/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6007842
That's more of a hypothesis than a theory.

>>6007842
Thats dumb. Iwata actually helped out the developers of mother 3 all the way until 2000.

Gunpei Yokoi was whacked by Yamauchi's yakuza buddies for the failure of the virtual boy.

>>6007842
Is that why Fire Emblem 64 was also shitcanned until the GBA?

>>6007842
>thinking any Earthbound ever had a chance of overshadowing any Zelda
Good one.

Or maybe because Mother 3 sucks and they knew that no one would buy it.

The Sega Saturn was an intentional plot by Sega of Japan to undermine the Western side of Sega. Development on the Dreamcast had actually started long before the Saturn was released, with the original Dreamcast initially designed as a machine to play The House of the Dead 1, hence the name of the console. However, due to the inadequacies of Sega of America, they decided to release the Saturn as a pure scam, to milk wealthy, ignorant Western gamers out of their money, only to soon release the superior Dreamcast, to make Western buyers mad at Sega of America, thereby killing that branch of the company. Most of the Saturns in Japan were intentionally sold well below their supposed MSRP, because the Japanese market was well aware of the console's born-to-die status, and Sega of Japan had no reason to anger their Japanese buyers. Shenmue was never in development for the Saturn, that was ALWAYS a Dreamcast title, the early footage was just them getting used to the Dreamcast hardware. When Bernie Stolar caught wise, he made his infamous comment, trying to save the Western market from being duped by Sega of Japan.

>>6007962
Actually, it was the 32X and Saturn. SoJ approved SoA making the 32X, knowing that their Saturn would come out soon and overshadow it, supposedly putting SoA in its place.

>>6007842
>If there was one game that was able to overshadow OOT
Adds to your theory that this got repeatedly raped

>>6007842
Ever since the PC Engine CD-Rom2 came out the Japanese have realized that CDs were the medium for RPG's and not cartridges. So once the next generation of consoles came out and were CD. that's what they wanted to stick to. They had their fill with the SNES.

>>6007842
A true gaming conspiracy is that Sega of Japan shitcanned the American-made fighting game series Eternal Champions in favor of the Japanese-made Virtua Fighter. Eternal Champions was clearly the better game, but a combination of racism on the part of the Japanese and a desire for 3D graphics lead them to promote Virtua Fighter instead.

>>6007842
To even think that a developer has such a retarded way of thinking is beyond me.
FF7 didnt came out for the N64 simply because the cartridges were too small.

>>6007842
So the real reason is that HAL went bankrupt. They're one of those companies that still technically exists but really only in name. They basically just became Nintendo's Kirby factory. In reality, most of the people that mattered left the company in the late '90s to early 2000s, including Sakurai. So Nintendo just cannibalized them and cut their losses on the N64 game because it was going to take another 2 years to finish the programming, and they were almost ready to unveil the Gamecube. Japanese game companies overreaching the scope of their ability and leaving shit unfinished is a tale as old as time.

The other reason is that they realized midway through development that it sucked as a 3D game. I mean, look at the thing. Some of these screenshots look pretty brutal. If you read between the lines from what different people involved said, they more or less outright admit this.

>If there was one game that was able to overshadow OOT it's undeniably a 64-bit sequel to Earthbound

I always liked the theory that Secret of Evermore was originally much darker and edgier in production, but was toned down and painted over with cartoon violence to try and make it "Nintendo friendly"

https://rainwoodworks.blogspot.com/2010/09/secret-of-evermore-was-one-of-my.html

Stuff like some of the beta screenshots from magazines, music and some of the concept art lends it some weight, but it's likely if it were true that most of this was changed VERY early on and aside from the weird music not much of it was ever realized.

>>6007842
>Well there you go. If there was one game that was able to overshadow OOT it's undeniably a 64-bit sequel to Earthbound which already had a little cult following in 1998
just like EB overshadowed LttP, huh

>>6007984
No wonder people think Sega fans are retarded

>>6007842
There you go bud, as a longtime Earthbound fan it struck me that 3D takes away a lot of the series' surreality, and diminishes that fantastical feeling it has to dilute it into something far more generic, rote, off the production line, etc etc. It took something whimsical and stripped it of all whimsy and magic. It made something utterly childlike and yet somehow strangely mature, just like that not-quite-fully-developed character it has you play, somewhere between the dismal sense of reality and sorrow, and that magic and whimsy of creative imagination.

Frankly, I'm surprised Itoi wanted to try 3D at all. I'd believe a lot, but that a Mother series game threatened anything-- least of all a Zelda title-- is just not something I can take and that's coming from someone who's been in absolute love with the series for many years.
It just isn't thunder in a bottle like that. I'd say it's far more likely that they all saw it in 3D and thought-- what a pity. Anything that made Earthbound charming was almost strictly in its flavour, and a lot of that would be lost with 3D graphics because it removes a layer of that whimsical imagination.

Maybe if I say whimsy one more time I'll start getting paid.

>>6008029
You havent played eternal champions cd

>>6008094
Were talking about n64 3d here bud. The most soulful 3d there is

>>6008098
>soulful
Well I'll work on getting my head that far up my ass so I can see it from your point of view but it's been a hot year since I've been able to bend myself quite so flexibly.

Until then, N64 3D in that format isn't probably what was needed. something more to the effect of Ogre Battle 64 might have gone over better but in general, the styles hadn't quite developed for the kind of goofy 3D it would benefit from. That stiff, FF7 levels of "we're trying I swear" would have made for an ugly and underwhelming experience.

>>6008103
Blow it out your ass

>wanting blocky, foggy, slow as fuck, low FPS Mother 3
I don't get the people who wanted Earthbound 64. All the screenshots look like shit.

That's some Steven L. Kent bullshit, OP

>>6007842
Zelda isn't an rpg though, why would it be competing with Earthbound

>>6008231
Motherfags are similar to autists if not literal autists. It should have been pretty obvious as soon as you read "If there was one game that was able to overshadow OOT it's undeniably a 64-bit sequel to Earthbound". This statement alone demonstrates a profound disconnection with reality far beyond a simple Nintendrone.

