/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6144381
>Why is thing.
>List reason why thing is.

I dunno

>>6144381
Yes.
The expansion is pretty nice and spooky though, probably my favorite TR expansion.

2 is also very flawed. It's hard to develop these games in a year and it's kind of a shame core were put through that.

>>6144426
>2 is also very flawed
It's not, the level design is nearly perfect and the difficulty is ok, and the feature "pick up three dragon or no bonus" is neat.

>>6144381
>You cant' even know what items you pick up (WHY)
Implementation of the object preview function was probably unsatisfactory in the ps1 version, leading the devs to disable it for all versions of 3. In the Area 51 demo, the 3d previews would clip through things. The beta from 1 month before release ended up just using static previews that didn't really look that good. The implementation didn't have as many issues in the PC version, but apparently they weren't the primary focus. Here's a couple videos for refresher.

PS1 Area 51 demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Maprv06StA

PC Jungle Demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3lknCrY-Tc

PS1 10-5-98 Beta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ82Iu7JNx0

the worst part was making a monkey carry a ganesha key in temple ruins (they never carried key items up to that point)
I got stuck for months at that level as a kid

>>6144470
One tries to steal the key at the end of the first level. If you didn't grab it fast enough, you'd have to kill it just to finish the level.

>>6144381
>You cant' even know what items you pick up (WHY)
What?

>>6144431
A lot of levels are man-made (cities/buildings/bases/ships) which was a deal breaker for me.

What really grabbed me about the original TR was the feeling of being alone in the remote wilderness/long forgotten ruins. I didn't care for taking a stroll through venice or swimming amid old wrecks.

>>6144431
TRII is filled with a lot of trial and error levels that force you to save scum. It's level design is a big step down from the first. I used to like it more than TR1 as a kid, but that shit ruined it for me in my last playthrough of it.

>>6144381
TITS

>>6144690
TR3 doesn't display the items you pick up because >>6144446

>>6144854
Ah, you mean those big icons in the corner? You still can see what you're picking up on the ground.

I remember some gaming magazines writing some time after the release, that tr3 was nowhere as good as they rated it at release, and they felt pressured by the overall hype at the time to give it gold awards and what not.

>>6144381
>Even Chronicles is better.
That's a fucking laugh. Chronicles puzzles are a fucking absolute joke. Level design is bog-standard and completely uninspired.

>The entire level design it's a fucking mess
It's actually not, you're just a retard who's too blind to see that TR3 had the clearest representation of landscapes yet in the series seeing as they upgraded the engine to allow finer terrain control and more atmospheric effects. The level design is, while punishing, top notch in regards to making the environments stand out and keeping your interest, making locations recognizable, and fun to explore, unlike in parts of Tomb Raider 1 and 2 (for example, The Cistern in Tomb Raider 1 and 40 Fathoms in Tomb Raider 2) where various areas can bleed together leading to getting lost.

>The difficulty is brutal with no reasons at all
It's the third game in the series and assumes you have played the previous 2 games to completion, thus, not for "no reason at all" besides, you can save anywhere (at least on PC), quit bitching and take advantage of that fact.

>You cant' even know what items you pick up (WHY)
Item preview was bugged, and it also would've wasted player time to show every single thing you pick up.

>Sure the artic levels are nice with The thing vibe, but that's it.
Wow. Just wow. You Antarctica, but not Coastal Village? You could say it's "just your opinion" but I'm sure you'd give absolutely stupid reasons for justifying it just like you did for why you liked Antarctica, seeing as The Thing mutants don't even fucking arrive until RX Tech Mines.

Get shit on scrub, and then git gud.

>>6144693
>A lot of levels are man-made
And you think the Egyptian and Greek/Roman ruins were just a fucking random event of nature, lmao? You spend more time alone in actual nature in TR3 than you do in the entirety of Tomb Raider 1.

