/vr/ - Retro Games

you're in denial

>>6019860
Game guid bait. World's first pay to win microtransaction, a warning of what was to come.

>>6019865
even as a kid, I figured the common sense thing to do was try and make the barrel move up and down, being that it bounces when you land on it. conveniently, the genesis d-pad just so happens to have an up and down button...

>>6019860
It's a classic child challenge, if you were young enough the first time you played it it was infuriating, but if you were over the age of like ten then yes obviously its easy

Reminder that if you consider the barrel bad game design, you're an idiot.

>>6019889
Where does it happen in Hydrocity?

>>6019860
it's the ultimate iq test, and i failed, failed hard

>>6020015
When you're being flushed.
Anyway, I still think >>6019889 is wrong. Yes, there are prior instances where you use up and down on the D-Pad, but the difference is that those were intuitive. In Hydrocity, you saw the spikes coming and the game gave you time to adjust accordingly; in Marbe Garden, you're in a free-range mode; in Carnival Night, there's no indication that the barrels would respond to your up and down inputs. The animation that plays when you on top of them is the same as the spinning cylinder objects in Hyrocity, so your first thought would be that you're at its whims, and when you see that they respond to your landing on it, you take it that's how to manipulate its movement. If there were additional sprites, like Sonic holding his arms up and down to shift his weight more realistically, then you'd have a point.

>>6019889
You are never, once, in any Sonic game prior locked into a room where you can't proceed unless it's by using the up or down directions. Lick a goat's ass.

I immediately guessed that I needed to press certain arrows the first time I played this game.
Don't know what's anyone's problem here.

>>6020038
>>6020049
In addition to these, the previous barrels up to that point were either A. optional (and it's unlikely, though possible, you'll spend time playing around with it instead of just moving on) or B. Operating differently from the barrel in that room.

>>6019878
My nephew got past it and he's like 6

It's not challenging, it's just poorly explained.

>>6021068
This. Period.

Didn't someone in SEGA state a public apology for the barrel?

>>6021068
What do you want? Tails to pipe up with a message box telling you exactly what to do?

>>6021070
Just because someone apologizes doesn't mean they're in the wrong. Most public apologies are just to stop autistic fans from screaming at you for a couple more days.

>>6021074
Could have just not put it there in the first place.

>>6021080
But then people like you wouldn't have been filtered. No, it's funnier this way.

>>6019860
True, but it's fun to read about people that had trouble with it.

>>6019860
Nobody thinks it was challenging. The issue is you have no idea what to do or where to go because the way forward is getting on top of that thing and pressing up and down to get it building speed until it lets you drop underneath.
If you don't guess this it's not necessarily likely you'll ever do what's needed there without someone or something else telling you about it. So it became a dead end for a lot of players at the time. I was always into those strategy guide magazines personally so it wasn't a problem for me, but I could easily see not guessing that's what you need to do.

>>6021156
I think I figured it out through dumb luck when I just mashed the arrows randomly while standing on another barrel earlier in the zone.

Somic Jam gets rid of the barrel lol

>>6021232
Yeah, in Baby Mode.

>>6019860
It just took a while of button mashing to figure out just how tf to use it.

Also it's got fucking up/down arrows RIGHT THERE ON THE BARREL

>>6020015
On the poles

>>6021659
That pattern's a diamond shape. Quit reaching.

>>6021670
Exactly. I don't know what the appeal is to collecting a bunch of random tortured excuses for "hints" and listing them off while pretending to be shocked the thing notorious for being a non-obvious obstacle to level completion is something people didn't instantly know to start hitting the up and down D-Pad inputs on top of.
It's definitely not obvious at all. A normal approach if anything would be trying to jump on it to make it go down. The up / down directionals don't naturally make objects you stand on start moving in almost any other context and there's no screen change showing you're now controlling some sort of up / down kinetic functionality. You just have to accidentally start doing it or find out from a guide realistically.

>>6019874
You might be autistic. Almost everyone tried jumping on it repeatedly at least once. Pressing down makes no sense in response to the bounce.

Once you figured it out it wasn't a challenge, but playing it first hand as a kid I will say it wasn't intuitive. You never needed to press the up button on the D pad before in a Sonic game, so having to do a rhythmic motion to move the barrel was not something people thought of doing when approaching the puzzle. I felt like it was a fun experience to try something new first hand, but yeah it wasn't readily apparent.

>>6021839
Yeah, calling it "challenging" is missing the point of why people complained about it. Challenging is where it takes lots of work or skill to get through. This in contrast takes no skill or work at all. It's just a trick that's really easy not to discover.

>>6019860
You know that AVGN where he tries a bunch of times to jump over a one-step grap only to realize you have to walk over it even though he makes a continuity mistake with the footage because he was an amateur at the time? It's a lot like that, but with a lot more time/game overs involved.

>>6021839
The barrel is terrible design and as a kid that was pretty decent at sonic games by that point I game over'd there as super sonic which left a pretty indelible impression on me.

>>6021074
When they started doing shit like this with Omochao, everyone complained about it.

>>6021906
I remember reading there was an error as well once, but I went to the part in the original video and watched it and the parts around it and it escapes me now. I googled for it but didn't find something pertaining to this. Could you do me a favor and tell me specifically what the continuity error was? Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjUz8IT0CYg&t=5m

(5 minutes in)

>>6020928
or C. under a low enough platform that you could get over them just by jumping up and down on the barrel with good timing.

>>6021068
It's not a puzzle if the solution is "explained" to you, brainlet.

as a kid, I could not progress past that room for maybe a year, I just had to stop playing. I could only complete the game as knuckles because of this room. i figured you needed to get the barrel to go down but i was only trying to increase the momentum by jumping on it which is a mechanic that had already been established in the zone by those red/yellow platforms that you jump on to go up/down. but making well timed jumps on the barrel at the peak of its harmonic motion never increased its distance. it was only much much after that i saw someone do it by standing on it. it's not that i was a bad player, it was that they throw an esoteric mechanic at you with no build up or help. there is nothing else in Sonic that you have to control by pushing up/down. and then they create this bottleneck curveball.

