/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6217453
This is not what the developer intended
If I wanted clarity, I'll just play emulator
good bye

>>6217467
Besides being wrong about the developer intention thing, what does it matter what they wanted? Is this the retro video game equivalent of the appeal to nature fallacy?

>>6217453
I play almost exclusively in RGB, but it's not objectively superior, it's just my preference

>>6217472
>but it's not objectively superior

>>6217475
The water is way too sharp and saturn rgb sonic looks like he has patchy skin on his head. Saturn composite is a nice median. I don't want to be able to count the pixels.

>>6217453
>what is dithering
RBG is way too sharp and has no soul.

>>6217475
The sonic waterfalls are overrated. I never thought it looked natural, it's like my TV was failing or something. Same with the tubes in chemical plant zone.

>>6217475
I wish Saturn composite was a bit more blurrier, the water transparency effect doesn't work, even using composite.

>>6217467
>the developer intended that you never use the RGB the console was designed to output
>weeb pic
>good bye
Don't let the door hit you on the way out faggot

Composite on the MD is a bit of a lottery as the quality varies across revisions.

RGB is a much better picture, there's not getting away from it. The problem seems to be whether that keeps you up a night, or not.

>>6217521
Saturn mesh pseudo transparancies sort of work, but they flicker hard. Maybe all the people who claim they don't are PALfags, who are already used to flickering?

>>6217526
>>6217529
watch it in slowmo and you see it switching between green and pink.

>>6217532
yeah wtf is that. can a techfag explain?

Colors are washed tf out when I use composite for games on my trinitron. Component is a no brainer, looks 100x better. If its too sharp for your taste at least get an svideo cable or something

>>6217475
You forgot the gigachad option, Sega 32X composite.

>>6217453
>>6217457
>>6217460
Which of these do you like more? Serious question. I see to see people here fight over both.

>>6217475
Meanwhile, in reality.

>>6218262
My wife just instinctively took her pantries off and assumed the position

>>6218389
>wife

The waterfalls are not supposed to be blurred. If that was the intention then they'd obviously use a checkerboard dither, but instead they use individual lines to represent falling drops of water. You're supposed to see each line.

>>6218401
>the coping component virgin VS the CHAD transparency chadposite

>>6218401
This! All of those "transparencies" created using vertical lines on the genesis were merely coincidental.

>>6218401
>>6218407
Samefag and/or trolling.

>>6218401
Vertical line dithering is more common on Genesis than checkerboard, it works better too.

>>6217457
is this supposed to be a joke? while the color occlusion is obviously more refined you really think it looks better then the composite? you must be fucking joking lol.

is this the autism everyone speaks of?

>>6217457
>correctly blended ground on the left
>unblended pixel mess on the right

>>6218462
I wish there were some way to combine the colour of RGB and the depth/dimension provided by composite and RF

>>6218474
it's called shader.

>>6217457
He looks like a zombie in Composite due to the lack of color. How can people say this is how the devs intended it?

>>6218548
Look at the floor.

>>6218487
Shaders never look as good as either composite or RGB

>>6218556
you can use a dithering shader and a crt, no need to use the retarded crt shaders that look like shit and deform the image.

>>6218560
I've never tried a dithering shader. I'll look into it. Thanks

>>6217453
the blending of pixels the better as >>6217460 proves

>>6217453
RF reigns supreme as always

>>6218560
any way to fine tune phosphor bloom in a crt or am i just stuck with whatever the old piece of shit looks like?

>>6218607
turn down the contrast, usually called picture in the menu

>>6218617
not him but contrast is called contrast on any tv I've seen in my life, old and new.
>>6218607
you may want to play with sharpness too.

>>6217453
>no dithering

>>6218401
>You're supposed to see each line.
Explain Comix Zone drop shadows then RGBfag.

>>6217467
This.
why is there so much autism surrounding this meaningless crap

>>6218774
It's a stylistic choice. That's how shadows were commonly drawn in the 90s underground comic scene.

