/vr/ - Retro Games

It's not a real argument, some people just like shitposting because they hate /vr/ and want to prevent other people from enjoying discussion here.

>>6149829
Fuck shmups. FIRST.

>>6149829
Shmupfags are just mad because they're under the delusion that games with progression such as JRPGs killed off the arcade and "skill-based" games. They need to cope with the fact memo-heavy games are a retarded waste of time and were only a way for devs to steal your quarters. If you want skill go learn real life skills instead of these artificially difficult games.

>>6149829
We only say Pokemon is a JRPG because of the gameplay when in fact it's virtually in its own genre (and league).
Really clumsy attempt to trot Pokemon out as the rep.

I agree with the sentiment that there's no real point in starting cross-genre slap fights because it accomplishes nothing and there's always overlap. But there is something to be said of the inherent conflict between progression based home games and arcade games, the values for both are so completely different and opposed that you'll naturally have people who only strongly prefer one or the other.
>>6149835
Thing is that shmups fans don't really go to JRPG threads and bother the fans there outside of maybe the really one occasional shitpost that doesn't get followed up. Shmup threads are filled with anti-shmup shitposting nowadays though.

Although jrpgs started as the retarded baby of one sub-genre of wrpgs they eventually evolved into the proto-movie game. There is absolutely nothing redeemable about them as a genre and no pokemon is its own thing and not part of jrpgs anymore (and its shit now too).

>>6149829
People can't understand the difference between turn-based and action. All turn-based combat boils down to is statistics and number crunching, whereas in action combat you either have fixed traits (arcade games) or it's an action RPG hybrid where you can gain a few levels but you still need to dodge otherwise getting hit is punishing.

Some turn-based games attempted to bridge that gap (Super Mario RPG) but getting hit without blocking is so forgiving it almost feels like it doesn't matter if you mitigate attacks most of the time. Then you have interactive attacks that boil down to button mashing your ass off to maximize the damage output per MP cost and again, if you are too good in that you trivialize every other strategy.

Nobody said that you can't enjoy both action games and turn-based games, but I feel better if I learn a boss pattern enough to evade his attacks while damaging him (Contra, shmups etc) than if I fast forward to gain a couple of levels so I can kill Sephiroth in 3 turns. It feels more like I earned that shit.

>>6149860
That's untrue, turn based combat is simply about decision making without any of the physical challenge of action games. It can be deterministic and have no number crunching and be more like just dynamic problem solving, look at Into The Breach that game boils it down to the essentials. JRPG's are extremely simplistic, shallow, repetitive and dumbed down takes on turn based combat that mostly eschew positioning and tactics in favor of a simple loop of actions, they aren't all there is to turn based games.

>>6149860
>It feels more like I earned that shit.
What shmupfans don't realize is that everyone else who likes action games except shmups sees them as puzzle games where your skill isn't based so much on being good but how well you've learned the predetermined programming that plays out the same way everytime. Fighting games are an example superior for an actually dynamic and thus actually rewarding while still mechanically challenging experience.

>>6149882
Weird claim not based in reality. Most action game genres heavily reward memorization. Just about any single player one does it more than shmups even since thr patterns are simpler and execution easier. Many shmup players are either active fighting game players or ex fighting game players so not sure what the conflict is supposed to be either.

>>6149882
Even if it involves memorization you must still be able to execute it, a jrpg has no mechanical execution. FF6 is one of my favorite games as a kid ut honestly you can clear the whole game just using strong magicite learned skills and farming monsters for xp before bosses.

>>6149903
>farming monsters for xp before bosses
>grinding in one of the most braindead JRPGs ever made
Nigger retard.

>>6149897
>Most action game genres heavily reward memorization
That wasn't my point.
>Many shmup players are either active fighting game players or ex fighting game players
Says who?

>>6149903
Don't worry I think jarpigs are trash too. I'm talking about shmups which need more dressing down.

>>6149913
fuck I said as a kid

>>6149829
I prefer SHMUPS over JRPGs, but I was unaware there was some massive divide among the two fanbases. They are two radically different types of games, but I imagine you'd have to be autistic if you felt the need to shit on the genre you didn't prefer.

>>6149921
>Nearly dead genre that peaked in the 90s needs dressing down.
Okay champ

>>6149925
You're making a comparison between two genres, and you're misrepresenting one of them because you're a stupid person and you're bad at video games.

>>6149915
>That wasn't my point.
Then you've communicated your point very poorly
>Says who?
Anyone who knows the prominent players

>>6149829
I think a lot of people like shmups, and jrpgs, and in fact all sorts of games. When you meet a person who identifies as a jrpg fan they usually see it as an interest rather than a skill or a sport or something to be competitive about. Nobody who identifies as a jrpg fan is actually investing a sense of self-worth in their ability to play them, because they're just too darn easy. Some people care a lot about completing optional puzzles in jrpgs. I am regrettably one of those people.

These shooter fans though, they're worst than fighting game fans, they are incredibly serious about how their performance in a videogame expresses real value for them as an organism. No matter how much I love shooting games I do not discuss them with "fans of shooting games".

>>6149928
There is no massive divide. It's one or two extremely dedicated shitposting autists.

Yeah, both genres are enjoyable in their own ways.

>>6149936
Since when? All the top players are humble and always go on about how shit they are compared to muh japs. They do expect people to play the genre a good amount though, which is probably your actual problem with shmups fans.

