/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6248234
No.

>>6248462
He ruins the planet for an entire timeline just to save like 6 dolphins.

>>6248540
The Asterite shouldnt have lost his balls in the past.

>>6248234
Morally GAY antihero?

>>6248540
No he doesn't. He stops an alien life form from continuing to use the oceans as a buffet. He saved life on earth, not just other dolphins.

>>6248679
In 2 Trellia pulls ecco out of his timeline, basically tells him that since he made the aliens aware of the planet by killing one sentient life never evolved and the sea never came to life. In Trellia's timeline Ecco's pod all died, the aliens just fucked off, and everything went great.

>>6249569
Sort of wrong, but much closer to correct than
>ecco dindunuffin

>>6248234
look at all those individual pixels...ughhh...

>>6249642

I don't see them, you're not browsing 4chan on an lcd monitor are you? you.. you are using a crt monitor like the rest of us boomers right?
y-you are a boomer right? hah of course you are, why else would you be here reading about old games.

>>6249569
Not really. First off Ecco's pod didn't die, he lived with them for a time in between games and had children. That's how Trellia exists because she's his descendant, so even though he doesn't return to them after ToT we know at least a good portion of them survive.

Second, Ecco's time traveling is a closed loop where Trellia's future is the real one and the Vortex future is a splinter. We know that in Ecco 1 the events of 2 have/will take place again as they always have. Because at the end of Tides of Time Ecco chases the Vortex queen into the distant past where although he isn't able to kill her completely, he's able to reduce her to such a weakened state that her and her offspring are forced to adapt and live alongside earth's other species and eventually evolve into arthropods.

So, since in Ecco 1 there are already members of that order such as trilobites and crabs around we know that the Vortex were/will be defeated in the distant past. They will always show up to take his pod, but Ecco will always defeat them. He's not morally grey at all, he saves the planet from being regularly fed upon and we on land have Ecco to thank for bees, butterflies and other pollinators that make life as we know it possible.

Ecco attacked those poor immigrants and let them starve.

>>6249725
I love ecco so fucking much bros. He's so pure

>>6249725
>So, since in Ecco 1 there are already members of that order such as trilobites and crabs around we know that the Vortex were/will be defeated in the distant past.
Ecco 1 is pre any time travel, we aren't playing a post-loop 1 just because we've played 2.
2 literally shows you that humans never evolved in Trellia's timeline, and the sea is literally sentient and wills itself into magic sky tubes for fish to swim around in.
Ecco 1 pre-disruption was our timeline(there's even evidence of human life). He destroyed it/us in both the bad timeline(a splinter as you call it) and the timeline Trellia pulled him to/from.
>but he fixed it
No, that's not really how it works. He's certainly not morally good, he's just a brave dolphin without foresight. He has no ethical alignment. He's an animal. He's morally grey, and also dolphins are grey.

>>6249747
>Ecco 1 is pre any time travel, we aren't playing a post-loop 1 just because we've played 2.

Arthropods only exist in Ecco's world because of the Vortex so their presence proves that. Trellia's timeline is just in the future but there were always humans because Atlantis always existed.

>>6249778
>there were always humans
Do you understand the concept of time travel? There were humans, then ecco started travelling through time, and then there weren't.
>the arthropod retcon therefore
Nothing you've said makes him anything more than a lonely dolphin with no fucks to give.

>>6249787
Time travel isn't real so it changes slightly in each work of fiction it's used it. Nothing in Trellia's timeline suggests humans never existed, indeed they know about the Atlanteans. Humans just aren't the dominant species in her time. The game does give the origins of arthropods though and that illustrates that in this universe Ecco always went through time to save things.

>let's make the game retardedly difficult so that you can't rent it and beat it in a weekend!
yikes

>>6249989
>challenge is bad
>a game you can't easily beat in 2 days is bad

Nintendo called, your pre-order of the next Mario rehash is ready for pickup. Don't worry, as usual it's still painfully easy so you can feel special.

>>6250031
>if someone says something I don't like about my favorite game, then it MUST be a nintendo fan!

>>6249989
lol poverty dolphins

>>6249818
>to save things
To save his bros

>>6250032
Am I wrong though?

>>6248236
What's really weird is this question is actually answered in a very easy to miss easter egg, and it's kind of sweet. In one of the Jurassic levels, if you sing off the screen you'll get a message where *someone* hears you. They talk about how they can hear your songs, the same songs they sing, but they come from the ocean. They question how this is possible, and that if their songs can come from the water, can they enter that water too?

>>6250157
Yes, I like Mario and Nintendo stuff, and also like Ecco.

>>6250204
Then why did you call it "retardedly difficult"?

>>6250216
Because I'm not that anon.

>>6250217
Why bother replying like that then? Do you agree that it's retardedly difficult and should be easily beatable in a weekend?

>>6250220
Because I'm tired of console war shitposting, especially when it's uncalled for. Just call him a faggot and be done with it.
I don't agree Ecco is retardedly difficulty, until Welcome to the machine, but I think everyone agrees on that.

