The pyramid itself was a fucking nightmare, those lucky bags paralyzing you all the time, all those floor traps that lead you to the underground dungeon.
Yeah the treasure isn't useless, but it surprises you by not letting you to unequip it at first. It's still great though, I mean, you're raiding a pyramid and stealing a treasure, of course you'll get cursed. I just thought it was necessary to progress in the game, but it's optional.

>>6393061
>if you make fun of the modern industry's sorry state, then you are a nintendo fan
Nice console war logic, /v/.

>>6391587
doesnt get any more ludo than this

>>6391634
Is this the normal path or the some hidden shit?

>>6390561
It's like it was designed by someone who most parents wouldn't allow near their kids.

>>6392573
You missed the pits with these health draining cunts? Did you play B.O.B.?

>>6391112
What lol?
You always encounter an enemy trying to leave in these rooms.
I've always presumed an encounter is mandatory in each room upon the first or second step.

>>6393345
Demon/Dark Souls was meant to replicate what it felt like being a Japanese kid in the 80s playing untranslated copies of Ultima 3 and King's Quest: nigh-impossible to decipher with stats that made little to no sense all in a game where the enemies were maddeningly hard if you had no clue that everything was a half refereance to D&D and Monty Python.

It's, by definition, artificial difficulty. In theory, you could make a version of the game that's actually suppose to make sense (Ultima from the perspective of an college age American nerd in the mid 80s) and it would only be hard to the most potato-brained casual-fags.

>>6392434
No, it was the SMS one, then the Genesis remake, and then the Game Gear port.

>>6393875
>then the Genesis remake
kek, nice headcannon anon.
Maybe you got the SMS version first in whatever country you're from, but Sonic 1 8-bit was originally developed for GG, the SMS version idea came later.
>The 8-bit Sonic was created specifically for the Game Gear, but Sega also had Ancient develop a version for the Master System, which was selling well and had similar hardware.
Source: untold history of video game developers, interview with Yuzo Koshiro, who produced the game.

this is the closest I can find to a pic of the section, but you need to make your way to the bottom of the area. these blue platforms make you bounce if you touch them, and you bounce higher than the distance between platforms so hitting one will send you bouncing right back up to the top again. it's so tedious. even in this screenshot the player is midway through being launched offscreen.

>>6394231
this section in the previous level is ass too. mess up, you hit the spikes and are knocked backwards and need to redo part of it. the level has a bunch of these in a row. it requires very tight timing.

These early level sewer missions. Literally just a repetitive maze of the same shit. Confusing and bland. Lazy level design

>>6391471
I remember all the urban legends about this sword.

>>6391471
Tibia is a shit game, but between the devs being dicks and the players being dicks, it was pretty hardcore back then

>>6390581
HAHA BARREL MEME XD
>>6390702
Because the meme is worn out and not everyone was a dumbass when they were 8.

>>6394481
It's kinda sad seeing interviews with Ultima Online devs where they act like they think stuff like unrestricted PvP and all the cutthroat emergent insanity was somehow a bad thing. Being able to ambush anybody to steal months' worth of progress/loot or throw fire bomb runes outside the trading post in a city and turn the main street into a bloodbath is all I ever wanted in a MMO.

I guess there's shit like EVE but it ain't the same.

>>6393384

Ghouls n' Ghosts have treasures that turn you into ducks or an old man. Game also tends to make you take a weapon you don't want.

>>6390167
That's not the dev's being a dick it's the game gear being a dick haha

>>6390409
It's a good game though. Has the best story of any final fantasy. Use a guide for the dungeons cause you're actually missing out.

>>6390621
That's no ninja spirit tho

Post 'em.

>>6391053
Bruh just use the medusa head to knock you through the floor before all those jumps and skip that entire section.

>>6391572
Dude the shield is a fucking great weapon. Better than the knives even it may lack range but it more than makes up for it in power.

I can't imagine anyone doing Quickman stage without dying to these things on their first go around.

>>6393867
Most retarded take I've heard. The only thing that "makes no sense at all" about the stats is that resistance is useless, and they all eventually get diminishing returns. What did you not understand about the stats in dark souls? You're pulling shit out of your ass. Also no idea how knowing D&D references help you outside of maybe knowing what a mimic is? Your complains don't even make sense dude. It is just a game in which death comes often and enemies can kill you very quickly, so autists sperg out and call it artificially difficulty. Grow the fuck up l o l

>>6392561

Pleb

>>6393867


Definitely not true. Miyazaki didnt play much of video games in his life. The game that made him want to make games was Ico, made way past the era of games you are talking about.


Dark Souls ambiguous storytelling came from Miyazaki liking english.high fantasy novels as a kid but not knowing what every word ment so he filled in the blanks.

The team who developed the game had no intrest in making homages to old RPGs. They where just being paid.

>>6394928
>I can't imagine anyone doing Quickman stage without dying to these things on their first go around.
It's entirely possible if you just remember to stay to the right on that screen and the next and act fucking immediately, not a half second less, but you're right, the first time ever, good luck.

