/vr/ - Retro Games

Is Raiden Fighters really the first game with grazing? Are there any other early examples or "prototypes"?

>>6176284
Am I just fucking bad or is Strikers 1945 II fuckin hard? I can get about two stages in without dying on normal. I do forget to use my bombs constantly though.

Why did the dadcore thread get deleted, it was comfy.

>>6176284
i booted up gunbird 2 because i remember liking the game as a kid. jesus christ it's hard as fuck.

>>6176358
It's not easy, Psikyo games require pretty strict routing you won't get far if you don't plan ahead and just try to wing it. Stage 3-4 are where the bullet speed and pattern density start ramping up, start playing more consciously.

>>6176386
Hardest first loop 1cc in the entire Psikyo library, worth it though, awesome game. Tavia makes some patterns easier since her melee erases bullets

I don't hate Psikyo, but there is something off putting about the graphics of their games. They feel too smooth or something, I can't quite put my finger on it. Anyone else feel like this?

>>6176395
They are pre rendered CGI with very dull colors and muddy textures, I think they are unappealing too. Music is mostly boring too, they really survive on the strength of their gameplay.

>>6176284
Game?

>>6176403
Rayforce

Terra Diver

>>6176403
>>6176418

>>6176395
>>6176395
>Anyone else feel like this?
No, they look fine to me.

>>6176396
>dull muddy colors
Not really, you sound very biased that's all.
Which game(s) filtered you?
You should give them another try.

Colorful.

>>6176475
I love Psikyo games, just not their visuals or sound. Gunbird 2 is an exception, its more vibrant and cartoony, their non pre rendered and full 3D games look better too for different reasons

>>6176284
Stop spamming the board with this nonsense. There's very little to discuss in this dead genre. You don't need more than one thread a month.

>>6176485
Stay mad jarpig kun

>>6176485
>half or more of the catalog is Final Fantasy threads? No problem here.
>one shmup thread? REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

*kills shmup thread*

>>6176517
Zoomakus were a mistake.

>>6176486
>>6176507
obsessed

>>6176541
>zoomakus
fucking what

>>6176485
I make a single thread about shmups, an arcade heavy genre in the RETRO board and it's spamming?

Is Shienryu any good? Never heard of it

Anybody playing ESP Ra De Psi? It's /vr/ but was Arcade only previously, is now on NS/PS4.
Would recommend

>>6176363
mods remove shmup threads all the time like this

>>6176485
mad that after reporting this thread too it didn't get deleted yet?

STG and Super Megaforce all day erry day

>>6176798
>Space Megaforce

>>6176710
>Is Shienryu any good?
NO.

>>6176896
Why not?

What are you practising bros? I'm learning a 1cc in Blazing Star and playing Soukyugurentai for fun

>>6176750
If anything should be deleted, it's that garbage doom thread.

>>6176726
it's not on western eshop

>>6177117
Will it eventually be on NA? I don't want to fuck with a jap account for one game, even one that's so hyped up

Darius is my favorite shmup series. I also like R-Type, Einhander and Thunder Force, but there's something about Darius.

>>6177060
At least it's just 1 thread instead of the dozens of RPG ones eating up the board's space.

>>6177138
The aesthetics are really cool to me. I like the weird techno sea life thing it has going on

>>6176389
Yeah I'm slowly getting better but shits hard. I do really like the charge/magic attack mechanic psikyo games have. Shooting a big missile at the right time and killing a bosses drones feels really good

Just started playing pic related on xbox via the taito legends 2 anthology. Any tips? I have been keeping the grid weapons in front to soak up bullets but I feel like there is more to it than that. Its easy to feel like you are protected but then get sniped from the side.

Whats the best ship to play? I really like the B2 but its slow and seems to have a bigger hitbox.

Taito Legends 2 also has darius gaiden fyi.

>>6177138
Do you like the new(ish) one? I like that it has Space Harrier in it, if you pay money

What's a good shump to get my first 1cc at, something not ball busting.

>>6177506
Batsugun Special Version's first loop
Best starting point into arcade shmups, will teach general skills for many styles
Fun, good presentation too
Pick ship B and remember that you get a 1 hit shield that doesn't stack every time the exp bar fills.

>>6176748
trannyjanny gotta make more room for RPG threads after all

What are some shmups with unique mechanics? I tried X-Multiply on a whim the other day and thought it was really cool.

>>6176897
He got btfo by its rank system. Or he's a shitter that doesn't like classic checkpoint shooters.

>>6177506
Start with the Grads.

>>6177526
Deathsmiles - R-Type like bullet blocking options that can be rotated in 360 directions
Espgaluda - slow-mo
Mars Matrix - bullet reflecting
Ikaruga - polarity and color chaining system
Guwange - you control the main character and a spirit that slows down/cancels bullets at once
Psyvariar - you buzz bullets to get level ups and invincibility frames, flips the risk vs reward of shmups on its head and gets you to dive into big clusters of bullets
Revolver 360 - ship serves as a crosshair, can rotate the area

Theres way more

>>6177526
Dogyuun: has a very fun speed module. Once you grab this power-up, you can hold a button to move extremely fast, whenever you want. It lasts forever until you die or decide to get the bomb module. You can do sick moves like leaving it, grab a bomb module, using a bomb and then re-grabbing the dash module. Also, the game has interesting weaponry: two of the possible shots are homing ones, but one prioritizes air enemies and the other ground enemies.

Vasara 2: A shmup where the best option isn't to shoot most of the time, but rather charge a melee attack that destroys most bullets (except ones that are color coded) that you can use constantly.

Shippu Mahou Daisakisen: A shmup/racing hybrid. To play it fully, you have to place well at the end of each stage. You go faster by being as much to the top of the screen as possible, and by not shooting but holding a button. So there's a balance between that and the safer, play from behind and shoot enemies approach that you'd naturally take.

Zero Gunner 2: You can shoot in all directions by turning around, and the game takes advantage of this in its level design. It plays better than it sounds (you can hold any given shooting angle you want).

>>6177535
>gay elves
This just turns me on, how is it an insult

>>6177590
>>6177571
Thanks anons, I'll look into some of those.

>>6177520
This is fun, thanks anon.

>>6177606
Glad you enjoyed it, it's usually a successful recommendation to noobies. Easy but fun.
The game also provides gradually higher level play if you decide to keep playing it after the first loop clear; you can clear up to 4 loops, which is a medium-level achievement and after that you can try getting the score as high as possible to the point it no longer increases, which is an advanced achievement.

tfw I'll never be a Japanese kid in the 90's with a Super-CD and a Sega Saturn
I was stuck with SNES and the only shooter I had on it was Phalanx because my mom thought the cover was hilarious

Some of these were in arcades and or have better ports on newer consoles but most of them are unique to the TurboGrafx CD/PC Engine CD.
Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder are my favorites. Great music.

>>6177526
Spriggan Mk2, Radiant Silvergun, Brave Blade, Chaos Field: melee close-ranged weaponry.

how can anyone play daifukkatsu? I've 1cc'd daioujou first loop and am working on OG DDP but fuck daifukkatsu makes me feel like I'm gonna have a seizure, I can't fucking see anything. that 3d rendered style in shmups was a mistake, I can give mushihimesama a tentative pass on it because it's fun and comfy and I can actually see what's killing me l

>>6178078
+ Gunbird 1 and 2

M2 needs to make a console port of this game. It's tragic that it's never been released outside of arcades.

>>6178196
Possibly with a minimalist arrange that fixes excessive milking like the latest ESPRADE port.

>>6178196
Never cared much for Raizing's jankshit, myself.

>>6176580
Zoomer + Danmaku, aka underage fags who only play Cave or Cave-like (2hu, CCWI, etc.) shmups and shit on any other style of shmup, like that guy who was complaining about Tatsujin Ou in the dadcore thread.

Lads what are some shmups with weapons you can aim?

>>6178279
One thing is to dislike a game for having some flaws, another is to shit on shmups that have stylistical differences to the particular style one prefers.
>bomb doesn't make me totally invincible nor destroys all enemies on screen, therefore bad game!
What a moron.

>>6178313
Hyper Duel comes to mind.

>>6178279
>>6178323
You are both simpletons. I don't dislike old school shmups (though in some aspects they are worse generally) or even Toaplan games, just Tatsujin Oh which is a very dull game. The bomb was just a minor example of jank, the bigger issues are things like the terrible pacing and length which funnily enough the other guy acknowledged though characterized differently.

>>6178313
Cybattler, Gun.Smoke, Rolling Gunner

>>6178338
The "terrible pacing" meme was already debunked, go play again and notice that those pauses you notice are just substages.
Go play Vimana if you actually want to see a dull Toaplan game.
The loop is a bit long but it isn't game breaking. The game doesn't repeat enemies from previous sections all the way to the end. It stays fresh.

