/vr/ - Retro Games

Yes. This elitist shit is getting old. It's just videogames.

>>6120735
>>6120739
No, troll.

>>6120735
No because you probably used save states and fast forwarding

>>6120735
Can you say you watched a movie if it wasn't in the theater?

>>6120739
>t. never beat a real game

>>6120735
No
You can replay it however you like, but if you didn't experience it how it was meant to be played then you cannot have a valid opinion of the actual game compared to somebody who has played it on original hardware and beat it

>>6120735
Yes, why wouldn't you say that?
Save states and other forms of cheating don't really count, because they alter the normal rules of the game. You're effectively playing a different game than the regular version. So you could say you beat "the game with cheats," but but that's not equivalent to "the game."

It's not that important in most contexts, so people generally won't care if you just say "I beat the game." But if you're comparing scores or talking about how challenging a game was to beat, it helps to specify how you played (cheats or no cheats, which difficulty, etc.).

So no flash carts, no modern displays, no home ports of arcade games, no ports in general, no updated re-releases of any kind? Very dumb standard, desu.

>>6120735
Yes, some genesis and nes games

>>6120839
No 3rd party controllers, no console revisions, must be one of the first hundred produced cartridge.

>>6120839

Beating a game isn't some kind of certification, you don't get a degree for it. You can have fun with an artificial experience.

>>6120839
Yeah, it's a ridiculous standard.
>flash carts
Exactly the same game
>modern displays
displays were never 100% equal, and it also doesn't affect the game's internal functioning. Might screw with the input lag though and make the game more or less enjoyable.
>home ports of arcade games, no ports in general, no updated re-releases
This depends on how different the versions are though. In some cases they're different enough that you should specify which version you played.

>>6120849
When your qualifications for "beating a game" are so narrow that they exclude the vast majority of people that'll play them, you might need to rethink your idea of "beating games" because it's functionally useless.

>>6120735
Can you say you watched a football game if you weren't at the actual stadium?

>>6120989
Yes, but watching at the stadium is a different experience. You might actually see more from home depending on your seats.

>>6120989

You can say you saw the game on TV, not that you went to the game

>>6120891

>zoomers actually believe that the vast majority of people never experienced a retro video game on the actual hardware

>>6121001
Just because you played on an NES doesn't mean you played the actual game on the actual hardware, most likely you played a Japanese game with an original Japanese version on the famicom, which you didn't play. A lot of the time these games are butchered ports of arcade games, which were also modified for western release.

>>6120735
>Can you say you beat a game if it wasn't on real, original hardware?

Whew lad.

Does it even matter? Do you get validation from beating a game? Sounds like a pretty silly thing to find self worth in, but you do you ape man.

>>6121017
Yeah, but there are degrees to this. Some ports are butchered, some are really close to perfect.

Nobody's going to care in general if you beat NES Metroid vs the Japanese version which had better sound, saving, and some minor differences in gameplay. Unless you're doing something like speedrunning where load times and stuff have an impact.

>>6121037
*I haven't played the FDS version, not sure how the music compares actually

>>6121037
So then the deciding factor isn't the hardware, but whether or not the game is a close enough approximation of the original? Emulators are better for that than any /vr/ era arcade to console port.

>>6121046
>So then the deciding factor isn't the hardware, but whether or not the game is a close enough approximation of the original?
Pretty much. The more different the game is compared the original version, the more important it is to specify the version.
>Emulators are better for that than any /vr/ era arcade to console port.
True. With MAME, there's not much reason to play a lot of /vr/ arcade ports anymore.

>>6121001
But you can say you saw the game

>>6120780
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0

>>6120735
>>6120780
Yes.
>>6121414
David Lynch said nothing of watching BluRay releases or 1080p torrents on your computer or TV, however. That's because watching a movie on your phone (a minuscule screen) is akin to playing a game with massive use of save states and fast-forward.

>>6121001
>You can say you saw the game on TV, not that you went to the game
If you beat a game on an emulator you can say you beat the game on an emulator, but not that you beat the game on the original hardware.

