/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6188067
how many shmoop and belt scroller threads do you fags need??

>>6188079
One for every game in the genres at the very least

>>6188079
how many jarpig threads do you need?
(the last main shmup one reached bump limit btw)

Sometimes I wonder if people genuinely can't grasp the concept of scoring depth and why newer shmups generally have more of it than older ones or if they are pretending just to be contrarian and desperately try to win an argument. It's just simple logic and numbers. You'd need to fuck up real bad to make a game with base point values + some kind of multiplier with a wide range of possible numbers have less depth than the average game with just a base point values.

>>6188113
do you want to lose that argument twice?

>>6188137
I'm not the same guy you were arguing with, you can try to argue against it I guess but I wouldn't recommend it. You can disprove your own idea very easily, just boot up the first stage of Raiden and Ketsui, play them both and see which stage has more for you to discover and optimize, then abstract and extrapolate your idea to the rest of the stages in both games

Modern shmups create more scoring variables. But that doesn't automatically make them superior and better suited for score players than classic shmups.
If a classic shmup is able to deliver similar difficulty but with lower variables it doesn't make it worse than one with more variables. It makes it more efficient and the experience less convoluted. Some prefer that style.

Imagine a game like Garegga but with twice the scoring variables, does that mean it's better for score players? Maybe some would like it, maybe some would find it too obnoxious.

>>6188173
>Modern shmups create more scoring variables.
Yes, and what does this mean in practice? In practice it means that the games have more things for you to learn and optimize because the range of scores will vary much more. In practice it also means that if a scoring system is sufficiently deep, optimizing it will require pixel perfect precision, it might reach such frequency that it goes beyond human ability. You see how this is more engaging in the long run, no?
>It makes it more efficient and the experience less convoluted.
Convoluted is a different albeit related problem, a game can have a lot of variables but still be very intuitive. The reason a game being convoluted is bad has far less to do with how engaging it is to play at a high level and more to do with how enjoyable it is to learn and understand.

>>6188182
> In practice it means that the games have more things for you to learn and optimize because the range of scores will vary much more.
As long as the two games offer similar difficulty then it doesn't matter if one provides it with 5 score variables and another with 9 score variables.

At this point you're just arguing preferences of taste.

>>6188197
It's not just about variables it's about depth, and depth in scoring raises difficulty (almost) by itself. You could just have a game that has you moving your ship in a circular motion, giving you points when you complete a circle and applying a multiplier based on how perfectly you follow it down to the pixel. Maxing out the score in that game would be harder than just about anything an old school shmup will throw at you, because players are never that precise nor consistent and you cannot design a survival-oriented game with patterns demanding such consistent precision. It's just how it is.

>>6188208
>Higher difficulty
Well it's not fair to compare a game that's a 5/10 difficulty with one that is 10/10 difficulty.

But if they are roughly the same then what it comes down to is preference of style.


>a game where you move in a pixel-perfect circle all the time
Is that supposed to be better suited for score players?? That sounds horrible.

>>6188215
They won't be roughly the same if one game has a deep scoring system unless I'm missing some dadcore game that demands pixel perfect precision at all times, like the hypothetical little circle game. Just take the l and move on, no need to act dense and drag this out.

>>6188221
It's different styles. Classic shmups offer enough depth and difficulty to engage score players. Some prefer less variables to manage.


>They won't be roughly the same if one game has a deep scoring system unless
Plenty of classic shmups offer just as much challenge as cave shmups when played for score. Getting 10million in Tatsujin Ou by loop 8 has some sort of Cave equivalent. Getting 10million in raiden by stage 3, has some cave equivalent in terms of difficulty.
Some exceptions don't disprove the general rule that it's just style and preference when we compare games of similar difficulty.

>take the L
Delusional.

>>6188236
What's your point, that some players prefer classic shmups despite their lack of scoring depth? Obviously. What's being discussed is general trends, countering an explanation of why one preference is more common than another with "it's just preferences bro" is a waste of time.

>>6188254
Cave is popular in general, that's the trend. Does that mean it's better suited for survival play and just better than classic shmups? More variables = Better? More bullets = better? Give me a break.

