/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6064679
in what context? this can go several ways...

>>6064683
The only thing that fucking matters games.

>>6064684
if you want the Genesis pt2, then Saturn
if you want the Playstation 1.5 with a goofy controller, then Dreamcast

>>6064684
What KIND of games, Anon? What is your criteria for one game betting "better" than another? This is highly subjective. The Saturn was around for longer and had a larger library, especially its Japanese library. The Dreamcast has more awesome arcade ports, more party games and online capacity. Saturn games are more expensive and it's more of a hassle to play burned games. Many more highly subjective differences between the two.

>>6064679
>original nogamestation vs fighting/racing arcade trash
They're both shit, but the dc is better.

>>6064694
t.Someone who has never owned either a Saturn or a Dreamcast

DC was better.
DOA2 >DOA1
HotD2>HotD
Grandia2>Grandia1

Dynamite Cop 2 Deka wasn't as good as Die Hard Arcade.
Panzer Dragoon trilogy was Kino, but Sonic, Tales, Soul Calibur, Crazy Taxi, and Jet Grind make up for it.

DC fixed MOST of the problems with Saturn.

>>6064736
i owned both in the early 00s. both were inferior to the Genesis and PS1 respectively

>>6064694
>Playstation 1.5
more like the Nintendo 128
Lots of Dreamcast games look like beefed up N64 games to me

>>6064712
>Thinks the DC had lots of fighting/racing
kek

>>6064760
That's nearly all I had on the DC beyond Carrier, Blue Stinger, Sonic Adventure, Dynamite Cop, and Code Veronica, and I had a fucking lot of that shit.

>>6064679
>>6064684
They both have some great games. In my experience if you want either then you'd want both. I don't honestly know which I'd pick if I had to.

>>6064684
Someone should go through and edit out ports. Is anybody going to unironically play the Saturn port of Duke 3D instead of the PC version, beyond maybe for novelty's sake? At least the PlayStation version had extra levels. And do the extra features in The House of the Dead for Saturn make up for how inferior it is to the arcade original?

NO.

>>6064694
>Genesis pt2
I wish. The Saturn was just a worse PS1 with some decent arcade ports. Sequels to Genesis games were either non-existent, incredibly disappointing (Golden Axe, Shinobi Legions). or you need knowledge of runes to play it (Shining Force III parts 2 and 3).

I play the Saturn more than my dreamcast. Better controllers is the main reason and I enjoy 2D games.

>>6064770
Who cares? Anyone who needs a chart like that is a retard to start with.

>>6064770
Also most of the japanese games there require you to know japanese

>>6064787
Use this

>>6064805
sure, send me a link

>>6064807
Just fucking google it retard.

>>6064679
>better
>what did the zoomer mean by this
Yes. The Saturn tastes much better. The DC just doesn't have any flavor. I tried adding salt, ketchup, tabasco, you name it. It didn't help.

>>6064805
Also good for using Virtual On Twin Sticks

>>6064787
Most people think I'm crazy but DC has my favorite d-pad of all time for fighting games. It's so small but pivots in a real nice way. I can do 360's, half circles and orochinagis on it faster and easier than anything else.

>>6064760
bait

>>6064679
Need you even ask? The Shiturn is the shittiest console of all time, fuck that useless piece of shit and anyone who thinks otherwise can go get fucked in the ass by that faggot Segata Sanshiro.

>>6064712
>>6064760
>>6064848
Out of 620 total games over all the regions, about 60 are racing and 60 are fighting. Versus 40 odd shooters, 40 strategy, 35 RPGs, 140 adventure games and 160 action etc.

>>6064870
It was more around 800

>>6064873
That's just what wikipedia happens to mention. At any rate it's the ratio that's important.

>>6064873
No it happens to be what this guy mentions. You'd really have me take your word over his?

>>6064879
No wikipedia says 620 zoomy zoom

Platforming: SAT > DC
Shooters: SAT < DC
Fighting: SAT > DC
Racing: SAT < DC
Puzzle: SAT = DC
Adventure: SAT < DC
RPG: SAT < DC
Bmup: SAT > DC
Rhythm: SAT < DC
Sports: SAT < DC
Strategy: SAT > DC
Simulation: SAT < DC
Pinball: SAT > DC

Verdict: Dreamcast wins.

>>6064870
Shovelware doesn't count.

>>6064879
No this guy mentions 800. You would seriously have me take your word over his?

Well which one has Sonic Adventure 2? There, your question is answered.