>be on a barrel
>if I look up, that mean I'll lift the barrel (with me on it)
>if I look down, that mean I'll burry the barrel

>>6019860
This barrel was the first and only time I ever called the sega hint line. Before being connected with someone, there was a pre-recorded message saying "if you're calling about the barrel in Sonic 2, here's what you have to do...". So apparently a lot of people were having issues with it.

>>6022546
It's not a puzzle to begin with. It's an obstacle.

>>6022871
There's a reason no one wanted to play league with you as a kid

>>6019860
The reason it is confusing is that it can gain momentum from jumping, but not enough to "solve" it.
If it only interacted with jumping OR the arrow keys it would be intuitive. That's why the other instances where you need to move up and down actually work.

>>6019889
The fact that you can get past the earlier barrels without pressing up and down actually confuses the issue, since they do not necessarily show you that you need to do so.
Also, in the Hydrocity and Marble Garden examples it is clear you are in a different state where the controls have different results than normal gameplay.

>>6023147
This. The fact that it responds to jumping give you the illusion that jumping will work, which isn't the case.

>>6021101
>>6021235
>>6021659
>i'm superior to you because i smashed the d-pad on my controller when i had an autistic meltdown
How about you have sex instead?

>>6021670
there are obvious dividing lines you complete cretin, quit being legally blind

>>6022483
He walks over a gap earlier in the video.

>>6019860

I literally got past it when I was 7 years old AND I have autism. It's really not that hard to figure out. Hold up when it goes up and hold down when it goes down.

>>6023584
It's not a matter of hard or easy. It's a matter of never even thinking to stand on top of a barrel and start pressing the up and down directionals on the D-Pad to magically make it start to move up and down faster and faster until you can drop under. Jumping on it to make it build up speed and distance would have made a lot more sense since the up directional doesn't really do anything in almost any other Sonic game context.

>>6023469
Having a line drawn across diamonds on a barrel isn't some obvious hint to jump on top of it and start pressing up and down you retard. Stop pretending it is.

>>6021074
It doesn't change the fact it expects you to do something that isn't otherwise needed anywhere else.

I guess the real problem is the mechanic itself. You aren't told what up or down do when you're on a barrel at any time so most people wouldn't assume it's supposed to do anything. You could slap the buttons and maybe effect a small change but knowing you need to press up and down rhythmically isn't clear at any point.

That fags here actually still think fiddling on a dpad and 3 buttons for like a minute is "hard" really proves barrels are the ultimate casual filter.
>>6022929
>obstacles need to be explained
I'm sorry you're so retarded that you must need a hint box to tell you jumping on spikes is bad and loops require momentum to pass.
>>6023616
>You aren't told
/vr/ - The board that needs hints explained to them in a fucking Sonic game.

I dunno, it seemed like a no brainer to me when I was a kid. The thing was moving up and down so I moved the dpad up and down.

>>6023689
But since the game does not EXPLICITLY tell you to move up and down, despite every other fucking obstacle in a sonic game requiring you to use context clues and physics, that means it's bad!

>>6019860
true and people that struggled with it will use muh bAd GaMe DeSiGn as a coping mechanism for their retardation.

>>6023667
>you must need a hint box to tell you jumping on spikes is bad and loops require momentum to pass
No, you fucking retard. Those examples you're giving are exactly why the barrel was bad design. Nobody makes the same complaint about not knowing spikes are bad or not knowing how momentum and running on loops work because those were good designs that intuitively make sense to everyone who encounters them. Pressing up and down rhythmically while standing on a barrel is nothing like that. Most people would have no idea to do that because it isn't intuitive and doesn't fall out of the regular flow of gameplay.

>>6023689
Do you alternate between crouching and looking up at the sky to make trampolines work? Pretty sure most people would... get this, JUMP.

I hope whoever designed that part got fired and never worked in game industry again

What's the point of these threads?

>>6023739
I pressed up and down on the trampolines in Mario, yes. You just try stuff man

>>6023757
To prove once and for all that the barrel is bad game design/good game design (delete as appropriate

>>6021125
Exactly.

>>6023757
For all the casuals to invade /vr/
>>6023738
>blah blah I'm a dumbass that thinks stopping to fiddle with the dpad for a minute is bad design why won't this game explain shit to me so i can win
You want to just admit a Sonic game made a mistake and didn't give you a "Press Forward to win" button?

It's an obstacle that requires so thought and noodling around.

>>6023867
>It's an obstacle that requires so thought and noodling around.
It doesn't require thought. You pretty much either accidentally do it or don't, and if you don't you probably were trying to look around to see if you missed some entrance to proceed to the next part of the level, or at most might have tried jumping onto the barrel and seeing that doing this didn't make it move enough to get you going to the rest of the level.
That's what's bad about it. Not that's hard but that it's very easy to simply never start hitting the up and down directionals while standing on top of it the way you need to in order to continue.

>>6021074

>>6023867
>>6023883
PS I might be wrong about the looking for a missed entrance part. Haven't played it in a very long time and noticed in the OP picture it looks like you might just be stuck in that one area at that point in the stage.

>>6023885
That's funny, but to be fair nobody who's complained about the barrel wanted help text. It's more like either A) don't have the barrel at all or B) make it the same idea for motion except it needs to build up momentum through jumping instead of pressing up and down.
Option B would make a lot more sense and would be the organic / intuitive approach a lot more similar to the knowing spikes are bad or knowing how to use loops to build speed examples given in this thread.

>>6019865
Nah, he is just capable of using more than 3 brain cells at a given time.

>>6019874
It gets even better when you consider that on most if not every object, you can move left & right to interact or to get off, but the barrel is one thing that locks your horizontal movement - you can't run left & right on it. It also moves up and down and jumping only gets me off without moving it enough, so HM MAYBE I SHOULD PRESS UP AND DOWN.