>>6394993
>>6395039
Not that guy but you're both weirdly wrong. Like I find it strange that you just chose something to be wrong about and wrote whole paragraphs on it.

>>6393867
Not Ultima/Kings Quest so much as Wizardry type shit like the rest of the Japanese home PC industry, though.

>>6395097
I honestly do love Quickman stage overall. Such a thrilling rush racing downward. But the level is pure dickishness in that you are going to die so many times not knowing where the beams will come from or the best path through.

Yeah I know you can say this about every Sierra game but fuck them and this stupid glass.

>>6392434
Don't be daft, man. Have you played the game? It was so clearly made for the proper sized screenspace of the Master System. The Master System was so obviously the target platform for Sonic 1 and 2 8-bit, with only Chaos being made with handheld dimensions in mind.

>>6395158
I admit that the beam part used to make me do an obscene amount of tries to get through it, fully believing that it was random somehow for decades.

>>6395232
Read >>6394169

>>6395110

100% not wrong.

>>6390005
at least that's not as bad as the fortress in world 7 on SMB3

literally has no enemies and they hide the exit in the dumbest location

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocepkHYNhkE

>>6395793
Story? I've never played the game.

>>6393747
Not mandatory, but it's a ridiculously high encounter rate that might as well be mandatory. I can count on one hand the number of times I've left one of those rooms without a fight.

>>6395794
The designer put that chocolate in there because he knew it would piss people off on how do you get that.
There is no legitimate way to get it.

Making your game braindead easy, with checkpoints halfway through your already short levels and bosses with only 3HP each. Then put your pleb filter all the way in the final dungeon, which is a long corridor of death traps followed by three 'minibosses' and then three forms of the final boss with 3HP each. Also, there are no check points.

It's not amazingly hard but it's a huge step up from the rest of the game.

>>6395827
I like their style. Very artistic.

>>6395827
Can you use a Gameshark or something to get it? You said legitimate, so are there illegitimate ways?

>>6395978
Right, if you noclip you can get it.
It's just chocolate, it restores health, nothing else.

>>6395039
that's not completely true, DeS was a spiritual successor to King's Field

>>6391725
Zoomers think dark souls and shitty indie platformers are hard

>>6393389
And still not funny.

>>6395715
Why are you lying?

gee, who knew an optional superboss that party wipes you in its first turn was inside some random chest

Do you have enjoyable examples of devs being dicks? Like I remember a few Lemmings levels where they predicted what you were going to do and added an invisible trap just at the right place.

>>6393752
The entire game really, though it's hard to say whether the devs were being dicks, or just bad

>>6391587
Jesus Lord in Heaven the fucking mine. It's legitimately grueling, even in the Japanese version I had a lot of trouble. Hardest Castlevania stage ever.

>>6390437
>>6391572
Just use the Level Select code to skip to the joke of a final boss after you beat Nebiroth normally. Capcom put it in the game for a reason. They knew they were being assholes.

>>6394889
The bracelet can be good after you learn it, but it's not even close to the dagger, even more so when it's upgraded to the laser. With how the weapon works, you need to get super close to an enemy and thus, jump to dodge out of the way every time, whereas the laser daggers allow you to fuck up everything from a distance... and even have a charge shot to insta kill Red Arremers. Way more efficient. You can't even block projectiles with the bracelet if you're not gold armor, and that's a shitty tradeoff for the charge attack. And the point is, all this makes it REALLY hard to use against Nebiroth, and with the time limit even more so. It's plain dickery, and after you beat the game once.

>>6391725
This what a digital pen and paper game looks like.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/

>>6396487
why are YOU lying, gamer

>>6395847
Part of me wonders if that's a partial consequence of the "do any world in any order" design.
Still, it's a harsh wake-up call.

>>6395847
>>6396736
I just played it and honestly, I fucking loved it. It makes the game even more memorable and coming back to, like the rest of the game is just a cool warmup for that one gauntlet. My nibba Wario sure had one hell of an introduction.

>>6393741
These are hardly "death beams" and pretty harmless if you avoid fall damage (and the accompanying dizzy animation).

>>6390931
even if you weren't wrong you'd still be a bitch

>>6390297
>Wizardry 4.
Wizardry had hilarious trolling from the devs even in 1... anybody remember that poem that ends in "PIT"?

>>6393345
I never played it desu

>>6394847
>That's no ninja spirit tho
Imagine being the guy in a 1988 arcade who thinks he's right about to beat the game and runs into that shit, and gets to pay a credit for every attempt

>>6394847
>>6397278
>Ninja Spirit
Even in the PC Engine version I thought I was getting fucking punked until I saw a walkthrough. What a motherfucker that drop is.

>gets to pay a credit for every attempt
Pretty obvious that was the point I think.

>>6397301
>Pretty obvious that was the point I think.
no question, especially since they drop it on you right at the end. if it were anywhere else, you'd just say 'this game is fucking retarded' and walk away, but by that point you're invested.