>>6178352
Where the fuck was it "debunked"? Saying that the levels are split into chunks with popcorns in between changes literally nothing because those sections are still there. Vimana is actual trash that's not even worth testing, Tatsujin Ou has redeeming qualities

>>6178360
What's the issue with that approach? The game is very hard, if it didn't have any parts to breathe it'd become unreasonable. Other shmups simply let you pause for a bit between stages, here it's different, everything is connected and it goes for this instead.
You'd notice this and thank the less intense parts if you actually played and tried to beat the game, it's actually great pacing. You can't just go all in 100% of the time when a game is meant to be played for as long as possible (see how stuff clicks? long loop, infinite game, pacing for that).
Are you going to complain next about Gradius stage transitions for having popcorn spam?

>>6178379
damn dad schooling the zoomie hard

>>6178243
please explain how it's jankshit? You sound like a shitposting retard.

>>6178379
I reject your assumption that players necessarily need breaks, this is the kind of shit that leads to cinematic pacing in modern games. Psikyo games are hard and they have next to no room to breathe, very short loops and are satisfying to play. Tatsujin Ou being hard in some sections doesn't make its length or filler-ridden pacing better, it makes it worse because you're going to replay these sections that you've not only mastered but that didn't even pose too much of a challenge to begin with a lot, and since there is no scoring depth, there's nothing to do there at all but wait until the screen scrolls. Shmups that let you pause between stages are much better because it gives you choice over how much you want to wait without harming the pacing at all, and these sections aren't as rare as you're implying either.

Who is shitposting who

>>6178397
can't even reply to my post properly. Thanks for proving me right tard.

>>6178404
? I'm not that guy you were arguing with, you're fucking delusional

>>6178395
>I reject your assumption that players necessarily need breaks
Poser detected, you can't just play at your 100% without a single brief pause for too long. See Gus, he pauses between each Futari Ultra stage, which are only a few minutes long.
>this is the kind of shit that leads to cinematic pacing in modern games
What a leap of logic eh
>Psikyo games are hard and they have next to no room to breathe
Yes, they give you a pause after every stage, these are 2 minute chunks.
>Tatsujin Ou being hard in some sections doesn't make its length or filler-ridden pacing better, it makes it worse because you're going to replay these sections that you've not only mastered but that didn't even pose too much of a challenge to begin with a lot
Post yourself playing through the early parts blind with no problem.
>no scoring depth
Less important because the game is hard. Even something as early as the first boss needs a very particular and tense method to safely destroy for survival.
>Shmups that let you pause between stages are much better because it gives you choice over how much you want to wait without harming the pacing at all, and these sections aren't as rare as you're implying either.
This is fair and what you should have said from the beginning, instead of just shitting on the game. But those areas come as often as pauses usually come in shmups (2-3 minute chunks. It's up to preference, this gives Tatsujin Ou a more organic feeling, going between hard bits connected by relatively easier ones to calm your nerves, with the game getting harder and harder until it hits its peak at the last chunk of stage 4 with its boss -> the first chunk of stage 5, until the end. After this the game goes much more intense as a whole.

>>6176748
It's fine as long as you guys don't chimp out and start posting stale bait meme garbage, you wanna talk about SHMUPs, talk about SHMUPS without being fucking idiots about it.

>>6178426
>chimp out

>>6178426
If this were the case they'd remove posts, not the whole thread. Face it, there's an anti-shmup agenda around. As soon as there's activity there's a nuke.

The real shoot em up is going to your school

>>6178421
>What a leap of logic eh
It's not, what you are proposing that players HAVE to take breaks and this must lead into level design, the exact same mentality that informs modern game design. If the intention was truly to give the player breaks then there are much better ways to go about it, as Cave has shown.
>Post yourself playing through the early parts blind with no problem.
Define early parts. I can casually float through waiting for certain enemies or bosses to show up in the first level. The game undoubtedly has very hard parts, their existence doesn't mean that the game overall is well paced though.
>Less important because the game is hard.
No, "hard" isn't monolithic, a game can be hard in countless ways. What scoring does is add variable diffculty to all parts of the game, what Tatsujin has is very brutal sudden spikes of difficulty and a bunch of down time in between. Scoring spreads out a game's difficulty more evenly instead of letting it oscillate between next to no difficulty and fast patterns that easily insta kill you.

>>6178432
Some threads start off so badly that they're not worth salvaging. This one is fine. The shitposts have been trimmed.

IT'S HAPPENING
>>6178432

>>6178449
Players do need some breaks. Typically, arcade games give you some optional brief pauses. What Tatsujin Ou and some other hard arcades tried to accomplish was to have a game that never stopped while still being reasonable to the player. Optional pauses are neat but this offers some advantages, such as never really disconnecting from the game. Overall, I'm just trying to show you that the game is no worse off for choosing to do this.
What's funny is that the game does have some flaws but they only show up once you really start playing so someone like you can only complain that the game doesn't copy everything from a particular mold of shmup.
>as Cave has shown
Fucking fanboys, shmups with pauses between stages was done waaaaayyyy before Cave. You REALLY outed yourself here m8.

Maybe you didn't notice but that "first level" is actually quite long, like 7 minutes. Some of the pauses come right before midbosses, which is normal (Cave does the same!). Others, between substages. I must insist, play the game again with an open mind after considering this.

Let me explain the last part: what I mean is that if the game is hard for survival, there's less need to rely on complex scoring to have fun replaying the game. Take DonPachi, that game is a snoozefest for survival until stage 1-4, it relies completely on chaining to stay interesting. Tatsujin Ou doesn't have chaining but survival itself is harder so tension shows up early.
You mentioned Psikyo earlier and they're a perfect example of this, the games are quite straightforward scoring-wise but manage to be fun due to challenging survival. Hence, them being hard makes them not need scoring depth as much.

>>6178395
small breaks are structurally important though. you wouldn't listen to a song that is 100% climax all the time would you? (actually there's a time and place for that approach but I think it's inherently self-limiting, e.g. there's only so much depth one can communicate with harsh noise wall type music and whatever the shmup equivalent would be). they don't necessarily need to be silences (to extend the analogy) but dips in the intensity clears the palate for further increases.

>>6178474
>Players do need some breaks.
Players can take breaks on their own, a game's job is to just provide them with the means. Besides, if you believe this wouldn't you be against infinite loops on principle seeing as how the whole challenge is wearing down the player through endurance.

A hard game doesn't need as much scoring depth yes, but that only applies when the game is consistently hard, when the pacing is good Psikyo games require strict routes, have frequent spawns and generally a lot going on at all times without giving you moments to rest, and they still have room for additional challenge from things like coin chaining despite this and randomized early stages for what it's worth. Tatsujin is best described as stop and start, it's either bursts of difficulty or stretches of nothing going on with little in between.

But fine, I'll play it again with a fresh mind, if nothing else at least I'll get examples.

create a shmup thread on /jp/ where you can have a thread hopefully with out reddit memes and shitposting.

>>6178514
But /jp/ is filled with normalfags

>>6178498
I appreciate your effort but using different mediums as analogies like this doesn't really work.
It's as simple as the fact that you need to cool down slightly after every few minutes of pure intensity to be able to perform consistently. The guy we're talking with is probably a noobie and doesn't understand these concepts very well yet.

>>6178503
Cool. But I must insist, Psikyo has pauses like that. If you compare TO chunks with Psikyo ones, you'll see that the length is similar. TO simply connects it all together with less intense sections. Consider those "spikes" the real stages, and the other things just transitions.

Your infinite looping thing doesn't make sense, players need small breaks here and there, that has nothing to do with a game never ending.
Just imagine a shmup that was 30 minutes of Futari Ultra boss patterns. It'd be overwhelming to the player. That's what I mean with breaks.

>>6178519
uninterrupted 30 minutes of Futari Ultra boss patterns btw not even the pause you get in the real game when you go to a different phase of the boss. MAN THE GAME IS SUCH STOP AND GO, WHAT GIVES!

>>6178498
Sort of, those kinds of minor dynamics are necessary and unavoidable but arcade games do change things. Those small relaxed segments do eventually turn into silence after so many repeated plays, and the games are played in short bursts. Because games are interactive, there is also the option to let the player create their own dynamics, either through end stage screen breaks, or through systems like scoring that let the player control intensity to some extent.

>>6178527
lol goes to show the lengths that Cave fanboys will go to just to defend what they're used to at the expense of different shmups

>>6178530
Let's be real for a moment, how new are you?