>>6020928
There is at least one instance before that room, where you had to do move up with a barrel to reach a ledge high enough to progress.

>>6020049
Marble Garden has those blue spinner things you have to active with spindashes, and you can't proceed without using them in a few times (they open up a path to the bottom). That was much worse explained, since not only is there nothing else SPECIFICALY requiring a spindash, there's also no other visual indication (like the game locking controls), nor is the interaction something that is standard in every other platforming game. Also, the spin dash it just a way to start with maximum speed, it's not supposed to be a way to interact with something.
The only single indication is that it's blue and round shaped so potentially it can spin in one place, like what the spin dash does.

That shit took me way longer to figure out than the barrel. And by that I mean it might have taken me half a minute at most, after I gave up trying to climb up the sleep hills with normal spindashes (I might have even activated it accidentally by standing on it while I tried to charge up the spin dash).

>>6021839
>playing it first hand as a kid I will say it wasn't intuitive

I every single game I played as a child, it was a completely standard idea to try every move the joystick/gamepad can do, if I wanted to interact with anything. It's how you figured out how to progress.

>>6023972
>There is at least one instance before that room, where you had to do move up with a barrel to reach a ledge high enough to progress.
Like someone else said, THAT barrel is one of the reasons this "puzzle" sucks. If you jump up and down on it, the momentum can push it high enough that you can just barely jump up to the ledge.

>>6023978
No, it can't. The most you can do is use one of the bumpers next to it to pinball you high enough. If you dick around with gaining momentum by jumping, it'll take you minutes to clear it.

>>6023609
then why was i able to do it without any trouble when I was six

>>6023995
Because you accidentally pressed up or down while on it and many other people didn't.
Once again, nobody is saying it was hard. Difficulty isn't the issue. It's simply easy to never do.

>>6023972
>HM MAYBE I SHOULD PRESS UP AND DOWN.
It's funny because that doesn't even work. All "pressing" will do is a slight nudge. You actually have to implore holding a directional input.
...
We'll say it again, there's no other point in the history of Sonic where you are forced to hold Up or Down to proceed.

The biggest problem with the barrels is that they react to jumping on them. If you time the jumps right, you can keep pushing it lower and lower until it looks like one more good jump will give you enough space to get down. Instead of trying other things, people naturally assume this is the solution and think the timing is just difficult.

>>6024017
So you really do need someone to tell you what to do, then. Jesus fuck, man. Whatever happened to trying something, seeing it doesn't work, then trying something else until it does? Whatever happened to literal basic problem solving and process of elimination?

I figured it out when I was a kid. You are measurably less intelligent than a child.

>>6019860

What is the deal with this barrel? I haven't played the game but by position and that shaft etc. it looks a lot like an elevator. SO I'd try to push down or up on it. Is there anything else about this barrel?

>>6024072
Why do you keep trying to make the solution telling the player what to do? The entire point is it's shit design if you need to tell someone what to do. Also you're continuing to make it look like an easy vs. difficult thing when that's also something you've been told fifty times isn't the issue. It's not difficult at all to press up and down rhythmically while standing on a barrel. It's also not anything you would necessarily start doing in that context, and lots of people didn't.

>>6024136
>it looks a lot like an elevator. SO I'd try to push down or up on it
Elevators in Sonic don't involve pushing up or down. You don't ever really use the up directional in Sonic much at all, and the down directional is more for getting into position to spindash or starting to spin while mid-run. Also just pressing up wouldn't automatically mean you got through it either because the way it and only it works is you press up and down rhythmically and then it starts moving up and down from a little bit into more obvious movement until there's enough momentum to drop under. And jumping on it gets it moving like this but only a little, and no amount of extra jumping will build momentum in that same way.

>>6024139
Because you evidently couldn't figure it out on your own. Because you're stupid.

>>6024204
It's not anything to figure out. You're apparently too stupid to figure this out.

>>6023883
>>6023887
>Haven't played it in a very long time
Thanks for confirming you're a dumbass who bitches about a game with "a not-difficult-but-easy-not-to-do-puzzle" 6 year olds were able to figure out via trial and error.
>it's very easy to simply never start hitting the up and down directionals
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ITS HARD NOT TO PRESS FORWARD AND SPIN DASH FOR 10 SECONDS
So you really are mentally retarded, good to know.
>>6024017
>there's no other point in the history of Sonic
It was the fourth fucking game in the series, and the game prior to that was the gimmicky as shit Sonic CD.

Niggers who bitch about the barrel are the same niggers who think Sonic is all about going fast. You're ADHD over medicated child brain just can't stop and think outside the box (i.e. trying different control methods) for 5 seconds when you aren't coasting through a level.

>>6024239
>whines like a fag about a puzzle elementary schoolers can get past after trying different shit
>NO UR STUPID NOT ME WHY DOESNT SONIC TELL PRESS A TO WIN
>>6024136
>What is the deal with this barrel?
Filtering out casuals who think Sonic should be press A to win.

>>6023901
>That's funny, but to be fair nobody who's complained about the barrel wanted help text.
See >>6021068

>>6024136
Here's a random video of some jackass running into this part of the game for the first time that shows what most people usually do the first time. (he manages to figure it out after two minutes by trying to spin dash on it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaLbuflKGOc

>>6019860
OP IS CORRECT

personally i was compelled to press up and down, i cannot give rhyme nor reason to it

I would be interested if this is as simple as a left brain right brain thing

>>6019860
W r o n g

>>6024270
Yes, it's wrong that grown ass people use this barrel as an excuse to flaunt how lazy and retarded they were as children and how they're still retarded as adults when playing a fucking Sonic game.

