/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6365539
Yes, its actually one of the better comps.

>>6365539
It's expensive and heavily reliant on items, so you'll be hurting for gold, especially early game. You also have to be smart about your item limits. But after you put the effort in, you'll start to easily shred through most encounters. Upgrading to warriors will give you access to basic heals/buffs, which helps to save some of your precious items.

Not a bad party to run at all, once you get past the initial equipment/items hump.

>>6365573
No it's not, it's actually one of the cheapest because you don't have to get everyone new equipment and can just pass hand me downs around as you find shit in caves and spend money when you have it. It's one of the reasons the party is one of the fastest there is.

>>6365539
Armor and weapons are for pussies.

>>6365641
>fist of nort star
very nice

>>6365539
I'm running through the game for the first time. I've just done the class change and am on the volcano dungeon right now. The white mage seems like dead weight in this game compared to jrpg's of the 16 bit era and beyond, and my black mage seems to be most useful mowing down huge groups of enemies in random battles. Next time I play I'll probably try either 4 warriors or 4 black belts.

Also is it just me or are bosses really easy in this game? I guess maybe they did that because getting to the boss alive with no save points is inherently difficult. Just seems anticlimactic to annihilate bosses in 1-2 turns assuming everyone is alive by the time I make it to them

fighter
black belt
red mage
red mage

>>6365671
Fighter
BM
Thief
RM

>>6365539
Why are martial favored so heavily in jrpg's while they are usually boring / shit in the tabletop games that inspired them? It was really jarring the first time I played dnd with someone and saw that magic was like half the rule book

>>6365695
I love playing martial characters in D&D. Magic users slow down the game more than anything.

>>6365695
Havent played much dnd myself but I’m guessing the simplified rules may hav something to do with it.

Maybe using spells as ammo instead of having a cooldown timer factors in as well.

Just very rebalanced systems really.

>>6365695
japanese people have a bit of a connection to karate, it seems

>>6365695
Japs played early DND/wargame exports, saw HP as meat points:
So they don't pretend a ripped level 20 Barbarian is human anymore.

This seeped into their games as well. As you level in most early JRPGs, your ability to hit hard goes up significantly. You get entire mountains of HP.
And magic is rad, but its balanced around staying a little stronger than what you could hit with, since its a limited resource. But there is no pretense that these ripped high level guys is even anywhere as squishy as humans are.

yes, that was the only way I could beat it when I was a dumb kid

>>6365695
fidelity to the fantasy lit that gygax liked, where wizards can roflstomp entire armies

fighters are basically short-range casters in some jrpgs

>>6365641
COW
WA
BUN
GA

>>6365539
I played FF1 [/spoiler]on mobile[/spoiler] for the first time a few years ago and I accidentally made BALS TO THE WALL on my own without knowing about the meme. I started with a mixed magic party, and I was like, this’d go a lot faster with four fighters.

>>6365694

>>6365784
>Japs played early DND/wargame exports, saw HP as meat points:
>So they don't pretend a ripped level 20 Barbarian is human anymore.

????

>>6366097
What is particularly confusing about that?
Early Dragon Quest and FF is complimented by Lodoss, Fist of the North Star and Dragonball.

>>6366102

HP are meat points. level 20 barbarians are human.

>>6366106
>HP are meat points.
HP is Quantum Meat Points in DND.
Its meat point when its convenient, but not when its inconvenient.
Its a long standing fluff vs crunch vs internal consistency issue that it has never addressed. HP as meat points is basically a house rule, which works far better than the alternatives.

>>6366106
Not him but I think what he's getting ay is that when you get to higher levels in D&D your characters tend to get ridiculously beefy to the point they don't seem human.

I might be putting words in his mouth though, no clue.

>>6365695
>while they are usually boring / shit in the tabletop games that inspired them
Because you play D&D 3.5

>>6365573
>It's expensive and heavily reliant on items, so you'll be hurting for gold, especially early game
Just sail around and fight pirates for easy gold.

>>6366119
not who you're responding to but could you elaborate? I've never played DnD

>>6366327
In RPGs, hit points as a concept are really abstract so explaining them in an elegant way is hard. You know how in ff7 advent children, cloud didnt just stand there and tank multiple solar system destroying meteors to the face like he does in the final battle of the game? Instead, they just have a really elaborate sword fight and when blades make contact with flesh it's a big deal.

I assume that poster was using meat points to refer to interpreting hp as actual damage a character's body can sustain before dying. Another school of thought is that hp is your will to live / your ability to dodge attacks and every successful reduction in hit points is the character narrowly dodging or safely absorbing a deadly attack, and when your hp drops to zero you finally get struck with a wound to a critical part of your body.

>>6366394
ahhhh gotcha okay that makes sense. appreciate the explanation

>>6365665

I remember the white mage being a precious source of revival spells and EXIT. Also the HARM variants are awesome when they can be used. And some of the defensive spells (FOG, ALIT, etc.) can be good sometimes I think? But yeah the FF1 white mage is no Rosa. I never found it to be dead weight though.