>>6248234
Within the context of the story and his own experiences; no. Not at all.

We only see his actions as "grey" because we're not dolphins. If a human character changes time and made it so there were never any ants (as an example) well then who gives a fuck? They're not human.

Similar idea here; ecco's actions prevent humans from existing, but what exactly would that mean to a dolphin? At best. The crazy murdering assholes are gone from the ocean, at worst what? "Oh noes, I killed a species I don't interact with"

It's honestly not very grey at all. Grey would be if he'd realised the repercussions of his actuons beforehand and decided to do it anyway, to save dolphins.

Morally grey is (more or less) doing the wrong thing for the right reasons and doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Not "do the right thing for right reasons, but with collateral" that's got more to do with situational awareness and foresight than morality.

>>6250248
Does Ecco even know what humans are? At least in the original game? The only sign they even exist is the presence of shipwrecks, and dolphins and other singers call them, verboten, "Bones of strange floating whales"

>>6250248
This sounds like dolphin moral relativism, and I don't approve.

>>6250174
That's very neat, but I think it's more of a mechanical answer answer(how did we get here) than a philosophical one(why are we here)

What is wrong with this game?
Why is it so stingy about what to do next?
I got tired after hours of circles around first two levels.
Is the next levels like that too?

>>6250573
Because the 3D Ecco games are garbage. Thankfully they aren't canon.

>>6250580
I'm very impressed by visuals, I'm really liking that game, but I feel that it can't be played w/o a walkthru because otherwise it will take months.
And I better drop a game than beat it with a guide.

>>6250056
To save everything. The Vortex don't just eat dolphins, they eat everything.

>>6250260
They know about humans in some capacity, at least as much that they built Atlantis and the time machine. But what stage they're at or if they're still around in the future isn't really addressed one way or the other.

>>6250573
>>6250586
>otherwise it will take months
lol, Seaman isn't for you either

>>6250916
I won't play it. Just microphone for it cost more that I'm ready to pay for it.

>>6249787
>Do you understand the concept of time travel?
He does. You don't. Learn to Novikov self-consistency principle, faggot. Not even speculative since the first instance of time travel in the first game is an explicit self-fulfilling prophecy loop of the Asterite sending Ecco to steal the rest of himself from himself so he can get back the part of himself he had stolen from himself.

>>6250998

*head explodes*

>>6249989
>Ecco
>difficult
What?

>>6250573
Once you get used to it and there is more linearity in later levels. But I would still recommend a walkthrough since there are some very obtuse sections. Overall it's nowhere near the level of the two real games.

>>6250998
He's probably too used to Doctor Who time-travel rules, which pretty much translates to "do whatever the fuck you want with no consequences".

>>6251013

haha, that part was great. "Hey Ecco, back in the day I somehow lost an orb. could you go back and steal on from me when I was younger?"

>ecco goes back and steals ball
>travels back to past
>OH SO YOU STOLE IT FROM ME TO BEGIN WITH!

>>6251013

haha, that part was great. "Hey Ecco, back in the day I somehow lost an orb. could you go back and steal on from me when I was younger?"

>ecco goes back to the past and steals an orb.
>travels back to present
>aaah, so it was you who stole it from me to begin with.

>>6250998
There's always an alpha timeline, you moron. "paradoxes" don't exist in time travel, just looped instances. In the alpha timeline you invent time travel and use it, then you're gone forever because whatever you do is flipping from dimension to dimension, not altering the alpha timeline.
>arthropods
Don't care, you just don't understand how time travel works. You think an object can have no origin, that time is a stream. Time is an infinitely broad sea of atomized moments in time which we fly through and merely sustain the illusion of fluidity.
>>6251291
Nobody gives a fuck about your tranny show, this is a dolphin thread.

>>6250913
No. He has no concept of that, dumbfuck, he's not psychic. He goes on an adventure to save his own pod, everyone else is collateral saving. What is wrong with you assholes, are you ESL?

>>6251676
If I lost my keys on friday, but made it to work, I could send someone back to get the keys from me just after I close my door. I probably just dropped my keys, but now I might imagine "ah that's what happened to my keys, of course"

>>6251706
You're trying way too hard to paint him in a negative light. Ecco is an intelligent being, he can see just as the player that the Vortex didn't just suck up dolphins, they sucked up all the fish, clams and other life that wasn't stuck to the ocean floor. Obviously he wants to save his family, but that's not going to be any use if the rest of the world is barren. It doesn't sound like you've even played the games so it's a little weird how much effort you're putting in to trolling them.

>>6251696
>arthropods
>Don't care, you just don't understand how time travel works. You think an object can have no origin, that time is a stream.

It doesn't matter if you don't care. The game explains it's time travel and those arthropods are proof.

>>6251719
In this case to make it an actual analogy to what happens in the game, you lost your keys but still made it to work. Then to recover them you sent someone back in time to take them from your pocket before you left for work and return them to you again in the future.