The point is that either way (going to the stadium or staying at home; playing the game on original hardware or emulating the game) constitutes watching the match and playing the game.

>>6120735
>Can you say you beat a game if it wasn't on real, original hardware?
nope

Who fuckin cares?

>>6120735
Yeah as long as you aren't cheating in anyway

>>6120735
>>6120780
>>6120989
No.

>>6120857
>Might screw with the input lag though and make the game more or less enjoyable.
That FF9 skipping game is impossible now because of this

>>6120735
No save state's no problem

>>6122982
I'd also say though that save states are fine in some limited cases. Like if you're using them just to suspend the game and come back later (only using the state once).

Can you say you browsed 4chan if it wasn’t on a 2003 windows XP dell pc?

>>6120735
Yes. If it's the game, it's the game. And if you beat it the way the game intended, then you beat the game.

>>6120735
>Can you say you beat a game if it wasn't on real, original hardware?
Yes, in fact usually playing on an emulator will present extra challenge due to input lag.

>>6123420
Proof? Original hardware has more lag than emulation now unless you have proof that original hardware has decreased to under 3 frames of lag.

>>6120735
Can you say you read a book if it wasn't a first edition copy? Can you say you saw a film if it wasn't at the premiere?

Yes. To all. Original hardware means absolutely nothing. I'm not going to entertain the autism of believing milliseconds input lag matters pretty much ever. I refuse to cater to you idiots anymore. Are you really communicating with us if it's not in person? Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.

>>6124213
Actually, saying input lag doesn't matter is autistic. But an underage reddit spacing android using newfag wouldn't know that.

the original console isn't what matters, the original controller is.

>>6124230
This! Original controller is where it's at if you want to feel like a true winner. I soft mod the my retro consoles to play the original games on them. Custom made cartridge or disc swapping basically. And no save states.

>>6124230
This! Original controller is where it's at if you want to feel like a true winner. I soft mod my retro consoles to play the original games on them. Custom made cartridge or disc swapping basically. And no save states.

>>6124193
>Original hardware has more lag than emulation now
Don't be stupid. It's safe to assume the vast majority of people emulating aren't using runnahead, they just download snes9x and call it a day.

>>6120739
Fpbp

>>6120739
/thread

>>6124764
Using runahead breaks games anyways.

>>6120735
Sure you can. You can also say you're a 6'5" tall Chinese woman..

>>6120739
>t. poorfag who can't afford original hardware

>>6126243
lol you can't afford a computer you salt mine.

you probably don't even have internet.

>>6126260
>projecting this hard

>>6121916
>/vr/: where people argue about how to play games, instead of playing games

>>6121414
Okay, so don't emulate games on my phone, but what about my computer?

>>6124223
Using spaces is Reddit as hell

>>6120735
Yes, unless the emulation makes it easier, otherwise as long as no cheats were enabled, all's fair.

>>6120735
If you aren't an elitist cunt, then yes.
If you are an elitist cunt, then you didn't beath those games either since the real "original hardware" is a devkit hardware, and you don't have that.

>>6127826
>If you are an elitist cunt, then you didn't beath those games either since the real "original hardware" is a devkit hardware, and you don't have that
That's a new form of poorfag cope that I've never encountered before.

>>6127835
cry some more, fag who never a game on actual original hardware

>>6127846
Oh yeah I'm crying every second man. YOU PW0N'D me.

>>6120735
Can you say you beat the game if you didn't 1cc it on original cabinet?

>>6121432
>watching a movie on your phone (a minuscule screen) is akin to playing a game with massive use of save states and fast-forward.

I... I don't understand this analogy. Save states and fast-forward are used to cheat or skip things you believe are boring. You can't "beat" a movie, and watching it on your phone doesn't serve any function like this.

