/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6146979
It died with X

>>6146979
It didn't really go downhill after VI, but it did kind of go in a new direction which ultimately led to its decline.

Kind of how Resident Evil 4 was a step up in objective quality from the preceding games, but had such a shift in gameplay that it took the series in a direction that was no longer compatible with the original fanbase. Similarly, Final Fantasy still had great games up until IX (I thought X was boring but if you like it imagine I said X) but after that it kind of started to sacrifice gameplay for cinematic experiences, with the worst culprit I've played being XIII which is about as much of a 'game' as Heavy Rain or Beyond Two Souls, ie a corridor sim.

>>6146979
The nu-art style started with VIII and the series died with X.

FFVIII when they decided that being super serious was the way forward. The awful CGI film (spirits within) followed suit and that really ruined the series and the company. FFIX wasn't even meant to be part of the mainline series at all.

>>6147025
>FFIX wasn't even meant to be part of the mainline series at all.

What makes you think that? None of the games are connected till they started with the shitty sequels with X-2.

>>6146979
Never, it was shit from the get-go.

>>6147029
IIRC it was intented to be a side game ala tactics or mystic quest, but mid-development they decided to designate the game as part of the mainline series to get more sales

>>6146979
Final Fantasy IV is when they ditched experimenting with interesting classes and leveling systems that let you strategize how to tackle the game, instead giving you a stock team that's perfectly tuned for each scenario you're in.

They diddle with other systems a little in later games but that set the tone for how they would handle the series and was the beginning of the end.

>>6147016
That was the beginning of Nomura's obsession with belt-wearing fujobait, but the games themselves have been compromised since IV, as >>6147134 says. V was a rare return to form, and that's why it was the last 'good' one.

>>6146998
>RE4
>objectively better than REmake or OG RE2

Holy fuck, look at the plebbit on this retard.

>>6147173
From a purely technical and cinematic point of view yes obviously and you're retarded for denying it.

From an atmosphere and survival horror point of view no of course not, that's the different direction I meant, smoothbrain.

>>6147104
AFAIK, it was still in the planning stages when it was considdered for being a side game, but was called FFIX through all of the actual development.

Similarly to how Strange Journey was originally going to be SMTIV, Peace Walker's original working title was MGS5, RE3 was considered a side game in pre planning stages and simikarky; Cide Veronica was originalky planned to be RE3, but changed before actual development began.

Other examples are the original idea for RE0 becomming Onimusha and DMC being actively developed as an RE game for a while.

It happens and it means nothing.

>>6147352
Wow.

RE4's secenamatic elements were hillariously bad compared to REmake. And up until at least 2012 people were still saying REmake looked impressive. When did the first remaster of RE4 come out? Around that same time, I think.meaning people ckesrly didn't feel that way about RE4.

RE4 had fun gameplay and was full 3D. That's it. That's not objecrively better than jack shit you mongoloid.

RPGs aren't fun in a traditional sense, and tons of them are better tha RE4.

Now go back to R/ResidentEvil like a good little pleb.

>>6147369
>everything i don't agree with is reddit!!!!!

Fuck off retard.

After 9, fuck FF 10 &10-2, FF12 kino tho

>>6146979
after IX
VIfag's will tell you after FFVI, unaware the game was the blueprint of post SNES FF

>>6146979
FFX was the last amazing FF game. They really lost their way with 11 and the whole MMO shit. 12 was mediocre at best, 13 was garbage, 14 was another stupid MMO, and 15 was very meh. 10 was the last FF that had that special feel that all the previous FFs had. I guess 10 would be my answer.

>>6146979
it got miserable with polygons, and died wirh X

>>6146979
I think the big problem is that a lot of the newer ones think they can't be as straight forward as they used to. They feel like they have to over complicate things with poorly thought out plot twists like 8's amnesia or whatever the hell 10's deal was about the dream of the faith or whatever and it just gets in the way of what should be a pretty simple adventure story that you can use as a framework for character stuff. They also really love their cinematic set pieces and seem to write those before the story to insert them into, looking at you FFX's romance.

psp era FF was great, but ps2 and ps3 was a steady decline. I think it was the MMO that changed the franchise.

