/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6268643
I'm partial to the panasonic but dial tuners have a nice aesthetic

>Fix both
>Clean both

Those are nice sets, you should make sure they stay in good condition.

>>6268724
Yeah, I been putting it off, have a bad workspace. I plan to fix em both up.
think the one on the left is in color? I've never had it on, the one on the right I had on but couldn't get it to tune properly to ch 3 or 4 for gaming.

>>6268643
The Panasonic look to be the best chance of being color but the one with dials also looks like a cheaper 80's model which means it could also be color. On the back of each tv set there should be a label with the model number. If you could post the make and model number we might be able to track down the specs. you never know.

>>6268762
I'll pull them back out in a bit. The Panasonic is definitely color. I been putting this off due to the fact I think think the RaidoShack one's black and white, and the fucking Panasonic I don't understand how to tune the channels lol.
Either way, I'll get them both up. But the Panasonic, it has those dials on the bottom to fine-tune channels, never could get a clear picture, there any general tips for when I get it up?

>>6268643
>i can only afford one cord
literally retarded

>>6269056
Never said I couldn't afford multiple cords fuckface. Learn some reading comprehension.

>>6269095
You didn't need to. It's obvious you're a retarded poorfag who can't.

>>6268730
you should be able to tell if a TV's got color even if it won't turn on by just looking at the tube at least medium-close. Is there a shadow mask? then color = yes, otherwise enjoy your Pong or ZX-81

>>6268643

>>6269353
Nice. What's with the double set of cables under the N64 controller?

>>6269353
Good taste. I actually just picked up Shadows of the Empire. Remember playing it at a friend's, but it's been a while. Cool game from what I remember.

I didn't do much research and I bought a really old trinitron with these inputs. How can I achieve the least cancer picture quality?

Just found a boomer off craigslist selling a 13in rf only JVC for $75. Corona couldn't have come sooner.

>>6269614
It's just the standard composite cable. You're going to have mono audio or only one channel though unless you use the RF.

PVMs are a meme if you live in a country where consumer-grade RGB was available. The quality isn't better than a smaller consumer Trinitron running on RGB. The only advantage would be that the service menus are likely better.

>>6269614

If you really wanted a GREAT tv then yeah you're out of luck, but you might be able to sell it to someone who's into the classic look.
I myself purchased a nice old 1973 Trinitron TV just for my Atari 2600.

>serious offers only
>$1k and up
>seller is saying that they have offers of $1,500 that they're not accepting, because "really, it's too low for equipment of this caliber"
>20-year-old equipment that would have been worth $100 a few years ago

Christ, if you "know what you got" so bad, at this point just list it on eBay and get someone to pay $3k for the thing. Also anyone who says that DF did not have a serious detrimental effect is delusional.

>Piece of garbage 43" LCD Smart TV dies just outside the warranty period
>Pain in the ass to take apart due to all the glue, can't be arsed to deal with it
>This comes up for free on FB Marketplace

34" HDCRT. Aside from the fact that my Kallax shelf may not be able to hold this in addition to my 26" D-series, why should I not get it?

>>6270486
Because it weighs a million pounds and you already have a good set for SD content?

>>6270486
Get on my level, I have a 36” trinitron and that mother fucker weighs 220lb

>>6270443
I thank every day I'm not a MLG fag that gives a shit about 5ms lag

Hey guys,
I just built a pc with an ArcadeVGA to connect to my BVM. I got the windows 10 drivers installed and get picture on the screen but it looks like pic attached.
I connected with VGA HD15 to BNC with a T connector for the Sync. Anyone can help me? Thanks!

Here's the connections

>>6270642
Might be obvious but did you try hitting the Sync button? Did you try pushing the sync button without the sync being plugged in? I remember having a similar issue to you on my PVM and it took some finagling around with the sync to get it to work.

Also could be your signal is going out wrong. I'm not sure but I suspect if the signal is wrong it can fuck up your geometry. I noticed my PVM started having geometry issues, but it also coulda been from the speakers I use to have near it.

>>6270642
>>6270641
What resolution are you trying to display?

How do I connect an Apple Monitor /// to a modern PC? It's got a composite in port so I figured I could use the luma signal from component video to get a sharp grayscale (or I guess greenscale) image, but the HDMI to component converter I got just seems to output garbled nonsense. Might be because the resolution is off but I'm not sure how to set Windows 10 to output in 240p.

>>6270674
Get a GPU which can output analog 480i or 240p video, then convert the signal to composite with an external RGB > Composite encoder.

>>6270679
I take it there's no way to do that on a laptop?

>>6270686
Only if you have Linux, Nouveau drivers and understand how xrandr works.

>>6270651
I did hit the sync button. Maybe Ill try without the t connector and also with no connections. I do get this picture with everything connected but the problem is when it goes into windows.
>>6270658
I setup the pc on a 1080p monitor but I want it to go to 480i. I reconnected it to the monitor to change the resolution but it won't let me change it from anything other than 1080p

>>6270686
That is an incorrect assumption.
You just have to find the correct mobile GPU. Quadros should be able to do it for sure, but Radeon/Firepro is also possible.

>>6270731
>but it won't let me change it from anything other than 1080p
Post a screenshot of the screen you're seeing that on.

>>6270982
You can do it via software on Linux like I posted here >>6270713 It takes some techfaggotry though.

>>6270991
It doesn't matter if you use Linux or windows, you're either locked out at the hardware level or you're not. Xrandr can't change that.

>>6271009
You can. I have my desktop output to my PVM. It takes a lot of math but you can output 15 khz or whatever is needed. I modified the script in the description of this video to do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxqifZISdJ4

>>6268643
I regret not buying an old CRT like that that I saw at a garage sale a year or two back.

Moving in a few months. Anyone else have experience with packing 27" and up CRTs when you don't have the original box?

>>6271102
Move it yourself. If you're trusting movers then package it in multiple layered large boxes (2-3) on the outside. Inside the 3 boxes use large scraps of Styrofoam (if you have any), wrap the thing with an entire roll of bubble wrap and then fill the empty space with packing peanuts. Those moving guys don't give a fuck and usually heavy things get the most abuse.

>>6271124
>>6271102
Also create a pocket in the bubble wrap in front of the screen and load it with packing peanuts or put a pillow or something to protect the screen. I also heard it's a good idea to put the TV with the screen facing down so it isn't top heavy and the components don't wobble around, but I might be wrong. Really. If you're trusting movers just go all out. Assume the worst.

>>6271029
You can do that because your GPU allows you to use 15 khz resolutions. You could also do this in Windows.

Changing drivers won't make a difference if the GPU is hardware locked at the firmware level. The only workaround would be flashing the GPU with new firmware to unlock additional frequencies beyond those previously supported. That's what an ArcadeVGA actually is, an off-the-shelf GPU with a hacked firmware.

>>6271130
Very skeptical. I know for a fact I can't do it on windows unless I had some sort of crazy software. My graphics card (Nvidia GTX 660) was made after CRTs were already phased out. I'm highly skeptical you can do this. Also if I use any Linux video driver besides Nouveau this script doesn't work.

>>6271136
>I'm highly skeptical you can do this
Meant to say highly skeptical I could do this on windows, but I brain farted and realized I already typed it without deleting this.

>>6271136
>unless I had some sort of crazy software
The "crazy" software is Nvidia Control Panel if you have a Quadro. Those are unlocked and allow EDID emulation.

There are also options with CRT_Emudriver.
>I'm highly skeptical you can do this
You're out of the loop then. People have been accessing 240p through windows and CRT_emudriver for years now. And before that there was Soft 15khz, groovymame, and advancemame.

> Also if I use any Linux video driver besides Nouveau this script doesn't work.
Because the driver still matters. But the final bottleneck is the GPU firmware.

>>6271143
Kinda surprised you can still output 15khz on modern hardware then. I always thought you needed an older graphics card for it.

>>6270982
It's even more incorrect than you can imagine. Some of the GPUs that were very common in cheap laptops will not only output those resolutions but output them in component over the VGA connector. The idea was that this would allow them to be used as "media centers" or "set top boxes" but since that was never popular you won't hear much about it. The fact that zoomer versions of Windows obscure the video modes doesn't help either. But if you have an old laptop with an Intel "GPU" and no discreet GPU it's likely it can do some pretty cool stuff. Unfortunately it will probably have a shitty CPU that greatly limits the practical use of it.

>>6271148
Part of it comes from lingering assumptions made by ill-informed people who think Quadros cost a fortune or are "not for gaming".

>>6271148
GeForce series cards are troublesome and need extra hardware, but it's possible even with them.

AMD cards can do it through CRT_Emudriver but you may still need a HDMI>RGB converter in some cases if the card doesn't have an analog out.

Quadro series cards should theoretically be able to do it out of the box.

>>6271183
>GeForce series cards are troublesome and need extra hardware, but it's possible even with them.
My 660 is a GeForce though. I don't have any extra hardware either. Just VGA to RGB-Sync. The exact setup this guy has >>6270642

>>6271194
660 is pretty old at this point and might be from the generation when all you needed was a different driver.