Yeah bosses are not as strong as their sprites and their roles in the story suggest they should be. I never minded or even noticed this as a kid but as an adult I make better strategies than a kid would and like you say it tends to take just a couple of turns to bring down almost any individual enemy. Oh well.

>>6365641
>>6365647
>>6365904
I was inspired by this thread to start a new game of FF1. Haven't played it since I was a kid. Decided to equip my black belts with nunchucks and wooden armor (and 2 pootions with the leftover gold) and just marched straight for Garland to see if I could do it. I used one potion and he went down like a bitch. Is that fight always that easy? I remember as a kid I would always start out by grinding a couple levels before fighting Garland.

>>6366817
Martial classes in FF1 has better scaling earlygame. They have more defence, so they take less damage, so you grind faster.
Its just how the game works.
Its also aided by some minor bugs making buffs/debuffs less useful, elemental piercing not working correctly, and weapons having incorrect crit/damage ratings.

>>6366817
Garland is weaker than some mob combos in that dungeon

>>6366817
nani?

Man thief is fucking shit. Tell me ninja is worth it bros

>>6366870
Its good but not enough to make Thief worth it. Still mostly outclassed by the Warrior. It learns FAST though, which is pretty cool

>>6366782
Yeah I think the dungeons as a whole are a fair challenge because itd probably be too hard if you had tough bosses after making it through several floors of random battles, forced damage tiles, forced battles on certain tiles, taking a wrong turn or going out of your way to treasure hunt, etc. Hell I run from every battle when I know a boss is coming up and between those asshole wizards you cant run from and the monsters occasionally getting first turn everyone is already down to below half hp and the white mage may be out of healing spells by the time I face the boss so it makes sense why it's balanced that way.

>>6366870
i may have some bad news for you

>>6366870
Ninja is significantly stronger than thief thanks to his weapon/armor repertory, but he starts suffering from weapon shortage again during late game.
Still weaker than the knight, but has access to fast/haste which may as well be the best magic in the game, although this is redundant if you already have a black wizard or a red wizard.

I think ninjas work better in a team composed of
Knight/Master
Master
Ninja
White Wizard

This way you can save the masamune for him and justify his role as a buffer.

>>6365695
Fighting Men were numerically pretty good in the early versions of D&D which the very early JRPGs were based on.

It's the later versions that overfocus on Magic because Magic fans want to feel big brained over the chattel Martials

>>6366880

That's a good point.

>>6366870
>Running is based on agility
>Make a class with a high crit weapon, a neat spell list, and high agility
>Agility is bugged for running, so doh
>Hit/Crit for weapons is bugged anyhow, so high crit unique weapon is worthless
>Need to class up(Ninja) to get non shit weapon/armor equip
But this is the same game where Black Belt starts outscaling all weapons by level 20, as unarmed. And outscales the Masamune by level 30.

>>6366878

The one UNIQUE advantage of Ninja is that it's the only class with clothing that hides the face after upgrade. Accordingly, Ninja and Black Mage are immune to police lineups, which makes it really easy to rob inns and eventually get the secret super-lute.

>>6366948
>Black Belt starts outscaling all weapons by level 20, as unarmed.
IIRC it's as early as level 10 due to the high chance at multiple hits.

>>6366986
My master and knight are about level 16 in my current playthrough and the master (bl belt at the time) started consistently being my hardest hitter around lvl 14-15

>>6366817
Level 4. Black belts officially have damage reduction equal to wooden armor when they're naked. The weights are off, evasion engaged.

>>6366986
>>6366998
Well, that is a given since you do level faster than you get really rad endgame gear.

>>6366934
Well hopefully I'll find out some day. My friends all wanted to try dnd because of stranger things about a year ago. I was hoping it'd be some hardcore open ended shit like all the dungeon crawlers vidyas I'd played but with more freedom. What I got was a really easy game that was way too focused on muh build and had way too many special abilities tailor made to trivialize every single dangerous situation I could think of as a dm, so I dissolved the group after 4-5 sessions. The OSR scene seems cool to me and I've read through a few of the core books, but I don't think anyone is interested in trying it

>>6366870

Ninja is a great class and totally worth it. Having access to 3rd circle black magic gets you FAST and FIR2 which expands his damage capabilities by a lot, which scales even further with much better weapon and armor proficiencies. Keep in mind, BM has only so many NUKEs per day, and RM's nukes suck, so an extra salvo of multi-target offensive casts can be handy.

At least it isn't as bad as red mage, who is entirely dependent on your party make up as to whether he is effective or not. Ninja is always good. Just B-Line to that rat tail.

>>6367053
Lol, red mage does everything a black mage does almost as good, on top of having access to white magic, better stats, and better equipments.
Physically wise red mages are on par with thieves, and will only lag a bit behind once promoted, but then again, red wizard has better magics.
In the long run a red mage will be much better than a thief, only during very minor sections of the game a ninja can be arguable as useful as a red wizard.

>>6367053
Ninja is by far the worst class. This is an objective fact. They're better in the remakes, but still only marginally.