>>6023584
The autism was a bonus

>>6023757
It's an opportunity for boomer Chads to dab on virgins that can't into trial and error. It's a Sonic game, it's not like there's much to the controls, just up down left right jump and spin dash

>>6024262
Yeah, that's it exactly. Watch the video and notice how much it seems like jumping in some way (or even bounce jumping with bubble shield which actually gets you more barrel movement than regular jumping but still not enough to go all the way) is what to do there. It kind of looks like you might need to keep jumping until you get to use the barrel to launch you high enough towards the upper area (although if you have the bubble shield and do enough of a bounce launch you can get high enough to see that's a dead end). Pressing up and down doesn't even seem like the answer after you try that because it takes a good while before it builds up enough movement to be noticeable as a distinct effect from just jumping on it.

>>6024280
>not being a lazy retard
>autistic
/vr/ - casual central
>>6024284
>it's not like there's much to the controls, just up down left right jump and spin dash
Fucking this. That this still fries so many brains is an embarrassment.

>>6024291
I think anon posted that video just to validate how stupid you are.
>because it takes a good while before it builds up enough movement to be noticeable
>a few seconds of gaining momentum
>a good while
Pick one.

>>6019889
Sega considered it bad game design so much they removed it in the main Sonic Jam version.

>>6024297
A few seconds is all it takes to not notice it and stop trying. It's not really intuitive to keep on pressing up and down when your initial feedback of trying that makes it seem like you just got a little motion from jumping on it.
That's what you don't seem to understand here. It's not about it being hard or some puzzle to figure out. The point is how easy it is to not start motioning up and down and continuing long enough to see something validating happen.
It's also kind of stupid to act like this was obvious when it's famous for how not obvious it was. Nobody actually believes the bullshit after fact angry rants about how much the diamond patterns were hint arrows or how some tortured analogy to moving through the drain in Hydrocity was the same sort of thing.

>>6024254
>It was the fourth fucking game in the series
Yes, congrats on counting. What does that have to do with anything. Having previous games doesn't annul terrible design.
>>6024072
>trying something else until it does?
Which is why people were trying to jump to increase the barrel's momentum, since given all clues, this is a possible solution. Did you just answer your own rhetoric??

>>6024314
>A few seconds is all it takes to not notice it and be a lazy faggot without using your brain.
We know you're a clinically diagnosed retard anon, no need to keep driving it.
>It's also kind of stupid to act like this was obvious when it's famous for how not obvious it was
By other retards who think Sonic is just press forward to win.
>Nobody actually believes the bullshit after fact angry rants about how much the diamond patterns were hint arrows or how some tortured analogy to moving through the drain in Hydrocity was the same sort of thing.
And no one with a functioning brain stem believes the barrel is so badly designed that it stops you from playing the game until you're an adult who finally reaches the mental maturation of an 8 year old who realizes the dirt simple controls of a Sonic game don't take long fiddle around with.

>>6024317
>What does that have to do with anything. Having previous games
Means that not everything about Sonic is codified into a bible the designers are supposed to follow, nor does it mean they can't tinker around with the design once in awhile.

Being retard who gets stumped by a children's game, it's understandable this would be a hard concept to grasp.

>>6024284
>It's a Sonic game, it's not like there's much to the controls, just up down left right jump and spin dash
Except you never use
>up down [sic]
Anywhere else in the game. It's a shit design in a good game, end of story.

>>6024342
Well, I should say, you rarely use them. And every other time you do, it isn't for a platform that bounces downward when you jump on it

>>6024342
>fiddling with a 3 button and 1 dpad controller for 2 seconds is HAAAARD WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
You're a retard who gets mad at a game for children, end of story.

>>6023584
See
>>6021834
Ignoring context clues and doing something nonsensical to solve a problem is pretty autistic. That just happens to work on this case

>>6024348
I got past it after a few tries. It's still bad game design. You being autistic doesn't changed that.

>>6024348
>>6024354
To add, it's be like if Mario had a section where you needed to press the shoulder buttons on alternation in one spot, and only one spot, to advance. It's just retarded. I can only figure it's CWC tier Sonic fanboys defending this.

>>6024354
>I got past it after a few tries
And I got past it 1. It's a curve ball meant to stagger impatient fucktards like yourself. You being the medical definition of a moron doesn't change that.

>>6024358
To add, maybe you shouldn't be impatient and use whatever little gray matter you had developed in your alcoholic mother's womb. I can only figure it's DSP tier retards REEEEEEing at this.

>>6024363
Ten minutes of my life didn't mean much, especially back then. It's still bad game design, spergo.

>>6024359
You also see:
>>6024368

>>6024323
>And no one with a functioning brain stem believes the barrel is so badly designed
Except for everyone who called into the support line to the point where they needed to add a custom message on their IVR specifically for the barrel you intentionally dense dipshit. And the fucking developers themselves who apologized and removed it from the re-release with Sonic Jam.

>>6024368
>Ten minutes of my life
>taking ten fucking minutes to solve a basic basic obstacle on a 3 button controller
Have you thought about killing yourself?
>>6024373
>Except for everyone who called into the support line
So more retards then?
>the fucking developers themselves who apologized and removed it from the re-release with Sonic Jam.
And then kept in every single re-release of the game.

>>6024317
But it doesn't work. Which is your cue to stop jumping and try something else.

>>6019860
Who started this meme? It isn't funny. Naturally you would try to spin dash after the bouncing didn't work. I know we're getting desperate for new things to discuss, but can we leave this one behind? I beat the game many times as a kid and barely even remember this part.

>>6024379
>3 button controller
What did the on the spectrum fanboy mean by this?

>>6024381
Spin dash didn't help. You had to do the up down shit.
It'd be like "hm, the door doesn't open. Should I find an alternate route or look for a key? Nah, I'll just smash my dick with a hammer. Hey, it worked!"

>>6024379
>>6024381
Name three other times without google-ing that developers felt they had to remove an obstacle from a game because it was so easy not to get.