You got no argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auyVWkTPrUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbf-Z2IgnVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Z3fSizXEo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_9rb1qKskc

What are some good arcade platformers to 1cc?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpYWcSV81qI

>>6188259
Cave is extremely popular among "hardcore" players, among the average gamers that's not the case, classics like Gradius are nearly household names, yet you don't see this popularity reflected in the amount of high level players.
>Does that mean it's better suited for survival play
This has nothing to do with the topic, players of different levels have vastly different priorities. I would say that Cave has very good LOW LEVEL survival that's easy to get into.

>>6188276
>Cave is extremely popular among "hardcore" players
so are classic shmups.
show me some hard numbers to prove otherwise.

>>Does that mean it's better suited for survival play
It does because it breaks your stupid argument.
Cave is more popular and implements more shit to do, more actions to perform, more little maneuvers, more shot types. So? Therefore it's better than classic shmups?
This is your argument you apply to scoring.
So a 20 rated Cave game is just better than a 20 rated classic shmup because you have to micro-dodge and alternate your shots and "do more stuff"? Same argument. You see how dumb it is?

Trends don't mean better.

>>6188276
>Cave is extremely popular among "hardcore" players
so are classic shmups.
show me some hard numbers to prove otherwise.

>>This has nothing to do with the topic, players of different levels have vastly different priorities. I would say that Cave has very good LOW LEVEL survival that's easy to get into.
Cave is more popular and implements more shit to do, more actions to perform, more little maneuvers, more shot types. So? Therefore it's better than classic shmups?
This is your argument you apply to scoring.
Why don't you apply it to survival and 1CC as well?
So a 20 rated Cave game is just better suited for shmup players than a 20 rated classic shmup because you have to micro-dodge and alternate your shots and "do more stuff"? Same argument. You see how dumb it is? More is better!

Trends don't mean better.
More doesn't mean better.
You got the L, now stfu.

>>6188290
>show me some hard numbers to prove otherwise.
You can literally go through the thread that sparked this whole topic and count the players.
>The entire second half of the post
Pure hysterics and not a single coherent point. Overall game quality is vague and can mean different things, once you specify it with for example "better for casual players", "better for high level long term play", "better as fap material" discussion can happen.

>>6188236
>Getting 10million in Tatsujin Ou by loop 8 has some sort of Cave equivalent.
And no one in the West knows how hard that is because no one has done it or ever will.

>>6188304
>hysterics
>not coherent
What confused you?
If your argument was valid for score players then it should be valid for survival players. Cave games offer more actions to perform via micro-dodging and managing shot-types, hypers and bullet-canceling, they have more actions to perform on average, you think this adds more depth to scoring. Well it also adds more depth to survival.
So a 20 rated Cave game > 20 rated Dadcore
A 40 rated Cave game > 40 rated Dadcore
If that's true for score players then it's true for survival players.
More depth, more complexity = better
According to you it's trending hot now, so that makes it better too!

So you should be playing Cave games for survival.
Oh wait a second, maybe it's not inherently better to have more complexity for survival or for score??

>>6188315
>If your argument was valid for score players then it should be valid for survival players.
Nah, score and survival players have different priorities, a game can have an incredibly good scoring system having a lot of depth but if it lacks difficulty outside of that scoring system, then it's a boring game. Mecha Ritz might be just one such example. Furthermore, scoring is variable and voluntary, you get a choice with how much of it to engage with and how far you want to push the game, making survival demand that sort of precision and understanding is most likely going to be too frustrating for survival players.

>>6188329
>score and survival players have different priorities, a game can have an incredibly good scoring system having a lot of depth but if it lacks difficulty outside of that scoring
I'm not talking about that. We make all other things equal. Say Espgaluda 1cc for survival is 18 difficulty and some dadshit 1cc is also 18 rated. Your argument implies espgaluda would be better because it has multiple shot types, more pixel perfect actions via micrododging, bullet cancels, slowing time, character switching, etc...more depth. While the dadshit might have only one fire spam, and simpler mechanics for survival.

Why is more depth better for score players but not for survival players?