>>6008416
you're no better than these people, though. console/brand warring is a mental disease.

>>6007842
Does your brain really operate this way? I wish I could somehow instantly make you understand how utterly retarded you are without years of work

>>6008427
"Console warring", aka having personal preferences, is totally normal. It's being triggered by it like you are that's the actual mental illness.

>>6008616
I have preferences for individual games, not brands.
I feel sorry for you.

>>6008026
well if we're talking about 2019 standards and legacy both games gave us then yes, EB overshadowed LTTP since it's mentioned a shittones more than Zelda, got more fanatic fans than zelda and is even more expensive than zelda.

>>6007842
"The Mother series proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay in an RPG as long as it's 'quirtky'." - Shigeru Miyamoto

"The Mother series proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay in an RPG as long as it's 'quirky'." - Shigeru Miyamoto

>>6008964
Literally every bit of why OOT was so magical was stolen or inspired by Mother 2.

>>6007842
I still have dreams about being able to play this game. I hope one day one of the later versions is leaked.

>>6008094
That's entirely in your head, and Itoi wanted 3D because he saw them like puppets or dolls that could be moved and positioned as he wanted with little regard to the coding that was needed. I think the 3D looks soulful as fuck, and would have loved this version over the gimped, empty GBA version. The N64 version was meant to be a 60 hour game, while the GBA version is sub 15. Despite you prefering the graphics, the 2D version is a complete downgrade.

>>6008094
Yeah, it wouldn't be Earthbound without its shit looking graphics.

>>6007984
This is a LIE. Or do you think that this shitty Mortal Kombat wannabe could be big as Virtua Fighter 2 would be?

> Eternal Champions was clearly the better game
AHAHAHA, no. Eternal Champions had nothing new to offer, it was just another bad edgy western fighting game while Virtua Fighter was the next step in fighting games. Also, only Americans played Eternal Champions.
The Eternal Champions developer is just salty.

>>6007984
>Eternal Champions was clearly the better game

lol no

The only thing it has going for it is its sprite work.

>>6007842
#squallisdead

Square Enix purposefully delayed calling for a cease and desist on Chrono Resurrection out of spite because the company is run by assholes.
I don't believe the other conspiracy, but I'm sure some do here.

Ura Zelda was completed but never released because the 64DD had too low sales. Master Quest is not Ura Zelda because it's a standalone game and the only changes are the dungeons and not anything that would need the rewritable capabilities of the 64DD.

SNES was originally going to have NES compatibility which is why Nintendo went with a 65816 instead of a 68k.

>>6008616
Exactly this, I specifically said that Nintendronery (while a bit narrow minded) is nothing compared to claiming that "Earthbound could overshadow Zelda"

>>6008629
Then why were you triggered by a term like "Nintendrone" which describes exactly the sort of person you claim to feel sorry for?

>>6009818
Your wife was underage (and 10 years younger than you) when you met her

>>6009824
ikr - hot

>>6009837
It was pathetic m8, you were scared of having your dick evaluated by a woman with experience, so you had to groom a little girl.

>>6009841
Why should he care what used goods thought of his dick?

>>6009841
>implying I didn't fuck your mom back in the day

>>6009892
This guy gets it.

It's not really what they thought of my dick (overwhelmingly positive reviews) it's that I didn't want to marry someone with a bunch of hangup from their previous bad experiences I had nothing to do with her they invariably projected onto me sooner or later.

I ain't Baggage Gramps.

>>6009841 #
>implying I didn't fuck your mom back in the day

>>6009892 #
This guy gets it.

It's not really what they thought of my dick (overwhelmingly positive reviews) it's that I didn't want to marry someone with a bunch of hangups from their previous bad experiences I had nothing to do with yet they invariably projected onto me sooner or later.

I ain't Baggage Gramps.

Wait, we're still having this gramps faggot writing fanfiction?
I thought this board was free from him. Back to square 0 I guess, this board is doomed.

>>6009920
>I ain't Baggage Gramps.
You've gotta say that since you keep getting your trip banned for dredging in unrelated polshit

>>6009938
Babbage's Gramps is personal non-grata. I'm a technically distinct character who merely has a functionally identical backstory and writing style. If anything that should encourage you that it's twice as possible to have a life like mine.

>>6009956
>to have a life like mine
being on 4chan all the time writing about your fanfictioned youth? Yeah I mean, doesn't sound too far-fetched, but still sad.
Seriously, leave faggot.

>>6009952
It makes me a little sad that my clever wordplay goes uncomprehended but I assure you I only ever "dredge" up opinions or anecdotes when they relate to the topic of retro gaming or in replying. I suppose my greatest sin is egotism and I should be more brief in my dismissal of off-topic personal comments.

>>6009978
At first I thought you were kind of OK, like when you first started using babbage's gramps around and generally trying to be a nice guy and helpful.
But then I noticed most of your posts were giving wrong information, never knew if on purpose, or you just got most of your facts wrong.

>>6009961
The proof is in the pudding

>>6009979
I've issued an open invitation for you or anyone wise who makes these kind of claims to demonstrate any wrong information I've given without acknowledging my mistake in the archive.

>>6007842
But OoT isn't an RPG. And Earthbound "competed" with LttP by that standard, as Mother 1 did with Zelda 1 and 2. And Mother 3 wasn't canceled just because Spirit Tracks or whatever was on GBA.

But most importantly Zelda games are not RPGs. I don't know why this lie caught on but it needs to stop. It is as much an RPG as Metroid or Mario games. Which is not at all.

>>6009984
I'm not wasting time doing any search work, anyway most of your posts are offtopic, but I mean, when they happen to be on-topic, they were wrong (not subjectively wrong, but actually dead wrong information).

Thought you'd all enjoy this, it's me watching some home movies with the wife. Later on we did a live action recreation of Beat 'Em and Eat 'Em and thanks to me, Tyrell scored 2,000,000 points--an all-time record!

>>6009991
>you're wrong about everything but I won't show a single example of you being wrong about anything (without acknowledging it)
It seems like you have very clear memories of all kinds of these instances so it should be really easy for you to look them up. I wouldn't have used a name if I wasn't confident in both the quality and accuracy of my posts.