>>6178535
Not at all, I know exactly how these games are played, it's why I generally prefer newer games with deeper scoring systems, single loops and tighter pacing. The thought of restarting a bunch of Tatsujin Ou runs in an actual arcade seems utterly miserable to me, save states are the only reason I'm willing to give it another shot.

>>6178539
I see. Tatsujin Ou is actually relatively popular in Japanese centers, you can see some multilooping gods chilling with the game. I'm OK with you heavily preferring tighter shmups, just don't assume these are bad either.

>>6178547
The original convo was about reasons why someone should play Mushihimesama 1.5 over Tatsujin Ou, so I named some, if you prefer it that's your business. Generally I don't like shitting on other shmups because you know who does that enough as is but an argument's an argument.

>>6178552
Neat

I got to the final boss in Mushihemesama Original twice on 1 credit today. It's only time I get the clear. Also fuck stage 3.

It's good don't get me wrong but why is my hitbox so big? also what the fuck is a garegga?

>>6178684
Maybe this will help you.

>>6178684
>garegga
>big hitbox
danmakuck detected

Not even a hundred posts in yet and the /shmupg/ays have already reduced it to a smouldering shitposting ruin.

Sonic Wings Special is my favorite game in this genre. I love cast of characters, the nice palette, and the ship diversity. I also like that it is challenging but not insanely hard like some other shoot em ups I've tried.

Based on that knowledge what other games do you guys think I'd like? I want to play more shmups. I know basically nothing about this genre.

>>6178687
>detailed gameplay discussion
>shitposting
yeah back to namedropping games until thread hits page 10

>>6178690
try Sonic Wings 3, it's also on the easier side and for obvious reasons it's close to that game in the elements that you like about it.

>>6178690
P S I K Y O

>>6178692
all of their games except for Sengoku Ace are ballbustingly hard so not the best recommendation for that anon
maybe he can play them with the easier modes found on console ports

>>6177138
I hate Darius

>>6178530
I actually really appreciate that response, player's ability to have a certain amount of control over the dynamics isn't something that occurred to me.

>>6178692
>>6178691
Thanks anons.
>>6178696
I don't mind a challenge if the presentation grips me and there's not really a risk to me leaving my comfort zone and at least trying these games on MAME.
I played Sonic Wings Special on Vita so much I can get decently far on one credit but I have never 1 credit cleared or really attempted to I am a casual player in this genre.

Finally found the shoot em up i played all the time as a kid. Raptor: Call of the Shadows. Definitely installing and beating this tomorrow.

>>6178696
True, Sengoku Ace and Gunbird 1 should be good though, or DC port of Gunbird 2

>>6178717
Gunbird 1's second loop is nuts

>>6178726
He can worry about second loops once he gets the experience, 1-ALL is a good milestone

>>6178692
>literally cropped out the big beefy dude wearing nothing but a fundoshi
why so insecure, anon?

>shump thread
>everyone is steaming mad

never change

>>6178387
Their pre-Fagawa games have a terrible power-up system that carried over from the Compile days, and their Fagawa-era games have bullshit rank systems which make no-miss runs literally impossible, not to mention the extreme RNG which usually kills runs when you're trying to score.

>>6178648
Mooshy Original is blind 1cc tier, step it up lad.

>>6178886
Not if youre new or bad

>>6178692
>no naked dolphin

>>6178872
>hey guys im new to shmups give me some recs
>standard lively 4chan discussion on danmaku vs traditional
>people just saying "this is my favourite"
>dariuschads chiming in about their space fish
>people giving legit advice on how to approach the genre
No you're right people are STEAMING

>>6178910
>dolphin
Why would he be in Psikyo's games??

>>6178914
Isn't there a dolphin in Sonic Wings?

>>6178916
Thats not Psikyo, their games would never have music that good

>>6178919
AAA-AAA-AAA-AAA-AAA-AAA-AAA-AAA-AAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8toaCZbnz0

>>6178886
No one is inherently good at shmup, retard.

>>6178942
Jaimers proves you wrong.

Are there any good PS2 shmups?

>>6178950
Gradius V and Psyvariar

>>6178950
Not really. The R-Type entry was terrible, Gradius was ruined by Trashure, and the Thunder Force entry was disappointing also.

>>6178948
Why do you think in extremes? Jaimers has been playing shmups for a long time. Even he wasn't good at shmups when he started.

Thoughts on the M2 shmups? Are they good entry level stuff?

>>6178976
They are very good for beginners. They have added easy modes.

>>6178976
Default arcade difficulty is quite high but they have some kind of novice modes. Ketsui deathtiny mode is supposedly really good and beginner friendly

>>6178187
You play DFK for a while and then get bulletwheeled. Every run ends the same, those motherfucking bulletwheels. I'm told practising them alone for a while helps.

>>6178313
Biohazard Battle is my favourite for this, unless you're using the yellow frontfiring chain shot or the homing. Each ship has its own weapon loadouts - usually just a green, blue, red and yellow, with blue, red and yellow having variants - slow, powerful bombs or 8 way for blue, bouncy rings or homing for red, vulcan or chain laser for yellow. Green is always a spread which looks weak but is nicely useful as a shotgun at close range. Your weapon pod always aims opposite your last movement which I found tough as a kid, but moving back keeps your fire focused forward, and moving wavy lets you spray around if you need zako control. It's pretty perfect.

>>6178875
>no-miss runs literally impossible
this is fake

>extreme RNG which usually kills runs when you're trying to score.
however, this is legit

Is Battle Garegga not worth playing?

>>6178323
>>6178345
>>6179225
Thanks for the suggestions, these look really cool. Gonna try em out

I like this thread. You're alright /vr/.
I am the Sonic Wings fan, I did some research into Psikyo based on your recommendations and found out that the studio was founded by former Video System devs that worked on Sonic Wings. Definitely going to play their games now.

>>6179517
Have fun anon, they are pretty hard

>>6179517
They are very fun games just kinda hard to get into for noobies due to how hard they eventually get.

>>6179541
>>6179545
I will do my best.
I'm sure I will have to credit feed hard to practice but if the games are fun I will definitely challenge myself by aiming for limited credit runs in the future. I think first loop describes the first playthrough before the difficulty spikes, right? That's what I will practice.

>>6179569
Credit feeding isnt a good idea because the games have rank and get significantly easier if you die, save states are extremely effective though. Also first loop just means beating all the stages and final boss once, if you beat the games they loop and becomes much harder. If you 1cc that harder loop thats a 2-ALL

>>6179569
Psikyo games repeat the same stages but (way) harder for the second round. However, difficulty increases quite a bit even during the first round. You'll need to memorize and execute well to clear even the first.

to add to this >>6179581
several Psikyo games even send you back to the start of the stage if you continue, particularly the Japanese versions.

>>6179581
>the games have rank and get significantly easier if you die
That I didn't know, but it definitely makes sense. I remember when I was practicing Sonic Wings dying and using a credit refilled your bombs and usually spawned in a max power up which felt like cheating but I was playing a console port on hardware so I couldn't save state.
Thank you again for the advice. I will use save states instead of free play/infinite credits then.

>>6178956
Why is Final so bad? Are you a fan of Rtype in general? Just curious. I bought it but havent dove into it yet.

>>6179593
It's not just the power ups, the bullet patterns themselves get slower and less dense and bosses get less HP, in rare cases they change so much that they require different dodging strategies. Savestates keep it consistent and are a better tool for learning anyway

>>6179618
Many don't know this, but Psikyo games have an intricate stage select mode you can access, which makes practicing with original hardware more doable.

>>6179624
Where?

Sengoku Blade is horizontal, I didn't know that. It seems fun though and I like the characters and visuals. Managed to beat the first two stages without dying playing as the large breasted girl so maybe there is hope for me yet. I died early on stage 3 and forgot to save state beforehand so I will restart but yeah I think I can do this with practice.
Time to play, goodbye /vr/.

>>6179628
Through service mode. Look it up

>>6179641
And that girl is one of the weaker characters. Have fun

>>6179287
It's worth a 1cc, but I wouldn't seriously play it for score.

>>6179676
nuff said

>>6178684
anyone know the differences between version Types 1 and 2?

>>6179287
>not worth playing
what youtuber said that?

https://youtu.be/fgJy9j04FJU

>>6179798
>what youtuber said that?
sick burn

>>6179796
Type 2 casualizes the game by turning the bullets into bright orange balls like Batrider's.

>>6179806
Does it not have any other differences? Because thats based af ngl

>>6179810
There are more like not being able to change option formations, but each ship having a unique one instead.

>>6179789
absolutely based and redpilled, 100% the truth that secondary posers don't want to hear

I love the way it move the character in Guwange and how it play(my only nitpick is the concentrate shoot), is there some Shoot em up/danmaku similar?