>>6367031
OSR is difficult because the scene was led by a wife beating sex pest for a long time, and it really plays up the
>We are the true keepers of a SECRET LOST HISTORY that is NO LONGER GREAT because of the MINORITIES AND KEKS
routine, so it's very hard to get a group that doesn't have some lingering toxicity just from being part of that community. I know this sounds SJWy but you really need to be able to compose yourself in a tabletop RPG and handle being around your group for hours without dropping spaghetti.

For real if you want a hardcore dungeon crawler it's worth it though.

>>6368035
>wife beating sex pest
I want to know more.

>>6368046
It's not a cool story. It sounds juicy but it's just faggots being faggots.
>Guy makes a web show out of playing old D&D with porn stars
>Guy sells a shit ton of retroclone stuff that he drew art for
>Guy compulsively googles his name to shitpost with fifty-eleven sockpuppet accounts all NO I DON'T KNOW THIS GUY'S PRETTY COOL HE INTRODUCED ME TO OLD D&D AND KNOWS SASHA GREY
>continually embarrasses himself with this
>D&D 5e asks him to playtest as a publicity tool for OSR faggots
>he jerks off constantly about how he played a critical design role
>everyone gets tired of him
>he still gets work from his toxic-ass fanbase
>he also shat himself at a game convention and walked around in poopy pants all day, and sued someone that posted about it on twitter
>the end

>>6368065
>talking shit on Chad Thundercock himself because SJWs got mad
What a faggot, Zak is fucking based

>>6367004
I'm starting to really feel the downsides of not having a real tank for damage absorption and not having a healer. The number of potions I go through is insane. Currently at level 6, attempted the Marsh Cave and got absolutely slaughtered by ghouls just a few steps inside. I might have to actually grind up a couple levels to compete, in addition to buying a shitload of potions.

>>6367031
You had a shitty GM who used a shitty edition. That's all. he probably used a horrendous railroady module from WOTC too. Don't ever do that, or else don't complain. Here's some reading if you care to find out what the fuck went so wrong at your game:
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/44282/roleplaying-games/abused-gamer-syndrome

>>6368046
The most prominent OSR (old school D&D) author, Zack Sabbath, was metoo'd by his wife, Mandy Morbid. Yes, THAT Mandy Morbid. She wrote a huge story about how he was an asshole, and he was immediately thrown out of the industry and left to rot. Now he whines alone on his blog (the blog classic D&D designers like Planescape and Numenera creator Monte Cook used to frequent and comment on, mind you) once a month or so.
When Mandy told how fucking horrible he was, everyone imemdiately believed him, because he was such a fucking douche you wouldn't believe. A good designer and writer, an alright artist, and a rather classic sociapath: staged and led internet campaigns, built circles of close allies and worked to drive people out of the industry through all sorts of backhanded schemes etc.
If you criticized him in any way, evne the most minor, he'd shit all over you on every platform and you'd also find yourself banned and unable to respond on each of those. He was pretty hilarious to watch, fun to deal with if you're into that kind of communication, and very entertaining to witness the falling of.
He fucked Mandy Morbid on camera a few times. If you see a skinny fuck with a mohawk porking her, that's Zak.

>>6368254
errata: Everyone immediately beleived HER, not him. Everyone believed Mandy. All of Zak's allies posted once to the tune of "I support Mandy and refus to deal with Sabbath or anyone who would continue to deal with him". All his transgender friends, all his pornstar players (Sasha Grey included, I think she was an elf barbarian in his campaign or something)--they all broke ties with him overnight.

>>6368254

That's how the real world works anon. That's why "networking" is just a fancy term for "kissing ass". If you're an asshole to everyone you open yourself up to the possibility of everyone turning on you. I'm not saying it's right, but it's also not surprising.

>>6368304
I don't see how that's wrong at all. They didn't hang him on a tree outside or anything. He just lost all of his friends because his wife said he beat and then gaslighted her and when she let him have girlfriends he abused those too. Everything that she told about ole Zak was so entirely, absolutely credible to anyone who's ever dealt with him.

>>6368254
>metoo'd

I think what you meant to say was, he raped her and faced consequences for it?

>>6368667
Did she claim rape? I remember some violence, some substantial gaslighting and all sorts of psychological shit, but I don't remember claims of outright rape.
Either way, if I'm misremembering and there was a rape allegation on top of that, that that makes this an even more obvious #metoo situation, no?
If it gave off the impression that I was trying to shit on the movement, I most definiely wasn't. The movement is a good thing, the fear of false allegations that are supposed to appear is clearly being disproven by history itself, and Zak was most definitely a shitter. I kinda half-believe that Mandy may have been a rather complex person herself, but that doesn't excuse Zak's fuckwittery.

>>6368238
I was the dm, we used the starter set for 5e. I think everyone else was having fun with it, but I kept getting annoyed wondering why the fuck at least one character would always have a super special ability that let the party bypass anything resembling a challenge that came their way. It was like they were strolling into a zelda dungeon and already had the dungeon item or something, everyone was awesome at everything from the get go and didn't have to earn it at all. Since none of us had ever played before I didn't know enough about the game to make it more challenging in a meaningful way and I definitely didnt know what I was doing in a lot of ways so in hindsight it was my fault too but I it really didnt live up to what I hoped itd be. I was hoping for something with the challenge and feel of fallout, baldurs gate, or final fantasy with more freedom to experiment and do whatever you want but that wasnt it.

