/vr/ - Retro Games

I never played Xenogears, everyone says the second half is shit so why should I?

Xenogears is fantastic but it didn't feel like I was playing a game. It's more of a movie than a game

>>6035270
there are no mandatory games you stupid ass

>>6035348
Don't play Xenosaga if you feel that's a bad thing.

>>6035341
If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too? Xenogears is a great game if your into mechs and the golden age of sgaure rpgs. If you don't care for any of those then don't play it. Yes it's ambitious and yes there is a lot of reading the plot on the 2nd disc. But you should really play it for yourself to find out if you like it. If you enjoy the first 4 or 5 hours then you will enjoy the whole game.

What are the good Jrpg indications for nes / n64 / Windows ?

>>6035356
>If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too?
If they did it because there's fire closing by and there's water right under, fuck yeah I would. Second CD is fucking dogshit.

>>6035270
I say anyone who has played a few FF games and at least one or two SRPGs is good enough to enter jrpg discussions

>>6035369
>NES
FF3
>N64
The Quest 64
>Windows
Those are all western rpgs

>>6035356
>If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too?
It depends on why they're jumping of the bridge.
>Xenogears is a great game if your into mechs and the golden age of sgaure rpgs.
I do not care for mechs.

Are any of the classic “Tales” games worth playing? Thinking about going for the PS1 version of Destiny but I don’t really know if any of them are worth playing.

>>6035432
Tales of Destiny 2 (Eternia) is one of my absolute favorite games. I say go for that one.

2 types of people: those who liked Disk 2 and those who didn't. Latter aren't worth mentioning.

Playing Xenogears can possibly make you a better person.

>>6035451
Gotcha, downloading it now.

>>6035270
Played and beat this game twice, bought the OST and still listen to "Flight" to this day to psyche myself some days on the way to work. It's one of the most incredible JRPGs I've ever played, even if the combat system is kind of repetitive and gets stale. The story is incredible, as are (most of) the characters. Art direction is spot on and although the localization is a little weird at times the dialogue is actually really good overall. I envy anyone who is about to play this game for the first time.

>>6035270
none

>>6035369
honestly i can't think of any truly great jrpgs for those systems

>>6035432
play vesperia even though it's not retro

>>6035350
It's hyperbole, methinks.

To say mandatory games don't exist, maybe on colleges offering meme degrees on video game history they do.

>>6035270
Chrono Trigger. Xenogears is contrariancore.
>>6035550
>methinks
Jump off a bridge.

Xenogears is shit.

Anyway, OP, for me it's FF Tactics.

>>6035557
>tactics
>jrpg
What did he meme by this???

>>6035558
Retard.

>>6035556
Thou art a faggot, methinks.

>>6035576
It's a tactical rpg, which is an entirely separate genre.

>>6035270
It's not a single game, it's a series.
If you aren't at the point where you've played enough JRPGs to understand that Dragon Quest is objectively the pinnacle of the genre, you haven't played enough JRPGs yet.

>>6035610
I'd say SMT is tied with DQ, and both are second to Wizardry.

>>6035610
I'd say "foundation" is a better word than pinnacle.

>>6035629
I guess it depends on what exactly you're talking about WRT SMT. Just 1 and 2? Or also Megami Tensei 1 and 2 on NES? Do you include if... or some of the spinoffs? While I do value SMT 1 pretty highly (haven't played 2) I feel that its overall balance kinda misses the mark for me. However, its storytelling and atmosphere are top tier.

>>6035634
All that means is that you haven't played enough JRPGs.

>>6035629
Games weren't even playable until gen 4.

>>6035610
I literally cannot tolerate that series, and my favorite series is on the other side of the coin from DQ.

>>6035646
Just keep playing JRPGs. That having been said, what's your favorite series?

>>6035652
SaGa.

>>6035635
>All that means is that you haven't played enough JRPGs
I've certainly played over 100. How many is enough?

>>6035674
Yeah I kinda thought so. SaGa is great. It's the only one that can compare IMO.

>>6035674
>>6035686
I only played the Gameboy ones but they're pretty great especially 2

>>6035270
Shit game is shit.

I think it's obviously Dragon Quest III, the quintessential JRPG.

Dragon Quest is the ideal litmus test for who has no taste in JRPGs. Some people like JRPGs for the plot, some people like JRPGs for the complex gameplay, and some people like JRPGs because seeing numbers go up while a bland hero's journey plays out in the background makes them happy. The third group can safely be ignored when it comes to topics about JRPGs.
If someone likes plot, you can have a rousing discussion about which JRPGs have had the most thrilling plots or well-written characters or so on. If someone likes complex gameplay, you can have a nice discussion about which JRPG challenged you the most or which was the most mentally invigorating to play.
If someone just likes numbers going up, then there's no discussion to be had. They don't put thought into the games they're playing. Main character? Might as well be silent. Plot? Don't be too complex, they'll lose track of what's going on. Complex gameplay? They'll grind to skip it, or complain if they can't. Just plop a silent Hero on screen so they can spam default attacks and giggle as their level goes up. They'll even rave about how they're the "pinnacle of JRPGs", because for some reason stripping out everything that makes JRPGs good - the capacity for more elaborate plots and the complexity of the gameplay - is a peak to them and not a nadir.

So yeah. If someone says DQ is their favoruite JRPG series or anything like that, you know to ignore them. I have literally never met anyone who loves DQ and has good taste. At least when Final Fantasy fucks up (FF8) you end up with a fascinating game that's worth talking about. DQ manages to be consistently boring, lifeless, repetitive, and so on. Literally games for children that, logically enough, manchildren latch onto.

About to beat KH2 Critical and I’m probably gonna end my playthrough of that series there for a while as after it becomes pretty rough around the edges..

For the next series I get off my backlog should I make it:
Ys
Tales of
Wild Arms
Mana

I’m pretty conflicted. They all seem equally good and interesting.

>>6035505

amen brother!

Did you watch Resonant Arc's video on it?
https://youtu.be/noqAAhRSBX8
Honestly I can't remember much about it but it made a quite strong case to play it nevertheless

I love watching these kinds of videos even though I won't play the games anytime soon, I still can't justify a Vita

Dragon Quest sounds awesome, but I absolutely hate Akira Toriyama's art style. It was only passable in Chrono Trigger. It's a damn shame.

>>6035826
>Dragon Quest sounds awesome
I can only imagine how someone would feel after going into DQ thinking it will be "awesome", only to end up playing a total snoozefest.

>>6035341
Did you watch Resonant Arc's video on it?
https://youtu.be/noqAAhRSBX8
Honestly I can't remember much about it but it made a quite strong case to play it nevertheless

I love watching these kinds of videos even though I won't play the games anytime soon, I still can't justify a Vita

>>6035816
Get a Vita.
My hacked Vita has become one of my favorite consoles of all time and the emulation is so good it actually has me playing and beating my backlog.

>>6035369
The only good JRPG on the N64 that I know of is Paper Mario. Quest 64 is also a thing but it I haven't heard anything good about it. I've heard Ogre Battle 64 is good, though, if you like SRPG's

It's odd to see multiple people being pretentious about Dragon Quest in a single conversation.