>>6251827
>paint him in a negative light.
>this guys morally ambivalent, he's just a brave dolphin looking for his friend
>WOW DOLPHIN SCUM
>well obviously ecco isn't just going after his friends because he knows...
No. He is a dolphin.
>sounds like you haven't played the games
Bro, it sounds like you haven't even played the games and, given that, I think it's slightly bizarre that you're trying so hard to justify a fucking dolphin as a good guy. he's the protagonist, that's it. he has no moral alignment. he's not evil. he's not good. he's neutral dolphin.

>>6251871
Literally nothing paints him in an ambivalent light, he's a hero in every sense. Your only reasoning for that is because he's a dolphin. That's why it's weird how hard you're trying to push this.

>>6251880
>he's a hero in every sense. Your only reasoning for that is because he's a dolphin.
That's exactly what I'm saying. You think he's a fucking hero because you think dolphins are humans. He's a fucking dolphin.
He doesn't see the clams be clamnapped and give a fuck, and he certainly doesn't think "all things gone here, all things gone everywhere" despite seeing tons of shit on his way to get to his pod, like tons of fucking sea creatures that are in his way, like it's a game and they can hurt you and you can eat them and sonar at them. What the fuck?
His friends are gone, and he's either JUST SWIMMING AIMLESSLY WITHOUT FRIENDS or LOOKING FOR HIS FRIENDS. There is literally no reason to believe he's out to fucking find the strange force that stole his friends in order to save every living creature on earth, which he has no concept of, because he's a primitive dolphin without math to use to formulate a fucking globe earth. Goddamn, dude.
He is a dolphin.

>>6251827
No, like, what I'm saying is that whoever sent ecco back(I haven't played the games but you just laid out the exact logic so I can work on that) without knowing what happened to his orb could just logically assume(but be wrong) that that's how the orb disappeared. Whatever happened to it "before"(after) ecco stole it didn't happen because ecco stole it, because ecco stole it, and so ecco stole it.

>>6251917
>I haven't played the games
You should. Ecco basically pioneered the morally grey protagonist and dolphin puzzle/action gameplay.

well he's definitely grey. i don't know about morally

>>6251880
maybe he's just passionate about his interpretation anon

>>6251934
I just think he's emotionally retarded and sees anything other than humans as thoughtless animals and so therefore he's morally grey. His idiocy is almost comical.

>>6250573
Because you're dumb, and you have to explore. That's how games were. Sorry you are too lazy to look up a walk through.

>>6251936
HUMANS WOULDN'T EVEN JUMP TO THE CONCLUSIONS YOU THINK THE DOLPHIN WOULD LOL
if a dirt farmer's family and animals were kidnapped he wouldn't think "holy shit there's an unstoppable force kidnapping everything on the entire round earth" especially not as soon as he runs into the woods and meets a deer.

>>6251936
anon you're the one who sounds kind of dumb.
>>6251954
basically this like he's a fish not a formally educated deductive genius

>>6251954
there are even flat earthers today

>>6251956
Okay, thank you, but dolphins are fucking mammals dude

>>6251939
no, 3d ecco is legitimately not good. seems like team's first 3d game

>>6251963
Also it's not canonically related to the Genesis games and doesn't touch on any of the events from ToT.

>>6248568

How did the Asterite originally lose his ball? Or is it some retarded time travel rule where Ecco was the one who stole it all along?

>>6251954
Actually that's a good point. He knows for sure that only the things around him were taken because he immediately meets fish. No intelligent creature would think of it as anything but an attack, I reckon. Otherworldly entities farming your planet is way far flung from what Ecco saw at the outset of his adventure.

>>6250573
Ha wait till you get to Perpetual Fluidity

>arguing about a digital dolphin's moral compass or lack thereof

I LOVE 4CHAN!!!

>>6250580
whats wrong with the 3d games?

>>6251973
In the alpha timeline he did or didn't lose it.
In the beta and delta timelines Ecco stole it.
In the theta timeline Ecco brought the wrath of the alien race, or something like that, and the sea never attained sentience, and life didn't evolve any further.
And in the delta timeline Ecco stole it.
In the delta timeline Trellia pulls ecco out of the theta timeline, leading to the delta timeline, which loops into the beta timeline.

>>6251980
this dude gets it

>>6250580
>games

There was more than one 3D Ecco?

>>6249747
>He's morally grey, and also dolphins are grey.
Best thread on /vr/ in months

>>6249725
>and eventually evolve into arthropods
That's cool
I believed queen vortex was the ancestor of all life on the planet but this way the alien seabugs' joke works much better

>>6251979
I dropped it month ago, don't think that I will be returning for more CIRCLES.

>>6252268
There's leaked prototype of a second 3D game.

>>6252772
shame cause Iove the game, and even though that level can be ass the game has so much going for it

>>6252772
>>6252772
shame cause I still love the game, and even though that level can be ass the game has so much going for it

>>6252952
Well, it's not that difficult of a game to return to, but fucking circles!

