/vr/ - Retro Games

3 and 4 were bad
5 was good but that's because it rips off 2 so heavily
honestly the series should've just ended with 2, they were never going to top it anyway

>>6002002
Is Suikoden II really THAT good that everyone feels the need to hype it up as the second coming of christ? It's frequently put in the discussion with EarthBound, Chrono Trigger & Final Fantasy VI for best RPG ever now

>>6002002
why? the last suikoden was so bad, no one cared.
>>6002020
3 had sexy chris and a pretty good manga version. also lucc was best antag. dindu nuffin!

>>6002029
Honestly meh it's like chrono cross with 60 recruitable characters of which each have 2 lines of dialogue in total. It has nice music and villains I guess but the 2D art is pretty lackluster, worse than most late era SNES games.

>>6002002
not very. given current trends, it would come back as a gacha or some shit like that. best to die an honorable death.

>>6002029
>political story
>108 recruitable characters
>base building
>cool, fast paced battles with a 6 man party
>lots of cameos from the previous game
It's not hard understanding the appeal, just from sheer contrast from the popular Square games, but IMO it's far from clear cut what game is even the best in the series.

I'd only want another one if it continued the story from the first 3 games and the original creator came back, but that's never happening.

>>6002254
>luca
one of the most overrated villain

>>6002020
2 is overrated and goes to shit after Luca.

>>6002056
>Honestly meh it's like chrono cross with 60 recruitable characters of which each have 2 lines of dialogue in total.

That's kind of the point though. It was never about getting 108 characters with arcs and stories. It was about 108 weirdos who came together for a greater goal. Most of them are just regular people with varying degrees of social standing. It's all based on pick related and if you sit down and read it you will be shocked to see how often characters are just dropped and "spoken no more of."

>>6002002
>>6002029
Suikoden should've died after the first one. II is as overrated as xenogears and nobody beside shills from this board remember it.

>>6002331
Must explain the remaster then

>>6002029
It's a great contrarian pick.
Like how FFVI got a shot in popularity in response to VII's rabid popularity, Suikoden II is like a step beyond VI in its aspect of "cred".
It's a perfectly serviceable JRPG with some great ideas, but I don't think it's really outstanding in any regard, they always flub up an aspect to it.
For example they even ruined the morose ending, which could have been legendary, by implementing a secret ultra-happy. It's like if in FFVII you get to revive Aeris if you get 100% completion by beating Ruby and Emerald weapon.

It's a great contrarian pick.
Like how FFVI got a shot in popularity in response to VII's rabid popularity, Suikoden II is like a step beyond VI in its aspect of "cred".
It's a perfectly serviceable JRPG with some great ideas, but I don't think it's really outstanding in any regard, they always flub up an aspect to it.
For example they even ruined the morose ending, which could have been legendary, by implementing an extra secret ultra-happy ending. It's like if in FFVII you get to revive Aeris if you get 100% completion by beating Ruby and Emerald weapon.

>>6002521
I'd probably be less pissy about the game if they didn't pussy out of the ending. Jowy was kind of a shit villain but if it ended with him and the hero actually fighting and dying? That'd have at least some weight. Instead we get happy friendventures

>>6002529
I think Jowy die if MC attack him in the duel instead of defending against his attack.

>>6002029
It had good story, visuals and so so gameplay. So like every title you listed. Just that it was in the late 90's and not early 90's where it belonged more in the 16 bit JRPGs. Hence the hyping up maybe becasue it was a bit overshadowed.

>>6002521
they haven't ruined anything, suikoden 1 also had the revive option. They just did their thing

>>6002775
Well yes the option for the bad ending is still there but the fact that it's called the BAD ending really kind of paints a negative stigma around it.

>>6002912
>suikoden 1 also had the revive option.
The fist game still ends with Tyr permanently stuck bearing the Soul Eater rune. The emotional core of 1 was never Gremio's death, though that was an important distinction, but Tyr still loses his father, he loses Ted, he can't be around people or his friends out of fear of devouring them and will outlive them all. Him getting his butler mom back doesn't undo any emotion because it's a small reward and a brief happiness that will quickly end in tragedy again.

The day is saved but the hero still pays his price.

People sure do like to establish that they aren’t blinded by this “overrated” game, huh? Jeez. The series, especially on PSX, are a delight for the RPG fan even if the games are a bit easy. Suikoden I has some of my favourite music and atmosphere - https://youtu.be/bn33fFKISls , for example, is a dying country in all of its music tracks, and characters like Mathui and Shu make the plots into real stories and the game generally avoids magical bullshit .. usually.