If you play role playing shit, you are a nigger.

RPG is the white man's genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_Pj9aWwjSU

>>6149942
I think you know that I'm not talking about the top players and that everyone who isn't at the top is a salty bitch about every score they have.

>>6149962
That's also untrue since they tend to compare themselves not just to top players but Japanese top players and constantly undersell their skills. I think you're just butthurt about gatekeeping desu

>>6149958
>I don't like action games
Varg confirmed faggot, as if his cringey pagan larp wasn't enough.

>>6149968
I think gatekeeping is a sign of mental suggestibility and fundamentally do not identify with or trust those who seek security in external validation or discrimination rather than their individual moral determinism.

>>6149829
Is that Japanese Mike Matei?

>>6149979
That wasn't difficult to admit was it? It really depends on the extent, gatekeeping is the natural byproduct of communities organized hierarchically which will always happen with activities based around competition/skill. In its more mild forms it's extremely healthy and creates social pressures that encourage growth and improvement within that chosen activity while pushing away certain cancerous elements. Being against it on principle would be being against natural social hierarchies

>>6149992
More like Japanese guy who created Doom

>>6149998
Honestly any of that is only true in some sort of absurdist hypothetical reality where the people who are in favor of and organizing such hierarchy have no impulse to manipulate or take advantage of the situation for their own benefit to the exclusion of everyone they have influence over. In actual fact the only reason you're defending it is because you keep thinking "at least I can be one of those people" until the dick is right up your wife's son's ass.

>>6149928
It's a /vr/ thing you're too new to understand.

>>6150037
based, and also redpilled.
Enjoy video games, take it seriously if you feel like it. But don't stop having delusions about social hierarchies, you're still playing games.
I don't think you can get millionarie by playing any /vr/ game competitively anyway, probably the only actual millo superplayers are of shit like Starcraft, have fun multitasking against korean bots.

>>6149876
There is no physical challenge to any video game out there excepting a handful of rhythm games.

>>6150049
gonna play devil's advocate. That's like saying being a surgeon doesn't have any physical challenge because you aren't beating drums.
It's fair to be wanting to compete at games, and to enjoy the competitive aspect.
The problem isn't that, it's the /vg/ shitposters lol.

>>6149936
>I think a lot of people like shmups

>>6150049
Do you press buttons and pull the stick with your mind or have you achieved robotic levels of consistency at everything? Or do you switch planes of existence when playing video games?

>>6150037
There's no need to organize such hierarchy, it emerges naturally which is the point, and potentially cancerous individual attitudes don't matter in the grand scheme of things because they manifest themselves in broad attitudes, trends and pressures. On an individual basis what this also doesn't really result in anything particularly bad, you might get called a poser if you don't show enough commitment, big deal. If you value the activity then you should show commitment, if you don't then getting called a poser really shouldn't be a problem.

>>6150053
Moving your thumbs in accordance to visual stimulation is not similar to cutting out an appendix or repairing a torn ligament of some sort or altering the shape of a bone and then manipulating the limb to ensure ease of movement.
>>6150059
The key word is “challenge”. If you find operating a video game controller to be physically challenging, you are either disabled to a certain extent or so unbelievably out of shape that you could lose 50 pounds playing video games all day if you just cut out a few snack breaks. It is not a physical challenge nor does it require any serious amount of dexterity akin to painting or playing an instrument.

>>6150049
all videogames are some combination of rhythm game and puzzle game anon

>>6150116
Yes? And? So? What? There is no physical challenge whatsoever to the overwhelming majority of video games produced up to this point nor is any serious amount of manual dexterity required.

>>6149829
I swear people on this board want shmups to be popular strictly based on the fact of how easy they are to develop in comparison to something like an RPG which, even in the old days, meant making graphics for 100s of NPCs and monsters (even if many were palette swaps) and actually having to write a script.

>>6150119
Strictly because people don't want those kind of games.

>>6150129
LOL you're way too delusional. The only reason shmup "players" shitpost is because they're boring kids who spend more time shitposting than playing the games they claim to be good at.
Game developers aren't involved in this shit.

>>6150068
you're still making an impossible idealized model of the argument where the individuals involved stay dedicated to the virtuous motives of the group itself rather than degenerating into crab basket mentality where they drag down others who could surpass them or making their objective to gain social credit or controlling influence and abandoning the concepts of our mutual advancement, of passing skills onto others, of fostering camaraderie and benevolence.

>>6150138
Well, I think you're wrong because I've made several games. I don't mean professional game devs, I mean aspiring indie niggers.

>>6150115
>The key word is “challenge”
Yes that's why I am asking you, are you a machine who can perform any sequence of inputs flawlessly and consistently, with no mistakes and frame perfect precision? Of course not, in fact you'd struggle to do relatively simple shit with perfect consistency without hours of practice. Hand eye coordination, finger dexterity, timing, those are all considered physical skills/talents and something that tests those is a physical challenge. It's not like playing guitar is some kind of herculean task either, you move your fingers and hold down some strings at certain parts of the fret board, in theory anyone short of disabled people could do it, in practice it requires a lot of practice, commitment and calluses.

Why does this kinda discussion always attract low IQ mongs? It's fascinating.

>>6150136
That is irrelevant. The entire point I’m making is that playing the majority of video games is not physically challenging to refute a point made in the post I originally responded to stating shmups are the superior genre due in part to physical challenge. You can like whatever genre of game you want to like, and that’s fine, but don’t make up bullshit reasons that make no sense. Playing Lifeforce is just as physically demanding as playing Final Fantasy.