INDISPUTABLE FACT BOMBS THAT ABSOLUTELY DESTROY /vr/:

- LINK'S HAIR WAS PINK SOLELY TO CREATE CONTRAST ON CONTEMPORARY MONITORS OF THE TIME
- IF LINK'S SPRITE HAIR HAD BEEN CLASSICALLY BROWN OR BLONDE HIS ENTIRE FACE WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE A SMUDGED MESS ON YOUR TV
- YOU WOULDN'T EVEN NOTICE IT'S PINK IN STANDARD GAMEPLAY ON THE RELEVANT HARDWARE, MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T REALIZE THIS UNTIL PRINT MAGAZINES (WHICH HAD ACCESS TO HIGH LEVELS OF TECHNOLOGY) GABBED ABOUT IT IN "DID U KNOW?" COLUMNS

>>6218781

>>6218787
while I'm pro composite.
link hair was pink because it shared the palette with his bunny form, that's all the technical detail behind it.

>>6218792
It looks pretty pink, anon.

>>6218796
PNG PHOTOGRAPHS ARE NOT REAL LIFE ANON
SORRY BUT YOU CANNOT DEFUSE THE FACT BOMB

>>6218634
>>6218617
Didn't work, back to working on my custom CRT royale shader preset.

>>6218781
>It's a stylistic choice.
Why would you lie on the internet?
>drawn in the 90s underground comic scene that i was never a part of nor was alive for
ftfy

>>6218736
Sauce.

>>6218813
Share some screenshots, please?

>>6218837

>>6217469
It's an old and retread concept people have problems with. But yes, it is a fallacy. It can be a preference or an opinion on whether you like it better from a personal perspective, but people here love to emotionally attach themselves to it and assert it as fact, which is where shit goes wrong and hits the fan. From a technical perspective, we haven't stuck to older technology for clear reasons like better visual clarity, power, speed, and convenience. But anyways, a link for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorial_intent

Of course, in the literary world, the main problem with this is that you get shit like Dumbledore being gay because the author said so despite none of the written text supporting that idea and etc. Here, that equivalent can get developers saying shit like "that brown rock was supposed to be a squirrel". Hardly really controversial, but the moment we hit the equivalent of ebooks vs paper, shit hits the fan for retro video games for some reason.

>>6218548
He looks like a cartoon character in RGB due to overly saturated colors.

I wouldn't say RGB isn't superior but for me, it's s-video. No need for expensive cables or modding systems that don't support RGB. No need for tiny overpriced PVMEMES.

>>6219854

So cope because you're poor or lack the skills for DIY?

>>6219854
what about nes and master system/genesis, pc engine, etc

>>6219875
t. coping faggot nerd who’s really proud of wasting his time

>>6219875
If it makes you feel good about yourself sure. I literally admitted RGB is better.

>there is literally no difference between this and real transparancy!

here the same scene is in s-video for the curious

>dithering is completely indistinguishable from normal transparency over composi-

>>6217469
>Besides being wrong about the developer intention
https://youtu.be/kILeyo1iv0A?t=87

>>6219951
no one cares what retarded american devs have to say about anything

>>6219958
Truly one of the ugliest genesis games.

>>6219958
lovely blurry graphics.

>>6219939
Looks decent.
>>6219942
Looks like a sharpening filter was applied to the image.

>>6219964
I recorded it several years ago on a consumer VCR, other than pointing a camera at the screen like pic related I know no other way to record off my old consoles.

>>6219970
A USB capture card of some kind.

>>6219973
I've got one but it's hardly any quality improvement since it just mixes the luma and chroma signals in s-video back down into a composite image.

>>6219970
That actually looks good.
>>6219973
That looks like an emulator with a low quality shader.

Just plug the god damn thing into a not 100% shit CRT and use anything better then R/F and your golden. never forget you are talking about children's toys from the 90's not works of art.

Pick one.

>>6219973
Recs?

>>6220042
The one I use is a Dazzle DVC 100. It's alright, I like that it can record 240p content and doesn't usually result in major combing artifacts in either 240p or 480i.

>>6220021
The illusions the artists attempted are maintained better on the sprites and backgrounds when the game's in motion and from a distance than it appears in stills via RGB. But RF still has merit

>>6217467
He could output the signal into a breakout box with RBG and Componet outputs.

>>6220021
left looks better

>>6220159
>>6220049
How about in motion

>>6220504

>>6220504
This would look perfect without the rainbow banding, that's where the 32X comes in. Best 80 dollar video encoder upgrade ever.