>>6252952
>game shows effort but that one level
what are other games like that, anons?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxXHNJD7wz0

What are your nominations for the best levels throughout the games?

ending was bullshit then and it was bullshit when Quantum Leap did it too

>>6250248
grey was a pun on his color

>>6251719
>>6251827
that's Bill and Ted's time travel rules

>>6250248
>It's honestly not very grey at all. Grey would be if he'd realised the repercussions of his actuons beforehand and decided to do it anyway, to save dolphins.
That's not morally grey, that's an evil protagonist.

>>6250174
exquisite lore this game contains, but i'm frightened getting back to it (not by the vortex flying jpeg head, just overall relentless difficulty spikes that piss me off to no end)
Dark Souls, my ass - try any Fume Knight t-bagger to go dry into swiming through the machine or the air tunnel, out of breath, full of desperation.
Though, last time was so long ago, I might misremember things.

>>6256386
You were probably so close to finally thinking like a dolphin when you quit

What did you think of the comic?

>>6258349
i had no idea there was a comic, that's so super legit tbdesu

>>6248234
shit

>>6250248
>Similar idea here; ecco's actions prevent humans from existing,

That's not true though.

>>6255765
Ecco isn't morally grey in any way, but this description does highlight that all the people who deny human influenced climate change and our role being at the center of one if the largest mass extinctions this planet has, or those who simply don't care would rather drive a car to work than take the time to bike or use public transportation... They are evil from any non-human centered perspective.

>>6259829
>Ecco isn't morally grey in any way, but this description does highlight that all the people who deny human influenced climate change and our role being at the center of [...] plap-blap-moral high ground-aabpl-real-human-yiff!-non-npc
yeah, unlike those pro-environmental celebrities who take in-continent flights on their private jets to a party and back home, dozens of 500 horsepower sports cars that guzzle petroleum like nu-males snoy-flavored cum and they talk about it, like they own the damn universe, without realising that a single anomalous fart from sun will throw away all their retarded doom is nigh prophecies.
Just give us 50% of your income and we'll post a tweet of a forest painted in rainbow colors that will send strong, pro-environmental message and will definitely stop climate change. Oh look, a first semi-genderfluid paki prime-minister - so progressive.

>>6251980
I entered this thread hoping for a trip through nostalgia, but got dolphin time travel serious discussion instead. Im not mad, just disappointed.

>>6260487
Why the disappointment though? Ecco is an awesome game with fascinating lore that only adds to it. Talking about the ways the time travel works and how Ecco is responsible for saving the planet and giving us surf 'n turf to boot is fun!

>>6260487
there will be more ecco generals fren

>>6259829
>global warman
get out unless you're going to talk about some vintage captain planet game

>>6261821
No.

>>6260487
It sounds like you just wanted your nostalgia boner stroked.

Am I alone in wanting Ecco a d Chakkan to exist in the same universe? I think the lore could line up if you think about it.

>>6262691
I dont mind some virtual jerking by a kindred spirit, but desu I was hoping for more people bitching about the final level and check out how many fags used save states like me

>>6263149
Honestly the final level isn't even super hard, it's just bullshit because of the way it auto-scrolls it's designed to kill you over and over until you figure out the right path. At least that's the only part of the game that's like that and I don't fault you for using save states to cheese through it.

If you can do the jump in City of Forever and not resort to the hidden passage or a warp, that's a much better demonstration of Ecco skill.

>>6250913

If Ecco saved humanity and humanity went on to invent graphical filters for emulators, how can we seriously claim that Ecco is anything but morally evil?

>>6263194
Strongest argument yet

>>6263194
So if I save you from a burning building and it turns out you're a psycho who goes on to kill people, that would make me evil?

>>6263184
Is that jump even possible?

>>6263239

It depends. After killing the people, do I develop graphical filters for emulators? Would the people I killed have developed filters? Would they have already done so prior to being killed? These are complicated issues. In the average case though, I'd say no. The expected number of emulator filters that might have come out of the multiple people I killed is higher than the expected number of filters that I might make - especially since I am probably too busy planning murders and evading capture (or
serving a prison sentence) to work on emulator filters.

>>6264070
The problem with that is your base supposition that creating graphical filters is inherently an evil act, when it is actually just an expression of freedom of choice with someone deciding how they personally would like something to look. Naturally you have a preference, but that you attribute people with a different preference from your own as evil means you have a limited or non-existent developed theory of mind. Since it's a basic human trait you're really just highlighting that you're a sub-par example of the species and your moral compass is intrinsically flawed.

>>6264552

Did humans also invent autism-spectrum disorders? Is autism good or evil? This is another matter worth pondering.

We could also stand to consider the fact that Ecco, as if he weren't already well enough established as a villain, may have allowed Internet message boards to exist.

>>6264617
Interesting question, autism is probably neutral but doesn't discount someone from performing evil acts. The same is true for those lacking a theory of mind, they might not be entirely human bit that doesn't mean they're evil by default.