>>6035270
ah yes the game which literally forgoes the central point of jrpgs, the actual journey, for edgy nihilist visual novel bullshit

for the record i don't hate the game but it's far from the 'peak of the genre' that the fanboys hype it up as

>>6035781
see this guy hasn't played enough jrpgs

>>6035857
it's always amusing to see people write long ass paragraphs that say absolutely nothing of value

>>6035798
Oh, also Star Ocean 1&2

>>6035836
Oh I hear you man, I got a hacked 3DS and I love that shit, I just want a Vita to play ps1 games with that amazingly fitting display http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7fCTHu99bk&t=14m50s

The fact I don't own one is what's keeping me from enjoying the ps1 RPGs I haven't played (which is everything but FFVII), but the fact that I can emulate ps1 on pretty much everything makes it hard to justify it considering my personal finances, I'm just waiting for a good deal I guess.

>>6035867
He's right though. Name one thing DQ does well.

>>6035878
there's no point arguing w/ dummies who write paragraphs and paragraphs of why they're objectively right esp when they lack the familiarity with the genre to understand what makes dq good
people who shit on dq typically turn right back around and say extreme cringe shit like "legend of dragoon was a great game specifically because of the additions system" lmfao
basically what im saying is dq's greatness speaks for itself & there is nothing for me to defend

>>6035875
vita is great with cfw and there's a shitton of jrpgs in the psp library as well. i'd get one while you can though as prices will only get steeper

>>6035781
ultimately this post owns in terms of "jesus christ i don't know what im talking about my fav jrpg is uhhhhh chrono trigger" but this part in particular
>stripping out everything that makes JRPGs good
just really hits the spot for me god DAMN lmfao this is the first thing you need to reexamine before you can start understanding what makes the franchise good - what exactly does dq remove and why is that a bad thing? thats ur hint for the day

>>6035867
If this isn't a pasta then I appreciate he took the time to express his thoughts

>>6035826
It's not like I dislike Toriyama's style but I can't stop thinking of dragon ball every time I see DQ, it's so distracting. You can't tell me that the hero of the last one isn't adult Trunks

ughhhh that lazy fucking dragon ball look that dragon quest has... fuck! im tired of the mc looking like fucking goku! for god's sake!

seriously though, the dumbasses that complain about this just want to drop the fact that they know "hey that's the dragon ball guy." it's the "DID YOU KNOW SUPER MARIO BROS 2 IS ACTUALLY" of jrpgs.

>>6035886
Nice list of ad hominem with no points.
>>6035867
>>6035881
Likewise, nice ad hominem. I dunno why you are all mocking my well-constructed essay with biting insight while collectively shitting yourselves and offering no rebuttals. Defense of the braindead plot? Crickets. Defense of the braindead gameplay? Crickets. Points made in its defense? Crickets, just insulting the person you disagree with because you have nothing else to say. Yeah, very compelling posts, really selling your love of DQ and convincing it's a good game.

Also, note how all three of you aren't using capitals, no punctuation, etc. Not exactly reflective of all you being a bright and cultured bunch. Average DQ fan in a nutshell, everyone: just shouting "ur (sic) wrong!" without any further thought on the subject.

>>6035910
2 of those posts are me but that should be pretty clear. That having been said I know much better than to seriously argue with somebody on /vr/ about whether or not my preferred children's toy has merit. You haven't made any points for me to defend against, though, and that's where you seem to be confused. All you have to say about the game could be summed up as "it's bad." "The gameplay is bad," "there isn't enough story for me," "you need to defend liking this." There's simply not anything worth responding to: you clearly like to make generalizations about the intelligence of the average DQ fan, yet you very clearly don't know enough about JRPGs or DQ itself to make any sort of worthwhile statement about either.
The reason I enjoy Dragon Quest is because it is everything that a JRPG needs to be good, and it shows restraint. While other games try to appeal via flashier graphics, or by giving the player "something to do" during battles such as timed button presses (which can be extremely intrusive and slow down the pacing of the game in question to a slog such as with Legend of Legaia, Legend of Dragoon, and certain parts of Xenogears), Dragon Quest understands that battles should be quick and snappy. While battles against a weaker enemy in DQ will take half a round, those games will be much longer, and in the end you're spending more time watching animations than you are making choices.

>>6035929
Speaking of making choices, did you know that it's a choice to grind or not to grind? While you can argue that the NES versions of DQ necessitate grinding (particularly DQ1 and 2), you also need to understand that by making smart use of buffs, debuffs, and status effects (yes, these actually do have effects), you can defeat enemies at much lower levels than you'd expect. Not only that, but generally you'll be able to find strong enough gear just by exploring rather than grinding just outside of town (think of how many jokes you've seen about "haha I spent hours grinding to buy this sword only to immediately find a better one!" yeah now apply that to what I just said).
As for other stuff, music is subjective so I won't write much, but in my personal opinion, Dragon Quest has got great OSTs every single time, and its theme is iconic.
The open aspect of the world lets you wander around just enough that you can feel lost, but never like it's impossible to figure out where to go, and sometimes there are some great nifty puzzles (like sneaking into Edinbear in DQ3 using a hide herb).
Now, I won't say that DQ is necessarily perfect. It's my favorite, and I tend to call it "the best," but it's mostly to get a rise out of people who will get mad the moment they read something positive about the series. I do generally recommend playing updated versions for casual players (you!) though the originals should be experienced and do have merit to this day for certain audiences (me!).

In short: lmfao stfu dumbass

Chrono Trigger, Earthbound/Mother 2, Dragon Quest I & III, FF VI & VII, Pokemon Red/Blue, Phantasy Star 1, Final Fantasy Legend/SaGa.

Limited the list to turn-based combat games that aren't SRPG/TRPG.

>>6035929
>>6035930
First of all, thank you for actually writing a post instead of just wanking yourself off.
It seems that your issue is that you are attacking what is known as a "straw man". First, I never said that DQ has grinding, only that a DQ fan would grind to avoid complex gameplay in a better JRPG. That's admittedly just an insult and not a point in itself, but still, it's not a critique of DQ itself. Second, you primarily attack PS1 games (by far the JRPGs with the slowest battle animations in history) which reflects a poor argument since you're highlighting the worst counterexamples to your point instead of the best (since doing so would weaken your position). Third, you repeatedly assume that I have no experience with JRPGs when I have played over 100, just as that other anon has.

So basically, you kind of flail around attacking strawmen. Not great, but alright.

First, I notice that you entirely don't talk about the story. This is because I think pretty much anyone with a brain (and I mean that literally) can agree that DQ plots fluctuate between being barebones and being outright boring. The one good thing you can say about DQ's writing is that it lacks so much in substance that it avoids being flat-out painful, which is hardly a compliment. The only thing a DQ fan can do when presented with this is ignore it like you have.
At best someone can point to DQ5, which probably has the best story in the entire series, but is nonetheless a very bland game that has nothing resembling good themes, characters, dialogue, etc. It's praised entirely for the few setpieces that stick out to a child's mind. The protagonist's father, for instance, is a non-character with zero meaningful personality or dialogue, but his death sticks out to children because it's flashy. Most of the setpieces are like this - lacking substance, but memorable for children.

>>6035930
Second, your defense of the gameplay is weak. It rests entirely on dunking on PS1 games with slow animation times, which are admittedly not great in that department, but are ultimately a small slice of the JRPG pie. Most JRPGs aren't that slow, and emulators/modern ports allow for speedup to remove that complaint (Having recently replayed Xenogears on 2x speed, the button presses were still cake to hit). But really, this whole aside is missing the point. Yes, a lot of PS1 JRPGs and really JRPGs a lot of JRPGs in general have boring gameplay that dips into tedium. Dragon Quest is not unique in being a JRPG with boring gameplay. But generally, good JRPGs compensate for their gameplay with the writing: good characters, good stories, and so on. DQ doesn't. It's gameplay stands alone.