>>6009995
I like how you chose to shoop in gay porn rather than cuck porn. Says a lot right there, Anon.

>>6009991
I admit that I post a lot of stuff quickly without thinking it through and sometimes it's not exactly correct. Maybe you've all been right all along, and I've been seeking attention by using a trip and should just post anonymously like everyone else.

>>6010026
>sometimes it's not exactly correct.
Most of the time it's complete bullshit. Post with a trip or anonymously. Just as long as it's not here.

Aerith is a whore

>>6010293
Jesus Christ you can't even recognize when someone is obviously not me. I honestly think that people like you who say I was "always posting bullshit" or "constantly posting off topic /pol/ shit" and yet refuse to cite any examples of their complaints are delusional.

>>6010026
I mean, I do snap off posts pretty quickly and off the top of my head but I like to think that when anyone actually puts forth a cogent counterpoint or links me to deeper or fresher information than what I know that I am a good sport about it. I try to even thank people when they make me aware of stuff that actually matters to me, like in that Optiplex thread I had no idea that shady IPTV providers had become as prolific as they are and it's probably going to make for some good Christmas presents for my close family members.

>>6010306
>Jesus Christ you can't even recognize when someone is obviously not me.
based schizo

>>6010306
Stop pretending to be me. This isn't funny anymore.

>>6010313
>Sorry anons, my brother went on my PC while I was in the bathroom and sent that shitpost haha

>>6007962
>the original Dreamcast initially designed as a machine to play The House of the Dead 1, hence the name of the console.
How does the name relate to House of the Dead?

>>6007984
>true gaming conspiracy
>eternal champions
uh huh. sure whatever you say champ.

>>6010306
>namefag
>shipost
>it obviously wasn't me
obviously

>>6010771
I'm crying now. I hope you're happy. I know I'm a namefag but I have feelings.

>>6009817
Fake and gay. Nintendo didn't even want to make a successor to the NES until NEC and Sega forced their hand.

>>6007842

Sorry OP. Your thread was kind of interesting but then a narcissist made it about himself. But I imagine you're at least helping to protect other threads from him for a while.

>>6011028
Yeah what a dick, goes /vr/ even have mods?

>>6009803
>Chrono Cresurrection

>>6007925
I don't believe this because it makes no sense to assassinate Yokoi but not his less competent replacement Sakamoto.

>>6007842
They literally didn't even finish the game retard.

>>6009803
>Square Enix purposefully delayed calling for a cease and desist on Chrono Resurrection out of spite because the company is run by assholes.

The cease and desist happened because the creators of Chrono Resurrection contacted Square Enix to publish their game, got no answers, and being the "passionate fans" they are, went directly to E3 with a playable build and tried shopping it around to other publishers.

Square Enix were working on Chrono Breaker (which they shelved later, and eventually released a game that reuses the rejected script, Final Fantasy Dimensions 2) as well as a port of Chrono Trigger for the NDS that might have released for the GBA had it not been phased out.

Had Square Enix not responded decisively to Chrono Resurrection by that point, it would have started a legal domino effect in the US that ends up with them losing the trademark to a million seller series.

>>6008964
btw the quote was real

>>6011205
There's no source for that quote though, other than fucking Steven L. Kent.
He should keep himself to writing military fiction.

>>6007925
Yokoi was wacked because Yamauchi was terrified of what he'd make for Bandai. Remember, Sony created the Playstation explicitly to get back at Nintendo for backing out of their CD add-on deal. The idea of another megacorp having a genuine leg-up on Nintendo was too much for him to take.

Yamauchi is also the reason why people think the Virtual Boy is Yokoi's fault. Yokoi postponed his own retirement to help them develop it and pretty directly told them when he left that it was basically still in Alpha and needed more work. When it flopped, Yamauchi came up with the whole "it was all his fault and he left because he was a failure to us." thing.

>>6007962
Question: why would Sega of Japan purposely try to kill the one major market where they were more than in a distant 3rd place but had actually successfully challenged Nintendo on a level that no other company had up til then?

>>6007984
>Eternal Champions
First time I ever read this name

Watched the overkill video on youtube and man, I had a chuckle but wonder how could this be a good fighter

>>6011180
So the idiocy of fan-projects extends that far back, huh?

>>6011205
Just scan the original article and there will be an end to the horror.

>>6011180
>it would have started a legal domino effect in the US that ends up with them losing the trademark to a million seller series.
name one time this actually happened

>>6008948
If more fantastic = more insufferable, I guess you're right.

ALTTP is still generally regarded as the best SNES game ever made, practically perfect in every way. Earthbound is a cult favorite whose legacy has grown over the years based on its charm and offbeat, quirky style. But it's not an all-time classic, at least not on the same level as ALTTP.

>>6009990
Miyamoto and Yuji Horii both have called Zelda an RPG. Are you saying they are lying?

>>6011537
How trademark works is that the holder as to prosecute ANY infringement, or lose the ability to enforce it altogether. Essentially, if Square hadn't stopped them from shopping out their game, they could no longer claim a trademark on Chrono Trigger or anything related therein.

>>6011604
The Japanese consider everything D&D/Fantasy based an RPG if its a video game.

>>6011625
I repeat: name one time this actually happened

>>6011634
Appstore, for one. Apple owned the trademark on it, but ended up abandoning it because it couldn't be enforced since "appstore" started becoming a generic term. In fact, tons of generic names for products in the West were once trademarked name brands.
Or are you asking for a specific time when the trademark on a video game has been lost? Because trademark law is pretty clear on the whole "police it or lose it" stuff. Microsoft dropped the trademark for Blinx and Dragon Warrior got to be called Dragon Quest in the West because Dungeons and Dragons abandoned their Dragon Quest side series.

Or are you asking specifically if someone has tried to sell a property that they don't own the trademark/copyright to and were successfully able to win the ensuring infringement case and allowed to continue selling their product?

>>6011205
I fully believe Miyamoto thought this, but I don't believe he'd ever say it to a journalist.

>>6009999

>>6011287
He IS the fucking source. He interviewed Miyamoto who said it directly to him. Presumably very few people, if anybody besides Tim Stamper, were in the room. So, not only is he a primary source, he is the only possible source anyway.

