/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6167292
Geocaching

>>6167292
Almost nothing. The amount of amazing stuff that was thought of, or even done, but never made it to meme consoles is massive. I've seen shit that would explode your head. The only thing that would meet your criteria would be something that didn't exist in any form and couldn't even have been imagined back then. What could that possibly be considering the sci-fi of 100 years earlier?
I'd love to be able to come up with something and I hope someone does. But unfortunately I'm afraid all we're going to see a a lot of zoom. Like >>6167301. What is Letterboxing? What is a treasure map? Will your children find it inconceivable that earlier generations had physical things because amazon drones didn't exist?

>>6167370
See a lot of zoom? Get the fuck outta here and take your gay memewords with you?

>>6167292
User generated content.
I'm really surprised user friendly level editor games like mario maker and little big planet took so long to be developed.

I remember sharing custom mario levels and DOOM wads with my friends via floppy disc in high school but most kids at my school with couldn't figure out how to load custom anything. I always just assumed as soon as the internet became reliable enough it would be more popular than it was but Instead it was this niche thing for decades.

>>6167370
Please get a clue and realize most of the users of this board are very familiar with /vr/ as a topic and the "shit that would explode your head" is already quite known to them.

LaserDisc had an ability which was unique at the time it was released. It could seek to a specific frame and then stop on that frame. There were LaserDisc encyclopedia discs which were full of thousands of images of various things, each image being a separate frame of the video, which you would view by typing in a number from a book.

At the same time you could do this LaserDisc players could also superimpose graphics over the video. Games were made with sprites moving over a live video playing in the background. However, I do not think this was the application of technology.

Instead of running videos in the background instead the LaserDisc game could seek to a specific image and use that as the static background, and then allow sprites to move around on top of it. These backgrounds could real drawings and paintings. A variation on the idea of pre-rendered backgrounds. Animation could be accomplished by cycling through successive frames, and game logic could be used to switch from scenario to scenario.

This same idea was done with later in the 90s in various forms, but it could have been done in the mid-80s with great results. The biggest hurdle for this technology is how you need both a cartridge and LaserDisc separately for the concept to work.

>>6167292
Custom movesets in fighting games. MKX, Smash 4.

Modern roleplaying game with life simulator elements that's better than The Sims. KOTOR dialogue (and perspective), Shenmue freedom and gameplay, Seaman interactivity, Roommania #203 immersion.

Jet Set Radio with Jet Set Radio Future framerate.

Arena-based action game with the complexity of at least Devil May Cry 1. Power Stone or Spawn in the Demon's Hand levels, Berserk Dreamcast general sense.

Futuristic arcade racer with dynamic course obstacles. KOTOR swoop racing obstacles, F-Zero GX pacing, Sonic Riders course design.

Roguelike for consoles or PC with all of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team's and Explorer's bells and whistles.

>>6167292
programs distributed on 8-track tapes instead of compact cassettes. redesign the read/write head to handle all eight tracks at once instead of just two so you can load or store data 8 bits at a time in parallel.

Where there are consoles based on computers, like the Amiga CD32 and the FM Towns Marty, I wonder what a console based on the IBM PC architecture would have been like.

>>6167370
Jesus Christ, never post again.

>>6167618
A'can

>>6167292
FM Towns Marty had the GPS Car Marty. It could have been used in a region specific pokemon sorta game, with trading done over the modem.
As for OP pic, laseractive missed out on many opportunities. No shooting games like Mad Dog Mcree came out for MegaLD and that was a bummer. Would have been great for 2d shmups as well. Hell they didn't even adapt FMV games like Night Trap. They were all just Dragon Lair clones (Triad Stone, Time Gal etc)
In general I don't know why system link wasn't widely adapted in gen 4/5. They did it with the handhelds, but not the consoles. Lan parties were already a thing back then, but I guess it wasn't viable to move 100kg televisions close enough to play, was it.
>>6167370
>Will your children find it inconceivable that earlier generations had physical things because amazon drones didn't exist?
Of course. Kids now don't even understand how we used cds for music, even though cds still exist in stores.
>>6167480
>but it could have been done in the mid-80s with great results.
yeah, not sure why a NES laseractive wasn't a thing in the 80s.

>>6167292
I find it interesting not once has controller button colors overlapped. They actually thought it out not to have the same color scheme.

>>6167401
>all that zoom
called it

>>6167458
>turbozoom
called it

>>6167662
>zoom zoom
called it

Why don't you zoomers post some of your great ideas instead of just zooming? You understand that you're only proving me riight by zooming and being unable to come up with anything, right?