So let's talk about gameplay focused JRPGs On a pure gameplay basis, DQ is pathetic compared to JRPGs with a focus on gameplay. You mention buffs, debuffs, and status effects, but it hardly takes a genius to throw up a defense buff and a defense debuff before spamming default attacks. There's not a lot of thought present there, and it's only necessary on a couple of boss encounters anyway - not mob fights, which descend into button mashing. Despite what you may have assume, I have actually played close to every DQ game, 1-9, stopping at 10. They have universally had braindead gameplay that consisted of button mashing even without grinding. There are brief moments where you might want to use some buffs or status effects, but again, that's not exactly the pinnacle of gameplay.

>>6035930
As a recent example, the other day I was playing an indie JRPG titled 玉露の続き物. It had such elements as: damage monsters do permanently lowering max HP in a dungeon, a 4-MP system where you restore MP based on your total HP at the start of a turn, a web of offensive/defense skills requiring varying amounts of MP, a party of 2 characters selected from 5, and so on. Each random encounter was a threat, due to the permanent max HP damage, and required a delicate balance of skill usage to avoid taking damage. The literal first dungeon of this game was harder than any DQ final dungeon or boss in any game in the entire series. Which isn't to say this is the hardest game ever made or anything (it's literally just a random game I saw on 5ch and played for a bit a few days ago), it's just to say how pitifully easy DQ is.

When stacked up against games with good plot, DQ fails because it has the thematic depth of a puddle with a silent protagonist throwing a wet towel on every event he's invovled in. Even the DQ hailed as having the best story in the series, 5, is barely on the level of a fantasy book for a five year old. When stacked up against games with complex gameplay, DQ fails because at best you need to toss out some debuffs on a boss in between default attack spamming your way to victory. It's not engaging on any real level except feeding into the skinner box of seeing numbers go up.

>>6035930
Which is really what it comes down to. Note that I never said that DQ gameplay is "bad". I call it various insults like boring and braindead, but I understand the "good" that people see in it - that is, the satisfying feeling of numbers going up. The warm feelings of going on an adventure with no challenge, no stakes, and guaranteed victory. I get why people like them. But it's for those same reasons I wouldn't trust a DQ fan's taste as far as I can throw them. They are attracted to easy games, boring games, games for children with no depth. That's fine for them, but fuck me if I'm going to consider them cultured or having anything close to good taste. And fuck me if playing hundreds of JRPGs with great stories and gameplay is going to lead me to somehow conclude that a braindead baby series for babies is the pinnacle of the genre.

In short: lmfao stfu dumb baby

>>6035270
Watching jarpigs argue about which are their best games or series feels like observing children discuss which mud pies are the best.

>>6035596
It's Japanese, it's an RPG, it's a JRPG. Anyway, SRPGs are the best JRPGs. FFT has godlike gameplay compared to shit like CT.

>>6036008
There are better JRPGs than DQ in the gameplay department, but a lot of them aren't retro. Take Etrian Odyssey for example - it's basically everything someone like me wants in a JRPG. Light on story, make your own party, explore dungeons, fight tough turn based battles (on heroic, EO difficulty is pretty tough), get loot, customize your dudes. EO gameplay blows DQ out of the water, and yet I still love DQ. Why? It's great BECAUSE it's simple. It's like comfort food, or cuddling with a chubby girl. Sometimes I just want to relax and get comfy with a game and not have to try so hard.

That said, Phantasy Star IV is pretty damn great and feels more like a souped up DQ than an FF game

>>6035532
I would not recommend Vesperia. I played through half of it recently and it just seemed so lifeless and bland compared to others...i didnt like any of the characters...they were just too one dimensional. I was really disappointed because it had such raving reviews and I love Tales of Games.

>>6035387
I like FF3, there's something magical about it that most RPG don't have, but I would never recommend the NES version to anyone, it's a very frustrating game to play even compared to FF1
The 3D remake fixes most of its issues

DQ fags are like shitbox car owners. "So what, it is able to drive, what more do you want from a car?"

Obsessed.

>>6036337
>dark souls is japanese and an rpg therefore it's a jrpg
Oh no...

Assuming Pokemon games don't count as JRPGs, there is only one "mandatory" JRPG, i.e. one that had some noticeable impact on mainstream culture: FF7. Even normalfags recognize Cloud. The rest is niche crap for losers.

>>6035341
Xenogears is overrated as all fuck. The translation is poor, the graphics are ugly and the combat is shallow. This thread should really be about the JRPGs that are so massively overrated that you shouldn't listen to anyone's opinion on the genre if they genuinely think they're great games. Pic related is my contribution.

>>6035270
Chrono Trigger is literally the only mandatory one, everything else is flawed or overhyped shit.

/thread

does anyone else still play their favorite playstation era games constantly but when they try to play a classic they've never played before they find its too dated and can't get into it?

>>6036491
>This thread should really be about the JRPGs that are so massively overrated that you shouldn't listen to anyone's opinion on the genre if they genuinely think they're great games.

OBSCURE GOOD

>>6036442
Dark Souls is a JRPG.

>>6036528
You think Xenogears, a big budget RPG for the Playstation by Square, is obscure? Xenogears is not obscure. Just because it's not Final Fantasy VII, a game that many people who don't even play video games know about, does not mean it's obscure. Everyone who has any interest in JRPGs on the Playstation 1 or games Square made in the 90's has heard of Xenogears.

This is a good example of an obscure JRPG from the 90's. (Blue Forest Story: Kaze no Fuuin for the 3DO and Playstation, 1996)

>>6035387
I played and enjoyed ff3 several times before the ps2 came out but these days I can't stomach it anymore. FF5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>6035557
play tactics ogre one vision

>>6036491
>JRPGs that are so massively overrated that you shouldn't listen to anyone's opinion on the genre if they genuinely think they're great games.
Your contribution
Chrono Trigger
Earthbound
Not retro but honorary Golden Sun 1+2

>>6036372
I love NES FF3 but barely remember the DS one, it was a bit dull in comparison
I'm sure my preference for 2D graphics was part of it
I didn't feel frustrated at all but I've gotten the impression that what's divisive about FF3 is that a lot of people expected it to be like 1 or 5 in which you can play-it-your-way with whatever jobs/classes you like, whereas in 3 jobs are tools you use when the situation calls for it and discard when obsoleted by newer tools.

>>6036516
nah
I pretty much only play 2D games though

>>6036595
I don't like the graphics of the remake either, I was mainly talking about the gameplay. The NES version is more traditional as a JRPG in that what makes it difficult is surviving those long dungeons with strong casual enemies rather than beating bosses, but FF3 makes it even worse because you can basically never run away from battles since if one party member uses the Run command (which rarely works) the defense of the whole party is set to zero and even weak enemies can kill you with one hit. Also the MP is way too low until you get the Sage class, which is kind of overpowered.

>>6035886
bro you just posted cringe

>>6036341
I can sympathize with the general sentiment, but I don't really agree with calling it "great because it's simple". A fuckload of JRPGs have super simple gameplay that you can turn your brain off for. That doesn't make them great, though, nor DQ worth any special praise. Really, on that front I would look more towards praising what the Japanese call "yarikomi" games that are specifically about grinding a team up. Think Disgaea. They surpass DQ's button mashing in being satisfying and relaxing for me.

That said, it is true that most JRPGs with good gameplay aren't retro. I was kind of avoiding mentioning this since it's pretty awkward to say on /vr/. To some degree it feels to me that the smaller the team of developers is, the more creative the battle system becomes, so as time went on and indies blew up more JRPGs started having good gameplay. Stuff like Epic Battle Fantasy 5, 東方の迷宮 and スパニーと5つの秘宝 immediately spring to mind as fun modern JRPGs but if you asked me what retro JRPGs had solid gameplay, I'd stammer about FF7/FF8 challenge runs while backing away.