>>6397307
All things considered, the game is pretty alright, and that drop is manageable once you know the cheese. The arcade has some great graphics and voices for the time and the PC Engine ver is not a bad port at all, less bullshit than the arcade. It's just fun to learn the levels ans bosses and blow everything up. I like that game.

What's that? You're new to D&D rules and have only been playing this game for an hour? You likely only have two level 1 party members with minimal equipment and combat options? You may have only been in combat with a gibberling or wolf by this point? Here, try a level 4+ mage.

>>6397339
C'mon. There is a reason that Imoen spawns with a Wand of Missiles that always hit. It's a pleb filter that teaches you how to counter mages and disrupt spells. You can put this game away if you can't get past this guy.

>>6397347
Yes, that is the "solution" here, but it is still far from guaranteed. Mirror Image has a very fast cast time, so it's more than likely that the missile won't hit Tarnesh until after his images are up.

If that happens, they will either burn an image (and a new player might not even recognize this as having happened; they've never seen the spell before) or possibly hurt him (not kill). His damage spells are probably one-shots at this point, so if you don't interrupt them (and again, players are new and might not realize you can interrupt arcane casters) you lose right away.

If they had just given him a different spell, like Blur (still second level!), the wand would still have been a major tool for success, but a player would be able to get by in other ways. Again, they are trying to learn an entire system here and this fight comes too early for such trial-and-error gameplay.

>>6390430
There a patch for that? I was gonna start up SF soon.

>>6395847
This.
Got to Wario's Castle in a couple of hours the first time playing it and it took me just as much time to beat this single level

>>6397382
Somewhere, Shining Force Central is the go-to for romhacking so there could be a fix. Alternatively you can just hack the items into the inventories into Sheela and Taya's inventories with an editor.

>>6396706
>>6395715
>literally has no enemies
Apologize to me

https://youtu.be/KHWKGFeuawA

>>6396578
I mean sure, you have no idea to expect any particular level of strength from a chest encounter, but early in the game you do that timed escape from... I think its called Karnak? The fire crystal town, anyway. Full of chests with monster attacks. After that, you should understand intuitively that chests can be risky.

>>6397347
>>6397369
When I was a kid and got the first chapter of Baldur's Gate on some budget disc my first few attempts were death, then I lured him over to the guards and let them shitstomp him. Even easier when I learned Montaron and Xzar were of opposing alignment to me and eagerly used them as meat shields/interrupters. If they died, oh well, remove from party.

>>6397339
>using a picture of yourself

>>6390850
>playing FF1 for the first time
>get to final dungeon
>can't save at all while inside
>get to final boss after at least 30-40 minutes
>casts insta-death spell on my warrior on his first turn
>can't revive characters during combat
FUCK YOU SQUARE YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS

>>6390065
And that’s all without including BoF2’s shoddy localization, to the point “yes/no” prompts are reversed in some places and introduced bugs

>>6390437
Oh fug

>>6390027
Drove me nuts as a kid

>>6391546
I never had Genesis but I still remember my friend rage quitting HARD at that level.

>>6394928
I just freeze that part

>>6398406
that's a master system game

>>6390929
you’re probably remembering knowing what was up ahead and grinding before because you’d used crash to open a few walls. ive played this game once a week since it came out and had to think for a second because i had the same memory

>>6394538
>xD
Shut the fuck up

>>6398097
Yeah, that was pretty weird. "Would you like a tutorial on shaman fusion?"
>"Yes"
"Okay, let's get started!"
>"No"
"Well here's an explanation that still doesn't tell you what it actually does"

All I know is that Cain can't do it, and everyone else can only fuse one at a time so far.

>>6390128
god, fuck hectic

how the fuck i figured this out at 10 years old with my friends cart and no guide is beyond me

>>6398961
I curse developers each and every time I check a waterfall and it has nothing behind it. Only one of us can be right.

>>6398961
Did you talk to the Mr. Saturns? One of them tells you exactly what you need to do.

This whole game is just a never-ending loop of getting kicked in the balls.

>>6390534
good shit

>>6393384
did the same damn thing

>>6393345
Imagine thinking dark souls is hard

>>6393898
>>6392326

StarTropics could cap out this whole thread. Good thing that game was so charming, or else it would have gotten the "Atari ET" treatment.

>>6394928
I had no problem with Quick Man's stage the first time I played, I was surprised it was as infamous as it is.
Heat Man's stage is bullshit though. Fuck those disappearing blocks.

>>6399363
>Fuck those disappearing blocks
This, but you need to do it at least once. It's a warm fuzzy feeling when you achieve it.

>>6390005

Do "local translators" count as "devs"?
Does "being lazy" = "being dicks"?

If yes, I've got a game I've been angry at for 32 years, and I need to vent.

>>6390005

Surprised this motherfucker hasn't shown up yet

>>6399490
Just looking at this image and I can already hear it.