Mistaking Ecco for an evil, or even morally grey protagonist is straight up retarded though.

>>6263698
Yes

>>6264617
>if he weren't already well enough established as a villain
I'm glad /eg/'s great minds have come to terms with this fact collectively

>>6265134
Lol one samefagging troll who hasn't even played the games doesn't count for much.

>>6265325
Thanks for your mad and salt, fella. Sorry your favorite fictional dolphin doesn't like your kind around here.

>>6265769
Lol the guy bending over backwards trying to insist Ecco must be evil is the salty one. I've enjoyed the whole thread.

>>6263698
It requires precise timing but it's plenty doable. Swim up the far left side of the passage as fast as you can then start your jump angle right here.

>>6266294
It'll make it so you jump out right here into a spin, then hold left and you'll drift just enough to clear the corner.

>>6266297
Lemon squeezy

>>6265873
>haha i'm having so much fun you troll lmao samefag rofl lolol hahaha

>>6248234
>morally grey antihero?
Elaborate.

Anyone find it funny that an early level of Ecco 2 has a single solitary vortex drone and that's the only time in the entire game that particular enemy appears? The later vortexes are much smaller.

>>6248234
Ecco 3

>>6250031
You're a faggot

>>6267852
That's terrifying

>>6267245
That shit scared the hell out of me. Ecco games trigger my paranoia. I would never want to play them high and get a panic attack.

>>6267225
He's a literal idiot who doesn't seem to have played the games. He thinks because Ecco 2 shows the future where dolphins are super evolved that somehow means all humans are extinct and it's Ecco's fault. He just has no idea what he's talking about.

>>6248234
He's morally light blue with a sparkle.

>>6267852
>tfw play as a naked man living in a waterworld floating island, doing a fish flop dance and having 60 seconds before suffocating
the perfect setup

>>6266294
>>6266297
>>6266305
these jumps seem to have special programming behind them to make them feasible. this is problematic because the normal physics are modified in an unintuitive way

>>6257563
I took the bait, like a dumb fish I am and fired it up again - it's far less relentless as I remember (with the savestates), but man does it drag a lot - 1 seashore lvl, 1 underwater cave, 3 more seashore levels, at least two of which contain the same "3 dolphin" bitch quests). Just give me the damn open sea and north pole already!
I have no fucking clue how i've made it as far as time machine and first 1-2 prehistoric levels back in the day (after which i just gave up and flipped through the levels with a cheat code)

P.S. gotta say, that Retroarch thing I've only recently tried out on PC is packing - that title screen with a 240p s-video shader has hit me right in the feels! (of course, HRT purists would always screech for using real hardware for it, but screw them)

What if the stars on Ecco's head were the big dipper and he knew hokuto no ken?

>>6268414
Nope no special programming, everything is the same as normal it's just really tight timing. If you start the turn too early you hit the side and too late and you won't have space to get the angle right.

>>6268536
Ecco is one of my favorite games ever but it's definitely not for everyone. If you get turned off by the first few levels you certainly weren't going to like the later ones much more so it's hardly surprising you started level skipping.

>>6268552
Flipper of the North Star?

I had this for the Game Gear, but I'm still not 100% sure if I had the original or sequel. I THOUGHT I had Tides of Time, but most of the shit I remember from it were also in the original.

>>6269052
What do you remember from the Game Gear? I might know since I had the sequel.

>>6269052
Both came out for GG. Were there flying dolphins?

>>6269084
I can assure you that there weren't any in the GG version of Ecco 2. The port cut corners everywhere and left none of the plot standing.

>>6269101
I haven't played either GG version but Tides of Time is all about future dolphins so if you don't remember any of that it was likely the original.

>>6269113
Except there were literally no flying dolphins in GG Tides of Time. Those stages were completely cut and you only get a brief two stages in the floating waterways before Ecco is thrown back to his present with no explanation.

Like I said, this port cut a lot of corners.

>>6269154
I posted a screenshot from the GG version of Tubes of Medusa. How they include that without the other future stuff in a game that's literally all about time travel I don't know and don't really care. Just trying to help this anon figure out which game he played.

>>6267973
>dunning kruger
You literally just showed that you don't understand the argument. Ecco is not a morally good hero because he's acting for selfish reasons and his actions cause severe consequences, then basically other dolphins literally force him to fix his mistakes.
The Atlanteans are the ONLY humans in the Ecco universe. They escaped to a lost time far in the past, and didn't come back, because the fucking Vortex, Ecco or not. There are no humans left in Ecco's time, won't be for a long time in most of the times he visits. Flatly.
When ordered to destroy the time machine by the asterite, Ecco just fucks off and does whatever he want.
He's not a good dude. He's a fucking dolphin. He's morally grey.

>>6269257
>He's not a good dude. He's a fucking dolphin.

Your only reason for painting him as morally grey is that he's a dolphin and for that you're a grade A retard. Ecco os always working for the greater good of all the natural life he knows. If anything, the morally grey players are the humans who fucked off into time and did nothing to thwart the vortex. Ecco single findedly stops an alien invasion and earth being turned into a hellish machine.

