/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6279174
Not even in my top 10 SNES JRPGs. It's a soft 6/10 to me, heavily flawed. Reminds me of Secret of Mana in that regard. People have a hard time being impartial when it comes to Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana, especially when they grew up with the games.

>>6279174
Great but highly overrated by hipster nintendumbasses. The ds port has all the bonus contents but lacks soul and has a shitty soulless translation.

>>6279178
What are your top 10 SNES JRPGs, out of curiosity? Earthbound and Chrono Trigger are my two favorites.

>>6279174
Don't listen to >>6279179 the DS version is the definitive version of the game. The translation in the DS version is more faithful and it's got the most amount of content of any version. Some of the bonus stuff does feel a little tacked on, but you're rewarded with some truly tremendous items if you clear it. Having a map on the bottom screen proves pretty helpful too.

As far as the game itself goes, it's fucking perfect imo. Doesn't overstay its welcome and no need for excessive grinding (or grinding at all really). Some really nice side quests too for each of your party members, contributing to their character and powering them up.

>>6279174
It made me give up on trying to like jRPGs

>>6279174
DS port isn't terrible given the hardware, but it's still much worse than the SNES game

>>6279174
Ignore the try hard contrarian fucktards. It's an excellent game that deserves all its praise.

>>6279174
>Where does this rank among the JRPGs you've played?
Right behind Chrono Cross

>>6279174
Number one or close to it, and I've played a ton of JRPGs. Still one of my favorite games.

>>6279174
close to the very top.

>>6279174
>Where does this rank among the JRPGs you've played?
it's ok, good audio and visuals and stuff, but pretty braindead battle design
>And how is the DS port?
as long as you don't touch the bonus content, acceptable.

>>6279174
I played about 75% of it then dropped it out of boredom
so for a jarpig that's pretty good I think

>>6279174
It's up there as one of the best of its generation for sure. Innovated in a lot of ways that no other studio bothered to immitate because they're mostly lazy shits. People complain about the story being simple. That's actually a good thing, a simple story with likeable characters that is (most importantly) well paced beats out a stupid twist and turn convoluted story any day. And the pacing in CT is fantastic.
DS port is useless, the resolution on the SNES version is already comically low and the DS version is even lower. The "new content" is mediocre. Only good thing is it's portable i guess.
>>6279178
Comparing CT to SOM is a massive insult to CT.

>>6279192
The sound is fucking terrible in the DS version bro.

>>6279505
Having only played via emulator I might not be fully informed on the audio differences.

Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6 were the best RPGs for SNES. For any fag that disagrees, post a better RPG for SNES.

>>6279174
I love RPGs and JRPGs, but every time I start this game I get bored after a few hours.

Playing for the first time...which is correct: active or wait?

>>6279178
So by
>People have a hard time being impartial
You mean
>People don't agree with my retarded opinions
Right?

>>6279192
DS has worse music

>>6279174
#1 and #1 game of all time, nigggguh

>>6279557
Active if you want a normal playthrough, Wait if you wanna chill playthrough

>>6279178
CT is a 10/10, I didn't play it until 98 on an emulator, but SoM is shit, though.

For having time travel as central theme it sure as fuck doesn't feel like time travel but just going to anachronistic islands serving the usual jarpig fare. The fighting is beyond basic/boring and the techs are simply not worth sitting through when you can win easily by just mashing attack. Also fuck all those fixed encounters chock full of yet another slight skeleton or ass head goblin variation.

>>6279656
>it sure as fuck doesn't feel like time travel
It is the only fucking time travel game in history that MODELS CONTINENTAL DRIFT.

FUCK YOU.

>>6279512
Go on YouTube and compare the new Luminarie SFX to the original. It’s disgusting how bad they fucked up.

And fuck anti-localization weebs. The original translation is fine.

>>6279787
Wouldn't EVO: The Search for Eden sorta count as well?

>>6279174
ive played about a trillion jrpgs and while i don't think CT is perfect it's genuinely a fantastic game that i could revisit any time. if it was maybe 20% more challenging then it'd be even better imo.