>>6036691
Does Evolution count? It's super simplistic but seems to have been designed with grinding optimization in mind.

>>6036707
That could work. I was actually pretty narrow in my definition, "yarikomi' can broadly refer to things like challenge runs (including speedruns) and expansive postgames with a lot extra to do solely for the sake of the gameplay. Pretty much any game with a lot of replay value or basically "stuff to do" with the gameplay.

>>6035781
t. guy who has never played a single DQ game to completion because he's afraid of the "grinding".
Pro tip: you'll waste more time waiting for attack animations and loading times in your favorite RPGs, than the time you'll spend on random encounters with DQ

>>6036715
My favorite RPG, which I have left unnamed to avoid shit being flung its way by association, is old enough that it does not have attack animations (with a few exceptions) or loading times.

If more DQs were hard enough to warrant grinding, maybe they would actually have enough depth to be good, but instead you get infinite default attack spam.

>>6036721
hard=depth?

>>6036721
Don't you know of the super boss they added to pretty much every Dragon Quest remake?
They made a whole board game side quest to give overpowered you items solely to fight it.

At the risk of being called a casual, I thought certain parts in DQ 3 were hard.
Orochi kicked my ass a lot of times.

>>6035270
Your opinion is oficially trash

>>6036731
In the sense that high difficulty encourages inventive, strategic play, whereas low difficulty does not. If you can beat a boss in record time with a simple attack-heal loop, why bother doing anything else? But if a boss is so hard you have to pull out all the stops or die, well, that's where things can get interesting. More JRPGs than I can count have had a decent amount of depth that went entirely unutilized since default attack and a couple of buffs were enough to win.
>>6036735
I actually dislike super bosses more than anything when it comes to JRPG discussions. So you've got a 30-40 hour JRPG that's braindead boring, but then in the exact final 1% there's an optional superboss or two, so suddenly the game is hard? Fuck off with that shit. The same thing happens in some platformers. I don't want an arbitrary difficulty spike at the end of a piss easy game, I want a game that's challenging and engaging throughout.

>>6036005
>I never said DQ has grinding
Sure, here you go, right here: >>6035781
>If someone just likes numbers going up, then there's no discussion to be had. They don't put thought into the games they're playing
>so they can spam default attacks and giggle as their level goes up
You didn't say it directly, but you didn't need to. This is why I don't bother with retards like you and default to lowercase posts where I call you a dumbass: because you're not worth anything more than that. Not even reading the rest of your posts.

>>6036770
Have you ever heard of the word projecting? Numbers going up happens regardless of whether you grind. It is indeed the case that, completely outside of grinding, a lot of people like seeing numbers go up way more than they like strategic gameplay with depth. You're just projecting grinding onto that, maybe because you're so personally addicted to it you see it everywhere you go. Can't say I'm surprised that someone who projects and has bad reading comprehension will refuse to read posts, by the way.

>>6036769
>So you've got a 30-40 hour JRPG that's braindead boring,
Don't play them

>>6036845
You can't tell if a game is bad until you play it. And in the case of super bosses, even games with good plots have them, so many of them are worth playing despite their gameplay.

>>6036587
Is this any good?
>>6036593
I think chrono trigger is very good (not a 10/10 masterpiece though) but I’ll give you props for mentioning earthbound and golden sun. Nintendo bonus at work right there.

>>6036769
Sounds like you'd enjoy SMT: Nocturne (actually this game is the real litmus test for taste)

>>6035270
Seiken Densetsu 3 unofficial
Final Fantasy 3 nes
Final Fantasy 4 snes
Star Ocean 2 psx
kindred saga rm2k
legend of the philsophers stone rm2k
naufragar crimson rm2k3

>>6035886
Are you having a stroke?

>>6036769
>piss easy

You're not an Icycalm follower are you?

>>6036885
redpill me on the rpg maker games

>>6036908
Never heard of him before.

>>6036915

Ah okay so "piss easy" just gets around amongst douchebags who get all haughty about video game criticism.

>>6036937
Today, anon took one step closer to understanding how broad and varied language is, but didn't quite manage to go all the way.

>>6036869
I have nothing against CT itself, but I mainly made that list in regards to how the people who highly rate those games tend to have surface level knowledge of JRPG's. Hence why I don't think their opinions on the genre are worthwhile. Of course there are some exceptions.
Also agreed, the Nintendo bonus is obnoxious. Nintendo's first and second party JRPG's are good babby's first JRPG's but they're definitely not pinnacles. I was tempted to include SMRPG in the list as well but surprisingly, I don't see it mentioned as much anymore

levels of soul that are unfounded in other corners of this world. the three i listed are also works of art and mastery from a technical and programming point of view as well. they are INCREDIBLY high quality video games for rpgmaker. i even list kindred saga in my top 10 of all time most of the time considering how much ive played it and been inspired by it to make stuff in rpgmaker. ill upload some ss of mine if you are interested, all mainly inspired obviously by retro.

>>6036963
was meant for >>6036910

>>6035387

>>6036869
Blue Forest Story is not great, it was made by a studio that makes a lot of strategy games so its combat system is somewhat unique but isn't revolutionary. It's definitely worth watching a short video of it though, to see how it looks and sounds. The FMV intro is humorously censored in the Playstation 1 version, which also appears to be quite different and begins with a different location, music track, and character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPdrioXXy8E

Lucienne's Quest is a better RPG for the 3DO, it's very upbeat and intuitive. It was also ported to the Sega Saturn but only the 3DO version was translated and localized.

In general, I think this raises an interesting question. How many retro JRPGs that have never been localized are any good anyway? I think it's a very different question if you're talking about the Famicom/NES and PC Engine/Turbografx, then, say, the Playstation 1 and Super Famicom/Nintnedo. Either way many weren't localized, but in the 80's the term "RPG" was pretty much exclusively associated with tabletop pencil-and-paper games like Dungeons and Dragons. JRPGs had a golden age in the 90's, but were not an exception to the general rule of most video games being mediocre, generously, so it's interesting to reflect on how many unlocalized "lost gems" there are out there. Certainly a lot of them have cool 90's art and music, but the plots and actual games are usually a different story altogether. Blue Forest Story is a perfect example of that.

>>6035270
beginning is so fucking slow it makes no sense for me to continue playing

>>6036495
>>6036517
>>6036593
Chrono Trigger is not the best JRPG, however it is one of the most essential. It has every element you would expect to find in a typical JRPG. If someone who had no videogame experience wanted to play a game to get an idea of what a JRPG was, I'd tell them to play Chrono Trigger.

Mandatory? Hmm, many are good, but I wouldn't necessarily call any of them mandatory. Seems weird that Suikoden didn't get mentioned at all, especially since shit translation aside, the first one (and ultimately, Luc's character arc throughout the first three games) has an engaging story and side characters that shine.

>>6036593
Boring.

>>6036491
I went through life assuming this was true, but to be honest with you after playing some of Japanese Xenogears and browsing the script, I found they did a surprisingly good job overall. Krelian and the Gazel ramblings kind of took a hit, but there are just as many places where they handled a weird Japanese idiom gracefully that another translator would have flubbed.

I still wouldn't mind seeing an overhaul, but that has more to do with the fact that people just haven't touched Xenogears in 20 years and I'm starving for activity.