>>6064921
sa2 is fucking wank lad

>>6064921
The gamecube

>>6064938
based, redpilled

>>6064870
>>6064879
Autism.
The ratio literally doesn't matter at all. What matters is that there are plenty of quality racing and fighting games to choose from on Dreamcast. Simple as.

>>6064941 Based truthpost

>>6064679
Yes, simply for the fact that i had more fun with saturn games, and that by the time time the dc got released games were already dying.

>>6064679
It's more a matter of preference in terms of games. Radiant Silvergun vs Ikaruga. Street Fighter Alpha series vs Street Fighter III series. Panzer Dragoon series vs Crazy Taxi or Jet Set Radio.

If I had a gun to my head, I'd pick the Dreamcast, but that's just me.

>>6064694
>Genesis pt2

That would be the 32x, ya dummy

>>6064861
But dont you want Segata to make sweet ass love to you, Bernie poster?

>>6064679 (OP) #
Yes, simply for the fact that i had more fun with saturn games, and that by the time the dc got released games were already dying. Sat > DC.

>>6064965
If you like the saturn more shouldnt it not be being eaten by >

>>6064941
ruthless

>>6065047
>shouldnt it not be being eaten by >?
DC > SAT literally means he'd take the Dreamcast over the Saturn if given a choice between the two, therefore "eating" the Dreamcast, instead of the Saturn.

>>6065165
I should add, however, since he said SAT > DC, the opposite rings true in this case.
I misread

To clarify this once and for all. If i was starving i would eat my DREAMCAST first. And leave the SATURN for last.

>>6064948
The ratio matters when the claim is that's all the system has.

>>6064963
actually, the Sega CD would be the answer. the 32X had far too much in common with the Saturn to consider it a separate iteration, vs the SCD which was a massive leap forward from the Genesis, especially with its 8-channel pcm sound chip and X/Y board derived graphics asic. its only serious limitation was the 9-bit color output supported by the VDP, obviously carried over from the Genesis.

>>6064861
End yourself, bernieposter. You're just mad because the Saturn will continue to be a cult console well after your very death.

>>6064861
based bernard.

>>6064679
Saturn more like Shit Urn

>>6065764
>>6065773
>>6064861
samefag

I LOVE saturn.... and its 3 good games.

Saturn killed Sega. Anyone that likes it probably hates Sega and is secretly glad about it ruining them.

>>6065786
I love the PD trilogy too, but you should do a bit more of research anon, there's way more good games for the Sega Saturn, the mystical 5th gen system that only plebs dislike.

>>6065792
Nice forced narrative, falseflagger.
Sega Saturn is a beloved system by Sega fans all around the world, and it can't be blamed for Sega's fall, since they released one more console after that.
But even the DC didn't "kill Sega".
And no, Sega of Japan didn't kill themselves either.
>b-but I've heard on a youtube channel that SoJ forced SoA to release the Saturn as a surprise and it made retailers upset!
Retailers can suck my cock. That's not enough to kill a company.
The reason why Sega stopped doing consoles is because of Sony, not because of shitty youtube parrot bullshit.

>>6065795
DC was more of a success than the Saturn initially, it's just by that point the damage was already done from the Saturn's objective failure and Sega was already too far in the hole. Driving away third-parties by mismanaging the Saturn, wasting money and time on Saturn which sold like shit, betraying trust in consumers, all thanks to that garbage system. Fun fact, Sega was so tarnished by the DC that they chose to leave out "Sega" from the name to distance themselves away from the bad taste left behind by the Sega Saturn.

>>6065795
Sega of Japan getting to design the Dreamcast hardware instead of Sega of America after the Saturn hardware debacle is complete bullshit.

>>6065795
>muh historical revisionism

it was a bad console, deal with it saturncuck.

Hard to say. If Power Stone wasn't on the dreamcast it would be an easy choice

>>6065809
A system like Jaguar was a failure. A system like Amiga CD-32 was a failure.
Sega Saturn was fine, it's just that Sony forcing their way into the console market was too much for poor Sega.
DC failed at the end, not because of a supposed "damage from Saturn", it was because fucking PS2 was coming out.

>>6065814
>historical revisionism
That's exactly what journalists and guys like Kalinske did, though.
Everybody back then knew that the reason Sega couldn't stay was because of PlayStation.
This whole "omg SOJ were, like, so eeevil! poor SoA guys they were innocent!" is the actual history revisionism from recent years.

