/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6312219
2, by far. 1 has its moments and 3 is a mess. I need to play CD more before I say anything about it

>>6312219
Sonic 2 for me also, but it would be Sonic 1 if they made the level design for Marble, Spring, and Labyrinth Zone more like Green Hill. Sonic 1 has the best aesthetic and best emerald system, by which I mean you do not have to stop and collect 50 rings and then find a checkpoint, you can simply make a route through the level that will get you to the goal quick and get you 50 rings for the bonus stage. I always wondered why they dropped Sonic 1's way of getting to a goal ring in favor of having to abruptly end your pace.

>>6312228
If you like Sonic 1 but still prefer 2, then you might as well forget CD. It's essentially a sequel to Sonic 1 in which its exploration elements are emphasized in favor of mastering the physics and levels.

This is the correct order
S3&K > S2 > S&K > S1 > S3 > SCD
Don't (You) me either you know I'm right

>>6312240
But you are wrong.
1>S&K>S2>CD>S3>3&K
Only patricians will understand, though.

>>6312243
I respect any ranking that has S3&K last

>>6312219
>What's the actual best Sonic game?
There's no question that it's S3&K. The best and largest zones, the most characters, and it manages to tell a complete story without a single line of dialogue.
Without lock-on, I would probably agree that it's 2. Sonic 3 is too short, and S&K by itself has no save feature for some reason. That said, 2 feels disjointed and weird, the level order doesn't make sense until Metropolis Zone. One of the coolest zones, Hidden Palace, was cut for some reason. In hindsight, I realize this is because they changed the story of the game completely mid development. But 2 was the first videogame I ever owned, it'll always have a place for me

>>6312219
I liked 2 the most, my beef with 3 is it’s a bit too long. It starts to overstay it’s welcome towards the end and feels like a chore. To be fair metropolis zone feels this way too, but at least the stuff after it is fun again. Then with 1 my beef is it only has 3 fun levels: green hill, spring yard, and star light. The rest are really not fun at all and are at times infuriating. Also the lack of spin dash makes the game feel very sluggish.

>>6312256
oh and I haven’t played CD so I can’t comment on that one

>>6312248
>There's no question that it's S3&K
>>6312246
>I respect any ranking that has S3&K last
>>6312243
>1>S&K>S2>CD>S3>3&K
>>6312236
>Sonic 2 for me also
>>6312228
>2, by far
>>6312219
>For me, it's Sonic 2
>>6312256
>I liked 2 the most
>>6312248
>There's no question
K

>>6312219
My favourite game? Sonic CD (with US soundtrack) and Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I also really like Sonic 1, and while I can respect Sonic 2 I like it the least.

Which game would I say is the best on average? Sonic 3 & Knuckles followed by Sonic 2 (which has the most classic soundtrack and stage design)

>>6312273
the "IMO" is implied
That said, S3&K is objectively a step forward from 2 in every way. Three characters with different moves and playstyles right out of the box; Tails can actually fly and carry Sonic around, why on Earth wasn't this in Sonic 2? The story-telling techniques are better. The graphics are better. The zones are longer, more varied, and more challenging. It has a save feature ffs. Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic 2, but come on.

3&K is my personal favorite. Played through it so, so many times.
2 and 1 are fine.

>>6312287
>why on Earth wasn't this in Sonic 2?
You don't disable Tails in options? Disgusting
>The story-telling techniques are better
Are we still talking about Sonic games?
>The graphics are better
Hideous incongruous mixture of pre-rendered look with poorly-executed pixel art
>More more more more
More isn't a virtue in and of itself

>>6312350
>he disables Tails to make collecting Chaos Emeralds easier
Filthy casual
>Are we still talking about Sonic games?
Yes, S3&K has short segments in between zones to tie them all together, making them feel like they're all part of the same world. In Sonic 2 you go from Emerald Hill, to Chemical Plant, back to wilderness in Aquatic Ruin, and then back to this huge city Casino Night. It makes no sense, it's a hodgepodge of ideas that don't flow in any logical sense.
>Hideous incongruous mixture of pre-rendered look with poorly-executed pixel art
Literally blinded by nostalgia, I love Sonic 2 but you're just being ridiculous.
>More isn't a virtue in and of itself
In this case, it's more AND better in every sense.

>>6312382
>collecting Chaos Emeralds
I never play the bonus stages. They're ugly and boring

>>6312386
I can't even imagine being this plebeian

>>6312219
You chose correctly.

