/vr/ - Retro Games

Buy an off brand computer and kick it into a wall every so often. It'll be flawless W95 emulation

PCem

>>6003465
What I can expect? Is it any better then virtualbox?

>Tiberium Sun
Have you tried this version?

https://cnc-comm.com/tiberian-sun/downloads/the-game/installer

>>6003479
I didn't because I don't trust freeware applications from third party websites. Instead I tried to manually install patches which this version should provide. So I have download original game with patch 2.03, installed it on virtualbox and used wireshark to check if there was no shady traffic going out of the box. It seemed that everything was clean so then I installed it on my host computer and I installed ts-ddraw dll from github. The results were erratic. It helped me to fix missing menu problems but at the same time game started to crash more often. I decided to reinstall it because I thought that maybe I have damaged something in the process of experimenting but after that game just refused to work at all with ts-ddraw dll. I have no idea what might have happened.

It would be easier if I had other computer on which I could just freely install any random stuff from internet but I don't. And I am too afraid to do that with with my computer

>>6003512
>I don't trust freeware applications from third party websites
Seems legit to me.

There's always openRA if you want to play red alert or original C&C with modern features and improvements. Its open source.

openra.net

>>6003524
Its main focus is multiplayer but its really well made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93b7TKooj-M

>>6003524
Yeah, openRA would be cool but unfortunately there is still no Tiberian Sun support. I hope they will add it eventually. Oh well, maybe I will play red alert instead.

>>6003460
What about VMs ?

>>6003530
Virtualbox usually fails like in my case. One time I decided to install windows 98 for the heck of it and it worked super buggy and required dozens of patches and workarounds to be stable. And forget about gaming, you will just have to use windows XP which is better supported. You can expect all kinds of glitches and crashes. Even if game will work well it's still a bit uncomfortable to play because of how mouse behaves. I will try PCem one day like one of the anons suggest but I don't have high hopes.

>>6003553
No wonder, since Virtualbox is for installing and trying out OS's instead of trying to be accurate hardware emulation. Notice how Virtualbox demands generic drivers for everything?

>>6003512
About

>>6003524
Privacy

>>6003512
Community

>>6003460
>Find Quake 1 cd
>find WinQuake file from 199x
>run it perfectly on Win10 X64

>>6003589
>>6003592
>>6003594
Well I am pretty sure that all of software they provide is legit. I can even vouch for it for myself as I tested some. But still I don't like when I have to download exe file which does everything for me behind the scenes. Maybe I am paranoid but who isn't in this day and age.

having a PC with Win98 installed is great fun if you ask me

>>6003739
I want to have a pc with win98 too. Or XP. I want to go back to simpler times.

>>6003460
GOG thankfully has made these easier to play, but even then some of them crash constantly. It's a shame, because that was hands down the best era for PC games ever.

>>6003471
You can expect most games that don't use 3d graphics to work fine

>>6003860
be careful, I already build 3 of those damn things, and have parts for 3 more
fucking rabbit hole

How about the Windows 3.x era, the forgotten generation of PC gaming?

>>6004137
Easy enough to run through Dosbox. Not that there was a Win 3.1 generation at all. All the real games ran through DOS.

>>6004116
What is this?
>>6004137
>>6004242
Win 3.1 for the most part was just graphical overlay for DOS but I also remember games like this. But I think all those games were simple enough that they will run on any other system?

>>6003595
That was my experience too, on Win7, only sometimes the colors would fuck up, which was caused by Windows Aero, and with most games could usually be solved by writing a small .bat which killed explorer.exe when the game booted up, then started it up when it closed.

>>6003984
>You can expect most games that don't use 3d graphics to work fine

you can install generic SVGA driver on any other VM software and have the same effect. being able to run accelerated games using these obscure and obsolete APIs is a holy grail of Win95/98 emulation.

thankfully most of the """3d""" games made for these systems support software mode

we're doing it man we're making this HAPEN

btw new Virtual Box features an option to quickly build an ISO image with whatever you need to copy over to virtualized system. extra useful for older OS with no guest addons support.

>>6003465
Based.

