/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6060953
Americans could only play what they could get. Honestly the sister series was a lot better, especially if you wanted a more nonlinear game.

but muh insane clown villain

>>6060953
Well Europeans didnt get a proper final fantasy for a long time, so no shit Sherlock.

>>6060953
4 is great but 5 is nowhere close to the masterpiece 6 is, go away kid.

>>6061019
5 is incredibly fun to play (and replay) thanks to the job system, and the pace is tight as fuck.

>>6060953
It was a perfect game. The game was perfect. People tell me why is it such a perfect game? They say that. People say it.

>>6061001
WOOP WOOP

>>6060953
But it actually IS the best FF. Even most JApanese called it the best one and are thinking the same as most of the rest of the world that VII is actually the most overrated one.

>>6060953
I'm working my way through the Final Fantasies for the first time in no particular order and am currently playing FFVI, and I have to disagree with you. The story is great, the gameplay is solid, if a bit unbalanced, and the characters are absolutely phenomenal, which is really where the game's true strength lies. Barring a few, just about every party member you recruit is complex, important and likable. The game is also surprisingly bullshit/filler-free, at least up until the flying continent, which is where I am now. Pacing is fantastic, and nothing has felt like a chore, which is a problem I usually have with JRPGs, especially from Square. I liked FFVII and loved the atmosphere of Midgar, but so much of the front end of that game feels like filler, with all the cutscenes and minigames. FFVI, comparatively, has the pace of a whirlwind, and within the first few hours of gameplay has already sent you to tons of interesting areas and dropped a bunch of interesting and motivated characters into your party.

I tried playing this once before, many years ago, on the GBA port, which I also enjoyed very much, but lost interest once I got to the World of Ruin. I was very impatient with JRPGs back then and had done a poor job balancing my party, though, so I imagine it'll go smoother this time. It's still a shame that the game just about completely drops the narrative once you get to the World of Ruin, if only because it was so well done for the first half of the game.

>>6061178
>It's still a shame that the game just about completely drops the narrative once you get to the World of Ruin

Because that's the experience you feel in the world of ruin: despair

>>6060953
Murkin here. I agree. Especially about FF5. Great game.

>>6061119
This is not even true at all. FFVI is one of the least popular FFs in Japan

what is the definitive version of FF6?
i get indecisive with the patchs and sometimes when i patch it the game comes full of cheats like running and precise map.

>>6061295
The original SNES version

4 and 5 are the peak of the series.

>>6061178
>the gameplay is solid
Funny way to say worse than 4 out of 5 of its predecessors.

>>6061119
You're absolutely full of shit. The JAPANESE FF7 Remake commercial that was like, what, 13 minutes long? relays a grounded experience of the influence on the average JAPANESE gamer the original game had and was aimed at a JAPANESE audience. I have a hard time believing that something like that commercial was created with a majority of Japanese consumers believing the product and its source material to be overrated. Sorry anon, no dice.

>>6060953
Just replayed it recently, it holds up. Still one of the best JRPGs I'd say.

>>6061259
I hear this sometimes on American forums, but I know if it's actually true.
For one example, see this Famitsu best RPG poll from 2017:
https://www.rpgsite.net/news/5825-read-what-japanese-gamers-wrote-on-the-top-20-of-famitsu-s-best-rpg-poll
This has FFVI behind FFVII, but the other classic FF games don't even appear on the list.
This one from 2006 has it behind most of the classic series though:
https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Famitsu_Japan%27s_100_favorite_video_games

Some other polls ranking stuff from FF:
https://soranews24.com/2018/02/15/japanese-netizens-rank-the-top-10-most-memorable-final-fantasy-bosses/
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2013/01/japan-ranks-their-favorite-female-characters-from-the-final-fantasy-series/
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2012/12/japan-ranks-their-favorite-male-characters-from-the-final-fantasy-series/

Either way, FFVI is still a widely loved game in Japan. It's not as dominant there when it comes to top RPG rankings, but they had a lot more SNES RPGs to choose from.

