/vr/ - Retro Games

I don’t even know why I come here anymore, it’s just shitposting, I seriously don’t know why I would think a video game board on 4chan would be any different then the other boards, it’s all garbage and it’s not fun anymore, there is a reason Reddit’s retro community is 10 folds more reliable in content and entertainment

>>6371830
Then go there and take your cancer with you. It's a win/win.

>>6371830
What am I shitposting about? All the other 3D Zeldas are great games in their own rights, but none of them come close to the magic of the first 2. It's not even nostalgia speaking, they just seem like "perfect" games

>>6371830
there definitely is a lot more low quality shitposts on here recently

majora's is no masterpiece. not even saying that ironically. constant backtracking, and an annoying gimmick of time travel done worse than the game before it, done for the sake of being different.

>>6371825
Eiji Aonuma is in charge and he's a combination of completely inept at video games and hates The Legend of Zelda. So naturally the games made with him at the helm are always inferior.

But none of this is retro.

>>6371825
>>6371848
Because every game after Majora's Mask tried to be OOT 2.0

>>6371868
The only time I recall Majora's forcing you to backtrack is during Great Bay when you're collecting the Zora eggs. Even then, it's only really bad if you rushed through everything and haven't done any sidequests, as you should have 3 bottles by then

>>6371886
what is breath of the wild

you might even think botw is shitty but you can't deny that it is the most Zelda's broken from the post-ocarina formula since then. obviously not retro but we can't talk about 3D Zelda after MM without leaving retro.

>>6371825
I think they misunderstood what made them good, it wasn’t the new flashy graphics and features, it was good, simple gameplay and good storylines. Skyward Sword was the pinnacle of over-developing a game, 2 hours of forced tutorials before the first dungeon.

>>6371848
>All the other 3D Zeldas are great games in their own rights, but none of them come close to the magic of the first 2.
This. WW and TP were the greatest since then, but both have fatal flaws compared to OoT (sailing crap, dog crap, neither written nearly as well etc.)
>>6371868
>majora's is no masterpiece
It is, just not as great as OoT. The time stuff was indeed a bit gimmicky.

It was part of the era where just being what it was was enough, at least in OoT's case. It's a Zelda game with few intrusive gimmicks be it sailing, wolf form, waggle, or whatever else to get in the way, just you and regular ass Link going on an adventure. Other games from the time like Mario 64 and Star Fox are similar, there's a purity to them that later iterations would pile a million time wasters on top of. It's a situation where they say "well we can't just do the basics again" and end up all over the map as a result. Also probably worth noting that there was only a little over a decade between LoZ and OoT, so there wasn't as much fatigue on either the audience or production side of it, it's hard to imagine there are many left that are legitimately excited about working on or capable of bringing anything interesting to Zelda after grinding at it for decades now, to say nothing of the sort of toolshed you'd probably need to be to even get close to one of those influence positions recently. Just a shame that so many of these core concept type games were made when the hardware was the worst, though that is a big part of what makes them what they are. If I was declared king of video games I'd mandate new iterations of well regarded franchises be made focusing on pristine execution of what they got right overall instead of conceptual spitballing as a fond farewell to the screens not strapped to our faces era as we prepare for whatever hell awaits us in VR.

>>6371868
>majora's is no masterpiece
It's literally the best 3D Zelda.

>>6371825
MM is shit though.

>>6371830
Reddit is only fine for user support and niche interests or hobbies. Every other sub, including retro, is just endless vanity posting.
>look at this mario cake my gf baked me!
>here's my gaming setup
>wow look at all these gameboy games i got for $2!
>lemme blog about my life story and why ocarina of time is relevant to my dads death from cancer!
just fuck off.
>>6371825
they tried to appeal to everybody like every other franchise or publisher

>>6372770
>best gameplay and worldbuilding in the series
>shit
wtf

>>6371825
WW would have matched the quality of OOT and MM but it was rushed and essentially shipped out before it was finished for business/money/competition related reasons. This has been clearly confirmed by many of the key people who worked on it without hesitation, and is also clear simply when you play the game. If the team who made it had however many months they needed to give it the content, features and polish it needed it would be a masterpiece on par with what the N64 games were to the 5th generation for the 6th generation. In the end, it was still a great game in its own right.