>>6127826
>zoomerlogic
lol

>>6127835
>>6128187
He's right in the sense that this need for authenticity suddenly gets cut off at whatever you happened to have owned/played as a kid, even if those versions are heavily modified and butchered for western/console release. Hardware elitism is sad as a whole, even contrasted with its counterpart, skill-based elitism. With the latter the idea is to get people to show a certain level of commitment and appreciation which by its nature recognizes both. The function of the former is to either a. justify your own spent money by demanding the same of others b. uplift your own position over other players for completely trivial reasons, many of whom are probably more passionate than you are to begin with.

>>6128195
No one back then or now considers store-bought hardware not the original hardware. Autism is right.

>>6128229
Yes and this sudden thought termination is exactly why "muh authenticity" isn't to be taken seriously as any kind of principle, but rather a way for autistic petty fags online to act elitist. If it were a serious principle, it wouldn't suddenly get cut off at "you buy it at the store", it would extend far beyond that to things like original Japanese releases on the famicom which have some very notable differences, experienced in the original language, no ports of any kind whether older or modern, and so on. To be fair there ARE a few giga-spergs that have that attitude but they are few and far in between.

>>6120735
Yes. You just need to not use save states, rewind, turbo functions and fastforward. IMO using a controller different than that of the OG hardware adds to the difficulty instead of making the game easier.

>>6128237
>serious principle
>video games
>games

>>6128247
It's normal to expect a hobbyist to have a set of beliefs that form their principles and inform how they engage with any medium. Besides, what's the point of principles if you can constantly ignore them when it comes to anything you deem not important enough?

>>6128254
>It's normal to expect a hobbyist to have a set of beliefs that form their principles and inform how they engage with any medium
Yeah, but the original hardware from the store is a fair baseline, anything else is ridiculous.

>>6128240
>IMO using a controller different than that of the OG hardware adds to the difficulty instead of making the game easier.
That needed to be said. Thank you.

>>6128267
Why? I don't see a reason besides that it's convenient to the people spouting this shit. Hardware has regional differences, software has regional differences and differences between revisions. What about things like TV's? Should these old games be experienced on CRT TV's? The "just like the developer intended" autism in regards to CRT's can reach comical levels simply because what's authentic is unclear, and that's just one aspect. How about ports? Clearly you are not playing the original game if you're playing a home port of an arcade game, or a later release like the various classics collections. Or do they not value authenticity and just value buying shit from the store? In that case it's even more pathetic since it's pure consumerism.

To me, the baseline is simply if the game is a close approximation of the original to the point where all or the vast majority of skills can be carried over between the original and what you're playing. This includes different releases, ports, small regional differences, emulation, and so on.

>>6128275
>Why?
Because you have autism.

>>6128286
Im explaining the logical conclusion of your mentality. If you think it's autistic, then consider that maybe the mentality you're adopting is itself autistic.

>>6128312
lol you don't know how to stop because you're autistic.

>>6128325
Maybe, doesnt make me wrong tho

>>6128329
You're correct in the same sense that America had 13 presidents before George Washington-no one recognizes it and it's unofficial.

Another question to ponder: is official emulation on official hardware sufficient? Is it sufficient to beat FFVI on PSP? How about FFVII on the Vita. Metal Gear Solid on PS3? These don't offer speedups, hax, or cheats. If it counts, it's also technically not piracy.

>>6128342
Nah that comparison doesn't work in the slightest. I'm not bringing up some irrelevant bits of trivia I'm taking what's ostensibly a principle to its natural conclusion, which you don't like because your elitism is entirely feelings driven and has an arbitrary cutoff point made for the sake of convenience. So when someone talks about the implications of taking what you say seriously it comes off as autistic - because the attitude itself is autistic when you think about it. It's fine to have completely feelings driven, unsubstantiated positions of course, unless you use them as a way to act elitist towards others.

>>6128370
To most people yes, "original hardware" elitists struggle to reconcile these things with their view though, because their view is a cope.

>>6128370
>is official emulation on official hardware sufficient?
Unless it makes the game easier, why not? With original hardware that's failing, there's no way around either type of emulation.

>>6127863
Arcade games are a way more complex issue than the console shitposting OP's doing. Silent Scope is a good example of a game that all but needs to be played on an original cabinet, because the machine itself is part of the game. Then there are things like bullet hell games where the slowdown is standardized on the original hardware, but ports and emulation alter it based on what's running the game.