>>6188347
No you're stretching, that's not necessarily depth. The reason more variables almost always make for deeper scoring is because all those points matter and therefore all your actions also matter. For survival things are different because your priority is very simple, you either survive or you don't, any small differences become irrelevant as long as the goal is met, unless you introduce additional criteria on top of survival. Multiple shot types can exist but if there's little reason to use them then they're simply variety rather than depth. Because the goals are basic, almost binary, the base challenge becomes very important, more dense patterns might limit your choices for movement, but they give more meaning to the limited choices you DO have. And as I said, scoring is completely voluntary, front loading that challenge onto survival would be unreasonable.

>>6188363
You're ignoring the actual argument. I didn't talk about artificial depth, I meant real depth. Assume in Gluda you have to switch shot types and switch characters to survive, assume the 18 rated dadcore is just mechanically simpler, only one shot type, no micro dodging, no character switching to survive,etc. But overall they are similar difficulty.

Again, why is more real depth better for score players but real depth is not better for survival players?

>>6188380
A game cannot have scoring depth in survival, the depth in scoring comes from scoring more or less depending on your actions, you can't "survive more/less", it's binary. You can introduce criteria to survival like how many lives/bombs you used, but that's already a very primitive scoring system. You could have some kind of extremely elaborate take on a bombs/lives system but again, it would just be another way to contextualize scoring. Theoretically, you can capture the difficulty and complexity of scoring in survival, but because of how demanding scoring gets at its highest level, this would be absolutely insane.

Also this discussion's been going on for too long and now I just have to reiterate the same points, so I'll stop replying.

>>6188386
You are repeating yourself by not engaging my actual argument.
There's no reason to assume more complexity or variables is automatically better for scoring, or for survival, many players like difficult but simpler challenges.

>Theoretically, you can capture the difficulty and complexity of scoring in survival, but because of how demanding scoring gets at its highest level, this would be absolutely insane.
Complexity doesn't mean better. And there are extremely difficult WRs to attain in dadshit games similar to cave. Top players play old shmups for score. 10million in Tatsujin Oh at world record tier pace is insane and highly optimized.

Threadly reminder that the 4chan Caravan has only just begun! We're playing Star Soldier Special Version for NES, 2 minute and 5 minute runs (with a bonus Rapid Measurement Trial for you Takahashis out there). Get it here and post a screen with your score: http://www.skrybe.net/stuff/Star%20Soldier%20Special%20Version%20(J).zip

For convenience's sake, format your entry to have the category and score first and then your name, like so:

2 MINUTE
100000 - Anonymous

Deadline is February 22. Good luck everyone!

>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 344900 - shmupg gang
2. 344000 - NLM
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 90000 - Character O
5. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

>>6187997
>Hopefully this motivates you to play. I'm a bit busy right now but I'll give this game a chance, even though NES shmups are a bit of a downgrade to the MAME stuff I'm used to.
I deliberately chose a pretty simple game precisely because I wanted the barrier of entry to be low in both time and skill: people like me who don't really have much experience with shmups can still hop in, and people who are already immersed in their own games and don't want to commit to learning a whole new game can still pop over to quickly toss a score on the board.

>>6188409
>February 22
that's too much

>>6188409
2 MINUTE
166800 - jarpig

>>6188409
>>6188515
2 MINUTE
252100 - jarpig

I need to figure out how to destroy the eyes at the same time.

>>6188491
2 weeks. It seems like it'd be enough time for people who know about it from the start to get enough optimization down, but still long enough that it can catch eyes of people who haven't seen it before. What does everyone else think?

>>6188523
Like the midboss, it seems to be all about positioning with the spreadshot before they appear on screen. If you're in the sweet spot beforehand, it's just holding down autofire.

>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 344900 - shmupg gang
2. 344000 - NLM
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 252100 - jarpig
5. 199900 - Character O
6. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

Slowly getting better at dragon blaze, you really have to be aggressive with the dragon shot

I don't imagine myself getting much higher than this on the 2 minute barring major revelations I don't know yet. Goddamn do I hate it when the ship flies under the scenery.
>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 344900 - shmupg gang
2. 344000 - NLM
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 255200 - Character O
5. 252100 - jarpig
6. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

>>6188113
Don't worry about it, it's just people that don't play and are unable to comprehend this until they actually try. Actual players get this no problem.