>>6217536
isn't that just moire effect nonsense that would only be visible on camera?

>>6220021
Left. Look at the floor pattern.

>>6220505
>undithered mess
No thanks.

>>6218781
I think you're confused with what cross hatching is

>>6220571
No which is why I recorded it.

>>6219946
I think everyone here agrees that 3D is completely different from 2D

>>6219946
what am i looking at here?

>>6220647
Different in what way?

>>6220662
in regards to using composite

>>6218401
Genesis is full of shadows that use individual lines as opposed to checkerboards so you're wrong. Either way, if we're sticking with Sonic, the checkerboard dithering in Sonic 2 looks better when it's blurred instead of sharp regardless

>>6219840
>Nintendo game
>Implying it's not supposed look cartoony

>>6217453
Butthurt Americans

If games were supposed to be played with Composhit than they wouldn't have made RGB natively avaible now wouldn't they?

>>6221148
People are getting really nsecure because their pathetic, nonexistent retro gaming cred is under threat because they can't handle the fact that RGB is a technically a superior image.

They seem to think that things like dot crawl and rainbow banding adds "soul" or whatever, basically the equivalent of jabbing yourself in the eyes every 15 minutes while playing a game.

Oh and don't forget "muh dithering!!!11", which makes every game instantly more playable.

>>6221148
>>6221157
>they fell for the RGB meme
Enjoy your unblended dithers.

>>6221163
"Muh dithers!!!!, lol Your pathetic retro gaming cred, is still at zero, btw.

>>6221171
RGB is objectively not the intended output for these games and the visuals reflect that. Gonna have to ask you to cope.

>>6221172
Coping is putting together shitty compassion mages trying to convince people that your non existent retro cred matters.

"But...It's what muh devs intended!!!111" , lol you should read that back and realise how utterly pathetic you sound.

Play any MD compilation or re-elease these days, there's no dithering, Sega and M2 don't even give a shit about it because it isn't a big deal.

Glad we have emulation nowadays so we don't have to deal with blurshit anymore

>>6221172
>Posts image trying to compare technologies
>That are being displayed by a completely different technology
lmao, only morons fall for these.

>>6221171
>>6221180
>>6221316
hmm, what is even happening here did you guys spend a shitload of money for a worse looking product?
sure it looks good on some things but not megadrive

The "intetented dev way" is a big meme and lie. At that time the gold standard of the industry was arcade gaming and all those nice looking jamma games were using RGB plug to those huge ass candy cab monitor, resulting in an image similar to what you would get on a good consumer CRT TV (sony trinitron comes to mind) with your console plugged through RGB Scart.

>>6221426
It's not a meme, consumer TV through composite (or even RF) is what most people had in Japan, so console games were made with those in mind, the dithering effects in many games is proof of that.
Arcade games were done with arcade screens in mind which is why you don't see the same dithering effects a console like the Mega Drive uses.

>>6221426
what would pic related look like on RGB, I'm curious

>>6221436
Then explain why RGB cables were officially sold for pretty much all consoles and gave objectively better image quality then anything else

I know im' lucky to be european and all our TVs had scart plug but this anti-RGB posting always sounded like cope to me

Fyi in europe you had to get an RGB cable in order to have NTSC games in color, this made me realized how much better looking RGB were over composite

Baffles me to read the composite defense force complete bullshit in year 2020

>>6221442
To market the hardware as modern. You can play any nes game with the power glove, if doesn't mean you should.

>>6221426
Consoles shipped with compositve. It was the standard. Add-ons and optional cables are your for benefit, not the intended design. It's not difficult to understand.

>>6221442
For those who had the option, but they knew the vast, vast majority of people in Japan were playing with RF or composite at best.
There's a reason why they were sold separately and didn't come with the console.

>>6221451
I think you missed that part

>gave objectively better image quality then anything else

Even PAL games that didnt' required RGB to be displayed in colors were well worth to played with RGB

>>6221458
we get it, you like clarity, some of us just prefer blended pixels

hello friends
a good chunk of genesis/megadrive devs took took advantage of shitty video and used dithering for transparencies, new colors and adding detail with less pixels.
while you can achieve the same effect by blurring the whole screen, you can also use smart dithering through the use of shaders.

it's not perfect and quite a rabbit hole to jump down though.