Ohh but he's not a good dude! He's a fucking dolphin!

Yeah go die in a fire.

>>6269276
>Your only reason for painting him as morally grey is that he's a dolphin and for that you're a grade A retard.
You literally can't read and think that all animals are inherently ethical. It's the noble savage fallacy, basically, applied to dolphins.
>ecco blah blah all natural life
You're on drugs. He's a dolphin, and you act like he's a human with knowledge he couldn't even have. He's swimming in more or less a straight line because his bros are missing.
>ecco saves the world!
That's why he's an antihero and not a villain, bro. He did something for questionable reasons, it had severe consequences, and in the end he basically fixes his mistakes by the most generous of interpretations.
He's not a good guy. He's a fucking dolphin.

>>6269358
>think that all animals are inherently ethical.
Certainly not. That's what makes Ecco a hero.

>He did something for questionable reasons, it had severe consequences,

Nothing he did was questionable and all the consequences are good.

>>6269371
The very last thing he does in the canon games is disobey the asterite to literally go wherever he wants and do whatever he wants. Defender of the future is not canon, and almost certainly not what the canon Ecco would do with no oversight whatsoever.

>>6269374
ok that does actually sound pretty morally grey

The way I see it, Ecco is not amoral, but is mostly passive to what goes on (in part because he's the player) and simply follows what others tell him (Big Blue, the Asterite, the glyphs in Atlantis, etc.) as that's considered his best chance to finding his pod and later protecting them from the Vortex. I think the only time he makes his own decision is at the end of Tides of Time where he uses the time machine instead of destroying it like he's told to.

>>6269416
morally grey isn't the same as amoral. grey is a mixture of good and bad, amoral is more of a synonym to having "no morals" or basically having shit ethics. Ecco is selfish but he also cares deeply for the ones he cares for. perhaps if Ecco met Jesus Christ he could be taught to empathize for those outside his pod

>>6269416
also i agree everything you said other than that. it's a really good analysis of the not-exactly-a-big-damn-hero attitude Ecco has.

>>6269426
The first thing Ecco does after saving his pod and getting back to Earth is eat a fish. He is a dolphin of simple things.

>>6268995
>Ecco is one of my favorite games ever but it's definitely not for everyone. If you get turned off by the first few levels you certainly weren't going to like the later ones much more so it's hardly surprising you started level skipping.
I do like many things about the game and it certainly was one of my favourites from Genesis line-up, but to try and argue this game has no pacing issues that didn't age well (compared to other games on the same platform) would be disingenuous.

>>6268995
>you certainly weren't going to like the later ones
also, nice projection and a cheap attempt at separating a nay-sayer (who actually likes the game) from your beloved game (that actually has objective pacing flaws and a problem with being repetitive), because I absolutely LOVED later levels - it's just the levels were too long with nothing new to offer in either gameplay or art design department (hell, even the same music tracks have been regurgitated several times over and over - neither of those things help player feel sense of progression)

>>6269540
I think the pacing in it is still one of it's best aspects. Outside of The Machine I think the whole game still works very well. The dolphin rescuing quests at the beginning you were complaining about are some of my favorite parts.

>>6269549
There was no projection, I'm going off what you are saying. You described saying it felt like such a slog that you ended up flipping through levels with a cheat code. I'm just saying it's not surprising because I know the game doesn't appeal to everyone.

>because I absolutely LOVED later levels - it's just the levels were too long with nothing new

These two lines make no sense together to me. None of the levels seem too long, I don't even think of any as being very long. Would more art assets be nice? Sure but I don't see it as a problem. What did you love about the later levels and which levels do you like?

>>6269416
He's not passive, he goes on a quest to find out what happened.

>>6269416
He's also not selfish lol. This bait is strong.

>>6269741
Yeah, I suspected it's gonna take a few iterations of the same statement, before it could successfully penetrate your thick skull.
>I absolutely LOVED later levels*
*lore-wise and the key action set-pieces (time machine, fight with the double-helix god, the machine, vortex queen etc.) - i only had problem with multiple levels that repeat themselves for the sake of game longevity and and to invoke sense of a grand journey (the only thing that didn't age well about the game) and, as result, prolonged maze navigation filler fluff between those.

Not gonna waste any more of my time on autistic contrarian such as yourself, who can't comprehend how can someone enjoy the story, gameplay, sfx - basically everything, but the repetition.

>>6269792
It sounds like you just like the boss fights and lore not the bulk of the gameplay, which is fine. I think it's asking what you did like about it when most of what you said was complaining. We can disagree.

The second game had way better pacing, the stuff was actually happening and levels were all diverse instead of copypasta. Also, way better music and graphics.

The third person sections and morphs were a bit gimmicky though.

