/vr/ - Retro Games

no, theres no proof thats the way they intended.
it looks better as is

>>6319304
They had an opportunity to fix it with the shindou edition and they didn't.
So it was already working as intended.

>>6319304
What the hell there is only 120 stars in that game

>>6319304
the developers shipped it, so that's what they intended

>>6319318
>>6319335
>>6319346
>Open /actors/burn_smoke/model.inc.c
>On line 47, change the reference “G_IM_FMT_RGBA” to “G_IM_FMT_IA”
>At build time, this will compile the texture into IA16 format (correct) instead of RGBA16 (incorrect).
It was always supposed to be like that, they literally just formatted the texture wrong on accident, simple as that. An overlook so minor that it's probably why it wasn't fixed in the re-releases.
They actually did fix it in the DS version

>>6319346
Games ship with bugs that go unfixed all the time, doesn’t mean they were “intended” retard.

>>6319318
>>6319346
>Texture errors don't happen
You guys retarded or something?

>Includes O2 compression that reduces lag
NOPE
The developers INTENDED for every single lag point.
Bowser's Sub is supposed go into the single digits FPS, it's supposed to make the player be in awe and look away from Bowser's glorious battleship.

>>6319373
ds version is crap and you still didnt provide proof its not done on purpose

>>6319373
none of the original devs worked on DS version

>>6319410
Why would they have it be a mess of jumbled black textures when they had the smoke texture made? It was done on accident, retard

ITT: literal retards who think Nintendo doesn’t have a long history of shipping bugged games

>>6319410
>you still didnt provide proof its not done on purpose
Why would they format the texture wrong on purpose? It's obvious that it was just a mistake, texture errors slipped though in a lot of early 3D games

>>6319439
because the "smoke texture" looks terrible and an obvious repeating texture

the shipped version looks way better as it blends with previous frames of the texture from all angles. next time i interview miyamoto ill ask him to confirm

>>6319451
>Why would they format the texture wrong on purpose
they didnt, they formatted it right and you're pretending it was wrong

>>6319456
IF THEY FORMATTED IT RIGHT WHY DOES A PERFECTLY GOOD SMOKE TEXTURE EXIST THAT FITS PERFECTLY WITH THE ANIMATION YOU ACTUAL AUTIST

Good grief are you thick.

>>6319456

>>6319479
its not perfect, it clearly looks worse in the direct comparison image you dolt

>>6319502
Different Anon, but It doesn't matter which one you think looks better, doesn't change the fact that the right image has the proper texture formatting

>>6319502
Left looks like the spray-can tool in paint. Right looks like cartoon smoke.

>>6319318
>>6319335
>>6319346
>>6319410
>>6319456
>>6319502
Retard

>>6319603
>proper

no its not, not when it looks worse. unless you have evidence Nintendo did this by mistake

>>6319373
>It was always supposed to be like that
nice head canon, how do you know?

>>6319805
Because that is how it was released and they never bothered to fix it with later revisions.

>>6319304
Right looks like Mario is farting.

>>6319318
>>6319335
>>6319346
/thread
They liked how it looked, end of story. The "bugged" version is the finished version.
It may have "intended" to have been properly implemented at one point, but THE final version is the proper version. If you think they playtested the final build and somehow derped and didn't fucking notice, you literally need help putting on your underwear in the morning. The puffy graphics look terrible and too repetitive anyway.

>>6320004
Nintendo probably didn't notice. Mario 64 is such a rushed hackjob they had to scrap over half the game they had before they shipped it. They literally delayed the N64 a year just for the game.

>>6319335
brainlet argument
nintendo has had like 3 opportunities to fix the brick glitch in Mario All-Stars and they haven't, they are just kinda lazy sometimes

>>6319441
>ITT: literal retards who think Nintendo doesn’t have a long history of shipping bugged games

Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmzyO2fYyCs
>The Spiny eggs are thrown by Lakitu in a simple way, with no horizontal movement whatsoever. However, this is notthe intended behavior, and is actually the result of a bug! The eggs are supposed to be thrown out relative to the player’s speed, Lakitu’s speed, the player’s position, and a pseudo-random value, as well as bounce off of any blocks or walls that they hit on the way down.

How can I apply this and the framerate speedup fix at the same time?

>>6320205
>that fucking bank shot
I don't know which attack pattern would have scared me more as a kid.