>>6036963
that's pretty cool anon. i'm an rpg maker user myself but i've always shied away from playing other rpgm games because i always imagined them to be "14 year old tries to recreate xenogears" (I don't mean to imply I'm better or anything though, just that I only use it for simple fangame stuff that doesn't really cross over with the main rpg maker community). legend of the philosopher's stone seems to have a neat aesthetic although the overworld sprites could be a bit better, couldn't find much info on naufragar though. and yeah, go ahead and post your stuff, i'd love to see it.

>>6036442
I think idiots like him are in the majority on this website.

>>6036593
>Golden Sun 1+2
this so much
I knew it wasn't good replaying it last month 4 minutes in, and hadn't changed my mind at all 4 hours later.

>>6035270
Shite

>>6036883
Being better with more effort put into it (not counting all the budget constraints) than majority JRPGs doesn't make it good.

Chrono Trigger is the JRPG quality bar for me. If I'm 30 minutes in and it isn't as good as Chrono Trigger, I stop playing. Yes, this means I play one new one about every 3-4 years, but playing even a mediocre JRPG is a complete waste of time. Only the best are worth playing.

Its also a good intro JRPG. Its what got me into the genre, well, to the degree I am.

>>6035270
I've always wanted to get into this game but the basic movement is terrible with a terrible camera to match. I have never even left the opening town because it's just so ass. I finally gave up after 20 years and read a long full synopsis (I had never been spoiled in all those years) and am even more mad that I can't get into it. I've tried so many times and it's just so fucking bad.

As for my choice it's FF9. Not because it's the best in the genre but because if you haven't beaten something that charming it's guaranteed to be because you are too impatient for the battle system and that means the vast majority of other great titles will never hold your attention because they're similarly slow but not as endearing and easy to like conceptually.

>>6037587

>>6037724

>>6037724
Looks good, bottom right reminds me of classic 90s jrpg localization dialogue. Really like the wooded area in the center left too. Did you make the assets yourself?

>>6037734
Some things are rips, some things are by another author for tilesets, i do all of the lighting and "extra" stuff. i make the maps themselves but just download other tilesets. when i get really into making an area i'll chop and screw various tilesets from other games and even make custom stuff but i don't really have the time to do it as im working on another project at the moment thats unrelated to rm. i made the custom sprites like the top center for the character cards and all the poses in battle are custom. that one on the center left was all done in photoshop and some other programs to make lighting work in rpgmaker. thank you for your compliment on the dialogue by the way, alot of people seem to be entertained by some of my writing lol. im kinda aiming to make everyone sort of an insecure fuck up with a odd sense of confidence and cockyness that gets them into trouble.

Xenogears is fucking boring, pretentious shit that would get anyone laughed at except for the Japs who think Freudian psychology is "deep"

>>6037797
i miss 2004.

>>6037070
Name something that's better, because I'd love to play something that's an 11/10 or better.

The story works well, the characters are good, the combat is solid ATB, there's no grinding and the whole thing doesn't overstay its welcome. Name something else that can check all those boxes?

>>6035270
See this get much praise and much hate on /vr/. Is this like Squares failed mangnum opus or something?

>>6038682
It's held in high regard the same way Evangelion is hailed as an anime masterpiece, and for many of the same reasons.

>>6038764
A deconstruction of the JRPG?

>>6038682
The hate comes mainly from the second disk.
Imagine playing the whole FF7 prologue just to find out that the rest of the game outside Midgar is a visual novel.

>>6038159
uh? not him but lol
star ocean 1
star ocean 2
ff3
ff4
ff5
ff6
ff7
ff8
ff9
chrono cross
xenogears
RoSa3
Wild Arms
legend of dragoon
bof2
bof3
bof4
tales of phantasia
FFMQ
SMRPG
Earthbound
Lufia 2
Live-A-Live
Bahamut Lagoon
Shadowrun
Perona 2
Threads of Fate
Secret of the Stars
Front Mission
Rudra no Hihou
Suikoden II
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Alundra
SaGa F
Tales of Destiny
Vandal Hearts

>>6038910
are you saying those are all 11/10, or just that they are better than chrono trigger?

>>6038159
ff9
trails in the sky fc/sc (not retro but the 5th gen influence is everywhere in those games so whatever)

reading through the thread I don't see any saturn jrpgs mentioned even though there are quite a few on the system. surely some are worth playing. just got myself a saturn, obviously I want to try panzer dragoon saga to see what the fuss is about but what else is worthwhile?

>>6039150
The Saturn has a fantastic JRPG library but unfortunately most of them never made it out of Japan.
Dragon Force, Shining the Holy Ark and Shining Force III (all 3 scenarios) are pretty good imo.

>>6038964
not all of them are 11/10 but CT is only a 9/10 so relax.

>>6038841
>yfw this is exactly what will happen with the remake.

>>6037687
>Yes, this means I play one new one about every 3-4 years
I'm assuming you meant "beat".
>but playing even a mediocre game is a complete waste of time
fixed

>>6039150
>panzer dragoon saga
>worthwhile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It3b7kgUqaA

>>6039470
Yes, beat.

And wasting 20-30 minutes playing a mediocre platformer isn't really comparable to a 20-30 hour long jrpg (double that for Playstation era on). You can get a bit of fun out of the graphics or music, or whatever in a mediocre platformer or shooter and be done with it.

>>6039475
>You can get a bit of fun out of the graphics or music
christ just do an image search and youtube
there are thousands of games in existence and you barely have thousands of days to live---budget your time appropriately: skip trash and demi-trash alike

>>6035432
Eternia (US Destiny II) is fucking great and easily in the running for best Tales game. Very slept on title. Destiny is far more dated by now (it was arguably dated on release), but some find charm in its quirks and flaws.
Play Eternia, if you like it then try Destiny, and if you're down for more then hit up JP Destiny 2 (PS2, actual ToD sequel with challenging Eternia-like combat).

I feel like people who are hesitant to say Chrono Trigger are doing it because they don’t wanna sound basic. But...stop being so insecure in your taste and just appreciate a solid game - there’s a reason why it’s so ubiquitous in the genre.

>Peak of the SNES development era, has some of the best pixel art of the decade
>Multiple time eras allows for good world building
>Characters are charming and all are useful in gameplay
>The pacing keeps grinding at a minimum
>CT’s ATB system is a good mix of action and strategy - it never compromises in regards to either
>A lot of Easter eggs and secrets to find
>music and atmosphere that draw you into the game (I could stay at the End of Time for ages)
>Multiple endings
>Story is a good mix of dramatic, somber, and humorous moments all tied into a worthwhile package with some good surprises
>Lavos is threatening as hell
>not too long, not too short - doesn’t overstay its welcome

>>6039984
I’d actually say the world building in chrono trigger is pretty mediocre and it’s my biggest gripe with the game. Everything is more or less a caricature of the era right down to locations, characters, storylines. I understand why that is; they need to be very on the nose to get the concept across, but it doesn’t have the same magic as something like Cosmo Canyon, Esthar, Shevat, places created from the ground up that have this otherworldly fantasy appeal. Zeal is probably the exception and it’s not surprising why people find it to be the most memorable location in the game. Chrono Cross (despite being an inferior game) takes a step in the right direction and they even go to the lengths of discussing Porre, Guardia, etc and their roles in the world, though it’s underdeveloped like a lot of things in CC.