>>6002963
I think I just find myself enjoying the brevity of part one a lot more these days. 2 has some nice QOL improvements but 1 was built around it's lack of them fairly nicely. You never really needed a dash because areas were smaller. You didn't need 3 rune slots per person because enemies were built with 1 in mind.

The story is shorter but there's almost NO filler. I kind of feel like Neclord was a bit unneeded even in part one but he at least gave Viktor some drama and was aligned with the actual villain. But in two he was just completely tacked on. And this wasn't even the only part were 2 just drops its pacing. The school was grating and we really didn't need to deal with that Sindar ruins shit. I mean I know the Sindar are a part of the series lore and shit but fucking hell. You're telling me we can't find an easier way to recruit a couple of crappy inn proprietors? That's who you want to give like an HOUR of screen time to game?

The only critique I have for 1 is the constant shoving of shitty characters into my party. Fuck off Flik and Viktor and take your garbage S range with you.

2 was OK but drastically petered out after Luca. They obviously tried going for the deserted capital theme again but utterly failed. Also the simplistic art was total crap compared to the first one's.

>>6002918
is gremio a man or woman?

How did they resurrect Gremio? I thought the soul eater leveled up by eating the souls of people close to the wielder.

Then again, he does seem to be quite soulless after the resurrection.

>>6002029
It’s a very good game with a unique premise and gorgeous 2d graphics. I like it a lot but it’s rarity and initial flying under the radar have definitely given it an aura of being some lost masterpiece. It’s definitely worth playing though and absolutely worth a shout for the top 10 jrpgs of the decade, beyond that it comes down to personal preference though.
>>6002331
II literally improves on I in every single possible way.

>>6003170
Yeah, they got carried away with mandatory members. It wouldn't bother me as much if the game wasn't centered so much around the joy of using all these wacky characters and their Unites, some of which become inaccessible toward endgame because you just don't have enough free slots left. Most other JRPGs just have the essential character appear along with the party during dialogue/cutscenes.

>>6003365
Gate Rune > Soul Eater

I dunno.

>>6003365
The power of the 108 stars being gathered allowed it as a one time deal. He was never eaten by Soul Eater.

>>6003842
Every time someone close to Tir dies the Soul Eater rune unlocks a new attack, as well as increasing the number of spirits appearing in the animations. Grimeo's eaten soul gives you the Black Shadow spell.

>>6002020
3 was honestly a very good game. Easily as good as 1. Comparing it to 2 is unfair.
>>6002029
Suikoden 2 is easily as good as FF6

>>6002284
>goes to shit after Luca
Enjoyed it but this is true

Did Luca really rape Pilika's 5 year old cunny lads? It's heavily hinted at and would coincide with what happened to his mother.

So we all agree that Luca is a 4/10 villain used about as well as you could have hoped for right?
Because he has zero personality traits outside of "I want to murder everything" but he's played up to be the biggest, baddest motherfucker possible and requiring a 4 stage boss fight to take him down was really cool.

>>6003227
I thought Gremio was a man.
The art was really weird in this game though. There were a number of characters who looked unambiguously of one gender but ended up being the other.

>>6002029
for 5 years suikoden 2 sold for 300 dollars on ebay. FF has zero installmnents that appreciated as per gamestops listings. even by gamestops listing it was a $60 game (all ps1 titles sold at $50 srp when brand new)

its better than disgaea and FF7 combined and lesser turnbased fans need not apply. you would get lost in the mini games alone and fail to complete the special golden swan arc in the iron chef minigame. yes this was a ps1 game with a iron chef mini game where you make restoration items which are different food dishes and the judges were people you recruited with different preferences who would judge your dish vs your competitor

faggots playing FF7 at the same point in history were doing faggy chocobo racing

I hope at least in a Suikoden Collection for Switch so it's portable.

I always hoped for the Psp collection of 1 and 2 to be released in the west.

I am more mad by the fact that i missed a lot of stuff by playing the bugged american version

>>6004862
OH SHIT! THEY HAD EPIC CRAFTING!? I LOVE CRAFTING!? OMG! AND LESS COPIES MADE FOR A LESS POPULAR GAME SO THEY COULD CHARGE HIGHER PRICES???? OMG THAT JUST MAKES THE GAME SO MUCH MORE FUN! AND OH MAN IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO LIKE THIS GAME, WE HAVE TO TELL EVERYBODY THIS IS BETTER THAN MORE POPULAR GAMES LIKE FINAL FANTASY! THIS GAME IS THE BEST EVER! BEST EVER! AND I PROUDLY BASE MY LIFE AND SELF ESTEEM AROUND JUST HOW DAMN GOOD THIS GAME IS!