>>6024384
>A B C
>not 3 buttons
>thinking Start counts when that just pauses the game
What did the impatient mathematically challenged retard mean by this?

sonic 2 is piss easy compared to the first game

>>6024393
None, because it wasn't until this thread that apparently there are enough screaming tards out there that they can developers bend to their whims over a fucking barrel.

>>6024402
This is Sonic 3.

>>6024403
Yes anon, when large numbers of people all have the same issue with a design element that means they're wrong and the design was great.
Retard.

>>6024406
And apparently Sega took their criticism so much to heart that they kept the barrel in every single re-release of the game.
Retard.

>>6024408
Not Sonic Jam.

>>6024395
None of those buttons solve the barrel problem. A tilt switch is with a buttons underneath is still a button, ultimately.
Also,
>not owning the abc xyz model
Well, you're a deprived fag and a dumb sperg.

>>6024412
tilt switch with buttons*

>>6024404
i know, just a little off topic comment lol

>>6024408
>they kept the barrel in every single re-release of the game
They didn't. Are you admitting you're wrong now?

>>6024418
Are saying the Sonic 3 rom sold on digital store fronts like VC and Steam are modified, retard?
>>6024412
>None of those buttons solve the barrel problem
No shit dumbass, that's when you use the dpad. You sound like the kind of dumbshit who decides to walk outside naked when you find your chosen pair clothes don't fit you instead of looking for something else in your closet.

>>6024431
>No shit dumbass, that's when you use the dpad. You sound like the kind of dumbshit who decides to walk outside naked when you find your chosen pair clothes don't fit you instead of looking for something else in your closet.
Ironically, you just described the people that did retarded sperg shit and got the intended outcome as a result.
See:
>>6024390

>>6024431
I don't think you understand what "every" means.

>>6024431
>Are saying the Sonic 3 rom sold on digital store fronts like VC and Steam are modified, retard?
See >>6024410

Was so bad that there's official merchandise about the design problem you can buy from the Sega store.
https://shop.sega.com/products/sonic-barrel-of-doom-mug
>SONIC BARREL OF DOOM MUG
>Best reserved for the most trying times in your life, pull out this Barrel of Doom mug and remember, if you got past the Barrel of Doom, you can get past anything.
Also I remember the designer apologized later and they cut it from Sonic 3 in that Saturn Sonic Jam compilation.

>>6024438
>>6024439
Sorry, I guess since you're autistic you can't figure out I meant every re-released post Jam.
>>6024445
>designer apologized later
I want to see this fucking apology.
>there's official merchandise
Wow, Sega merchandised memeshit from Sonic, like they haven't done that before.

>>6024439
Also
>specifically mention digital store fronts
>NUH UH THIS VERSION ONLY RELEASED ON SATURN
Are you illiterate?

>>6024456
>>6024460

>>6024380
>But it doesn't work.
Jumping accelerates the barrel and gives the impression that it is a possible solution. These is the opposite of demonstrating that it doesn't work.

>>6024460
No, but you are:
>>6024408
>they kept the barrel in every single re-release of the game
^Doesn't say digital there, does it? Kind of looks like you were wrong.

>>6024461
>ARE THESE DIGITALLY RELEASED VERSIONS MODIFIED TOO
>SATURN EXCLUSIVE JAM IS

>>6024468
>mention every re-release excluding Jam since you already mentioned it
>NO UR WRONG BECAUSE U DIDN'T SPECIFY JAM
Christ no wonder you need the game to directly explain to how to barrel. That you need everything to be that specific because you can't pick up on context is pretty autistic

>>6024472
Nobody mentioned Jam before that post. You simply made an idiot out of yourself.

>>6024472
It's pretty autistic not to understand how a design feature so bad it caused a flood of support line callers and resulted in public apologies from the developers and removal from the first compilation with it afterwards isn't a user problem. There's more support for this not being a user problem than almost any other video game hang-up you can come up with.

>>6024474
>Nobody mentioned
>>6024303
>>6021232
And it's only casual mode. I'm sorry you need to play on easy not to have a tard fit at kid's game. And please learn to read.

>>6024480
Nobody mentioned it to *you*. Guess you're too autistic to read between the lines.

>>6024472
Care to link to said post to prove this isn't just damage control? You never excluded any remake until people pointed out your rampant fanboyism was in direct opposition to factual reality.

>>6024476
And it's really sad to use other retards as validation to you being lazy and dumb. There's more support for this not being a casual problem than almost any other video game hang-up you can come up with.
>>6024483
>Nobody mentioned it to *you*.
>thinks that this is reddit where every thing is a confined gay threaded discussion.
>thinks you can't specify other posts on an anonymous image board when arguing with someone
Well that explains a lot, you clearly post on some other shit hole known for corralling the mentally enfeebled. Please take your dumbassery there.

>>6024487
Going on a tirade about Reddit because of being proven wrong is pretty autistic, anon.

>>6024486
>Care to
Read the thread? Yes I have.
>>6024303
>>6021232

>You never excluded any remake
What else is there besides Jam's baby mode?

>>6024490
Thinking that I'm wrong because I'm the only one entertaining you whinging and moaning about a simple puzzle is pretty retarded anon.

>>6024465
But it doesn't work. If you do something for 5 minutes and it doesn't work, then you should try something different. How is that hard to understand?

>>6024504
Anon, I'll save you the trouble
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IT'S BAD DESIGN SEE THE EASY MODE IN THIS ONE RE-RELEASE FROM 20 YEARS AGO PROVES ME RIGHT AND NAKA APOLOGIZED FOR IT AT A A SONIC MEME CONVENTION THEREFORE I'M RIGHT

>>6024508
You might want to take your meds. Defending bad game design out of some misplaced sense of loyalty is the least of your worries.

>>6024508
Thank you anon. Very cool.

>>6024492
All you're proving is that you were too illiterate or ignorant to read and retain those post. Where specifically did you say that doesn't count beforehand, and why should it be discounted?

>>6024513
You might want to see your handler, getting mad over simple puzzles and pointing one re-release of the game with an easy and an apologize made to cater autistics is sign you have serious trauma anon. Doesn't help you can't follow a thread.