>>6320218
>How can I apply this and the framerate speedup fix at the same time?
They updated the smoke fix to also include the reduced lag/O2 compression patch
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5008/

>>6319318
>>6319335
>>6319346
>>6319410
>>6319456
>>6319502
no wonder /vr/ is shit nowadays, people like this are contrarian for the sole purpose of arguing on the internet kek

>>6319318
I hate the "well I liked it better that way so end of discussion" type of arguments but as a person who never grew up with Mario 64, don't care enough to play it at all even now and lack any kind of bias whatsoever, I guess say the way it ended up being before it got "fix" look way better imo. Call it a happy accident. With that said it is subjective even for a unbiased person such as myself. There is really no right answer to this, just the answer the person playing the game choose for themselves. I don't think there can be a real debate about it. It be like telling someone their favorite color is somehow wrong. It is subjective, there is literally no objective fact you can give it.

I don't get burned

>>6320334
This is a far more worthwhile debate than the 'developer's intention' one.
For what it's worth I prefer the look of it without the patch as well but I think the patched blurry smoke fits the games' aesthetic more.

>>6319868
>>6320004
>>6319502
Dear amazing retard,
We know that thanks to a recently discovered bug, Lakitu and Spiniest in Super Mario Brothers haven’t been behaving as intended since 1985. There is precedent for Nintendo not fixing their bugs and not even recognizing they are bugs.
P.S. Cope.

>>6320365
>Spiniest
*Spinies
And I forgot the link: https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_Bros.#Unused_Spiny_Egg_Behavior

Wow. This is the definition of white people problems.

>>6320370
Correction, autistic white people.

>>6320302
says the guy claiming shit without proof

>>6319304
That depends. Do the devs approve or disprove of BLJ?

>>6320334
thats the point, Op is claiming for sure he knows what the devs intended, and its just a selfish lie. nobody knows until Nintendo confirms

>>6319304
https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_64_(Nintendo_64)/Unused_Objects#Trapdoor_Sound

PATCH
IT
BACK
IN
for reals

purity: playing as developers shipped
purity plus: playing as developer intended

so in actuality, in fighting for "purity", you're just fighting for a worse vision of the game they never intended...you are therefore, double plus ungood!

>>6320405
Case in point.

Put aside the autism, and there's 2 options. Either they fucked up and couldn't fix it in time, which is completely reasonable, or they fucked up, and liked the way it looked so kept it that way, which is also reasonable.
We'll probably never know, so just enjoy it the way you want. Whichever looks good to you is the correct choice.

Could also just be an error followed by a total oversight.
Since it literally is seconds of work to correct and none of the revisions caught it, possibly also because the smoke doesn't look all that obviously bugged, that is the most likely scenario.

Nice, it looks much better now.

>>6320484
>Whichever looks good to you is the correct choice.
Patched version is correct, centrist faggot

>>6320694
>a fan patch is the correct way because I said so

>>6320004
So the glitch where you can inexplicably die in the final level of this game was completely intended? It never got fixed, after all, so clearly that means the devs didn't want you to finish the game and intended for the game to kill you off randomly at this part.

Or how about this. Clearly the developers intended you to be able to do the doghouse glitch and skip yourself to later parts of the game, it was kept in the DX rerelease after all. Just because it's not in the remake doesn't count because it's not the same developers.

>>6321094
>>6321115
Shit, FF6 was a horribly broken glitched mess of a game that there's different fixed versions on the fucking Super Nintendo and it STILL doesn't scratch the surface for all the things wrong with the code of that mess.

>>6319304
SOUL SOULLESS

>>6320369
Unused is different from bugged.
Eliminating a function was often risky back in the day as that may break something else, so it was way easier and a common practice to just left things as it and just prevent the function from executing.

>>6321264
The spiny behavior is unused as a result of a bug, though, or so TCRF claims.
https://tcrf.net/Bugs:Super_Mario_Bros..
This page explains how it's bugged.

>>6319304
>roms
Oh no.....sweetie no.....

>>6319304
>as the developers intended
as a dev, I'll leave shit in all the time despite it being the direct result of a bug if it ends out working out in a good way
happy accidents

No no, you don't get it, the bug was SUPPOSED to be there. They went to the effort for you not to experience it the correct way, game devs are not capable of shipping products with mistakes.

>>6321302
there is no way to know if it was intentional or not without asking the programmers themselves.

>>6321771
Of course, every glitch a game is shipped with was intentional, see:
>>6321094
>>6321115
>>6321713

I always thought the people yapping about "intended experiences" are just trolling.

Or are you telling me some tards actually bought crap like NES Mini or PS1 Mini or whatever it was called just because they were official "intended" releases by Nintendo and Sony? Looool, just emulate like normal people.