>>6399540

https://www.101soundboards.com/sounds/17015-walls

>>6399120
why is this game such a meme though

like I'm a fan of kusoge but there's an endless ocean of this irredeemable type of shit that aren't actually worth playing, they're just bad in a way that lots of other games are bad and equally not worth playing
as far as I can tell it's that category of shit, isn't it?

>>6399583
It's such a meme because it's so hilariously designed in every way that works against the player. It's just one amazing, amateur-ish train wreck after another.

>>6393557
Even fucking Atlus stopped making hardcore dungeon crawlers and felt into casual dating sim garbage with cute animal mascot for children. And sonyggers are licking this shit.

>>6394582
Unrestricted PVP in an MMORPG is a fun concept but only when the majority of people are actually roleplaying or trying to take the game seriously (as most people did in the late 90's/early 2000s). When a sort of honor system emerges out of the fact that you can kill or be killed at any moment it's pretty fun.

Sadly that would never fly in a modern MMO as the modern MMO player is just a dirty shitbag that just wants to get ahead and fuck everyone at every petty opportunity. Like look at those shitty deadman worlds that happen on Runescape, each time they open a new one it always just boils down to small groups of people coordinating to get ahead and then coordinating to shut any new or underleveled player out of being able to do anything whatsoever. It's shit. You're never going to see something like the Swamp Defenders Saga emerge from the assholes playing MMOs today.

>>6390160
Not hard, James is just a complete fucking retard

>>6393898
Got too greedy.
Did you think they'd give you three bottles?

>>6395715
Why does the music when you turn the blocks into coins, and the coin soundFX on top of said music, make think more of SML2 than SMB3? Fucking 90s.

>>6395793
I can actually hear the level designer laughing to themselves when you happen upon this.

>>6397595
i apologize :)

>>6399691
I dunno man, I can't say modern players seem any more griefy (and I'd guess kind of the opposite on average since gaming became total pussyverse where your toys get taken away for being a meanie while faggots cheer), although I'd concede that coordination tools are a lot better if you want to wolfpack.

I think it's more a matter of design allowing for an equilibrium to be reached.
Like taking Tibia as an example: at least in the early days that game had a really harsh XP scaling curve--I remember it took *years* for the first person to hit the level cap--yet when you died the penalty was a flat percentage XP loss. Potentially weeks' worth. And usually meant dropping at least 1 level.
So the risk/reward for being too much of a dick was a significant consideration. Ganking a low level player for fun might only inconvenience them a couple hours' worth of grinding, but getting out-juked or baited/counter-ambushed or white knighted would cost you (literally) exponentially more. And that's on top of dropping your entire inventory.

Modern games wouldn't fuck you in the ass for dying like that, so players aren't "armed" in the sense that results in an "armed society" developing. And that's a consequence of that follow-the-leader retard pill every company* swallowed after WoW, not so much the players.

(*except EVE)

>>6399964

Bless this response, for this Anon understands what has been lost.

>>6398079
i, no joke, got buttfucked by warmech in my first playthrough as a kid. didn't find out until later that i got extremely unlucky.

>>6399583
The idea is that it's the worse of the worse of JRPG. Famicom is flooded with lots of JRPG and many of them are just bad but Hoshi Wo Miru Hito is just the worse of all of them. Between bad art, bad programming, and based on what I've heard you have no idea what you are doing 99% of the time. It's just a mess throughout the whole game.

But honestly it really doesn't deserve to be here mostly since I feel this thread is mostly for good games with programmers just wanting to do something to mess with the player than it's outright buggy.

>>6391557
The worst thing is that the NES version was bugged in which it raised encounter rates for the entirety of the rest of the game instead of just the basement. Thankfully, it was fixed in all the remakes.

>>6392326
747

3 of us, for about 6 hours saturday night. Finally go it. Rental has to go back sunday morning. FUCK.

>>6400080
Can't you put it in the bank for items? Or at least make a random character and put it on them so you don't have it. Nice thing to have if you wish to do some grinding later on.

>>6390128
What's that Doom level with a clearly-marked, but totally fake exit? Messed with my head ever since

>>6400080

That was NOT a bug. Every DW/DQ game has an item or ability that raise/lower encounters (or straight up summons a fight).
These were highly prized because you had to grind, and they sped up the process.

Golden Claw was for DQ3. 1 was the Silver Harp, 2 had a flute or something. Later they added things like Musk and Whistle.

Messing with the encounter rate was a staple of the series from the first game on.

>>6391725
Imagine being nostalgic for artificial difficulty.

>>6390160
I never fucked up this is easy

What is happening here?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iZWDyCZrYKE

Somebody post that Wizardry 4 screencap

>>6401386
It's far FAR worse than just what is on this screenshot. But it gives a little taste of what the game is like.

>>6401134
fuck that pit

>>6401134
https://youtu.be/xQwYzEeMaiE?t=563
Ground directly in front of you opens into a lava pit.