>>6269510
that's morally cute

>>6269820
Yes to everything, except for music.
Tides of Time is heavily skewed towards action beat'y tunes (which probably makes sense, since the great mystery of the otherworldly storm the first titke has been teasing player with half the game, was unraveled and now it's time for action for a new-found Superflipper) and not very well written ones, unfortunately.
To me the only remotely memorable tune was arguably the Title Theme (and even that turns into generic plinky-plonky chiptune halfway through - something the original's ost has been avoiding like a plague in favor of trance, moody ambient)
It honestly sounded closer to Ecco Jr. with all the distinct key notes and with volume levels of those being all over the place, making it sound very disharmonic (like a lazy Amiga action track with half the real instrument samples being muffled and another being twice-three times as loud, like somebody forgot to normalize the levels)
Fish City in particular sounded like it came from an NES dungeon crawler.

Ecco the Dolphin, on the other hand:
>Opening Theme
>Lagoon
>Medusa Bay
>Vents
>Ice Zone
>Time Travel
>Jurassic Beach
>Tube

All have very unique (like, across entire platform, if not in vidya history), very moody sound to them, each of which is multiplying the tone of the level / narrative piece in it, without drawing too much attention to itself.

>>6269820
I find the second game a little too gimmicky in general. I still like it, but not as much as the first which feels more cohesive to me. It's all designed around how Ecco controls and what he can do and then makes challenges based around that. ToT feels like they wanted to try a lot of new things, some of which work well bit others don't. The morphs always felt clumsy to me and the vortex levels could have been better.

>>6270195
Ironically I think the music is one if it's best points. Though I agree it's very different from the first game abd wouldn't have suited it, I think the more upbeat music fits the setting of Tides of Time better. Tubes of Medusa particularly I think is fantastic and suits the level really well even if I don't love it design-wise.

>>6248234
Should I play the PC, CD, or Genesis version?

>>6270854
Either CD or GEN should do it (CD has very pleasant soundtrack to it and couple of neat CGI)
Yet to try out PC version, but, at least, the graphics have higher color fidelity on it.

>>6270854
3DS>Genesis>CD
>3ds ver just looks that good
There's a PC version? What's it like?

>>6270864
>3ds ver just looks that good
unless there's some 3d effect involved, it looks like a verbatim copy of Genesis version. What makes it different / better?

>>6270854
I'd say play the Genesis version first just to listen to the original soundtrack. But Sega CD version has more levels, and the soundtrack by Spencer Nilsen-sama is also as great as the original.

>>6270870
Not him but M2 did an incredible job on the 3D version. It is identical to the Genesis without the 3D on but if you do it really pops and the attention to detail is amazing. Each fish in a school for example looks like they're at slightly different depths.

Other than that someone should just choose which soundtrack they like more. I strongly prefer the Genesis one but others are partial to the CD tracks.

>>6248234
It's not a human, it can't have morality.

>>6270896
That's just specist.

>>6270870
It just LOOKS amazing. It's otherwise exactly the same. Even if you turn the 3d on the lowest setting so you barely get any actual 3d it's just much more vivid and beautiful.

>>6270896
You're retarded.

>>6263698
yes
after spending a summer playing this game it is eventually possible

>>6271070
If it took you a whole summer you kinda suck.

>>6270854
Play the Fixed and Enhanced PC version:

https://mega.nz/#!PEMgWZoQ!ToY_BVlvuqv11DedfCza3Usd6VtVph8Q3tUm7zU9ruA

Read this for info on the improvements:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180202124335/http://web8.orcaserver.de/ecco/downloads/games/index.php

>>6271308
I appreciate the work put into it but I can't stand how the "enhanced" graphics look.

>>6271308
i want to download this but i'm scared my computer will catch coronavirus

>>6271826
No worries, you can select the Genesis graphics (and sound) from the launcher if you really want.

>>6271147
not all people are dolphin brained

>>6248234
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVVEAsoUSM
Used to play the Tides of Time intro constantly.

I don't know if this thread is serious about deep as hell ecco lore or if I'm being trolled. Isn't just a fucking dolphin?

>>6276281
as serious as drowning my friend, ecco presents its lore the way dark souls does.

>>6269000
>fins of the north star

>>6276281
It's just a top of an iceberg. Read about John Lilly and Earth Coincidence Control Office.

>>6250174
Anyone got a screenshot/video of this? First time I'm hearing about this easter egg.

>>6276347
literally the first search result
https://youtu.be/PbVhNsXRYFU

Interesting "back to the future"-style setup (where Ecco have potentially inspired some of his ancestors to come back into the ocean)

>>6276442
So dolphins were land dwelling creatures who migrated to the sea? That's kind of the opposite of evolution.

>>6276476
are you for real now? They have developed lungs, of course their ancestors were on-land creatures. Were you not allowed to learn evolution theory or something?