>>6005301
aw yiss time to play some gaems

you might want to raise execution cap when you play more demanding games but leaving it at 100% at all times will melt your processor because microsoft didn't hear of proper power management back then

>>6005349
there's also a scaled mode which fits machine screen to window so you can maximize the window instead of hurting your eyes looking at small window

sound in MTM2 is definitely buggy though, gotta look into it

i cant get heroes of might and magic 3 to work. i want to die

>>6005361
how
just install the GOG version

>>6005361
Yeah GOG get them for like 2.99 on sale. I think I have all of them up and running again.

>>6005397
>buying games

Just get a Pentium II MMX or are they hard and expensive to get?

>>6003460
Just use old hardware

Pentium 2 or 3 mobo+cpu combos go for 60€, I mean, if you really want to play those games then it's not too expensive yet.

Somebody make Black Dahlia playable without any glitches please

>>6005415
>not buying games on a platform which treats customer with dignity by selling drm free software

>>6004921
As bonus feature mounted Half Life disc plays its music in Winquake lol.

>>6003460
You can play video games on a computer?

>>6005563
Games are a myth. Computers are purely for accountancy.

>>6005561
I played Croc with Hell Awaits in the drive once

>>6005301
I've tried this in the past and could never get proper graphics support, and without a patch the virtual CPU will run at 100% (Win98 runs a locked idle-loop, rather than putting the CPU to sleep)

>WinDoom port was made by Gaben

>>6005561
it's not a bug, that's how video game soundtracks worked back then. they would make a disk containing game data and regular audio cd content and game would just play the tracks it's supposed to play at certain stages

>>6004858
Win3.1 was Win16, 95 and up used Win32. Win3.1 had an extension called Win32s that would allow it to run some programs that were setup to use Win32s to operate similar to an actual Win32 program, and I think Win95 had something that would allow you to run Win16 programs since it was supposed to be backwards compatible with Win3.1. Win32s is pretty fucking easy to find for Win3.1 since it usually comes with whatever program requires it. Most games that were released for Win3.1 also had DOS or Win95 versions, usually on the same disk.

As far as I know, you can get most Win3.1 games to run under Win98SE with some effort, but Win16 support was completely broken under XP.

>>6005357
>>6005349
>>6005301
short update - decided that Windows XP will be much better and ditched W98 virtual machine. the games work much better except Bug Too which I had to do a lot of magic tricks to even get it to install.

>>6005809
>Win16 support was completely broken under XP

works on my (virtual) machine
exile 3 works too

>>6005828
Drain Storm had Win95 and NT support, it should work on XP, and Exile 3 is specifically stated to be compatible with 32-bit Windows versions. Do you know what a Win16 game is?

>>6005850
they don't work on 64 bit systems. only on 32 bit systems have the 16-bit subsystem (even Windows 10). wonder why is that?

>>6005809
I never had any real problem getting win3.X apps to run under xp. I could even run win1 and win2 apps if I wanted to. The only issues were programs coded to want an exact number of colors on screen, like something that used 256 color mode.

>>6005867
you can force winxp to run the particular program with 256 colors

>>6005862
>they don't work on 64 bit systems. only on 32 bit systems have the 16-bit subsystem

Well that's clearly not true.

>>6005890
winevdm is cheating

>>6005887
Everyone knows that Anon.

https://www.google.com/search?q=NTVDMx64

>>6005867
>like something that used 256 color mode.
Which was 90% of Win3.1's library. I know of less than 20 Win3.1 games that used 16-bit color.

>>6005964
A lot of games were in 16 colors, but not many refused to run just because you didn't happen to be in that exact mode.

>>6003984
>>6005139
You can also emulate a voodoo1 for muh early 3d gaems (also a voodoo2 if you have a fast PC)

>>6005980
Someone needs to make a DOS mode TSR to let windows 98 think whatever random card was an old recognized card. Something that would pass-through directx/opengl/glide to whatever the real hardware happened to be.

>>6005971
>16 colors
No, 16-bit color is not 16 colors.

>>6006071
Still not very many that were picky about the current mode. Most people didn't have 16 or 24 bit cards to begin with.

>>6006082
1.6 million color mode, sure. But unless you were using a really fucking cheap card you could probably handle 65,000 colors just fine. Damnit anon, now you made me want to try and figure out which video cards didn't support 16-bit color.

>>6006105
The video ram is probably the quickest dirty way of guessing. Sometimes you had to trade colors to get resolution.