>>6147956
I think it was just Nomura's chuuni ass

>>6146979
Went downhill once Sakaguchi left the franchise after X, the final hurrah was XII where most of the old-guard Sakaguchi had put in place were still around to complete it before leaving or being promoted to managerial obscurity.

>>6147838
lol legitimately awful take. One of the rare ones I see on this site that is completely assbackwards on every single level.

>>6146984
X was a good game, but it also went off the rails and outright abandoned a lot of series tropes (It didn't play the FF anthem at any point in the game, for example) so yeah, I agree with this guy.

>>6148021
You're a retarded faggot that can't into music theory. FF Prelude plays literally at the very beginning when you're talking with the fans. It didn't go off the rails at all, in fact the story is extremely simple to follow compared to FF7.

>>6146979
I’m sorry, but fuck storylines and “stylized” (I hate this terminology) predefined characters. I want to assemble my own party and just kill shit and get loot. Utterly ridiculous how they made the Onion Kids into a bunch of faggots in the FF3 remake, or that might be my favorite game in the series.

>>6148030
I'm not talking about the arpeggio, shit-for-brains. I mean the actual final fantasy anthem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF_VFEfeI9Q

>>6148021
>(It didn't play the FF anthem at any point in the game, for example)
Go play the opening until you name Tidus. The song plays while you're naming Tidus.

>>6147968
He's a huge faggot and FFXV is the gayest thing I've ever seen in my life.

Final Fantasy is dead because it was hijacked by that man.

>>6148219
>the character designer is the reason the series went to shit
You're offensively stupid.

FFX was kind of the end. The story is great, but the emphasis on so much unskippable dialogue over gameplay, combined with the tedious switching out every battle makes it a chore to play. At least it has the job system.

The only Final Fantasy game even worth looking at after X is FF3 3d remake, which is barely a new game.

Series is dead as can be, but at least we get Final Fantasy-likes with games like Bravely Default.

>>6148253
Literally nothing you just mentioned is retro.
>>>/v/ you cancerous teenager

>>6148253
I still enjoy the newer games to an extent, but yeah, FFX was the turning point.

>>6148285
Fuck off, cancer.

>>6148292

>>6147705
IX sucked

>>6147705
No it isn't. FF6 is mostly battles, characters have distinct jobs, and is fantastically paced. It more like other classic Final Fantasy games than not. It has one or two factors, such as the magic system, that were later used.

>>6148219
Final Fantasy XV has the only pre-made party I ever liked in-full. Helps me realize adding women is a mistake.

>>6148059
>I want to assemble my own party
this
and I want meaningful character customization and abilities

>>6148218
see
>>6148087

>>6148535
>I HAVE A MUSIC DEGREE AND I'M GOING TO MAKE IT SEEM LESS WORTHLESS BY USING WORTHLESS MUSIC THEORY TERMS TO SOUND SMART
I had a friend like you. He's a drug addict vegan now.

>>6148030

It went off the rails. It started with Tidus' mysterious world-jumping adventure, which was fine, and Yuna's pilgrimage quest, which was cool. It ended with a pile of convoluted nonsense about an evil church and an ancient sorcerer's legacy and Seymour's wedding plans and Tidus' family being a whale and half of what we knew actually being imaginary and this and that and the other. At the beginning it has a heart and it has characters whose personal stories matter, and at the end it's just a lot of complicated stuff in a pile. Wakka's conservatism is forgotten; Kimahri's people's genocide is forgotten; Yuna's quest is negated; Lulu's giant breasts and ridiculous clothing are still unacknowledged... The story is off the rails.

>>6148541
Arpeggios are cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2PDPI1FUYA

>>6148568
I agree, but you shouldn't correct the Tidus naming song as that unless you want to get beat up real hard.

>>6146979
4-9 was the glory years.

>>6148612
5-6-7 was the god trilogy. This is absolutely fucking inarguable. You're a dumb nigger if you even try.

>>6146979
FFIX. IX abandoned the previous policy of continual innovation and artistic progress. IX was the first retro FF game (in the true meaning of "retro", not the /vr/ slang).

>>6146979
Anything after IX/XI, X not included
>>6148021
X was not a good game.