>>6279656
>it sure as fuck doesn't feel like time travel
you have got to be shitting me around, dude. there's literally entire questlines where you alter something in the past to fix shit up in the future, many of which aren't even necessary to beat the game. you sound like someone who watched a longplay on youtube.

Needs more porn.

I don't like the dungeon design.

>>6279787
>MODELS CONTINENTAL DRIFT

>change bits of map around, raise and sink whole continents without affecting the surroundings one pixel

>"continental drift"

lol

>>6280530
yet other games don't do it

>>6279174
Why do you care where I rank it, cuck? You gonna play every game I recommend? You know what, Chrono Trigger is the #1 JRPG of all times. I played them all, and it's the best. Play it right now because I said so.

>>6280763
I too fucking hate discussion. Why are you even here? /v/ might be more your speed little buddy.

>>6279557
active. the only time to use wait is if you're taking on a particular challenge to get the developer's ending.

>>6279656
lies, they tied time travel into the game very well. and how is the fighting basic/boring when they created an innovative system of double/triple techs? and many fights require strategy to get through.

>techs are simply not worth sitting through when you can win easily by just mashing attack
more lies. techs multiply damage, they look cool, and sometimes you need them; a number of fights cannot be won by mashing attack.

>>6280759
Because it's fucking stupid especially considering the massive changes between 600 and 1000 AD.

>>6281524
Maybe because there's A GIANT FUCKING ALIEN buried underground!

>>6281561
Dormant.

>>6280530
>>6281524
>>6281561
>>6281572
It's implied throughout the game that the planet is sentient (the Entity) and has been subtly manipulating Crono and his Scooby Doo gang to destroy Lavos by opening time gates. If it can create doors through the space-time continuum than moving a few land masses should be simple (though it makes you wonder why doesn't it destroy Lavos itself).

>>6281638
Are you fucking retarded? The Entity is the player.

>>6281678
Not in the Jap version. The references to the planet being alive were more overt.

>>6281686
Any evidence?

>>6281678
The Entity is overwhelmingly likely the planet.

>>6281710
>>6281686
>>6281638
No.
The player propels the story forward through observation. The player pushes the characters through events with direct control. The player starts the whole sequence by playing. The player wanted the characters to witness all the historic events. When the game ends, the player may finally rest. The player is a near omniscient and the god-like being referenced.

>>6281692
Well when Azala dies in the NA version she says "the powers that be have spoken.". In the Japanese version she says something like "the planet has decided". Also Gasper says before the final battle "this a battle between the planet and Lavos". In the NA version he says "the world".

>>6281524
the maps aren't that different, except for Giant's Claw and Magus' Lair. considering that Magus summoned Lavos in 600 ad, that's more than enough reason for there to be geographic changes in the vicinity.

>>6281735
Reaching.
https://youtu.be/LPgfbWWj5Sg?t=321

>>6281731
Dead wrong. The player didn't place the time gates there, the devs did. Also a first time player has no idea what's going to happen until it happens (or It's spoiled by internet assholes like us).

>>6281745
Account New Game+ into it. The player is asking the characters to re-visit the player's history. If we stick with the time travel aspect, your future self and the present self are the same. The time gates don't activate until the player pushes the plot forward.

>>6281741
That guy is full of shit. That's just his and Woolsey's interpretation.

>>6279547
Lufia 2.

>>6279174
Old opinion here, but I love CT. It's in my top 5 easily.

The DS port, as I understand, adds in some references to Cross, and is the same game as the original otherwise. I played it a little bit, but the sprites look fucking PUNY and the second screen isn't implemented in any more than a superficial way, so I felt it was a waste of time (I already owned the SNES and PSX versions then) but it's not a bad port by any reasonable measure.

>>6279174
A great example of a flawless game.

The combat is simple but with enough depth. I normally hate ATB, but the double/triple techs, the fixed character placement in the field, AOE, enemies moving around made ATB much more engaging for me. Also, no random encounters.

The story moves at a good pacing, always something happening, somewhere new to explore. Simple, but charming characters that have a bit more depth if you seek it out.

The artstyle and graphics were some of the best of its generation. And it's 2d pixel graphics have aged well.

The soundtrack has some of the best and most memorable music in video game. It boasts a wide variety of songs that fit different moods and settings. I still listen to it from time to time.