>>6011532
Afaik it's not part of the 1995 article. I haven't read it, but someone on Twitter claimed access to it:
>Sorry, they do talk about tech but there's nothing remotely like that in here.
>I'm away from it but he does have a quote in there in the context of game design challenges where he says that he doesn't like when marketing dictates his creativity but that's the closest thing, and there's nothing suggesting it's about DKC

Miyamoto himself later said
>The first point that I want to make is that I actually worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. And apparently recently some rumour got out that I didn't really like that game? I just want to clarify that that's not the case, because I was very involved in that. And even emailing almost daily with Tim Stamper right up until the end.

This only came to light after Kent mentioned it in his book and in the G4 episode, and we KNOW for a fact that he interviewed Miyamoto and Stamper.
Maybe it's a bit of sensationalism (just like when Kent said Miyamoto was "marking his territory") and maybe the tone of the quote was misconveyed, or the translation wasn't perfect, but there are multiple sources that corroborate that Miyamoto's first art style for Yoshi's Island was rejected- that he was asked to do what DKC did, which upset him.

>The statement saying that he hated the game was based on something he said when Nintendo was trying to force him to use the same graphical style for SMW2. Saying that “players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good” was not a dig at DKC as much as it was his way of saying that he did not need fancy pre-rendered computer imagery to make his new game work.

Bottom line- the quote is real.

>>6011205
Buttmad nip

>>6011180
>The cease and desist happened because the creators of Chrono Resurrection contacted Square Enix to publish their game
no fucking way LOL

>>6011028
>>6011032
I didn't make it about myself, >>6009824 made it about me.

>>6011842
I'll never understand why people do shit like this,
"HEY, BIG NAME COMPANY! I MADE A BRAND NEW GAME BASED OFF OF ONE OF YOUR IPs; WANT TO BUY IT FROM ME AND PUBLISH IT?"

>>6008015
OH MU GOOOODDD

I ALWAYS THOUGHT REPITLE WAS LOOKING AWAY FROM THE CAMERA - AND WE SAW ONLY THE SIDE OF HIS FACE

HE IS LOOKING AT THE CAMERA !!!! OH MY GUUUUUUD

>>6007842
another reason Miyamoto needs to fuck off already

>>6008948
no, its just Smash-grown Mother secondaries jerking off to Mother garbage again

>>6011287
>there's no source
>posted the source
fucking idiot

>>6011731
>>6011982
Ok, Steven. I'm pretty sure Miaymoto said that, yeah sure.

>>6011989
why are you in denial? he's not wrong anyways
just look at Brawl and Smash 4

>>6009803
Good. It would have been shitty low poly 3D with average lighting and boring animations. Also they would have either completely ripped off the sound track selling it as their own, or some nobody would make an uninspired rendition of a classic sound track.

>>6011995
>why are you in denial? he's not wrong anyways
Mostly because, who the fuck is Steven L. Kent? and why should I trust a guy who mostly wrote military sci-fi fiction?
Miyamoto himself (who actually worked with Rare for DKC) said that the quote was fake. I'm not saying I'll trust anything Miyamoto says, but in this case? Yeah, I'll trust the guy who actually worked with Rare, rather than some planted journo who mostly writes fiction.
>just look at Brawl and Smash 4
No idea what you're referring to, and not retro.

>>6012005
Also also, does this Kent guy speaks Japanese? This is important to know.

>>6012005
>No idea what you're referring to, and not retro.
nice cop out
Brawl and Smash 4 are perfect examples of what he's talking about
you get good looking artstyle and graphics but mediocre gameplay on top of that
and they sell alot despite the mediocre gameplay it offers and not living up the hype of whatever shitty choice people wanted

>>6007962
well, that sounds a little counter-productive

>>6012019
Huh, I dunno, I never played any Smash game after N64.
Anyway, yeah obviously people care more about graphics, it has always been like that, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this steven guy being full of bullshit about Miyamoto dissing DKC.

>>6011458
SoJ hated SoA

>>6011851
>i acknowledge I'm a narcissist but it was totally someone else who made it about me
LMAO kiddo

>>6007842
SquareSoft was infiltrated by Hollywood through Kingdom Hearts and the finanical failures of The Spirits Within because Disney saw them as a potential threat to their future stake in the art, animation and storytelling medium
The extreme proficiency of Square at the time was capable of pushing and combining the capabilities of 2D and 3D art together in ways that exceeded Hollywood's expectations.
Squares success in the games medium was going in strides, via displaying groundbreaking CGI to the point it outperformed the visuals from those connected to Hollywood itself, and big financers demanded that agents were to try and figure out to stop this competition from taking the lead, in case a project in the works could outperform their own.
To do so, coverts disguised as inconspicuous artists headed to Japan and woo over Square's employees, just to work within the company to dismantle it from the inside and send back ideas and secrets to help those situated across the waters.
Other options to stop this from happening is tha they would causing friction, division within the organisastion, making workers leave and cause development issues with games. staff and other such projects by deploying malware and bad morale within the company and their files of code, but while making sure that they had to heavily rely on them in the process to keep them afloat and away from financial trouble.

>>6012005
>Mostly because, who the fuck is Steven L. Kent? and why should I trust a guy who mostly wrote military sci-fi fiction?
Because he did video games journalism for decades and interviewed Miyamoto for a publication. He only became a sci-fi writer like in 2006. All he did before that was games journalism. You can dig up hundreds of his articles.
>Miyamoto himself (who actually worked with Rare for DKC) said that the quote was fake
False. Miyamoto said he doesn't actually hate DKC and that he was upset because of Yoshi's Island. Rven the journos that interviewed him after that believe the quote was real because he never denied it and because it's kind of obvious.

>>6012010
No idea desu. He has written like over 130 articles for Japan Times but they're all in English. He might be somewhat familiar with Japanese culture. I think they must have had a translator from Nintendo.