>>6312382
>Literally blinded by nostalgia, I love Sonic 2 but you're just being ridiculous.
Not him, and I think he's exaggerating, but as a kid in 1994 who got Sonic 3 at release, I did think the graphics were weird. On one hand they seemed more impressive and modern, right from the title screen's CGI Sonic model, to the amount of detail in the levels (when Angel Island gets set on fire), but at the same time it was noticeably less colorful and more gritty. Sonic 3 felt like it had a lot of brown, grey, and overall more toned down, less vibrant colors, whereas Sonic 1 and 2 were like a mini acid trip.
Sonic's new sprite was also weird, he looked rounder and his face expression looked less determined/serious than the badass face he has in 1/2/CD.
S&K was a step in the right direction though, with a more diverse color palette, but still not nearly as colorful as Sonic 1.
And by colorful I don't mean the actual amount of colors on screen, but the choice of said colors and the combinations.

>>6312404
It's not about colourful or less colourful for me. It's that Sonic 1 and 2 both look great--tastefully designed and executed art, entirely cohesive--and Sonic 3 looks like cat vomit

>>6312219
Why? Why make a thread if all you’re going to is regurgitate the same disgustingly normie opinion everyone outside of 4chan has? Next you’ll say that Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game. There are so many arguments to be made against Sonic 2 being superior to the two games that followed... it’s just.... why?
>>6312228
>3 is a mess
Bull.

>>6312493
The only people who think 3&K is the best are Sonic fans, and we all know that Sonic fans have shit taste. Your normie bullshit complaint doesn't apply here

>>6312404
>Sonic's new sprite was also weird, he looked rounder and his face expression looked less determined/serious than the badass face he has in 1/2/CD.
Even this is such a normalfag, NPC opinion. I swear you fags must have international meetups every year to discuss what shitty takes you’re going to advance next. I’ve been hearing this one for so many fucking years that I’m convinced it’s why Sonic Mania had the shitty sprite it did instead of the superior Sonic 3 sprite that actually matched Sonic’s design in Sonic 3’s official art. Sonic 2’s sprite doesn’t even have a mouth. Sonic’s hands are too small, his shoes too pointed, and his default standing position two 2-dimensional. Sonic 3’s had more shading, depth, and again, was more accurate to the character design.

>>6312498
>superior Sonic 3 sprite
Napoleon Dynamite, is that you?

>>6312496
>le Sonic fans are shitty argument
Thank you for admitting defeat, normie.

>>6312503
>le
Total fag

>>6312502
>Napoleon Dynamite reference
What year is it?

>>6312506
I only referenced Napoleon Dynamite; you're LARPing him

>>6312509
My mistake. I must have missed the part of the film where Napoleon gets pissed off at Sonic 2 fags.

>>6312514

Fuck off to the SMB3 vs SMW shitposting threads faggots.

>>6312390
i bet you do the bonus stages in dkc too

>>6312540
>implying the Team A vs Team B shitposting mindset hasn't been a thing since the beginning of times
it's a virus.

>>6312243
Le epic contrarianism

>>6312616
What's contrarian about it?

You're close, yet so far.

>>6312540
just because we want to argue doesnt mean we dont like all of them. This is how the board would be if it was up to you faggots
>I like Mario 3
>I also like Mario 3
>I like Mario World

hahaha wow. great content

>>6312694
Nah.

>>6312797
That's not too different from
>I don't like Mario 3
>I also don't like Mario 3
>I don't like Mario World
Both are bad. It'd be great if we could argue and discuss, but that's impossible due to shitposters only being interested in posting memetic pictures and throwing random centennial buzzwords around.

Spinball

>>6312219
S3&K for sure. While I'm of the opinion that all of the main series classic games are phenomenal in some way (even if 1 and CD are definitely more methodical), S3&K just has everything I'd want in a 2D platformer. Fantastic level design with huge, sprawling levels, plenty of branching paths and opportunities for exploration, multiple characters with distinct skill sets, the power-ups are fun to play around with, etc. And of course, plenty of potential for blasting through the levels quickly once you get good enough. The way it tells its story without dialogue is also really cool.

>>6312625
Most people would put Sonic 1 last, while S3&K is typically considered the best Sonic game in the eyes of the general gaming public. While I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you, putting Sonic 1 first especially seems to be the mark of a contrarian since it's an opinion that I only seem to see in places like /vr/, where I *also* constantly see "x game ruined y genre/series" applied to various other fan favorites.

>>6312853
Yah

8-bit Sonic is better than 16-bit Sonic, except Blast

Sonic 1 is my favorite, but I have more fun playing 2. I think I just prefer Sonic 1 levels/aesthetic over 2, but 2 is a better game overall.