>>6150115
>does it require any serious amount of dexterity akin to painting or playing an instrument
its about exactly on that level and the scarcity of a certain level of skill has enough entertainment value for people to actually become professional gamers who are paid by corporations to play videogames to their own profit

so you are saying some seriously outdated dumb shit

>>6150147
Maybe I’m just better at games than you, if that’s your thought process. Maybe you should play more games and git gud instead of shitposting so much. I bet you can phone post pretty well with all the practice you get wasting time here.

>>6150154
Anyone who thinks “e-sports” is a valid response to this argument is an idiot.
>ad hominem I win!
No different than calling an opinion “outdated”. E-sports are glorified commercials for a product, that’s all they are. The participants are hand selected salespeople who are discarded when they harm the brand. A NFL player can beat his wife and be suspended for a few games, an “e-athlete” can beat his wife and be banned for life.

>>6150140
>abandoning the concepts of our mutual advancement, of passing skills onto others, of fostering camaraderie and benevolence.
Now this is talking about pure hypotheticals where gatekeeping has spiraled out of control, that's not reflective of any shmup community. Even the most overtly hostile players always give advice to newbies when prompted, others make guides, compile starter packs, make videos, give general advice, always advocate for effort and commitment over innate ability, and so on. So what exactly are you talking about? Concrete examples?

>>6150129
interesting theory, but I think it's just baitposting and people patting themselves on the back for being good at playing with children's toys

>>6150150
>Playing Lifeforce is just as physically demanding as playing Final Fantasy
Performing the basic moving and shooting is simple obviously, but you still need to remain focused and not make mistakes with the moving and shooting over the course of your run. A lot of it is memorization, but executing based on your memorization is still a physical demand. It's not strenuous, but it's still physical.

>>6150156
>lost an argument
>desperate deflection
Poor attempt. To remove the physical challenge from video games you wouldn't simply have to be better, you'd have to have the best execution in the world

>>6150150
the amount of calories a person consumes to provide the function of their brain and CNS during a task of particular concentration can actually be measured quantitatively and I put forward that fighting games and shooting games will inevitably be more physically demanding than rpgs simply by requiring that the player make many more decisions in a limited time frame and having them organize those minute reactions into a larger strategy against the ongoing challenge the game provides. On the other hand, there are people who get genuinely progress blocked in rpgs because they simply cannot generate enough concentration to master the rules of the puzzle.

the subject of physical capability in videogames is nuance to say the least, i think anyone who says they're not physically demanding is some sort of pokemon autist who thinks they're using his special stat instead of speed or power

playing God Hand is physically demanding

fuck you

>>6150171
idk anon i don't keep notes on this shit maybe there's one guy who's just really loud and autistic hanging out at the same message boards

>>6150150
>>6150154
There isn't a single shmup or RPG being played competitively, so also irrelevant.

>>6150150
>Playing Lifeforce is just as physically demanding as playing Final Fantasy.
Lol, so this is what it comes down to? Insecurity over the genre requiring more physical ability? That's obviously wrong, in Final Fantasy the inputs are incredibly simple and effortless to execute unless they mix up the genres with little minigames or something, and any kind of mistakes mean nothing since the game's deliberately slow paced and not ACTION-based. Lifeforce is a very easy shmup in the grand scheme of things but despite that, there's far more precision and room for error there. Even something as basic as the bouncing ball boss requires you to make some precise dodges with small mistakes meaning a lost life, or position yourself in a specific safe spot. For survival in any shmup, knowing what to do isn't a big problem you learn it fairly early, it's actually being to pull it off consistently that makes it tricky.

>>6150194
Shmups are competitive due to scoring, RPG's are made competitive despite their more casual nature through things like speedrunning. Video games are inherently competitive.

>>6150181
I didn’t lose anything. You raised a new point, I countered it. You have not proven anything.
>>6150185
If that is what we’re going to measure “physical challenge” by, jerking off is more physically challenging than playing R-Type.

>>6150194
people obviously speedrun rpgs and post highscores in stg like look at youtube for a fucking minute before you say shit

>>6150194
Pokemon is played competitively.

>>6150205
How did you counter it? I asked you if you had perfect consistency and precision, which is what would make controlling games easy, and you dodged it because we both know it's a load of shit.

>>6150197
>he's only played FF remakes
NES versions of FF I - III are much harder than Lifeforce, bro.

>>6150207
>look at my favorite e-celeb and be sure to smash those like and subscribe buttons because adpocalypse means he can’t afford another 1942 cabinet!
Youtubers are not experts.

>>6150204
>>6150207
>>6150208
>dude was talking about e-sports
>let me say even more irrelevant shit

>>6150205
>If that is what we’re going to measure “physical challenge” by, jerking off is more physically challenging than playing R-Type.
then you are a fucking noob and you need to git gud at whacking it

like holy shit are you even old enough to post on 4chan? I can bust a nut in 30 seconds, not even sweating, scrub

>>6150216
Maybe, but it's a very different type of challenge.

>>6150216
Do they require more precise inputs than Lifeforce and punish small mistakes with instant death and eventually game over forcing a restart? If not then they aren't harder than Lifeforce when it comes to the execution aspects, which is what's being discussed. Obviously games can be hard in other ways, but that's irrelevant.