>>6366106
You are literally retarded.

>>6368708
It is not your job to challenge the players. Best games happen where players try to change the world around them and you curate and adjudicate that.

Craft situations, not challenges. There's a treasure. A lich is guarding it. An undead saint wants the lich dead but players don't know it yet. Goblins are fighting the undead saint. Gnolls hate the goblins and vice versa. There are elven scouts who are secretly the drow. There are additional elven scouts who seem shady because they're actually drow-hunters. There's a wizard who says he's the lich but isn't. The intelligent spiders want the ruins back bacause it's their place of worship and are ready to cooperate. The lich has the dragon's hoard: enough GP for a lvl20 party. The party is lvl1. Dead = roll a new one. Got three levels in the same game session? Good for you. GO.

>>6368708
...oh, and remember. You are not a director, you are not a storyteller, you are not a showmaster. You are just another player, except you're playing the world. Just like players absolutely control their characters, you absolutely control the world, but that's about it.

What exactly is the trick to fighting Astos without magic? I do 1 damage per hit, something like only 15-30 if I crit.

>>6369272
well since you don't have FAST, you grind until you can do more damage

>>6369274
I assume the fighter's silver sword does more damage to him, yeah? I'm guessing this is particularly a black belt problem.

>>6369295
Honestly I don't remember having problems with Astos, the entire marsh cave and the 3-4 wizards at the end of it were much worse

>>6369303
I lucked out and only got 2 wizards. It wasn't terrible and at least I could damage them. I also don't remember Astos being a problem, but I've also never done a single-class party before.

>>6369272

What choices do you have? You can't use spells or weapons. You don't have any other big quests to turn to. So either beat him with your current party somehow (sounds unlikely) or grind.

Black belts/masters can punch anything into nonexistence, as far as I know. They just need enough XP for it.

>>6369359

Oh and note that there's a possibly useful grinding spot in a treasure room at Astos' castle I think? Like you can just step on one of those forced-battle tiles and have the battle, as many times as you want. I used that in my own single-class run... but maybe I was going for gold and not so much for XP? And also I had a way to easily kill the monsters with magic. So maybe it won't be good for you. But it's something to look into, if you want.

>>6369272
sweep the leg daniel

>>6369359
What I'm realizing is that I'm just not grinding as much as a typical party would because I don't have to buy armor, weapons, or magic. So I really do just have to grind up levels until I can damage Astos appropriately. Apparently he doesn't actually have any specific resistances to physical damage or anything, so I'm just underleveled.

>>6368254
>Mandy Morbid. Yes, THAT Mandy Morbid
why no! not THAT Mandy Morbid! heavens me!

who the fuck is mandy morbid?

>>6366817
Yeah, grinding before Garland is indeed a waste of time. Any party with two fighty types (even if one is a thief) can beat him at level one quite effortlessly. Your black belts could surely have done it naked at level one. If I was going fist of the motherfucking north star, I wouldn't buy them a single piece of equipment.

>>6369272
Got my party up to level 10 and wiped the floor with Astos.Interestingly, regular hits still only did 1 damage, but crits did 30+ each and at level 10 they started doing 3-4 hits consistently so the crit rate was high enough that I killed him in 5 attacks. He only got to try to attack once. Fist of the North Star mode has engaged fully.

>>6368035
>I know this sounds SJWy
You wouldn't have sounded like a SJW if you wouldn't have used the word 'toxicity'. Could have just said 'a lot of the berks who play are total poofs', but look what you went with. Now we all know you're a wanker.
Settle down mate, I'm just having a laugh. You're probably okay but you do use fruity words.

>>6368708
>we used the starter set
Well 5e is certainly the easymodo version, not always a bad thing as it can keep the roleplaying flowing, but the starter set campaign is surely specifically designed for that exact situation; where the base classes will have exactly what they need to succeed. It's kind of like a tutorial level in a video game, innit.

That said, older versions would probably scratch your itch better if you can get anyone to play. If your mates got into it because somebody played D&D on a TV show then you could sell it to them as 'well this is the edition they played on the show!'. I have not seen ST, but based on when it was set the game they would have been playing would logically be either AD&D 1'st edition or D&D Basic.

>>6366841
No way they take less damage. Fight literally any fiend, and he always gets 1 hit KO'd, even my black mage is more resistant. Monks are a glass canon.

>>6369968
Who needs steel when you have FISTS?!
Oh feeble Wizards, enjoy they brittle bone

>>6367031
Sounds like we're in the same predicament. I just want cool dungeon crawling adventure that's hard as balls and forces you to play smart or atleast creatively. Turns out all anyone ever wants to do is powerwank muh characters

>>6369598
A pornstar who often partnered with Sasha Grey.

>>6369598
Why are people sometimes proud of their own ignorance? What he fuck is the thought process behind that? Is it some kind of illness?