>>6005415
So pirate the GOG version, you cheap fag, you'll save those precious $3< and you'll get HoMM3 with all expansions, modern system compat, and no DRM.
The multiplayer still works, too.

>>6005584
It's a bit of a wonky port, particularly the Doom 95 port which is based on it. I remember it wouldn't recognize my mouse, also it had some problems with the intermission map in Doom 1.

>>6005735
True. I first learned that as a kid playing GTA, it started playing the burned music CD I forgot was in the drive when I got into cars. Dimmu Borgir's cover of Burn In Hell was a nice touch for the Tank.

>>6003460
Descent doesn't even work right on Dosbox. I haven't gotten the sound to work on it at all, and I think it runs too fast by default.

>>6005816
Even XP could be dicey at times as I recall. I installed G-Police on a machine with XP once, and I quickly discovered that once it booted after installing, there was no way to get the game to boot again after that, so the solution I figured out was that I would simply have to uninstall and reinstall the game every time I wanted to play it, because apparently only its Installation Wizard had the magic powers to launch that .exe
It was like booting up an old Commodore 64 game, gotta insert the tape and then wait a few minutes.

If there was a more suitable solution to that problem, I didn't know it at the time, Google wasn't much help back then.

>>6006483
Tried playing with the clockspeed?
Also I thought you could set audio up with DosBox? Haven't used it in ages mind.

>>6003860
simpler times? Shit, you're forgetting how Win9x's natural state was having memory leaks and near daily crashes

>>6006569
This. Even Win98SE still had stability issues. That's why so many people were using Windows 2000 even though it was targeted at servers. Then XP came out and suddenly you could take out hung tasks without rebooting the system.

>>6006496
see if data directories and CD drive letter is properly set in register, the games were written with fixed hard/disk drive letters in mind during 95/98 era and NT systems are pretty arbitrary with those

>>6006824
This was like 10 years ago, maybe longer, I don't have that PC anymore.

Magnaram 97

>>6003460
And this is what being a console baby does to your basic, entry-tier skills of managing a PC: you can't even install a game and make it work.

>>6003860
Literally nothing stops you from having a PC set to XP. I mean I get it, you might throw away your calculator somewhere around '12 or '13, but building new one will cost you what? 30? 50 bucks tops? And that assuming you won't just go to a shop selling PC hardware and ask for some left-over clunker they have in storage, sold by someone few years ago for a pack of smokes. Or giving an add for a "server PC"

>>6006569
98 was pretty rickety, but XP, for what it was, wasn't that bad in my memory.

>>6007361
Installing games and software got better with time, but even by Windows 95, the piece of shit we all know and love, you could look at the system requirement sticker on the box, and you had all the shit the label says you need, but then you boot up the game and it just doesn't fucking work anyway.

Say you were like 11 at the time, the game isn't gonna tell you why it doesn't work, if it crashes when trying to boot or you just get a black screen, you don't fucking know what's remotely the problem, and you're a kid, you probably don't know how to fucking address the issue, getting help online could easily be near fruitless. Maybe you have an uncle or older brother who's really good at computers, but he might still need something to work with, he checks the drivers, checks the memory, looks at the registry, tries reinstalling the game, even looks inside the machine to see if anything isn't fully seated or something, and he STILL might just shrug at you and tell you to just go play Nintendo or something, sorry kid.
For every good few dozen games I successfully installed on my own as a little dipshit, there'd be one which just wouldn't run, or had some crippling error.

>>6005361
problem with the DRM not working with CD version on Win10?
>>6005365
>>6006480
Yeah just pirate GOG torrents if you're too cheap.

>>6007531
XP would play almost every Windows game that 98 would play. DOS games were very hit and miss in XP.

>>6008695
>DOS
A WinXP rig should be able to run most DOSBoxed games just fine though. Not a big issue.

>>6006483
Use the SDL port descent rebirth

Here's the games I had back then;
Myst (of course)
Shivers
The Incredible Machine
7th Guest
some titanic game
Island of Dr Brain
Amazon Trail
some kids paint program that was cool
I played the sims on '98 celeron purple HP and it ran like a slideshow and crashed after 20 minutes
and random freeware discs where I never tried the same thing twice. some of this may have been run in msdos

>>6003460
Does anyone know where and what kind of computer can run this OS properly? For games that don't have any working patch for modern PCs.

Install a Linux Distro an play them on WINE.