The game isn't too long to beat and offers a lot of replay value if you want more with its multiple endings from new game pluses which has become a staple of the genre.

So while it doesn't necessarily do anything truly groundbreaking, it is still a very solid game that does everything right.

It's a definite 9.5/10

>>6281638
>>6281686
>>6281710
>>6281735
I have a theory that Crono was spawned by the planet.

He's basically Time Jesus.

>>6279174
#1, but it's also my #1 favorite game of all time. easily

>>6279174
Overrated to high hell.

DS port made me want to stab my ears.

>>6279174
kind of overrated but its good choice

>>6279547
Illusion of Gaia

>>6281874
shitty bad game with trashy sprites. The cavewoman scene made me throw my Nintendo into the bridge.

>>6282034
>>6282064
contraritard opinions are invalid

>>6282070
Thanks to kids like you I can't get laid.

>>6282064
>The cavewoman scene made me throw my Nintendo into the bridge.
May I ask which scene you're talking about?

>>6279547
Shin Megami Tensei

>>6282060
Terranigma is better than that and still worse than Chrono Trigger.

>>6279174
It's easily in my top 10, but it's definitely not 'one of the bestest game of all time evar' like hipsters and gaming '''''journalists''''' tend to say.

Wish people talking shit about Chrono Trigger would list SNES JRPGs they consider superior.

>>6279656
Your failed meme term will never catch on no matter how many times you try and force it.

>>6279192
the ds sounds like fucking garbage

>>6282192
but anon they would be called out for shit taste and want to pretend they are superior for shitting on one of the best rpgs of all time so they wont post a list cuz its a bitch made faggot list and they know it. basically cowardly pussy ass bitches

>>6284041
The extra dungeons in the DS version are absolute crap. The bonus boss fight was ok: a puzzle boss with unique methods required to beat it, just like Lavos.

>>6282808
One day it will be a meme just like Milhouse.

>>6279174
Top 10. Fantastic game.

>>6284203
but milhouse was never a meme you lying soulless queer

>>6284041
Absolute garbage I don't know, but it was not as good as the snes.
>>6284103
This I agree with, I expected better !

All this said the DS version is the best way to play on my phone on the go!
Dual screen is actually good because you get the menus in the lower screen, you can even have 100% touch control.

So, if you want the best experience, it's the Snes no contest... If you want to replay the game or just don't have an snes and really want to play the game! The ds version is more than enough !

>>6284203
Wait, WHAT?! I usually think these are dumb, but this is 100% what I’ve seen all these years. Doesn’t the battle with Queen Zeal even take place at the top of the tower?

>>6279174
I think it is a bit overrated. I find the characters and plot to be a little boring. Battles and progression were too simplistic. I think the game was great from Antiquity and onward, but even that part is surpassed by other games.

I have no idea why people call it the greatest jrpg of all time. The story and world was easily surpassed by Xenogears(Even if it was a little pretentious). The gameplay was easily surpassed by Final Fantasy 6 or 9. It feels like a good jrpg for people new to the genre but I wouldn't put it in my top 5.

>>6284259
Nah that's what I thought too. But look closely at the center of the Black Omen. It actually takes place on that middle separated part.

>>6284259

>>6284259

>>6284259
The Black Omen isn't a "tower", it's a sci-fi style flying warship, created from the transmutated matter of the Ocean Palace. The bow faces north and the stern faces south. The battle with Queen Zeal takes place atop the Black Omen's bridge, located at about 2/3rds the length of the vessel.

>>6284310
Wow. Just rolled in here and then read past replies after this eureka. Always thought it was a tower, too. Rival Epoch, awesome.

>>6284361
Not really though? It dwarfs the Epoch in size. Probably closer to something like a Star Destroyer.

>>6282070
Calling people "contrarians" is pure reddit faggotry, but this game is legitimately 9/10 at worst.

>>6279387
>People complain about the story being simple
If you want a good story then read a book !

>>6284364
Well, I just meant in relation to this game. Very cool, regardless!

>>6284370
Fair enough. :D

>>6279387
>Comparing CT to SOM is a massive insult to CT
This, though Secret is still a good game

>>6282176
Why would your top 10 not include the best games of all time? Are you some kind of a moron?