>>6004624
I know you're used to jacking off that villain tier list but Luca is the best villain the series has seen and it's all for one very important thing.

PRESENTATION!

Luca is a shallow character. He's defined by his lust for violence. That's all there is to him really. But he is powerful. He is a constant threat. The hero has a personal stake and grudge against him. A villain doesn't always have to be a dark reflection of the hero or some other such nonsense with complex motivations where he's the hero of his own story. That shit is inane. Whomever teaches people this should be drug out into the street. He's just a tyrannical madman but he fucking sells it. You know why Luca is great? Because he's fucking honest. He doesn't ask for pity. He doesn't cry for sympathy. He revels in carnage and he must be stopped.
He was built up as the ultimate enemy, every where he went, every time you met there was blood. And his final send off was glorious.

THAT, is what makes a great, memorable, charismatic villain. It's not complexity. Complexity doesn't always hold to scrutiny. He's not pitiable, pity only stretches so far and no amount of MUH DESTINY or MUH REASONS will make you anything but a monster. Reasons are not excuses and Luca is one of the few villains who doesn't bother with pretending he's anything else.

Jowy's a fag.

>>6002002
>How salty are yall that we'll never see another one?
Incredibly. Unfortunately if it did ever come back it would 100% be in the form of a soul crushing gacha.

>>6002020
>3 and 4 were bad
3 was great when you were viewing events from different perspectives and trying to solve the mystery, it turns to shit when the viewpoints converge. Thomas chapters were peak comfy. 4 is pretty bad, though I like the first person view and NG+ letting you change the lead character when exploring.

>5 was good but that's because it rips off 2 so heavily
5's horrendous recruitment requirements, that even if you follow a step by step guide that saps all the fun out of the game are still excrutiating to complete, really damage the game. Also Lucretia is fucking annoying and the main character is basically a side character.

>>6002284
>goes to shit
I'd say it goes from great to good, but I agree that momentum takes a slap to the face. I think that's partly the fault of the translation not properly showing the Jowy/Luca parallels and in consequence not explaining why they need to keep fighting.

>>6003842
>>6004192
Gremio's soul is shown very clearly to be inside the soul eater during the cutscene near the end of the game when the rune rejects Windy. This is probably what allows Gremio to travel with Tir once revived, since the Soul Eater eats the souls of anyone who gets too close to its bearer, because Gremio's soul is already inside the rune he's safe.

>>6004948
Sometimes a villain who's just pure fucking evil is refreshing. I definitely don't want every villain to be like that, and he's not in my villain pantheon, but he's a good one. I think he actually has a backstory where he witnessed his mother getting raped to death or something, but frankly I don't think it matters, the idea of an unadulterated psychopath somehow coming into that much power in a fairly civilized period of history is interesting enough.

>>6002002
>salty
Larping zoomer go back to v

>>6004906
>t. grew up in a 3rd world country where FF were the only JRPGs available.

>>6002039
4 was so bad people didn't give 5 a chance.

>>6005374
I think the real shame is that people didn't give Tactics a chance because it was really good.

>>6005794
I liked the first half, but in the second half the constant and increasingly complex tile management combined with the slow animations/UI really drained me. Also the cuckoldry plot infuriated me.

Seneca is love though.

>It's been 13 years since Suikoden V came out.

>>6005794
I thought it was fairly good. Good mission board, story, and OST.
Permadeath for characters was bullshit.

>>6005807
>Also the cuckoldry plot infuriated me.

The one where some Thot runs off with some fag because another asshole wasn't dicking her? I really don't see why THAT should bother you. None of the people in that triangle were at all likable.

Seneca is best girl forever. Andarc really lucked out. Eventually. When he stopped being a dumb dumb.

Also
>>6006140
>Permadeath for characters was bullshit.

It's based on the luck stat, so if you boost that up then there's a good chance you won't get permadeath. Also don't die. Seriously.

>>6006262
Or just use story related characters that can't die.

>>6006375
I like the story characters but that's not fun.

>>6006107
Konami sudoku'ed most its franchise.

Anyone played Exit Fate?
It's a freeware Suikoden.

>>6006939
I refuse to play it until someone replaces the character portraits with ones that don't make every character look like they have down syndrome.

>>6002029
It really isn't. Other games have done the same gimmick a million times better. Looking at you Pokemon.