>>6179789
who is that shmufag? and why should I care?

>>6179904
it's a very unique game so no

>>6179926
don't worry about the person, but about the message

>>6179904
You might like Giga Wang if you enjoy Goo Wang.

>>6179789
What I love is when a noob mentions struggling with a part and a super player casually talks about how its not really that difficult.

>>6179954
Noobs don't complain about legit hard parts because they don't reach those, they get filtered on the easy parts, that's why they are noobs and have the scrub mentality, always looking for an excuse and reason to drop a game. They complain for the sake of complaining and want others to agree with them, they rarely take strategic advice and get offended when it's offered because you are implicitly telling them to try harder, and they hate that.

>>6179983
Preach it.

>>6179983
THE truth
scrubs, back to elf

>>6179983
> beginner has problems and asks for help
> good players just casually talk about how its not difficult
> beginner quits because instead of getting help they get shit on even though difficulty is relative and it IS difficult to them at their skill level
> blame beginner and not super player who could have just offered some simple advice and helped the beginner get better and enjoy the genre

You guys are the exact reason people leave the genre.

>>6179983
Sounds like bullshit desu, never seen anyone get offended at strategic advice

>>6180204
>getting scared off by a little elitism
They weren't cut out for shumps anyways.

>>6180285
yep, back to elf

So hold on, you can't at once complain about n00bs not asking for advice and sharing tips but at the same time shitting on them saying the parts are easy etc. when they ask for advice. At best they'll just stop asking and discussing the games and hit up farm strategy guides, at worst they'll pull a bitch move and quit the genre. You can't at once have elitism and patronizing attitudes but then turn around and complain about people not wanting to talk about shmups. If they're acting like a bitch after being met with normal advice then sure fuck em but I don't see that happening outside of a certain non-scrub German player

>>6180308
>If they're acting like a bitch after being met with normal advice
hint: this is what actually happens

>>6180317
It only happens if a. the player is arrogant or when you're acting like a condescending cretin when giving that advice, the problem there is the condescension not the advice. I've been giving advice to noobs for years and have never run into this problem because I don't treat them like dribbling morons unless they're being hostile

>>6180285
>elitism

This brings up a tertiary point. A lot of these elitist will put the shit out there that you need a PCB/CRT/Stick/ect to play. Some dont like sticks, cant afford pcbs, or dont have space for CRTs. Some make things out like you cant even play without this stuff. If you have 1 frame of lag too many you fliptables.gif. Some go so far as to act like a score isnt legit if it isnt done on a PCB. This puts a lot of newcomers off.
The community should be pushing whatever means gets people playing. Are there better ways then some? Sure, but people can migrate to those better ways as they progress.

>>6180371
PCB/hardware elitists are usually bitter collector shitters trying to justify their purchase, don't fall for their tricks. Input lag autists are based and redpilled

>>6179789
This inspired me to stop being a casual in shmups.

>>6179267
>this is fake
post your deathless clear then

What do you think is the best M2 game? I'm wanting to get either Dangun or Garegga

>>6178187
I don't think its the 3D rendered style, it's the fuck load of visual effects on the screen. I felt the same way about Saidaioujou when it came out, but the games look has recently grown on me.

>>6179789
>banana is now going through a quarter life crisis
lmao

>>6180614
Garegga has a lot of QoL improvements that you can't get elsewhere. Dangun you can play just fine via MAME.

>>6178886
if you didn't blind 1cc it yourself this is such a little bitch statement

>>6180627
yeah you're right, the 3D rendered style is still not something I'm fond of looking at but I don't think it messes with my play too much, it's definitely the migraine inducing visual effects

>>6177693
Sapphire and Download 2 are also really good.

HEY POOR PLAYER

>>6179789
The people who actually play touhou games are much more firendly and help each other out. While on the Arcade side everyone just name drops games and bitches about old shmups, cave, anime girls. Arcade shmup players are the true secondaries.

>>6181048
ok poojinfag

>>6181048
Alternate reality take

>>6177654
Nothing is stopping you from buying a used Saturn and slapping a modchip in it, or you know just using MAME or Mednafen
Don't let your dreams be dreams anon

>>6180204
I've seen it on shmup forums.
>scrub 1: I've been playing this game for years and can't get past stage 2! It should be made easier!
>scrub 2: wow are you me?! Finally someone said it! I barely make it past stage 1! This game is impossible!
>actual player: what? First 3 stages shouldn't be that hard, have you tried X, Y, Z? It didn't taken me long to figure it out and I'm new. Don't do Y, it'll kill your run.
>scrub 3: wow can't believe you're flexing and scaring off our players, typical elitism
>scrub 1: big yikes, have YOU beaten those stages?
>actual player: yes, try what I suggested.
>scrub 2: hey that actually makes sense in theory, I do make mistake Y often...
>scrub 1: nah I don't have the game anymore and I'll just stick to my original beliefs.
>scrub 3: elitism is killing this genre!

>>6181048
I tried touhou FDF and wanted to ask a question about it. I go to the touchy general on vg, 500 posts, maybe 5 were gameplay related, 495 were asking about waifu tiers and sharing ugly fan art and "cunny" pics.

>>6181094
Important point you made here is the difference between a newbie and a scrub
A newbie is just anyone who is new
A scrub is someone who may not even be new, but who has a terrible anti-growth mindset

>>6181102
>touchy
Touhou, freaken auto correct

>>6181102
What the hell were you expecting asking secondaries about games?

>>6176284
So, aside from Sonic Wings on my SNES, I almost never played any shoot 'em ups and I want to get into it.

Can you guys recommend me something not as hard and good to start? Prefereable arcade or 16-bit.

>>6181175
Batsugun Special
Deathsmiles

>>6181175
Try Sonic Wings again, it's one of the easier vertical series. Sonic Wings Special for Saturn/PS1 is like a best of compilation with most of the cast playable and enemies and bosses from the first 3 games.

>>6181104
People sometimes distinguish between the two that way, but in practice scrub is often just used for anybody who's bad at a game regardless of why.

are these shooters supposed to be played on stick?

>>6181198
>are arcade games meant to be played with arcade equipment
Hmmm

>>6181198
I use a saturn model 2 controller personally. I own a jap arcade stick with arcade parts and all and prefer a good dpad for shooters. Arcade sticks are for fighting games.

I just want to 1-all R-Type before I give up shmups forever but dammit I just can't do it

>>6181271
What's wrecking you? It's not a hard game to 1-ALL but very frustrating

>>6181271
>give up shmups forever
Why?

I wish for a 3-all X-Type. Of course only if it's on the model 2 consoles.

>>6180204
>>6181094

>>6181271
>What's wrecking you? It's not a hard game to 1-ALL but very frustrating

>>6181363
>What's wrecking you?
Can that guy be any more clear that he's asking the R-Type guy for more specific advice?

>>6181363
Stop getting offended on behalf of others

>>6181305
to become a full-time jarpig of course

>>6181305
>What's wrecking you?
Right now the whiskey. More generally, the fact that I can't recover starting in Stage 6 or so. Also is there a trick to that trash compactor faggot, I usually need him to show his eye three times before I kill him...

Really I can do every part of the game at least 50% of the time, just not the whole thing at once.

>>6181324
At the rate I'm going I'll probably die of old age before I can do R-Type 2

>>6181363
I mean I've had people on here flat-out tell me I'm a retard who's responsible for single-handedly ruining video games when I ask for help, not even mad

>>6181379
who's this cute girl?

>>6180610
It's doable

>>6181383
>Cute
Please raise your standards anon

>>6181383
based cranon

>>6181379
>be decent at Psikyo and Seibu games
>decide to throw it all away by taking HRT, making you shit at games and resort to Pokemon
Shame, desu.

>>6181382
>Also is there a trick to that trash compactor faggot
Yes there is a safe spot right here just stay there and shoot charge shots. Almost all the bosses have safe spots, sometimes multiple and the entirety of stage 5 can be beaten by just staying in the top or bottom corner, forget which

>>6180293
my favorite game company

>>6181421
Looks like raizing

>>6181363
See
>>6179954

I'm just saying, telling someone who is obviously facing something that is difficult to them that its not really that difficult isnt helping. Thats like a brain surgeon telling someone operating on a brain isnt really that difficult. It is unless you have developed the skill to do so through practice and education. Most responses like that usually just end in "get gud".

>>6181949
>I'm just saying, telling someone who is obviously facing something that is difficult to them that its not really that difficult isnt helping.

It helps me actually. Because it lets me know if I just suck, if I'm doing something wrong, or if that section is known to be very hard in itself maybe it has random elements or requires pixel-perfect execution. It lets me know if I'm blowing something out of proportion or if my complaint is legit.