>>6061319
I prefer the gameplay over the first five, personally. I enjoy replaying them all though.

>>6061295
SNES version with this patch
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4619/

>>6061053
Fucking magicite, how does it work?

>>6061119
[citation needed]

>>6061964

Not >>6061295, how is that different from this? https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1386/

>>6061119
This is some bullshit. Similar to "the prequels were always beloved until Red Leddit Media shat on them"

>>6060960
>the sister series

The what now?

>>6062120
DQ obviously

>>6061469
Obviously. This is a boring bait thread.

>>6061019
This.

>>6060953
>FF IV & V are better as well
nigga, you got some extreme nostalgia goin' on.

>>6061513
>backs up post with actual poll data
2295 people isn't a TON but the ordering of that list is still pretty interesting. I feel like VI has the most charming story, likable characters and the most visual appeal of all the 16 bit FFs but there are so many things working against it for me to like it.

> uneven difficulty
> arbitrary and obtuse secrets
> half baked mechanics that would require an insane amount of trial to figure out on our own without spending a hefty chunk of change on the Nintendo hotline.
> typical, weird ass JRPG story direction

I can only recommend this game in good faith now that the internet exists. Even the act of reading a walkthrough is exhausting and saps away any desire I had to finish it.

>>6062520
Acting as if Gamefaqs wasn't around when most people actually first played it on ZSNES.

>>6062523
not for me. Best friends older brother had it and we didn't get internet where I live until '01. We had to make do with a photocopied nintendo power article that barely had any useful information.

>>6061019
>masterpiece
>game barely functions to the point that even basic stats don't work
People who like FF6 don't even like video games.

>>6062009

This one >>6061964 is a proper and total retranslation. The other one does some decensoring but otherwise keeps the original SNES script.

>>6062520

It's a JRPG. Why are difficulty and "figure out" even on your list? It's extremely easy. You grind a bit, you solve the easy puzzles, you win. You don't need to uncover all the details. You need to know where the Fight command is.

>>6062587
False.

>>6062523
I first played it in the mid 90s.

>>6060953
Nah shut up OP. Best JRPG on the SNES. Yep, even better than Chrono Trigger.

>>6062587
^^^^ this

a smooth stress-free environment is extremely important to get through games asap. don't bog yourself down with retarded /pol/ shit like content

>>6061119
Japs worship IV
They don't care about VI that much

>>6062654
>don't bog yourself down with retarded /pol/ shit like content

>>6061513
>>6062520
Reminder that Japan voted Chrono Trigger as the number 1 game of the Heisei era. NUMBER ONE!
Take that Final Faggotry Cucks.

>>6060953
you dont have to like it but lmfao if you think 4 is better than 6

>>6062520
Yeah, some things in the list surprised me, like Suikoden II being that high at 7th. It's a really good game, but I didn't expect it to appear.

>arbitrary and obtuse secrets
I can see why someone might not like this, but that's something I love about the game. Stuff like having all your characters get swallowed by the Zone Eater to find Gogo is awesome to me. I didn't even bother getting the Paladin Shield last time I played, but I like that the secret exists.

FF6 has some peculiar issues and it’s not even the 2nd best retro FF for me, but it’s at least kind of wacky and original in terms of pacing, mechanics, premise, characters. 4 and 5 have terrible cookie cutter plots and characters, they didn’t expand on the NES games at all. Graphically they aren’t much better either. 4 has no unique combat options, and 5 is the worst JRPG that features jobs, and it doesn’t even have the excuse of being the first, even in its own series.

>>6062753
>4 has no unique combat options
Are you stupid or what?
Even as someone who hasn't played much FF games I can tell you that 4 introduced the ATB system. How in the fuck did 4 not expand on the NES games?