>>6147134
you're an idiot, it shows because you don't realize the director of the games are the ones that decide whether its FF classic or newwave (individual character class)

>>6148640
Kill yourself, nu-FF fan.

>>6148551
Sounds like you either have no attention span or a brainlet. All the things you mentioned are set up and interconnected. I'll give you that the Ronso genocide is very much downplayed, but everything else makes sense, though they would've benefited from being more fleshed out.

>>6148651
X is a shit game, it's not retro, and you should be banned for forcing discussion about it.

>>6148657
Cry me a river, nigger. I'm not the one that brought it up. Your favorite FF is a shit game.

>>6148660
FFV is inarguably the best, and you're barely even a human being compared to me.

>>6148663
Jobs are shit, the story is shit and so are the characters. It makes sense now that someone with such a low IQ to not be able to understand straightforward stories would prefer a game with no story.

>>6148669
>the story
>the characters
Get back to me when you're a grown man that can appreciate a game for being a game.

>>6148650
>>>/v/

>>6148681
Epic.

>>6148671
Lmao, you should've just taken the loss you retarded faggot. No one plays these things for their mechanics, but alas you have no other arguments that would make you seem less stupid.

>>6148669
Things I remember about the FFV story:
>main character is named Butz
>Butz is on a chocobo
>something about a princess and a dragon
>Faris has a pussy
>job crystals
>all the legendary weapons are in a single room and you get to just take them
>airship
>Galuf dies
>???
>Exdeath
Ez 10/10, not sure what ur complaining about

>>6148686
The only replayable FF games are 1-3 and 5. The rest are cinematic experiences.

>>6146979

Final Fantasy is done. It's soulless. The series is now 'big budget games targeting as wide as audience as possible.' But there's hope. The smaller budget games feel surprisingly retro. They are the 'true sequels.'

>>6148697
This, minus the reddit spacing and undeserved sense of self-assurance.

>>6148669
>Jobs are shit, the story is shit and so are the characters.
these
it doesn't feel like an actual upgrade over FFI

>>6148703
You're retarded beyond human understanding.

>>6148704
seethe more

>>6148709
Nice argument.

>>6148002
If you got a counterargument I'd love to hear it, but unless you want to try actually saying one I will insist your plot twists and set pieces are garbage.

>>6148715
>u: ad hominem
>me: ad hominem
>u: "grr nice argument"
GB2RF

>>6148723
Ok, let's try to be civil. Why do you think that the FFV job system isn't an improvement over the first game?

>>6146979
10 was the last good one

>>6147726
>They really lost their way with 11 and the whole MMO shit

You never played XI, and probably never played an MMO. XI is the most FF of all FF, it's like 5 on steroids. You're just another poor shitter who either couldn't get mommy to pay for a sub, or a zoomer who missed the boat

>>6148757
Stop trying this hard.

>>6148757
Stop talking about non-retro, you stupid faggot. Go to a board which facilitates MMO namefaggotry so you can go suck a dick or something.

X was the last that made me feel anything
X-2 was trash aside from the battle system, I don't play MMOs, and XII was just andsoulless and boring all around and made me drop the franchise I hear XIII and XV didn't exactly improve things

>>6148059
>I want to assemble my own party and just kill shit and get loot.
Did you play FF1?

>>6146998
>it did kind of go in a new direction which ultimately led to its decline.
That happened many times. FF never had an identity, and was always more than willing to appeal to wider audiences.

X was the mortal blow. FF was always about long written dialogues and inner monologues, it became tedious and dull as spoken. Add Japanese autism making it almost impossible to create good banter (look at FFXV, you wish there was a button to click in order to make everyone shut up) and there you go. They went in the same direction of Western gaming without understanding that Japanese society is incapable of creating good movies and good actors. Voice acting alone can't fix a terrible plot with terrible dialogue.

Also the change in battle system. Nobody asked for this zoomer real time combat, but if you decide to go that way, make it something like the first Mass Effect with the HUB system allowing you to select magic and customize your characters. Instead we have zero customization leading to press X to win.