>>6065816
>Sega Saturn was fine
1998 was one of the biggest years for gaming and they had just scraps left for the Saturn. Can you imagine being a die hard Sega fan and having to delude yourself that things were fine? Meanwhile everyone else were playing genre defining legendary titles on any other platform.

>>6065839
I'm just saying that actual failures were systems like Jaguar or Amiga CD-32.

>>6065773
FAWK YEA!

>>6065792
SOA killed Saturn

A little Dreamcast question, I plugged a controller into my player 1 port and now it doesn't work anymore. It works on the other ports so it doesn't appear to be the fuse as that should affect the other ports right?

>>6064684
If it had ignored what the PS1 was doing and gone absolutely balls deep into 2D and arcade ports it could have potentially been much better. Fuck what games were doing with 3D back then anyways. That shit needed to spend an entire gen more in the oven but PCs had Quake and Unreal shit coming down the tube and console makers felt like they had to try and match that.

>>6066314
It was dead on arrival. Even in your precious Japan, the Saturn didn't perform great sales-wise. And don't start blaming the PSX, Sega shouldn't have made the Saturn so retarded to develop on or so inferior at rendering 3D, and they shouldn't have botched their own games for it, like the poor VF or Daytona ports. The PSX only won because Sega fucked up so badly during the mid '90s, none of which has to do with SoA.

>>6066360
But the best game on Saturn is 3D.

>>6066363
>The PSX only won because Sega fucked up so badly during the mid '90s
Nah, you're delusional.
Even if the Saturn was easier to develop for (nice youtuber e-celeb parroting, BTW), Sony would have still forced their corporate dick through the market.

>>6066370
What like, Panzer Dragoon? It should have basically been a beefed up arcade board system if you ask me.

>>6066376
Panzer Dragoon II Zwei, to be more specific.

>>6066372
>stating facts is "parroting e-celebs"
Fuck off nigger. Any developer interview will tell you that they hated working with the hardware.

>Sony would have still forced their corporate dick through the market.
Probably, but they would've had a harder time doing so. Nintendo and Sega basically handed them free reign over the game industry.

>>6066382
Not real 3D, since the backgrounds are just sprite planes.
Saturncucks don't even understand their own games, lmao.

>>6066414
>Not real 3D, since the backgrounds are just sprite planes.
What backgrounds? Like the skyboxes? That's the same in every 3D game of the era.
However, the levels are actual 3D. I don't think you've actually played the game.

>>6066414
Deus Ex is a 2D game since the skybox is 2D. HURRDURDUR

>>6066406
>Any developer interview will tell you that they hated working with the hardware.
Which is something an e-celeb would use as argument.
Fuck whiny developers who want easy work. Nobody cared about what a bunch of western developers had to say about the Saturn back then.
>Probably, but they would've had a harder time doing so
Nah, just throw more money at it. Compared to the N64, the Playstation still did less actual profit for Sony, due to selling hardware at a loss, and the amount of money they burned on marketing, even doing huge marketing campaigns for games that weren't even their own (FF VII).
There was little Sega or Nintendo could do against the Sony juggernaut.

>>6066418
>What backgrounds?
Anything that wasn't a character model, basically. But don't take my word for it, look up how the VDP2 works, it's basically SNES Mode 7 on steroids.
Sega would use the same trick for the dirt roads in Sega Rally and the arenas in VF2 to get them to run more smoothly, rather than draw everything with polygons using the VDP1 chip.
>>6066427
Not talking about skyboxes, ya dingas.

>>6066484
>Not talking about skyboxes, ya dingas.
Then you haven't played PD Zwei.

>>6066429
>Which is something an e-celeb would use as argument.
Calling arguments you don't like "e-celeb" doesn't mean they aren't valid.

>Fuck whiny developers who want easy work.
Yeah, fuck having games getting made for my system! Just go make your games for a better designed platform instead!

>There was little Sega or Nintendo could do against the Sony juggernaut.
Shooting themselves in the foot certainly didn't help, though. People were pretty pissed at Sega over the 32X, Saturn, and the rest of the bullshit. Yeah, it's unlikely Sega could have beaten Sony, but they wouldn't have gone bankrupt and had to pull out of the console market like they did if they'd made smarter decisions.

>>6066505
See that surface the dragon is standing on? That's a 2D plane.

>>6066549
See everything else? Those are 3D meshes.