>>6062760
ATB doesn’t really change the experience in any meaningful way, but what I was actually referring to is just the characters and their skills. Each character pretty much just has one thing they’re good at and you just do that thing in every battle, every turn.

>>6062772
>ATB doesn’t really change the experience in any meaningful way
You're wrong but ok.

>>6062772
>ATB doesn’t really change the experience in any meaningful way
Sure it does, it makes it worse.

>>6062787
It would if the games were challenging, maybe. As it is either system just basically amounts to everyone takes turns hitting each other. Maybe in ATB someone fast gets an extra turn for every 5 or 10 of someone else’s turns, but this isn’t typically a feature you have to work to manipulate other than knowing Haste Good, Slow Bad. Now if the games WERE challenging, being quick on the draw with selecting your moves and upping your speed with an accessory instead of like, Strength, might make just enough of a difference to help you squeak by. But as it is, if you are paying attention to turn order or micromanaging your menu-selecting efficiency you are effectively powergaming.

>>6062794
The challenge has nothing to do with anything.
ATB completely changes the feel of the gameplay.
That alone is a huge change in and of itself.

>>6062797
It doesn't really change the mechanics. Until Chrono Trigger there was no point in every waiting so as soon as your turn game up you would just go on the spot. And the enemies really just aren't dynamic enough to where you have to think on your feet on a meaningful level.

>>6062808
Let's be honest you don't play Final Fantasy and in general story-focused JRPG's like this for the mechanics.

>>6062120
The other long running Squaresoft series that is about to have its 30th anniversary.

>>6062808
Did you play Final Fantasy IV? Literally the first fucking boss with the mist dragon that phases into its solid and gas form.

>>6061019
5 has the best class system a JRPG has ever had. It is untouchable.

>>6062628

Yeah like I said, you solve the easy puzzles.

>>6062654

You'll get 85% of the content in most JRPGs by just playing normally. You'll get a super-easy experience in most non-ancient JRPGs by playing in any way whatsoever short of deliberately crippling yourself somehow. The smooth, stress-free part is unavoidable by an ordinary player.

"ASAP" is not relevant either. I said "grind" remember? Grinding is a timesink. The games are not short. They are easy.

>>6063120
Always loved how Saga took from The Dark Tower and Frontier took from Flash Gordon.

>>6063123
That's only one instance and it's still not dependent on ATB being meaningful. You could just defend or heal or whatever else like if this was a normal turn based game. The only thing the mist dragon does is make you wait for time not strategy.

>>6063120

But King's Knight already had its 30th anniversary.

Maybe you were thinking of the Densetsu no Rad Racer series?? (If so, you were still mistaken; the original Rad Racer is also more than 30 years old.)

>>6065059

Speaking of King's Knight - I've never played FFV, but there's no way its job system is better than the deep customization afforded by just Kid Thief 'Toby' ALONE. Honestly I think that you FFV fans are really out of your depth here.

>>6061019
t. storyfag

>>6065082

>no way to know you have a sub optimal party for a boss encounter
>each failed attempt costs you tons of progress
>you just gotta know what to do :o)

The game is a mess without a walkthorugh or at the very least, savestates

>>6066127
He's referring to SaGa, but he's an autist who refuses to mention the series by name for some reason.

>>6066381

There is one and only one trick boss, and you die in the fight once or twice. So okay you might have to run through ONE short optional dungeon two extra times, in a game that features many dungeons. It's not a big deal.

Unless I'm remembering something wrong. But in that case I'm only making a mistake in an argument against somebody who actually thinks a story-focused Final Fantasy game needs a walkthrough. That is like arguing with a kitten. You can basically say whatever you want; you're talking to yourself more than anything else.

King's Knight now, THERE is a game that warrants a walkthrough.

>>6066398
You are more than welcome to opt out of this thread but is says alot when you have to compare VI to absolute trash to make it appear good. Its an overrated game with a few strong qualities. I put it squarely in the bottom 25% of the series.

>>6063120
No no that's 20th anniversary and it's in a bit over 2 years.