>>6024523
Acknowledgement of bad game design doesn't confer anger, Anon. At least it doesn't for me. Projection?
I've gotten more angry at Tetris than any game, and it's peak game design.

people actually had trouble with the barrel? i thought it was just a stupid nitpick created by ecelebs or something.

>>6024487
>And it's really sad to use other retards as validation to you being lazy and dumb.
I didn't get stuck on the barrel (though to be fair I had a magazine guide before even getting up to it and the author made a point of warning you this section trips everyone up so I will never know if I would have known to do the weird up / down build momentum shit spontaneously or not).
I just recognize it's obviously a bad design. If you have enough players calling in confused and not knowing what you were getting at with how that part of the level works then it's pretty clear it's a design problem. Totally different from a challenging game section that takes skill to get through.
One reason these two things are different is immersion. The latter requires you to get good within the context of the video game world. That's nice and promotes further immersion i.e. you're getting more into it as you go. The former takes you out of the game and has you becoming self-conscious about being stuck in some uneventful little area where the way to progress is just a simple prolonged alternating key press sequence but one you have a very good chance of not doing, especially because you get more immediate positive feedback (motion in this case) from jumping and little to no feedback from pressing up and down unless you keep at it for a bit.

>>6024526
No, very simple minded people genuinely had trouble with it, and like to call other people retarded for not having trouble with it.

>>6024526
>people actually had trouble with the barrel?
See, you guys keep thinking about it wrong. It's not about trouble or difficulty or challenge or any of that shit. It's about how easy it is to never begin hitting up and then down and then up again repeatedly until the barrel moves enough to give you the idea that doing this is actually going to help things. It's just easy to miss, that's all.

>>6024539
They won't grasp this, they're literally autistic. They probably mashed the controller for five minutes in a fit and we're rewarded for it, hence the stauch, stubborn defense of it being "challenging" "gameplay".

>>6024520
>why should it be discounted
For one, it's an easy mode. Two, learn how to follow a thread newfag.
>people mention Jam and it's casual mode
>*I* mention that OTHER RELEASES, including ones like on Steam, are the original game with no barrel removed, indicating Sega doesn't really think it's big deal that some dumbshits take 5 fucking minutes to solve barrel
>Where specifically did you say that doesn't count beforehand
Because OTHER ANONS MENTIONED IT

All you're proving is that you can't follow a thread. Lurk for 5 years. I capitalized things for emphasis just in case your autistic brain can't follow. Just like how Sonic Team should've indicated to you how to beat a child's game
>>6024525
>Acknowledgement of my own retardation design doesn't confer anger, Anon.
Well I'm glad to know you've decided to play the cool guy to save face and are content with being perpetually brain dead, I'm proud of you anon.
>>6024530
>a bit.
It's a puzzle that required some trail and error and not being impatient. Players calling in because they're fucking retards isn't an argument, that just means they were impatient kids who can't play video games.

>>6024545
Dude. You alright?

>>6024539
>It's not about trouble or difficulty
>>6024542
>I TOOK ME FIVE MINUTES TO SOLVE BASIC SHIT
Sounds like it was difficult for impatient dumbasses hence the staunch "ITS BAD DESIGN"

>>6024545
>>6024547
Goddammit I fucked up my spoiler.
>>6024525
>Acknowledgement of my own retardation design doesn't confer anger, Anon.
Well I'm glad to know you've decided to play the cool guy to save face and are content with being perpetually brain dead, I'm proud of you anon.
>>6024530
>a bit.
It's a puzzle that required some trail and error and not being impatient. Players calling in because they're fucking retards isn't an argument, that just means they were impatient kids who can't play video games.

>>6024549
Ask me how I know you never had a chance or the desire to play kickball with the neighbors, or play their games.
Not everyone has the autism to obsess over one game. I ended up returning to an action game with fun puzzles, LttP.
Don't get me wrong, the Genesis Sonics are some of my favorite games. But that is just bad design; they've admitted it themselves. Simple as.

>>6024552
It's an argument in aggregate.
One or two players having trouble is a user problem.
Enough players that you have to alter your IVR to add a custom message about a fucking barrel just to be able to maintain service levels on your call center traffic is not a user problem.

>>6024554
You're the autistic one. How does any of what that post said translate to "obsessing over one game"? You're arguing a point that doesn't exist.

>>6024554
>Not everyone has the autism to obsess over one game. I ended up returning to an action game
How does it feel to drop a game meant for children after having a tard fit over one puzzle?
>But that is just bad design; they've pandered to Sonic autistics at a convention once.
And yet dozens of releases THAT ARE NOT SONIC JAM'S EASY MODE (see, I capitalized it for you) kept it in.
>>6024558
And just because dumbfuck kids had a problem playing one puzzle in one of the most hyped games from 1994 isn't an argument. You think Nintendo didn't get a deluge of retards asking how to beat a Mario puzzle that someone with patience could figure out?

>>6024569
>>6024575
It's an assumption, but one that is likely within your standard deviance.
Further, I didn't drop the game. When one kid found out, we all knew.

>>6024579

I was 6 when I played this and it was the first game I owned, at what point are you allowed to think this barrel is fucking stupid?

>>6024584
Read a book, cretin.

>>6019860
You're right, it wasn't challenging, it was poorly designed.

>>6024549
>Sounds like it was difficult for impatient dumbasses hence the staunch "ITS BAD DESIGN"
Go look at this thread >>6019860. It's an argument about whether or not the barrel is bad design. This is a thread that outright wouldn't exist in the first place if not for the sheer amount of people who got stuck at this specific roadblock. Whether you personally didn't have trouble solving it or not doesn't change the fact that enough people did for this section of the game to become infamous to begin with. An area that's notorious to the point where Sega themselves literally sell merchandise joking about how many people got stuck in that spot. If that many people get stuck at a roadblock which you yourself continuously assert isn't difficult, then that's about as close to objectively bad game design as you can get.