TP was simply "OK, here, is this what you wanted?" the game. It was a direct result of the western reception to WW (although acclaimed by critics, less so by the "average consumer"), and Nintendo actually went on American internet forums and read the reception for WW and what people wanted in a LoZ game. Of course, many people in the United States, moreso than Japan for cultural reasons, found WW "too kiddie" and wanted a "mature" LoZ game where they played as a Link in a world more akin to the GC LoZ tech demo. This is why the art style of TP, though well executed enough, clearly incorporated that distinctive "western fantasy" style.

So after OOT and MM, we got a rushed and unfinished game, followed by a game birthed by perceived artificial demand. A direct response to rather inane and pointless criticism of the last game which was bold enough to be more original both in its aesthetic, world, and premise. If people and Nintendo were different, every subsequent game would have each made bold and original creative moves.

Skyword Sword is partially a combination of influences from WW and TP of course, but I think the final result, while not as atrocious as some make it to be, speaks for itself and there isn't much to elaborate on. Breath of the Wild is just borrowed and straemlined elements from other more recent games with a LoZ aesthetic.

>>6372306
>The time stuff was indeed a bit gimmicky.
I've never been sure what the fuck this means. It uses a core game mechanic often. Where's the gimmick? Do you think the game would be better or worse if it were the same game with no time limit and an open world?
>better
Then you're a moron.

>>6373006
It also allows a similarly sized map to OOT to take on far more life. It's adding a dimension; things don't just happen in one place perpetually, the game doesn't just move stuff around depending on how far you've completed it. The PEOPLE in the game LIVE and they take the EVENTS with them.

>>6371825
I think quality is not enough for a game to be well received, it must also feel like a novelty, check out BotW, I do t think it did many things right except being different.

>>6371830
I checked out the subreddit and didn't found anything interesting, post a good thread and I'll change my mind.

>>6371891
Oh yeah I forgot about that. I'd think Botw is up there with the n64 zeldas simply because of how well it broke away from the traditional formula much like Majora's Mask.

>>6371825

Anyone who thinks Twilight Princess wasn't at or damn near the quality of either of those are just shitposting.

This is ignoring BotW, which objectively was.

The only bad 3D Zelda game is Wind Waker.

Because the N64 Zelda's could never replicate the quality of the SNES Zelda.

>>6373234
not Skyward Sword?

OOT is probably the best use of padding I have ever seen. They somehow managed to make a game that reuses assets, has tons of useless cutscene/dialogue and even re-uses some cutscenes feel grand and epic. Really fooled a lot of people into thinking it was a greater game than it actually was.

>>6373209
Twilight Princess fucking sucked. Nintendo put their padding into overdrive with that one and was super lazy with it to. Imp Midna was the only redeeming part.

>>6373209
>This is ignoring BotW, which objectively was
>n't a spiritual sequel to the zelda series, and probably sealed the "3d zelda games" paradigm away forever
It's a great game, it's just a different game.

>>6373525
>ubisoft game
>good

>>6373538
I said great, not good. Great can refer to expansiveness. N decided what the Zelda series needed was a Modern Far Cry map system and an even more inflated map to match.

>>6372806
Lol I went on the PS2 subreddit recently to find support for mine after my fan went tits up and literally EVERY post was "Look at my new hauls (4 shovelware games)" and "Man its not to have my PS2 real gaming"

I ended up getting better help on Gamefaqs

>>6373556
If you stay away from popular releases Gamefaqs is lowkey really great for tech support/some discussions.

>>6373498
>Twilight Princess fucking sucked

>Zant was a better villian, even overshadowed Ganon
>First massive overworld with a variety of interesting NPC characters and locales
>Art style took a step away from the crayon colors the series was used to, faded neon hues with bizarre and grimy looks, almost Lord of the Rings
>Gave us proper motion controls for the first time that was intuitive to use, especially in a Zelda game
>Objectively some of the best boss-fights in the series... large scale battle with Stallord, Shadow of the Colossus-esque aerial fight with Argorok, four stage finale against Ganon
>Midna -- best companion (We agree)
>How was Ocarina's mounted combat? Oh wait....
>Darker and made for a much more mature player of the franchise
>Instead of "Save the Princess"---it has Dark Souls style storytelling where not all of the plot is shoved down player's throat and instead must be discovered through environmental clues and character interactions