>>6271206
Maybe. Who knows. Hard to find info on this stuff. I know it's from around the early 8th gen so CRTs were long dead. I kinda figured the janky ass commands were changing the signal, because going the xrandr route you have to do math based on what resulting signal you want, how may tv lines, etc. Tons of variables and algebra.

>>6271210
>I kinda figured the janky ass commands were changing the signal, because going the xrandr route you have to do math based on what resulting signal you want, how may tv lines, etc.
They -are- changing the signal, but that doesn't matter if the GPU won't allow the modeline to pass through. On new Geforce cards you can set 240p mode through xrandr, but the GPU will just internally line double it back out to 480p.

Anybody have an MS9? I'm picking one up with faulty chassis, and repair would be similar cost to another chassis (working MS9 or a 15K only)
I've heard they can be really finicky with sync and a nightmare for MAME/multiboards. Am I better moving it on/chassis swapping or worth keeping? Have a CRT to swap in

>>6271124
>>6271129
Worked for a moving company one summer in college. I thought I was /fit/ at the time, but holy shit, it's backbreaking work and you leave exhausted at the end of every day.

Everything is about speed and efficiency. We started at 6am and on weekends or weekdays at the end of the month we usually did two moves in a day. Shit got broken all the time. Generally speaking I was pretty careful, but this only drew the ire of my boss and coworkers, who yelled at me to move faster (so we could go home earlier, or make it to the next move, depending on the day of the week). We moved a couple CRTs and my coworkers hated those things, we damaged at least half of them.

If you put the screen face-down, then make sure there is a FUCKTON of padding underneath, because we hard-dropped heavy objects all the time. If you don't put it face-down there is also a risk that the weight will be lopsided, and it may fall off the dolly (yes, this happened once)

Also, this job was a great opportunity to get some fantastic CRTs. I picked up an IBM C220p from someone who was just planning to leave it in his garage. I also managed to snag my Panasonic WV-CM1780. It only does S-video but it's a nice sharp little unit. I was actually quite disappointed when I eventually got a Sony 20M4E, because while the larger size was nice, I didn't see an appreciable quality difference between RGB on that and S-video on my free Panasonic.

>>6270504
>Get on my level, I have a 36” trinitron and that mother fucker weighs 220lb
Only 220lbs? You are like a small baby

>>6271102
>>6271240
Ideally the screen wouldn't be touching the bottom because there would be Styrofoam around the bezel keeping it off the ground. Now that I think about it more though it might be a good idea to have it facing up. Just absolutely not facing forward, and also make sure there is Styrofoam around the bezel so if they put shit ontop of it it's still unlikely to touch the screen.

>>6271226
>he GPU will just internally line double it back out to 480p.
That's pretty dumb. Say. If you put the wrong signal to a PVM will it fuck up it's hardware? I noticed I was having some geometry issues after trying to get my xrandr values right.

>>6271250
Styrofoam around the bezel is a good idea, and I've heard that cutting a pool noodle and wrapping it around the bezel works well in that regard. However, I've heard that having the screen up can cause the neck to break more easily.

>>6271248
>Make sure that the floor is strong enough.

>>6271298
What a silly warning. There's people in America who weigh more than that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-DDbXh1MYc

>>6271305
It was built by Japs in 1989, anon. They didn't know.

>>6271317
Don't they have sumo wrestlers?

How am I going to find a 480p 60hz CRT that's compatible with RGB SCART cables?

>>6271360
As an uneducated burger baby there's almost no chance of you finding one. It might be possible to educate yourself enough to find an alternative solution to your actual goal that's available in your area though.

Is there an agreed upon "best" CRT? I want to have one to hook up all my retro consoles.

>>6271472
A "proper" retro set-up would have five or more CRTs for different types of games.

>>6271472
>Is there an agreed upon "best" CRT?
Trinitrons and JVC are best ones that aren't meme status.
PVMs are harder to come by or more expensive
BVMs are like PVMs but better, even harder to come by and even more expensive.
Then there's a ton of ones you will never find without getting extremely lucky when digging or a fuckton of money like certain BVMs and the GDM-FW900

>>6271305
>1:40 mark
>tfw a human being weighs only 12 pounds less than a massive 45" CRT television with a fuckton of lead glass and a warning from the manufacturer that it might break your floor if you put it down in the wrong place

>>6271490
The owner of the manager does this all out of spite. He has somebodies ashes in a little baggie that he waves around. I don't know if it was his spokes person, who was one of the fattest people int he state, or a dead customer.

>>6271492
>owner of the manager
Man I had a brainfart with that one.

>>6271360
Anything above 480i will introduce input lag.

>>6271472
The best CRT is one you can get cheaply, in good shape, with low hours and is close by.

>>6268643
just got my hands on a Toshiba 20AF46 for 40 bucks is it good ?

the one time I go to read the previous thread and the OP didn't fucking link it

>>6271541
Here ya go >>6235701

>>6271484
>BVMs are like PVMs but better
Subjective. Different people like different dot pitch

>>6271584
I guess it'd be better to say they're more coveted because of how rare and higher end they are.

>>6271506
>source: my zoomer ass

>>6271360
Get a VGA CRT and something like an ossc

The crt I have cuts off a small portion of every game I play on it, it shouldn’t be a big deal but it bugs the shit out of me.

>>6271618
change the settings, and if they don't give you good enough settings (either on screen or internally) just get a new TV
my old magnavox had a setting called picture that changed not only the brightness but also the overscan at the same time. that was weird

>>6270443
The guy's a clown if he's actually turning down 1.5k for that, but it's not like there's a glut of widescreen crt monitors for sale. Sometimes shit's overpriced for a reason beyond just being a meme.

>>6271601
Actually works pretty well at 960p with fake scanlines and a gamma boost on the monitor.

>>6270443
>King of CRTs
King at doing what exactly?
King of specs on paper is more like it.

>>6270486
Just buy another 4K flatscreen for widescreen/HD content. HDCRTs just aren't worth it.

>>6271484
>Trinitrons
>not memes
You're 4 years too late to say that. Anything with a SONY logo on it costs absurd amounts.

After way too many years and hours invested in chasing the best picture possible for video games I have come to the conclusion that the definitive way to play is with the video cable(s) that came in the box with the system on a consumer display manufactured within 5 years +/- of the release date of the console.

>>6270486
Get it now, or regret it later.
>>6272230
The only thing comparable to that HDCRT is an OLED.

>>6272401
t. composhit only crt user

>>6272420
I've used RGB on monitors that cost $29,999 when they were new. Composite looks better because it's necessary to see the graphics properly.

can anyone ID the unit in this picture? Thanks

>>6272601
>Implying a crt would have legs like that
Not a crt

>>6272630
Before somebody gets wise, I'll amend:
>Implying there's a Trinitron model with legs like that

We got rid of our CRT's years ago but damn it... I'd love to own one again... especially an old Sony or Sanyo.

>>6272601
Looks like a sony, Not a CRT but I will do my best to identify this early Flatscreen.

>>6272648
Is there a hoarder who set up a bot to leave comments like this or something?

>>6272601
Hard to say. It's an old model and hasn't been well maintained. Even though the seller has tried to obscure the key parts you can still see that they have seen a lot of use/misuse and are well past their prime. You can be sure this unit is going to be nothing but trouble and require a lot of maintenance.

>>6270985
I managed to get it 640x480 by connecting it to an old lcd monitor but same problem arrises on the bvm.

>>6272729
has to be 480i though. That monitor is prob 480p

>>6272652
thanks

>>6271521
anyone

>>6271521
>>6272937
Think my friend had one. It's ok. Of course we didn't have a super autistic setup. I'd prob grab it for that price if I wanted another CRT.

Man, I'm new to this and it's hard as fuck to find a good one for cheap. Everything cheap on Craigslist is 100lb huge motherfuckers with no component inputs.

>>6272956
People are aware they're worth something and scalping the hell out of them. If you want cheap/free your best bet is to checkout local electronic recycling facilities/events.

>>6272956
Don't worry about the component input. Look for something that's in good shape in the size you want with s-video.

>>6272729
What operating system are you using?

>>6271521
It's a 20" SD CRT with component input. It's an A grade display for /vr/. 40 dollars is a good price and it will go up in value over the next several years.

>>6271484
>Trinitrons and JVC are best ones that aren't meme status.
NEC XM is the Lambo of CRTs imo. PVM/BVM are for plebs.

>>6268643
Take them both. If you are good enough to fix one you should fix them both.

>>6269353
Nicely visible scanlines there.

>>6271248
When I was first getting into the CRT hobby I swear there were 50" CRTs for sale on ebay that were pieces of a video wall.

>>6273184
After some reading on the subject I believe those units I saw for sale were rear projection. And it lead me down a strange path to learn that Barco and Marquee both made rear projection monitors. Not televisions, but proper computer monitors will all the same specs as their front projection systems.

Somewhere out in the world there may be a few of these amazing things left.

>>6269372
that was for screen capturing with a startech card
i am not interested in capturing my gameplay anymore so its gone now. less wires now.