Sonic 2 > Sonic 1 > S&K > S3&K > S3 > SCD

>>6312616
>Le epic
Kill yourself

>>6313127
>S3&K is typically considered the best Sonic game in the eyes of the general gaming public
No, it's typically considered the best by Sonic fans, who are legally retarded and proven themselves to have disgusting taste in games. Sonic 2 has always been seen as the best (and one of the very few good) Sonic games

>>6313280
Swap CD with S3&K and this is perfect

>>6313271
They're good but you'd be delusional to call Sonic 2 8-bit better than any of the main 16-bit titles.
Sonic 1 and Sonic Chaos are better than 2.

>>6312864
It's more like
>I like Mario 3
>pleb filtered by Mario World
>Both are garbage, Mario was always shit, everything is bad
>what order should Mario be played in if I like Castlevania?

>>6313550
>I watch IGN
Faggot, you weren't alive in the early 90s so stop pretending you were, shitstain

>best stages
2 > &K > 1 > 3 > CD
>best bonus stages
3&K > 1 > CD > 2

>>6312219
3&K = CD > S1 > S2

Please remember to ignore retards who treat S3 and its second half as different standalone games.

>>6313623
>Please remember to ignore retards who treat S3 and its second half as different standalone games.
Hey zoom zoom, wanna know how I know you weren't there at the time?

>>6313630
Just because you didn't know about lock-on at the time doesn't mean they were intended to be 2 separate games you retarded larper

>>6312219
My favourite classic series game is 3&K, but I tend to prefer the 3D ones like Adventure and Unleashed. I know most of them are awful but I think they're fun lol

>>6313637
Just because you weren't alive/conscious back in 1994 doesn't mean people didn't buy Sonic 3 at release.

>>6313637
>intended
Funny you should mention that, because Sonic 3 wasn't even supposed to be the game it ended up being, a lot of the development time went on to trying to make a 3D/isometric Sonic game, which was ultimately cancelled due to the SVP chip they needed not being available yet, and they had a deadline.
The idea of the lock-on and Sonic & Knuckles only came up very late in the development cycle.

>>6313658
>>6313663
no one cares

>>6313668
You clearly do.
Also
>nobody cares about the history of classic retro games
doubt it.

its just a sonic game who the fuck cares what people call it or define it as

>>6313658
>>6313663
Go back

>>6313672
>nooo you can't deflect my zoomer revisionist history with facts and logic noooo

>>6313675
>my zoomer revisionist history
You mean yours?

>>6312236
I wager as the acts became longer and more hazardous in the sequels, holding onto 50 rings became more difficult so they retooled the special stage system accordingly. Not only that, you only have two acts for most zones in 2 and 3, so you'd just have the first act of a zone to find a ring.

>>6313292
if knuckles is with sonic and tails, who is that in the bush?

>>6313676
You're the one claiming Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles weren't released as separate games.
You probably even think both came out at the same time.

>>6313680
Ken Penders

>>6313681
I'm not claiming that, learn basic reading comprehension you fucking retard, go back to middle school.

>>6313683
jesus christ how horrifying

I unironcially like vanilla Sonic 3 the best. Didn't like many of the stages in Sonic and Knuckles and Knuckles is overrated.

Sonic 2 is alright but feels the most dated. I hate Casino Night - it feels so old.

>>6313684
You're the one who claimed only "retards" treat Sonic 3 and S&K as separate games, when they were released like that.

>>6313578
I'm 39

>>6313704
NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR STUPID OLD BORING STORIES GRANDPA, NO ONE IN THE MODERN ERA CARES THAT THEY WERE RELEASED SEPARATELY JUST TO SCREW YOUR ANCIENT ASS OUT OF SHEKELS IN THE MIDDLE AGES OF GAMING. IN MODERN DAY THEY ARE THE SAME GAME, GET OVER IT AND GET USED TO IT

>>6313705
Yikes

>>6313704
They are the same game, just released separately. They're meant to be played with lock-on, why is this concept so hard to grasp for you? are you mentally challenged?

>>6313717
Thanks for proving my point that people who try to negate the fact that they're 2 separate games are, in fact, just salty zoomers who first played this games with the 3 Complete romhack.
>>6313725
They are clearly not the same game though, they're 2 separate games with a lock-on feature. Most of Sonic 3 was developed first, THEN at the very end of the dev cycle, they came up with the S&K idea, so they developed most of it once S3 was already done. Sure, some concepts were there from the beginning (like Flying Battery, which is a mix of concepts from 2 older zones from Sonic 2: Metropolis and Wing Fortress).
This is backed up by developer interviews where they explain that Sonic 3 had a very short development time, as they spent a lot of time working on a cancelled 3D-style game that was going to use the SVP.
>They're meant to be played with lock-on
They're not, the lock-on is an option. They're perfectly playable as stand-alone games.