>Best dungeons ever, no contest

>>6371825
THE MUSIC

Shiggy being at the helm of OoT gave the team the necessary clout to answer the question of "how long will it take" with "however fucking long it takes." Ever since then, the team has had to work against deadlines, spitball ideas that would get scrapped and reused later, and generally dialed back from the foundation laid by OoT

>>6373667
>>6373209
based

>>6373556
because they make the bulk of posts up mods won't do anything about it. once this place starts to get shit up by /v/ refugees I dunno where i'll go. Probably some dad gamer forums or something.

>>6373917
Luckily it seems like 95% of the people conform here or at least don't take the bait. /vr/ isn't as great as it used to be but it's still good, especially for chan standards. Once this place dives I probably will retreat to boomer formus or just give up.

Although GCCX or Diablo 2 will be universal asspain points here forever

>>6373917
retrogameboards dot com exists.

>>6373498
>Really fooled a lot of people into thinking it was a greater game than it actually was.

It's a fantasy video game, it's an illusion to begin with. All of the qualities you correctly describe to the absurd conclusion that it "makes it seem better than it is" ignores the fact that this is true for the "greatest" video games. They made the best game possible for the limitations of the N64 hardware and cartridge storage capacity, and it was able to blow people away precisely because they were clever with re-using assets to make it seem larger and with a greater story than it really was. Assuming you played the game when it was new, what else do you suggest? Did you feel "fooled" when you went 7 years into the future and saw the consequences of Ganon's reign on Hyrule, or do you think it was interesting to tread around the same world you did as child Link and check out what was different this time around?

BotW is a step in the right direction. The other 3D Zeldas between it and MM always felt too drawn out and linear with tons of cutscenes and other pointless handholding shit. Skyward Sword is 50+ hours long and barely any of that is interesting gameplay. I think they're back on track, and the new one will be similar to BotW but with more abilities and a more interesting world to explore.

>>6371856
I noticed that too and I hope that the jannies and mods clean this place up. I would hate to see this place turn into a cesspool like mu

>>6371825
>He hasn't played twilight princess

There are better games than your nostalgia bait OoT. It was cool for it's time, the 3DS remakes are better, and you gotta start playing better games

>>6371868
>I saw the Screenwave Fatsos script for AVGN's Majora's Mask so i believe it!

>>6372750
>I'd mandate new iterations of well regarded franchises be made focusing on pristine execution of what they got right overall instead of conceptual spitballing as a fond farewell to the screens not strapped to our faces era as we prepare for whatever hell awaits us in VR.
super mario bros U

>>6372806
>look at this Mario cake my gf baked me!
Holy shit, this is seriously the spirit of reddit captured in one line

I dont know why, but TP was the only Zelda that felt like a chore to me. I dreaded every fucking time I had to go into Wolf form, for whatever reason. The cutscenes also felt extra obstrusive. TP just didnt struck me the right way. When BoTW was released I felt like that was the game they shouldve made back then, instead of TP.

>>6374992
I agree, I don't have anything insightful to say about TP other than it was the most boring zelda game I've played by a wide margin. I guess I found the story and presentation very overwrought, with the preponderance of cut scenes and long dialogue sequences. It's a more expansive game but it felt more linear than the N64 titles, not sure why I had that impression. If my Wii wasn't broken I would try it again just to see.
And yeah wolf form sucked. I think it's because it's a limitation rather than a power-up or different enough from Link's moveset to be interesting. The pseudo-stealth gameplay in the village when you first turn into a wolf was kind of neat but everything after that is busywork.

>>6374992
TP is wierd to me because, although its an extremely polished and competent game, I would choose OoT over it any day of the week. The music and dungeon design is weaker. The ideas feel stale, and the visuals don't even feel like a selling point at this stage. It tries to be edgier but both oot and MM were miles better at managing this.

>>6373209
I really like TP, but it's too similar to OOT to really stand out on it's own. I also remember going back to it about 2 years ago and being bored to death by how easy it was. I got the HD "remake" for wiiu which adds the hero mode.