>>6167610
8 track data was thought of, done, and released commercially. However the exact method of storing one bit per track was tried and found to be a complete failure so never brought to market.

>>6167885
>zoom zoomer zooming zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom
Thanks for further ruining /vr/. Now get the fuck out.

>>6167885

Here's your (You).
Now piss off.

>>6167912
>>6167918
>waaaaahhhh
The ones ruining the board are the zoomers contributing nothing but their zoom. Take your own advice and go back.

>>6167870
Have you seen an SNES controller?

How about a handheld console with a lightpen, and PDA capabilities?

>>6167428
>what is Lode Runner?

>>6167520
Consoles with static ROMs and minuscule storage were not conducive to roguelikes.

>>6169239
sfc/3rd party snes (asciipad) still counts because it was the standard, and the sfc logo reflects the color scheme

>>6169239
>Have you seen an SNES controller
Theres literally a snes controller layout in that image you stupid fuck

>>6167885
Holy shit you're a faggot

>>6169396
>sfc/3rd party snes (asciipad) still counts as every controller ever?
You sound confused
>>6169449
So you haven't? Or you don't know the difference between layout and color?

>>6167428
>I'm really surprised user friendly level editor games like mario maker and little big planet took so long to be developed.
plenty of games released over the decades that came with level editors. game engines were released too. this isn't some recent development from the time of the retarded zoomers.

>>6167885
>8 track data was thought of, done, and released commercially
was not often used for data
>However the exact method of storing one bit per track was tried and found to be a complete failure so never brought to market.
you could easily use more than 4bits per track depending on the encoding, tape quality and speed. possibly 8 bits.

>>6169764
>level editors
>user friendly

A level editor is not a game where you make your own levels.

Level editors are not what I would call popular in the same way games centered around making levels are like mario maker and LBP which I specifically mentioned in my post or even Lode Runner which another anon brought up.

Learn to read posts before you respond to them please.

>>6169829
DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT? just shut the fuck up, you clueless fucking cunt. you're the kind of absolute cancer that makes this board a shithole. you are a dumb fuck. shut the fuck up. you don't know what you are talking about.

>>6169851

I'm zooooooming

>>6167292
>Hindsight thread
In hindsight, your mom should have aborted you.

>>6169794
I think there's a thread about how "not thought of at the time" actually means "thought of, produced, sold retail, but wasn't very popular" over on /zoom/

>>6169829
>not what I would call popular
Are you the same faggot I just replied to? I appreciate that OP has set a very high bar by asking for things that were "not thought of at the time" but that's no excuse for ignorance. Certainly not for trying to kidsplain your ignorance.
I suppose pistachio ice cream didn't exist in the 70's because you don't like it? You strike me as the kind of faggot who doesn't like pistachio ice cream.

>>6169608
I am confused. What do you mean by
>>6169239
>Have you seen an SNES controller?
I have no idea what you're getting at. That I didn't specify US snes vs PAL snes? IIRC even a few US snes games reflect that color scheme in their menus.
And I'll be damned, I took the time to make that pic and someone already had done it cleaner.

>>6169903
Level editors were not popular before the advent of the internet. The vast majority of 90s gamers did not give a fuck about them.

>>6169878
I wouldn't be surprised if there are no actual children on here. Just aging losers trying their darnedest to hurt the feelings of other aging losers over completely subjective things.

>>6169952
It's a lot of 30-somethings with the vernaculars and maturity of teenagers

>>6169960
I use my vernaculars to spy on ur mom har har

>>6169903
>I think there's a thread about how "not thought of at the time" actually means "thought of, produced, sold retail, but wasn't very popular" over on /zoom/

Learn to speak like a normal human being next time

>>6169972
Zoom

>>6167428
Now that you mention it, it's kinda surprising that Nintendo didn't make a Mario level editing and sharing tool for the Famicom network adapter. In hindsight it seems like the first thing you would do.

>>6169952
>reading comprehension is not popular now
This isn't a thread about what you think was popular faggot. And good god I hope there are actual children here and that you're one because the alternative is scary.

>>6169972
>learn to speak zoomer
No thanks zoomer

>>6169829
"Construction Set" type games were a thing in the 8-bit era. C-64 had at least Tank War Construction Set, Racing Destruction Set and Boulder Dash Construction Kit and there were probably more that I don't remember / know about.

>>6167401
this guy is right, what does "all we're going to see a a lot of zoom" even mean?