>>6273219
They're around. I remember seeing them when they were the hot new thing. Personally I always thought they looked like dogshit. Everyone I've seen has had a distinct red tint to it.

>>6273243
Where have you seen a Barco Retro Data?

>>6273331
I don't know about that exact one but rear-projection CRTs in general back in the day a were really common in middle to upper-middle class homes. In recent times I've seen them on Craiglist occasionally. If you're asking for that exact brand? I don't know. They kinda all blur together for me.

>>6273331
>>6273339
>Not televisions, but proper computer monitors will all the same specs as their front projection systems.
I somehow missed this part of your post. Please excuse my retardation.

>>6273339
>>6273371
Yeah, this is a completely different beast. Barco is a top of the line brand in professional video equipment. Their projectors are used in auditoriums, museums, theme parks, concerts, things like that.

According to the spec sheet this RetroData 808s should be able to display 1280x1024@100hz or 1600x1200@70hz.

Most likely with zero input delay or additional processing of any kind. Like a computer monitor. Imagine playing a racing game or FPS in 100 fps on one of these.

https://www.barco.com/en/product/retrodata-808s--iris#specs

Here's another interesting link:
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/BarcoRetroData801s_Brochure.pdf

>>6273387
It sounds really cool. I'd just wanna see it in person first, because a lot of rear projection TVs look pretty bad. Although, if this is a monitor it might actually pull it off.

>>6273184
And here is the video wall in question. I remember these were enormous cubes. They have a lot of depth to them when you see one of them by themselves.

>>6273395
Here is a Sony equivalent type of unit.
>>6273389
These are in a whole different league than the consumer stuff.

These are a whole territory of CRT not well explored.

>>6273398
>>6273402
Wonder if those would be possible to manufacture rather than the traditional tube monitor.

>>6273417
I would figure making the tubes for a CRT projector is at least as difficult as making a traditional CRT monitor. Then you've got all the additional exotic hardware necessary.

>>6273428
That looks like a shader.

>>6273438
I wanted to see if I could make it look good enough to be mistaken for the real thing, but I've probably got a long way to go.

Rear projection? more like trash

>>6273439
You could have taken a real photo of your screen.

>>6273467
holy shit i'm fucking dumb

>>6273436
Well the benefit of having 3 mono tubes is that you don't need a focusing grille, which is really the most difficult manufacturing hitch (besides the electron guns themselves)

>>6273439
What gives it away is always the perfect grid of pixels. No crt looks exactly like that

Sony made these 40" high resolution rear projection CRT monitors. The specs are in this link:
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/STARINMANUALS/Sony%20Video/Archive/1999%20Catalog%20-%20VP%20Projector.pdf

Being such a small screen the image should be very bright as far as projectors go. Sony made some widescreen rear projection HDTVs a few years later from this. But those would not do high refresh rates like this would. This monitor should be able to resolve 1024x768@100hz.
Finding one of these would be a matter of sheer dumb luck these days.

>>6273484
are the tubs in this aimed at a mirror/lens or are they just directly behind the screen?

>>6273493
I don't know. My guess is a mirror considering the extremely short throw. But there are LCD short throw projectors with special lenses in them that don't use mirrors.

I missed something earlier
>Being such a small screen the image should be very bright as far as projectors go
yeaaahhh no
>Brightness:ANSI*4: 73 cd/m2(73 nits) (fH: 85 kHz, fV: 50 Hz)

73 nits is not very bright at all. Like you could not make out much on the screen in anything other than a completely dark room. It would be like a 250 lumen front projector. Which is to say: shit. Worse than RPTVs you've seen.

But in a dark room the performance would be great.

>>6273481
I see. Thank you for the input. At the moment I am unable to use a CRT so in the meantime I am trying to use shaders to compensate. I'm new at this so I'll probably be tweaking settings for a while until I've got it right.

>>6270641
Are you trying to get RGB + composite sync by just tying the vertical and horizontal sync lines together?

>>6271248
Still never seen a picture of a real one.

>>6273127
It's windows 10

Are they really going to make me buy a 33ft cable because it's the cheapest option.

>>6273890

>>6274283
>>6273890

>>6274387
Pretty sure this one is the KX-45ED1, which is basically the consumer equivalent to the 4300.

>>6272601
Filthy coomer

>>6272601
Sony KE-42TS2

Similar: Sony KLV-32M1 / L32M1, Sony Bravia KLV-S32A10, Sony KDL20S3020-20.

>>6273889
Yea I also clicked on csync enabled in Catalyst control center

>>6275357
holy shit, thanks !

>>6275490
>you enabled csync but are feeding two lines in
I have a feeling you don't know what you're doing.

On another note…
Reminder that the huge gaping void between lines on pro sets displaying 240p are a defect caused by their being tuned better for 480i. Your screen should not be 50% black.
Spoilered for not /vr/; it's 480p from a gamecube

>>6274387

hawt

>>6275668
>Reminder that the huge gaping void between lines on pro sets displaying 240p are a defect caused by their being tuned better for 480i.
One day it's going to come full circle and people will be looking for old consumer televisions with low TVL

>>6275514
:)

I figure this is the best place for me to ask this question:
I'm going to come into possession of an IBM 8512 monitor, a 12" CRT that's VGA compatible (I believe one of the very first) and perfect for my needs. But I've considered doing some woodworking to replace the plastic shell and make it look more homely and furniture-like, which I'd ultimately prefer. Have anyone here ever tried something similar? What was your experience? It occurs to me that wood might not be ideal, but that resin impregnation might help fight against any fire-hazard potential/long-term warping of the wood.

>>6275989
It's doable, just use thick, durable wood. Got a 28" mounted that way

Two monitors I found in an old mobile uplink truck at work. They've been used in broadcasting for more than a decade, getting the shit kicked out of them, and they still work.

>>6276037
BVM-9045s?

I acquired the monitor set of an OB truck a while back, 15 BVM-D9H5 multiformats with HD-SDI input cards. Not decided what to do with them yet.

>>6275989
Some PC monitors have a metal cage around them that will support the whole chassis + yoke and tube. If you take the back of the plastic case off you can see if it's one of those. If so putting it into a wooden case should be a fairly easy and I'd love to see that done because it's a project I've thought of doing many times.

If it doesn't have the cage then it's a lot more troublesome to work with, and I'd recommend keeping the the plastic case together and just putting the whole thing in a wooden casing. I wouldn't worry too much about air flow since you can drill vent holes, but if necessary you can use a small, low RPM fan to make up the difference.

>>6276020
pics?

>>6276037
Sell them on ebay for $200 each, then use the money to get a non-meme CRT you'll actually want to play games on. Something like this 27" Toshiba with component input.

>>6270731
>those skelly legs

Random thought: the monitors in the old dedicated Primal Rage cabinets always looked so crisp and colorful. Probably the best looking arcade game I can remember in the 90s.

Well, a little bit of research says that the monitor in those cabs was a Neotec NT-2515C. That same monitor is found in some Neo Geo 6 slot machines.

Now, most any of these monitors that are still around are going to be a shadow of their former glory. They'll have had countless hours of usage after they were converted to games like Police Trainer or Big Buck Hunter or whatever.

But with some sleuthing it could probably be determined what manner of tube was used in those monitors and what sort of television used an identical model.

>>6277161
Here are the specs on the monitor.
That 0.82mm dot pitch is really coarse. The scanlines would be very faint on this monitor. The P22 phosphors are the standard type of phosphor used in televisions iirc.

The tube part number is A63LAT80X63ME. Google doesn't provide much help in decoding that to figure out where else it might have been used.

>>6277178
>Google doesn't provide much help in decoding that to figure out where else it might have been used.
Scratch that, this helps.
https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/CRT_designation_systems

>>6277178
This old thread on arcadecontrols suggests the tube was made by Zenith.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=152608.0
and another here on arcade-musem
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/archive/index.php/t-279681.html
>all the Neotecs I've seen were on Zenith tubes
In that case a person could look at 25" Zenith televisions made in the mid-90s and maybe find a tube that will mate with the chassis.

This one was made in 1994, is a 25", and has the same look about it. It's called a "Zenith Sentry 2". Maybe? Unfortunately the best connection on the back is composite video.

Here are Zenith service manuals:
https://www.samswebsite.com/en/photofact/search/index/page/627/brand/ZENITH
Too bad you have to pay for them. But it's a good list of model numbers to look for. Some of them may have had s-video. And if they have an OSD there is the potential for RGB injection mods.

>>6275668
All NTSC TVs will be 50% black given a 240p signal, it's part of their design. A "pro" set meant for 480i won't look too different from any regular TV, but those meme HR Trinitron PVMs with 800TVL are going to look bad with old consoles.