>>6284387
Not him, but could you possibly conceive of liking elements of something enough to include it in your top 10 without thinking that it’s technically one of the greatest of all time? Really think about that, I know you can grasp this.

>>6279174
this is one of the best videogames ever in plot, ambience and story

its comparable to shakespekare

>>6282135
Please be serious anon.

>>6280406
>you sound like someone who watched a longplay on youtube

ice cold

>>6284387
>Why would your top 10 not include the best games of all time?
Because we're talking about the best JRPGs, not the best games of all time.

>Are you some kind of a moron?
no u

>>6279178
Post your list, you coward.

>>6279547
Dragon Quest V >>> FFVI

>>6285163
he want... he's a pink pussy queer bitch that runs his mouth and shitposts for de lulz but actually doesnt have a list or its such a shit list he's scared to post it. its obvious he's being an underage and/or mentally underage shitter on purpose

>>6279179
>soul!
>soul!!
This is your brain on memes. How can you expect to be taken seriously?

>>6279174
Probably in my top 10 retro JRPGs but maybe not idk. Let's see
1) FFT
2) Suikoden II
3) FFVI
4) Ogre Battle
5) Legend of Mana
6) DQIII
7) Chrono Trigger
ok yep it's there

>>6285198
>can't marry Debora
SNES version a shit

>>6279174
The best one. The best port.

This thread has been bumped.

...But you're still hungry.

>>6281802

Rare to see this game get the love it deserves.

It's is a clunky hybrid of turn-based and real-time (ATB). Enemies pose no threat and deal a fraction of the damage the player character is capable of dishing out. There's almost no interesting spells or status effects, important debuff/buffs, every ability simply deals damage. Dual/triple techs are just boring variations on the same 'do tons of damage' or 'heal tons of HP' template. There's nothings that messes with Equipment-in battle, interact with terrain or change the very rules and mechanics of the battle, It's so bland and dull. Compare to any turn based games like SMT, SaGa, Xeno, Etrian, even Chrono Cross or other FF that use ATB, etc. It simply lacks enough depth and challenge to be compelling since you have no real customization, builds or skills which hurts replayablity when every play-through is the same each shit. There's barely any exploration, it's a time travel game that is somehow completely on rails. Your only choice is how soon you want to end the game by teleporting to Lavos which is the most disappointing aspect. There's no practical way to beat the game 'early' on your first run inb4 some lame TAS bulllshit, so you pretty much have to get the standard ending, then all the other endings are NG+ replay gimmicks that basically reward you for being over-geared at particular stages of the otherwise linear game. The gameplay is awful, you are a delusional blind fanboy if you can't see that.

>>6286990
There's no room for failure in CT. You have to have a genuine low IQ to die. There's no entertainment when the gameplay loop just spam high level techs with a occasional AoA heal. That's terrible gameplay, it's repetitive and devoid of sustenance and dungeons might as well be linear corridors. It's not only overly simple, it's overly TOO easy. There is no challenge and variety is non-existent. Abusing double and triple techs really just destroys anything, and when Crono receives the Luminary spell, you don't even have to think ever again about what you're doing. The lack of challenge is a major problem when that's 90% of the fucking game. Its hard to remain engaged when you are just sitting there watching animations play out and not actively engaging with the mechanics. Even Magus' (which people like to claim is a difficult battle) is completely bypassed by doing the same thing you do all game, spam techs with a heal. The game has almost zero customization which is supposed to be the point of a RPG? The characters are auto-assigned new spells as they level up and there is almost zero player involvement, except in equipping new gear which is just select the best one in every scenario. You can't assign spells or roles to anyone they are just attackers and healers who basically play the same. It's boring as rpg, and there's no strategy to the actual game part. Just look at the other rpgs that came out CT's era that surpass it in all areas

>>6286990
>>6286991
qwzxaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzddaw Must have fallen asleep on my keyboard.

>>6279174
It's shit.

>>6279174
It's good.

>>6279174
I think that CT and PS4 are the two best JRPGs released. They have nearly everything that made the genre worth caring about and sidestepped all the excesses that made it become a joke into the 2000s. Plus you speed through the plot at a breakneck pace compared to other JRPGs both before and after.