>>6365539
Yes it's one of the easiest ways to play.
There's a peninsula near the start where you can grind for some gold easily, and then use that gold to buy Silver Swords in Elfland iirc, with that you can just bash through large parts of the game.

For a less extreme option you could go 3 Fighters and 1 Red Mage.

>>6365695
>Why are martial favored so heavily in jrpg's while they are usually boring / shit in the tabletop games that inspired them? It was really jarring the first time I played dnd with someone and saw that magic was like half the rule book
You have to keep in mind what kind of d&d existed back then.
This was long before 3rd edition when magic reigned supreme.

>>6369272
punch his balls
that's the weak spot of the dark elves

>>6369791
I was kind of afraid that just the idea of denouncing people for moral reasons would be SJWy. Also,
>Guys don't say his name, he googles himself to shitpost in threads about him
>Someone says his name
>Thread is immidiately derailed by faggotry about him

>>6370787
OP made a big deal about a literally who. of course at least one person is going to call out that it's a literally who.

It's time.

>>6371036
'ate raoh
'ate bandits
'ate mutants
'ove clean water
'ove hokuto shinken
'ove ryuken
simple as

>>6370787
Because it's ignorance about tedious bullshit and not something you ought to know, like the day to day affairs of Kim Kardashians least famous sister, and in this case he acted like that particular tedious bullshit was a big deal.

>>6371069
'ate crab cuisine

>>6370787
Why would you be proud of knowledge of not even famous coomer shit? Its not like being proud of ignorance of newton or einstein or something.

>>6371036
Brother!

>>6365641
makes me wanna play
finding the rom is extremely easy, but is there a nes pack with all roms ever?
got one for snes which is nice to have

>>6371976
archive.org has downloadable packs of roms thanks to their dmca exemption

>>6371976
this board sticky links to the emugen wiki which will tell you what to get and where to get it

>>6368667
You will never, ever be a woman, not even in this board

>>6371034
It's a famous pornstar.

>>6371072
>>6370787
>>6371406
>Why would you be proud of knowledge of not even famous coomer shit
Being proud of knowing a pornstar wold be pathetic. But being somehow proud of any sort of ignorance is even more pathetic. You may or may not know who she is, and being proud of EITHER is absolutely pathetic. Because one is "coomer shit", sure, but the other is pathetic virtue signalling.

>>6367031
>My friends all wanted to try dnd because of stranger things about a year ago

Tell this to /tg/. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms.

>>6365539
>I didn't expect this thread to devolve into pathetic beta coomer sjws defending the honor of a literal drug addled cam-whore and white knighting for a me-too slag..

You disappoint me /vr/

>>6368667
No one who was part of the"me-too" movement was raped.
They exchanged fucks for roles. That's a transaction. That's prostitution. You sjws howl about how sex work is real work. So you need to decide if sex work is good or bad.

>>6368667
Fuck off. Tranny.

Anyone else feel the need to reset when one party member dies? I can't handle the idea of one character being behind on XP.

>>6373363
I hear you, man. Autism is a hell of a drug.

>>6373070
>But being somehow proud of any sort of ignorance is even more pathetic
It's not at all pathetic to be proud of being ignorant of what poop on a sandwich tastes like.
It means that you're sane enough to have never decided to try it.

>>6373070
the literally-who in question has no relevance to the thread topic
i think you might be overplaying not knowing who they are with the word "ignorance", unless you're going to proceed the word with "blissful"

>>6373316
>>/v/

>>6368035
Man you sound boring as hell. Please go back being a neet.

>>6373906
>>6373593
>>6373413
>>6373334

Well this thread has really gone down the drain. Somebody say something about MADPONYs or vorpals or something. How do you cope with SNORTING??? Share your strategies.

>>6374279
>How do you cope with SNORTING???
Like I cope with everything. Punching it in the dick. Does the Dark ailment even function in FF1? I don't think I've ever missed an attack while blinded, but I could just be incredibly lucky.

I just got done with a couple attempts at Chaos at level 28. First time I only had 3 living party members, second time only 2. Each time I actually got very close to killing him. The second time would have been a success if not for him using CUR4 right at the end of his life. I'm a bit too much at the mercy of RNG on my runs through the temple, though, because the Fiends can each one-shot any of my party members if they get a crit. I'm going to grind up to level 30 to smooth that out a bit. If I could just get a full party up to Chaos alive a win would be easy even at level 28. Keeping them all alive at that level just requires a lot of luck with each Fiend fight.

>>6374579
Sidenote: I fucking love the magic items with this all-BB party. I have plenty of free space to carry around every magic item in the game and it basically turned half my party into Red Mages with infinite spell ammo. Especially clutch have been the heal staff and the two heal helmets.

>>6374579
to my understanding, Dark is broken in vanilla FF1 and doesn't do anything.

>>6365695
1st ed D&D is very fighter heavy. Most mages don't live to see level 5 where they start to come into their own

>>6367031
Play ODD or 1st Edition

>>6365695
Because Japs decided to go with D&D 4e early and gave martials special techniques to rival the spells. Also put more limits on spellcasting. May have to do with marital arts manga having all those super power named attacks.
Of course here in the west when 4e came out everyone cried that they've made fighters into casters (even though Daily limits on spells is just as arbitrary) and praise 5e even though it dabbed on them by literally making every class have a spellcasting build, without multiclassing.