>>6006951
>Looking at you Pokemon.

Faggot

>>6006412
They're coming back around now that they're cracking down on pachinko gambling.

>>6006954
Even if you hate it it still objectively handled it better.

>>6006958
No. It didn't. Pokemon has all the personality of a rock. There are no CHARACTERS in Pokemon. Even the human rivals are all the same flavor of HEY BRAH, YOU LOVE POKEMON TOO!?

>>6006961
Okay fine. Valkyria Chronicles did it better.

>>6006973
>Valkyria Chronicles
Absolutely no. A big pile of anime cliches. Just read the goddamn Water Margin.

>>6006956
konami will double-down on mobile games and remasters of their older titles.

>>6002039
My nigga

>>6006990

>>6006949
I admit those faces are awful.
But the gameplay is good.
All characters can battle both RPG and Strategy.
>>6007073
Noice.

>>6007073
Maybe she can climb ladders now

Post 'em.

>>6006412
Pachinko not sudoku

>>6007359
Fuck yes, Tengaar was an awesome party member.

>>6007364
Her magic was nearly on par with luc and crowley/mazus, but she also had double the health and defense, was long range, did reasonable damage and in S2 had an above average crit rate. She's also a literal sex toy, and red > blue.

>>6007359
It's a sausage party but every one of them has a reason to be there, I think.
Tir being so talkative kind of creeps me out.

>>6008030
>Tir being so talkative kind of creeps me out.
The second Golden Sun was like that.

>>6008061
>Golden Sun

Nobody fucking cares

>>6008071
You seem to care an unexpected and surprising amount.

>>6008061
Oh yeah, and he was kind of jerk, too.

I fill my party with the most bangable characters

Stone castle in the middle of water>>>>Some gay town.

>>6005213
>mfw no Arshtat mommyfu

>>6008980
The Liangshan heroes (Water Margin) made their base on an island in a lake.

>>6008980
The original design was a little more complex, also the adjoining towers popping out of nowhere when your castle levels up despite being made of natural rock was unexplained.

>>6002002
I cry every night

>>6005213
>graphics keep getting worse

>now entering /vr/-town
https://youtu.be/a_VUEjvGt2o

This thread is now about Suikoden’s best series trait, characters growing up and reappearing throughout time.

>>6013078
>We never got to see milf Tengaar.
feelsbadman

>>6013078

>>6013078

>>6013078
>characters growing up

>>6013891
Kasumi filled out nicely.

Sierra is mandatory

>>6014291
After Suikogaiden, Sierra became my only video game waifu. I’m not proud to say this either, but she is indeed necessary. Nash is cool too

>>6013078
Kind of the opposite but...

>>6014869
I wouldn't really call that opposite. Sure Georgimus is older in 2 than he is in 5 but it's a none linear timeline and the ultimate point is that we see characters at different points in their lives at significantly different ages.

>>6014869
>>6014917
He's in the Japanese Suikoden 1 manual as well, standing next to Sonya's mother.

>>6008030
I wanted to use McDohl a lot more, but the work necessary to get him in the party after it's disbanded is just...jesus.

>>6002002
With all the classic series being revived as gacha games these days (Arc the Lad R, Imperial SaGa, Wild Arms Million Memories, etc) I'm surprised Suikoden, a game with as many characters as there are Pokemon, never got one.
I'm not defending gacha and mobile gaming, but if it brings more attention to the series, I'm all for it (updated artwork for neglected characters would be nice too, I guess).

>>6002254
Kek hot as fuck

>>6002002
>How salty
i am onions tea flavored

>never played any of suikoden games in his life
should i play the first one, and in order? tips? advice?

>>6016240
Yes, play them in order and always export your save to the next game.

The Luca hate is strong, pretty good that it gave motivation to defaat a generically evil for evil's sake villain. I chose Kasumi.

I saw 2 at a game store for $30 I think. Is it good?

>>6005213
>no Tactics

Suikoden Tactics is literally a sequel to Suikoden IV, without it all you have is a mediocre game with an incomplete story.
Playing it actually improves your IV experience.

Is that Jotaro?

>>6014052
>>6013891
>>6013818
>>6013078

Not enough 108 character orgy doujins.

>>6002002
Which one did you pick, /vr/? For me, it's Kasumi.

>>6019307
Yeah, Kasumi.
Can't leave my bro McDohl hanging like that.

>>6019307
>hot tomboy with dark hair
>basic blond bitch
Such a hard choice

>>6002002
very