>>6066545
>Calling arguments you don't like "e-celeb" doesn't mean they aren't valid.
It's not that I don't like the argument, it's that it's an argument that only started being used in the e-celeb era.
Back then, most people just agreed that the reason Saturn fucked up was because it didn't have a 3D Sanic as a launch title, or ever.
Now, we know a 3D Sonic wouldn't have saved the system, and that Sonic Xtreme was going to be dogshit developed by some incompetent fucks.
>Yeah, fuck having games getting made for my system! Just go make your games for a better designed platform instead!
Good developers were able to use the Saturn's strengths, instead of complaining about its shortcomings. Mediocre developers just whined about how incompetent they were.
>Shooting themselves in the foot certainly didn't help, though.
Maybe, but the outcome wouldn't have been too different, Sony still took Sega's place, and took a good chunk of Nintendo's share too. PS had too much money behind it, "too big to fail".
As I said, PS did less profit for Sony than the N64 did for Nintendo, depite selling loads more. But profit wasn't Sony's goal, it was penetrating the market, and they did.

>>6064679
no, dreamcast is overrated but it's way better than a console that doesn't have pro skater 2, resident evil 2, hydro thunder and nfl blitz

hell even n64 got all these

>>6066414
>the backgrounds are just sprite planes.

the vdp2 rotating backgrounds were proper z-transformed, perspective correct bigass polygons (up to 4096x4096 size). You could have at most 2 and a half of them, but most games only used 1-1.5 since using the other one meant you had to give up every other background the chip could do.

I'm not sure if anything could render a single texture of that size until what, xbox 360?

>>6066314
>SOA killed Saturn

On the order of SOJ.

>>6066363
>Even in your precious Japan, the Saturn didn't perform great sales-wise.

It was record-selling (1 million units in something like 2 months), it sold so well that SOJ ordered SOA to drop everything and focus on the Saturn immediately, hence the surprise launch with no stock that destroyed the machine.

In fact in japan the machine sold so well, that Sega had to severally cut back on the amount of units it made, because they made it at a loss and the losses were mounting up way too fast. Hideki Sato confirmed this.

>>6066960
The same SoJ that promoted the Saturn like crazy the same time Bernie declared it "not the company's future" in the US, killing their current-gen hardware whilst begging for another console. Yeah I think this one's on America.

>>6067004
If the Saturn was so good, how come Sega wanted to replace it with the Dreamcast as quickly as possible, after barely 3 years of life? Blackbelt/Katana was being planned by SoJ long before Bernie made his comment. Also, Saturn's output in 1998 was embarrassing, even in Japan, mostly just ports and shovelware. So much for it "thriving" in its homeland.

>>6064770
HotD's downgrades were mostly to graphics. The port handles really well and is worth it if you have a Saturn and want to play 2 player co op with some of the best controllers ever designed on your TV instead of on your computer with mame and usb controllers.

Bernie was just being truthful and open with the public. Do you think SoJ actually wanted to keep that failed junk on life support much longer?

>>6067072
It was moderately supported up to 99 IN JAPAN.

>>6067072
https://segaretro.org/Category:1998_Saturn_games
https://segaretro.org/Category:1999_Saturn_games
Yeah no plenty of decent titles, now you're gonna do the subjective troll dance and say "Street Fighter Alpha 3? LMAO that game sucked it's not like the most accurate version with extra modes on Saturn or anything"

>>6067112
Yeah like I said, mostly ports and shovelware. Some stuff like PDS and Burning Rangers and Derp Fear stand out but it's not enough for an entire year of games. Even the N64 was getting more stuff in a year than the Saturn by that point. Sega knew the Saturn was dead and was getting ready to move onto the superior Dreamcast.

>>6067126
What games were shovelware?

>>6066350
tested the port with a multimeter?

>>6067090
>HotD
>controllers

>>6067072
They must have knew it that the Dreamcast will barely going for 2 years.

>>6066350
You're not supposed to plug in a controller while the Dreamcast is on.

>>6064684
what's the difference between power slave and exhumed? I thought the NA version was just called exhumed

>>6064752
Not only that, but also games that (in my opinion) have better multiplayer than the N64 (doesn't help that the Dreamcast and its format of choice are so compact that it makes carrying it around easier and without fears than the rather wide N64 and its cartridges that take even more space).
If you still prefer the N64 as the "Party Machine", more power to you but for me the Dreamcast will always get that title.

>>6068345
I figured that out now. Killed all ports except player 2. Now that's Sega design.