Evolution is not a linear process of technological improvement, akin to humanity's industrial progress.
It's about adapting to the environment (by hundreds of millions of generations of DNA splicing and its natural selection that leaves only those strands of DNA that are adapted to surviving its environment the best). Belive it or not, even in sea the lung-equipped animals have such a massive energy boost from high concentration of air oxygen, that many species have become quite prolific, if not the most dominant creatures (also apex predators, like killer whales), in terms of species size and range of propagation area / depth

>>6276513
You missed my point entirely. Life started in the ocean and move onto land.

>>6276515
i didn't miss it - i'm saying that
>That's kind of the opposite of evolution.
is far from a backwards process, but rather the more evolutionary advanced biological mechanism conquering new grounds, land and sea. That's the way I see it.

>>6276520
I'm well aware that dolphins evolved from land creatures, it's just that the game seemed to imply that they built some sort of proto-civilization which they abandoned to return to the sea.

>>6276598
> the game seemed to imply that they built some sort of proto-civilization
There's literally nothing to imply that. It's just some land ancestor species with, presumably, a similar high-frequency sonar acknowledged vaguely familiar clickety-clackety pattern of a dolphin (familiar because of common ancestry)

The more you think about it the more the game's loosely, with very wide strokes, written plot crumbles under its own weight, so it's better not to overthink minor details or one might end up in grave danger of being stranded in bermuda triangle of fan headcannon waters.

>>6276476
That's not the opposite, that's how it works. Species adapt to new or changing environments. At times when the sea was crowded some made their way onto land. As land got crowded some moved back to the sea.

>>6276651
What parts of the plot don't make sense to you? Outside of time travel weirdness which pops up in almost anything that deals with that I find it quite cohesive

>>6276651
>(familiar because of common ancestry)
You mean familiar because ecco was a time travelling literal descendant. Not common ancestry, direct ancestry. Like meeting your great great great great great(ad infinitum) grandpa.

>>6277485
No he means as natural evolution went. Mammals evolved from creatures who had moved from the ocean to land. As time went and conditions changed some moved back into into the water. The things Ecco sang to weren't dolphins, but it's implied that many generations along they will become dolphins.

>>6277580
You didn't contradict anything I said. You wouldn't be said to have "common ancestry" with your grandparents, although it's technically true.
>it's just some land ancestor species
>familiar because of common ancestry
Time travel doesn't exist, or these concepts would be hashed out. You should not be said to have "common ancestry" with your ancestor, even if said ancestor is from dillions of years ago and morphologically/genetically distinct from you.

>>6277636
>You wouldn't be said to have "common ancestry" with your grandparents,

I'm a different anon from the one you were talking to before but of course you would. The mechanics of the time travel is irrelevant.

>>6277706
No. You wouldn't. You excised "although it's technically true" to say "of course lol cause it's techincally true"
No shit, premium autist, nobody would say it because it's redundant. Of course you and your ancestors have common ancestors. Your ancestor is your ancestor. It goes unsaid and to bring it up doesn't sound right.
Me and you speak english. We don't say we have common linguistic roots, because we speak the same language. Technically we do, because they're fucking identical. I'm not going to bother trying to help you understand this anymore, if it escapes you then you really are on a spectrum.

>>6277882
>lashing out on definitions, ignoring the gist of the message
>being a linear-minded retard
>calling anyone autist
I suggest you to update your firmware and get back to the shithole you came from, dumb NPC

As for your claim, it could've been a cetacean ancestor that was not necessarily a direct sub-branch that led to bottlenose dolphins, but rather blue whales or killer whales (so, yeah - only common, not a direct one). Congrats, you've failed in both scopes - conceptual and literal - of this exchange (also as a human in general), but you will never ever admit that and instead will continue at your with your nazi-grammar-tier nitpicks, sperging out like a loud retard you are, because the ability to admit your stupidity is a privilege of thinking people.

P.S. Technically, the easter egg really won't make any sense, since cetacean branch has only developed sonar late stage, when they finally moved into water (as a compensatory recourse for losing a long-distance eyesight the mammals got used to so much on land)

>>6277941
>the easter egg really won't make any sense
as in, the ancestors wouldn't be able to speak to "hear our songs in the sea", cuz they wouldn't be able to even "sing" in the same high frequency.

Which leaves us with the aforementioned hypothesis of aforementioned 'proto-civilization' of fictional land dolphins, but, again - hypotheses in fiction = headcannon and i'd rather steer clear of that mess without significant "data" to backup the claim (at which point hypothesis already turns itself into a solid theory)

>>6277941
I didn't even read that because I made you so mad. That's a great admission that I've refuted you.

>>6278053
>shove a puppy's nose into his puddle of piss
>puppy: lol u mad
case in point. Have a last pity (You), on the house.

>>6278110
Sound and fury signifying nothing.

>>6278264
>>6278110
>>6278053
>>6277964
>>6277941
>>6277882
>>6277636
So much angry bickering over semantics is pretty lame. You both need to just play some Ecco and chill.

>>6278389
he started it - i ended it. Don't try to assume high moral ground here - instead of schooling angry manchildren over the internet go play some ecco and chill.

>Post YFW tubes of medusa starts playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk72RMv9d0s

>>6278416