>>6010619
Linux uses similar hardware to windows 10 though, and the problem is same as OP

I'm lazy so I just used a shitty vmbox running winxp. Getting the sound to work is the biggest challenge so if you want to play right away just forfeit sound.

>>6010590
Something with 512MB of RAM or less and an old enough motherboard not to have a UEFI. The hard drive I think also has to be less than 32-64 GB in size. For a lot of the Win98 era games you have to either rely on source ports or patches, or use a computer from that era. Windows 98 itself doesn't run natively on anything remotely modern.

>>6010634
>hardware

lolwut?!

You seriously have no clue what you are talking about.

Anyway, WINE indeed works fine in most cases.
On the other hand when you are already using VirtualBox etc., why not just install Windows 98SE? Problem also solved.

>>6010706
Addition, and yes, Win 98SE, not fucking XP. On original Computers 95/98 games also didn't work on XP, because XP was the beginning of Windows becoming a huge pile of shit, because of scrapped DOS etc. which many games needed in some way or another, like then scrapped APIs.
Just use 98SE!

>>6010683
>Windows 98 itself doesn't run natively on anything remotely modern

actually you can, as proved by the absolute madman Kugee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFEpHEXBCbA

I recommend this channel if you like messing with vintage windows versions

>>6010713
I'm already using 98 virtual box, is 98SE that different?

>>6011357
>is 98SE that different?

It has quite a few bug fixes over Windows 98, and updates USB support for storage devices and printers, as well as updates sound support. I would use it over the stock Windows 98, myself. It is not hard to find a copy online.

>>6007553
>I was retarded as a kid
>Too retarded to call the phone line in the instruction
>Too retarded to ask the guy in game store to explain why it doesn't work
M'kay

>>6011598
>actually thinks people at Fry's were gonna help you get a game working, or give you a refund if it didn't work
Things were different back then junior. Most people didn't bother to register their shit either, so most people ended up playing the retail version of games and not the final version.

>>6011610
>I am American
Oh, that explains everything. Never mind, now I get you.

>>6010713
>Addition, and yes, Win 98SE, not fucking XP. On original Computers 95/98 games also didn't work on XP, because XP was the beginning of Windows becoming a huge pile of shit, because of scrapped DOS etc. which many games needed in some way or another, like then scrapped APIs.
>Just use 98SE!

Windows XP is a completely different kernel from Windows 95/98/98SE and Windows ME. XP is on the NT kernel, while Windows 98 is part of the 9X kernel. The NT kernel made its debut in 1993 with Windows NT, which was designed for server use. NT was not built off of DOS, like the 9X kernel was. The first public version of Windows to use the NT kernel is Windows 2000. Windows XP is an updated version of Win 2000. Windows ME is the last version of Windows to use the 9X kernel. Windows ME was an attempt to backport all of the Windows 2000 features to the Windows 9X kernel. Also, Windows ME is more restricted with DOS than Windows 98/ 95.

I know its inconvenient to dualboot but use linux+WINE. more accurate with old games than modern windows.
if you want a win9X emulator for actual gaming instead of a VM mainly for programs, use x86box.
its still in development and rough around the edges, but I guarantee you its probably in a better state of progress than modern day DOSbox ever will be.
have fun

>>6011598
Didn't help from my memory, at best it'd just be another run down the list of the stuff I already mentioned.

>>6011635
Didn't work here in Europe either. The guy at the counter more often than not was a layman like any other. If you bought it at a supermarket or something, what do you do, go bother the cashiers about it?

>>6003460
MGS. First of all, ULTRA pissed the physical release was so limited I never even SAW it. Second, apparently the real-life cinematics are broken TO THIS DAY. I remember getting the game through...desperate means back in '06, and the IRL cutscenes were broken (was using XP). Today, they're still broken...
And don't get me started on games that WOULDN'T EVEN INSTALL on Win 7 (Fully updated to be fair). I have at least a few dozen that won't install. Off the top of my head: Mad Trax, Hopkins FBI, Thunder Brigade, Spearhead, B-Hunter

On a related note, is there any way to record games on XP without an insane performance hit or is a capture card really the only viable way? Genuinely considering experimenting with putting XP on an HDD since apparently my MB and CPU (theoretically) support it (Athlon X4 870K + AsRock FM2A68M-DG3) I'll probably need an older GPU for it to work tho (RX 460 only works on Win 7 and above, AFAIK).
Any anons got any suggestions? Would be much appreciated...