Lots of players give up games and give themselves mental blocks because their fellow scrubs just agree with them "oh yes omg it's so hard this section is impossible!!!"

> Thats like a brain surgeon telling someone operating on a brain isnt really that difficult. It is unless you have developed the skill to do so through practice and education. Most responses like that usually just end in "get gud
Problem is scrubs don't get to the brain surgery part, they are stuck at washing their hands and complaining about how difficult it is to put the gloves on.

>git gut
Dude, that's a meme. Discussions don't just end there, experienced players might say that just to motivate you into asking more questions, to get more specific responses.
Or if they see you have mental blocks and aren't willing to take advice they'll just say "git gud" as a form of fuck off and try harder. Some scrubs literally dont' want to hear that a section is DOABLE, they want yes-men to just agree that it's "BULLSHIT" so they can feel good about quitting the game, "its the game that's shit! not me!"
etc

>>6181967
>It helps me actually. Because it lets me know if I just suck, if I'm doing something wrong, or if that section is known to be very hard in itself maybe it has random elements or requires pixel-perfect execution. It lets me know if I'm blowing something out of proportion or if my complaint is legit.
Exactly. Noob players need to know when a part is hard to them for now but not that hard actually, and just plain old hard. But of course they have to be insecure manginas that don't want to be humbled (which is the first step into getting better at these games: first recognize that it's not the game's fault, just that you suck).

>>6181967
>>6181980
Ok. Nevermind. Anyone in the scene long enough will see what im talking about. A genuine beginner mentions DDP being hard and some elitist, arrogant asshole says a DDP 2ALL isnt really that hard. A whiney bitch is a different story.

Point is, just try to help those that want help and are willing to take advice. You cant bitch about people quiting while being major dicks to them at the same time.

>>6182072
>and some elitist, arrogant asshole says a DDP 2ALL isnt really that hard
this is justified because there are clears that are notably harder such as DOJ WL 2ALL. DDP 2ALL is hard, not AS hard though.

>>6182084
Wow. Are you just trolling?

>>6182115
I'm not, DOJ WL is notably harder. Just ask any player that has tried or cleared both.
On the famous Japanese difficulty wiki, DOJ WL is listed as 45 (the maximum rank there is), while DDP is listed as 39.

>>6182165
>DOJ WL is notably harder.
No shit, dumbass. But your saying if something is not the most difficult it cant be considered difficult by anyone. What a retard. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

I still think your just shit posting. God I hope so.

>>6182192
Yeah to a noob everything will be hard at first, but they must also be aware of the full spectrum of difficulty. In that spectrum, DDP 2ALL is hard, but still a ways off the hardest clears out there. And it's good that the new player is aware of this.
This is not shitposting, I have no idea why you're acting so defensively. Notice how I did say that DDP 2ALL is still hard nonetheless, and the original quote was saying that it's "not that hard", which is objectively true when compared to other shmups.

>>6182192
>>6182210
clear example of experienced players having to walk on eggshells due to the noob being a mangina

>>6176284
mods do your job

>>6182217
based jarpig seething at seeing a shmup thread on page 1 instead of 10 RPGs

>>6182210
No one is talking about comparing difficulty of the hardest games. The point was smug assholes being dicks by telling people DDP isnt really that hard and implying that a beginner just sucks because he cant clear one of the harder games in the genre.

Then you chime in with "its not compared to THE HARDEST FUCKING GAME IN THE GENRE".

>>6182231
>DDP isnt really that hard
Because it really isn't... We have to use the standard of all shmups, otherwise almost every shmup is hard to jarpigs that have never played a remotely hard game in their lives.
Just like running for 5 minutes is hard for a fatass, that doesn't make it hard when compared to running competitions. It's easy, however the fatass is just terrible at running. It's hard for him, but not as a whole.
I can tell that coping with this fact is hard for you though. Not everyone will cater to this relative difficulty bullshit just to make you feel better about sucking.

>>6182220
lmao take ur drama trash to /vg/ where it belongs

>>6182254
except mods literally remove shmup threads on /vr/ out of nowhere when they feel like it, just to impede growth or discussion

>>6182253
But even on the standard of all shmups, DDP 2-ALL is on the higher end of the spectrum, right? Like on the wiki it's a 39 when the highest number is 45. It makes sense to say there are harder games and it's not really that hard in comparison to those games, but saying it's not challenging overall seems wrong.

https://youtu.be/fgJy9j04FJU
https://youtu.be/aFFxDyzTbcA

>>6182258
yep they just don't abuse it too much so that it becomes an issue that could be reported

>>6182260
It makes sense because, even if the game IS hard, the gap between it and the hardest ones out there is notable.
It's just like saying that a character is A tier instead of S tier. There's a gap, but it's still near the top.
>but saying it's not challenging overall seems wrong.
Not what was said, these are the expressions
>not that hard
>hard, but still a ways off the hardest clears out there
Maybe you read "not that hard" and you think people are calling it easy, but no, it's simply referring to the fact that it's more doable than other games out there.

>>6182276
Yeah, that's fair then.

>>6182276
this guy gets it, just like fighting game people will call an A tier "good, but not that good"

For survival DDP 2-ALL is one of the hardest shmups there is, very close to max.

Only way you can argue DDP 2-ALL isn't hard, is if you add scoring achievements to the difficulty list. Because getting 700m in DDP would dwarf a simple 2-ALL for survival.

>>6182276
Your autism is doing that thing again, fren.

>>6182276
I was mostly responding to the exaggerated comparison of DDP 2-ALL with a fat guy running for 5 minutes, as if it's not really challenging in the grand scheme of things. There's harder clears out there, but not all that many.

For the record, experienced players will consider a game hard if it's around 30 on the list or higher. Then medium around the 20's, and easy (for an arcade shmup 1cc) below that.

>>6182283
Ask people that have played both and you'll see that they all agree on there being an undeniable jump between DDP and DOJ WL.
But yes, DDP is firmly in the realm of hard. Anyone denying that is indeed trolling.

>>6182292
The quantity of harder clears matters less than the the jump in difficulty between the hardest and it.

>>6182292
Yeah the comparison is exaggerated to make the analogy clearer.

>>6182303
>>6182304
Makes sense, got no problem with what you're saying then.

>>6182303
shmups aren't hard because they are susceptible to memorization

>>6182323
Wrong, some are hard because the execution requirements are tough even when you already know exactly what to do.
Typical comment spewed by clueless people that have never tried to play the games.

>>6182323
>playing music isn't hard because it's susceptible to memorization
this is your brain on jarpigs

>>6182336
>clueless people that have never tried to play the games

>>6182336
>some are hard because the execution requirements are tough even when you already know exactly what to do.
even metroid has some hard parts to do, but overall isn't hard because its the same thing every time

>>6182341
>>playing music isn't hard because it's susceptible to memorization
correct
making music is hard

>>6182353
m8 if you think that Metroid games even come close to even some easy shmups relative to others, you're deluded as fuck
Execution difficulty is a thing in shmups, this is why there's a phenomenon called run grinding: people that already know their route (i.e. exactly what they have to do to beat the game) but still have to attempt to beat the game dozens, hundreds of times before they can do it just because they need to practice all the hard parts.
Execution challenge is exactly what makes shmups fun, you first learn how to beat the game, then try to replicate that in real time. The fun comes in the process of getting better at doing this, reaching further each time. Just like the fun of getting better at playing an instrument and songs.
And more advanced players do this + scoring tricks to get more points.

>>6182354
post yourself playing this on guitar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oyhlad64-s

>>6182371
>run grinding
sounds more like endurance not hard

>beat the game dozens, hundreds of times before they can do it just because they need to practice all the hard parts.
so low-skill memorization routines.
any man with normal vision can do.

>post a guitar song
Why? There are 7 year old chinese kids that have memorized instruments and play them very well.

>>6182393
Are there any single player games you'd call hard?

>>6182396
Games that are not destroyed by memorization routines.

>>6182404
Such as?

>>6182420
Go, against the AI

>>6182393
>sounds more like endurance not hard
It's not really endurance because there's no way to guarantee it'll ever happen (unlike grinding for experience points), you have to actually get good at executing. In fact, many give up because they can't seem to improve enough to clear.

>beat the game dozens, hundreds of times before they can do it just because they need to practice all the hard parts.
No, attempting to beat the game dozens or hundreds of times but still being unable to do it (say game over on stage 4 out of 5). I'm guessing this is mind boggling to you coming from shit like Metroid but it's real. If you don't believe me, pick up pretty much any shmup on MAME (for you, you'll have to replay even the easiest a bunch of times).

>>6182453
This^^^^
Memo is big but so is mechanical execution or dexterity also shmups have rng elements

what is the hardest retro shmup 1-all?