Itt: a bunch of baby zoomers who dunno how to play games.

A discussion about the 'difficulty' of any final fantasy is retarded. Theyre all mash fight except a handful of boss battles that MIGHT take a second try IF your party sucks ass. I beat it on a cartridge as a nine year old with no walkthroughs.

Also FFIV is objectively the most overrated game EVER. V at least has the job system but the plots of both IV and V are paperthin soap opera shit and the world and art direction is generic boring ass fantasy. VI was the first one to have a really unique world and coherent darker design and art style that set it apart from generic fantasy. If you were around when it came out you know it was mind blowing. And Terra's story is way deeper than anything in IV or V. Hell, support characters llike Ceres have more interesting arcs than the main storylines of those earlier games.

>>6060953
>by americans
Well I didn't even play it so there.

>people actually have trouble with a baby-tier JRPG

>>6066430

I wasn't trying to make it appear good. I don't care about that argument one way or the other. I was solely defending the claim that it is a very very easy game with hardly any tough puzzles in it.

The King's Knight stuff was just silliness. Sometimes we joke and jape here.

>>6060953
Youre right. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were better.

>>6065059
Dragon Quest did it better.

>>6062628
>screencap from fag version of the game
That's an optional boss anyway. Granted almost everything is technically optional in the WoR but that tower in particular is just there for loot and a place to level magic without gaining XP. There's no story for beating it, you just get an item that lets you dual-cast already overpowered magic.

>>6066047
Many bosses in the game have gimmicks like that. The only thing making that one unique is that it's so blatantly obvious how to deal with it, because it's an introductory boss intended to demonstrate the mechanics.

The octopus slows down as you deal damage, making damage done early in the battle more valuable.

The mombomb blows up on a timer.

Kainazzo has 3 different phases that can be manipulated to some degree by the player (his elemental vulnerabilities change based on state as well). The challenge is to land a lightning bolt after he gathers water but before he hits you with the wave. (Of course you can just overlevel and hold down A also)

Valvalis has two phases that can be modified by the player (invulnerable in spin mode until it's stopped by Kain's jump, an attack with a notable delay requiring follow-up attacks to be timed effectively).

Rubicante has two phases where his vulnerabilities change.

Asura can be killed without using Wall if you manage to time a sequence of attacks to deal enough damge before she Cure4's herself (granted, this dynamic tends to be more obvious when playing Free Enterprise than the OG game).

Leviatan has a timed state change. He opens up to slam you with waves then closes up to use ice magic. This one doesn't lead to a lot of strategy the fight is mostly a DPS race, but the state change serves as a warning helping potentially make split second decisions about whether to attack or heal.

Odin has a state change, he raises his sword to do his mega damage attack and during this phase you have a chance to instakill him with a lightning bolt (of any strength).

Bahamut has a timer to meganuke.

Wyvern fires meganuke as his opening attack, meaning that you need to be fucking fast if you want a chance to block it.

Zeromus has no timed state changes (he changes based on hp remaining), but managing ATB during this fight is critical. You often have to estimate how much time you have before the next big bang.

>>6067450
It's depressing to see an anon try so hard yet fail so badly

>>6060953
I had just started a run of this game a few weeks ago, and I was just about to get to the World of Ruin when my cartridge lost the save because I installed a shitty fucking battery holder that lost its connection when the cart got jiggled, so now I have to start over.

But I have to say, while I was mad at first, I'm not really bothered now. Everything in the World of Balance part of the game is fucking brilliantly paced and I'm looking forward to playing it again. You're constantly on the move through new locations with interesting objectives, and the way the party keeps splitting up and rejoining is fantastic and actually gives you a reason to switch to other characters that you might have just sidelined, and all of the characters you recruit are compelling and relevant, which makes you actually want to use them, regardless of their abilities. None of the dungeons in the first half of the game are tedious or annoying, either.