>>6150221
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_esports_games#Pok%C3%A9mon

>>6150221
He was talking about competitive gaming, if he can't communicate that's on him

>>6150226
pokeurmom isnt an rpg

>>6150213
>be perfect or you’re wrong
Shoot em ups, as a genre, require more memorization than physical dexterity. There is no physical challenge to playing video games. None. Zero. You learn the controls, you learn the patterns, you 1cc the game. You learn the combos, you learn the counters, you beat scrubs at fighting games until someone who is just better at the fundamentals of that fighting game comes along and wrecks you.

It’s the same principle. Someone who has a stronger fundamental grasp of the game will beat your high score on a 1cc run. There’s always going to be someone better at a game than you.

>>6150223
You burn more calories in those 30 seconds busting a thin, watery nut than in an entire Lifeforce playthrough.

>>6150234
By physical challenge, I don't think anybody is trying to say that you'll burn a ton of calories and tire yourself out much playing games. But proper execution can require a lot of practice to develop muscle memory. You might know the combos in a fighting game, but you'll still need to have practiced them enough to execute them under pressure.

>>6150229
How do you figure?

>>6150234
You are just restating what you are saying without substantiating it. "Memorization" is what, just learning the stage layouts? Because if so then no, absolutely not since this can be done very quickly. If however when you say "memorization" youre using it as a buzzword that covers a shitton of aspects of play from learning stages to figuring out the mechanics to forming a strategy for the stages to then PRACTICING YOUR EXECUTION AND TIMING BUILDING MUSCLE MEMORY then you are correct, but that doesn't prove that games arent physical challenges it does the exact opposite. In fighting games you similarly practice your execution and get better at combos, timing and movement through, its all physical challenge. Not just that but it never truly becomes easy, even the best players drop combos and mess up their execution sometimes, in the case of shmups there are instances like Inbachi where even the most skilled and talented japanese players couldn't beat him in a full run, much less being able to do it consistently without relying on bombs and extra lives which might actually be humanly impossible.

>>6150242
See
>>6150185
A dude has said it already in this thread.

>>6150248
You didn’t say anything that could be even remotely described as “physically challenging”. Do you think Simon is physically challenging?

>>6150249
Ok, one guy talked about burning calories, but I don't think that's what most people are trying to get across.

>>6150251
Do you think the stuff he mentioned isn't challenging? Or is it just the term "physically challenging" that you disagree with?

>>6150251
I dont know, does it become fast enough so that messing up your inputs because of execution errors becomes a big threat? If so then yes, if not then its a mental challenge of memorization

>>6150252
I’m just responding to what people in this thread say. My point remains that video games, regardless of genre, are by and large not physically challenging. No one has proven otherwise and examples given are not characteristics of a physically challenging activity. Chess is not physically challenging. Chess boxing is physically challenging. Muscle memory in your thumbs is not physically challenging. It can be mentally taxing and require some intellectual dexterity, but it requires very little manual dexterity. Anyone can do it with very little practice except those with physical impairments.

>>6150262
This entire time I have disagreed with anon due to the “physical challenge” qualifier. You can like one genre of games more than another, that’s fine and more power to you, but don’t make up bullshit excuses to justify your opinion.

>>6149876
>Physical challenge of action games
That’s bullshit. Action games are no more physically challenging than any other genre of game (with exceptions)

>>6150267
You arent making any arguments, just empty statements. Its not physical challenge to you if youre using your arms hands and fingers without the rest of your body? Then why would instruments be physically challenging? Furthermore you can look up the term physical challenge and how it applies to games, or even look up the definition of "action game" on wiki. You are just being a moron anon simply because you for some reason dont like the language

>>6150283
>look at this wiki
Wiki editors are not experts and I don’t think I’m the one changing the meaning of words in this discussion, anon.

>>6150267
>Muscle memory in your thumbs is not physically challenging. It can be mentally taxing and require some intellectual dexterity, Anyone can do it with very little practice except those with physical impairments.
I'd agree that most things in games aren't beyond the physical capabilities of the average person, but I think you're underestimating how much effort is required to master some things. There are things in games that can take a whole ton of practice to execute consistently.

>>6150283
No. I don’t think operating a controller that has a D-pad and two buttons is akin to playing the saxophone. Or even the trumpet, which just has three. I’m making a joke, but I’m sure you understand what I’m getting at since you’re such a music expert as well as video game and fitness expert.

>>6150296
Yeah you arent, because you dont even have a definition in your mind to propose. Think about it for a second, is pressing buttons and moving the stick physical? Obviously. Can it require a lot of practice and/or innate ability to do well? Yes, undeniably. In those cases it's a physical challenge, because its physical and its challenging. Think about how you learn combos in a fighting game, the first step is memorizing a sequence of inputs, this is a mental challenge. The second step is training your hands to do what you want them to do through repetition, then get used to doing it under the pressure of real matches. That's physical challenge. All games have SOME physical challenge because you have to use inputs to interact with them, but in action games the physical challenge is the entire point and they are far more demanding of you. Natural ability plays a role too like with button mashing speed, and it can cause damage.

>>6150308
Effort and “physical challenge” are not the same. It can be mentally challenging and tiresome, but it is not a physical challenge.

>>6150323
Ok, so it's just a disagreement on the words we're using. It seems like we more or less agree otherwise. I'm not trying to attack other genres or anything, I love JRPGs and other turn-based games too.

