/vr/ - Retro Games

yeah that is the general thing i hear about it, seemed fun when it was loaded on a computer at compusa

>>6352746
liked, shared and subscribed.
awesome blog!

>>6352756
passive aggressiveness is for women

>>6352746
the biggest shame about this game is how spongy every enemy is. you won't find anything nearly as satisfying as blowing fodder away with the shotty in doom

>>6352746
Don't feel bad saying it. It definitely does have better level design than Doom. Only issue is it doesn't have anywhere near the modding support Doom has and the weapons although fun aren't as great as the weapon sandbox of Doom. Here is how I'd break the games down, remember its just an opinion here.

Heretic
>better level design
>better music (Doom is still close though)
>the starting weapon is more useful
>items you manually use give the game some variety, something Doom could have benefited from

Doom
>better weapons
>more iconic enemies
>pretty much all weapons are good outside of the pistol
>the gore is better
>Doomguy is a better protagonist

If Heretic had the modding support Doom has, it would probably be the better game.

These fucks scared me so much as a kid, their attacks are also obnoxious (in a good way)

>>6352850
But it does, GZDoom only has the name "Doom" in it, but it has Heretic code since the engine of the game was written on top of Doom's, which made it easy to unify it into a single engine running all of them, which has been the case since ZDoom 2.0, maybe earlier. There is also Chocolate-Heretic.

>>6352862
Glad I wasn't the only one...

>>6352850

>better level design
I always found the levels to be much more abstract and tedious. They tended to feel bigger, but had less flow/cohesion.

>better music
I can't think of anything as iconic as e.g. Doom's E1M1 or E1M9. Do you have any pieces in particular that stand out to you?

>starting weapon is more useful
They're almost identical, discounting the Tome of Power.

>inventory items
I always felt this was a bit of a mixed blessing, largely because I tend to hoard and it takes some extra bindings to deal with inventory management. Portable healing was pretty damn great though.

>modding support
I have to assume you mean "support" in the sense of "community support", as it should be known to you that Heretic is running on the Doom engine. If that's the case, yeah, Heretic does get overlooked a lot because of the the balance of the enemies vs the weapons, iirc.

Check out "Heretical Doom" though -- it's everything fun about Heretic's weapons/monsters cranked up to 11.

>>6352771
This, plus the weapons weren't that interesting without powering them up. The dragon claw and the hellstaff are way too similar in their base form, and the firemace feels like a slight variation on the same machinegun-like design.

>>6352771
Doomlets always say this as if Doom didn't have some of the most egregious examples of bullet sponges.

>>6353843
>They're almost identical, discounting the Tome of Power.
Not really, the Elven Wand fire faster, which for a starting weapon makes a big difference.

>>6354112
It is slightly faster, but it also seems to have a wider (or perhaps taller) spread when rapid firing and has slightly more minimum damage potential and slightly less maximum damage potential per hit than the pistol. It really seems to even out pretty well in practice in my experience. I'd say it might have a slight advantage, but that's about it.

>>6352746
Underratted? Possibly. Better level design than Doom? I don't really worship at the "Doom has amazing level design"-altar so I don't know, maybe. I will say however that Heretic gets pretty boring and repetitive after a while, it outstays its welcome (kind of like Ion Maiden), but Doom is fun and interesting to the end.

>>6354152
>but Doom is fun and interesting to the end.
Not Doom 2, though.

>>6354087
which is why I specifically used the words "every enemy" and "fodder"

>>6353843
>Do you have any pieces in particular that stand out to you?
not him but here's my fav
https://youtu.be/iakwDDZn4eQ

>>6353843
>I can't think of anything as iconic as e.g. Doom's E1M1 or E1M9. Do you have any pieces in particular that stand out to you?
Not gonna say it's better or worse than Doom, but I absolutely adore this track:
https://youtu.be/Y_E4Ek8kKnU
Very powerful and climatic, worked really well for the final fight against D'Sparil.