>>6276692
Away from home! I'm going to assume you know basic safety etc and skip the zap warnings.
In my case I had a frame so it was a bit easier. If you're just taking the shell off there will be 4 holes at each corner where you can bolt it onto something, and then need to secure the chassis (PCB feet are great for this)
I'd suggest use thick ply (around 12 - 18mm but depends on weight. Should be safe around the lower end)
Make sure you have ventilation, and if you want to cover the bolts on the front you can put the tube face down, trace it and cut that from wood to slap on the front, or use plexiglass with sides darkened.
Another thing, try to secure two ears to one solid piece of wood (orientation doesn't matter), stabilises it really well. If you're still a bit unsure have a look at how old arcade cabs did it.
The other option is to get a good part of the case colour matched, bog any damage, sand and repaint.
Sorry for lack of photo but hope this helps!

>>6276723

Eugenia Cooney likes PVMs?

My old new boy.

>>6268643

Does anyone have a huge list with televisions based on their input, resolution, and other factors? I'm willing to spend a lot of money I just want all the information.

>>6277414
There are some lists floating around, but what are you looking for?

>>6277264
They're ~50% black when displaying 480i too, just where the black is moves.

Found this list of standard definition televisions:
http://www.audioreview.com/televisions/standard-televisions.html

With google you can filter these results by using the site:audioreview.com/product/televisions/standard-televisions/ option.

This works with CNET as well
site:cnet.com/products/

You can use quotes and the AND function to narrow results. Both of these sites will let you find all kinds of interesting CRTs that are suitable for /vr/ purposes beyond the usual Sony and JVC units.

Like this 36" Zenith console television with s-video input and 530 TVL. I am sure RGB injection is possible on a television of this age. If you wanted to. I would just stick with the s-video. The image from this TV would be very "full" with faint scanlines at 240p and gently rounded pixels without any loss in detail.

But wouldn't it look great in a game room?

If anyone's in south Texas, I'm giving away three of my CRTs because I'm moving and I'd rather not see them go to the dump. They include this 17" Toshiba, a 27" Montgomery Ward set with S-Video, and an 23" RCA XL-100. Unfortunately, the first two have capacitor issues, and the RCA has a broken plug.

How do I go about changing the region on this thing? I'm in the secret menu but none of the buttons or information on the screen makes any sense. PVM-1454QM

>>6277520
RGB Scart NTSC tvs

>>6277751
Very helpful, thank you

>>6277830
>changing the region
What did anon mean by this?

>>6277830
Keep scrolling through the menu options. Eventually the region will change.

>>6278278
>>6278317
Do I even need to change the region? It's taking NTSC 240p fine, it's a little bit shifted to the upper right which is maybe a geometry issue. I thought that maybe if I set the monitor to NTSC instead of it's default PAL it would line up better.

>>6278330
I think it can detect the region.

>>6278330
>it's a little bit shifted to the upper right which is maybe a geometry issue.
I have the same monitor and I have the same issues but on the upper left. I think I fucked it up because I had my speakers next to it and I also put the wrong signal in a few times (was connected to a computer which occasionally put out 30khz instead of 15khz)

Right now I've got a broken Wega that looks really good and the tube works but it's component input doesn't work. God I just want 480p but everything is heavy and expensive as shit.

>>6279041
>but it's component input doesn't work.
why not?
what have you done to test it?

>>6279093
The Y signal is fucked somehow, like it's not receiving the sync properly. I've opened it up and looked for any traces that could've been broken but I hate fucking with crts and also it weighs like 90KG or something and it's really not worth keeping around.

>>6279106
>it's really not worth keeping around
what model is it

>>6279108
KV-EH36M31

>>6277264
>it's part of their design.
Yeah, and that's because they are designed for 480i.
Also, no, TVL on most consumer sets isn't high enough for interlaced lines to not overlap. Only the best consumer sets and proper monitors would actually be around 50% dark with 240p.
>>6277743
>They're ~50% black when displaying 480i too, just where the black is moves.
You're retarded and forgetting about phosphor decay times.

I don't have a super huge problem with the 'combed' look, but TV's and 480i monitors were not designed with 240p in mind. It is technically an unintentional side effect of their TVL.
>>6275902
>One day it's going to come full circle and people will be looking for old consumer televisions with low TVL
That could be. Especially as CRT's in general get gradually scarcer year by year.

>>6277398
Cute and rotated. Also based other than the rotation.

>>6279283
>>6277264
Televisions and monitors are not 50% black when displaying a 240p signal, or any signal at all for that matter. The percent black is going to be a result of the combination of screen pitch, screen tech, resolution (more properly the modeline since there a bunch of extra things to consider. I think "beam width" is one of the ones we're looking at here), and some various aspects of the overall technology of the CRT.

Scanlines, and this time I mean the actual real scanlines aka the lines of video being drawn on the screen are wider than the gaps between them on a good CRT image. Lines of graphics should be thick and gaps should be faint.
It's only when you run a resolution which is very low compared to the limit of the screen type that you get those thick black lines that looks as thick as the lines of video drawn. (we should just informally call this the screen mask even though aperture grille doesn't really use a "mask")

If you run a resolution which is beyond the capabilities of the screen mask you will barely have any gaps at all. The lines of video are so crammed together they start to blur together.

CRTs don't just draw a line, skip a space the same thickness of that line, and then draw the next one.

>>6279283
That's a shader on a PC CRT isn't it?

>>6279283
By the way I agree with most of your posts and the notion that thick scanlines (gaps) are an unwanted visual artifact. People who pay hundreds of dollars for BVMs to play 240p games are silly imo.

>>6279364
I was thinking the same. It looks really weird. Like it's trying to imitate dot-mask but the circles are way too crisp, clear and uniform.

>>6279402
The circles and the dot mask are very real and look just like a PC CRT. But the beam thickness compared to the scanline thickness is too great for it to be 240p120. So I am guessing a scanline shader on a real PC CRT.

If you were a wealthy Patrick Bateman type, what would your preferred CRT and entertainment system setup be?

>>6279520
Batemen would have a huge OLED since it's the newest tech. Then he'd either have a OSSC or go full HTPC with RetroArch.

>>6279520
If I was actually in the 80s, a PVM-2530.

>>6279520

Did jvc ever release anything similar to the much sought after Sony xbr960? The i'art sets seem close. I'm trying to collect a few high quality shadow mask sets to compliment my trinis

>>6279731
Yes. There were all kinds of widescreen CRT HDTVs released.

/vr/, crtgaming, youtube, and other places have such a hard-on for Sony that it's become ridiculous and lots of great old CRTs get tossed or largely left undocumented on the internet.

>>6275989
please don't.

>>6279283
Phosphor decay is way faster than the field refresh

>>6279820
That one looks solid. I noticed also that the bvms and pvms are far more reasonably priced compared to sony.

>>6279364
>>6279402
No. It's a Panasonic BT-H1390YN. It's just an RGB monitor.
What's with everyone thinking it's a shader these days whenever I post a picture of it? It's just a really "low mileage" tri-dot set.

Protip: anything close-up with a good camera lens can look good.

>>6280219
Before level adjustment (a little underexposed in this shot)

>>6280219
I guess we're all just use to looking at aperture grill monitors that are that clean. Maybe I should think about getting a shadow mask PVM.

>>6280226
>>6280227
If it's a shadow mask it's not a PVM. PVM is a sony product line designation.
But I still know what you mean. I have a PVM-1944Q and find that I prefer my panasonic unless I'm playing with others and we need a bigger screen.

>>6280230
It's just easier to type PVM than Professional Monitor.

>>6280240
Yeah, that's why I said "I get it."
>>6279360
>are not 50% black
OK, what do you call this on my PVM-1944Q then. That's pretty close to having black areas as wide as the raster lines.

>>6279364
Oh, I should mention:
The dot pitch on my Panasonic is 0.28mm, the same as on some old 480p computer monitors (example: Commodore 1942), so I guess there IS a similarity. But mine isn't set up to work with 480p unfortunately.

>>6280247
that's 750TVL btw

Is it theoretically possible for a flat panel display to perfectly replicate the CRT look? Let's imagine it's 16k with a 120hZ refresh rate.

>>6280252
define 'perfect.'
To humans in real world scenarios? definitely. But on a physical level, unless each pixel is the size of a single molecule of the smallest phosphor used in the set, you wouldn't be able to make a 'perfectly' round dot for a tri-dot screen.

In a non-pedantic sense, sure, but it depends on another variable that you didn't give (screen size). 1920x1080 for instance is a lot more pixellated at 52" than at 14".

>>6280252
It has to have more colors than a CRT (OLED or MicroLED), it'd have to be at seriously high resolution to mimic the exact shape of the pixels, and even then I'm not sure because the way the light is projected is different.

>>6280268
oh shit, forgot about viewing angles. Good catch.

>>6280245
Your PVM is a 600 TVL monitor with an aperture grille display. Of course it's going to have thick scanlines. And it is also atypical of the type of display referenced in the post that started this discussion
>All NTSC TVs will be 50% black given a 240p signal, it's part of their design
Which is incorrect.

You even said it yourself here
>>6279283
>Only the best consumer sets and proper monitors would actually be around 50% dark with 240p.

You have a monitor which happens to hit a TVL count and technology that makes the screen appear around 50% black (I think it's more like 33%. Look at 240p on a 1000TVL CRT to see 50% black).