>>6169246
Yeah, they could just slap a few licensed games on it and make it render everything in software.

t. Tiger Electronics.

>>6170328
You are one miserable fuck. Who hurt you? Does it keep you up at night?

>>6170084
Or at least make an "easier" level editor for low level programmers at nintendo to make a million bonus level packs to sell at fds stations

>>6170328
>getting this autistic over a niche video game genre
>obtusely misunderstanding of general language as some sort of factual literal metric of a games popularity
>claiming the elusive "zoomy zooms" are derailing the thread by talking about video games on a anonymous message board
>too butthurt to realize you were the one shitting up your threads all along
Go on then, find me some sales data of games with level editors vs games without. Ill even let you count doom. You can lie to yourself but you cant lie to me

Too much. Every console has a wealth of unfulfilled potential because game technology advanced too quickly.

>>6167870
optical illusion. three of these match

>>6167520
>Custom movesets in fighting games. MKX, Smash 4.
Not retro, but a much earlier example of that is Sonic Battle on GBA. You get a robot named Emerl who learns new moves from fighting the other characters, and you can customize which of the learned moves he uses.

>>6170786
which ones? I see if you rotate snes 90 degrees you get dreamcast, but thats not the same as matching. Im talking top to bottom if they were all the same orientation as on the controller.

>>6167292
Hey Ive gone one of these!
smells like burning lead every time I use it

>>6167292
Making any actual good Amiga games.

>>6170780
I wouldn't say the Atari 2600 or the C64 or the NES weren't fully explored during their respective commercial lifespans.

>>6169286
> what are adventure and gauntlet
I'm still surprised SNES didn't see a late port of X-Com or a clone. Shit would've been super cash.

>>6171035
Not happening on a 4Mhz CPU.

>>6170484
>daddy won't let me pee in the cereal box because he's a miserable fuck
lmao zoomer

>>6170762
>all that zoomsplaining
>doubles down on zoom
The only one lying here is the zoomer pretending his shit isn't OT

>>6167292
Japanese developers making Amiga and Atari ST games

>>6170675
I dont know where exactly i read it but a "mario maker" game was an idea on shiggys desk for years but it never got any priority because it was assumed to be a dead end idea.

We could have probably gotten rythming games back in the 4th and 3rd generation.

>>6170928
>smells like burning
I have the same problem with mine

>>6167618
The earliest x86 would've been suitable was when SIMD got standardized but that took place at the near end of /vr/'s time period so it would've never worked, especially when Intel/AMD duopoly was cemented and none of them had semicustom like AMD does today. In my opinion, everything concievable with hardware during the /vr/ time period got tried and pretty much almost maxed out, but I do think some things like internet connectivity could've been introduced earlier like 5th generation instead of 6th in this case. And some shitty aspects like controller compatibility and memory cards could've been standardized earlier on USB and SD cards. Really, only software could've been more innovative and I do think that some game concepts could've been tried out earlier and things would've been more different.

>>6171542
I talked about this in a prior hindsight thread. It was completely doable, and I bet it would have made a lot of money. it would have been another laserdisc arcade game. Videos with graphics superimposed over them, possibly with the use of mirrors and LEDs.

I've seen a lot of discussions regarding various ways to use magnetic tape formats, but I think the best application would be a simple audio drama accompaniment for a timed game. The easiest genre to apply this to is the shmup. Or perhaps racing. The tape would work in a very simple way:

>start game
>game prompts you to insert tape and press play
>voice on tape tells you press START in 3 2 1 START
>audio and gameplay sync within 100ms or so of each other based on player's reaction time

Now you can do high quality OST with voice-overs for cut-scenes (which by the NES era could be pretty elaborate).

The downside to this approach is if you die you have to start the whole thing over, or the game is designed so that you are only given a score at the end and the play session is always the same length. The upside is it requires no specific additional hardware. Any tape player will do. Whether this sort of thing was ever attempted I have no idea.

>>6172112
note: I am aware of the existence of using tapes for storing game data. I'm referring here to using it as an audio accessory. There were tape formats that allowed the user to seek to a specific audio track, but I don't think that concept would have worked video games. It's too niche.

Audio drama tapes that can be played in any home tape player would have the best chance. If it had ever been a thing people today would be talking about wearing the tape out playing them over and over or losing the tape and having to play the game with just sound effects.

The actual gameplay experience could have been something like the Satellaview with its broadcasts. Or maybe the PC Engine CD. Certainly never a mainstream thing, but maybe one of those weird things people fondly remember of an era.