>>6371825
Quality, magic, perfect, ...it's just soul brotha

MM had some kick ass fucking mini games. Fucking loved the shooting galleries

>>6371825
OOT doesn't hold up very well imo. MM does however. every zelda since has been largely fine except for shovelware like numale Links Awakening and Link Between Worlds

I think the problem was reverting to more grimdark caresrs kind of shit with TP and being utterly unable to let go of the OOT version of the link/zelda mythos from then on. Zelda games never really did well with a coherent arcing narrative across multiple games, forcing OOT into everything since TP just feels hackneyed and limits the mechanics and makes setpieces seem asspulled. even in WW it was kinda cringe but at least there it was more muted, but every other game is basically Ocarina of Time spinoff

>Twilight Princess = Ocarina of Time 2
>Skyward Sword = Ocarina of Time: Zero
>BotW = Ocarina Souls

even the Oracles games re-used the fucking deku tree for no reason ffs, and the big bad of the pair is twinrova. why??

>>6375768
those minigames sucked. they were better than the OOT ones at least but they still suck

>>6375010
I think what makes TP shitty is how much dead air there is, and how railroady it is for a fairly long time.

OOT being big and open but ultimately linear was an artefact of its time; it was an important thing to get big open spaces like hyrule field, but the world was still physically quite small and you could traverse it in reasonable time. you get access to a faster form of movement pretty quickly in the second act and warp songs are doled out at an even pace. in terms of what you can do off the critical path, each section of the game has a major trading quest and little movement puzzles to get heart pieces and stuff, and most areas are open to you once you leave the woods. there won't be anything there, but you can explore them and at least make off with some rupees or hints for later.

TP though has fucking HUUUUUUUUUGE areas, even indoors, and getting anywhere takes for fucking ever. you get epona basically immediately so it doesn't feel like an improvement, more just a necessity to solve a problem the devs made up (the world being so damn big and so uninteresting to traverse). it's on the gamecube and coming after wind waker, so large open areas aren't impressive anymore. very little happens on the overmap, too, unlike WW which had ship combat and trawling for treasure and shit, or OOT where the world was just not that huge. there's also not a ton to do that takes you around off the critical path, and areas you aren't supposed to be in yet generally have an NPC that just tells you to fuck off.

a lot of other criticisms about TP are subjective but i think the world of TP is objectively too large for how much stuff is in it. the investment of time in terms of dead air before meaningful gameplay happening is just too big because of how far away everything is from everything else, and how large "interior" areas are as well.

>>6371889
they really shouldn't have had 4 eggs in the pirate fortress. i dont think you actually can even have 4 bottles by that point so you HAVE to make multiple trips.

i vaguely remember duping bottles to get past that on subsequent playthroughs as a kid, that was a really early found trick iirc

>>6375809
TP had some of the best dungeons in the series, but everything else sucked. It felt like a real drag to force myself to get through those in between sections. I'd keep getting super close to dropping it, then hit a dungeon and get -just- enough motivation to check out the next one since they were nearly all fun. To me skyward sword was the downtime of TP without any of the positives.

>>6375831
TP had some interesting takes on dungeons but it felt like a missed opportunity that they didn't have each dungeon be as unique as it could have been. Stuff like the snow area temple being literally just someone's house, like, why aren't you making all the locations be somewhere other people (or at least sentient creatures) might have built and occupied for some actual purpose? or like the sky one where there's a little mini quest to get the cannon and pay for its repairs, why not have a sequence like that for all the dungeons instead of just doing a minigame for a metroidvania item like the iron boots and zora armor bullshit?

>>6375843
>literally just someone's house

>be somewhere other people (or at least sentient creatures) might have built and occupied for some actual purpose

>>6375849
>literally just someone's house
Yeah, it's straight up this yeti's mansion. the boss is the yeti's wife who has been corrupted by vanity and the macguffin shard you get from being dungeons during that act of the game, but mostly her own vanity. There's a unique post-boss cutscene where instead of the heart piece just kinda spawning in, it shoots out of the yetis as they embrace after you beat the shit out of wife-yeti to un-curse her somehow. It's a whole thing.

Did you understand it as I'm suggesting that it be someone's house? It's not that, the snow temple in TP is straight up a yeti trap house