>>6150319
You didn’t say anything in that post that is a physical challenge. You even brought up examples of mental pressure and called it a physical challenge. I’m astounded by your ability to perform such mental gymnastics to continue to think you’re correct.

>>6150325
Probably so. But posts like >>6150319 contribute to harp on these things which, to me, sound mentally taxing but not physically challenging while proclaiming proudly that they are a physical challenge. Maybe my background in competitive sports (without an “e”) is influencing my opinion, but I have not been convinced of any physical challenge here.

>>6150326
I spelled things out in very clear easy to understand terms, if you still dont get it then youre facing a lifelong mental challenge. And pressure isnt a physical challenge but it heavily affects execution so its related. Its a bit more complicated than a simple dichotomy but the 2 broad categories still have meaning.

>>6150314
But thats the sax which works your lungs, how about something like a keyboard? You use your hands to play it, and if you get one of those 3 octave keyboards the amount of movement will be minimal too. Anyone can play a keyboard easily too, but it gets very difficult when you try to play faster/more complex music well.

>>6150335
This entire conversation started because anon used physical challenge as one of the reasons anon believed this genre of video game is superior to others. That’s what we are discussing. I think you’ve lost track of the conversation.

>>6150338
A keyboard can be hell for people with short fingers. Playing piano is more physically draining for people with the wrong shape of hand than those who have “piano hands” or “piano fingers”. I would say that playing a piano can be more physically demanding for some based on that. It is different from playing Lifeforce because a NES has two buttons and a d-pad.

>>6150340
That doesnt matter because you are attacking the idea of physical challenge, not the idea that physical challenge is inherently better than mental challenge. Both are different flavors of challenge and neither is intrinsically better than the other.

>>6150350
There are a lot of smaller keyboards you can get if you have short fingers. But what are you saying here, that something is only a physical challenge if biology or talent play a significant part in how hard or easy it is? Some people are naturally more clumsy at controlling games than others too and have a harder time building consistency, some people have wrist problems, some people mash faster some slower. This is just dense.

>>6149829
Wait so it's just not 2 autists (or possibly a single schizophreniac)? People are actually commiting to a toxic brainlet genre war?

>>6150362
Not really, it's mostly just shitposting. There's maybe a two or three people at most that are serious about it.

>>6150357
Mental challenge is irrelevant to this conversation because, as I said, anon cited “physical challenge” exactly as one of the reasons this genre of games is superior to others. I take exception to that because I believe video games are not physically challenging whatsoever barring few. The post in question is >>6149876 that brings up “physical challenge”. There is no physical challenge whatsoever to video games. It doesn’t exist. No one in this thread has proven otherwise.

>>6150361
Yes. God did not create men equal, Samuel Colt did. You are not going to be better at basketball than someone a foot taller than you starting out. For every Mugsy there are dozens of Hakeems. Physical attributes do play a part in how easy or challenging something is.

>>6150330
are there players of any competitive games who could beat you in a match? if so, because videogames pose no physical challenge to you, does that mean that you are, in fact, mentally challenged? or have you been posing as such since the start of this thread?

>>6150457
You’ve never played anything competitive in your life. If you have, you’d know that sometimes it’s not your opponent that beats you.

>>6150363
God, I hope its just mere shitposting and dumb banter. The idea of more psychopaths taking this seriously makes me feel ill.

>>6150470
are you saying that you have a flaw that exists entirely in your mind which causes you to fail? I reiterate what I said about you being mentally challenged but I'm more convinced it's not intentional :^)

>>6150474
I think you’ve lost it. You’re reduced to babbling nonsense.

>>6150473
Retardo is the one who started the anti-JRPG crusade on /vr/, you can talk to him on the /vr/ shmups IRC.

>>6150116

>>6150497
>/vr/ shmups IRC
Why the fuck is this a thing? Let me guess, it's a bunch of redditors who feel more comfortable namefagging.

>>6150119
>There is no physical challenge whatsoever to the overwhelming majority of video games produced up to this point nor is any serious amount of manual dexterity required.
A harsh, unsavory truth.

>>6150474
lmao based, but pointless the guy is too thick to get the point

>>6150129
>how easy they are to develop in comparison to something like an RPG
Game balance is even more important in a single-player bullet hell than a jrpg so I doubt it.

There's a difference between fans of jrpgs, and jarpigs

>>6150520
I doubt they know how to set up an IRC client, he probably meant discord.

>shmupg claims to be le epic boomers
>makes irc chat and discord to gossip like women
I'm the only one on there who actually played

>>6150147
>in practice it requires a lot of practice, commitment and calluses.
a.k.a. memorization, which defeats the purpose as it's barely even a game at that point

>>6150558
I was really disappointed where I tried to browse the /vg/ general.
It was nothing but really low IQ posting, full of gossip about people nobody knows. It was 100% shitpost.

>>6150171
>Concrete examples?
"Primary" Touhoufags.
Understandable if you don't want another Fate situation, but what they use this is just pure gold.
They don't fucking give you any tips or atleast some good advice instead of just a simple "git gud", "play the game" or "get out secondary" like a redditor.
While the people who actually played the games can share some info to how to get good, even some neet player can share some advice.

>>6150221
I agree with this. Speedrunning isn't the same thing as "playing competitively" in the e-sports sense and Pokemon is not really an RPG.