>>6399964
Tibia also had that noob kindergarten pictured in >>6391471
That was a genius move on so many levels. Newly-made characters were completely quarantined with one another on a decent-sized PvE-only island until reaching level 10 or so iirc. And could never return once they left.

That would take at least a few days, more usually a couple of weeks to do. And it'd take even longer if you couldn't communicate well enough to trade for gear and healing items.

Long enough to get being a faggot out of your system and a deterrent/buffer for making troll alts, but importantly I'd bet the majority of players/characters probably didn't ever make it to the much larger PvP mainland.
So even before they added server shards, the continent was low-pop enough (and every character was the product of an investment of time, plus you'd tend to "graduate" with a wave of other noobs who had been forced into proximity with each other for a while) so that it was possible to actually develop a reputation and have people recognise you.

>>6401470
When devs react to players complaining that a game is too easy by adding a "Nightmare" difficulty to the sequel people mock them a little. Making an entire sequel designed to drive your weakest players into the mouth of despair so that only the strongest survive is a far wiser move.

>>6402098
Thinking back, for a game that looked like muddy pixel vomit with chunks of ripped assets floating in it, early Tibia was actually full of genius design decisions.
(For them to fuck up later.)

>>6401470
christ lol

>>6402098
>it was possible to actually develop a reputation and have people recognise you
Case in point I just opened two different pages of old screenshots (bc the one in this thread isn't the original awful graphics) and found like half a dozen usernames I remember hanging out with. Fucking wow.

Off topic but if anyone cares:
http://www.nightmareknights.com/historyprojects/veryoldscreenshots.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games2/tibiascreenshots/

>>6390005

This entire fucking game, honestly.

>>6391826
There's a guy counting hidden chests.

>>6402391
I actually don't think dragon's lair is that bad, at least compared to the other two games. Space Ace has a much faster pace which makes it quite a bit harder to react to anything and dragon's lair 2 requires you to press many inputs in a row to complete a room and missing one has you restart that room from the start, whereas the other games would just skip ahead.

>>6390134
>FSHOOO FSHOOO

>>6402141
>>6402170
The game feel like something made in 1984 when things were slowly coming together. Wizardry 4 is actually a well made game but it takes the Wizardry 1 idea and turn everything to the nth degree. But I get it Wizardry 1 had slight puzzles here and there but not really enough for people to think of it as a puzzle game. And that's because they had to cut out so much shit from it. If I could guess Wizardry 1 was meant to be more puzzle based with riddles and other things but since that takes up so much space they just made a maze dungeon crawler.

Now with so much more freedom to fuck around with they basically made the game they always dreamed of making. And that was just it being one big bad annoying puzzle dungeon where nothing is really explained to you and you need tons of outside knowledge (including religious knowledge with regard the true ending) to be able to solve anything.

>>6399036
oh no my friend. one does not simply check behind this waterfall. one must wait at this waterfall. wait. for. five. fucking. minutes.

>>6401470
There's more. Trebor the ghost not only insta-kills you, but he can move through walls, and he moves in real-time while your movement is turn-based. This means you can leave the game sitting there while your mom tells you to take the trash out and you can come back to a game over screen in what you thought was a turn-based game.

Also, you know how you were expected to draw a physical map on graph paper like you were playing D&D? Wizardry 4 had all sorts of map shit just to fuck with you. When you load your save game after Trebor killed you, try to draw this absolute bullshit (pic related) with a pencil. There are spinners, teleporters, one-way walls (some of which drop you in 1x1 rooms you can't escape unless you have the right spell), land mines, and more. There are riddles that require intense knowledge of the first three games to solve, and GameFAQs won't exist for another decade. One riddle even demands you know a catchphrase used frequently on the game creator's BBS; hopefully your mom will let you make a long-distance phone call.

I have respect for anyone who can get through Wizardry 4 even with a guide and maps. It's the I Wanna Be the Guy of CRPGs.

This is fucking garbage and one of the reasons I'll always go for Hard Corps rather than this one.

>>6403270
As I said far FAR worse. It's honestly an impressive game if you break it down and talk about all the weird shit they were able to do with the game. Cosmic Cube is pretty damn impressive if you stop and think about it. But the game as a whole is not even just for Wizardry fans but you pretty much had to be in the team circle. As in their LARPing circle since there's a whole section dedicated to talking and fighting some of the leaders of the LARPing group. It's a game made for literally no one but the team who worked on it which fuck it congrats.

>>6399964
>when you died the penalty was a flat percentage XP loss
Speaking of devs being dicks, if you died so many times that you got demoted below a certain level (lvl 6 iirc) the game would strip ALL your equipment and ALL your exp from you and send you back to the starting island as a lvl 1 character.

Because clearly you're too much of a noob to fucking live so you'd better go do the tutorial again for a month.

>>6403280
top down sections ruined contra 3. They are just shit.

>>6403785
The first one is braindead easy then the second one is infuriating with those bridges that can collapse before your feet if you enter it through the bad end, plus enemies shooting at you from outside the screen, that HORRID boss, and all that right after the shitty 4th stage boss. That right there, is an awful slog of a stretch, more than it being overly difficult, cause Stage 6 is harder but way, way more fun than this.