>SOULful Woolsey translation:
>"This creature sleeps beyond the flow of time."
>soulless "faithful" translation
>"It's dead or something." Can't even remember it because it was so soulless.

>>6279174
> Having 2 Water users in the Magus fight
Basically giving him the advantage for half the fight instead of only 1/4 is not good strategy, Anon.

>>6279178
lmao I can practically imagine the sweat flying off of your sausage fingers with how fast you tried to shove your smelly chins into this thread and tell everyone how badass and contrarian you are.

>>6279387
>>6279639
SoM is great, you fags probably just hate any RPG that isn't turn-based.

>>6280408
I wish robaato did less pin-up shit and more hardcore porn.

>>6279192
WTF the DS port sounds awful, confirmed for not having played it

>>6279174
DS version is the definitive version. Also it's a great game, not my number 1 rpg but close.

>>6279809
>The original translation is fine.
kys hipster.

>>6279505
>>6279587
>>6284041
>>6287803
Superior translation and bestiary > Better sound.
If I want to hear the music I'll go listen to it on YT or download it.

>>6287821
>>6287803
I don't understand, you guys love this game don't you? Why are you nitpicking the sound on a handheld so much, I think any version of CT sounds and plays excellently. Well maybe not those PS1 load times but ignore that

>>6284365
>Calling people "contrarians" is pure reddit faggotry
>NO NO NO STOP MAKING FUN OF ME FOR CALLING SOMETHING BAD JUST BECAUSE IT'S POPULAR! I DON'T WANT TO LIKE POPULAR THINGS I'M SUPPOSED TO BE UNIQUE AND SPECIAAAAAAL!

>>6287487
>that made it become a joke into the 2000s
God some of you /vr/fags are so embedded in your fake personalities you don't realize how hilariously stupid you sound to any sane normal person.

>the version that ends with it being confirmed that Dalton killed everyone two years later is the definitive version
lolno

>>6287828
He wasn't wrong.

Well I gotta say, back then the graphics, music and gameplay did impress me a LOT more than any other stuff on the console.
Then again, as a kid using no guides whatsoever, I "finished" it having one of the worst endings in a few hours and lost interest.
I think the whole having 10 endings is not quite right. I played the game then all of a sudden the world ends in a catastrophe, what the fuck?
Looking at it today as I replay it from time to time, it's a bit too much on the easy side, although the super cool toryiama characters do their job of keeping things interesting.
For me, the SNES Breath of Fire games and Dragon Quest V are the best RPG experiences you can get on the console, there's a challenge to both of them and none of this bullshit where you have multiple endings. Also Star Ocean but I only got to know that as an adult.

>>6279174
It's alright. I give it 7.5/10 never really felt compelled to come back to it other then when they re-released it for the DS, but then again I almost never replay any JRPGs. I fell like I would have enjoyed more had I not heard the hype that surrounds the game, it's not the best thing ever, but it stands out in the sea of jarpigs.

SNES has the best version IMO, PS1 has anime style cutscenes but long loading times.

NDS version is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, I didn't even really noticed the differences (other than the added content) until someone pointed it out in a thread on /v/ years ago. It has the ps1 cutscenes with none of the loading times, extra challenge in the new dungeons and it is portable, though nowadays with cellphones and can have the SNES version anywhere too.

>>6287786
You don't know the boss's gimmick going into it the first time my dude.

>>6286990
>There's almost no interesting spells or status effects, important debuff/buffs, every ability simply deals damage.
haste is very useful, and there's a number of status effects. status attacks can be a serious nuisance in the final battle if you're not protected, and putting enemies to sleep is situationally useful sometimes (eg Mother Brain).

>There's nothings that messes with Equipment-in battle, interact with terrain or change the very rules and mechanics of the battle, It's so bland and dull.
but you do interact with terrain in the Ozzie battles. you often have to use strategy to defeat enemies/bosses, attacking a certain way or using a certain kind of magic.

>There's barely any exploration, it's a time travel game that is somehow completely on rails. Your only choice is how soon you want to end the game
but there's a bunch of optional content in the endgame.