>>6354174
I also give it credit for actually bring original, most of doom's ost is straight to plagiarism

>>6354157
This is the only one that ever spontaneously comes to mind for me. I suppose that makes it arguably iconic in a sense. Very good choice.

>>6354174
I was going to say it wasn't as intense as the one leading up to the cyberdemon fight, but after replaying that stage I have to say you're quite right.

>>6354185
It walks a very fine line between tribute and plagiarism, really, but point taken. He did the same thing in Duke Nukem 2 as well, but damned if that opening level's MIDI rendition of "Angry Again" didn't make me smile.

>>6354153
Doom2 is a bit more gimmicky, but I enjoyed it more than Heretic overall. Heretic kind of becomes a slog half way through, for me at least, and I had to force myself to complete it (since I decided to play through all the bigger Doom-like and build-engine games in chronological order a few years back).

>>6352746
Raven's level design is very quirky and specific, and not everyone's cup of tea. Doom's level design is built for speed and aggression, at least most of the time.

Heretic seemed extremely generous with ammo and pickups to the point where it felt like they were used as room decoration. I don't remember ever running out of ammo on even the higher skill settings.

>>6354259
Seems like you never played episode 5

Think we will ever get a port of Heretic or Hexen on a platform like Xbox One? I actually like what they have done with the rereleases of Doom 1, 2, 3 and 64, after they patched the issues in 1 and 2 they are pretty much perfect ports and have support for custom wads though only ones curated and added by Bethesda, so far stuff like Sigil and Double Impact.

I know licensing would be totally different I am just saying this is clearly a viable model and people including myself would buy them.

>>6352746
why does that skeleton have a wig on?

>>6354416
Because it's fucking based

>>6354437
even in death the bald are still concerned with how they look

It's got some clever maps that utilize the new features they added to the engine, and most feel like a good mix of abstract and an actual location, so it's a shame that the weapons and general sound design are the way they are, because if they were punchier, then this might've been my favorite game on the doom engine.

Is It just me or does the strong blue in the game make it look really ugly? The game is fine and getting to be a flying wizard raining death in dudes is great fun, but overall the game never felt as satisfying to play as Doom.

I like Hexen more than Doom, but I don't think Heretic has better level design than Doom at all. I still remember the first act of Doom and I haven't played it since the early 2000s. I've never been able to get through Heretic, I lose interest after a few levels.

>>6352746
it is..but i got lost in heretic quite a lot unless im just retarded

>>6354382
It's a possibility, you're right that these kind of rereleases are really popular and usually do well in sales. I am not sure how the licensing would work though

>all of episode 3
It's just so good.

>>6355626
I absolutely love the aesthetic of e3, can't think of anything similar either

>>6355703
Episode 1 of Amid Evil gave me similar vibes.

>>6355732
Amid Evil is really really good.

>>6355738
Agreed.

The problem was that magic is fucking gay. Put some machine guns in there and it would be way better.
Hexen? Lol no. Ultra gay

>>6356910
>The problem was that magic is fucking gay.
yet you still became a wizard

>>6355746
>that Knee-Deep in the Dead intermission screen in the Celestial Claw
Neat.

>>6352746
I agree, Heretic is better than Doom in every way, it's just that people expect it to play like Doom, but the gameplay loop is pretty different. I would say Heretic's more "tactical", it puts more ephasis on crowd control and movement than Doom because you have a lot of tanky mid-tier enemies that you can't dispose of as easily and you constantly have to avoid getting swarmed.
I may be in the minority here, but I don't care for enemy variety at all, if I feel like the encounters themselves are good.
For me it goes Hexen (idk why but I never had trouble getting lost, apart from when I was a kid and couldn't read lol) > Heretic > Ultimate Doom > Doom 2 > HEXDD (respawning EVERY SINGLE TYPE OF ENEMY and no new assets, potentially lore-breaking, I give up at Sump because I'm tired of slogging through 10.000 Stalkers)
>>6352862
Same, most iconic enemy in any game for me.
>>6354732
I think otherwise so I must call you a tasteless pleb.
>>6355626
I agree, pure kino through and through. E2 was really cool as well.