>>6313735
>they're 2 separate games with a lock-on feature.
The same inteview you quote talks about how the dev team was relieved when they decided to split the game development in 2 parts.
It's the same fucking game, it's one big adventure for fuck's sake.

>>6313749
Here's the thing, I never claimed that playing the game with the lock-on feature is "for retards".
You on the other hand, claim that anyone who refers to them as 2 separate games are retards.
The games were officially released separately. It's perfectly valid to rate them separately, even if they were developed with lock-on functionality.
The same way, people could include S2&K in their rankings.

Speaking of the lock-on, anyone knows why Sonic 2 lets you play with Knuckles, but not Sonic 1? Was there any reason stated?

>>6313754
>It's perfectly valid to rate them separately, even if they were developed with lock-on functionality.
Why would you treat them as individual games? It's retarded, especially in this day and age where there's literally zero reason to play them without lock-on.

>>6313760
I dunno but looking at that screenshot makes me miss the fuchsia knuckles.

>>6313762
>Why would you treat them as individual games?
Again, because they were separated as such. Many people played these games as stand-alone titles, especially Sonic 3 which came out first.
Anyway, you're the one throwing a tantrum over something that's not really a big deal, nobody else is screeching if people rank only 3&K and not separately.
>especially in this day and age where there's literally zero reason to play them without lock-on.
If we're going by "in this day and age" rhetoric, then we might as well not even be on /vr/. Also you're still wrong, I like to play them as stand alone even today. Depending on my mood. Especially Sonic 3 because of the final boss and mini boss/knuckles music.

>>6313772
>Anyway, you're the one throwing a tantrum over something that's not really a big deal, nobody else is screeching if people rank only 3&K and not separately.
Dude, you're the retard who spergs out everytime people call you out on your autistic crusade, don't you have any hobbies? fuck off

>>6313780
lmao what? you were the one who started screeching autistically because people (naturally) rank S3 and S&K as separate games.

>>6313782
>people (naturally) rank S3 and S&K as separate games.
Dude, you're delusional, but you're a sonic faggot, so I expect nothing but the most autistic and retarded behaviour, so yeah. Kill yourself tranny

>>6313786
Why are you even posting if you don't like Sonic?
Zoomer and retarded.

>>6312219
Sonic 3 & Knuckles

>>6313786
>waaah stop referring to Sonic 3 & Knuckles as separate games! You CAN'T just play them separately they were meant to be one game!
>wh-what? What do you mean they can be played separately? Nooooo, my romhack folder doesn't have them as separate games so they never existed noooooo

>>6313787
I like the classic games, I just don't like the autistic retards from its fanbase, like you

>>6313796
Case in point

>>6313797
>claims to like the classic games
>the concept of Sonic 3 being a stand-alone title is alien to him
hmmmm.

>>6313801
It was intended to be played with lock-on, whether you like it or not, it's still a fact. Now fuck off zoomer revisionist retard

>>6313797
>claims autistic retards
>was the one who actually started a retarded autistic tantrum because people are ranking the games as they were released originally
ok

>>6313807
You're the autistic retard who can't stand getting BTFO multiple times just because he wants people to believe sonic 3 and knuckles is not one big game

>>6313805
>It was intended to be played with lock-on,
Do you come from an alternate reality where S&K was released alongside Sonic 3?
>Now fuck off zoomer revisionist retard
My irony detector just exploded.

>>6313808
Here's the thing. Nobody here is saying that you can't play with the lock-on functionality.
You're still the autistic retard who gets BTFO everytime someone reminds you that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were released separately, and are perfectly playable (in fact with more content in the case of S3) separately, as originally released.

>>6313809
Why are you so mad at the fact that Sonic 3 and Knuckles was meant to be played with lock-on? were you dropped as a child?

>>6313813
I'm not arguing that, learn basic reading comprehension before you reply to me you stupid retard.
Sonic 3 AND Knucles is one game, deal with it or fuck off

>>6313816
>I'm not arguing that
what are you so angry, then? People here rank the games as originally released, separately.
They can be played with the lock-on, and that's fine (unless you want the sonic 3 knux/mini boss music and Big Arm boss with Sonic), but they were still released separately.
You're evidently taking this way too personal, anyway. Just play 3&K and be happy man.