>>6019860
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XeBgeN5uG8

>>6024504
It takes longer than 5 minutes to establish that jumping to increase the barrel's momentum is not the solution.
That's kinda the basis of this whole discussion.

>>6024695
You're not kidding, are you?
It's been a while since I've been floored by someone's insistence on being completely wrong. You've impressed me. Good job, anon. There really is no limit to human stupidity.

>>6024701
>I beat it at age 6 therefore my personal anecdote is enough of a sampling size
Seriously blow a goat

>>6024701
Ive gotten through by jumping.

>>6024719
Why are you so proud of being less intelligent than a child?

>autistic newfag still at it.
>>6024620
>Go look at this thread we're in
Nigger, are that fucking stupid?
>>6024695
>>6024660
>>6024719
>taking even longer than 5 minutes to barrel
Holy shit, my condolences to your caretaker.
>>6024732
Because Naka pandered to autistics who can't play game that involves fiddling around with up, down, left, right, jump.

I've never witnessed someone being this angry over having something to gloat about

>>6024752
>Nigger, are that fucking stupid?
You're the one in the thread who clearly can't see it.

>>6024752
In that case, let's clarify which point you're trying to make, since you've been bouncing around between points for the entire thread.
>You call the people who got stuck here retards, but you don't deny that an unreasonable number of people got stuck here given how easy the "puzzle" was (even though you believe them to be stupid for getting stuck)
>You acknowledge that the barrel wasn't meant to be difficult
>You say that the barrel was not bad game design, despite a large number of people getting stuck on what the developers intended to be an easy part of the game
I don't believe all three of these statements can be true at once. If people didn't get stuck here at all, then the game was working as intended (good game design). If the barrel was meant to be difficult and people got stuck on it, then the game was working as intended (good game design). If the barrel was meant to be easy, yet a disproportionate number of people got stuck here, then the developers failed to predict how the player would interact with the puzzle (which isn't a sign of good game design). Or perhaps you don't agree that developers who account for different actions a player can take is a sign of good game design?

Or maybe you don't know what point you're trying to make and you're more focused on calling people stupid than discussing the merits of the puzzle?

>>6024954
Do you really think you've only been talking to one person this whole time? Lmfao.

>ITT: rabid Sonic fans defend shitty design that wouldn't be tolerated in a Mario game, while calling others retarded.
I beat Sonic 3 when I was young and it doesn't invalidate the fact that the barrel felt completely out of place. You can even love the game as I do and think that, it's ok.

>>6024954
It's usually a faggot that beat the game when he was 18 months old and decides that his singular criticism is the word of proper game design.
If there's an element that disrupts the flow for a major portion of the players, then that dictates that it wasn't communicated well enough. It's that simple.

>taking five to ten minutes to press up and down on a dpad
>"hard"
>using Sonic Jam's casual mode as an excuse the barrel is hard
>playing a sonic game on easy mode to beat it

The issue is that if you time your jumps just right, you can make it go down, yet it never manages to go all the way to the bottom, so I dedicated several time-outs trying to nail the timing.
But that approach is unreasonably hard, so that's when I changed my approach.

The mechanic was thrown out of nowhere, and nothing in its design or the level implies that you must stand still pressing up and down. Putting some arrow patterns on it would have solved the issue instantly.
It was just plain bad design.

If you want to see a "hidden" mechanic done right, look at Super Metroid.

>>6024342
>>6024346
Doesn't matter if you don't use it anywhere else. Try stuff until it works. That's what trial and error is. There's very few buttons, shouldn't take you that long.
>>6024354
Right, I'm the retard because I could figure it out quicker than you. lmao.

>>6025696
>Putting some arrow patterns on it would have solved the issue instantly.
You mean on the barrel itself? Because the design on the barrel literally points up and down

>>6024445
Wow, the up and down arrows are even more prominent on this cup. Dumbass.

>>6025696
No, just making the barrel not react to jumping on it would have completely fixed it.

>>6025714
>>6025718
Ah yes, I too instantly think of up and down arrows when I see the diamond suit in a casino themed stage.

>>6025851
How could this possibly have been any more clear to you? A glowing neon sign? Omochao swooping in saying "PRESS UP AND DOWN YOU MONGOLOID"? Seriously, how?

>>6025718
>>6025870
Don't pretend you interpreted diamonds on the barrel as a hint to press up and down directionals when you were playing it as a kid you dishonest autist.

>>6025870

Hi anon, I'm not anybody you've been arguing with. I've never played this game. I've only seen this barrel in threads like this on /vr/. It never even occurred to me that those might be arrows. They don't look much like arrows. They don't look entirely unlike arrows, but the commonality isn't great enough that I'd expect anybody to have intended them to be interpreted as arrows by a naive viewer. You're just being a weirdo.

>>6025718
>>6025870
Shut the fuck up, guy
They're positive/negative space triangles. And they're also pointing to the four corner directions if you want to get technical. It's so transparent and contrived that you're finding things to hide behind. I'm convinced this is a troll.

>>6026050
>>6026008
>>6025967
>>6025870
I AM YELLING WORDS BECAUSE I R IN DENIAL BECAUSE I ARE AM RIGHTS

>>6025870
Fix'd for you.

sure wish these zoomer threads talking about the fucking sonic 3 barrel would die... man wouldnt that be swell.

>>6025967
>>6026008
>>6026050
>>6026161
Sorry you have no imagination and are blind buddy, don't take it out on me because you're dumb. Smart people figured it out very easily. Its like a video game IQ test, and you're sub 100

Why, yes, I play Sonic the Hedgehog series for challenging mind-bending brainteasers and intellectually stimulating puzzles. How could you tell?

>>6026280
That's not at all what we're saying. What we're saying is that design wasn't meant to communicate that interaction. You reaching for reasons that just happen to coincide doesn't make terrible game design acceptable. This type of "barrel room" doesn't fit with the flow of a Sonic game at all.