Compare to FFVII, which is an absolute nightmare of bad pacing for almost the entire first disc. Midgar has great atmosphere and worldbuilding, but it's bogged down with so much dialogue and mini-games that it becomes tedious as fuck. Sometimes you go over an hour without getting into a single battle or using all the materia weapons you've been equipping, to the point where it doesn't even fucking matter until you get out of Midgar, and even once you do, you make it to Kalm in time for the mother of all exposition dumps, and then it's on to Junon for even more mini-games and dialogue. The game doesn't even really get out of its own way until you get to Costa Del Sol, and even then you quickly stumble upon the Golden Saucer which dumps more minigames and shenanigans on you. I love the game, but goddamn it's incredibly unfocused and has abysmal pacing.

Not that anyone asked about a comparison between VI and VII, but I played both recently so I thought I'd share.

>>6060953
4 and 5 are great but people who think they're better than 6 have the worst opinions living in america right now. i'm not sure how anyone can live under the same roof as them or even share a laugh with these vermin.

>>6069678
FFIV probably has the best bosses in the series. The Zeromus fight is unmatched in challenge and atmosphere. The music sets the tone so well.

>>6066047
>>6069678
kek so you are just shitposting

>>6071684
V is easily the most fun game in the series. Fuck everybody who holds story in such high esteem, it stops mattering once you've completed the game. I've only played VI twice and that's enough for a lifetime, meanwhile I replay V yearly, always coming up with some goofy idea for a new playthrough. The game is incredibly open-ended when it comes to mechanics and self-made challenges.

>>6061996
Lost

>>6060953
I played FFV first before FFVI and FFVI felt like a romhack of V.

>>6062009
>>6062563
That's not entirely correct. TWUE IS a complete retranslation, it just tries to keep the spirit and some of the goofy Woolseyisms of the original script, but is otherwise arguably the most accurate translation patch I'm aware of. It also retranslates item names and the like.

>>6061295
The GBA translation is -the- most accurate translation of FF6 out there, but even with all of the patches (original sound patch, color patch, etc.) it's still overall not as great of an experience as the SNES version. The PC port uses the GBA translation as well, but it looks putrid. The overwhelming majority of SNES translation patches are, in fact, inaccurate. They tend to rewrite it to sound nicer, or to be exceedingly literal, but in most cases, they end up inaccurate. For example, the "Relocalization" patch, which claims to be based off of the GBA version, actually keeps many of the inaccuracies of the original SNES translation.

>>6061964
This claims to be based off of the LoL analysis, which is a good thing, but it also claims it doesn't follow the GBA script and is instead a rewrite in large part, which is a little concerning.

>>6073445
The PC version is funny because it doesn't just use the script from the GBA game; it contains the whole game ROM, and references it for practically everything, then replaces the graphics and sound from that asset by asset.
While it's understandable to want to replace the incredibly sub-par audiovisual assets and presentation of the GBA version, what they replaced the visuals with is complete eyerape. Also understandable to not want to emulate it directly, due to the slowdowns from doing that accurately or the trouble in working out and debugging overclocking.

At least one of the fan translation patches is incredibly well known for translating 俺様 as Mr. Me. Which is, quite obviously, just plain wrong and interruptive; even a fucking retard wouldn't call itself Mr. Me, nonetheless a pompous egocentric individual.

For better or worse, I prefer TWUE for the translations, bug fixing, and audiovisuals. It's the best option for all 3.
Woolseyisms are somewhat different from the average over-localization, like Working Designs or several older VN translations; they're not political bullshit pushing some agenda or mockery, they're just simple storytelling flare.

The only real downside is that it doesn't have the newer content.
No super espers adding 2 speed per level or 3x the HP/MP or whatever. No extra dungeon/scripts. No level reset glitch to fuck about with. No continuing after the end boss with new fun weapons. No beastiary (Yet? There was discussion on adding one a while back; alongside the existing Music Mode patch).
Those are some pretty huge downsides if you care primarily about being hardcore post-game. But I don't think that or the possibly desirable translation of GBA onward are worth sacrificing the bug-fixing or audiovisuals personally.
Certainly worth considering, at least.