>>6144696
>TRII is filled with a lot of trial and error levels that force you to save scum. It's level design is a big step down from the firs

No, it wasn't, since that was also present in TR1 you nostalgia-goggled dipshit.

Is there any Tomb Raider game worth playing? Retro or otherwise.

>>6144381
Oh look, that fag is still trying...

>>6144470
>(they never carried key items up to that point)
Have you tried playing the game, rather than sprouting bullshit? You are introduced to monkey stealing in the first level, right when you fucking drop down the slide.

>>6146863
Ironically, if you want your TR fix with just single title, then TR3 is the best choice for that. It's not the best of them, but it's the best representation of the series under Core as a whole.
Otherwise, play TR2-4 from retro. If you don't mind non-retro, then Underworld to see where this COULD be going, but ultimately didn't.

>>6146863
I loved TR1. It was difficult and different when i was a kid. I loved the soundtrack so much i used to pop the PS1 disc in my cd player and listen to it

>>6146943
>I also didn't play it since late 90s

>>6146863
Is this a shit post or are you baiting?

>worth playing, retro or other-wise
The originals, since they're classic master pieces. You can skip 5 if you want.

>>6144696
>TRII is filled with a lot of trial and error levels that force you to save scum. It's level design is a big step down from the first.
And TR1 doesn't have that, right? I mean, it's not like TR1 has a bunch of boulder traps where you need to step in certain places to activate the boulders which, if you don't know where they are, you won't have enough time to react and dodge them...Or puzzles involving specific time that requires trial and error in order to accomplish like with Thor's hammer, or with by complete random luck like in the lightning room. Or the fact that there's elements of chance and tricking new players with trap levers like at the end with the room-filling lava lever. Or the fire-pillar traps...or the invisible floating island where you get the uzis...or the spike-trap secret where you literally need to already know which corner of the room you can safely land on without insta-dying...or the numerous insta-death door-slicing traps. Yea dude, it's all TR2's fault, it's not like trial-and-error gameplay was built into the series from the getgo.

>>6146964
Not him but I played through the whole game a year or so ago for the first time and it still held up for the most part.

Had more fun with it than playing Tomb Raider 2013, Rise, or Shadow, that's for sure. What are you doing on /vr/ by the way if you're going to try and shitpost your way into sounding like you're cynical about retro games?

>>6146396
Regardless that shit had been completely vacant for who knows how long while Venice is a modern city that still has people living in it.

>>6144381
>The difficulty is brutal with no reasons at all
There were people who complained that TR2 was too easy.

>>6147530
>that still has people living in it

Okay. There's not many people "living" in deep-sea cruise-liner wrecks or in the mountains of Tibet. When we're introduced to Lara, she isn't even famous for being a Tomb Raider, she's on a magazine for finding bigfoot. She's a mercenary, it doesn't matter what environment she's in.

>>6147489
>Had more fun with it than playing Tomb Raider 2013, Rise, or Shadow, that's for sure
That's hardly an achievement, you know?
And the point about people talking high prises about TR1 has been, continues to be and will probably be forever the same: last time they've played it (or any TR, really), it was at best mid 00s. This leads to blinding thickness of nostalgia, since they barely remember the thing, not to mention playing one game after another, so the comparison is also lacking.
And most importantly, that phenomena is a thing since TLR came out, when it started to dot in the fandom extensively.
Have you played TLR? I'm not baiting, genuine question, that's important for the rest. See, when it came out, there were people who with full conviction considered TR1 superior in "every possible way" to TLR. And it just grew from there. The more years have passed, the more I'm awry of anyone fellating TR1. I marathon the whole franchise (sans nu-Raider) once per year. TR1 isn't getting any better because of it.