>>6366097
A level 20 barbarian can endure more punishment than a steel golem.
That's beyond "human".
Hell, there was this barbarian archetype that could become so angry it was literally impossible for him to die, regardless of hit points.

>>6368105
Hi Zak.

>>6365539
Enjoy having to tediously shift your party members if one of them gets poisoned.

>>6366097
In First Edition D&D, a regular fighter who made it to Level 9 was considered a "superhero" in terms of strength and durability. By the time they got to level 20, they were arm wrestling gods and ignoring damage from anything not magic based.

>>6375050
That's the case even in 5e though. Martials dominate in tier 1 because they can still kick ass when their resources are gone, whereas a level 4 Wizard can cast only a handful of spells. At 5th level Martials essentially double their damage output by being able to attack one extra time per turn, but Wizards get their nuke spells at that level as well, and the balance starts to shift more towards casters. Even so, parties without martials aren't generally optimal either unless at very very high level.

Has there EVER been a mod that fixes all the glitches in FF1? I remember in an ancient-ass thread that some of the dumb shit with spells were actually references to how 1e D&D worked (BANE works on Tiamat because of some weirdo rule about how Poison Gas starts working really well on monsters of a certain size if the caster's level is high enough), but I really want to play FF1 the way the staff intended for it to be played.

>>6375465
I fucking bet he's too afraid to go to any community, even /tg/, because of what everyone's saying about him everywhere. He's endlessly seething on dndwithpornstars and that's about it, I'd wager.

>>6375490
>Enjoy having to tediously shift your party members if one of them gets poisoned.
Just use a PURE potion and some HEAL potions.

>>6375490
The beauty of 4 of the same class is that you never have to rearrange them in any special way. They're all the same, so who cares who's in front?

>>6375532
>(BANE works on Tiamat because of some weirdo rule about how Poison Gas starts working really well on monsters of a certain size if the caster's level is high enough)
What? No, BANE works on Tiamat because she's weak to poison and BANE inflicts poison-elemental death.

Actually went with a all Fighter team a few months back.

It was pretty damn fast since I only bought gear that I can afford and the rest was hand me down.

The only real annoying part is how much potions I needed to buy since even when you get white magic when upgrade your class you only have the low level white magic and only like 4 charges at the end so you just down potions like water.

Also played with "Restore" romhack if that matters much.

>>6375840
The nice thing is that all the money you're saving on magic or new equipment can be used to just buy 99 potions pretty early on and then just keep a stock of them for the rest of the game. The heal staff and two heal helms in the late game are also great, even for a party with real mages.

>>6375853
Oh 100% it's just until you start getting those stuff it's you just being drunk on potions 24/7. The thing I feel I like most about "Restore" isn't just the bug fixes but also letting me buy in bulk on items is such a godsend. The idea of having to just mash 99 potions is something I never want to do again.

>>6375858
>The idea of having to just mash 99 potions is something I never want to do again.
Yeah, I use a turbo button for filling up on potions but it's still a pain to wait through it.

>>6375829
I think he was meaning that, in old D&D, the Poison Gas spell did more damage to larger monsters once you were able to cast it at higher levels.

>>6375528
Aren't the casters still using spells basically every turn though? Doesn't seem like there's much sacrifice for the upside later, I doubt many of the newer players even know what a sling is.

>>6375532
yes FF1 restoration or something, look it up

I still haven't beaten Chaos because Tiamat is a fuckhead who likes to ruin my day with BANE (takes out 2-3 of my Masters and then I job to Chaos) so I decided to go find Warmech and give him what-for. My level 31 Masters can kill him in 3 attacks on the first turn. Feels pretty fucking good. Working on leveling up now so I can have a better shot at resisting BANE and get my whole party to Chaos. Not having revive items sucks.

>>6376983
I kind of feel bad for the guy. This is all the damage he can do.

>>6367743
Ninjas are godlike in remakes because the games are full of stupid superbosses that shit out a million damage every turn and your mages are never surviving long enough to cast Haste/FAST.

>>6376983
>Masters
>resisting
Well, I hope you're playing a patched game.

>>6368667
Fuck off tranny.

>>6377224
Based. Fuck trannies.

>>6377180
Yeah, I did find out about the glitch where their magic defense growth tanks after class change and I was pissed that I didn't leave them as Black Belts. But I got to level 32 and tried again and this time Tiamat didn't use BANE at all, so they all survived and gangbanged Chaos no sweat.

>>6365641
This is ez mode tho

>>6377603
It has some interesting challenges of its own, like the low defense that makes them glass cannons. You end up having to just kill things before they kill you and your ability to burst out high damage becomes paramount due to low survivability compared to Fighters/Knights. Attrition is a real problem because you take so much damage that you can burn through a full stock of potions in the course of a dungeon if you're unlucky or not leveled enough. No magic, too, so you have to supplement with the few magic items in the game that give you access to a few buffs and some light healing which helps combat attrition in the late game dungeons.