>>6221474
It’s not just about the dithering, having minor blurred images blends gradients to give depth and give rounded features like here >>6221438

>>6217453
To cut to the chase: You have been conditioned to believe that blurry = bad; sharp = good. If you think about it for a bit; you'll understand.

>>6221474
How can I achieve that effect? What shader/preset to use? This seems like a decent mddle ground to me.

>>6221539
You can see the dithered elements getting extra shades on most of the apropriate elements

>>6221778
gdapt shader

Just use the right looking goods and you can have nicely blended dithered graphics without the artifact garbage.

>>6221814
show how does that look in motion
any artifacts? shimmering? Frame-to-frame inconsistencies?

Hardwarefags seething
>>6221889
>nooooo it can't be true!
>there must be frame to frame inconsistencies?? anything?!

>>6221917
you absolute strawmanning moron

>>6221453
Not really, They came standard with 5th gen and up. Other gens had RF. It's not so much the standard as it's just the safest way to make sure anyone could connect it at home.

What form of autism do you need to have in order for the differences between these to matter much at all?

>>6221921
Mad?

>>6221917
hardwarefags can never seethe against emulation because emulation is completely free, anybody can emulate.
this isn't a hard vs emu thread, it's a display war thread (rgb/component vs composite)

>>6221438
>arcade contra
>not RGB

>>6221157
>>6221171
>>6221180
>writing like a braindead 16 year old
lmao your just coping because you’re a hipster soýboy cucklord! Stay mad and seethe lmao you probably watch e-celebs lol lmao lol it’s scientifically proven that my thing is superior, stop fishing for hipster points lmao tranny

>>6221047
Yes, that is exactly what’s implied. Castlevania is not a Donald Duck cartoon, the more realistic colors are better.

>>6222058
Medical term is having eyes + brain

>>6222112
>Replying like a retarded 8 year old..

Here is a picture of Yuzo Koshiro recommending a component cable for the Mega Drive.

>>6217453
No one says the others are better, just that coax and composite look more natural because literally no one used rgb on a console back then. Literally. RGB and PVM/BVMs are just hardware equivalent shaders as far as I'm concerned.

>>6222090
They're mad because they wasted their money and the improvements in emulations makes the stuff they've hoarded less valuable.
This isn't component vs composite any more, it's component/composite vs a shader that combines the best qualities of each.

>>6222140
He's an audio expert, not video.

>>6222136
Yeah, exactly. That was the point.

>>6222147
Again, anybody can emulate. It's good for trying out games for free but otherwise not very reliable if you're used to the real thing.
The mad guys are the ones spending time and money into modding their consoles for RGB and buying expensive professional monitors when composite and consumer TVs were always the only thing needed for consoles.

>>6222170
>anybody can emulate.
Most people who spent money on the real thing are going to use that so they don't feel like it's a waste, even though they could set up emulation.
>not very reliable if you're used to the real thing
Can you name a retro game that "isn't very reliable" to emulate? No, stupid retard.

>>6222175
>Most people who spent money on the real thing are going to use that so they don't feel like it's a waste, even though they could set up emulation.
Says who? As I said, emulation is convenient for quickly trying out games for free.
>Can you name a retro game that "isn't very reliable" to emulate? No, stupid retard.
>No, stupid retard.
Seems like I hit some nerve here.
Don't worry, I'm not anti-emulation. I'm not your enemy, guy.
I like emulating at 240p on a CRT, it's pretty close to the real experience, but you can still notice inconsistencies here and there. No big deal but it's there.

>>6222157
Not much of point really, when That's 98% of this board.

>>6222145
Actually , if you imported in the UK back in the day, RGB was the only way to go, and yes the import scene was pretty popular back then.

>>6222183
>emulation is convenient for quickly trying out
It's also convenient for playing with so much accuracy you couldn't tell the difference from the real thing.
>it's pretty close to the real experience, but you can still notice inconsistencies here and there.
Still waiting for you to name one of these "inconsistencies" but you've been triggered by something that was said and are just lying now.