>>6148091
Okay, so your point is that TR1 is over-rated. I can agree with that. I would also add to that, that it seems all of the praise towards Tomb Raider 1 goes in a lot of arbitrary directions such as "IT WAS TOBY GARD'S MAGNUM OPUS!" even though he never actually designed a single level in the game, or that "IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT EXCLUSIVE TAKES PLACE IN ANCIENT RUINS AND THE LIVE!" even though there's an entire level dedicated to Natla's mines, and then the big one "THERE'S SO MUCH TRIAL AND ERROR GAMEPLAY IN THE SEQUELS" which, if you've played the first one, every single level has at the very least, 1 trial and error noob-trap. Literally every single one. Even Caves.

I think the real truth behind this is literally just a couple Tomb Raider autists (possibly one with a youtube channel who made a 50+ minute video showcasing the history of Tomb Raider), who are attempting to re-write history as it were, and convince people that it wasn't as I vividly remember it being, that everyone being not just hyped, but reverent towards Tomb Raider 2, like it was a master piece of gaming, with Tomb Raider 3 and 4 being more mixed but still highly regarded, and it wasn't until Chronicles came out that everyone literally went "yea, this cow's been milked dry." But instead trying to convince everyone that it was only Tomb Raider 1 that was highly regarded while all the others were popular but looked down upon, which is an abject lie, apparent to anyone alive and conscious at the time. Tomb Raider 1 was considered basic-bitch after Tomb Raider 2 came out. Literally 1 year after it's release, Tomb Raider 2 had made the original title appear out-dated. That's a feat for any sequel to pull off.

Don't get me wrong, TR1 is still great and fun, but also don't misinterpret me as a TR1 shitposter.

>>6148091
Okay, so your point is that TR1 is over-rated. I can agree with that. I would also add to that, that it seems all of the praise towards Tomb Raider 1 goes in a lot of arbitrary directions such as "IT WAS TOBY GARD'S MAGNUM OPUS!" even though he never actually designed a single level in the game, or that "IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT EXCLUSIVE TAKES PLACE IN ANCIENT RUINS AND THE LIKE!" even though there's an entire level dedicated to Natla's mines, and then the big one "THERE'S SO MUCH TRIAL AND ERROR GAMEPLAY IN THE SEQUELS" which, if you've played the first one, every single level has at the very least, 1 trial and error noob-trap. Literally every single one. Even Caves.

I think the real truth behind this is literally just a couple Tomb Raider autists (possibly one with a youtube channel who made a 50+ minute video showcasing the history of Tomb Raider), who are attempting to re-write history as it were, and convince people that it wasn't as I vividly remember it being, that everyone being not just hyped, but reverent towards Tomb Raider 2, like it was a master piece of gaming, with Tomb Raider 3 and 4 being more mixed but still highly regarded, and it wasn't until Chronicles came out that everyone literally went "yea, this cow's been milked dry." But instead trying to convince everyone that it was only Tomb Raider 1 that was highly regarded while all the others were popular but looked down upon, which is an abject lie, apparent to anyone alive and conscious at the time. Tomb Raider 1 was considered basic-bitch after Tomb Raider 2 came out. Literally 1 year after it's release, Tomb Raider 2 had made the original title appear out-dated. That's a feat for any sequel to pull off.

Don't get me wrong, TR1 is still great and fun, but also don't misinterpret me as a TR1 shitposter.

>>6144431
The bullet sponge human enemies in every fucking corridor of the game destroy the pacing and eerie ambience of the worlds. It's also an attempt to shoehorn action superhero gameplay that has no place in tomb raider onto what is already a brilliant puzzle and precision platform engine. 2 is great but very flawed.

>>6144693
Also everything this anon said is spot on

>>6148353
Right, because the bullet sponge enemies in 1 were just fine, even if one of them (Pierre) literally just vanishes into thin air when you do enough damage to him.

Yea, that's totally immersive and doesn't shatter the illusion at all. But a couple human guards that take a couple bullets to take down? Phew, that just ruins the whole game.

And the fact that she can kill humans with guns? She's basically a superhero. I mean, taking down Atlantean immortals that shoot explosives from biomechanical bodies and are half the size of house? That I can believe. But killing a few dozen guards armed with wrenches and pistols? That's just too fucking far.