>>6011950
Can the output be recorded without a huge performance loss with either of those methods? I have a ton of ancient game that aren't on GOG and refuse to even install on my current setup (AMD Athlon X4 870K, 16BGB RAM, RX 460 2GB, Win 7)

>>6011448
I'll give it a shot maybe one of the games will work.

>>6003512
Im currently playing tibsun from that location, its working perfectly and the game is just as great as I remember.

>>6003460
I too missed out on Win95-98 era of games. I went from DOS with a 286=12/386DX-40/486DX4-100 to Windows 2000. I have been saving up for some parts to put together a J-Win98SE machine for all the screensavers and games from the time. I have decided to leave the 6800 out and go with a fx 5500 or VooDoo for palettized textures and fog tables which were a dead end with those cards, but I am still hung up on which to use..

>>6003465
will it run comfortably on a core 2 duo laptop?

>>6010713
xp is far from being the first windows to have not included native dos mode. i'm constantly running into issues trying to get some retro games to run on my win2k rig.

>>6014449

If you are using Windows 98 as your primary OS, I would have to go with the Voodoo 5 5500. The Geforce FX 5500 is a 2003 era graphics card. It was released when Windows XP was the mainline OS. The FX is a DirectX9 card, which is not supported by Windows 98. But there are Windows 98 drivers for the FX 5500, which will support up to Direct X 8.1 on Win 98. The FX 5500 is a faster card than the Voodoo 5 5500. The Voodoo 5 5500 is a 2001 era graphics card, i think it supports DirectX7 max, OpenGL, and Glide. This card will give you more of a Windows 98 feel. While the FX card is an overall more powerful card. Also keep in mind, that Windows 98/SE is limited to I think... 1GB of RAM max. So if your FX 5500 has 256MB of RAM, Windows 98/SE maxes out at 1GB? I think?

I want some solid reboots from that era.

Microshit need to bring Hellbender in to the new era. That game was fucken solid. Same with Terminal Velocity, Fury 3, etc.

>>6014684
https://youtu.be/1-w1NziFoLg
Sounds like DX9 working in 98

>>6015317
>https://youtu.be/1-w1NziFoLg [Embed]
>Sounds like DX9 working in 98

My mistake. DX9c does work on Windows 98. This nGlide solution using the FX 5500 sounds like a good idea.

only game i've yet to get running with wine is an asheron's call emulator. stop using windoze.

>>6006480
>It's a bit of a wonky port
Just like what that fat fuck and the rest of Valve ever made save for HL1, the Portal games, and Left4Dead 2.

>>6010590
this list of parts is fantastic for hunting yourself down what you need:
https://msfn.org/board/topic/107001-compatible-hardware-with-windows-9x/

>>6003460
i feel you, ms hellbender won't run easily on any system i have wired up right now

i want my 1996 memories dammit

did anyone actually use a joystick for playing games like Mechwarrior?
I have a second hand Sidewinder 3D pro myself, but trying to aim accurately feels even worse than just using keyboard keys.

>>6003460
Every old windows game I've bought on gog has been shit on Windows 10. I am pissed off at Microsoft mostly. The compatibility modes it offers are dogshit. Patches and guesswork to get things scaled properly, and the games still run like crap because of weird issues with multiple processors you also have to disable

>>6018215
Yeah I had that same experience as a kid. Joystick made me worse. Joystick is only good for flight sims

>>6018215
Keyboard strictly for Mechwarrior.
I pretty much saved joysticks for flight simulators.

>>6018254
>>6018256
okay, glad its not just my stick then, will save it for Fury3/Hellbender

>>6018215
I always wanted a sidewinder. Realizing now that I'll never own one because it would just be silly brings me despair.

>>6018215
I played a bit of Heavy Gear with a Logitech wingman extreme today
Aiming is probably a bit harder, but in return you get a real throttle that the game can use

Looks like the right thread to ask, anyone know where to get the latest romset for PCem?

>>6019171
being a big mechwarrior fan im shocked I never tried that series, quick peek on youtube certainly looks comfy

>>6019171
If you had a force feedback joystick like the Microsoft Sidewinder FF Pro, you'd be getting effects since the game supports force feedback joysticks.