>>6399490
C'mon man, the games basically train you to look around the outskirts of towns specifically for stuff like this.

>>6399490
>>6404409
By the time you need to get there you already had to walk around one of the towns (forgot the name) to buy those keys.

>>6391672
Wasn't there some shit where you could get Masamune from the Gold Saucer for a ridiculous amount of points and when you got it it was a replica and you couldn't equip it?

If you ever got far in this game and died you know how frustrating pic related was

>>6399419
Translation in that game was a joke

>>6399419
Have you checked Brahm's mansion for said clues?

Granted, it's the very beginning of the mission so you don't really lose any progress but there's absolutely no way to see it coming on your first playthrough.

>>6403280
Just line up with his eye and you can kill him within seconds
Losing a life just means free hits since you can stand inside of him during the invunlerability

>>6404792
God I haven't thought about that since the last time I played it and it brought everything back immediately

>>6404801
With what weapon? What kind of seconds?

Also I'm not gonna lie bud, that does not strike me as a sensible strategy in this game with limited continues where every life is invaluable.

>>6395039
>Miyazaki didnt play much of video games in his life. The game that made him want to make games was Ico, made way past the era of games you are talking about.

"Miyazaki: We are always thinking of ways to tell the joy of classic RPG with modern technology."

https://n4g.com/news/268654/demons-souls-director-and-producer-interview

>>6402197
Is Tibia alive nowdays?

>>6404816
Man, I wonder how many of the posts I read on this board are just lies presented confidently

>>6404807
I think Crush > Laser > Flamer
All the bosses die up until the level 6 ones die in like <10 seconds if you focus their weak point. First stage of the level 5 boss should be pretty easy, when he starts spinning fast you need to be quick about getting a good counter spin locked toward his eye and you should be good.
The ideal is not to die, but it's okay to use up a life or two on a difficult spot. I think it's much worse to lose good weapons that might be impossible to get at important points later on and could trivialize certain otherwise very difficult spots.
But I think all the weapons drop in level 6 anyway, so it should be fine here. I'd probably keep a Crush gun for those wall mouth things since I'm fairly certain you get Homing or Flamer pretty early on for the ayyliens that rush at you from the sides of the screen.

>>6404875
Okay that's actually really good advice. If I ever make it to that place with more than three lives, I will try, thanks.

>>6404479
>get through 6-1
>get through the bullshit that is 6-2
>get through 6-3
>get to final boss
>die once
>next thing I see is your picture
I just laughed at that point. I haven't tried again since then.

>>6399714
I honestly thought it was another way to continue forward.

>>6404831
No idea.
I declared it dead back in like 2002 after they added server shards and a premium-only city along with pay2win premium-only spells.

Speaking of devs being dicks I did try to log in again like 10 years ago only to find they'd deleted my whole account for inactivity.

Also an example of devs being mondo retarded since deleting your built-in player base of kids who get older and could potentially try to come back with the ability to pay for premium isn't a good trade for recovering 14kb of server space at a time, you dunces.

>>6404831
yes, their player count is at ~ 28k right now. brazilians wont let it die.

>>6404451
>>6404409

I can tell you didn't play DW, at least on release. The screen was your enemy, and there was nothing to indicate that this would be the ONE place you could walk off the edge of the screen without leaving town.

Later games made that type of puzzle practically a meme.

in memory of the new generation getting to experience streets of rage

>>6405597
As you are walking around you would spot these one of these characters indicating there was a way to walk around the town area. And as I said >>6404451 It is needed to buy keys for the first time.

>>6401470
Can you even really call that difficult at that point? It seems winning is dependent on luck rather than skill. Like, are slot machines difficult?

>>6390021
Imagine if Nintendo still made games.

>>6399373
>*weapon-2s through it*
pshh nothin personell

>>6396678
I never knew how much I wanted to fug maiden Arthur until now. Thanks.

>>6405620

That's not even the right town, and you don't understand the point. Go back to tantegel map and look at red circle.

There was ZERO indication an extra line of terrain existed to the east - you couldn't see past the SW pond, there was. Plus the "clues" were red herrings, other than "somewhere in Tantegel". Congrats on being lucky, smart, or playing DW1 in the 21st century, when that trick was standard, but those of us who got our copy free with brand new Nintendo Power magazine got stuck on this shit for a long ass time.

See Also:

>>6399540
>>6399571

Those two people understand.

>>6405758

There's a similar trick in MM2 on Genesis. All of the dungeons are 15x15 grids but there's ONE mid/late game mine where, in order to get the Thing, you have to walk through an illusionary wall and travel outside of the 15x15 map. I think the rewards were the best Ninja and Cleric hireling plus a bunch of gold.

It was impossible to leave the 15x15 grid everywhere else in the game, no clues or hints that this would be different, it was just that one part.

That's what anon is getting at.