Fuck off.

>>6144381
3 is arguably the best or at the very least, 2nd best.

What's the best way to play the series on Linux? I can get it to run just fine but a lot of the graphics updates are a pain to run on anything that isnt Windows.

>>6148437
Stop playing vidya on linux is a good start.

>>6148447
Too late for that.

>>6148347
Anon I hope you see this but you are 100% right. I never come to this gay ass board but I want to play a retro game and stumbled you this thread. I've never played a single tomb raider but grew up in the era. Tomb raider 2 was portrayed as bigger and better in all gaming magazines. Shit I remember there PSM guys going crazy about the fact that she had an animated ponytail. The reviews for 3 and 4 weren't as good I remember but still solid. Then everyone hated one of no the PS2 ones I think. Anyway you are fucking correct anon.

>>6148091
If there's one thing I wish TLR (or at least 3) did, it would be throw out the old texture rendering engine. It may be 2-3 games later, but the engine still looks like it's stuck with the Saturn's limitations. In other words, I'm sick of seeing sharp seams along the edges of every quad\triangle whether filtered or not.

>>6148347
Glad to know we are more or less on the same page here.
I'm just far less optimisitc about it being "just few autists". I wish that was true. I really do.

>>6148852
>If there's one thing I wish TLR (or at least 3) did, it would be throw out the old texture rendering engine
That requires having something that Core didn't have until AoD: time.
There were plans to upgrade the whole engine by the time they've finished TR2. Guess what Eidos told them when they said they need at least 6 months to just make new engine and then the standard 8 months to make a game with it. Guess what Eidos told them when they've repeated that plea once PS2 was announced.
So they kept using an engine written in late '94 all the way until '00.

>>6148852
>>6149394
And don't get me wrong, Core is also to blame here, because watching the millions pouring from the franchise, they didn't do two things:
1) Hire at least a single fucking lawyer to secure their share of profits properly
2) Instantly refocus on being "the TR studio", putting all the manpower they had into it
Because in the long run, this lead to being utterly fucked on profits and their share (like holy shit, was Heath-Smith blind or something?), while never having enough manpower for TR-of-this-year, not to mention working on engine for it. When they finally DID that, it was 2001 and they've simply hired 30 people out of the blue, bought new building to put them in, run out of money, ended up in shitty crunch time and then being done once AoD bombed.
Management never was their strong side.

>>6144431
Kill yourself you absolute fucking retard.

>>6148347
The original game is still better than 3.

>>6148367
>because the bullet sponge enemies in 1 were just fine, even if one of them (Pierre) literally just vanishes into thin air when you do enough damage to him.
Nigger that's 1 (UNO) human enemy in 3-4 levels. Are you fucking retarded?

>>6149414

>>6149421
>Subject is "bullet sponge enemies"
>If I mention less humans in TR1, I can ignore the point
>Brilliant!
Imagine being a retard who can't into eristics

>>6149453
Who is this prime tier cum dumpster?

>>6146396
I'm the anon you replied to. Haven't played 3 yet, my comment was specifically about TR 2.

>>6149461
>Being this new

>>6149421
WRONG, there's Larson, Pierre, Cowboy, Skateboard Kid, and big scary Indian guy.

>>6149453
I hope one day, after I have kids, one of them accidentally walks in on my fucking their mom. They spent 8-11 years having their sweet mother tend to them and act in such a loving manner, cooking them their favorite meals, cleaning their rooms up, and then in the middle of the night, they'll hear some moaning, the bed creaking, unable to get to sleep, and walk in on my slamming my hard cock into her over and over again. The motherly caring figure they loved throughout life so much will be seen getting a sexual walloping the likes of which they'll never see again, and it will be all because of me.

>>6150014

>>6150014
>>>/d/

>>6150014
based

>>6150014
Imagine being American.
Imagine being traumatised by people having sex.
Imagine having fetish about it.