>>6170357
you may remember the ExciteBike's level maker if I remind you?

>>6172152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es6xVeuU6Ig

>>6172112
Oh you mean like this game

>>6172162
Yes, that uses the same concept, but it went in a very eccentric direction, and that was a mistake. But watching a video of the game the potential was definitely there:
https://youtu.be/0ZS6JVCDI9s

I think with some clever game design you could get around a little bit of the sync problem by having the levels timed such that you can actually die and restart sections within a time limit while the music continues to play, but if you are able to complete the section early the game will then go into a "wait" mode (imagine a ship flying through warp space or just a big fat WAIT message) to allow the tape to catch up to where you are supposed to be in the game.

Again, I don't think this could ever have been very popular, but it could have been maybe at the level of the Sega CD FMV games. Especially if you could get it out in the mid-80s.

>>6172175
>some clever game design
This was probably the biggest barrier (aside from budget restraints) - game design in those days was basic and developers had huge difficulty moving away from the "three lives and game over" paradigm of the arcades. Mostly a lack of imagination combined with a lack of existing examples. I'm sure a modern indie developer could easily come up with some "you can't actually die" type of game concept that would be both fun to play and syncronizable with a fixed length soundtrack but that's mostly because they have decades of gaming to steal ideas from.
I'm pretty sure plenty developers toyed with the idea of c-tape soundtrack back then but it's telling that only the developers of this weird mail order art game were crazy enough to actually go forward with the idea.

Looking back it sticks out to me how compact disc was only utilized in stutter-steps for several years and several mistakes were made in utilization of the technology and the physical design of the systems.

So let's say the year is 1986 and you're working at Atari, and instead of the Atari 7800 design we ended up with instead the company releases the Atari CD. Which has the following specifications:

>100% CD based, no cartridges
>not backwards compatible with previous Atari systems
>more standard video hardware similar to the PC Engine CD that would come 2 years later
>six button controller that resembles what would later be the SNES controller
>reliable flip lid design like a PlayStation
>instead of focusing on arcade ports focus on developing original properties
>always ensure OSTs are of the highest quality and memorable
>DON'T make gimmicky games that overly dwell on the CD feature, just let it breathe the way the PlayStation did

An Atari CD system with a game like Dracula X, or slightly less advanced could have made a big impact.

Basically just do a lot of things the right way the first time instead of having to learn from mistakes along the way. But this is a hindsight thread after all, and that's the game.

>>6173715
Also there is the Atari ST CD to look at as inspiration.
https://youtu.be/LGCpbBLvdeo

>>6173715
That would cost like 799$

>>6173887
I think $399 was doable in 1986 with a drop to $300 in 1987. 1st party games could be $30 to make up for system cost to the consumer and would be a selling point.

>What gave CDs their big push during the past year was the introduction of a new generation of players that offers greater convenience and versatility at prices far lower than those of previous years. Four years ago the first compact-disc players cost around $1,000. Today, discount shops sell highly competent models for as little as $149.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1987-02-27-8701130325-story.html

>Sony is in the forefront of the portable CD player market, offering the Walkman-style protable D-5 ($300), the CDX-5 ($600), an in-dash player for cars, and the CDX-R7 ($700), which is basically the CDX-5 with an AM-FM radio. But the real action is in the home player market. During 1983 and 1984, approximately 400,000 CD players were sold in the United States, and sales for 1985 are expected to exceed 500,000 units. Since prices decrease as sales volume increases, that is great news for the consumer. Prices for home CD players now range from as low as $199 to more than $1,000.

https://www.spin.com/1985/05/compact-discs-sound-of-the-future/

>>6173715
>CD-based system in fucking 1986
Lol I'm 100% it was only not done because it would have ended up far too expensive and no one would have bought it.
That's the thing with most of these "it would have totally been possible" ideas, the tech may have been there but it would have shot the cost to the skies, look at what happened with VR in the 90's, shit was just far too expensive.
There's a reason the early systems plugged into TV's and used C-tapes, it was a way to drive the cost down enough to make it attractive to consumers by relying on tech most everyone already had access to.

>>6174425
Read the next few posts before responding to the thread. CD players were not so horrendously expensive by 1986. The bigger problem with pricing is the company you'd be buying your CD player units from is going to be making their own stand-alone unit and they wouldn't want a game system to have the same performance at a comparable price point. So the player would pay a console tax to make up for the additional computer hardware and capabilities. $399 might have ended up making no money for Atari on system launch sales, but we know that can be a viable strategy in the video game market if game sales can be strong.