>>6321843
>Laugh Out Out Out Out Loud, just play games illegally like normal people

Love that this faggot keeps getting to post these threads and they stay up and 6th gen is still against the rules

>>6322464
If you want your 6th gen garbage shitting up and overtaking /vr/ then just say so (and be rightfully ignored), rather than making some bizarre comparison which makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.

>>6322501
The 6th gen rebellion grows larger by the day. Majority rules, bitch. Get ready.

>>6322501
People still talk about 3rd and 4th generation games despite 5th generation being allowed.

Yeah nah /vr/ won't become /ps2/, you'll get your own barren 6th gen board and you can dwell there.

>>6320053
No no that means the brick glitch was intentional!

>>6321306
What do you think is inside of your cartridge?
>>6322530
6th gen will never be allowed on this board. Change happens much more slowly than you think. And if change ever happened, you would already have moved on and not care anymore or died, little zoomie.
There are plenty of places for you to discuss 6th gen on the internet. This board will never be one of them. But cry your delicious tears, it's fun to watch you meltdown.

>>6323215
Tbh it’d be a lot better than this shithole.

Is this gonna be the new "The sky in SMB is actually <color>!"?

>>6320205
That's really cool.

>>6323241
>>6323215
Honestly it's seem that you are complaining more the people that the 6th genfags because you don't feel a personal nostalgia for a generation.

>>6319479

because games never ship with unused assets in the files, right?

>>6323241
>6th gen will never be allowed on this board
Dreamcast, PC games, retroports, mods.

>Honestly it's seem that you are complaining more the people that the 6th genfags
It doesn't, no.
And again, 6th gen - brought up for zero reason in this thread by some strange individual - will never be on /vr/.

Unintended errors such as this, creating fundamentally faulty games, drive original cart values down
ROM hackers are careless and don't consider us collectors

>>6323790
Collectors aren't owed value, eat shit

cringe thread big oof

>>6319304
It is amazing that the mistake went unnoticed for nearly 24 years. Also interesting that legit carts can't properly play all the code on real N64s. Another win for emulators.

>>6324708
>Also interesting that legit carts can't properly play all the code on real N64s.
Huh?

>>6319453
do you often talk to miyamoto?

>>6324714
Original non-modified Mario 64 cartridges playing on an original N64 cannot display the smoke properly, while emulators can display it properly, and Everdrives don't count.

>>6323790
>Unintended errors such as this, creating fundamentally faulty games, drive original cart values up
ftfy

>>6324723
I see. It's not that the cartridge has code that the N64 can't execute, it just can't be modified.

I wonder if it'd be possible with a gameshark code.

>>6324742
>I wonder if it'd be possible with a gameshark code.
It seems like it could be possible. Good thinking.
Gamesharks also also allow one to play Japanese N64 carts on American N64s.

>>6319304
>>6319373
Or they designed it that way, made a typo, and decided it looked better that way so they left it alone.

>>6321553
you get it.
>>6320484
option B.
>>6319451
>Why would they format the texture wrong on purpose
Because they did it accidentally but decided "You know, that actually looks better than what I'd originally planned. Let's do that instead."
>>6319381
The facts that the game is as polished as it is, and was obviously play-tested, and was a launch first party N64 title, all indicate that it was probably intentionally left that way after a happy accident.

>>6319304
Does anybody have the first version of the patches for US and JP which don't include the O2-optimization?

>The original clearly looks worse
>"Happy accident"
No.

>>6324959
No u

>>6324931
I can make you some since we have source code.
One minute.

>>6323748
6th gen is 20 years old now. 5th gen was only 16 years old when this board was opened. 6th gen is retro now whether you like it or not.

>>6324848
>>6324868
if they decided it looked better, why does mario kart 64 smoke look like the fixed version instead of the release version?

>>6324990
IDK, maybe it's because Mario Kart 64 is a _different fucking game_ than Super Mario 64.

>>6324972
It'll be more than one minute; gotta build qemu-irix from source code.
I'll be back eventually™, though, with your build.
I personally prefer the particle smoke, whether it's wrong or a happy accident.

>>6324992
weak-ass excuse, it's still a mario game

>>6325005
Counter:
So is Mario is Missing.
And Super Mario Bros. 2 in the US.

>>6325005
>it's still a mario game

>>6325025
yes, and those games' artstyles are consistent with mainline mario games despite being spin-offs

>>6325030
Paper Mario.
Super Mario RPG.
Fuck off.

>>6325090
Super Mario RPG inspired Super Mario 64's artstyle and Paper Mario takes after Yoshi's Island

>>6325025
SMB2 was originally pitched as a Mario game anyways, so this whole Doki Doki argument was always moot.