>>6182453
>>6182491
Samefag

>>6182513
None

>>6182513
Apparently, Argus. From what I've played, Tatsujin Ou or Same! Same! Same!.

>>6182524
seething

>>6182513
Chadius III

>>6182596
not even close m8 (though it's quite hard)

>>6182354
The fuck do you think making music is, some divine secret art not available to mere mortals? It's all about learning patterns, seeing them in different contexts and then using those patterns to create your own music, its not intrinsically harder than learning to play an instrument.

>>6182443
Thats more in the realm of humanly impossible mate since the best player got btfo. How about an action game?

>>6182453
These niggas don't know that even the best players who played for thousands of hours struggle and die non-stop, some games just don't become easy, the higher end of shmups is full of examples of such games

>>6182680
their little jarpig brains can't comprehend

>>6181949
I said R-Type 1-ALL isn't hard because of the abundance of easy tricks that can get you past difficult parts like that safe spot, if someone's struggling either it's entirely down to mentality (they feel discouraged and frustrated because playing a game that forces restarts and guarantees no progress is new to them) or they are doing something wrong and need to re-examine their approach to learning the game. R-Type is very much a memory game, there are some sections that require precise movement and can't be cheesed in some way, but they are relatively few. Sometimes when people say a game is easy they mean that the problems the player is facing aren't going to last much or can be overcome with a change in their thinking.

>>6182707
they are used to the concept of easy being that the game pretty much plays itself

>>6182717
Yes, relative to that R-Type which requires conscious practice and effort does seem impossible but if you judge difficulty in such an absolute sense then it loses meaning, it HAS to be in the context of the genre or at the very least arcade games as a whole because they have a distinct gameplay style and a higher amount challenge on average.

>>6178648
Well I did it today first try

>>6183168
Same, I loaded up Dodonpachi DOJ for the first time and blind 1cced it.
Fucking /shmupg/ faggots thinking their games are hard.
No I'm not going to provide proof because it's just so easy, anyone can do it

>>618317
I should have been more specific and said that I got the 1cc on my first attempt today after 7 hours of game time total.

>>6183171
Mushi Original is a pretty easy game though m8

>>6183171
>>6183174

>>6183178
Literally all shmups, as well as all videogames are easy
I have the WR in about 20 games, after that I just stopped caring because it was so easy

>>6183184
*had
I just broke your WRs this morning

>>6183185
I just double broke no take backs your WR though

>>6183184
Some shmups are easy, can be cleared after just a bit of practice or even blind. Mushi Original falls into this category (some practice).
Sorry if this offended you because you weren't even able to do this before ragequitting the genre and going back to elf though. We shouldn't make fun of the disabled after all, and jarpigs are a fragile minority.

>>6183193
>weren't able
But I just broke every WR known to man? I would post proof but if the japs don't need to post proof I don't either

OK Mad Max

>namefag jarpig discord tranny drama
it's all so tiresome

>>6183197
What are you playing?

>>6183204
Strikers 1945 2 Plus and MS X
What are you playing?

>>6183206
>Strikers 1945 2 Plus
Nice, a game that doesn't even exist, another one to add to the list of shit you pretended to have played
Too bad jarpig poser faggots like you can't be removed here

>>6183210
Holy shit you retard you knew exactly what I meant
Now what are you playing? You've yet to tell me

>>6183212
You didn't tell me what you're really playing either
https://streamable.com/opyav

>>6183216
Except I did, yet more proof /vr/ just LARPs

>>6183221
What's the hardest of the possible fourth bosses in Strikers Plus for you? Order them tier-list style and say why.

*crickets intensify*
mmm... the smell of elf

>>6183231
Haven't got up to there, getting filtered by stage 3

>>6183242
based Mad Max filtered by stage 3 in every game even 1+ year later
it's time to drop elf m8 we've been telling you

>>6183253
Still not sure what this namefag shit is, but you haven't posted anything you've played

>>6183258
That game I linked, that's a recording I've uploaded
You playing dumb is always amusing, Mad Max

Play Psyvariar, buy Psyvariar, tell your friends, make Psyvariar 2 Delta a reality

>>6183271
Informationpill me on Psyvariar

>>6183275
Unique grazing based game where grazing fills up your exp meter which levels up your ship, giving you roughly a second of invincibility which you can use to graze even more bullets. You can often get huge level up chains where you use invincibility from one level up to quickly get another level up and dive into more bullets, with this it inverts the usual risk vs reward dynamic of shooters. But on top of that it changes the exp gain rates for boss fights and stages, so you will also have to do your fair share of dodging and enemy killing. The game has a lot of levels split into routes that you get access to based on your level, level ups also increase your shot damage and give you bombs which have a secondary use as a manual level up which gives you more options for scoring. The game can be one of the easiest shmups ever or reasonably hard depending on which route you earn by playing for score. It has a lot of boss milking but it's very fun, you are always juggling the exp bar to time it with dense patterns and reacting to the randomness which is all over the place. Great soundtrack, too.

Medium Unit is the first game, it's the simplest one with the lowest skill ceiling only letting you graze bullets once, Revision is an updated re-release with new levels and mechanics, it lets you graze each bullet many times, and Delta from my understanding is a remix of Revision with different stage layouts and some boss changes but the same mechanics.

Is Dreamcast the ultimate home console for shooters?

>>6183275
>>6183293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0p8xvjUC7o

Is the 360 version still the best way to play raiden fighters?

>JELLYBEEEAN
What did he mean by this?

>>6183431
What happened to the other thread?

>>6183432
What other thread?

>>6183436
There was a thread with Raiden 2 and someone posted that image as well, but it got 404d

>>6183439
mods just don't like shmup threads, they'll only leave a tiny space of their jarpig board to them

>>6183439
No sense in having two threads talking about shoot em ups. This one is fine.

>>6183450
But there's tons of JRPG and Castlevania threads up

>>6183439
Maybe he deleted it himself after realizing this thread already existed.

>>6183439
mods don't like shmups, they only let a tiny space for them on their jarpig board

>>6183450
OK trannyjanny

in dodonpachi, if i power up shots instead of lasers, does the laser still do more damage to bosses?

>>6183498
yes
laser is better, pick that

>>6183515
lmao

>>6183515
>>6183519
getting mixed messages here

>>6183529

advantages of shot type
>more powerful shot, still less damage than laser
>shot may cover more space, notable for ship C
>shot powers down less when dying

advantages of laser type
>laser comes out more quickly
>laser is wider
>laser pierces through stuff
>laser gives you a surrounding area that damages near your ship
>you move faster while using your laser
>laser powers down less when dying

your choice

>Vapor Trail still not in my mailbox

I'm a relative shmup beginner and mushihimesama futanari's stage 3 is fucking my butt. I can get there with no bombs used or lives lost and then everything just goes to shit, I can only reach the midboss like 50% of the time. anyway thanks for reading my blog I'll keep save state practicing

>>6183535
>Vapor Trail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyeZ2YgzE-Y

>>6183554
My guess is you're playing too defensively and let the bugs corner you instead of getting closer to them and taking full advantage of the generous cancels. Being closer to enemies does more damage in nearly all shmups so for normal hp sponge enemies you want to hit the sweet spot of being close enough to do a lot of damage quickly but being far enough that you'll have time to react and dodge their patterns. Memorization hopes too obviously.

>>6183554
>futari stage 3 is hard
Correct complaint. It is a wall for many new players. There are hidden bugs everywhere, there are lamps you need to cancel at the right time. The visibility is fucken shit in general. And the last section prior to the boss is very chaotic.
And the stage 3 boss is one of the hardest in the game which will most likely require a planned bomb.

Make a save state after the mid-boss and try to complete that part until you are comfortable. Watch some survival replays (ignore scoring replays that have insane rank increases and risky strats).

raiden 2 is legit hard, anyone who says otherwise should post their clear.

>>>>>correct complaint

>>6183632
For a new player it is fair to call it hard. It is a difficulty spike and harder than stage 4.

>>6177205
Title sounds like another term for bug chaser

Why the fuck do I refuse to use bombs half the time.

>>6183642
Self respect

>>6183642
Panic bombs in the early stages are not aesthetic.

do retro danmakus like dondonpachi cause brain damage or do they attract those with pre-existing conditions?

>>6183746
Why are you gossiping like a woman instead of playing or discussing shmups?

>>6183746
queers need to be purged im tired of seeing fake girls trying to pretend they are real girls and getting mad and pissy when you ask them if they are a natural born girl and always giving that what does it matter response. it matters alot im not a queer you dumb faggot

>>6183746
Where are they scores? More importantly, where are your scores?