>>6222207
Look, you're not my target. I'm arguing against the anti-composite guys.
If you don't like original hardware, I actually support you. If the retro video game community needs something, it's people who can be happy with just emulation and don't keep jumping into the real hardware bandwagon, especially if you're going to use real hardware with HD displays, there's no point.
So, be my guest. Emulate everything, my kid.
As for what those inconsistencies are, the common stuff: screen tearing, inherent input lag (or just incorrect timing input, even if it has "Less lag than real hardware" through emu optimization, it's still not 100% accurate because it's not real hardware), various graphical layer issues with post-4th gen systems. It's nothing too bad if you're not very familiar with the real games though, so yeah, you can still enjoy them freely, and as I said, I encourage you to do so, you definitely don't need real hardware to enjoy video games and that's a good thing.

>>6222230
>irrelevant babble
I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with you IRL.
>screen tearing
No.
>inherent input lag
No.
>or just incorrect timing input, even if it has "Less lag than real hardware" through emu optimization, it's still not 100% accurate because it's not real hardware
Being 100% accurate isn't a good thing when it comes to technical limitations. If a console's version of an arcade game has more lag because of the inferior console hardware, are you going to play with that increased lag when emulating the console version just because muh 100% accuracy? You're a mongoloid.
>various graphical layer issues with post-4th gen systems
Still waiting on you to name any.

>>6222245
>No.
>No.
Convincing.
Anyway, for real: Be happy with your emulation-only life. I'm encouraging you to stay away from real hardware. You don't need it.

>>6222245
why are you trying so hard to start some shit dude, the other guy is literally giving you advice

>>6222251
>Convincing
If you're getting screen tearing you need to use better software that eliminates vblanks, stupid. Don't try to argue about subjects you don't understand.

>>6222259
Yeah, sometimes when I'm playing a game I really want to play but can't buy, I emulate and do all the steps to get the most optimal emulation possible, plug in fiddling and what not (which sometimes fixes some stuff, but breaks another).
But again, for the 3rd or 4th time I think: I'm fine with emulation, and I DO encourage you and anyone else who is content with emulation to stay that way.

>>6222269
>do all the steps to get the most optimal emulation possible, plug in fiddling and what not (which sometimes fixes some stuff, but breaks another)
Sounds like you need to learn how to use basic software other people have already optimized for you.
>content with emulation
For the last time, emulation isn't inferior to original hardware. It's superior. You still haven't named any of these supposed graphical issues, what a surprise to everyone.

>>6222273
Alright, I'll keep researching emulation next time I feel like emulating something, promise.

>>6222273
>emulation isn't inferior to original hardware
Yet it feels so wrong.

>>6222305
It's neither superior or inferior, it's an alternative.
It's, as the name implies, an emulation. It's not the real thing, but it can come pretty close, and depending on subjectiveness, it can be "better". For example some people enjoy upscaling retro games, and it's easier to do that with emulation.

>>6222308
For sure. I'm sure I'd be emulating if I didn't have all of my original hardware from years back.

>>6222308
I think the main reason he’s saying it’s superior is because most emulators these says can overclock fairly easily negating heavy slowdown and sprite flicker can also be eliminated

>>6222124
This can only be contrarianism at this point

>>6218462
Up close it does look pixelated, but at a proper viewing distance it will look great.

>>6222308
>It's neither superior or inferior, it's an alternative.
An inferior alternative

>>6222305
it's a placebo effect
you preconditioned yourself to expect certain outcome
no practical evidence will convince you that reality is different

>>6222647
Your post is idiotic. You shouldn’t have bothered replying, because you are too dumb to explain yourself.

>>6220636
>what cross hatching is
It's a darker version of hatching. Hatching just has parallel lines, like Comix Zone.

>>6223379
do you honestly believe this?

>>6223191
You're the one asking for realism in a Nintendo game made for kids. It's meant to look cartoony

RGB looks great on Mega Drive. Most of the games I play on the thing don't use many dithering effects and even if they did I'll take losing color bleed and crosstalk over minor transparencies.
The only games I bother hooking up my composite cables for are those with full-screen/heavy dithering, as many games on PS1 did.
Then there's also systems which were always hooked up using some form of RGB back then, like any arcade boards using JAMMA or the Neo Geo MVS.

>>6220514
>80 dollar
How. I paid 20 for mine in 1996 brand new

>>6222140
Holy shit he looks pretty good