>>6150121
Imagine being triggered by shitposting.

>>6150121
>>6150984
Don't bring your faggy pol-shit into this thread.

>>6150121
>>6150984
Don't bring your faggy pol-shit onto this board.

>>6150014
I walked in on my parents fucking once when I was like 3. My mother had an enormous bush and I was very confused by what I saw.

>>6150014

>>6144431
lmao TR2 level design sucked

>>6151545
>>6144693
>>6144696
>>6149407
Reddit.

>>6146397
There were a few trial and error sections in TR1 but nowhere near as many as TR2. I have no idea how I could possibly be blinded by nostalgia when I mentioned that I liked the 2nd more than the original as a kid, retard.

>>6147468
I never said anything about TR1 having no trial and error sections and it was all "TR2's fault". Quit crying like a woman.

>>6151553
>I got nothing to contribute here, so I will use the reddit boogeyman that frightens me every night before I go to bed.

Cry more tr1 cucks.

>>6151571
Triggered

>>6144381
It's darker than Doom 3. The console version gave me eye strain. Shame, because some of the environments and lightning effects are lovely.

>>6151569
>>6151682
tr1fags should be shot.

>>6144693
>A lot of levels are man-made (cities/buildings/bases/ships) which was a deal breaker for me.
Colosseum, cistern, mines, sphynx, pyramid, Midas' palace, etc
I think you meant modern settings, otherwise TRIII has more natural environments, even if the level design is absolute shit.

>>6146863
Tomb Raider 1 is the easiest to begin with, it's primitive for better and for worse. It's decently diverse in its setting.
Tomb Raider 2 is fun but is harder from the get-go.
Tomb Raider 3 is extremely difficult and unfair, but has the most varied set of levels. Play on PC for anytime saves.
Tomb Raider 4 is great, polished and also easy enough to begin with, but it's Ancient Egypt only, which I love but some might find tiresome after a while.
Haven't played Chronicles, but I hear it's good though more of the same.

I recommend playing the first level of TR1, TR2 and TR4 to get a taste for what you like.

>>6151732

Read >>6151682

>>6149954
Yeah, and 1, 3, 4 and 5 are in a single level.
Pierre is in a few but only a minute in each.
Fucking retard. Compare that to TR2 where almost every level is choke full of gun enemies.

>>6151732
TR2fags should be lynched

Wish I could get my xbox one controller to work on the steam version. Downloaded the retail fix and it just read the controller. Keyboard and mouse isnt an option. Guess i have to skip it. :/

TR1 is bland.

>>6151865
>but it's Ancient Egypt only
No it's not. The game also has modern Cairo and Ptolemaic Egypt levels.

>>6152848
Your taste is bland

>>6153394
cope tr1nigger.

>>6152403
>Fucking retard. Compare that to TR2 where almost every level is choke full of gun enemies.
Fucking dipshit retard commie mentally handicapped zoomer cunt, I'd rather take 30 enemies that take a couple seconds to kill, than several enemies that take 5+ shotgun shells and 200 uzi ammo to kill.

>>6152403
>Fucking retard. Compare that to TR2 where almost every level is choke full of gun enemies.
Fucking dipshit retard mentally handicapped zoomer cunt, I'd rather take 30 enemies that take a couple seconds to kill, than several enemies that take 5+ shotgun shells and 200 uzi ammo to kill.

>>6153040
>Ptolemaic Egypt

That's ancient egytp, genius.

>>6151545
No, you're a literal NPC dipshit if you think so. Level design in TR2 is what kept it alive, how else do you explain it going on to sell more than the original while half the game is basically "the water level"?

>>6152492
Use JoyToKey or xpadder.

I prefer JoyToKey because it's more simple.

>>6152406
>getting triggered because someone likes one of the entries in the same series you like

Imagine being this much of a retarded faggot.

>>6144381
don't mind me just posting best theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWsICxqgt5w

>>6155003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eykq-Tm4OOM
For me it's the snowmobile theme.