Reminder it is one jarpig player who doesn't play shmups shitting up every single shmup thread with tranny talk. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the anti-hl autist either.

>>6183649
All bombs are panic bombs. That's the whole point of the mechanic. Remind yourself that this is not some Cave trash.
>>6183642
It can't be a conscious decision. In most cases, when you need the bomb to survive, it's already late to press the button. Just like most things in sports, human reactions simply aren't fast enough. What our brain does to overcome its own speed limit is learn patterns and then react preemptively. It's literally the only way to physically react to stimuli faster than 100ms or so. In other words, making a conscious decision to shoot a bomb will almost never be possible. What you need to do is learn the game enough for your brain to predict dngerous situations and press the button preemptively. It does this and then rationalizes the reflex post-factum, congratulating itself on making the decision. Press pause and think carefully right after you've successfully used a bomb: it's obviously not a conscious decision in most cases.

>>6183750
Im a plumber at work. On my way to see your mom, fix her pipes

>>6182665
plenty of retards can copy good music but have no chance at creating their own, too hard

>>6183765
>All bombs are panic bombs. That's the whole point of the mechanic. Remind yourself that this is not some Cave trash.
Intentional =/= Unintentional

>>6183770
As I said, unless you're a scorewhore playing a danmaku kusoge, bombs exist as backup reflex lives in case you fuck up. It's basically a "recover from death" mechanic with limited charges.

>>6182354
>>6182665
>>6183767
Clearly none of you are musicians. Playing music is in no way easier than composing. Interpretation is just as much of an artform as composition. That is why you know not just Bach and Beethoven but also Richter and Gould. Flat interpretation is on par with by-the-numbers composition in terms of difficulty and masterful interpretation is similarly on par with professional composition.

Redpill me on Garegga

>>6183789
It's not unfun but aesthetics are boring as hell.

>>6183767
>plenty of retards can copy good music but have no chance at creating their own, too hard
The fuck do you mean "have no chance", what do you think it's some kind of hidden secret anime technique that comes from an ancient bloodline of ninja warriors? They can't do it because they haven't trained to do it, obviously talent plays a role but it plays a role in everything, composition AND playing. And can be compensated for, you can approach songwriting analytically even if you don't have the sense for it. Furthermore, just because an individual is good at one thing but bad at another, that doesn't mean the thing they are good at it is easier than the thing they are bad at, it might just be a better fit for their particular talents or skills, or maybe they simply have more passion for it and put more time into it. Dumb cunt

>>6183794
Dont try to reason with a retard obsesses with trannys

>>6183765
>All bombs are panic bombs.
Planned bombs aren't panic bombs

>>6183787
creation is harder than repetition and imitation.
you can train thousands of kids to be brilliant imitators. but not composers.
kids can imitate very well but have zero chance of composing original pieces of timeless quality like Mozart or Chopin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZUzC4eti1I

>>6183782
>all bombs are panic bombs!
>oh well except....
Don't speak in incorrect absolutes, midwit.

>>6183805
Creation is intelligent selective imitation, a tremendous amount of diligence, and a few incredibly lucky accidents.
>>6183807
>also bombs thrown from airplanes aren't panic bombs
>also bob ombs aren't panicking
>omg ur rooooooooonk

>>6183794
Think of it like this, is it harder for an artist to repeat and play a great song he's already invented, or to create a different song, of similar high quality?
Of course repetition is easier than innovation. only in a shmup thread is this confusing.

>>6183813
I don't know what your problem is and why you keep saying stupid shit.

>>6183819
A better example is copying a good route versus creating the route. Shmup players aren't very bright so even that will cause argument.

>>6183819
>is it harder for an artist to repeat and play a great song he's already invented, or to create a different song, of similar high quality?
Extremely retarded point, I can make songs I am incapable of playing and will forever be incapable of playing in minutes and I can do it all day with no issues, and they won't even sound like incomprehensible atonal gibberish either. You should honestly consider suicide anon

>>6183823
I mean, you could ask actual players what took them more effort, coming up with routes or actually executing them, or you could keep guessing like the dumb non-player you are

>>6183819
>repetition is easier than innovation
That's a flat, overly simplistic view. With every repetition standards of quality and required complexity increase exponentially, so before long comes a point when repeating meaningfully is far harder than trying something entirely new.
You evidently know nothing about the history of arts.

shmups

>>6183840
No. Shmups are dead and buried, and you know it.

>>6183831
>That's a flat, overly simplistic view.
It's right though.

>>6183830
>I mean, you could ask actual players what took them more effort, coming up with routes or actually executing them
Obviously creating requires execution and repetition as well.
You're not going to make a route without executing it over and over.
Creation & execution > execution alone
Embarrassing you're even debating this.

>>6183847
>Obviously creating requires execution and repetition as well.
No it doesn't you fucking dumb cunt LMAO, I just told you I can make music that I cannot perform, and will never be able to perform, people do it all the fucking time either on sheets or in DAW's you think a breakcore artist can just whip out a drumset and perfectly play the drum patterns they make? They're completely separate skills and cannot be reduced to some weird "execution present y/n" choice, this applies to games as well there are plenty of examples of people who can come up with good routes but can't execute them worth shit, the whole tool assisted category of runs is exactly this.

>>6183854
> I just told you I can make music that I cannot perform
This only proves that it might be easier for you to create than to perform. It's an anecdote. I can equally say I can recite a poem I don't understand. Therefore it's easier to repeat than to create.

You're missing the point. When we talk about creation we include the process of execution as well. That's why a person who creates a route is doing something harder than someone who merely copies the route.
That's why a musician who creates (and plays) his songs, a sculptor who sculpts a great statue is doing something harder than simply imitation and mimicry.

You lost and no amount of name calling and atonal gibberish will save you.

>>6183847
>>6183854
You people obviously never composed music and probably never played it professionally either, so you really should stop yapping.
Composition is a skill and, like all skills, it requires tremendous amounts of execution and repetition. That it's a different skill from performance doesn't somehow make it not a skill at all.

>>6183860
>I can equally say I can recite a poem I don't understand. Therefore it's easier to repeat than to create.
LOL you cock you just reiterated my point. I'm not claiming that one is easier than another, I judge them individually based on the specific thing being performed/created and appreciate both as impressive if they are hard enough. You on the other hand ARE making the claim that one is easier than the other, because you are a nincompoop.
>When we talk about creation we include the process of execution as well.
This is your gigantic cope after getting schooled, you don't even include it in this very post and it completely falls apart when applied to video games, the main topic of discussion once you look at tool assisted runs.

>>6183864
You're misreading my posts anon, composition is ABSOLUTELY a skill, anyone saying otherwise is retarded, same as anyone who says that performing isn't a skill is retarded. Neither's intrinsically harder than the other, both can be developed separately though they do affect one another, and both can be insanely difficult and impressive.

shmups

>>6183868
I always included execution within the process of creation. If you separate the two then you are comparing apples to oranges, which makes no sense.
I said before that >>6183805
>creation is harder than repetition and imitation.
>you can train thousands of kids to be brilliant imitators. but not composers.
And here >>6183819
>Think of it like this, is it harder for an artist to repeat and play a great song he's already invented, or to create a different song, of similar high quality?

Again. And again.
You're missing the point. When we talk about creation we include the process of execution as well. That's why a person who creates a route is doing something harder than someone who merely copies the route.
That's why a musician who creates (and plays) his songs, a sculptor who sculpts a great statue is doing something harder than simply imitation and mimicry.

Cry more midwit.

>>6183871
>That's why a person who creates a route is doing something harder than someone who merely copies the route.
What about all those people who create routes but can't execute them??

>>6183872
99 times outta 100 creators are perform what they create in order to tweak it and edit it. The 1 off situation is an exception to the rule.
Who the fuck makes routes they can't perform lol

>>6183871
Your first post does not make the distinction at all you brainlet, your second post does but it's also very stupid. Let's drop the music comparison because at this point it's interchangeable and simply focus on games. Someone who comes up with a brand new route in an obscure shmup and executes it well is not necessarily better than someone who got a DOJ WR by copying replays, you would have to look at the difficulty of the routes and execution of the former and compare it with the latter, since skills aren't an on/off switch. Now, someone who comes up with brand new DOJ routes that are harder than current ones AND perfectly executes them will be better than the people that copy him and perfectly execute his routes, but that's completely fantasy and doesn't say anything meaningful.

If I'm a midwit that makes you the absolute bottom of the barrel, completely incapable of even the most basic logical thinking. Must be why shmups filtered you so hard

>>6183854
Now this is shitposting.

>>6183875
Anyone who has ever made a TAS with new routes for starters. Most routes aren't the creation of any one player either they are the result of shared knowledge

>>6183878
>Someone who comes up with a brand new route in an obscure shmup and executes it well is not necessarily better than someone who got a DOJ WR by copying replays
Another unfair and janky comparison.