>>6012774
>Rven the journos that interviewed him after that believe the quote was real because he never denied it

https://www.ign.com/articles/2010/06/17/e3-2010-shigeru-miyamoto-likes-donkey-kong-country-after-all

>Miyamoto: The first point that I want to make is that I actually worked very closely with Rare on the original Donkey Kong Country. And apparently recently some rumor got out that I didn't really like that game? I just want to clarify that that's not the case

Whether you believe him or not is, of course...

>>6007925
Betcha Iwata's sudden turn of health was aided by some polonium sushi, after the failure of the Wii

>>6009817
Never understood Nintendo didn’t get hash at overclock speed rate of the "Apple modified" 65816 at 7.1/7.5 or work by itself to market tri-star style NES compatibility?

>>6012793
Wii U-4K*

>>6012790
Are you mentally challenged or something? That interview was already posted by me earlier. He addresses the rumor that he hates the game. He never said that the quote was fake. We had known that he worked on DKC since at least that time in 1995 when he was interviewed by the journalist that quoted Miyamoto to begin with.

>>6009695
>The only thing it has going for it is its sprite work.
Bullshit. It also had native support for the Sega Activator.
Good sprite work AND a gimmick motion controller.

>>6012804
>He addresses the rumor that he hates the game. He never said that the quote was fake
Well, he did say "I just want to clarify that that's not the case", regarding the rumor. He also specifically called it a rumor, basically confirming that's what it is.
Now, I think I get your point you're saying that what he's referring to is the fact that he doesn't hate DKC, but that he still said that "players will put with.." quote. But I'm still not convinced. Nobody can even find the supposed interview, and the only real source is this Kent guy's book.

>>6007842
Sega of Japan purposely sabatoged Sega of America in the mid 1990s because their success made Sega of Japan look bad.

>>6013019
>Now, I think I get your point you're saying that what he's referring to is the fact that he doesn't hate DKC, but that he still said that "players will put with.."
Exactly right. As stated before, I think Kent possibly sensationalized it somewhat, but it was never denied, and it rings true for Miyamoto to be upset- supposedly this was merely 1 month after Miyamoto got told off by execs for not making DKC style sprites for Yoshi's Island, which he still refused to do (and exec meddling is mentioned in the interview).

>But I'm still not convinced. Nobody can even find the supposed interview, and the only real source is this Kent guy's book.
As stated previously, the printed 1995 interview is very hard to come by and supposedly does not contain the quote in question. However, the important thing is that the printed interview in the magazine was never claimed as a source for that quote. The source for the claim is Kent himself, and the other published writings including this infamous quote are treated as a primary source for being written by a person present during the alleged event. Now, he didn't print it in the magazine, but Miyamoto's rightful anger and his apparent rudeness to Stamper stuck with Kent so much that he told the story 6 years later, as a primary source, in his book (the first ever written instance of this claim, supposedly), and then repeated the story on TV another 3 years after. He was as legitimate a game journalist as it gets and there was never any legitimate dispute over this quote until a few retards googled his name and just thought he was some normie making shit up about vidya.

>>6008094
I thought it was pretty soulful.
Like the caricatures of Mr. T but applied to everything.

I thought it was pretty soulful.
Like the caricatures of Mr. T but applied to everything.

>>6007842
The lack of RPGs on n64 can easily be explained by the insufficient storage space of ROM carts. JRPGs of the time had a heavy focus on imagery, FMV cutscenes, and other stuff like this that took a lot of storage space.

>>6011537
Hasbro with most of its Transformers names from 95 till about 2007
They lost about 65 names from both professional and fan ran companies.
Another example is TMNT comic and TV trademarks in international waters where people would grab the rights by simply publishing some 1 page comic in a book and it would lock them in as the holders of the brand in that country.

>>6013163
>The source for the claim is Kent himself
Well, that's the thing.
>He was as legitimate a game journalist as it gets
Not setting the bar very high
>I think Kent possibly sensationalized it somewhat
Or entirely made it up.
Now, I'd be interested to know if Stamper ever said anything on the matter himself.

>>6012793
>>6007925
>>6011435
>>6011163
did you know Hiroshi Yamauchi wasn't actually a human being? He was a vessel that enclosed 7 yakuza oni spirits from 7 different regions in Japan. These oni monopolized the gambling in Japan with the hanafuda Nintendo cards and put a spell so that no other company could produce cards, truly evil.

Yamauchi, often referred to as "大魔王 ティラノ天堂" (Great Evil King Tyranotendo), tyranized the video games market with his monopolic practises, it is said that the Master System or the PC Engine didn't actually ever exist, and that they were invented time after so hide the fact that the Famicom was actually the one and only console existing in Japan.

>>6013559
BASED

>>6007842
>>6013295
It's not that there were NO RPGs on the N64. Hopefully you're both simply stating that there was a drought of RPGs, and not a total nonexistence.

Pic related.

>>6013535
>Well, that's the thing.
What's the thing? It's one thing to doubt a story with just one source, or doubt a secondary source, but his status as primary source for this story is undeniable. The man talked to Miyamoto face-to-face and then wrote about one of those exchanges, which has never been denied. The entire "Miyamoto hates DKC rumor" started basically because of that quote, and it got so big that Miyamoto got word of it and addressed it, yet he never came out and said "oh, no, I never said this quote that was attributed to me".
>Not setting the bar very high
I guess that's supposed to be derogatory of the profession, but he did everything that would be expected. He tracked down stories and sources for his non-fiction books and articles, he reported accurately on events he covered, he interviewed key people, he wrote editorials, etc. What do you want from the guy? What is your problem with his journalism? Have you even read any of it? Of course not, you (assuming you are the same poster as before) thought he was just a "military sci-fi writer".

>Now, I'd be interested to know if Stamper ever said anything on the matter himself.
Pic related is actually an excerpt I just found from the 1995 interview by Kent. Does it look made up too?

>>6013576
>yet he never came out and said "oh, no, I never said this quote that was attributed to me".
He did address it as a rumor though. There's different ways you can look at it, you can go "oh, he wasn't SPECIFIC about the quote", but to me, his implication was that the whole Kent claim was a rumor, and a fake one at that.
Anyway, you seem too defensive of this Kent guy... I don't know why.
>Pic related is actually an excerpt I just found from the 1995 interview by Kent. Does it look made up too?
I don't know, if it's also from Steven Kent, yeah I wouldn't trust it 100%. Also, I asked if Stamper himself said anything on the matter, like him directly, not through Kent's books.