>>6073495
>even a fucking retard wouldn't call itself Mr. Me

While unlikely, it’s possible they were They Might Be Giants fans.

>>6073495
I wish there was a hack for the SNES version adding all the extra GBA content.

>>6073495
>The PC version is funny because it doesn't just use the script from the GBA game; it contains the whole game ROM, and references it for practically everything, then replaces the graphics and sound from that asset by asset.
I didn't know this, that's hilarious. I still have no fucking idea what they were thinking when they decided to give the game that horrendous visual style. Squeenix just can't fucking seem to get remasters right (although, if I'm not mistaken, I think they've been outsourcing the work on all of them to random, no name studios).

But yeah, TWUE is my general go-to/recommendation as well. It's a nice, complete package for the most part (bugfixes, uncensoring, add-ons like running if you want, etc.), cleans up the translation very nicely and accurately (to my understanding, not only is it largely derived from the LoL analysis, the fellow that did the LoL analysis went over the script himself), and it retains a lot of the silly lines that have become so memorable in video game pop culture, so it's good for people that have never played FF6 before. Granted, I still think the GBA translation is superior, but not worth the overall downgrade, as you said.

I did briefly look over >>6061964, and while it passes the eyeball test I tend to use to gauge a translation (the "Imperial guards are pursuing her as we speak" vs. "The city guards are pursuing her as we speak", followed by the line about Narshe standing up to the Empire, almost every fan translation gets this wrong), it does seem like it's a little bit ad-hoc, so I dunno about it.

>>6060953
Masterpiece. Music, story, characters. I play it once every few years.

>>6061019
FFV GBA with the SNES audio patch is so good.

>>6074828
Not even close. Nothing can ever truly fix the fact that the GBA's sound system is total shit.

>>6074834
Ehh, sounds fine to me emulated. The GBA content I couldn't play without.

>>6074842
Personally, I find the patch actually makes the sound worse, because now you've got too much audio trying to get through a shitty speaker at once and reducing it to a muddy mess.

>>6074852
I don't understand, are you playing it on real hardware? There is a lot for audio on mGBA now. The snes audio sounds like snes audio.

>>6074828
It's not though. The patch's audio, while reverting to the SNES composition, is drastically worse in technical quality.

It's not the speaker or headphone jack or anything like that that's the problem, it's the sampling. There is no fixing the 16kHz (or 18kHz? I don't remember) audio sampling for GBA output. Which is how all emulators handle audio too.
The patch also turns it to mono, rather than stereo, in an attempt to fix the GBA's slowdowns, which it only helps but not alleviates.

There is no way to make GBA audio, while playing, match SNES quality. Simple as is.

Not to mention the lesser output resolution, or the fact that there's incredibly jarring portraits in the dialogue.

>>6073547
>(although, if I'm not mistaken, I think they've been outsourcing the work on all of them to random, no name studios).

Hilariously, or not, the woman who did all the "chibi" sprites (i.e. ingame player character sprites etc.) for the original releases is the same person who did the far uglier modern iOS ports we have now.

So as far as the visual puke goes, its the same old blood, so there's no boogeyman to blame this time around.

>>6074865
Whatever, Necromancer is to good.

>>6074865
You can change the sample rate and use various filters tho

>>6074904
That's output sample rate and scaling filters, not internal sample rate or PWM filtering.
There's a big difference between those.
>>6074898
>to
Well, whatever. It's absolutely low quality. It does not and cannot sound good. It can only sound tolerable enough for whatever crappy standards and audio hardware you have.
The only thing it's good at is composition; from copying the SNES version.

Just play the SNES for a few minutes on either bSNES or Snes9x >=1.52 for LLE audio. I'd be incredibly surprised at any inability to hear the difference.