>>6280292
Ah, but I was talking about best consumer sets and proper monitors.
And I am the guy that >>6277264 was replying to. >>6277264 is wrong, I agree.

>>6280247
I have a 19" PC CRT with a dot pitch of 0.28mm and that photo is basically exactly what mine looks like with a shader running on it at 2048x1536. I can also run 240p120 on it, but I've never bothered to take a photo of the screen at the time.

>>6280252
Absolutely not. There's more to a CRT than electron guns and phosphors. There's glass. And the way that glass diffuses light is never going to be replicated by a flat panel.

>>6280305
Nice.
I have a zelda shot here too (at 240p60 obviously, from a 1chip snes)

>>6280308
>>6280305
(Although I can tell you likely have a proper camera for your PC CRT shot)

might be slightly off topic but what CRTs would have been used with hi-vision LDs back in the day?

>>6280319
Sony KW-3200HD is one apparently.
There's also an unnamed RCA set at the bottom of this forum thread https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2329

>>6280319
Looks like this might have been one

https://mobile.twitter.com/hn12v1_jp/status/939259534773649408

>>6280325
Pretty interesting actually, has to be the first or close to it, consumer HDCRT?

>>6280309
Side by side the difference in actual dot size is apparent. If this PC monitor had a TVL count it would be in the 1200+ TVL ballpark. 240p120 on the PC monitor would not look nearly as close as the shader does to your Panasonic.

>>6280323
>>6280325
thank you anons doing gods work.

>>6280337
The Zelda pic is old, and from when I was just trying to recreate the PVM look.
These days I go full hipster and emulate composite video.

I've never been much of a CRT photographer, and my digital camera has a low megapixel count. I assure you in person the effect is extremely convincing.

>>6270486
Might be good for 720p content. I'd still like to see native 720p xbox games running on a CRT.

I saw this, now you all have to.
https://www.mini-itx.com/2014/10/09/the-restomod-tv-reinvents-an-80s-crt-television-as-a-mini-itx-powered-openelec-media-center

>>6280441
>80's CRT
It was probably on its way to a landfill anyways.

I <3 my pvm

>>6269850
>The quality isn't better than a smaller consumer Trinitron running on RGB
Delusional.

>>6280606
Good for you.

>>6278330
looks like you don't understand what PAL, NTSC or region means

>>6280625
Read his post again
>PVMs are a meme if you live in a country where consumer-grade RGB was available.
he's referring to RGB SCART
which would have been on consumer Trinitrons
like this one:
http://obsoletetellyemuseum.blogspot.com/2011/04/sony-kv-c27-ta-year-1988.html

With RGB and aperture grille the only difference between these an a PVM is the TVL count and general quality of components. Sometimes PVMs have higher TVL, sometimes they don't.

In any case the image out of a SCART RGB 90s Trinitron would be superb.

>>6280252
You can get pretty good results with crt-royale at 8k and even 4k but I can only show a portion of the screen because I only have a 1080p screen.

>>6279597
I got one of these at a yard sale in 2016 for the grand total of $2. The people just wanted to be rid of it and were planning to take it to the dump if it didn't sell after 2 days. Best /crt/ deal I've ever come across, and a huge upgrade over the Viewsonic E70 I was using before (which is still really good for a mass-market CRT).

I'm pretty sure the tube is a Diamondtron 2070sb. My understanding is that these are overall fantastic tubes. They're not as sharp as the equivalent Sony units, but then they also don't have that weird Trinitron "get too bright over time" issue.

>>6280803
Could this theoretically be done to real hardware through an upscaler?

>>6281651
Not sure. Crt-royale requires a good GPU to run smoothly at higher resolutions like 4k. Taking that screenshot at 8k was hard because of the incredibly low framerate. I haven't heard of any upscaler that can run shaders though, and they're nowhere near powerful enough to do this.

>>6281651
Yes, but as of right now I do not know anyone who has gone through the steps to do it.

You need
>a capture card
>reshade, and the ported RetroArch shaders (CRT-Aperture, CRT-Hylian, and CRT-Easymode)
>a program which will display your captured video and works with reshade to allow the shaders to be applied

There might be lag, but I don't see any technical reason why it could not be done.

I bought a FS7550 recently. Will this serve me well for PC games, or should I look for something else in the meantime?

>>6281651
>theoretically
Of course

>>6281834
Literally retarded. How do you think upscalers upscale if they don't capture?

>>6282647
Show me an upscaler that supports CRT-Royale. It doesn't exist.

The method I outlined is the only way you can use Retroarch-style shaders with real hardware right now. The OSSC does not do the same thing.

>>6277178
>Rise and Fall Time 15/25 nanoseconds
There's no way that's referring to the Phosphor Decay times is it?

>>6280252
Yes. I don't know what you're on about with the 120hz nonsense though.

The key to perfectly replicating a CRT lies in at least 8K Resolution/High DPI with shit-tons of brightness(to combat brightness loss during usage of BFI/Strobing combined with Shaders) as well as Variable Refresh Rate/G-Sync to perfectly sync to the various odd refresh rates retro games used.

MicroLED will achieve this whenever it comes out. We'll finally have displays that aren't dogshit again.

>>6281651
Depends on how powerful the hardware is.
5 to 10 years from now when MicroLED comes out you'll see somebody come out with a Framemeister/OSSC 2.0 that interfaces with real hardware and handles this at 1000 smackaronis a pop.
You'll then have to mod all of your consoles for HDMI digital output for best results.

>>6280652
I read it fine the first time.
The difference between a PVM/BVM and a consumer set is night and day RGB Scart or not.

>>6282668
Show me reading comprehension first faggot. Maybe the only way (You) can do it is that retarded shit you haven't even done. Not everyone is a stupid zoomer incapable of doing anything more than connecting a few cables.

where the heck do i get one of these bad boys is Australia? god damn no one has one.

>>6283384
They'll probably become available in Australia a few year after they in in NZ.

>>6282847
You're not making sense anymore because you're too busy acting angry on the internet.
Write your method to recreate >>6280803 with real consoles in plain English.

>>6269576
the swoop level is really hard for me to get past.
i guess the n64 controller fails on that level.

>>6281651
OSSC pro could probably do it?

>>6283545
According to this article the full frame buffer mode will have a version of it. But I doubt it will be able to do anything close to what you can do with a PC. It just won't have enough power.
https://videogameperfection.com/2020/01/18/ossc-pro-is-coming/

>>6282685
I think it's referring to the video signal itself. As in the rise and fall of the waveform.

>>6283507
>i can't understand english so it's your fault. rite in zoomer plx
Apply yourself

So a while back I did a part swap on a PVM 8045Q and a pvm 8044Q. I moved the purpled CRT from the 45 to the 44 and visa versa.
For a while it seemed to work perfectly, allowing for a perfect signal, but as my servicing skills improved, I noticed the picture was stretched horizontally. After going into the menu and fiddling with the pots I got it to the correct ratio, but then I noticed the screen seemed rather purple again( a bit with a picture going), but more importantly had these scrolling lines that would muddle the image. After noticing I continued to do more fiddling and noticed that if I input no picture, and turned the brightness up I saw pic related. It seems as though it may have even gotten worse by fiddling in there, but I can't tell anymore.

Is there anything I can do to fix this beyond maybe replacing the pots? Last time I did that on a monitor, it wouldn't stop blowing fuses.
more pictures if you guys need any.

>>6268643
You should take a sledgehammer to both, CRTs more fun to destroy. Ironically retro games actually look better on HD monitors because you can actually see the whole picture on the screen at once and you don't have any disgusting geometry issues.

I recently got this RCA 20F510TD and I noticed the picture is tilted slightly, only really noticeable in menu screens but it bothers me a little. Been googling for a way to get into the service menu everywhere but no luck with any of the methods. Can anyone help me out?

verdict on the toshiba 34hf85? I don't care about supposed input lag btw

>>6284538
Get it.
Get it now or regret it.

>>6284584
I am planning to do just that. I'm pleased that it has an invar shadow mask and weighs significantly less than an equivalent sony.

>>6284359
Do you have the remote

>>6282641
It's a meh monitor. One was up for sale for the longest time in my city and I didn't bother biting. 1600x1200, but only at 65 Hz. It'll do for older 640x480 or 1024x768 content but it's a pretty run of the mill mass-market CRT.

>>6284893
I appreciate it. Are the colors good at least?

>>6284538
Pretty good choice. Great for 6th gen, too.

i'm going to open up my trinitron to try and fix it, how do i not kill myself?

>>6286552
Pretty much any CRT is going to have decent colours. Can’t comment on that one specifically.

>Daily reminder that PVM's are meme and overpriced compared to a solid consumer set.

>>6287118
Are there really people who think the right two look better?

>>6287118
Most PVMs aren't BVMs with 1000 TVL.

Found on crtgaming

BVM vs PC CRT.
Both in 240p.