I wouldn't say F-Zero time scoring is competitive in the sense I'd say if there were players actually facing off in a game to get to the finish line first.

>>6150546
lol

>>6150565
Any namefagging platform that claims to be an offshoot of a 4chan board is 100% guaranteed to be a bunch of cancerous fucks from plebbit/discord/retardera. They have a deep-seated to namefag at any cost.

>>6150565
the lesson to learn here is that /vg/ and generals in general are cancer

>>6150574
deep-seated *need

>>6150216
artificial difficulty doesn't count

>>6150580
Thanks, mom.

>>6150583
it was obvious, as sometimes happen to me, you thought you typed it because of alliteration

>>6150587
Joke's on you, I was going to type 'compulsion', but I forgot because I'm drunk.

>>6149829
How I'd fix SHMUPs, specifically, bullet hells (as those are actually interesting to me while sidescrollers and rail-shooters are not)
>Ammunition---no more incessant shooting with abandon
>Random *and* responsive AI behavior in enemies; no more set, pre-determined flight patterns
>Shooting patterns are also randomized, or at the very least, what pre-made pattern will come out at what time will be "randomized" or otherwise made difficult to predict
>More player firing options by default---in other words, more weapon variety as in FPS---the typical straightfoward stream of bullets is heavily reduced in power but given lots of ammunition, like an automatic assault rifle; powerful, low ammunition bursts of short-ranged bullets with large spread, like a shotgun; high precision (meaning no spread and small bullet size) and damage, long rage bullets, like a rifle; extremely high damage and low ammunition, explosive bullets with large spread upon impact and large bullet size, like a rocket or grenade launcher; and then a variety of trick / special weapons depending on the setting of the shmup that spice up gameplay, like boomerang ammunition that shoots in an arc on the screen and can be recaught instead of being spent; etc.
>meaningful "unit" types, i.e. ships or whatever that have their own unique abilities and properties or loadouts or whatever actually distinguishes them in such a way as to make the gameplay experience feel different and more personalized
>high production value and increased attention to detail on everything from the graphics (whether sprites or models), sound effects, music, user interface, while still maintaining the genre's reputation for aesthetics
that's where to begin to make them playable for the general, non-autistic public
multiplayer and expanding the very paradigm of the shump / bullet hell will have to come later, I'm afraid, after these pre-reqs are implemented

>>6150594
>I'm drunk
>I was going to type 'compulsion'
you're right, that is a funny joke

>>6150618
I've been posting with otherwise perfect grammar, yes?

>>6149829
>please stop attacking us poor JRPG fans!!
No. Your cancer must be purged from /vr/.

>>6150615
why there are dicks inside the brain car?

>>6150279
>(with exceptions)
I certainly can't think of any exception

>>6150637
so the ladies have somewhere to sit

>>6150634
The Jarpig fears the skill-demanding videogame.

was this guy banned or something? why?
>>6150497

How many years until knights in the nightmare is retro?

>>6150659
a mod is butthurt over the guy he named, if he suspects you of being him he'll ban you for 30 days + wipe all your posts by IP

here's the uncensored version of this thread:
>>/vr/thread/S6149829

>>6150659
>>6150668
The type of 'person' that would want to be a mod/janny is the same type of person who posts on reddit and has leftist leanings. They're all namefagging censor-happy faggots.

>>6150520
It was mostly a bunker that /shmupg/ would go to whenever trannyjanny would go on a mass banning spree.
Pretty much all of those guys have moved to cee's discord server now though since recent shmup generals end up getting shitposted to death by seething manginas who hate them.

>>6150615
>how I'd improve your white wife
>get her hooked on heroin and pimp her out to mexican cartel thugs and then take a shit on her grave
Thanks for the bright ideas but we're gonna pass on all that nonsense.

>>6150668
>>6150681
I see. Thank you for clearing that up.

>implying shmupdrones are human
Lmfao
DUDE i repeatedly played the same six levels of this quarter munching arcade game until i literally memorized the entire thing and can now do it blindfolded! Just don't ask me to play a game i haven't memorized yet because skill doesn't transfer between titles when the gameplay is this memorization-oriented, so i won't get beyond stage 3 and itll be REALLY embarrassing!

>>6150681
>post like an utter retard
>post gets deleted because you're being an utter fucking retard
>FUCKING LEFTLEANING CENSORSHIP LOVING TRANNY JANNIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
based schizoposter

>>6149829
I played more JRPGs as a kid, and schmups as I grew up. Never lost the appreciation for a good adventure though.

>>6150719
>mods would NEVER abuse their power!
Bootlick harder, nigger.

>>6150730
Mods deleting tardposting isn't an abuse of power, tard-kun

>>6150634
But according to the /vg/ guys, it's the JRPG fans who are hostile and shitpost their threads.
Honestly it all looks like 2 or 3 schizos LARPing as both sides, I can't believe anyone do this seriously.

>>6150714
>DUDE i'm making fun of players who enjoy a challenge!!!
WOW AHAHAHA YASSSSS QUEEN REDDIT WE DID IT


>>6150728
I played lots of rpgs as a kid, now they all feel very "samey"..."I've done that before" and is the feeling I get. Plus the optimal choices are usually super obvious, the item management is very forgiving, the save states are abundant, so the challenge is minimal and there's no risk involved.
The other issue I have is characters. As a kid I thought guys like Magus and Frog were super cool and bad-ass. But now I'm older and I can't get invested in anime characters as much...