>>6155003
Really is the most memorable song in all of Tomb Raider 2. Has this dark intensity to it.

>>6151569
>There were a few trial and error sections in TR1

I can't imagine what the world looks like through your eyes where you delude everything into pure fantasy. Holy shit, if that isn't the most laughable statement ITT thus far. Tomb Raider was essentially Dark Souls before Dark Souls was Dark Souls.

>>6154645
Thanks anon!

ITT: Try-hards doing a shit-lifting competition about TR1 and 2.

Here is the situation:
TR1 aged like fucking milk. And it aged like that right the moment TR2 came out. That game simply was extensive beta test of engine capabilities, to the point the entire team come clear about it on many separate occassions, both alone and as a group.
SAID THAT, TR2 is still a trash game and still a lot of experimentation to see what's going on, how to make this all spin and how to master the proper game. That's by the way why it's so overflowing with combat and human enemies.
And that trend continued to TR3, which is less shit than either TR1 or 2, but is still a trial-and-error. Not to pass it, but in terms of design. It has some of the most memorable and some of the most horrible levels in Core run. But it's still improvement over 1 and 2.
And then TLR came out, they've finally nailed it... and by that point franchise fatigue was already in full swing, because who wants to play the same game once more. Becaue we all know how "identical" TR1-4 are, right?

tl;dr you are both fucked up and arguing about pointless shit, while OP is a faggot pushing retarded narrative since August '19. Fuck off already, cunt.

>>6157126
They are all good faggot.

>>6148347

I have a full stack of Official PLaystation Magazine in my parent's attic, like every issue.

TRIII and Chronicles were the only ones in the series not to get a 10/10 score.

>>6157379
I generally just don't care, last time I played TR1 it was 2009 and TR2 was in 2015. Can't stomach them anymore, since both have parts that really fucking irritate me. And I can't remember when was the last time I've played through London in TR3. Must have been somewhere in early 00s, probably before conscription.

>>6148437
There's an open source port for these games called Openlara, I think. Should run it on Linux rather well

Tomb Raider 1 controls like fucking trash. Everything else is forgivable, but the controld are horrific

>>6146397
>>6147468
Tr1 allowed quicksaving as opposed to the save Crystal's in 3. Not a problem for PC users but if you played on playstation 3 was a nightmare.

>>6146396
He probably meant the game has too many urban levels and not enough actual tomb raiding.

Which TR has the best underwater maps preferably with sharks?

>>6159223
TR2

>>6157126
>>6157434
You clearly do care, since you took the time to actually post an in-depth response as to what you think.

>That game simply was extensive beta test of engine capabilities, to the point the entire team come clear about it on many separate occassions, both alone and as a group.
Yea, but that doesn't mean it aged poorly. In fact, Mario 64 was a proof of concept, that doesn't mean that it wasn't a success you tard, in fact, the reason it still holds up is because as a proof of concept, it proved their concept worked, was fun, marketable, and could succeed being developed further, which is exactly what happened.

>And then TLR came out, they've finally nailed it...
LOL, wrong, they didn't "nail it" since they nailed it from TR1 and on, which is why they got rave reviews and sold gang-busters. They were adding more shit and experimenting with more and more stuff up to TR4 and even on to Chronicles. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>because who wants to play the same game once more. Because we all know how "identical" TR1-4 are, right?
Hope this is troll logic, since people not only bought the games in millions, but sales increased after 1 and stayed afloat up until the 4.

>you are both fucked up and arguing about pointless shit, while OP is a faggot pushing retarded narrative since August '19. Fuck off already, cunt.
The only narrative you're pushing here is the one you just posted. The fact that this triggers you so much means you're just in denial about the facts that the games are still great, hold up extraordinarily well, and that you're in the minority. You're trying to desperately cope so fucking hard right now it isn't even funny (though it kind of is).

>>6159702
>Still trying to bait people