>>6147134
I actually prefer the games that have set classes since it allows the writers to use the characters outside of combat in more interesting ways, or at least opens up to challenge that specific class. All the open ended games have to account for the fact that you might've turned your 6 foot, ex military strongman into a flimsy healer type

>>6147838
>or whatever the hell 10's deal was about the dream of the faith

Its actually pretty simple.
>Normally a summoner can choose to die and become a Fayth
>Fayth can be used by other summoners to summon Aeons
>All of the Summoners in Zanarkand realized they were going to lose the war
>All of the Summoners in Zanarkand become a Fayth
>Yu Yevon preserves himself as a spirit parasite to constantly summon the Aeon from his mega-fayth which is somehow both a giant godzilla kaiju monster and a city where his people can live out their lives with fake dream people

>>6148971
One of the least of XV's problems was rapport.

>>6148984
>I actually prefer the games that have set classes since it allows the writers to use the characters outside of combat in more interesting ways
That's all well and good when you actually make lovable characters with well-defined and developed classes like Octopath Traveler rather than what FFVI--FFX do.

>>6148273

>>6148636
It definitely was not a good game. It was phenomenal. Nothing you can say will remove it from being the top rated FF game.

Last FF I beat was 9, other than 11 which was great but wasn't a final Fantasy game it was an mmo in FF costume, and 13.

13.

Thats when I knew the series I spent countless hours on was gone and never coming back. X-2 I never played but I hate it on general principle. I tried 10 and 12 but the magic isn't there.

>>6149465
>that's when I the FF I loved was dead :(
I don't understand this mentality. After FFVI this series stood for absolutely nothing. You can literally take any other game like Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler and tell yourself it's a new Final Fantasy game, because the series's title is altogether meaningless.

>>6146979
Starting with IV.

Proper Final Fantasy titles: I, III, V, IX.

> After FFVI this series stood for absolutely nothing.

I don't understand this mentality.


>You can literally take any other game like Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler and tell yourself it's a new Final Fantasy game, because the series's title is altogether meaningless.

Why come to discuss a game series when you obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about.

>>6148757
You are really trying hard to fit in here aren't you?

I'd really love if someone could explain why you all seem to hate XII so much. I played it after I had played almost every other FF game before it and it still remains one of my favourites.

>>6146979
1-9 are the only legit ff games. the rest are just piggybacking on the spirit of those games.

>>6149943
I hated it when i first played it. Thought it was a tedious offline mmo and dropped it for a few months. It takes a while to appreciate just how good the gambit and license system is. In terms of character building/customization it's the best one out of all the FF's. Especially if you count each charter's custom gambits as extra character customization.

>>6149943
I fail to find a single thing right with it, other than the production values.

>>6149943
I don't think most people hate XII, it's just divisive because it's more or less a single player MMO, and the story is drier and less dramatic than your standard FF fare. It's basically crack for grinding autists though—I've spent hundreds of hours collecting every rare piece of equipment on both PS2 and PS4.

>>6149980
The license system is shit, and turns every character into the same blank slate that materia and junctioning do, but it's not even fun to experiment with like they are. TZA was a huge improvement in that it actually requires some basic planning in your character builds.

Gambits are also largely just a convenience thing, and are only really 'required' for the higher level hunts.

>>6148984
Not me, but I care about gameplay far more than story or writing. That's probably why I don't love jrpgs in general though.

>>6149943
Boring. Played over 6 hours of it and nothing I could remember happened. Setting was boring, characters were boring, story was boring. I don't remember a single piece of music, either.

6 hours is all of Midgar in 7, or half of FF4.

>>6146984
this.

>>6147025
How the fuck could you hate FF IX?

>>6148616
7 is overrated as fuck you dumb pleb! At least in IX I was compelled to give a shit about the characters. Also the music was better.

>>6147369
Phoneposters like you need to be culled.

>>6148616
Yep. It goes as follows:

Antiquity Era: FFI - FFIII
Golden Age: FFIV - FFIX
Dark Age: FFX - Present

>>6150737
This.
I still like nu-FF, though.

>>6150737
FF3 is structured and paced just like the SNES games. Just because it isn't on the SNES doesn't mean it isn't more like them than 1 and 2.

>>6146979
Yeah. You’re kinda right. Haven’t bothered to finish one since.