>>6188162
>just boot up the first stage of Raiden and Ketsui, play them both and see which stage has more for you to discover and optimize, then abstract and extrapolate your idea to the rest of the stages in both games
Yep it's as simple as this but these guys have yet to even try this
I really like Raiden but I optimized that first stage for score almost blind ffs.
Sad to see that you entertained this retard again btw, just ignore him and tell him to play games so he understands. No matter what you say he'll be stubborn because DAD GOOD DANMAKU BAD.

>>6188274
Capcom ones. GnG, Willow...

lol at that guy seething about game quality when the original guy said he enjoyed dad more but said that Cave is better suited for advanced play due to depth

REMINDER FOR ACTUAL PLAYERS:
If you see some utterly retarded clueless point, don't take the bait. It's a waste of time. Ignore them, or tell them to play, which is what they need to learn. Don't forget that this is /vr/, so the chance of jarpigs, sick grabbers and other such types showing up is high. Use the magic sentence
>wot u ply?
Don't make an environment that attracts secondaries. Make people that don't play not feel at home so they gtfo (or play).

>>6188079
Just hide the thread and quit complaining. God I hate the shmup vs jrpg war so much just talk about the fucking games

>>6188669
We're talking about games now. Funny how jarpigs can't ignore 1 arcade thread though, there's something about seeing people enjoying these games that makes them uncomfortable. Probably their gamer ego getting shattered since he can't beat these games.

>>6188669
I wish gookmoot would make a separate arcade gaming board.

Then we could leave the jarpigs and consolecucks to rot here in this shithole.

Secondaries, you're not welcome

I mostly play shmups but sometimes I play other arcade genres. I tried Denjin Makai, really fun game. The start of this sounds a lot like Twin Cobra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJb195ANw10

>>6188690
It'd be too dead. Westoids don't care about the arcade or arcade culture like the japs do.

>>6188712
https://youtu.be/dqdlcFx2Ofk

>>6188630
2 MINUTE
259100 - jarpig

>>6188630
The points you need are as follows:
1. Destroy the miniboss head before his two halves connect. (80,000)
2. Shoot all 6 of the Z tiles (a bunch)
3. Destroy the two eyes at the same time (80,000)
4. Destroy as many tiles and enemies as possible.

That should get you around the top 3 scores.

It's kinda funny how bad I am at the most fundamental stuff. Star Soldier came out in fucking 1986 and I'm still getting smoked by it because I keep doing dumb shit like flying right into the one bullet on screen or flying into an enemy because I'm just mashing down the d-pad like a neanderthal.
>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 344900 - shmupg gang
2. 344000 - NLM
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 259100 - jarpig
5. 255200 - Character O
6. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

Gonna be real with you lads, I don't think Star Soldier is a very fun game.

>>6188782
I really dislike when the ship goes below the scenery and you can't shoot

>>6188794
Yes it fucking sucks, the fully upgraded weapon has the worst type of spread for the kinds of fast enemies you have to kill. At least it's not boring though so that makes it a step above the average NES shmup

>>6188775
205900 - Ricardo
This game is extremely annoying due to what's been said already, but I tried it at least (kept playing until I got the two big bonuses).

>>6188817
>kept playing until I got the two big bonuses
I still don't know how to destroy this big fucking face to get the bonus. A similar one in Star Force was much easier to earn.

>>6188840
I stay in the bottom center so that my spread hits the 2 top halves and then let it sandwich me for a bit, usually I can kill it before it forces me outside but sometimes I have to use the side shot

>>6188840
It's really easy, have max autofire, first get right below the top left or top right chunk, then when it moves to the middle move below it. It should be destroyed before it comes together.

This should work too.
>>6188845

I'm coming into Star Soldier after playing Star Prince on Retro Game Challenge, which is basically the same game but with a little more mechanical depth, so I like it. That said, this was the first caravan game Hudson ran, so stuff designed more for helping players survive like flying under cover I guess didn't translate over well to furiously scoring as high as possible.

>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 344900 - shmupg gang
2. 344000 - NLM
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 259100 - jarpig
5. 255200 - Character O
6. 205900 - Ricardo
7. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

Also gotta say having a game with checkpoints that isn't even designed to be 2 minutes (you awkwardly beat a boss then the game ends a bit after the second stage starts) makes this seem like they really didn't get the caravan idea yet.
This is just the first two minutes of a game not made to be played this way.