>>6375532
>Has there EVER been a mod that fixes all the glitches in FF1?
There's plenty of mods that 'fix' it the way the hacker thinks it should be, but you must know that that's absolutley not 'the way the staff intended'. These patches contain far too many whimsical changes that are not bugfixes.

>find NES FF1 hosted in a browser
>start up all monk team
>5 Goblins
>GOBLIN GOT A CRITICAL HIT
>15 damage off of the bat
>attack Goblin
>1 damage
>x2 hit = 2 damage
>x2 hit = 2 damage
>x2 hit = 2 damage
>Goblin attacks
>7 Damage!

Man this is rough

>>6377949
welcome to real rpgs buddy. if you tried to march out of your village with a wimpy brass sword and some nunchucks i think you'd get your shit rocked by a couple goblins irl too desu.

play wizardry

>>6377980
That was before I equipped them
Somehow I did even less? damage with nunchucks. Went from doing x2 hits for 1 damage each to doing just 1 hit for 1 damage

>>6365695
Because video games can only simulate numbers while table top can simulate anything the DM and players can come up with. Every JRPG character/class boils down to how effectively they can add/subtract numbers from an enemy's hp, and martials characters are almost always on par with magic users for how much damage they can do. Considering most JPRGs don't even have a skill system let alone a wholly interactive world, magic users don't dominate because in DND most of the caster superiority lies in being able to complete any task with a spell whether it's opening a locked door, creating a bridge over a chasm, or turning everyone invisible, as well as completely shutting down most enemy's abilities to do anything with save or die/suck spells like Hold Person or Banishment, battlefield control spells like Acid Fog or Darkness, or bypassing social encounters or puzzles with things like Charm and Invisibility.

In DND adding/subtracting numbers from an enemy is just one tiny facet of the system. The only video game RPGs that come close are Elder Scrolls where even with magic being limited to damage, healing, stat boost, and crude world interaction like invisibility or flying, magic users are infinitely better than pure martials.

Doesn't the Origins version fix Nasir's oversights?

>>6377949
>>6377985
Monks are weird in that some levels they do more with their fists while other levels weapons are the way to go. If you are playing the pure NES version there's a bug where you need to look at your character status to update any new information when they level up.

I get why people love the feeling of playing the original but FF1 NES is so buggy in so many ways it's hard to keep track of all of them.

>>6378010
A fighter/master can one-shot Chaos with a simple Haste+Saber buffing, though. Hard to do that with even a knight at really high levels with a masamune.

>>6377992
Its more like a long term design oversight.
The idea is that the Martial Class hits stuff, hard.
The skillmonkey class skill stuff hard.
And the magic class magics hard.

But then came editions and revisions and Gygax, so eventually the magic classes became better skillmonkeys than skillmonkeys, and better at hitting stuff than martials.
3,5 is the epitome of this. Cleric and Druid is the Jack of All Trades, Master of all skills. Meanwhile Wizard sorta suck until level 5, where it starts scaling.
Metagaming only makes the gap larger.
You know your metagame is balanced when the first skillmonkey class is Tier 3 and so is the first Martial class.

>>6378018
I mean my statement doesn't contradict that. Just saying until the end part of the game you will be switching between weapon and fists throughout the game. And because of the NES bug of leveling you will need to keep going into their status screen to make sure everything updates correctly.

Warrior is easy in that because it's all gear based you just hand everything down when you get a new piece of loot. Or if you happen to have the money buy a new weapon. That's kind of why people love the 4 Warrior run because there's no real fussiness with it.

>>6377997
I think it was an interview with Romero but he mentioned nasir had used to use punch cards but one day something happened (i dont remember what) and his cards got all messed up so he would just memorize all the programs he wrote. Guy is insanely gifted actually a shame he doesnt program still

>>6378010
>I get why people love the feeling of playing the original but FF1 NES is so buggy in so many ways it's hard to keep track of all of them.

The basic scheme of grinding to gain strength until you surmount any obstacle, combined with the absurdly overpowered magic items (heal staff etc.), removes importance from those bugs. It's hard to keep track of them yes, but you don't have to keep track of them so who cares? The one "bug" that matters the most by far is easy to keep track of because there's only one of it, and it is this, a bug in the game's basic design: This game uses a standard experience leveling system that lets you trade time for in-game power. That's the bug that most needs fixing. Fix that and then the others will start to actually matter. It's also the bug that tunnel-vision'd dorks on the Internet don't generally bother to even consider fixing, because they are stupid. Their work should generally be ignored, and the game should either be taken as it originally was (barring English-language localization) or fixed PROPERLY. (And the effort to fix it properly would probably be better directed at simply creating a new game from scratch.)

>>6378032
what's that chart?

>>6377949
You get 300 gold to start with. Go buy some wooden armor and nunchucks. Stop wearing armor after level 4 and stop using weapons after level 8.

>>6369272
Astos? MO' LIKE YO' ASS IS TOAST!

Chad loadout coming through beep beep

>>6379847
Have fun with no money.