>>6128240
>turbo functions
This one is more debatable than the others. Like with shmups, people generally don't care if you 1cc a game using turbo/autofire. Score lists might list whether or not autofire was used, but people don't look down on it. That said, it does change the experience to some extent. For some games it doesn't make much of a difference, while for some others it can significantly change the difficulty (Darius Gaiden for example).

It's also different in another way. Save states, rewinds, and fast-forwards all alter the functioning of the game. Turbo doesn't, it's just altering your inputs into the game.

>>6128240
>IMO using a controller different than that of the OG hardware adds to the difficulty instead of making the game easier.
Depends, but I think this is generally true.

>>6120891
>that they exclude the vast majority of people that'll play them
Lmao you actually think a “vast majority” emulates games. Jesus fucking christ

>>6128496
Nowadays? Yes, abso-fucking-lutely. They either use emulators or official releases which are just emulation anyway.

>>6128496
I'm with
>>6128497
On this one, emulation is simply more accessible and cost effective than buying expensive rare (or cheap repro) carts or old degrading disks. Even first party digital rereleases are more convenient than that, to wit: I have every mainline Final Fantasy game from I-X in some form my PS Vita and all of them but for III, IV, X and X-2 are emulated PS1. III & IV have the honor of being emulated PSP. Hell, you can consider X PS2 emulation too. That's not even counting the other PS1 and PSP games that are emulated on that system, and that's *just* one system, not jailbroken, official releases, no items, Fox only, final destination. Emulation, be it official or (technical) piracy is the future of non-enthusist or budget retro gaming.

>>6120735
if you ever died in a video game regardless if there are "lives" you didn't actually beat the game. no saving. no loading. no dying. ever. start to finish. every game. any game.

>>6127867
What I mean to say is that playing a game or watching a game those ways is a disservice to the game/movie, to the point you can't really say you have experienced it as it was intended. There's no doubt you have beaten the game and seen the film, but you haven't properly experienced them (which is what Lynch was getting at).

Sure, we can go philosophical and say "the intended way to experience them was by playing/watching them when they released", but people don't make elitist claims like these when it comes to movies, so I don't see why apply them to games either.

>>6128240
As someone who has played emulated NES games with his DS3 and grew up playing with a cheap Famicom clone: how wrong you are. I couldn't play more than one hour before my thumb started hurting. That square gamepad was the work of the Devil.

>>6127867
>>6128869
>you can't really say you have experienced it as it was intended
To use an example: when I was a kid I would play Pokémon emulated, with fast forward and save states.

1) Grinding? No problem. I would overlevel everything easily.
2) Catching legendaries? No problem. I would save state all the time.

But playing the game as intended painted a very different picture for me: the battles were slow as fuck to the point I gave up on the game (Pokémon Red) entirely. No save states meant that what was a rather boring task (catching a Legendary) would become a genuine accomplishment.

In other words: yes, I have beaten Pokémon Yellow, Pokémon Gold/Silver and Crystal, Pokémon Red/Sapphire and Emerald. I can't say I've genuinely experienced them, though, because save states and fast forward make for entirely different experiences, a dealbreaker between "I've beaten the game" and "I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole".

Granted, we are talking different things when it comes to movies: if you finished a film on your iPhone, it stands to reason you would have finished on your TV/computer as well, because the experience is simply much more engrossing. The point still stands, however: you miss a lot of the finer details when watching it on such a small screen. Watching it on cinema or TV is very similar on the other hand (and I would argue it's MUCH better to watch it at home than sit at the first row of the theater, your head always looking up and suffering from massive distortion because of the perspective).

>>6120735
better question. who cares?

i'm not a let's player, speedrunner or tourneyfag so why does it matter?

>>6128195
"He" is you, right? Either way you're not right. You, happened to have emulated as a kid and that happens to be earlier today. That doesn't make it anything more than emulating and that's why you're so butthurt.