>>6188862
I think what makes this interesting for caravanning is that enemy waves will only appear after the last wave is cleared, so combined with the destruction and hidden panels that have to be found, there's a kind of timer aspect inherent to the game - you want to time the waves so that you get as many kills as you can without getting pushed out of the chance to get a panel or get something like the midboss showing up at an inopportune time. For a little while I kept getting the midboss to show up right when I needed to get a panel, costing me 4000 points each time. That also means that getting the screen cleared by getting a weapon upgrade when you're already full power can be a meaningful decision by costing the points that you would have gotten killing the enemies in order to get a faster enemy tempo. There's also a little subtlety with the weapon upgrade itself - the spread gun kills enemies quick, but the straight shot deals damage against the bosses quick, so you may choose to take damage in order to drop a weapon level so you can deal more damage to the boss.

I suspect all of these dynamics will get more play in the 5 minute run, which only one other person has done so far. Keep in mind that the 2 minute game was just the qualifying round in the official caravan, and the competition itself was the 5 minute.

>>6188892
That element is not exclusive to this game, it comes from the OG Star Force
>and the competition itself was the 5 minute.
Oh so that's the real deal. I mean I'd try to play more but I just can't get around how annoying the flying under stuff is.

>5 minute mode awkwardly ends in the middle of stage 3 right before those eyes that give you a bonus show up

>>6188853
I guess I could post it... Even though it's my first time playing through the 5 minute mode just to see and I missed several bonuses.
227500 - Ricardo
I'll gladly try harder if the next game is better. Weak start unfortunately.

The flying under is just learning what does it. If it's a hole in the ground, you'll fly under it. It's definitely annoying, though.
>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 344900 - shmupg gang
2. 344000 - NLM
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 259100 - jarpig
5. 255200 - Character O
6. 205900 - Ricardo
7. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 227500 - Ricardo
3. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

>>6188965
It also has the typical flaw of dragging bullets by moving the screen left/right instead of properly programming them with that into account. This is probably what fucks you up as a noobie, it's a terrible feature.

>>6188919
Also, I don't mean that SS is the first to do it, just that the nature of Caravan means that those little things end up taking a lot bigger weight because you need to squeeze every last point out of that time limit.

>>6189025
Look into the time attack mode of Dangun Feveron. The name is bad, it's simply a 3-minute caravan mode (properly made, a new 3 minute stage not found in the original game), I think more people will be willing to try that.
The game is very fun, it's about destroying enemies asap so they drop more discomen, and then grab all of them (if one of them exists the screen you lose the chain and your score tanks). The patterns and movement speed are extremely fast.
Honestly, it's a shame that short alternative modes for shmups are such a rarity. I don't know of any other arcade with it, and newer shmups for console/PC don't have this either afaik. It's a great introduction to the genre and a appropiate way to add content to the games.

>>6189041
I admit that part of why I went with SS for the first game was to be cute of having the first ever caravan game, but also because I figure that people in here would prefer something simpler to hop into rather than have to learn a whole new complex game alongside the shmups they're already playing just for a two week competition.

I'm planning to pull from this list along with other stuff I find: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20173

Part of the problem is also just convincing people to get the game. There's a doujin successor to Star Soldier called Soldier Force that adds more mechanics and has like 14 different caravan maps, but it's a 2006 Japanese pc game. Comparatively, a NES rom is an easy download.

>scoring autism fit didn't die with the last thread

wonderful

>>6189094
>doesn't want posts about scoring
>on an arcade thread
back to elf. the times of namedropping sick grabs are over. this is a thread for players.

I was playing a few random games in shmupmame and came across Dangun Feveron. That game is awesome, I'll dedicate my time to it

>>6189091
I get it, it's just that the game is kinda bad and the caravan concept is still not well implemented either. Just the first 2/5 minutes of a regular game.