>>6013585
>Anyway, you seem too defensive of this Kent guy... I don't know why.
If I seem defensive it's because you seem offensive. I don't know why either, since his bio says he has a BA in journalism and an MA in communications, and had worked as a freelance journalist from 1994 to 2005 and written for publications since 1987. Where is the doubt on him coming from? I respect journalists and historians and the process they undergo.

>I asked if Stamper himself said anything on the matter, like him directly
He hasn't. He would probably not say anything even if he had something to say about it.

>>6013621
Getting degrees in communication doesn't mean you can't be dishonest. Especially on an entertainment subject like video games.
>He hasn't. He would probably not say anything even if he had something to say about it.
Why? Someone should ask Stamper. With Miyamoto, or any japanese person, it's trickier since it's always translation-based and there can be things lost in between.

>>6009817
LuigiBlood disagrees.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/luigiblood.tumblr.com/post/174252638878/we-need-to-talk-about-ura-zelda-people/amp

>>6013668
>LuigiBlood is wrong

>>6013668
>google.com
>/amp/
>tumblr
wew

>>6013628
>Getting degrees in communication
BA in journalism
>Especially on an entertainment subject like video games
So? Kent has done a lot of legitimate historical commentary and unprecedented journalism work.

>The first time I interviewed Shigeru Miyamoto, he still wondered why an American journalist wanted to chat with him.
-Steven L. Kent

Kent was a big admirer of Miyamoto and was even accused of being given favors by Nintendo and you think he would make up some shit just to stir up drama? You seriously have no idea about what journalism is

>Why? Someone should ask Stamper. With Miyamoto, or any japanese person, it's trickier since it's always translation-based and there can be things lost in between.
Because he's a very reserved person who owes his career to Miyamoto and Nintendo and who probably doesn't understand Japanese. You fucking goof.

>>6013783
>You fucking goof.
See? defensive as fuck. And I'm not being even THAT offensive to Mr. Kent, just saying I think the Miyamoto quote is bullshit.
Having a BA in journalism still doesn't prevent him from making up shit.
>was even accused of being given favors by Nintendo and you think he would make up some shit just to stir up drama?
I don't think he tried to stir up drama, just make his book a bit more interesting, maybe. The "drama", if there was any, wasn't even between Miyamoto and Stamper, but online where people parrot that quote endlessly as some sort of "DID YOU KNOW DOKI DOKI" except the source is fishy and most likely false.
Also wait
>accused of being given favors by Nintendo
lol, is this true? if so, the plot thickens. maybe nintendo stopped "giving him favors" and that's why he wrote that, but still, I think it was less of an attack at Miyamoto, and more a way to "dramatize" Miyamoto's character for his book.
>Because he's a very reserved person who owes his career to Miyamoto and Nintendo and who probably doesn't understand Japanese
He doesn't need to understand Japanese, just talk if that interview between Miyamoto, Kent and him really happened, and if Miyamoto really said that. Unless Kent actually knows Japanese and talked directly to Miyamoto.

>>6011961

>>6011205
>colleague is an Englishman
>berates Americans instead, anyway
It's true what they say. "Rent free"

>>6013057
But that's not a conspiracy; that's 100% the truth.

>>6014006
According to ex-Sega of America guys.

>>6013571
It was
> Quest 64
>Aidyn Chronicles
>Tactis Ogre
>...

>>6014017
shiren 2 nigga

>>6013904
>See? defensive as fuck.
You said something really nonsensical that needs to be addressed immediately. What you postulated was that Stamper might say "oh, he never said that" while saying the translation might have been a problem at the same time, and ignoring the fact that Stamper himself needed a translator. Now you are posing that the interview never happened to begin with, despite the magazine literally slapping a photo-op of the two of them together that they took during their visit on the front cover of the issue.

>just make his book a bit more interesting
It's literally one sentence in a book that's 800 pages long

>except the source is fishy and most likely false
Already demonstrated time and time again- the SOURCE is not FALSE. The SOURCE is as legitimate as it gets. You are posing that the CLAIM of the source is false. This is an important distinction.

>if so, the plot thickens. maybe nintendo stopped "giving him favors" and that's why he wrote that
At least look up what you're talking about even once. This is what's annoying- if you want to discuss this topic legitimately, do your research. One of his colleagues got mad that he was being flown out to places like Japan. Kent also interviewed Miyamoto many times, including AFTER publishing his 2nd book.

>>6014439
you seem angry

>>6014472
Ok? Is that all you have to contribute?

>>6014017
Paper Mario

>>6007842
>thinking EB had a following anywhere but JP until 2002-2003
lol

>>6014439
>What you postulated was that Stamper might say "oh, he never said that"
I just asked if Stamper ever said anything on the matter, I didn't postulate what you said. Even if there was a translator and neither Kent nor Stamper know Japanese, I'd take Stamper's word a lot more seriously than Kent's. I know that you disagree with me and you respect Kent and take his word as truth, but I'd trust Stamper more.
>It's literally one sentence in a book that's 800 pages long
And probably the single most (in)famous part of his whole book.
>At least look up what you're talking about even once. This is what's annoying- if you want to discuss this topic legitimately, do your research
I never claimed to be an expert at knowing about video game journo gossip, of course I didn't know about this whole "nintendo gave Kent favors" thing you're talking about, that's why I asked, humbly.

>>6015249
>I'd take Stamper's word a lot more seriously than Kent's. I know that you disagree with me and you respect Kent and take his word as truth, but I'd trust Stamper more.
That's unfortunate because Kent is a reputable former journalist and Stamper is very reserved and a lot of the information that we have on the Stampers at all comes from Kent's reporting and talking to them directly.

>And probably the single most (in)famous part of his whole book.
Actually, you know what, itt's not even "one sentence". It's literally just a footnote after Yoshi's Island is mentioned. It was a completely throwaway anecdote in the general scheme of the book.