>>6393867
The Ultima games were translated and on JP micros...

>>6405758
>That's not even the right town
How are you this bad at following the conversation? The dude knows he's not posting the same town you are, he's bringing up the fact that there's another town that basically teaches to walk around the outskirts of towns for hidden secrets.

>Those two people understand.
How are you this proud of having confirmation bias? How do you handle being this gay on a daily basis?

>>6390005
>Hey, he warned you

>>6399419
This game sucks. Castlevania 1 and 3 are great classic Nintendo games, but for Castlevania 2 Simon's Quest, the game designers obviously were not thinking straight.

>>6404964
It's good that you laughed, a friend of mine smashed his controller to the floor in frustration...

>>6399419
Didn't the NPCs in CVII outright lie to you in the Japanese version, making them even more useless?

>>6406587
Doesn't actually delete your save data. (Unlike entering cheat codes, but you get a confirmation before that.)

>>6404957
I hope it's right and there's not some hard mode thing I'm forgetting about.

>>6390781
I don't get why some people say 2 is the best game when it has that motherfucker in it.

>>6393345
>infinite lives
>hard

>>6392342
>game is about exploring and finding secrets
>oh but don't explore too hard or we'll fuck you in the asshole

>>6393448
the music in this game drove me fucking insane

>>6400225
E2M6: Halls of the Damned.

>>6404484
WHY IS THIS SHIT EVEN IN THE GAME JESUS CHRIST

>>6406946
I think they do in both, but the Japanese version makes it easier to tell by them saying "rumor has it" or "I heard" in regards to fake info.

>>6405774
I think you must be confused with another game. The best Cleric is with the best Robber, both at 4,11 in Dawn's Mist Cavern. The best Ninja and best Paladin are at B4 on the world map at 10,1. Even the elemental planes stay 15x15 grids. No hireling is outside of any 15x15 grid in the game.

MM2 does have it's own dev being a dick moment with the endgame Thing. You need it to finish the game, it's in a endgame area guarded by some of the strongest monsters in the game that only seem to appear there. You pick it up and go to leave, only to find you can't leave with it in your possession. The only way to move forward is to have a hireling with you. Give them the Thing, and dismiss them. Then go back to town and hire them back. This is the INTENDED way of solving the problem.

>>6407501
But if you can't leave, why the fuck would they be able to?

>>6392342
What door? It's a fucking staircase covered by a bush, you asshole.

>>6407563
That's the dick move. It makes no sense. But it's the only way to solve the problem. No other part of the game requires you to have hirelings, they are just optional additional team members who suck up gold every time you rest and will bail if you don't have enough to pay them with. And they charge more the higher their level is, so keeping them long-term and trying to upgrade them really isn't worth it until lategame when you have more gold than things to spend it on.

>>6407326
having limited lives and having to restart the game when you run out is a dick move itself honestly. it just makes you replay shit you've already done before with 0 changes if you want to try again. at least roguelikes are designed around it and switch shit up when you die.

>>6407501

Yeah, my memory was fuzzy, IIRC the whole mine itself was optional.

I thought of mentioning the "dismiss hireling" too - that whole game has devs = dicks potential.

Mitigated somewhat by the fact that you can roll up a brand new party and just basically use the well-known teleport glitch to the end "boss" which is an easily solvable riddle.

>>6406518

no u - I understand what that person is saying, but it has nothing to do with the issue. Yes, you can walk around the towns, and outside the walls of the town. But that's not what we're talking about here.

You have to WALK OFF THE MAP for the stones of sunlight.

>confirmation bias

I'm presenting evidence that someone else knows what I'm talking about. You and the person who you're defending clearly do not.

>>6390842
>>6392821
He's right you know. Western pre-mid-2000s PC titles were the definition of obscure, and therefore cringe, shovelware.
Name me 10 /vr/ PC games on the level of SNES/Genesis/PS1/N64 greatest hits. Hard mode: no FPSes. Protip: you can't.

>>6408017
forgot the pic

>>6404831
I have a 25 year old NEET cousin who plays Tibia literally all day long

>>6408017
SimCity 2000 nigga

>>6408017
Sim City
Transport Tycoon
Warcraft
Red Alert
Dune
The Need for Speed
Diablo
Theme Park
Blade Runner
X-Wing vs TIE Fighter

>>6408017
rollercoaster tycoon you fat retard

>>6408017
Worms Armageddon my man. I miss when wormnet was active.

>>6408078
That's a good list, but missed some I really like. This is just during 1999 alone (ps2 came out in 2000):
Alpha Centurai
HoMM3
Dungeon Keeper 2
Command & Conquer (up to Tiberian Sun)
Homeworld
Planescape Torment

Not to mention removing FPSs as a limitation is stupid. I hate stupid system war bullshit, as well as east/west market stuff. Different people like different stuff.

>>6408017
PC was flat out better by 5th console gen.

>>6408017
I see you completely forgot about Tetris.