>>6129718
If I'm wrong, how come you haven't provided an argument? I grew up playing on original hardware, nowadays I emulate pretty much exclusively because emulation is indistinguishable from the real deal outside of very minute shit, or later systems. It also allowed me to play the original versions of games I played as a kid, for better (Ghosts N Goblins, Castlevania 3) or for worse (Turtles In Time, Jackal).

>>6120735
The keyword here is 'game', and I think yes. The actual experience however can very well be different and is another story entirely, being an ongoing phenomena that always happens with multiplayer titles - especially the much more volatile games of today.

>>6120735
Yes, for non-competative purposes.

As long as you didn't use tools unavailable to that hardware. Turbo buttons (even on physical controllers), save states (with the exception of save states used where checkpoints or save locations already are), rewind, etc.
But most people will disregard this and say they beat Mario 3 after savescumming for 3 hours to beat it as fast as possible.

>>6120735
Every movie you saw on tv instead of the cinema? You actually didn't, it was your mental illness acting up again

>>6120735
No. Emulating is cheating.

>>6130869
>why don't you argue with an emubaby
The same reason I don't play chess with pigeons. You're just a sad little poorfag posting angsty sour grape rants. Maybe fun for a good laughs but certainly not for any sort of conversation.

As long as you are playing it the way the Devs intended (Eg not cheating excessively and not using rewinds) then you're good senpai

>>6132245
Coulda just admitted you had none and spared us the cope

>>6120735
Sure, I don't see why not. I don't understand your confusion, you sound like some elitist fuckwad who smells his own farts.

Do flashcarts count as real, original hardware, or do the game carts have to be the real thing as well?

>>6132631
No, anon. Do you now know what original hardware means?

>>6132562
But the only reason I reply to stupid zoomers is to see their cope. "argue with my irrelevant shit opinion! do it NAO!" LMAO. There's nothing to argue. You're a deluded poorfag who thinks the voices in your head are reality. You don't argue with someone like that. You place them on a psych hold.

>>6132761
>nuh uh, UR coping and a zoomer A-AND crazy
Truly and deeply pathetic response. Btw, not sure if hardware elitists should talk about relevancy of opinion, considering emulation is increasingly becoming the norm for playing these games.

>>6120748
Fuck off, OP's not a troll. No one gives a shit.

>>6120739
the true elitism is thinking that beating games matters or is something to be proud of

having fun is the objective of gaming

>>6120735
Yes. Excluding cheating.

This is just a bullshit argument collectors make to cope with spending their life savings on old shit that any body can download and play for free.

>>6132631
response-time of the nand/ram on flashcarts is different to the response-time of legit carts.

>>6133476
To what extent does that change the games though?

>>6133572
they're not performing like the developers intended.

>>6133589
I doubt the developers would care about something so minor.

>>6120735
I can say whatever the fuck I want and you can't stop me.

Beat a game lul.
Peoples obsessed with that bullshit. Just play it on whatever console you like.

>>6132767
>zooming intensifies
>seething intensifies
>coping intensifies

Yes. The game remains the same, all the changes is how you run the game. There is no difference between playing OoT on a N64 vs playing OoT on a PC. You experience the story and the combat in the exact same way. It is autism of the highest degree to think that there is a difference.

>>6120735
Yes, I was finally able to complete Phantasy Star III recently on my Emulation PC.

>>6134335
All you fucking do is move goal posts like an annoying bratty daughter who wasn't raised properly and can't argue or think. Watching this conversation has made me side with the emu guy because unlike you, he at the very least made concrete arguments to convince me half way, you have made none and hide behind your lack of argument with low effort middle school insults. You won't convince anyone by acting like a child when you run out of arguments.

>>6120739
This
In fifty years nobody will care about your 256kb kids toys written in assembly

>>6135242
>muh moving goalpost
>muh samefagging
C'mon, you can do better than that little zoomer

>100+ replies
embarrassing

>>6120735
You're not allowed to say you beat the game unless you beat it the same year it came out.