>dungeons might as well be linear corridors.
except they involve exploration, puzzle-solving, and a e s t h e t i c s.

>Its hard to remain engaged when you are just sitting there watching animations play out and not actively engaging with the mechanics.
but the animations are cool. also, active time battle system should keep you engaged.

>The game has almost zero customization which is supposed to be the point of a RPG? ... You can't assign spells or roles to anyone they are just attackers and healers who basically play the same.
CT makes up for this by letting you mix and match different party builds, using three characters from a roster of 7. this gives you different strengths and weaknesses depending on the situation. and no, they don't play the same -- Lucca and Robo lack speed compared to Marle and Frog, then there's different double/triple techs and magic types, etc.

I agree that the game is on the easy side, and NG+/multiple endings isn't quite enough for replayability. but those are your only valid points, and that can be resolved with the Level Zero patch.

>>6287795
Even Final Fantasy Adventure is better than Secret of Mana.

>Where does this rank among the JRPGs you've played?

Just like everything in life, I think the value this game has to offer depends on the player's experience when playing it. It is my favorite along Suikoden II, mostly becaue I've had great times playing both of them. Suikoden was more straightforward but beating Chrono was an adventure on its own for me.

My cousin introduced me to CT back when visiting my grandma during summer breaks, we'd get it from a rental store nearby and take turns on each save doing our own gameplay. Then it closed and I had to find it in my city. Only two stores had it, we'd awalys have our slots erased by other players and so on. In the end it took me a good two years or so trying to beat it on a trial and error basis. It was never annoying, playing the earlier parts several times made me get past them faster (think Dragon Quarter), learn item and equipment locations by heart and such. When I finally beat the game it was definitely one of the most satisfying accomplishments in my life.

The game isn't perfect (I prefer BoF's cast, for example), but has a good balance of progression, gameplay and story. Even fetch quests are nice or creative. And I swear, every time I beat it I find a new detail/dialogue that I missed during these 20 years or so (even now, I just realized the Black Omen thing because of >>6284203). It just hits the right spots.

>>6288467
There's a secret room in Zeal which mentions the Frozen Flame. This wasn't a post Chrono Cross addition like in the PS and DS versions, it was in the original SNES version.

>>6288884
I assume it's this book:
>It all began aeons ago, when man's
>ancestors picked up a shard of a
>strange red rock...

>Its power, which was beyond human
>comprehension, cultivated dreams...
>In turn, love and hate were born...

>Only time will see how it all ends.

>>6288884
>>6288943
That description could also apply to dreamstone.

>>6279174
Historically significant game. Great character designs.
I slogged through the ps1 version and still enjoyed it with the anime scenes

>>6284203
>>6284310
FUCK

>>6288368
i love FFA but this opinion stinks

>>6289159
How could a correct opinion stink? What a strange thing to say.

>>6279192
The DS port is soulless. Shit sound, missing or poorly preserved hardware tricks and low-quality added dungeons that don't fit into the game.
If you can't play on a SFC with a CRT or an OSSC, bsnes is your best bet.

>>6279387
>Comparing CT to SOM is a massive insult to CT.
This. SoM was a two-player with free form combat. CT was just more turn based single player garbage.

>>6284301
>>Xenogears
HAHAHAHA
yeah I like the second part of the game, when the character, just sit in a chair and tells you the story lol

I'd rank Chrono Trigger as my favorite JRPG of all time easily, they're many RPGs on SNES that are excellent in their own right. Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, Lufia 2, Illusion of Gaia, Final Fantasy V, but none have captured the magic quite like CT

>>6279174
Somewhere in my top 10 easily. The OST is godlike to this day. The intro song still gets me pumped for adventure. Corridor of Time is a masterpiece.

>>6289614
I think Chrono Trigger is an objectively better game (especially that it is finished). But a Xenogears does certain things better. In terms of characters Xenogears was better. Fei, Citan, Elly, and Bart were more interesting than Chrono, Marle, Lucca, and Glenn. Krelian, Miang and Deus were more interesting than Queen Zeal, Dalton, and Lavos.

I think Chrono Trigger has little flaws and a great second half, but I don’t feel it has as high of highs as Xenogears in its story and world