>>6408078
>>6408116
>Need for Speed
Originally a 3DO game
>Warcraft and Diablo
got me there
>simulations, strategy and point and click shit
No wonder PC has so few iconic /vr/ games, too many are boring as shit due to their extremely niche genres only a handful of weirdos give a shit about.
Try again.
Very Hard mode: 10 /vr/ PC exclusives, meaning they never got ported to or from their contemporaries.
Expert mode: 10 /vr/ PC exclusives in genres that were well-represented on home consoles (platformers, action-adventure, JRPGs, shmups, etc.)

>>6408193
You mean the game most famous for being on the NES and Game Boy, and which was originally developed for a Russian (read: not PC) computer?

>>6408283
Just because you don't like something doesn't diminish it's quality. Moving goalposts means you have no core point.

>>6408116
>Not to mention removing FPSs as a limitation is stupid.
Because it would be too easy to say Doom, Wolfenstein, Quake, Duke Nukem, and Half-Life and TF1 and there's over half your list for you. I should have also excluded MMOs now that I think about it.

>>6408294
>there's no classic games on PC's in [time frame]
>it would have been too easy if you could include this entire major genre
Kinda proves the entire point wrong.

>>6408294
do you not realize how dumb it is to say "list good pc games.. no fps or strategy!"?
it's like saying "list good console games.. no platformers or rpgs!"

what do you want? battle of obscurities?

>>6408292
I haven't moved my goalposts. Barring Warcraft and Diablo, not a single one of those games is as iconic as the likes of Resident Evil/Tomb Raider/Metal Gear Solid/etc.
Even the Saturn, the quintessential nogaems console, has 10 iconic titles, in fact I'll list them right now.
The 2 Sonic games
The 3 Panzer Dragoon games
Virtua Fighter 1 and 2
Virtua Cop
Nights
Sega Rally Championship
Bonus: the definitive version of Mega Man 8
*Staples button* That was easy.
You might say "b-but Saturn was niche and it failed!" So what? PC is a much bigger platform so the fact that it has so few notable games made originally for it is unacceptable especially when its fans are the vegans of the gaming world. Even nowadays it's almost exclusively the port machine outside of indieshit.

>>6408326
You know, I had a post typed up to respond to this but realized you have no interest in actually discussing the subject. You're either incredibly stupid, or shitposting.

>>6408326
>not a single one of those games is as iconic as the likes of Resident Evil/Tomb Raider/Metal Gear Solid/etc.
all three of those have pc versions available

Was stuck on this part for 3 years.

Pic related's entire game is all around bullshit

>>6393250
Based
>>6405619
They are even worse in SOR4 than they were in SOR2/3

>>6408283
>>6408286
>>6408294
>>6408326
>"no, you can't just prove me wrong! your response was bad!! get rid of the stuff that makes me wrong!!"

Warcraft
Diablo
Diablo II
Touhou
Prince of Persia
Another World
Commander Keen
Castle Wolfenstein
Fallout 1
Fallout 2

If you have an issue with some of those you should check your own list first, then fuck off.

>>6408354
>please try another world

>>6408359
He's saying the PC games were too 'obscure' and not 'iconic' enough, then listed Panzer Dragoon games. I think he's just crazy.

>>6394538
>Yo here's this giant setpiece blocking the way forward that you never were properly taught how to use before
>Also it's affected by Sonic's momentum, but that won't let you move it enough to get past
>Haha just press up and down on the dpad
It's a shitty level gimmick, plain and simple

>>6408369
>the most critically acclaimed game on the system, and one that comes up in every discussion about the system, isn't iconic
Take your meds schizo

>>6408359
Congrats, you didn't prove me wrong.
>3 MMOs
>3 that were ported to home consoles including the fucking NES, and one of them's an FPS
4/10, you get an F-. Actually, make that 3/10 for including hu.

>>6408507
>3 MMOs
What the fuck?

>>6390021
I had more deaths in odyssey's post game than deaths in lost levels. The only difference is you really arent punished for deaths in odyssey vs starting the game over in lost levels

And I'm fine with taking that concept away IMO

>>6408507
all of the Sega Saturn games you named were ported to Windows except PD2/Saga and Nights.

>>6408283
>these genres are for weirdos
>you aren't allowed to list any games for genres I don't consider for weirdos
So your argument is that PC's don't have any games outside of specific genres that aren't popular with consoles due to different control schemes, and let's completely ignore any genre that doesn't support that argument. Holy schitzo batman. Did you lose all brain cells in /v/?

>>6391770
>port
SMS/GG version was basically an entirely new game loosely based off of the Genesis version. You could make the argument that the Game Gear screen crunch was the real problem here, but the rings over the spikes are not a port from Genesis thing.

>>6390781
>Out of ammo, goy? Completely restart.
The level, at least. The walls you break never respawn even on game overs, and you just need to game over to get Crash Bombs back in stock. Still a dick move though.

>>6395189
>npc offers to buy your now useless skimmer
>you are put in a no-win scenario unless you refuse his first offer