The problem in 1986 was not the cost of CD, it was the understanding of how the medium fit into the picture for games, as well as how to market video games to begin with. Watch that video about the Atari ST CD and see how Atari had no real clue about what to do with it and was focused entirely too much on the educational and creativity end of things, as well as support for proprietary CD formats that we now know no one cared about.

In the 80s companies waited for CD to be "mature" and wanted to introduce it gradually, but that was actually a mistake and it should have been put out as soon as possible in the form of a stand-alone 100% games system aka the Sony PlayStation when it finally did in the 90s.

As far as the theoretical Atari CD goes it would have also needed a completely different understanding and direction within the company in terms of what kind of games were produced, and to nearly entirely abandon the home PC division to focus on console gaming, as well as court important 3rd party developers to develop games exclusive to the system. Back in the real world this was just too much to ever occur.

>>6174434
>a stand-alone 100% games system aka the Sony PlayStation when it finally did in the 90s.
btw I am aware the Saturn technically came out first, but the Saturn's problems had little to do with the CD format and everything to do with everything else at Sega.

>>6174438
I just recalled the 3do was also out first. That would count for a 100% stand-alone game system, but it was hobbled by the multiple manufacturers gimmick and a lack of great games. The launch price was also far too high. Dropping it later was too late, the hype and good will didn't develop.

>>6167885
>8 track data was thought of, done, and released commercially.

Just barely

http://oldcomputers.net/compucolor-8001.html


"The floppy-tape storage device is comprised of one or two external 8-track, continuous-loop tape drives, running at 4800 Baud rate (about 600 characters per second), storing up to 1024 KB of data per tape. One program is stored per track, or up to eight programs total per cartridge.

These 8-track tape cartridges are identical, although with much less tape inside, to the consumer audiophile version commonly used to record and play music and other audio material in the 1970's.

Although novel, the external floppy-tape drive was short lived due to poor performance, with maybe 25 units sold, according to "Gene" from Intecolor. "

>>6174642
>this is all i could find on google so this is all there ever was
That's a scary thought process. Is it even a thought process?

>>6174485
>>6175451
Zoom

>>6172112
I imagine some type of rhythm game would have been very possible to do, hell there wouldn't have been anything to stop someone from making a guitar hero type controller that plugs into an atari port.

>>6175507
A rhythm game would have to use laserdisc due to the nature of cassette players having very small, but important differences in playback speed.

>>6175451
>>6175459
contribute to the discussion or don't post at all

>>6175785
Things are sure getting all zoom in here.

>>6175459
>>6175785
>all that projecting zoom
wew lad

>>6175878
Zoom zoom zoom

One little tweak that would have been very nice in retrospect would have been to increase the memory capabilities of the PlayStation. Most of the CPS2 arcade ports had to cut animation for the system, and the vs games lacked the true original arcade tagging feature.

It would have made the system a little more expensive at first but it would have made a pretty big difference down the road. Oh well, Sony won anyway.

>>6175897
cringe

>>6176149

>>6175848
>>6176316

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4kxFEXL2eU

>>6167292
Well, there IS the Laser Active. It's just a glorified FMV game machine with a massive price tag. Then again, there are arcade machines that used laserdisc technology.

>>6176316

>>6171003

Maybe the NES. But 70% of all Atari 2600 games came out in 1982 and 1983; its game development lifespan wasn't nearly as long as the lifespan of the console itself. As for the C64, Mayhem came out in 1993, right as all the big publishers were leaving the system and the scene was reverting to bedroom coders writing for disk mags. Lots of great games were cancelled and left unreleased. Hobbyists can only do so much to fill that void.

I think a game in the vein of The Binding of Isaac would have made and interesting arcade game.

>>6167292
I still think it's somewhat a shame we never got to see the full power of the Mega Drive, CD and 32x all together. We have a few comparisons to the Saturn, but nothing concrete to show off it full power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r3Cb4zr9Kc

Makes me wonder just what could've been accomplished if, for some reason, Sega made their best team work on a "Killer app" for it and they try and make some early 3D game on this thing. Probably would've had something that looks similar to Alone in the Dark but much shittier.

Unrelated, but I do also remember talks of System Shock 1 being ported to the Mega Drive but never got off the ground due to just how impossible it would've been, but imagine if that ACTUALLY had some development put into it.

>>6167827
It got a lot of DOS ports because that's where the legit Chinese devs were, but it wasn't PC related. It was basically a "best of" mix between Genesis and SNES hardware