>>6354143
It uses different ammo from the Claw, while the pistol and chaingun share the same pool.

>>6357634
>the Dragon Claw's firing sound effect

>>6354764
I think Activision would have rights, since they bought out Raven. Maybe one of these days Nightdive will hit them up.

>>6357641
one of my favorite sound effects in vidya, it's so visceral

*D_RUNNIN starts playing*

>>6354437
Based? based on what?

>>6352771
I don't think it's true, the only spongy enemy was the minotaur stuff, the rest felt pretty standard.
The gib animation of the fodders are so satisfying in Heretic no matter what weapon you use.

>>6354362
And also E4E1. That map was the worst offender for being ammo starved.

I am playing on nightmare and holy fuck chapter 4 is hard

I also had to give up on pistol starting D'Isparil E2 end boss. Too hard.

>>6359505
D'Sparil is the best 90s FPS final boss.

>>6359495
it didn't feel like it had any fodder beside the gargoyles. I wish the crossbow would consistently one-shot the golems at least, like the shotty can take out 2-3 zombiemen in one shot

I'm trying to figure out why despite playing the fuck out of Heretic I could never get into Hexen.

>>6363281
Because Hexen is a very different game from Heretic. Despite being Heretic's sequel it doesn't really play the same, shifting the focus from fighting to exploration and key/switch hunting.

>>6363281
Don't worry about it, just enjoy heretic.

>>6363281
Because just as >>6363291 said, it's a totally different game. It's dark, ominous and complex, which might not be for everyone. But if this is what you're looking for, there's no other game like it. An underrated masterpiece.

>>6352746
Herretic is a slightly newer game on the same basic engine. It logically should be an improvement. it would be embarrassing to not be better.

>>6363304
In a perfect world that would be the case. But as we know, 99% of FPS are worse than Doom.

>>6353684
can tell me of some good heretic wads, ive been playing gzdoom for a little bit and now that i know there is heretic mods, im interested.

>tfw we'll never get Hecatomb

>>6352746
I'm playing through Heretic for the first time right now, I enjoyed the first 3 episodes but the last 2 haven't felt as great, maybe it's just missing the "You are here!" screen between levels, but they have still had some great levels in them>>6352753
>>6352753
. I'm enjoying most of the weapons, but I would have liked them to feel a little different than their Doom counterparts, but at least the ethereal crossbow and firemace feel kind of new, even if the latter isn't so great. I have to ask, what's up with the iron lich whirlwind attack? It just seems obnoxious, lasts for ages (like 10-20 seconds?) and can just ruin your day if you are fighting in a confined space (which happens a fair amount), is there a way to dispell it early or something or a better way of avoiding it outside of running aorund in circles?

Oops, screwed up my previous post, let's try again. I'm playing through Heretic for the first time right now, I enjoyed the first 3 episodes but the last 2 haven't felt as great, maybe it's just missing the "You are here!" screen between levels, but they have still had some great levels in them . I'm enjoying most of the weapons, but I would have liked them to feel a little different than their Doom counterparts, but at least the ethereal crossbow and firemace feel kind of new, even if the latter isn't so great. I have to ask, what's up with the iron lich whirlwind attack? It just seems obnoxious, lasts for ages (like 10-20 seconds?) and can just ruin your day if you are fighting in a confined space (which happens a fair amount), is there a way to dispell it early or something or a better way of avoiding it outside of running around in circles?

>>6363559
Raven went out of their way to make the bosses do multiple things, unlike Doom's. The Iron Lich has some sort of elemental magic gimmick going on, with the firewall/ice ball/whirlwind attacks, two of those being brand new mechanics to the engine. Basically, they wanted to try new things. You can't avoid or dispel it but you can use it to jump up to higher areas or even sequence break.

>>6363281
all the backtracking in hexen is what made me drop it

>Nacho sweats profusely, struggles to smile and stares at you for 5 seconds before mustering a response to whatever you said
lmao how did nobody figure this goober out