>>6287158
Yeah and they will pay a grand then drive 8 hours to bring it home

>>6286738
don't lick high voltage suction cup

>>6287189
interesting. with results like this, I may have to give crt monitors another look

>>6287189
PVM owners on suicide watch

>>6287118
Left are the only 2 that don't look like they're behind prison bars. Even then, the RGB one still looks really blocky. Yeah the composite smears the colors all together but you can still see everything on him. The eyes look cuter, you can still see his shield, pink and green hat, green shirt etc

>>6287189
>>6287606
>$700 meme tube can compete with a Viewsonic from the e-waste pile

Although that being said, I would be curious to see this in person, since there is a lot that is lost when the image is compressed. Also the geometry on that G220f looks off.

>>6287809
It's not like it takes a lot of setup. I dumped 320x240@120 to my PC CRT and basically got similar results after basic adjustments

Am I doing it right, Ching Chang?!

>>6287809
I've done this experiment myself and the biggest difference is the video monitor is a lot brighter.

However, 240p120 causes blur. You're better off to use shaders with a PC CRT which gives you the ability to create scanlines that look more like two left images in >>6287118
or like a PVM (not a BVM) if you prefer. And you can do it with normal video modes instead of having to mess about with custom resolutions.

>>6270731
>those legs
r u alien??

got a little trinitron flat screen that sadly only has composite and mono audio. but i found this RGB mod. hopefully i can figure out how to get s-video and component.

https://imgur.com/gallery/42kRH

>>6288563
What region is that from?

>>6288563
Could a person buy the PAL chassis for a television like this off of ebay.co.uk and mate it to a NTSC television with the same tube?
Just thinking it's unlikely the chassis would be damaged in shipping and would weigh a lot less.

>>6268643
>TFW this killed the CRT
Also are short throw laser projectors a viable alternative.

>>6282735
There is literally no difference between some PVMs and Trinitron televisions when both are fed an RGB signal. They have the exact same picture tube.

>>6288670
No. The alternative is OLED. Which are five times the price of a good CRT.
So just stick with CRT for now unless you plan on replacing your living room TV. They're not that hard to find.

I wanna hook up my computer to my pvm 8045, what converter do I need to do that. I literally can't find any guides on how to do this anywhere. Pls help

>>6288736
Describe the specifications of your computer.

>>6288736
Sorry I don't have an answer, but I want to know how to do this too.

In my case though, it's a PVM 2530

>>6288736
https://www.aussiearcade.com/forum/arcade/m-a-m-e-emulation-projects-and-discussion/89704-a-guide-to-connecting-your-windows-pc-to-an-sd-crt-tv-pvm-or-arcade-monitor

It's not everything, but should give you an idea of where you want to start.

>>6288690
The tubes in the older but not the newer cube PVMs were used in consumer sets, but apart from that no, the tubes are not the same. Consumer trinitrons in good condition are lovely, but the pro-monitor tubes had much higher TVL/clarity.

Not

>>6283384
You mean a pro monitor?

>>6288805
Ignore the
>Not
didn't mean to post that

>>6287606
Hardly, the motion isn't right and the PC CRT is dimmer. Still very nice, but not S tier.

>>6287701
Try to sit further than six inches from the screen, anon. That'll help.

>>6271143
>>6271174
Have you used the EDID-emulation function yourself? I find it a complete pain in the ass, and would use the below every time. Unless i had an old brick of laptop with a Quadro, which i do, along with other setups.

>>6271130
Yeah, let's not recommend AVGA, hey? crt_emudriver is superior in every way, especially price.

>>6271183
What hardware are you talking about for Nvidia? I thought were were in the "it works for me" territory there, where no one can explain what works and what doesn't like >>6271194 notes.

>>6273387
phwoar, now i need to see one :)

>>6288736
Careful though. I hooked up my PVM to my PC and occasionally it sends the wrong signal. Now my PVM has very subtle geometry issues. I worry if I fucked up the components. It could've been from something else I did though.

>>6288753
R9 290 only has a hdmi vga and dvi outputs. and my pvm only has s-video and rgb.
>>6288781
thank you nice guy.

>>6288921
>hooked up my PVM to my PC and occasionally it sends the wrong signal
Can you not address that? What's the issue?

>>6289023
I'm running it off Linux. I can't get the resolution set until I run my script which sets it, which requires me to log in first.

>>6288926
You need CRT_Emudriver.
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
You have a Radeon R9 200 series so download the appropriate Windows 7 or 10 driver.

You also need a DVI-I to VGA adapter, and then a VGA to RGBHV or RGBS cable. You'll have to look up what kind of sync your PVM needs. If it will accept combined sync or just H-sync then you don't need anything else. I think this is likely to be the scenario. If so then all you need is a BNC t-connector to combine the H and V sync or a cable which already does it for you.

Then you have to configure your drivers and emulation software.

>>6288897
Yeah, I would never actually recommend an ArcadeVGA now. They are pretty well obsolete.

I have done EDID-emulation and it is as you say: a pain in the ass. I would avoid it if possible but it -does- work.

>>6288897
I haven't kept up with all the new generations of cards since they come out every year and cost so much new. All I know is somewhere around the 700 series problems started to pop up for people.

I have successfully done 240p120 with a GTX 960, but the same card wouldn't allow 240p60 to pass through.

>>6288805
I'm talking about the older ones. Those are PVMs too.
They had those Profeel things too. Don't know much about them but wouldn't be surprised if they had the same tubes as PVMs of that generation.

>>6289058

>>6289058
forgot the link
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649348975-sony-profeel-kv2900-multi-system-multi-voltage-trinitron-tv/images/1517942/

A sort of "secret" awesome CRT is a CVM. They are still cheap on ebay and craigslist.
RGB modding one would result in something really nice.

>>6289058
>>6289061
>https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649348975-sony-profeel-kv2900-multi-system-multi-voltage-trinitron-tv/images/1517942/

I'll admit that design of profeel is one i haven't seen before. The 2730/2530 PVM's were called profeel sets in Japan (27HG1, HG2 and others) and those are the ones i know used the same tubes as a few of the higher-end consumer sets. The earlier, silver profeels didn't have a PVM-equivalent that I'm aware of, and i would guess they don't use the same tube as i don't think they have the quad-pole magnet setup to control convergence on the 27" models. We're getting into prosumer stuff here, so not really consumer models, though i'll concede the public could buy them.

Either way, it's only the prosumer/presentation monitors that share tubes with the consumer sets. The production grade stuff from the PVM-194x series on up certainly never did, and those are early 90's. The broadcast stuff never did AFAIK, though i'm not aware of BVM models older than the 1900/2000AP from the early 80's

>>6289061
Cheers for the link tho, i'm always keen to find out more.

And i should probably add that the nicest sets i've seen are the PVM-2730's i have. Sharper than a consumer set and with RGB, but not ridiculously scanlined like a 20" 900TVL BVM - which is nice to play around with as well. As anon often notes, it's really a matter of preference.

>>6289071
The entire appeal of PVMs is that you get RGB right out of the box. Buying one of these for $100+ and modding it would be fucking stupid when you could do the same with a consumer set that already has Component and S-Video for a tenth of the price.

>>6289105
>The entire appeal of PVMs is that you get RGB right out of the box
It is? The added features in the service menu, the ability to control geometry and convergence better, the higher resolution tubes, the stylings, all mean nothing to you one way or the other?

>>6288690
The degree of precision achievable with the beam deflection circuitry is what makes a PVM superior to a consumer television, and it makes a noticeable difference. Not a be-all-end-all kind of difference, but to say that there's "literally no difference" is pure ignorance.

>>6289105
I guess it depends on how much trouble the RGB mod would be for you, and how much satisfaction you'd get out of it.

CVMs are lower TVL than PVM, are they not? That's a good thing for video games. And I think the CVMs look cool. I like the color and case styling.

Some of the older CVMs look especially neat.
I'd rather have this next to my old systems. I think it would fit in better and be something different than the usual PVM you see people with huge collections buying.
Maybe I'm just a CRT hipster.

>>6289249
For 576i, maybe?
PVMs got used in specialized applications with some oddball resolutions a little above standard resolution TV. That's where the difference would be visible. You don't want a stray pixel on a medical scan to be misconstrued as something wrong.

But for 240p gaming?
Placebo tier if we're talking identical tubes and video signals.

>>6289145
For me it's the multiscan.
But most of the sony monitors aren't so I don't really consider there to be much reason to own most PVM's.
>>6289145
>convergence
Lol, on my 20L5 you have to move the yoke to do that, just like a consumer set. So no.
I basically have mine because I got it before it was pure meme so I only paid around $70 for it.
>geometry
Maybe that's true, but definitely not convergence.

I like tri-dot monitors just as much.
>>6289270
I love wood grain. You got me.

Pic spoilered for not /vr/ (gamecube)

>>6289337
Why did PVMs get so popular anyway?
Was there some video or article I missed?
Years ago in this hobby it was all about NEC. 29" and multi-sync meant you had the perfect home substitute for a candy cab. Yet I've seen people who have money to burn settling for a 20" BVM. Why aren't they getting a 37" Diamond Pro? That would be one of the ultimates imo. Or even the 42" one.