Here are the following "Mandatory" and "Important" JRPGs
>the first three DQ games or just Dragon Quest III and IV
These are important landmarks in the genre and represent the slow evolution of them. By skipping to III and IV you get the gist, but you're missing out on the actual evolution from 'Zelda but menu based combat' to what we would recognize as the modern turn based JRPG.
>Final Fantasy VII or every FF up till IX
A landmark series. Either play FFVII on its own to get to arguably the most popular JRPG, or play all 9 numbered titles to see the series before it really went to shit with X onwards.
>Chrono Trigger
Incredibly popular.
...Were you expecting more? It's the normalfag's favourite JRPG next to FFVI.
>the Mother trilogy or Earthbound
The best example of a cult classic JRPG series.
>Dragon Quest V or DQM
Along with MegaTen, this is what Porkymons ripped off.
>Pokemon
The most normalfag, dull, easy JRPG series in existence. A game series made for autists that should only be played to understand why it's popular.
>>6035369
>NES
The FF titles, but some people may argue future ports/remakes are better (like the GBA, PSX, PSP and DS ones)
Dragon Warrior I-IV (but, again, the remasters are usually superior. More content or improved animations usually, but IV in particular has a far superior remaster on the PSX and DS)
>N64
hahahahahahaha
Paper Mario
>Windows
Just... play the ports. PC exclusive RPGs were almost always not Japanese, usually WRPGs.

>>6040048
Agreed, for the most part - Zeal is when the game totally picked up for me. It's definitely the exception.

I would argue though, and this isn't a perfect argument by any means - that each individual era in CT is pretty shallow, but they all combine to make a world with a timeline fleshed out enough to be interesting.

I still haven't beaten CC yet (I'm late to that train), but so far what I've played you are correct. I'm near the end of disc 1, for reference.

Xenogears
Chrono Cross
Wild Arms
Suikoden
Legend of Mana

>>6035270
Final Fantasy VII, solely because of cultural relevance, or in modern speech, memes. I haven't played it myself, btw.
Xenogears is just Evangelion rendered in pixelated sprites and wity unappealing, underdeveloped JRPG intermissions.

>>6035832
Only a handful of enemies in Dragon Quest use snooze. status ailments are rarely that bad.

>>6039984
Maybe is that a lot of people don't consider it that great, it's definetly a good game, but it's not the GOAT a lot of people say it is.

there are tons of games that have better gameplay or story

>>6038910
Yeah, none of that shit is better than Chrono Trigger, try harder. I see a bunch of grind fests with shit stories and literal who's. Also not a single FF is better than CT and you put all of them like they were actually important, lel.

>No one mentions breath of fire 3/4

w-why?

Am I retarded or is Vagrant Story stupid hard? I've tried playing it twice and both times I ended up getting to a boss that I could do only insignificant damage to, but there's no way to grind in this game other than using a particular weapon on a dragon-type enemy for fucking DAYS on end. The narrative has been intriguing and immersive, but fuck if the game mechanics aren't massive obstacles. Am I missing something? And if not, is there a romhack to temper this insanity?

>>6043630
not as popular as square games; never played them, so i can't judge

>>6045616
The game is very poor at conveying it's mechanics to the player. IIRC the enemy type mod doesn't really do anything, the weapon type matters a lot, and the element type matters a lot too but you probably weren't far enough to be able to take advantage of that anyways. Just making sure you have the 3 highest str of each weapon type on you and making sure all their PP and durability are topped off will get you past that 1 dmg threshold lots of people fall into. Deathblows are overpowered too. No reason not to just spam them infinitely since healing items are so common.

>>6045681
I remeber also that having your weapon in or out was important... A danger stat i think!

>>6036337
>FFT has godlike gameplay compared to shit like CT.
Never played it, but FFTA was shite. Fire Emblem games are where it's at.

>>6045681
Thanks for the tips. I really wanted to continue the story but kept getting stuck on that dragon after the forest section.

>>6045681
>Deathblows
Break arts. Were they called deathblows in Tactics Ogre?

The thing that might be hard to understand with the elements is say the enemy has 10 cold affinity, 50 fire affinity. You get more damage using a 70 fire sword than a 20 cold sword, and a 100 fire sword would be better than the 70 one. In pretty much every other game out there, you'd expect that this enemy blocks a lot of fire damage, and so going for any fire sword would be stupid but the game doesn't work like that.

Now that I think about it, its likely that all of the game works in that sort of way where it's simply stat subtract stat. If the player is hitting for -20 dmg (which gets bumped up to 1), swaps weapons to a different type or a different element or hits the head vs legs whatever, they might now do -5 dmg (again bumped up to 1) but the game hasn't conveyed anything useful to the player to tell them they've actually made the right call because they were still unable break that barrier.

>>6035270
Wizardry i mean Dragon Quest

>>6036937
Broaden your horizons and get the hotdogs of of your bloody ears, Yank. Half the world says piss easy. It's common English in many countries.

>>6043630
>It's a game about dragons!
Instant pass.

>>6040338
Couldn't help but notice you're another fag who doesn't give a shit about gameplay. Very typical for fans of this genre, though.

>>6035270
If anyone tells me they think Chrono Cross is a bad game I immediately dismiss everything they have to say about anything else rpg related.

>>6035270
I don't have any.

That said, I'm currently really enjoying OP's pic, and I was wondering, how is Xenosaga compared to it? I played Xenoblade and they are nothing alike.

>>6047943
Go back to your shmup general paco

>>6036014
I like your post and agree with your sentiment, but that skinner box is precisely what most players want. They want a game, not another part-time job or degree program.

>>6035270
More like such a good game, that if someone doesn't like it, it doesn't even matter to me. A rare confidence not found anywhere else.
>>6035781
The Good ones also have adventure game gameplay and open world exploration.

>>6035579
For thine sheath

Tonight i'm posting on /vr/ just to tell everyone they should play gun hazard

>>6035629
Wizardry is my fave Japanese game

>>6035270
The one with a lot of doujinshis

>>6045616
You want to build up your weapons affinity towards certain races or attributes, and use your diminish debuff spell (or what ever it is called) on all bosses.

>>6035635
>I feel that its overall balance kinda misses the mark for me. However, its storytelling and atmosphere are top tier.
That's SMT in a nutshell.

- Persona 2 (both of them): fuck the others that come after it, they're all generic anime shit. Focused more in waifu pandering than complex, adult plot with interesting characters. Series was fucked when new Atlus tried to continue. I wish it was still dead than seeing what Atlus is doing to series now. Maybe if they at least bring Tadashi Satomi back one day series can be saved...the PSP port of EP shows he still have ideas for the series. He should be there again when they made 3 and if I could punch the one responsible for not calling him by then I would. But hey at least Hashino is out! Maybe things will be a bit better without that fucking retarded.

- Skies of Arcadia. Holy shit. One of the best JRPGs I ever played. I think I still never saw other JRPG that nails stuff like exploration as this one does. Plot and such aren't as good as say Persona 2 but they're still very good. How this didn't became a series is absolutely beyond me. Not sure if it's too late for that but we could at least get a remake or some enhanced port...would love to play it again in my ps4.

- Final Fantasy VI: I still consider it the best FF overall which isn't hard since series went to the shit pile after X and judging from XV, it's not going to return anytime soon. Sigh...

- Lost Odyssey: game made by original FF creator and boy does it show. Fucking amazing stuff there. Even the small "stories" that game throws at you related to the protagonist are better than entire plots of full games I've seen today. The only bad thing about this game is that is exclusive to fucking xbox 360 which means nobody will play it today.

>>6052680
continuing:

- Saga Frontier: game have some original ideas like the presentation and having many "small" journeys than focused in a single big one. Best one of the entire saga franchise IMO and it's just a shame that the game was even better originally and they had to cut stuff to release game in time which sadly fucked some stuff like Fuse's sidequest and that character since he was going to be a main as well. More than that shame that SF2 sucked compared with this one.