>I never claimed to be an expert at knowing about video game journo gossip
Journalists can't afford a lifestyle of flying all over the world and getting into all kinds of events, and especially not freelance ones. Kent was often invited to Japan. One colleague of his got angry at that

>There was a guy who worked for a San Francisco newspaper, and he accused the entire press of being bought out. [...]The only way I could ever cover something [...] was if for instance, Nintendo said, "Hey, would you like to interview Shigeru Miyamoto? We'll fly you out." That was the only way I could ever interview Shigeru Miyamoto. And so, if Nintendo offered to fly me out to Japan to interview Shigeru Miyamoto, I took it. I never hid it. I was very open about it.
>He was a journalist and he accused us of all being on the take. And the thing that was really funny about that was I had met him once. [...] We were all staying at a Four Seasons hotel in California. There he was, staying in the Four Seasons with the rest of us, a guest of Virgin Interactive just like the rest of us. But once he was out and he wasn't being taken on trips anymore, he got really good at pointing fingers at people.

Also one time in Japan he got asked by Square what he was gonna write about their presser they invited him to and he told them to fuck off

>>6015492
>That's unfortunate
It is. You respect Kent a lot, that's fine. I'm not gonna trust every thing he says on his book, simple as. Nothing that we have discussed so far made me change my mind.
>a fucking footnote
And yet it happens to be the most quoted part of the book, that was my point.
>Journalists can't afford a lifestyle of flying all over the world and getting into all kinds of events
Right, I never claimed otherwise or anything, my reply was to you calling me out for "not doing my research" on anecdotes like that. You evidently take video game journalism seriously and like to read about it even on a meta way, I don't care. My whole point in this discussion is that, no matter how "reputable" or how many degrees he has, I'll not believe him on everything he says, and the one time Miyamoto was asked about that anecdote on the footnote of Kent's book, Miyamoto addressed it as a "rumor", and denied it. You claim semantics and how Miyamoto wasn't specific about it word-by-word, but by that argument we can go back to the Kent interview and we also don't know how specific that translator was, word-by-word. Fact of the matter is: Miyamoto got asked, denied. I'll trust the game developer, not the journalist who writes books for cash.

>>6011634
>Apple owned the trademark on it, but ended up abandoning it because it couldn't be enforced since "appstore" started becoming a generic term
https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/appletmlist.html
Ctrl-F "app store". You are dead fucking wrong. Kleenex, Band-Aid, and Photoshop are still registered trademarks, despite those words commonly used as generic nouns/verbs in popular lexicon.

>Microsoft dropped the trademark for Blinx Dragon Warrior got to be called Dragon Quest in the West because Dungeons and Dragons
abandoned their Dragon Quest side series.
Microsoft and Hasbro abandoned their trademarks precisely because they're never ever going to make anything related to those properties again. And the tabletop game DragonQuest wasn't a D&D side series, it was a completely original IP/game whose maker had been bought out by the D&D people earlier in the decade, and itself had to change the name before release (from DragonSlayer because Disney had a film come out around the same time called "Dragonslayer")

>>6007842
Except Mother 3 was in development after Ocarina and wasn't cancelled until 3 or 4 years later. So you'd have to be pretty fucking retarded to believe such a thing.

>>6015635
>And yet it happens to be the most quoted part of the book, that was my point.
It's a footnote, bro. There are plenty of other quotes parts, such as the ones providing info on the Stampers that comes exclusively from Kent.

>You evidently take video game journalism seriously and like to read about it even on a meta way
No. "Video game journalism" as a whole is garbage, but I do take journalism and historians seriously. Everything that was in his book was acquired directly through himself and I honestly had no idea when I had set out to ascertain the authenticity of this Miyamoto quote that I'd find a source as rock solid as this. Another good game journalist example is George Weidman- because he also has a real journalism background.

> the one time Miyamoto was asked about that anecdote on the footnote of Kent's book, Miyamoto addressed it as a "rumor", and denied it. You claim semantics and how Miyamoto wasn't specific about it word-by-word, but by that argument we can go back to the Kent interview and we also don't know how specific that translator was
You're still not addressing how Miyamoto's first response to that story came from Kent himself, within the same material. As it follows, Kent says that in a subsequent interview, Miyamoto followed up by saying he was just upset about Yoshi's Island, which is what that ENTIRE footnote was about.

If you need proof about the Yoshi's Island story that isn't from Kent (or someone that uses Kent as a source), here you go:
I've compiled a new image. At the bottom left you can see a strategy guide from 2017 that was done in official partnership with Nintendo (more than just the regular 'official licensing'). In the Yoshi's Island section, there's a part that says
>Due to the success of Donkey Kong Country, a similar CG visual style was considered for Yoshi's Island before swinging the completely opposite direction. Early CG graphics can still be seen in some of the game's cinematics.

>>6016634
>it is real
It's not.

>>6016635
Yes it is, buddy. Even the people publishing Miyamoto's later statements have always considered the quote to come from a reputable source and to be authentic. No one in the industry has ever ever ever doubted its authenticity when reporting on Miyamoto's stance on DKC, they merely added posterior clarifications- "oh haha Miyamoto just got a little mad, he actually was a consultant on the game you know :^)". In all the time I spent researching this, not once have I ever come across another person in the industry even questioning it, and that includes everyone that has ever reported on Miyamoto's stance and everyone that has ever interviewed Kent. It has been wholly established by now and the burden of proof at this point is on the people trying to claim it is false.

All I see are buttblasted nintendies that think "nooooooooooo he would never say this about my DKC >:(". Another thing that helps the credibility along is that he is completely correct lol

>>6016643
Miyamoto is a hack.

>>6016643
I've been following the discussion along, but you let your trollish intent slide hard on this post.
>nintendies
>filename
So, you're just an obsessed guy. What amazes me is how involved you really are, making all those collage images... reminds me of a certain other annoying poster that's been spamming certain Mario All Stars collages a lot.
I'd give you a 4/10 because you made a guy reply to your shitposts, but I'll have to give 1/10 because you fucked up at the end, and anyway spent too much time doing these shitty collages for it to be called clever trolling.