>>6313820
Sonic 3 AND Knucles is one game, deal with it or fuck off

>>6313816
>Why are you so mad at the fact that Sonic 3 and Knuckles was meant to be played with lock-on?
Why are you so mad at the fact that Sonic 3 came out first and people who were actually alive and conscious in 1994 played it that way?

>>6313821
I just checked my copy of Sonic 3. It still says "Sonic The Hedgehog 3", no & Knuckles to be seen anywhere on the box, or in-game.
Same as my copy of Sonic & Knuckles, no "3" to be seen anywhere.
It's cool that they can be combined (like S2&K), but no, they aren't 1 game. Were never released as 1 game.

>>6313823
>>6313824
Sonic 3 AND Knucles is one game, deal with it or fuck off

>>6313821
>>6313825
autism.

>>6313829
Get fucked retard, you lost

>>6313830
Nope. History still supports me. They were released separately.
If you're going to get mad whenever people don't rank Sonic 3 with Sonic & Knuckles attacked, then you should do the same when people don't rank Sonic 2 with S&K attached.

>>6313832
Sonic 3 AND Knucles is one game, deal with it or fuck off

>>6313835
autism

>>6313840
That's what you have.
Sonic 3 AND Knucles is one game, deal with it or fuck off

>>6313841
Keep repeating the mantra, maybe it'll work and time-space will get modified. Until then, Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were released separately, clearly not one game.

While we're on this topic, is Sonic Spinball a really hard game or do I just suck?

>>6313850
It's a finicky game. I always thought the physics and collision detection was off, although have in mind I only played the PC version.
At any rate, it wasn't developed by Sonic Team, it was an american game.

>>6313847
Sonic 3 AND Knucles is one game, deal with it or fuck off

Holy copeola Sonic 2 fags

>>6313865
Sonic 2 AND Knuckles is one game, deal with it or fuck off.

so I guess there's no real standalone classic Sonic games other than Sonic 1.
Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 never existed. It was always Sonic 2 & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
In that case...
S2&K>Sonic 1>S3&K

>>6313876
sonic 1 also never existed, it's called Blue Spheres
Blue Spheres>2&K>3&K
The patrician rank.

>>6313872
3*

I don't understand how anyone could pick anything other than Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Sonic 1 and 2 feel like prototypes that don't even belong in the same series.

2 is the only Sonic game I particularly like.

I feel like Mania could be the best if it didn't have too much flow breaking. And didn't have the Titanic Monarch zone.

>>6313760
Because it's funny

>>6313564
Oh yeah?

3&K > 2 MD > 2 GG > TT > CD > 1 GG > Chaos > 1 MD, at minimum

>>6313892
Sonic 2 and 3 are one game?

>>6314107
Completely backwards.

>>6314065
Sonic & Knuckles is almost as good as Sonic 2, but Sonic 3 is the worst of the main games.

>>6312219
Picrel.
It's not only the best Sonic game, it's not only a masterpiece; it's the greatest video game of all time.
It all built up to this.

>>6314210
agreed.

>>6314381
>Those god awful mech stages
>Nuked the treasure hunting stages with the radar
>Pretty much all the later zones
>The shitty, overconvoluted story
Nah

>>6314381
i always liked SA1 more.

>>6313772
>If we're going by "in this day and age" rhetoric, then we might as well not even be on /vr/.
I can't speak for everyone here, but I come to this board to discuss old video games, not to roleplay like I'm living in the 90s

>>6312273
There is no question. Only assertions.

S3&K > SA1 > S2 > CD > S3 > S&K = S1 > shit > SA2

Not saying that it's a bad game, but I can understand why GamesMaster gave it 65%

>>6312219
Sonic 3's toodeepforyou ending was stupid. Wow, I'm locked in a room for eternity with a bouncing barrel what great symbolism.

I liked 3D Blast

>>6312219
3 air.

>>6314627
>SA1 > S2
Uhhhhh

>>6314642
because they are contrarian?

>>6314571
>not to roleplay like I'm living in the 90s
I didn't mean that.
We're here to discuss older games, if our mentality is "weeeeellllll, but IN THIS DAY AND AGE..." we might as well just go to /v/ and just complain about modern video game industry like they always do. This is a board to escape the narrow "only current things matter" mentality. It's different from "role playing like I'm living in the 90s". For one, the internet as a whole wasn't something widely available back then, so from the get go, roleplaying as being in the 90s would be contradictory.