Suikoden 2/5: a tie since both are very good and the best of series. In particular 5 can be considered better since it's a good game without any help from original creator and somehow they still made a good game after the disaster that 4 was. And based on some of the endings the staff had ideas to where to take the series and it's painful that everything was throw in the trash since you know...Konami. Oh yeah FUCK KONAMI!

- Tales of Eternia: there are many good Tales game and only some suck ass (like Legendia, Xillia and Zestiria). This is one of the best ones and I still hope we will get a remake of it ala Destiny one day, specially since they cut all of the skits in original game.

>>6035341
Well I don't remember why exactly, either they ran out of money or had to pretty much cut entire second half due to deadline but there was a good reason why the second half is so shit compared with first. That game really need to have a remake for like yesterday. Fact that it didn't happened yet shows Square Enix still don't have enough brains in the current staff if they think only FF7 need a remake.

>>6047992
CC isn't a bad game; the problem is that it's a fucking terrible sequel to CT and that make sense since the game was NOT made to be a sequel. Square forced the team to turn the game into a sequel in the middle of development and staff suck as fuck hated that. It's no wonder that more than half of the original cast don't even show up in it.

>>6036885
Never heard of those last three. They're really that good?

>>6052691
>CC isn't a bad game; the problem is that it's a fucking terrible sequel to CT and that make sense since the game was NOT made to be a sequel.

Except you're wrong.
Masato Kato had been planning CC since 1996. That's how Radical Dreamers was made.

CC was planned FROM THE BEGINNING as a sequel to CT (source, Chrono Cross Ultimania, pages 478–481)

CC isn't bad, it's just different. It also suffers from being like 3 games worth of stuff cut and stuffed into a smaller game that got its budget slashed 70% of the way through development.

>>6053773
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/196917-chrono-cross/faqs/12923
you're talking about this? I had no idea they had translated CCU that's neat! But I don't see anything in that interview that shows that CC was planned from the beginning as a sequel to CT? They're only talking about CC in there and last question made in interview doesn't mean CC was made from start to be sequel of CT. They're just talking about Janus.

As for my own source, been fucking years ago but I believe it was another interview but not from CCU; I don't think it was translated at that time. Now maybe it was fake or something, but I did believe it since it just make sense. And I think you didn't understand; I never said that Masato didn't planned a sequel. I said that Square had a team working in another game and suddenly they had to make it the "official" sequel to CC. So likely when that happened Masato got onboard of that game and worked with team to shoehorn in all stuff he could or needed to make it seem game was build to be a sequel.

>>6053773
Also, If anything, I believe RD is the only "official" sequel to CT since at least we actually do have fucking Magus in it instead of the whole convoluted and cut mess with Guile in CC. That's just logical if you think about it; if the game was supposed to be a sequel of CT from the start and it came after RD...why the fuck they would feel they need to "delete" Magus and make a whole new character instead? Magus was too important in CT and even in RD, so would make sense if he was the only character really and literally tying all three games together right? if they had to do that because "as more and more characters were added to the game, the developers felt that it would have been too difficult to represent Magus' story well amongst the sea of other characters" then would have made FAR more sense to have deleted like 20 of the completely useless characters that CC have to make room to give the space that Magus should have got and deserved, showing that indeed this game was planned to be a direct sequel to CT.

I’m thinking of playing through the Parasite Eve series, but I have to know before I get going, is 2 and the 3rd Birthday really that bad or are they serviceable enough? I know 3rd Birthday basically changes the genre of the game completely but it always looked neat.

>>6035781
>story
If you play JRPGs, wait no, any video games, for a story, you should promptly blow your brains out.
>complex gameplay
If you play JRPGs for complex gameplay, you should promptly blow your brains out.
Read a fucking book or play action games instead of watered down, stolen culture from brainless Japs. JRPGs are a great genre if you think like the insects that make them. If you don't, then what are you doing? Kill yourself or fuck off to go play bang bang shoot em or chess or something you inbred nigger.

>>6054063

2 is weird but fun. 3rd birthday is worthless.

>>6054063

Well the music in 3rd birthday is good at least

>>6054103
That’s good at least. I loved the art direction in 2 and some of the enemy designs were really neat.
>>6054104
Dang. Guess I’ll see how bad it is when I get there, but 2/3 isn’t bad. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t looking forward to playing 3rd Birthday the most, but that was mostly due to the marketing making it look so neat for a psp game back in the day.

I love etrian odyssey!

>>6035341
They're wrong, both halves are shit. Great concept, awful execution.

>>6054224
And don't forget, assets that belonged to about 2-3 different games.

>>6054089
>If you play JRPGs, wait no, any video games, for a story, you should promptly blow your brains out.
why? games have better gameplay than books. A book may have a better story, but a game has a better combination of both.

>>6035270
No jrpgs are necessary

>>6035906
Are you an autist?

>>6056319
>"If you like what I don't like you should die"
Don't mind people like this, anon. They're just a bit narcisistic, that's all.
As for important JRPGs to have played, we gotta admit the Final Fantasy series is where we all mostly started out. Which figures because they're all piss easy.
Me, I'm a Tales of the Abyss kind of guy. ACTUALLY free to do shit in the overworld such as fighting stronger guys you're not supposed to and entering towns and stuff. That's how they should be.

>>6040338
>>Pokemon
>The most normalfag, dull, easy JRPG series in existence. A game series made for autists that should only be played to understand why it's popular.

It's hilarious, but it's clear why you're the kind of person who would hold this opinion, as >>6047943 says.

Pokemon is one of the few JRPG series with an actual focus of gameplay and which is actually built around exploring, experimenting and building up your part to fight other players as opposed to being strung along to a story.

>>6050275
>The Good ones also have adventure game gameplay and open world exploration.

This. This is what Dragon Quest does better than other JRPGs and why I ignore people who shit on it and prefer story driven nonsense.

>>6035341
I didn't believe initially all the naysayers that the second half would be THAT bad, since the first half is absolutely fantastic...then I got to the disc change part, and I understood it in 5 minutes. I laughed like a maniac, and then closed the game and never touched again.
I will always laugh at idiots like OP who claim that this garbage is their favorite game.

>>6035356
>If you enjoy the first 4 or 5 hours then you will enjoy the whole game.
No you won't. Disc 2 is a joke, they couldn't have been serious. No, I don't give a fuck that they ran out of budget. Learn to manage your resources better or put up with being mocked for an eternity.

>>6036005
>lacking substance, but memorable for children.

That pretty much sums up Chrono Trigger almost entirely.

>>6035781
Absolutely based. DQ fags seething and btfo because they can't handle the truth.
Thank you for this post, it's refreshing to see sane people here.

>>6036593
>Not retro but honorary Golden Sun 1+2
based

>>6036008
>I have actually played close to every DQ game, 1-9, stopping at 10

So you haven't played 11 with the Draconian challenges on? Your loss, because that is seriously more demanding than the vast majority of JRPG campaigns.

>>6056978
LMAO stop lying. No it fucking isn't. I finished it with tougher enemies and it's only slightly less braindead than them being turned off. It's about standard difficulty using them.

>>6037797
>thinking Freudian psychology isn't deep

>>6056980
>I finished it with tougher enemies

Just that one?

>>6056978
I haven't, but if I do I'll be sure to put them on. I don't really expect the story to be that great, so I haven't found the motivation to boot it up and potentially suffer through another dull DQ game.

>>6057012
the game really isn't anything special. Don't bother and get the recent SaGa games instead.