>>6003528
> there is still no Tiberian Sun support
and that's a good thing.
TS is the 2nd worst of the old C&C games, the worst game being the Multiplayer Online-only Battle Royale game spin-off of C&C1, C&C Sole Survivor.

>>6004137
3.1 was kinda shit because there was honestly no real reason to use it most of the time except for business.
for games you needed to load from DOS anyway most of the time.
I remember 3.1 being needed for the Warcraft 2 Level Editor, but that's about it.

>>6019303
it's cool
I'm also gonna check out Shattered Steel, just need to "borrow" it from our russian friends

compatibility trouble shooter

try recommended settings

TRY THIS https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Glossary:Windowed#D3DWindower

>>6019336
played the Gog version a good while back, its fun but I remember the mission objectives get hard fast

Is this okay for Dosbox to load some of the cpu cores for like 80%?

Any Rendition Vererite based source port won't work. Generally speaking, it was a small era, and mostly stuff on it would either be on DOS or OpenGL. But if you are specific enough to want to play the Vererite based version, you cannot.

>>6019590
if you're emulating a heavy game at maxed out cycles it can take a toll on your cpu

>>6019235
https://github.com/BaRRaKudaRain/PCem-ROMs

>>6014632
on a core 2 duo laptop you could just dualboot windows 98 lmao

>>6003460
98 is easy to VM through wine
i agree that there are a few great win95 games you have to have a fat32 OS to run
risk ultimate conquer the world
emperor of the fading suns
off top of my head

>>6003512
What happened is shitty winblowz, thats why I switched to Linux.
>>6004137
Minesweeper, solitare, and downhill skiing, no thanks.
>>6005349
Their word was "monopoly."
>>6005415
wares pup detected, don't copy that floppy.

>>6003465
if PCem ends up working for emperor of the fading suns
you gonna get yo dick suck

>>6018215
kek yeah it's actually more difficult and yeah i did it for awhile think by MW4 the open control schemes made it actually functional compared with just kb

>>6019810
thanks a lot, anon

My whole life I never knew If I even really existed. But I do. And people are starting to notice.

>>6019846
and where would i get drivers for pci-e?

>>6014632
Yes, maybe not Pentium 160/voodoo 2, but for 486 for sure. My old dual core manages Pentium 90/voodoo 1 at nearly 100% speed.

quick question to the pcem anons: will v15 run under windows 2000 sp4?

>>6018215
>>6018254
>>6019924
I was just thinking Mechwarrior 2 Mercs featured an "starter control scheme" in the control menu, which activates a secret auto aim (which functions when selecting a target and aim approximately near them) and shockingly causes a lot of the weapons with buggy hit detection (especially autocannons) to hit with every shot!

Anyway teaming that up with a joystick could be a really comfy way to play, someone give it a try!

>>6021472
1 and 2 are good games, but I always felt the peak of the franchise was 3.

>>6018215

Fuck yeah I did. It was awesome.

Also, I'm a weirdo. I was hoplessly addicted to Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, and I used the sidewinder for movement and force powers, and the mouse for look and fire 1 & 2. I was pretty fast with it.

>>6021475
FREEBIRTH SCUM DETECTED

>>6003465
Yeah, was about to say. There's a Simpsons game called Virtual Springfield which won't run in DOSBox because it's a Windows game, but also won't run properly in a Windows after 95. It runs perfectly though in PCem.
https://pcem-emulator.co.uk/

QEMU, Wine32, and >>6003465

>>6005809
>but Win16 support was completely broken under XP.
Wrong. It's only broken in the 64-bit versions, due to hardware issues.
32-bit Windows 10 can run Windows 2.0 programs without a hitch.

>>6022193
windows 2.0 couldn't run windows 2.0 programs without a hitch

>>6006569
>>6006752
Windows 98 SE isn’t that unstable unless you go batshit with installing trash and glitchy drivers. The only Win9x that truly deserves its reputation for instability is Windows 95 (ME being unstable is a meme due to some terrible bugs in unpatched new system utilities).

>>6023047
>>6006752
>>6006569
Avoid installing Internet Explorer 4 or above, and you prevent most of the issues.

>>6023185
b-but Windows 98 comes with IE 4.01 installed

and SE comes with IE 5.0

are you suggesting they are doomed from the start?