>>6150615
How about you just get good at bullet hells so you can enjoy what their trying to offer, instead of turning them into mutilated, top-down FPS-style games.

>>6150714
You just described every 8 bit game ever and every 16 bit game that's not an RPG. Git gud son

>>6150756
there's proof of a literal discord of shmuptards that make a concentrated effort to shit up this board as much as possible.

>>6150762
>dude JRPGs are too samey
>hmm, time to pick a new shmup... will i pick one where i fly up? or maybe sideways? so many choices! and do i want the ship with homing shots, or the ship with a stronger, straight shot?
lmfao

>>6150772
rpgs need variety and innovation since they are more story driven "adventures", shmups not so much since they are more about execution and blowing shit up.

shmups are a memory heavy genre where difficulty and big skill ceilings promote tons of replayability. That's why many shmup players only focus on a few shmups to get good at or just one.
But in the jrpg communities people finish a game once or twice, then hop to another game, because they need variety since the replayability is quite low for each game, and the difficulty & skill ceiling even lower.

>>6150772
>Progear is the same as Daifukkatsu
Are you retarded?

>>6150795
no, they're clearly different. after all in daifukkatsu you fly vertically, whereas in progear you fly horizontally.

>>6150806
Oh you ARE retarded. If you don't know anything about the genre why not just ask? Nobody clowns on you for asking legitimate questions

>>6150807
i don't know what you're confused about here anon.

>>6150812
You seem to be confused. Just ask questions if you're new
Anyone who seriously thinks shmups are the same knows nothing
Progear is completely different to Gradius which is completely different to Twinbee

>>6150814
i'd say it's fair to separate twinbee and gradius out from other horis just because they have a bigger emphasis on choosing your powerups, but at the end of the day it doesn't make much of a difference when the gameplay still boils down to "memorize this shit until you can beat the game on one credit"

>game boils down to pressing buttons at the right time
>that's why everyone on earth is a top player
Oh that makes perfect sense

>>6150820
not everyone has the patience to watch and memorize playthrough videos and then copy them for 100 hours, anon

>>6150821
Alright here's your last (You)
Hopefully when you get older than 15 you'll understand how idiotic you were

>>6150823
im 28 and used to like shmups but i think the fans of the genre could be a little cooler if they actually played the games they claim to like instead of spending their time on discord and shitting up /vr/

>i'm 18
No need to lie online anon. Just spend some time or even make threads asking questions about shmups, stop embarassing yourself
I for instance know nothing about pinball, yet if I were to say "How come you retards play this? Just literally hit the ball with paddles" I'd rightfully get laughed at

>>6150818
Why yes, I do enjoy fast gameplay that requires high memorization and high execution to beat on one credit.
How could you tell?

>>6150827
>used to like shmups
what shmups did you clear or score in? best results?

>>6150827
>used to like shmups
more lies

Why yes I do love the arcade, what gave it away?

If you don't enjoy both you're a boomer and a subhuman, this board would be better if you all left immediately

>>6150892
>gay furry's opinion
irrelevant

>>6150546
>There's a difference between fans of jrpgs, and jarpigs
Last rpg I played was wizardry V on ps1, got to second or third floor. It's fun, but action games take most of my gaming time now.

>this thread is just bait for so the mod can rangeban all the shump discord trannies

based

>>6150892
>thinking we should listen to him after he posts some gay furry shit from a non-retro game
Please kill yourself, for the betterment of the board.

>>6149829

>all these jarpigs getting filtered by based shmups

What exactly is wrong with Hardcore Gaming 101?

>>6151032
It's run by tranny liberal pedophile jewish marxist satanic reptilians.

>>6151040
>It's run by
Can you finish this post? I ignored all the meaningless nonsense words

>>6151041
It's run by bad people with worse intentions and it shows in their reviews.
"This game suffers from typical 90s misogyny/stereotypes/slurs/toxic-masculinity.... etc..."

"thankfully the western version was censored and doesn't have the japanese insensitivities to slavery and..."

Paraphrasing, but you get the gist.

>>6151046
I've read a lot of articles on the site and nothing like that appears. The worst they've said was Deathsmiles lolis can be off-putting to some people
But I guess facts are for cucks

>>6150838
>>6150840
i mean, i'll come right out and admit i never 1cc'd any and thus never played any for score. i started with touhou and then got into cave and other arcade games, my favorites of which were dodonpachi, esprade, and guwange. it's not even that i no longer enjoy playing them, i'm just not as into them as i was back then.

>>6151048
Maybe we've read different reviews because I've seen that a few times and it was goofy as fuck.

>>6151056
The only thing I can think of is that they changed writers between when you read it and when I did
>>6151054
>complains about genre
>bad at it
every fucking time

>>6151054
>starting with cave shmups
> i'll come right out and admit i never 1cc'd any
then you never really experienced the incomparable pleasure.

>it's not even that i no longer enjoy playing them, i'm just not as into them as i was back then.
go back and finish what you started. but maybe something easier than cave because their final stages/bosses can be very hard for new players.

I started playing a shmup, explored no depth to it, quit after 5 minutes and somehow I didn't enjoy it
What a garbage genre

>>6151058
much better than putting on airs about "HURR DURR IM SO FUCKING GOOD" and then disappearing from the thread the minute anyone asks you to share footage or even a screenshot of your scores or time spent in MAME, retard. don't even try to pretend that isn't the gist of every thread about the genre, either.