>>6016643
>745x419
Use original resolution nig

>the miyamoto "dkc is mediocre" quote is real!
Is this a bizarro thread?

>>6016648
>a hack that pioneered an industry and created revolutionary classics time and time again for both 2D and 3D
lol. are ya really gonna let SMB,SMB2,SMB3,Zelda,SMBW,,LTTP,SMB64,OOT go for fucking DKC?

>>6016653
>you let your trollish intent slide hard on this post
The discussion is over at this point and I've given all I could after doing as much research as possible. I like Nintendo as much as the next guy, in fact the last 2 games I've played have been Nintendo exclusives, but everyone denying that Miyamoto quote that I have come across was just a nintendie and rabid DKC fan that goes "oh, what's that? the quote comes from some BOOK some GUY wrote? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH BASED MIYAMOTO ABSOLVED"

>>6016663
>The discussion is over at this point and I've given all I could after doing as much research as possible.
All you did was suck Steven Kent's cock as much as possible. You didn't convince anyone.
And this isn't about defending DKC or Nintendo, LMAO, it's about not engulfing bullshit.

>>6007925
Kek

>>6016665
>All you did was suck Steven Kent's cock as much as possible. You didn't convince anyone.
I wanted to ascertain his reputation since he is a primary source on the quote (and the sole source as wellI) and I found him to be highly reputable. I like good journalists.

If nobody even remotely in the industry has doubted what he said, why do DKC fans? What is their proof that it was made up?

>>6016671
>If nobody even remotely in the industry has doubted what he said, why do DKC fans?
Was it even addressed by anyone in the industry? The only time I remember anyone ever talking about it is Miyamoto himself, on the IGN interview, where he said it wasn't true.
A lot of this book is probably very novelized, something journalists tend to do especially when they write books.

>>6016675
>He said in an interview with Electronic Games magazine around 1994: "Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good." He later backed away from that statement, and it seems that his words were brought on in no small part by the pressure that had been put on his then-current project – Yoshi's Island. Why? Well, because Nintendo now expected all its games to look as good as Donkey Kong Country.
-Ian Dransfiedl, VICE

>it seems that something Shigeru Miyamoto had said in the past about the SNES original has re-surfaced. In a recent interview with IGN, Miyamoto cleared up the situation surrounding claims that he didn't like Donkey Kong Country, despite his involvement in the game's development.
-NintendoLife

>"Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good." Ouch. While this statement would be at home in a 1994 recess debate between a Genesis enthusiast and an SNES fan, it actually comes from Nintendo's golden boy himself, Shigeru Miyamoto.
-Engadget

>Shigeru Miyamoto famously slammed one of Nintendo's most famous games in an interview with Electronic Games back in the 90s. "Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good," he said. He later walked back on that famous quote, but for me, it serves as a reminder of something that a developing industry was learning at the time.
-David Thier, Forbes

>‘Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good’ – Shigeru Miyamoto.* That infamous quote has been retracted many times, and attributed to Miyamoto’s frustration at having his vision for Yoshi’s Island questioned, but we have a hard time disagreeing with it.
-Roger Hargreaves, Metro

and the million other youtubers that used the quote too

>A lot of this book is probably very novelized
What is your basis for this claim? Have you even skimmed it?

>>6016634
>It's a footnote, bro. There are plenty of other quotes parts, such as the ones providing info on the Stampers
Yeah but no other quote from that whole book is as famous as that DKC footnote.
>that I'd find a source as rock solid as this.
But again, this is you believing in Kent. There is no way to be sure if that quote is real or not. The guy could have made it up, or dramatized it and putting extra words that Miyamoto didn't say, etc. I believe this is the case, you don't and that's fine, but you're not convincing me otherwise, and nothing in the picture you posted makes me change my mind about it.
>You're still not addressing how Miyamoto's first response to that story came from Kent himself, within the same material.
I'm ignoring Kent altogether, and focusing on the IGN interview, where Miyamoto denied the "rumor" that originated from Kent's book. That's the whole point.
>At the bottom left you can see a strategy guide from 2017 that was done in official partnership with Nintendo (more than just the regular 'official licensing')
Nothing there really confirms the Kent quote, though.
Basically, to sum it up, you believe Kent is telling the truth because:
-He's a journalist
-At one point Miyamoto was told to make Yoshi's Island with pre-rendered graphics like DKC
I don't believe it's true because:
-He's a journalist
-Miyamoto himself denied the rumor
You may say "no, but Miyamoto didn't specifically refer to what Kent said word-by-word", but by the same logic, the story behind Yoshi's Island and the DKC style graphics don't really spell the Kent quote word-by-word, either.
At this point, let's agree to disagree. You choose to believe Kent, I not so much.
>>6016643
>All I see are buttblasted nintendies that think "nooooooooooo he would never say this about my DKC >:("
I don't think I ever acted like this, or anyone else itt.
>>6016697
Those are all journalists (and youtubers? seriously?).

>>6017240
Fair enough, pal. I'm sure that if you had read more things by/about Kent you might come around to trust him, but you don't have to.

>I don't think I ever acted like this, or anyone else itt.
I meant what I have come across during my research. Many forum posts where people deny it just for the sake of denial and get angry at Miyamoto for saying that and think that Kent is some nobody and then see his 2010 IGN quote and cheer basedfully once again. I understand reasonable doubt and all, but when the quote comes from a reputable journalist (speaking in objective terms as to his accomplishments, such as interviewing Miyamoto many times), and when Miyamoto has been in a few other controversial stories in the past, nothing about it seems incredible, given the full context of the quote and given the fact that DKC is actually very mediocre lol. Unfortunately there is no way for me to contact Kent (as his website is down) or Tim Stamper or anyone involved in the story, so my research ends here.

Agree to disagree.

>>6017320
>and given the fact that DKC is actually very mediocre
Something like Cool Spot is what I'd call mediocre. Nice art style but mediocre gameplay and level design.
DKC I think has both good art and good gameplay/level design. Might be the best western platformer ever made.

>>6012561
Did you see who made Spirits within? It was almost entirely gaijin talent in Hawaii. As expected, it was visually spectacular, but the story sucked and we all know who wrote that story... Hideo kojima.