>>6146979
It was XIII. There's merit to be found in every other game in the series even if you personally don't like some entries. But XIII was dogshit in every area. Bland characters, terrible story, on rails game progression, on rails character progression and an incomprehensible upgrading system. There's not a redeeming factor in the entire game.

>>6147838
>or whatever the hell 10's deal was about the dream of the faith
That was fine though and made perfect sense unlike LOL GF'S

>>6148694
>>all the legendary weapons are in a single room and you get to just take them
No

>>6148968
If a FF game doesn't have crystals then it isn't a real FF game. This is why 7 is an FF game and why VIII can fuck off

the real honest answer is X-2 or Xiii
X is a good game even if it was the start of some of the changes that led to what the games are now, XI is great and is what final fantasy should be as an MMO, and XII is a genuinely good game that tried to do something different while mixing itself with a lot of the things that made FFT what it is.

>>6150751
Filtered.

Why are 6 fans so delusional? 7 literally put FF on the map. I feel like the decline started with 9, its a solid game, but also the first FF since 5 where the story and characters are so weak you'd be hard pressed find a thread with people discussing them in depth like they do with earlier entries. 9 discussion boil down to Vivi/Steiner being based and Quina/Amarant being ugly losers. 10 was the beginning of style over substance but it wouldn't have been so bad if it were less linear. 12 is a lot like 9 where its not bad but its not really good either, its just a solid rpg, nothing special. 13 is when the series became a complete joke. Sure sales and production values are through the roof, but its no far from being in the discussion for GOTY like persona 5.

>>6150868
>7 literally put FF on the map

You're aware that plenty of people played these games before 7, right?

>>6150787
7 doesn't have jobs, though. 6 and 10 are borderline cases, but basically do.

>>6150787
Then that means FFXIII and FFXV are real FF games but not II, VI and VIII.
I guess Magicite counts as crystals to you so FFVI is a real FF.

>>6150873
well he's not wrong.
you can't really deny that for most people into the series nowadays, it was their first or is one of the most recommended ones to play first, and it continues to sell like crazy with every release.

>>6150890
I like FF7 more than most people. It is generally considered too old and to have bad graphics these days.

>>6150901
i still see a lot of young people play it, and if people aren't playing it themselves, they are watching someone else play it sadly enough.
it's still one of the most played FF games ever.

>>6150868
>and Quina/Amarant being ugly losers
Quina is based though. Steiner is for losers who don't know how to fight

>>6150773
It was stupid though. Tidus's sacrifice didn't really mean anything and honestly just kind of undermined all the moving on he did if he was doomed anyways. they could have just had a nice fish out of water story and called it a game.

>>6147134
FFV was totally breakable

>>6151112
>Tidus's sacrifice didn't really mean anything and honestly just kind of undermined all the moving on he did if he was doomed anyways
Tidus sacrifice meant everything because he made the choice to die so Yuna and Spira could live. Besides he wasn't doomed in the end because he survives and you see him coming out of the water responding to Yuna's whistle. That was ruined by X-2 but that's not the point.

>>6150884
Not him, but I always thought the magicite was interesting & fresh way to use crystals in the story.

>>6151142
Tidus was summoned from imagination. There was no sacrifice, he had to die or yu yevon would have lived.

>>6151112
>they could have just had a nice fish out of water story and called it a game.

Yeah, this was my problem with 8 as well. It was so much better when it was just about angsty teens living at a military academy, then it turns into time compression/orphanage/dreams nonsense. Square tries way too hard with the stories after 7.

>>6151129
Obviously, but that's not the point. Also they all are anyways.

>>6146979
At VI, not after. It's such a huge drop in gameplay qualify compared to IV or V.

>>6150868
>7 literally put FF on the map
Not wrong, but not quite right either. I think the previous games were good enough and popular to obviously warrant sequels. But 7 for some reason blew the lid off and had mass appeal. So I think its a little bit of both.

>>6146984
X was shit, I didn't even finish it. The voice acting is so fucking cringe it's like a parody.

>>6152569
You never played it, zoom zoom. And the only scene you've ever seen was the meme laugh.

>>6152584
No need to throw your toys out the pram because I dissed your first and favourite final fantasy, zoomer.