>>6319304
This is the dumbest fucking thing to come from the decompilation.
So of course it's the thing to get media attention.

>>6325287
>pitched as a mario game
I'm sure lots of things we don't call "mario" were pitched as mario games.
Commander Keen was originally going to be a Mario 3 PC port. Would you call that Mario?

Comments in the source code file in question:
// //! Wrong texture format. Called as rgba16, which makes the burn smoke appear
// as a transparent black burn smoke. Probably meant to show up as white-ish
// burn smoke, but mistakened for being intended as black smoke.
So even OP's pic is wrong possibly.
>>6324931
>Does anybody have the first version of the patches for US and JP which don't include the O2-optimization?
Linux user here, I'll save the day by doing you windozefags' dirty work for you.
Compiled myself, but didn't test to the point that I could find smoke because I honestly like how it is in the official release and don't want to play it with the keyboard on my laptop. It does work and I got four stars in it though (in an old-ish version of mupen64plus I already had on here).
US version only. You want the JP version, you make it.
https://anonfile.com/vf51K0naoe/smokio64.us_z64

>>6325847
whoops, forgot this isn't /g/ where [code] works.

>>6320365
Spic .

>>6325810
Yes

>>6326094
OK; Retard confirmed, then.

>>6319304
SOUL
SOULLESS

>>6319304
The fact they didn't catch this because of the notoriously bad N64 output coupled with "muh totally necessary AA" makes it even more hilarious, and further proof you could literally use broken assets and not even devs could tell their game apart.

>>6326534
>"muh totally necessary AA"

>he's still spreading misinfo that the N64's AA is a screen-blurring effect instead of an edge smoother

no but i patched it for 60 fps, widescreen and analogue camera though. it's sexy

>>6319603
It's proper sure, but I still like the spray-can version more.
>>6320260
Where? I'm not seeing it bounce off anything.

>>6325107
How so?
(The former at least)

>>6324972
>>6324996
>>6325847
tybg, love you long time

>>6326550
SotE's polygons do not jump around like that on a cart.

>>6319479
I've been in game development for over 20 years and the number of 3D games I've worked on which intentionally misuse texture formats for special/particle effects is: pretty much all of them.

>>6320004
>They liked how it looked, end of story. The "bugged" version is the finished version.

Ya, fucking... probably. Total fluke mistakes happening which you end up liking more than what you were intending to do is EXTREMELY common in development.

>>6327747
Okay, RPer.

>>6322501
>>6323215
Why are you faggots so scared of 6th gen? If people truly didn't care about disusing that era than there is no risk of flooding.

>>6319304
Has anyone made a patch that fixes everything?
It's been found out that Dire Dire Docks lagging can be fixed too by changing the kind of object the sub is or something.

>>6328375
What the fuck do you think >>6325847 is? Are you fucking retarded?

>>6321094
Can it, you pedantic prick. Obtuse, game breaking bugs aren't the same as stylistic decisions that have merely been commented out and left that way.

>>6320004
>NOOOOOO I don't want there to be a good reason for zoomies to download an objectively better version of the ROM and play it rather than buying my original cart off ebay

>>6319387
Sonic Adventure had a ton of really big texture errors. Two that I remember are after Gamma gets the frog some of the frogs have the textures applied totally wrong and in the cutscene with Gamma looking at Beta.

>>6328375
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4905/

>>6327719
It's based on a recording of real hardware, so I'm guessing it's just a rare glitch.

>>6328552
>Nintendo in charge of optimizing their own games

no wonder n64 games from certain second and third parties looked much better than anything nintendo themselves made

>>6328554
>It's based on a recording of real hardware
>it's just a rare glitch
Are you 100% certain that was done with a cart inside a real N64? I've played that game until I nearly knocked out an original PSU for the N64 and I have never seen any level glitch like that. Oddly enough, I have seen that exact behavior when the ROM is played on an emulator. Funny that.

>>6328563
It's from Digital Foundry and they claimed it was all recorded off a real N64

>>6328563
This webm is from a DF Retro video
https://youtu.be/mznc8dhijTo?t=769
They're a channel that have the time and money to have a capture card on real hardware.
Be weird for them to use an emulator, especially when the whole point of the episode is "How did SotE run on native hardware"

>>6328572
So it's just some guy who spams lots of videos and sees what sticks for the best views and ad dollars. Nice. So it's from an emulator. 1000:1 they lied if they're claiming it's from a real N64;etc. That popping just does not appear during original gameplay.