>>6151060
>go back and finish what you started
i don't really feel a need to go back and shoot for 1cc. just kind of exhausting to replay the same handful of levels for 30 hours.

>don't even try to pretend that isn't the gist of every thread
But that's factually incorrect. Every shmup thread is asking what you're playing and there's always a few newbies that come in and everyone helps them

>>6151065
>asking what you're playing
with no response

>and there's always a few newbies that come in and everyone helps them
and they get made fun of and then never come back

>>6151087
????? People constantly reply with what they're playing, and they suggest beginner games, usually Batsugun, to newbies

>>6151089
>Batsugun
Pure survival is good for new players.
Optimal scoring is fuck hard.

>>6150762
>How about you just get good at bullet hells so you can enjoy what their trying to offer, instead of turning them into mutilated, top-down FPS-style games.
because what they are is inferior, for no reason
also
>top-down FPS

>>6151238
>>top-down FPS
why did you ignore the word 'style'?

>inferior
apples and oranges

>>6149829
How about...

A turn based rpg where the battles play like a shmup?

>>6151695
>it's a hybrid
yes a bad shooter and a bad rpg

fact

>>6151860
On the other hand, you don't see the supposed "Jrpg guys" make memes like this.

>>6151860
>low IQ
>prefers a genre which requires no reading

>>6151869
don't need to. the shump community is already a joke by themselves. on 4chan specially they are the worst of the worst because they are refugees from other shmup forums who get banned for being insufferable... only to get banned here as well and get banished to discord with their faggotry.

>>6151926
forget your paranoia meds?

>>6150842
>Why yes I do love the arcade, what gave it away?
that strong jaw line

>>6150806
>dfk and progear
another big difference is progear doesn't look like a cluttered sparkly visual eye rape mess, until the very last stage.

Imagine basing your personality on a video game genre. Some people never get past adolescence.

>>6152287
Imagine unironically hating skill-based games and those who play them like /vr/'s jarpig residents.

>>6150116
now this is a galaxy brain take

>>6152305
>raid and shitpost jrpg threads
>expect to not get any backlash

>>6152305
Way to get triggered, I was more talking about the JRPG faggots who shit on shmups, but you shmup autists also have your own share of autism, especially because you spend more time complaining about muh jarpigs than actually playing games.

>>6152352
>I was more talking about the JRPG faggots who shit on shmups
And I was extrapolating on your point.

>especially because you spend more time complaining about muh jarpigs than actually playing games.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

Anyway, I just find it funny that a board for retro games gets spammed with RPGs, when in actual retro times they were niche as fuck and arcade games were the hottest thing around.

>>6152382
shumps were only relevant in the 80s though, due to lack of better options. if you grew up in the 80s and still shitpost on 4chan something went terribly wrong with your life.

>>6152382
>Anyway, I just find it funny that a board for retro games gets spammed with RPGs, when in actual retro times they were niche as fuck and arcade games were the hottest thing around.
You're not wrong but people didn't go apeshit over shmups either, save for the late 70s and early 80s.

>>6151901
heh heh heh heh heh heh

I only play easy cute 'em ups and super entry level stuff like Radiant Silvergun/Ikaruga
Can I still be friends with you shumpbros?
t. JRPG enthusiast

>>6153152
Thing is though most shmup players are also JRPG players, no one literally plays one genre. It's just JRPG fans come into shmup threads talking about how shit they are, but then certain retardoed shmup posters have a hate crusade against JRPGs

Play arena shooters or fighting games, subhumans.

>>6153156
I try to avoid shump threads because from what I've seen of shump posters bleeding into other threads many are elitists that circlejerk over their difficult clears while shaming games they don't like or view as too easy.

>>6153169
Generally shmup threads are good now because the shmupg trannies fucked off to their gossip discord

>>6153172
It's like how we can have actual belt scroller threads now that cee stopped posting

>>6153160
Single player games are superior, no contest.
No lag, no disconnects, no zoomers making excuses and disconnecting matches before you get your points. No constantly changing meta and imba issues, no gay patches and updates that nerf characters haphazardly. No mexicans, no russians, no stupid chinese players, no vietnamese trolls. God playing online is a dumpster heap of trash.

Plus I prefer old fighting games and it's hard to find good matches, either the guy is a scrub loser or he's 45 year old boomer who never stopped playing the game since it came out.

Not sure who said this, but he's 100% correct.

I just wanna get in my ship, dodge bullets and blow shit up.

>>6153152
depends, wot's your silvergun/ika scores

>>6153240
>ooga booga me like overly simplistic repetitive games

shumps are the dinosaur of videogame genres. they barely changed anything since atari days. how they managed to survive to this day and age is beyond me.

>>6153232
What’s the model on little screen in the middle? I like it a lot

>>6153393
>complaining about a genre staying true to its retro roots
>on /vr/
/v/ pls

>>6153393
>they barely changed anything since atari days.
Yeah, Mars Matrix and River Raid are more or less the same thing.

FUCK shumps.

>>6153393
>shumps are the dinosaur of videogame genres. they barely changed anything since atari days. how they managed to survive to this day and age is beyond me.
Based.

>how they managed to survive to this day and age is beyond me.
for sure you are mad.

>>6153396
Panasonic TC-20LA2D CRT TV

>>6153240
>He doesn't like both landscape traversal and shmups