>>6379847
>not BIG FAT RED BALS to keep the BALS meme going

>>6365694
Based, and theater pilled.

>>6365695
>magic was like half the rule book
A lot of that shit is very contextual.

>>6379401
A chart.

>>6365665

>bosses easy

Are you playing the original?

>>6377997
Why have I never heard of this man before? He sounds amazing!

>>6378056
>punch-card misfortune
Romero had something like that happen to him when he was a kid just starting out in programming, he had been writing some little game on punch cards for a computer at a local university, going back and forth from there and home every day, he'd just wrap that stack of cards on the rack on his bike with string.
One day he hits a bump with his bike and goes flying, and so does his program, all those punch-cards scattering on the wet and muddy ground, his reaction being "Well fuck, time to move on to a new project then."

>>6380830
go on.

>top tire
F/F/F/RM, F/F/F/WM
>almost top tire
F/F/F/F, F/F/RM/WM
>forced diversity but still good tire
F/F/TH/RM, F/F/TH/WM, F/F/BB/RM, F/F/BB/WM
>a little too much forced diversity tire
F/BB/RM/WM, F/TH/RM/WM
>obsolete tire
black mage

I base these observations on almost nothing

>>6380861
He's right, by the time you get yourself strong enough to survive the entire dungeon without succumbing to attrition the boss is a pushover every time.

>>6381878

There are two FF1 versions though. One version, the monsters and bosses are easier.

The original NES version things are much harder.

>>6381826
>I base these observations on almost nothing
Very based honestly.

>>6382091
I'm speaking of the original NES version.

Has anyone here ever done a FF1 solo run?

I was thinking about giving solo Redmage a try...

>>6365695
Two reasons. The first is that the skill/proficiency system is absolutely terrible, and mages get to largely bypass it because they have a spell that does the thing for them without them needing to worry about putting points into whatever. Why bother learning languages when you can magically translate anything as a tier 0 spell, or with slight of hand when the majority of your cantrips are even better than a passed slight of hand check?
The second is that wizards have too many tools. Spell Lists sell expansions, and adventuring gear don't - the large majority of new shop items are high level equips, wands, and scrolls, not a new spin on the 10 foot pole, rope, and other useful items for martials. Casters, especially vanilla wizards, can expect to assemble a slew of spells with valuable in- and out-of-combat utility with each expansion, while specific martials will only see value in whatever expansion mentions their class.

>>6382091
>There are two FF1 versions

>>6366870
The thief has access to the secret ability Dirt Nap. It boosts the exp gain of everyone that isn't the thief

>>6383440
Family Computer version?
I just looked over at the Wikipedia page(which is useless), but I assume its Famicom -> MSX and Family Computer Updates -> Wonder Swan version -> Ports based on Wonderswan like GBA and PS1 -> iOS/Android version
Which means there are what... 4 versions of FF1?

>>6383551
NES
PSX
WonderSwan which was ported to GBA
PSP is pretty much WonderSwan/GBA with added stuff
iOS/Android which I think is just the PSP version.

If it's like MSX Dragon Quest there's not really enough difference outside of music and color. The stats and other things are still the same (unless they fixed the bugs in the MSX version).

>>6383589
Isn't PSX and Wonderswan the same version?

>>6383592
Looked it up and you are right. For some reason I thought PSX was it's own thing and when they did that WonderSwan version that was the base for all other versions but I was wrong.

>>6383592
PS1 has a bunch of extra options compared to WSC such as kanji text, easy mode or save on quit.

>>6383440
jap release has the same bugs as the us one, right?

>>6383670
Outside of name and graphical changes (Beholder became Eye, church became healing temple, ect) the games are pretty much the same.

>>6383387
A solo run just sounds grindy and frustrating. There are so many instant kill spells and abilities in the game and they're all obnoxiously effective.

>>6384043
>A solo run just sounds grindy and frustrating
>grindy

In a solo run your EXP isn't being shared among four party members, so you level up four times as quickly. Also, doesn't a Ribbon protect you against instant death shenanigans?

>>6384376
>In a solo run your EXP isn't being shared among four party members, so you level up four times as quickly.
Fair, but how many extra levels will you need to make up for having 75% less of an HP pool?

>doesn't a Ribbon protect you against instant death shenanigans?
It helps, but it's not perfect and you can still die from it. You also don't get the first ribbon until more than halfway through the game.

>>6384385
>how many extra levels will you need to make up for having 75% less of an HP pool?
well the first member of your party already takes 50% of single-target attacks anyway, so in practice your solo character will have a 50% survivability rate, rather than 25%.

Solo Redmage probably means running from most fights. And using magic to kill large groups of weaker enemies. Damn, now I wanna try this.

potions x99

>>6384652
You should do potions x99 regardless of party.
Its one of the easiest cheese strats in the game.
Speedruns tend to do it as well.

>>6384705
I went through the game without expendables aside from poison remover and golden needles.

>>6384652
i mean if you like mashing A for 5 minutes after every dungeon dive sure

>>6385043
>mashing
Turbo buttons, bro.

>>6385043
not like i had much of a choice while inside the dungeon