They used to not be so rare you couldn't find one if you were dedicated.

Do they just buy them off of ebay instead of looking around?

How rare are consumer sets with VGA?

>>6289452
I can think of exactly one, and no I won't tell you what it is, so pretty fuckin rare

>>6289452
Vanishingly

>>6289337
>definitely not convergence
That's a bit strong. The 2730/2530 have pots of convergence control, as do the older BVM's. It's not on most of them though, i suppose.

>>6289446
Hmm, the Nanao MS9's are so damn good i wouldn't see an XM-29 as a huge improvement. Unless you were going to play more modern stuff as well. The picture on them is kinda fuzzy compared to a good PVM or BVM tho (but only compared to something top end in good nick) but i reckon it's really about availability and the persistence of the Sony meme.

>>6289276
>But for 240p gaming?
>Placebo tier if we're talking identical tubes and video signals.
see >>6288805 and >>6289249
Not same deflection and focus circuitry, not same tubes (save for some lower-end, older presentation-grade PVMs)

>>6289452
If it has VGA and is not a CRT HDTV then it's not a "consumer" set.
How rare are are multi-media monitors with a tv tuner built in and also have VGA?
Extraordinarily rare.

>>6289494
>If it has VGA and is not a CRT HDTV then it's not a "consumer" set.


untrue, do your homework, fag

>>6289486
>save for some lower-end, older presentation-grade PVMs
Those are the ones I'm talking about.
But even in the case of a later PVM and you go back to this
>>6280625
The difference in quality between a RGB Trinitron TV and an average PVM isn't going to be a whole lot. Easily into the realm of diminishing returns.
Top of the line perfect condition PVMs still win. I don't think there's really any CRT ever made that looks better for /vr/ than a PVM-2530. Maybe some of the stuff Barco or one of the other ultra-super-high-end companies made in the 90s, but before they went to 800+ TVL.

>>6289505
You talking about those weird 100hz CRTs?

>>6289494
>How rare are are multi-media monitors with a tv tuner built in and also have VGA?
Modern ones? Mine has both, plus component, HDMI.

>>6289516
nope

>>6289521
Okay add "if it's a CRT" to that.
>>6289537
Well some of those had it
https://youtu.be/ZfbAFg7QEPM

>>6289494
>multi-media monitors with a tv tuner built in
then it's not a monitor you fucking retard, it's a tv.

>>6289543
Some televisions are literally called monitors by their manufacturers. They used to even advertise that a TV could double as a video monitor.

>video monitor capability

>>6289486
OK, there are a few pots for convergence on my 20L5, but they don't fix most things on their own. I had to re-seat the yoke on mine to fix everything (not. fun.)

>>6280219
I think it just goes to show how good crt shaders are these days, a lot of crt enthusiasts seem paranoid about it

Is this a television?
It has a tuner and can change channels.

>>6289616
yes because the definition of a television is a display with a television receiver. if sony made a pickup truck but called it a sedan you wouldn't call it a fucking sedan.

>>6289623
okay

>>6289446
I have the feeling that way more PVMs and BVMs were made than Multisyncs and Megaviews because the demand for presentation monitors and the like was a lot lower than video production ones. It's why you almost never hear about GVMs.

>>6289607
Rather I'd see it as how good tri-dot monitors look.
>>6289703
You've clearly never been in an elementary school in the 90s.

>>6289707
Are you talking about these? Because I'm pretty sure they all used consumer sets.

>>6289709
My school had these 'earthwalk' ones which did have VGA.

>>6289713
(at least, I think that was the brand.)
Anyway they definitely had VGA.

my lil tube minus my dork face
as seen on /tv/

What's the first thing you do with a new CRT, /vr/?
Getting a surprise next week, think it's an MS9-29A but not sure. Will post results
Also if anyone can recommend a good 240v - 100v isolated stepdown would be great

>>6289713
For me was usually a consumer set on a trolley with VCR with the exception of some richer areas using projectors in some rooms. I went to a different school more or less every year (Oz)

Probably a stupid question, but what happens if you factory reset a CRT?

I've been thinking about picking up a CRT for older games and this is less than 30 minutes away for 40 bucks. should I take it and try and find a spot for it?

>>6290326
What's the model number?
I would take it in any case, whether it's an HDTV or not.

>>6289903
Depending on where it came from I open it up and check for pests, leaking capacitors, frays, cracks in the flyback transformer, and shorts.

If it's from a clean environment and already working I might leave it alone and just let it sit for a while in a safe place to make sure nothing odd is going on. No unusual smells, pops, or crackling sounds.

If it was out in the cold I let it warm up to room temperature and let any condensation evaporate before doing anything.

When I am sure the CRT is actually working properly and presents no danger then I let the screen warm up for an hour before starting any calibration. I don't mess with convergence rings or the yoke except in extreme cases. Which has been exactly once over 40 or so CRTs I've messed around with over the years.

>>6290326

Looks like a KV series, so yes, one of the best consumer CRT's you can buy, depending on model it may have component as well which will get you in the RGB club if you ever wanted to.

>>6268643
I have a samsung tx r1-635. how good is that? :D

>>6289270
I'd fucking kill for a woodgrain CRT.

I got my pc connected to my BVM but windows 10 is giving me a hard time. Any help with scaling? Thank you

Are multinorm (NTSC and PAL) CRTs a thing or a meme? I have my US SNES and I recently got an adapter to put PAL cartridges too. When I had my chipped PS2, when I tried to play a PAL game on a US tv, the image became grey and weird. I want to avoid that with my ps2 and SNES so I was wondering if there if multinorm tv are a thing so I can track down one of those. Or maybe you can suggest a better solution?

>>6290378
what's a kv series?

>>6290908

The epitome of Sony's CRT tech before they killed production and went to LCD tech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

>>6290883
IIRC they are common in PAL regions. Many jungle chips were able to do both NTSC and PAL formats but for whatever reasons either the circuitry was only soldered in PAL models or the multiformat capability was disabled on firmware in NTSC models.

>>6290914
The reason I ask is because I actually know what KV means, and it's the model designation for a direct view TV with an analog tuner. It's pretty much any Sony CRT TV from the first trinitron in 1969 up until the late Wega models when they started getting ATSC tuners and became KD instead since it was a digital tuner. In short, it's kind of silly to say "kv series" or something similar cause it just means a Sony TV of nearly any kind. Maybe you're thinking of FV which would be the higher end Wegas.

>>6290883
literally almost any Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, LG, etc big corporation maded tv in Europe had ntsc and pal support.

>>6290967
what does the K stand for?

>>6290852
If you're displaying a 240 image not a lot of the desktop is going to fit? Have you tried using 640x480i or even 800x600@50i instead?

Is it small brained to want to use a WEGA trintron TV as a gaming monitor? I'd have an LCD monitor for general use but anything I'd use a controller for, I'd switch over to the big TV.

>>6291078
For some reason the highest it gives me as an option is 640x240

>>6291079
Not at all.
They made both SD and HD versions and either one is a fine choice.

>>6291116
Is it realistic to use it as a main display? I've not yet actually seen one in person.
If it isn't, I might just get an old PC CRT as my main display.

>>6291121
By main display do you mean as a gaming and television display, or as a desktop monitor?

It would be fine for any modern game systems, roku, etc.

>>6291121
You want a frontend for games and media. If you want a CRT for desktop use get a higher resolution PC CRT. Also Google CRT_Emudriver, there's a great thread on Aussie Arcade that will help you get all the resolutions you want up and running
I have a 29" 38K and the desktop is barely usable at best

>>6291021
Funny how everyone forgets Philips since they had the most CRT plants in the world. Most Eurobrands such as Grundig,Thomson,Nordmende,Barco etc even LG tubes were Philips designs Sam's they were in a joint venture

>>6291186
>Sam's
>since
Stupid phone

>>6289930
it explodes

>>6290852
>using windows
kek
>>6291061
>what does the K stand for
Who Kares.

>>6289930
bad stuff
don't do it

First CRT since I was a kid, noticed the top half inch or so has a dark band across the top if there is anything dark near the top. What is causing this? Should I return it?

>>6290356
>>6290378
It's a KV32fs320

>>6290326
You probably shouldn't be buying anything off of craigslist or fb right now.

>>6291396

Yeah, solid set, easily worth the $40 if the geometry is good.

>>6291386
My eyes are cooked so I can't be 100% sure but it looks like burn in. Usually if something is on screen in one place for a long period of time the phosphor will burn which gives a shadow effect and visibility drastically varies depending on what's displayed. Try a plain colour screen and you might see a faint image up there. The effect is irreversible and the only way to get around it is to use a new tube

I was just browsing marketplace and found a Pelco security camera monitor for 40 bucks, are these good PVMs?

>>6279829
>Phosphor decay is way faster than the field refresh
Next time that you are thinking about saying something that's fucking retarded, maybe you should perform a simple test before you say it.