>>6026339
>What we're saying is that design wasn't meant to communicate that interaction.
Says you, because you don't know what a context clue is.
>. You reaching for reasons that just happen to coincide doesn't make terrible game design acceptable.
Excuses. Again, the hint is right on the barrel, it's not a coincidence that there's a solid black line dividing the diamond shapes into two arrows pointing up and down. It's not a giant flashing neon sign, it's not a voice over telling you exactly what to do, It's a clue. You're being obtuse.
>This type of "barrel room" doesn't fit with the flow of a Sonic game at all.
You only think this because you're an Adventure babby that needs disembodied spirits, robot chao, and floating television monitors to tell you exactly how to solve every puzzle.

>>6024445
Guys, I don't understand how to use this cup. If I toss it up from the counter to my face, I can sometimes get coffee in my mouth. Should I just keep trying that motion until I get the hang of it?

>>6026362
Clearly it wasn't a particularly good hint if so many people still got stuck in that area regardless.

>>6026415
It's a good enough hint if your IQ is 100+.

>>6021156
>If you don't guess this it's not necessarily likely you'll ever do what's needed there without someone or something else telling you about it.
You are in a one screen room with literally only one thing to interact with and a controller with 8 inputs on it. Arguably it's shitty game design, but there is no reason someone couldn't figure it out. within a minute or two, even if they didn't understand what they did fully

>>6023430
SEETHING

>>6026434
>le 8 inputs
Not entirely accurate. Again, pressing Up or Down will only nudge the barrel, whereas jumping creates increasing impetus.

>200+ replies for a stupid barrel
the absolute state of /vr/

>>6026545
Until you wise up and realize you're not going to make it by jumping and you try something else. Or if you're the average /vr/ tard, you time out multiple times jumping on the barrel over and over because you simply can't understand the concept of trying different buttons

>>6026585
Don't bother, they don't understand the concept of things not working, they think if you bash your head against a brick wall, the brick wall will cave in instead of their skill smashing inwards (eg the time limit running out)

>>6026585
From the youtube video posted earlier in the thread, look at how low you can get the barrel just by jumping on it. If you get the barrel this close to going down, you're not going to think "this isn't working", you're going to think "the timing of the last jump is hard".

>>6026650
And we've got another one.

You're right, but there was nothing all that great about Sonic 3, either. I don't know why people think it's revisionism to say it and Knuckles were disappointing when audiences were extremely fickle for new tech back then, it coming out right on the hinge of a new gen. I can still remember when I was a kid, S&K was brand new, and overhearing people say the best thing about it was having an excuse to play Sonic 2 again.

>>6026670
Persistent, I'll give you that.

Iizuka publically apologized for it.

>>6024456
>I want to see this fucking apology.
https://youtu.be/3XeBgeN5uG8

>>6026712
Iizuka didn't work on any of the original Sonic games, so who cares what he does. He's the Koji Igarashi of the Sonic franchise.

>>6026737
Wrong. Iizuka worked on Sonic 3, and he is the creator of the barrel. >>6026715

>>6022905
Lies, it's Sonic 2 and they never officially called it a barrel until people started complaining on the internet.

>>6026681
The only persistent ones are the ones who are or are pretending they are retarded enough to not figure out a children's game.

>>6026738
Prove it.

>>6027452
>Prove it.
Iizuka outright states he's the one who programmed the barrel in the video.

>>6023157
This. And the fact that the barrel reacts to you jumping on it at all was a huge mistake and is more of a misdirection than anything else. So there aren't THREE hints at what to do. There are two irrelevant sitations and a misdirection.

I never even had this game as a kid. Was there a reason for the barrel to move when you jump on it at all? Seems like a weird thing to program in when it didn't actually do anything. If they hadn't made the barrel do that, nobody would have had an issue figuring out up and down.

>>6026650
>you're going to think "the timing of the last jump is hard"
This. People forget how hard old games were, especially if you grew up on certain NES games. There was some unforgiving shit. This would not have been out of the ordinary at all.

>>6019860
Honestly, I found Hydrocity Zone and Marble Garden Zone so fucking drawn-out and boring that I rarely even made it that far, anyway. Sonic 3's levels really kind of sucked.

>>6024015
lmao christ almighty

>>6019878
I found it to be the opposite, as a child I figured it out right away while all the kids older than 10 couldn't get past it. Later as an adult I had totally forgotten it and based on the reasoning that Sonic never moves anything without touching it otherwise, being a creature with only purely kinetic abilities and no technology or psionics of any kind, couldn't figure out how to make that darn thing move.

In the mushroom forest he has to physically grab pulleys to see-saw upward, in hydrocity mode he is ostensible in a moving current of water, when it's with tails, tails is physically motivating their passage through the air.

The barrel is not an elevator because an elevator has buttons. The barrel is a magic device that reads Sonic's mind and moves because he wills it to, if it had some fucking buttons everyone would know what it is, but it doesn't; it's just a stupid dumb magical barrel that defies the logic of the entire series.

This shit is full retarded. You should build up momentum by jumping on it, that makes way more sense.

Everyone who had problems figuring it out is a fucking retard
/thread

>>6028225
This. I really didn't even know people had an issue with it until seeing people complain about it on the internet. It's funny too since most of these are the same people complaining about games being too handholdy now a-days

>>6019889
>control character that moves up and down
>telepathicly connect with barrel and tell it to move
>>6023974
You do it at beggining of the game, not near the end of it.

>>6027143
I dont recall the actual phrasing but there was a pre-recorded message telling you what to do there, presumably because they were getting so many calls about it.

>>6028795
So no proof, just memory. Got it.

>>6019860
Doesn't matter, played through this game so much I can actually pass through the barrel jumping quite easily now.

>>6019860
>tfw used to get a bubble shield and glitch through the barrel through bouncing before knowing I could just press up and down on it when I was a toddler.