Aside from the Squaresoft golden trio of 5/6/7 the quality has gone up and down constantly over the years, but has steadily declined since 8. The actual problem is that upper management consider the series sacred and thus refuse to do anything interesting with it that isn't based on market research. You can't get a coherent creative vision while constantly pulling the rug out from under your game director (like with XII and vsXIII), so we get all these half baked gameplay and story ideas that they try to hide under pretty graphics.
FFXIII had something like 200 artists and an army of programmers working on it. That's retarded. They'd be better off picking someone mad like Yoko Taro, giving him 4-5 years and a modest team/budget, and letting him go hog wild. Cultivate and rotate your crop of talent, develop multiple titles concurrently, and instead of one mediocre AAA game every 10 years you could have a really good A- or AA-tier game every 2 years. Some might be duds but you're courting success instead of failure by remaining fresh and interesting.

>>6146979
My first FF was unironically Crystal Chronicles on the GC
I found all Final Fantasies around the third entry until 9 good. 8 and 9 are the most underrated games, with 8 being superior to 7 in almost everything (which wonders me why 8 didn't has such a cultural impact like 7, it does everything 7 does but better and has a more interesting world building).

Only around the PS2 era FF games started to suck, with 15 being the worst game in the entire series. I dunno why, honestly. I heard Lighting Returns and Type 0 is great, but FF13 was so bad that I didn't bother with the other 3 games in the 13 series (Type 0 is part of the 13 lore, right?) and I STILL found it somehow better than 15.

>>6147381
Murder yourself.

>>6146979
7 was where the cracks started to appear. As soon as you leave midgar it becomes a bit of a mess. It's where square's main design flaw started to shine through. What they do is they make a whole bunch of assets, characters, worlds, towns, vehicles etc... just a whole bunch of nonsense and then they jam it all together. FF7 was the first game where you could see this unfocused design attitude seeping into their games. When you leave midgar and reach the next town (Kalm) it looks like a fucking prototype from an entirely different game. The cut scenes have no consistency, one minute they're chibi and the next minute they're badass full size characters. You have to play all these stupid out of place mini games with HORRIBLE controls etc.

>>6150765
Sazh and Fang was great.
Grand Pulse was the game's peak too.
FF13-2 had better gameplay but Act3's story can be summerised as Snow basically cucking himself. And Caius ending up dooming all of humanity to save his loli.Damn

>>6154578
Kill yourself. Even 8 apologists are better than 13's.

>>6153448
actually this

>Kill yourself.
>does not refute what I said or add an argument
anon I can tell you are too young to enter this site

meant this >>6154585 for
>>6154580

>>6154578
>Grand Pulse was the game's peak too.
Yeah it went from corridors to one big field, much better. The game was shit and Fang was generic as hell

>>6154578
Have to agree with the FFXIII old chap. Sazh was alright.

But FFXIII is probably one of the most boring video games I've ever played. The combat is extremely monotonous and the player feels perpetually alienated from it. There is absolutely no proper world-building done (just text dumps which give people no motivation to actually care about them), and the game gives you nothing to care about the characters or their quest.

FF8 had a ridiculous story that falls apart when you give it the slightest thought, but it actually does good world-building, and the characters are silly but memorable. It has some moments of humor which work. The battle system is totally broken, but it also lets you do whatever you want with it, being ridiculously open-ended (you can play cards all the way to top battle stats for fucksakes).

>>6155968
*FFXIII haters

my favs would have to be:
8>9>7>10

never played the snes ones. probably never will. if i had to say where ff lost me i would point to x-2. could care less about 11, 12 looked kinda bland in comparison to the earlier ones and 13 just sucked

my favs would have to be:
8>9>7>10

never played the snes ones. probably never will. if i had to say where ff lost me i would point to x-2. could care less about 11, 12 looked kinda bland in comparison to the earlier ones and 13 just bad

>>6153308
well at least your post wasnt harsh. oh wait...

When Sakaguchi left. In b4

>muh spirits within

>>6152569
eh i thought it was quaint. didnt really other me at the time. and I dont really get why ppl have a problem with the; "HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW" Tidus and Yuna scene