>>6035356
the first 4 or 5 hours it's an actual jrpg with a journey and meaningful character development. it is not indicative of the game as a whole in the slightest and most criticisms of xenogears stem from the fact that it jumps the shark rather than staying consistent

>>6057238
No anon, that is not jumping the shark, that is outright shitting the bed, swimming in it and calling it a masterpiece.

>>6057238
>the first 4 or 5 hours it's an actual jrpg with a journey and meaningful character development.
Character development continues throughout the game, and the first 4 hours is actually overly cryptic and spends too much time setting up obscure plot threads that won't resolve for 40 hours while the overall story advances at a glacial pace.

But yes I would say that 4 hours or less is eonugh to get a feel for whether you'll enjoy Xenogears provided you can extrapolate whether you'll be able to tolerate the gameplay for another 40-60, understanding that its dynamics will change very little as the game progresses.

If you're the kind of storyfag who doesn't care about the combat or exploration mechanics in a JRPG then you might as well just play it because you already have no taste to speak of

>>6035348
>Xenogears is fantastic but it didn't feel like I was playing a game. It's more of a movie than a game
That's normal for japanese jrpgs.

>>6035270
I won’t listen to anyone’s opinion if they like any JRPG or if it’s their favorite genre. They barely have more depth than virtual novels. Yamauchi was 100% right. They’re slow, boring games for depressed faggots.

>>6054334
What?

>>6059306
Yeah, someone calling a bunch of people depressed faggots for liking a video game genre definitely sounds like an adjusted person with taste worth listening to.

>>6056983
Gotta be 18 to post here anon.

>>6060765
But its underageds who shit on it based off its reputation without actually reading Freud or understanding his ideas.

>>6059431
The former Nintendo president said that in ‘03, I think. He was right. RPG’s are objectively the worst genre. They’re slow games with little gameplay value. It doesn’t require much thought. Anyone can beat any RPG, even a toddler.

>>6035270
Valkyrie Profile

>>6052691
>That game really need to have a remake for like yesterday. Fact that it didn't happened yet shows Square Enix still don't have enough brains in the current staff if they think only FF7 need a remake.

As much as it needs a remake, you and I both know that ff7 will bring in more money.

>>6060858
All that matters is how the game makes you feel.

>>6056959
Pocket Monsters isn't very strategic in its gameplay.
It's just basic elemental differences and 1v1 fights.
It has slightly more depth than Dragon Warrior.

>>6060858
He has never played a video game.

>>6054089
A very thoughtful and intelligent post.

>>6060819
I like psychoanalysis myself but it's been proven that especially freud's version of it is bunk.

>>6062094
replied to the wrong post
>>6060765

>>6062098
Shouldn't post anymore, was right the first time.

>>6061085
>Xenogears
It helps with inducing vomiting.

>>6056773
depression is the healthy response to sad things

>>6061367
>It's just basic elemental differences

But the way it handles this results in way more depth than everything else. Like FF style elemental weaknesses is just "oh, an ice, thing, better use my specific fire magic spell on it that's identical to my thunder magic except it's more good against these guys", which is the depth of Simon Says, which is hilariously weaker than even RPS. Where in Pokemon, each Pokemon is limited in what moves it has, and you swap out your Pokemon to counter your opponent's specials, which can in turn be potentially countered doing moves in anticipation of a specific mon being swapped in, and that's just he beginning, because these things affect how the battle progresses and what tactics will be available to each party, which you almost never have to care about in most JRPG where you just heal periodically to solve 99% of your problems.

>>6035341
>everyone says
Well, how would you know unless you actually played it?

>>6062943
All of that complexity exists on paper, but nobody in reality. In actual pokemon you can just beat the entire game by using one single pokemon and ignoring all the complexity. Each pokemon is limited in what moves it has? Who cares, spam your strongest damage move. Swap out to counter your opponent? Nah, gyms and such are themed around one element so the pokemon you sent out at the start will steamroll. And so on. This is true for both the retro games and the modern games by the way. You have to basically cripple yourself with Nuzlocke-esque rules for the gameplay to have any depth at all. At least Final Fantasy gameplay forces some level of engagement. For Pokemon you just turn your brain off. And while it's true that online pokemon will force higher degree of involvement, comparing an offline singleplayer game to an online / cable multiplayer game isn't exactly meaningful.

>>6040338
>fails to mention the ultima series or goldbox games
not best games by any means but worth messing with the game worlds and experiencing them at least once.

>>6063384
>Ultima
>JRPG

>>6035557
Fuck what I wouldn't give for a PS4 FFT that has online PvP

>>6038910
????
You just listed all the games youv'e played. You were supposed to list one (1) game that satisfies these criteria:
>story works well
>good characters
>solid combat
>no grinding
>doesn't overstay its welcome

Why did Bishop Stone turn into a skeleton?

>>6035878
Vignettes.

>>6043630
Breath of Fire 4 is absolutely fantastic with it’s not-China setting.
I like BoF2 more than BoF3 though, something about the latter just makes me feel like it drags on.

>>6052680
>Lost Odyssey
Pretty sure it either works on Xenia now or there’s a custom build for it.

>>6060858
Sounds like you’re talking about shmups.
The difference being shmupfags have deluded themselves into thinking they’re achieving something.

>>6063845
That's his true face. Redskull there was just wearing a mask.

I've yet to find a single person with a worthwhile opinion on jrpgs. They aren't necessarily bad games but they're impossible to discuss.

>>6064092
This thread has been specially awful, I don't blame you.
But what do you mean by "worthwhile option"? Opinions that align with yours? That's not a discussion.

>>6064104
Someone I can talk to and not feel like I wasted my time. I don't care whether their opinions align with mine.

I miss the JRPG General.

>>6064219
the one where every other post was a spoiler to a popular JRPG?

>>6064092
Define Worthwhile

>>6035270

Final Fantasy 7
Chrono Trigger


Both are must play games and defined the
JRPG genre.

I'm not gonna list Final Fantasy I, although that one was revolutionary, it aged badly and isn't playable IMO. At least try the Origins versions or the PSP version.

>>6063845
Because he is a Wels. That and he realized the game he was in was so shit he peeled off his face.

>>6035781
>Literally games for children that, logically enough, manchildren latch onto.
Anon it was made for children and adults. It's family freindly. Anyone who mentions it being too easy or not difficult does not even understand the demographics the games are intended for. Even Pokemon stays the same due to it being for children.

>>6035270
I largely dismiss those that speak about Final Fantasy Tactics in a positive light. While yes it was innovative and interesting. It also had long load times, cryptic battles here and there. The payoff was not as good as many remembered as it is no longer discussed today.

>>6063314
>comparing an offline singleplayer game to an online / cable multiplayer game isn't exactly meaningful.

But it is though, because Pokemon is the only JRPG with a battle system that stands up to multiplayer battles, which have been a huge point to the games since the originals. Even if you made FF multiplayer, it just wouldn't work because it's bases itself on the same degenerate attack/heal loop where you deal out way more than you can take that every other JRPG has, which Pokemon gracefully avoids.

>>6065069
jarpigs don't care about post-game, if they even have a concept of it, so multiplayer to them doesn't count

>>6064252
Are people supposed to feel sorry for Zoomers and Slowpokes?

>>6065152
I guess basic courtesy was too much too ask of JRPGfags.

I don't even know why anyone would miss the old JRPG general. It was literally one of the worst threads I've ever seen.

>constant spoilers every time a new game was announced for an english release
>kiseki spam nonstop

>>6065163
And even then it was a better time waster to talk about JRPGs than anything that's out there these days.