First compare the same game, not different games.
Second use the same standard.
1. person A creates his own 3Billion DOJ route and gets 3billion.
2. person B gets 3billion by copying the route.

Which person did the harder thing? The innovator or the copy-cat? Obviously the innovator because he not only had to execute but also to create and modify an understand the game at a far deeper level than the copy-cat.

Any real tips for a DDP 1cc though? It was actually my first shmup years ago but I've never been able to finish it.

>>6183882
>First compare the same game, not different games.
No, because you are claiming one aspect of playing games is inherently easier or harder than another, if you say for example "innovation + perfect execution is harder than perfect execution alone" then yes you would be correct but it would also be a meaningless statement. And you know this, which is why you said some dumb indefensible shit like "playing music isn't hard because it's memorization". Now you are desperately trying to weasel out of that discussion and acting like you didn't say what you said

>>6183884
Don't hoard bombs. What parts are you having trouble with?

>>6183887
Stage 5 or 6. It's been awhile. I go back every now and then like "for real this time" but I bail on it after a few months.

>>6183896
>Stage 5
If all you want is a sloppy clear this is the right place to use bombs, always keep your finger on the trigger. Besides that, learn to stream bullets better. The key is creating good openings by a sudden quick movement when you're approaching the end of the screen, and taking advantage of openings when you see them, most of it is fundamentals and good bullet reading, but memorizing the location of bigger enemies will help a lot. The boss has a safe spot, you can use it to deal with his explosion spam but it requires pretty specific timing.
>Stage 6
No trick, it's just a matter of practice and memorizing the layout. It gets very chaotic and hard to see at times, learning the bee spawns helps a lot, being aggressive with the big mechs does too. Final boss is also a pure gitgud moment, but bombs help a lot, you want a couple for his final pattern at least.

>>6183909
Thanks. I'll fire it up tonight.

How's ESPGaluda 1 and 2 emulation these days?

>>6183579
>>6183584
thanks dudes, I'll keep hammering at it but a little farther up the screen now. appreciate the commiseration

>>6184058
I had strange hangups but otherwise seems fine. Was there a problem with them? Even 2 seems to have been playable for years.

So I'm looking for a schmup game I played back in like 2010. I played it on a random Japanese cap at an anime con. It was like anime ww2, scrolled left to right, and had one boss who had a puppet and when you defeated him the puppet looked at the explosion while the guy looked away. Can anyone help me with the name for this? I've been thinking about it forever.

>>6183765
>All bombs are panic bombs
Wrong, you sometimes use bombs to get more score than you could otherwise.

>>6183765
>>6183782

>what are planned bombs to make survival easier
I hate know-it-all posers

>>6184058
1 is perfectly fine. 2 doesn't have slowdown properly emulated.

>>6184110
akai katana?

>>6184058
I know its outside of this board but if I play the PS2 version of Eapgaluda on a real PS2 am I getting the authentic experience?

>>6184365
Who cares just play the superior arrange mode if youre going to play the ps2 ver

>>6184365
ports of retro games on later systems are legal

>>6184365
just play it on MAME

What's a shmupers right of passage? DDP 1ALL? Any 1ALL? 2ALL? Certain Score?

What gets you initiated into the ShmupClub?

>>6184405
1ccing your favorite game and disregarding what other autists think is the best game

>>6184405
>What gets you initiated into the ShmupClub?
pretending to like the genre while never playing it, and kissing mod ass
I'm not trolling

>>6184409
Yeah I'm not saying we need to tell people what to play im just asking if there was a common indicator of someone actually being a shmupper what would it be?

I fine with a 1cc of any shmup you like. I just didnt know if there was a specific achievement that when you hear that someone has accomplished it you know they are for real and not a poseur.

>>6184471
The indicator is regularly playing the games
If you do so you'll naturally improve and get some increasingly harder clears or scores
We have a big issue with poseurs that never play the games though

>>6184489
>We have a big issue with poseurs that never play the games though
Yeah we know. You screech about it constantly in these threads.

https://youtu.be/fgJy9j04FJU
https://youtu.be/KHWKGFeuawA
https://youtu.be/nct033XEsiY

>>6184058
why do you wanna play trannygaluda

>>6177571
>Psyvariar - you buzz bullets to get level ups and invincibility frames, flips the risk vs reward of shmups on its head and gets you to dive into big clusters of bullets
Sold, looking for it to play now

What's your dream game?

Bullet deflect area, but use limit
experience points/level up
shops for component upgrades
routes
hidden missions, ie blow up all the tanks, kill all heavy units before they run away etc

What are the best Taito games?

>>6185163
Space Invaders series
Darius series
RayForce/Storm/Crisis
Tokio
Fighting Hawk
Master of Weapon
Gun Frontier
Metal Black
Grid Seeker
Gekirindan

Damn Gun Frontier is kind of cool

>>6177571
>Guwange - you control the main character and a spirit that slows down/cancels bullets at once
Is there any punishment for using the spirit, besides limited movement?
I've used it as a wall to block boss bullets to some success

Is recca a good for a scrub clear?

FEEVERRRRRR
CAN YOU FEEL IT INSIDE YOUR SOUL

>>6185282
No you can use it freely at any point, though you often need the fast/vertical movement and wider shot to dodge patterns, move into place and have more coverage with your shot. Using it to block bullets is a very legit and useful strategy

>>6185294
play literally anything as long as you enjoy it

this whole "SHOULD I START ON [EASY SHMUP] BEFORE GOING ONTO [HARD SHMUP]?" is soi as fuck

>>6184405
DDP 1-ALL is a pretty good one, it's very beginner friendly but you'll have to work for it and learn most of the basics, you just want to get to a point where you feel comfortable with getting 1cc's as a beginner and move on from there

*ahem*

TWINKLE STAR SPRITES IS HELLA FUCKIN EPIC

thank you

Same 1p is this week's game over at HEY's stream

https://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv324187478

So I tried Giga Wing in Mame. Does this game normally have huge input delay or is it just Mame?

Been getting to the last boss and dying on Rayforce for about a year now. Those homing lazers and the green wave end me.

>>6185663
do you have vsync enabled?

im fucking ass at these games i've got like 12 hours in ddp and i'm not even close to 1cc first loop. fuck this.

>>6185758
go play air gallet, its better than any caveshit (and will blow your socks off).

>>6185758
12 hours isn't all that much actually. Keep at it and you'll get it eventually.

>>6185663
enable low latency for latest MAME

>>6185758
As someone else has said, 12 hours isn't that much for shmups. It's a bit much for DDP 1-ALL but not if it's your first clear. Keep trying, eventually it'll be smoother.

>>6185768
Akuu Gallet blows your *ocks off

I'm thinking about organizing a bi-weekly or so score attack competition for this topic. I figure we could just do an easily emulatable caravan shmup, people post screens of their high scores, and I keep a running high score table somehow. I used to run tables for Star Wars Episode 1 Racer on /vr/, so I figure just running one shmup would be a lot easier. Would anyone one be interested?

>>6183640
Imagine seeing a vidya game and only being able to think about disease ridden fag sex.

Fuck off to your shithole on /vg/, shumptards. This board doesn't need any more cancerous generals.

>>6185804
Not me, shmups are too high commitment compared to racing. If it's best score for one single stage then that might be fun especially the harder later stages

>>6185810
That tugfest broke up a while ago. Turns out fagmode neckbeard elitists can't really stand their own kind.

>>6185810
Lol @ this impotent rage at people discussing games normally

>>6185814
That's why I specified it being a caravan shmup. Doing a 3 or 5 minute game seems a lot easier to jump into than needing to learn and practice a full on 20-40 minute game.

>>6185810
keep reporting, jarpigs
delicious seethe

>>6185815
shmupg couldn't keep going precisely because people like you hatespamming it couldn't be banned

>>6185823
SHMUP BAD

>one or 2 jarpig shitposters is all it took to take down /shmupg/
lol, what a useless general

>>6185862
when a general is small (naturally with such a genre) and those shitposters can't be checked then yeah it ruins things

>>6185837
Mite b cool

shmupg so triggered they're reporting posts
____topkek

fucking FINALLY /vr/ mods are removing the anti-shmup shitposters that enter every thread instead of removing shmup threads

>>6185758
Its not a race, just focus on improving and having fun and the 1cc will come. 12 hours really isn't much, DDP was my third 1cc and it took me 25-30 hours. Look at the perseverance of this fuckin guy >>6185680

>>6185883
Shumpers are the shitposters by making their shitty generals here and the janitor is a retard if he thinks it's better to have you here instead of /vg/.