Manual exposure from a camera, 1/60, 480i content on screen. Can you see both fields in the picture you took? If so, you're a fucking retard and phosphor decay takes longer than a field refresh.
Some PC monitors have faster phosphors, but this holds for ones meant for 50 or 60hz content, like TV's and broadcast monitors.

>>6291656
Did you even look at your results there? If decay was longer than the field you would see both fields visible over the whole screen. From the pic there you can see ~6 lines of overlap where both fields are visible, so assuming the shutter and video are exactly 1/60 that gives a phosphor decay time of ~380 microseconds, which is about what you'd expect for P22 phosphors.

For a better measurement set a really short shutter like 1/2000 so you see only the decay then count the lines.

>>6288563
>hopefully i can figure out how to get s-video and component.
Why would you use that if you get RGB?
>>6288667
Might as well buy the whole PAL version and replace the PSU with something that can take the 100v span at that point. If it has 12v DV input for use in RVs and such you can run it off an external PSU without any modifications. Be warned though, unlike the rest of Europe many CRTs sold in the UK seem to lack RGB input in their SCART jacks even if they're sold in the 90s.

>>6289446
>Why did PVMs get so popular anyway?
It's the only way to get RGB out of the box if you don't live in any of the PAL countries or Japan.

>>6291021
I have two Sony Trinitron that don't do NTSC. They still run in 60hz just fine so anything RGB works as intended, this only prevents me from playing Famicom in anything but black and white.
Also, from descriptions I've heard not supporting 60hz seem to have been common into the 90s in the UK, but if this is actually the case then it's likely something you can activate in the service many. Many service menus have a region setting with settings titled things like "UK", "Eire" and such.

>>6292042
maybe composite input lacks ntsc support, if ntsc over scart rgb works.
multi format support appeared widely only in late 90s, early 0s I think.

>>6292078
NTSC and PAL refers to the colour signal specifically, not necessarily the frequency, it takes RGB60 just fine. When I connect the Famicom which is composite only due to how the PPU works the image appears fine, it's just that it's black and white since it won't handle the NTSC signal. I don't really play that much Famicom right now though, and I have another CRT that does NTSC, so this is still my main CRT since it's gorgeous with RGB. It's a Sony KV-14M1D for anyone who wants to know.

>>6292105
maybe mod pal nes to pal60, I know about pal60 mod for ps1.

>>6292656
>maybe mod pal nes to pal60
I have an AV Famicom, screwing around with trash like the NES is pointless. I barely play Famicom and when I do I have another CRT that handles the NTSC signal.
>I know about pal60 mod for ps1
The 60hz/50hz switch is fully in software on the PS1, you don't have to mod it all as long as you can get past the region lock which I do through UniROM. The PAL NES used a different variant of the CPU and PPU, so it can't be modded to run at a different speed without replacing those parts completely.

>>6292105
>Nights with the 3D controller
Does that make the game significantly more enjoyable to play? I own Nights but not the 3D controller, and I wasn't really able to get into it. Maybe it was because of the controls.

>>6291386

"return" an old-ass CRT you bought lmao. Have some self respect.

>>6291558
>The effect is irreversible and the only way to get around it is to use a new tube
If I had a CRT with burn-in that was otherwise amazing I'd cook up an overlay to use in Retroarch which would allow the rest of the screen to match the burn-in and see what kind of results I could get.

I've been reading about shadow mask CRTs and there are several references to having a "black mask" or "dark mask" in later models that are supposed to improve contrast.

Is this something you want to get, or avoid?

>>6292841
I've never bothered to try it without the 3D controller, but considering that it was designed for that game (one of the prototypes was even designed to look like NiGHTS' head) and how it was included with some versions of the game, I would seriously recommend that you use it.

>>6292932
I've heard a few claims that it doesn't work fantastic and others saying it's a good improvement. I don't use Retroarch but I have a quad sync with light burn and another arcade monitor on the way not inspected. So may try out on one of those sometime but my quad sync needs a service and I need an isolated stepdown for the other
Bear in mind that the shader will make the screen more dull

>>6291084
WEll, how are you connecting it? Are you using crt_emudriver like you should be on windows, or connecting suing an old GPU via S-Video?

>>6293249
I'm using an ArcadeVGA 5000 via VGA HD15 to BNC connectors with a tconnector for sync.

>>6293274
Why did you bother getting that, those are meant for arcade monitors, you could have just bought a much much cheaper amd card and used crt_emudriver.

>>6272176
King of G2 drifting, no 480i/240p and very common flyback transformer failure :)

I played some Dark Souls 2 on my PC CRT tonight.
Findings:
1. The brightness slider actually works on a CRT, instead of the dragon always being visible.
2. Flawless widescreen lets you play in true 4:3 with no letterboxing.
3. Dark Souls 2 in 4:3 on a 19" CRT gave me a strange feeling of remembering playing N64 games on my old 19" TV back in my old bedroom, specifically Shadows of the Empire and the Zelda games.
4. Sometimes I fool myself into thinking my usual LCD monitor looks pretty good, but nah. The black level of the LCD just cannot compete with the CRT. The CRT which was made in 1995.

I shot a video but my camera crashed when the battery ran out and didn't save the recording. I've played Dark Souls in 4:3 before on this monitor but this just reminded me how good it looks. I've pretty much made up my mind now that I'm going to track down the largest HD CRT I can get my hands on before prices start going up or there's nothing left to find. I know the sought after models are the Sony super fine pitch televisions, but I think I'd rather get one of the larger non-SFP CRT HDTVs that were made, I know they at least made some up to 38".

https://youtu.be/9F2heHgpl6M?t=1006
Think it still works?

>>6294394
Who let those filthy gaijin pigs into my house?

>>6293659
>before prices start going up or there's nothing left to find
You're basically out of luck.

>>6292846
t. ebay seller

>>6294765
Has opinion finally changed on HDTV CRTs?

>>6295120
They're okay for modern consoles as an alternative to expensive OLED TVs. Also less of an impact from burn in since CRT burn in happens when you display a fixed image for a long period of time while OLED pixels burn out with use.

>>6293659
I have a nice Dell Ultrasharp which I use for day-to-day. It's IPS, and the colours are pretty good. Not quite as good as a CRT, but text is just so much more crisp. The main issue is the fucking motion blurring I get because... well, IPS

>>6294765
HD CRTs are still cheap as chips. People hate them even more than standard CRT televisions because they tend to be even bigger and bulkier, so there is no shortage of folks getting rid of them right now. About a year ago, after my 3-year-old garbage flat panel crapped out, I got a nice 34" Toshiba for free. The owners were only all too happy I came to get it. And people still have them up for free or damn well near free.

>>6295120
I don't like it for retro games, it just looks like shit. But for my PS3 and my Switch, it works really nicely. Breath of the Wild looks livelier on my HD CRT than it did on my crap panel, but curiously it also looks better than it does on my friend's $1000 TV. Which I find kind of odd, because you think by now they would have figured out how to tailor games to LCDs.

>>6295160
LCD will always be shit. OLED is a different topic, as games/movies look much better on them. For HD content I'd say aside from motion blur they look better than CRT.

>>6295146
They're better than okay. For HD games they're the best looking thing* out there next to OLED, even with the downsides of lower resolution and interlacing. The contrast is everything.

*PC CRT monitors look better on a technical basis, but when I sit down to play a game I don't want to play it on a at-best size 24" display. John Carmac's 28" monitor is not realistic to discuss, you're not going to find another one, and that's still not big enough.
34-38" are good sizes, albeit a bit small compared to what is common these days with LCDs.

For /vr/ there are all the things which take advantage of higher resolution like PC games, 480p games (which can be displayed 1:1 in 540p mode through emulation with a small amount of blocking), high resolution texture packs for those that enjoy that sort of thing, and with the use of shaders in 1080i. I am confident the result would be extremely good, but I've yet to test it. I've tested 1080i on a PC CRT monitor and did not detect appreciable combing artifacts, and shaders created an image which looked very much like a PVM.

A little bit of lag is unfortunate, but not as big of a deal as popular opinion makes it out to be imo. I think people who are so worried about that are not that great at video games. Fighting game and shmup players have been dealing with lag from a half dozen sources for years and years now and still found ways to have fun with and complete many games with a couple of frames of lag. Many fighting game tournaments have been played on TVs with 2 frames of lag, including the HD CRTs I'm talking about here. So if they're good enough for that use case scenario they're good enough for playing casual /vr/.

>>6295187
I wouldn't use a computer monitor larger than 28" due to the distance I'd be sitting at it from. Anything larger than that is TV tier and I'd be sitting further away.

>>6295197
I use a 30" LCD monitor for my desktop display and I'd never go back to anything smaller.

>>6295210
40" here. I should have paid the extra dollar and gotten a curved one

How much should I pay for a PVM 2950q?
Are they even good?

>>6295894
Depends on how much it means to you.
It's sort of an "ultimate" end-game /vr/ display for a lot of people.
>Are they even good?
S class. Once calibrated it will blow you away. There is very little ever made that looks better, and it's very subjective at that point.

>>6295160
What model of Toshiba do you have?