>>6136289
>release game NY eve one second before midnight
>game is now impossible to beat
>ultimate artificial difficulty achievement unlocked

>>6120825
Whoa dude, u should like, take ur sweet debate skills to Reddit bro!

>>6136232
It was your reply that did it.

Beating a game with emulation is typically harder than real hardware:
>controller not the same as original
>input timing and latency not the same as original.

And this is coming from a hardware guy. You elitists are just sad.

>>6137471
In your defense, the champion of Robotron (or maybe former now) told me that the game is harder emulated because it runs too fast, and there are other games from that era that do that.

>>6137471
>And this is coming from a larper

>>6137471
>controller not the same as original
That can be a good thing. Original controllers tend to be worn out or the rubber bits on the inside degrade from age. Or they're just poorly designed from the start.

>input timing and latency not the same as original.
The most significant source of lag comes from the screen you use and using original hardware won't fix that. Converting analog to digital will just make it worse.

>>6126243
I hope you're using a flash cart and aren't a collectorcuck of physical games you have no intention of selling for a profit.

>>6138041
I don't buy games I won't play, the only games I own physical are ones I actually wanted and have fun with. I emulate everything else.

>>6120735
So I guess once the last copy of contra stops functioning or is destroyed after multiple centuries, nobody can truly ever beat contra again?

>>6139113
>So I guess once the last copy of contra stops functioning
They'll probably last a thousand years, and long before then our descendants will have Star Trek replicators that make breakdowns moot.

>>6139127
Probably more like 40 years. People really over estimate the life of this stuff.

>>6120748
Is this the janny who banned me when I said I’m disgusted by adults and teenagers who play handhelds in public?

>>6139163
>Probably more like 40 years
Wrongo. Most well-taken-care-of carts haven't even degraded a teeny tiny little bit. 1000 years is a conservative estimate if anything. Now the capacitors and batteries will be done long before that, but those are replaceable.

>>6139163
I’ve got a handful of NES games from my childhood that simply don’t work anymore. They’ve been well taken care of, they’re just old. Slalom doesn’t work.

>>6139184
>They’ve been well taken care of,
Riiiight. I'm sure you never dropped them or left them in intense heat or cold too.

>>6139187
Dropped them? Maybe a foot at the most and onto carpet. Intense heat or cold? No. Room temperature.

>>6132631
Flash carts allow for save stating, so they are just as illegitimate as using an emulator imo.

>>6139193
The sad thing is that I’m no longer sure if posts like this are shitposting with how insane Buy/Collectorfags are getting in current year.

>>6139191
>Maybe a foot at the most and onto carpet.
^and this is what they ADMIT to.
>Room temperature
Can someone be more vague? Room temperature some one man is freezing or boiling to another.

*to one man
I swear to God someone is fucking with posts in transit. There's a security problem on this site ever since it went unsecured.

>>6138032
No, emulators themselves often add a frame or even two of input lag though this is slowly getting better with run ahead and other lag reduction becoming the norm. But still try to emulate some dreamcast games and feel the full extent of the input lag. And despite that there's people who 1cc emulated dreamcast shmups and even get good scores, which I'd say is slightly more impressive than doing it on hardware.

>>6120735
Can you say you really truly got to experience a game the proper way if you weren't alive in the correct time period to play it?

>>6120735
I could, but I'd rather master a game in some way and then share insightful tidbits with another blessed autist about the finer points of the game's design and compare notes on how the hardware changed the experience.

>>6133476
Flashcarts have more input lag than real carts? Big if true

>>6120735

Come on bud, of course you can.

>>6120739
That was quick.
/thread

>>6140612
This. If you didn't have the specific context the designers intended you didn't really beat it

>>6120735
Yes.

>>6120735
If you look at a picture of the Mona Lisa can you tell people you saw the Mona Lisa? Of course not. It's not the full authentic experience.

>>6120735
Yes I can and if your opinion is otherwise, you'll have no way of knowing anyway.

>>6120735
If the game is running at normal speeds (RPGs not included) and you didn't use Save States: Then yes, you beated the game.

>>6142323
>zoomers have more smaller brains that hampsters? Small and true.