>>6189121
Worth it

>>6188274
that game is garbage

>>6189124
Hm. I admit that I didn't except such a bad reception for the game from so many people. Well, I'd at least like to take a more real shake at the 5 minute mode now that the 2 minute boards seem like they're pretty close to optimal, and I think that maybe people might warm up to it a bit if they try optimizing on the 5 minute. I'd also like to see if there are any other takers who might not have seen this yet. But I guess I'll shorten the time we'll spend on it and move on to another game. Maybe a week? 5 days?

>>6189161
Just get that people have issues with it not due to being easy/simple, just to being annoying or flawed.

>>6189164
Right. I suspect probably anything but Star Soldier would play over better with the crowd.

2 MINUTE
346300 - NLM

>>6189119
>playing for best scores
i sleep

>playing for best times
REAL SHIT?

>>6189171
Just beat it again

2 MINUTE
348900

>>6189173
That's cool, try to get people into playing arcade racing games and compete for time.
>console game waifu
Oh you're just here to shitpost, right?

Lead by example, not by complaining about what others are doing (because it's on-topic).

>>6188067
>thread made by a ban evading discordfag shitposter

uhhh mods?

>>6189192
A stunning upset heralds a new board leader! Will this be the end of the line for the two minuters?

>CURRENT BOARDS:
>2 MINUTE
1. 348900 - NLM
2. 344900 - shmupg gang
3. 334400 - Cave owns bitch
4. 259100 - jarpig
5. 255200 - Character O
6. 205900 - Ricardo
7. 42700 - Feetsies
>5 MINUTE
1. 910400 - shmupg gang
2. 227500 - Ricardo
3. 137900 - Character O
>RAPID MEASUREMENT: 10 SECS
1. 88 - higgins.jpg
2. 86 - Character O

>>6189227
>thread thriving with discussion and people playing
>this seething mangina had to show up
back to elf

>>6188380
>>6188406
He ignored the argument because he was too dumb to understand that classic shmups are just as hard as danmakus, so all the scoring tricks added by danmakus become trivial since they don't offer an objectively higher challenge.
Who the duck is gonna say getting a high score in Esprade is objectively harder than a huge score in Tatsujin Ou? Lmao!
In the end you're just routing and shooting, and all the little details fade away.

>>6189227
Imagine paying for a vpn just to post here and force a thread alive.
Guarantee half the posts in this thread are one guy with multiple ips.

>>6189254
The chad Dad logician vs the Virgin autist in denial

Also here my replay of my route. I purposely kill myself before the boss, because it probably gives you more time to get more points.

https://streamable.com/jwy7u

>>6189254
You have no idea. Just compare stage 1 in classic shmups to stage 1 in modern ones. The former are typically trivial to maximize, while the latter are filled to the brim with scoring activity. You'll have to readjust your route a lot, and you will always be able to make tiny execution improvements and consistency.
This matters because you'll be playing that stage 1 all the time. For advanced players, a game where every part is dense and deep is crucial. Classic games are fun to play but you can't deny that replaying their early stages, if your goal is to push yourself, gets old super fast.
Stop bitching. Get MAME and play the first stages of Raiden and DoDonPachi. Try to get the best score possible in each. You'll quickly see what I'm saying.
Does this make Raiden worse, or bad? No, it's fun, just less optimized for the highest levels of play. Cave games are and that's why they attract high level players and play.

>>6189119
I was talking about the cave scoring vs dadshmup scoring conniption that took place above, I think the posting scores shit the one anon is facilitating is wonderful

>>6189281
Fair enough
Yeah it's a useless discussion, I have no idea why they bother to entertain that clueless retard. The only thing he has to do is play shmups a bit to understand why he's wrong.

>>6189283
it's another example of legitimate autism spectrum black and white thinking derailing a thread, also the total inability of some maladjusted people to not have the last word in a pointless argument.

>>6189243
I would have no problems with an arcade thread if it wasn't made by a discordfag and his ciclejerk. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

>>6189283
>>6189281
Let some time pass before you samefag, insecure twat

>>6189278
>infinite looping games with tremendous difficulty
>uhhh let's just look at stage 1
You fail so hard youre making retarded analogies about tutorial stages. Proves how dishonest you are and won't compare games fairly. If the stages offer the same objective challenge then all those scoring tricks don't mean anything.

Show that on average danmakus are way way harder than classic shmups (no cherry picking). You can't.