>>6328575
>Be weird for them to use an emulator
Nah, it would make everything easier and simpler to pick and choose what you wanted to show, as opposed to real gameplay that, while cool, does nothing but hinder those kinds of things.
What's weird is that they chose to lie.

t. former youtuber

>>6328581
Dilate, you mentally ill tranny. Your favorite piece of plastic isn't a perfect as you though.

>>6328581
>>6328591
No emulator which isn't pixel perfect supports the kind of old-school edge anti-aliasing that the N64 uses, so your conspiracy theory is literally impossible.

>>6328591
>t. former youtuber
That doesn't really mean anything. There's nobody else on the level of DF for technical analysis videos. Nobody else is autist enough to pixel count 1800p or 1638p games.

>>6328592
Your phony channel sucks, and you didn't quite fool everyone with your lame lie.
Nigger.

>>6328595
>No emulator which isn't pixel perfect supports the kind of old-school edge anti-aliasing that the N64 uses
LOL!
>I know all the emulators; shaders; and all tools that exist

They were using Project64 (pretty based, actually). Can't fool me, sweaty. ;)

>>6328597
>it's impossible to perceive typical emu glitches
lmao

>>6328603
>Project 64
>edge anti-aliasing

>>6328608
Whatever. I have a Windows XP PC that plays SotE near-perfectly on P64. Like DF's video.

>>6328612
Is your Windows XP PC also in a Nintendo 64 case with the original cartridge plugged in?

>>6328616
Look, if the game were Donkey Kong and for two seconds a naked sprite of Princess Toadstool danced around the screen, you'd rightfully call bullshit on my 100% original hardware arcade game cabinet world record run, but when something obviously caused by iffy emulation appears on another mass-produced and beloved game that I've played to death, I'm just supposed to take a youtuber's word for it. OK.

>>6328560
reminder that SM64 is a launch title and the N64 compiler wasnt perfect at the time. enabling 02 optimization caused the compiler to fuck up on certain parts and made the final executable buggy.

also only one binary wasnt compiled with 02 and the rest were, so literally only dire dire docks gets improved. every other level runs the same

>>6328704
Big Boo's Haunt and Jolly Roger Bay also improve stability with the O2 compression. Unless it's my everdrive fucking with it.
But yeah, screw ups are expected on a launch game on completely new hardware. I'll excuse them for that.
We'll see what happens when OoT gets finished decompiled. If somebody comes out with a quick fix to the frame drops in that game, then we can say Nintendo lacks optimization.

>>6327043
One of the eggs hits the side of a pipe and it bounces off at an appropriate angle.

>>6322405
>muh emulation is illegal ;-;
Shoot yourself, faggot.

Great. Now how do I patch my game? Do I stick the game pak into my computer or something?

>>6329703
Sadly you'll have to put up with the broken* game with unnecessary slowdowns*.

*I should be fair and put forward the counterargument that releasing a game with easily-fixable errors may have been the developer's intention.

>>6329703
Why can't you patch a game?

>>6319304
You bet I did.

>>6328623
>I'm just supposed to take a youtuber's word for it. OK.
You don't have to take his word for it. There's literally video evidence of it being recorded off the N64 in that very same video.

>>6327719
What is cartridge tilting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP5c_MEs9mo

>>6331242
Why does Goldeneye have the best memes out of all shooters?

>obviously a mistake was made during production
>now able to fix it
>no no no its just how the developers intended

>>6331234
>There's literally video evidence of it being recorded off the N64 in that very same video.
Wow the edited video couldn't possible be edited.
Did you know that editing is a thing? To me all this proves is that they used a real N64 at one point, but not for that section. Fair?

https://youtu.be/DYNsuHnnk1A

>>6320004
Or they kept going "Why the fuck doesn't the smoke work right? I implemented it correctly, I know I did. Everything I try doesn't fix it and we only have 2 weeks to ship this fucking thing. Fuck it I guess if nobody notices it it'll be fine."

>>6331301
...ok?

>>6319304
no blue flames are cooler

>>6331324
Seems unlikely given how simple the fix was.

>>6332124

>>6322551
socrates never said that by the way, lol

>>6319387
>You guys retarded or something?
Yes... Yes, they definitely are.

>>6319304
It's cool, but I'm not going to lose sleep over the official release not having it.

>>6319304
Obviously Nintendo fucked up. It's cool that it's been finally fixed.

>>6323790
good

>>6338107
They're wrong anyway. It's the other way around. Carts will always go up. And now that this has been demonstrated on hugely popular game, people will assume all carts are like that, which may be the case to a large degree.
Once again, those with all the marbles win.